Browse content similar to 04/03/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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What happens in America this year affects us all. | :00:00. | :00:07. | |
This week has brought the American presidential election | :00:08. | :00:09. | |
Winners, losers, insults and dropouts. | :00:10. | :00:14. | |
And it's Donald Trump who's making all the weather. | :00:15. | :00:17. | |
But is his claim that his wealth makes him Mr Clean a grubby lie? | :00:18. | :00:28. | |
It's a question John Sweeney has been asking for some time. | :00:29. | :00:31. | |
You stayed in bed, if I may say so, with Felix Sater | :00:32. | :00:34. | |
Again, John, maybe you are sick, but when | :00:35. | :00:39. | |
you have a signed contract, you can't in this country | :00:40. | :00:42. | |
Emily goes to Trump heartland to find out how his supporters | :00:43. | :00:49. | |
expect him to change American foreign policy. | :00:50. | :00:51. | |
We are the best country in the world, that's for sure. | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
But I think we can't take care of everybody. | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
We'll be exploring whether not just America but the West as a whole | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
is turning in on itself - and, if so, how does that impact | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
And in this week's Artsnight, neurosurgeon Henry Marsh talks | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
to author Karl Ove Knausgard about his incredibly honest | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
When you were writing it, my impression is it was almost | :01:13. | :01:20. | |
an act of sort of suicidal catharsis, so to speak. | :01:21. | :01:23. | |
Were you aware of the fact it might actually struck a chord | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
It's the end of a seismic week for the Republicans. | :01:28. | :01:42. | |
Donald Trump now looks the most likely contender to be the party's | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
candidate for the next President of the United States. | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
Among his big boasts - some cruder than others - | :01:50. | :01:51. | |
is that he is a modern day Midas, worth billions, and that his wealth | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
means that he can't be bought and sold. | :01:56. | :01:59. | |
And that puts him above the political fray. | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
Tonight, Newsnight tells the other side of the story - | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
the evidence which not only casts doubt on Trump's fabulous wealth | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
claims but also reveals his history of business relationships | :02:09. | :02:11. | |
with figures connected to organised crime. | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
Donald Trump says he's worth $11 billion. | :02:15. | :02:27. | |
And I am totally self-funding my campaign, so I don't have to take | :02:28. | :02:43. | |
donors and special interest people and lobbyists. | :02:44. | :02:46. | |
On how he got so rich, Trump has in the past boasted | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
The same cannot be said of some of the people he did business with. | :02:53. | :03:04. | |
Trump Plaza, Atlantic City, New Jersey. | :03:05. | :03:07. | |
The site of Donald Trump's foray into the casino business. | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
It ended up in a heap of broken dreams. | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
Four of his gambling businesses went bust. | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
Back in 1980, when Trump launched his first casino here, | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
some of his business partners worked for the mafia. | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
The picture in New York was no better. | :03:31. | :03:39. | |
Here lies Fat Tony Salerno, once one of the most feared men | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
He was the boss of the Genovese crime family, and it just so happens | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
the man from whom Donald Trump bought his concrete. | :03:49. | :03:58. | |
Fat Tony and other mobsters had a lock on New York concrete. | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
While most builders use steel and some concrete, | :04:02. | :04:03. | |
Trump built the tallest concrete building in New York. | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
Fat Tony Salerno was fat, and he was the head | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
It was the most powerful crime family in the city at the time. | :04:12. | :04:19. | |
And Fat Tony didn't just supply concrete to Donald Trump - | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
the two men also shared a lawyer, Roy Cohn. | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
The evidence is that Fat Tony Salerno met | :04:28. | :04:29. | |
with Donald Trump in Roy Cohn's office, which makes | :04:30. | :04:32. | |
Not only did I have sources telling me that at the time, | :04:33. | :04:39. | |
but when you consider that he is building the largest | :04:40. | :04:41. | |
concrete structure of its time, and the concrete industry | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
is controlled by Fat Tony Salerno, it makes all the sense in the world. | :04:47. | :04:56. | |
In the early 90s, Trump was almost a billion dollars in the red. | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
By 2004, he had recovered and got into reality TV. | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
In 1991, in this bar, Felix Sater had a row with another | :05:06. | :05:17. | |
Sater snapped the stem of a margarita glass and stabbed | :05:18. | :05:24. | |
Out of jail, he took part in a $40 million Stock Market fraud, | :05:25. | :05:41. | |
boosting shares and then selling them at a profit. | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
Then Sater made a deal with the FBI, informing of his fellow | :05:45. | :05:51. | |
Sater's conviction was publicised, but later in return for him | :05:52. | :05:58. | |
co-operating with the Feds, it was sealed. | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
Sater and Trump got into business together in the early 2000s, | :06:04. | :06:06. | |
when Sater was an executive at Bayrock. | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
This is one of the three developments that Donald | :06:13. | :06:15. | |
From Trump Soho, the name, you would have thought that Trump | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
was the money behind this project. | :06:20. | :06:21. | |
As well as Trump Soho, there were two other | :06:22. | :06:28. | |
Trump Fort Lauderdale in Florida, and Trump Camelback in Arizona. | :06:29. | :06:36. | |
When property prices began to slide, the Trump Bayrock projects | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
Newsnight understands investors lost at least $10 million | :06:41. | :06:47. | |
I checked out the location in Fort Lauderdale. | :06:48. | :06:55. | |
It was an absolute great location, and I thought with the Trump | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
organisation behind it and Mr Trump putting his name on the line, | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
I thought it would be very successful. | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
In 2013, I challenged Trump about his relationship with Felix | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
Why didn't you go to Felix Sater and say you are connected | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
First of all, we were not the developer there, | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
Excuse me, but I don't know, you're telling me things | :07:21. | :07:29. | |
You're telling me about Felix Sater, I know who he is, I know of him | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
You stayed in bed, if I may say so, with Felix Sater, and he was | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
Again, John, maybe you're thick, but when you have a signed contract | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
you can't in this country just break it. | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
Sometimes we will sign a deal and the partner isn't as good | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
By the way, John, I hate to do this, but I do have that big | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
group of people waiting, so I have to go. | :07:59. | :08:00. | |
Newsnight has obtained one of the key Trump Bayrock contracts, | :08:01. | :08:08. | |
which has only recently been unsealed by the courts. | :08:09. | :08:10. | |
And what Trump told me wasn't true. | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
It is what is known as a bad boy clause. | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
It states that Bayrock shall do nothing to bring disrepute | :08:19. | :08:20. | |
to or in any manner impair or damage the Trump brand. | :08:21. | :08:28. | |
The critical question is before that date, did Trump know | :08:29. | :08:41. | |
Here is some evidence Trump could have found when they went | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
Guilty plea was publicly announces all over the world in a press | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
release put out by the United States attorney's office in New York, | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
and co-authored by the FBI field office. | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
The press release went all over the world. | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
It was published even in the Guardian, I think | :09:02. | :09:03. | |
it was published in Australia, I am not sure. | :09:04. | :09:05. | |
It was published in the New York Daily News. | :09:06. | :09:07. | |
There was issued that same day an indictment | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
against his co-conspirators and that indictment identified Felix Sater | :09:12. | :09:14. | |
by name, as one of the co-conspirators. | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
A third pointer in 2006 that might have alerted Trump to Sater's past | :09:19. | :09:29. | |
was a lawsuit, alleging that he made a death threat against | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
Ernie Mendez has bought into Trump Camel back in Arizona, | :09:35. | :09:43. | |
he found out about Sater's past and then he said he got | :09:44. | :09:45. | |
The case was later settled, but in the lawsuit, Mendez said | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
Sater threatened to have a man electrically shock Mr Mendez's | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
testicles, cut off his legs and leave Mr Mendez dead | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
Sater's lawyer says this claim was an outright fabrication. | :10:01. | :10:11. | |
Fred Oberlander has acted for clients suing Bayrock. | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
You would have to be deaf, dumb and blind in my opinion. | :10:16. | :10:18. | |
The ability of someone like Donald Trump to know | :10:19. | :10:21. | |
whom he was doing business and to whom he was selling | :10:22. | :10:24. | |
the right to use his name, would certainly include | :10:25. | :10:27. | |
finding the press release in the Congressional record where it | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
Trump has said he doesn't know about Sater's past | :10:32. | :10:39. | |
We do as much of a background check as we can on the principles. | :10:40. | :10:45. | |
This is tape number one of the video tape, the position of | :10:46. | :10:52. | |
Six months after my interview, he had this to say about Sater. | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
How many times have you conversed with Mr Sater? | :10:57. | :10:58. | |
If he were sitting in the room right now, I wouldn't know | :10:59. | :11:10. | |
Astonishingly, that was three years after Sater had an office | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
in Trump Tower, a Trump e-mail, and a business card listing him | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
Felix Sater now sees himself as a reformed character. | :11:20. | :11:30. | |
My wife says living with me is like reading next | :11:31. | :11:37. | |
Oberlander and Learner say that Sater didn't reveal his convictions | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
to the banks, and so the argument goes, the Trump Bayrock deals | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
His name is still on Trump Soho, which is a Bayrock project, | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
and he is still drawing projects off of that edifice built on fraud. | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
He has, in my opinion, an ethical obligation and a minimum | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
to disassociate himself from Trump Soho, because that | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
Sater's lawyer told Newsnight his client will not comment on either | :12:08. | :12:18. | |
Trump or Bayrock, adding that Sater is not now, | :12:19. | :12:21. | |
So what about Trump's boast that he is 100% clean? | :12:22. | :12:32. | |
Can anyone who did business with the likes of Fat Tony Salerno | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
Donald Trump cannot wipe clean his brushes with the mob. | :12:38. | :12:48. | |
Just last night, the remaining Republican hopefuls clashed in some | :12:49. | :12:51. | |
of the most bitter exchanges of the campaign so far. | :12:52. | :12:54. | |
But can Trump still be stopped, or is his nomination | :12:55. | :12:56. | |
as the Republican presidential candidate now all but inevitable? | :12:57. | :12:59. | |
Joining me from Washington is the BBC's North America editor, | :13:00. | :13:02. | |
How damaging have the recent attacks by the Republican establishment | :13:03. | :13:16. | |
been? The attacks have certainly been full force. They have really | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
gone for him. Mitt Romney, who was the Republican candidate four years | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
ago, was calling him a phoney and a fraud and was kind of absolutely | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
thick tube rooted in his attacks on Donald Trump. There are two big | :13:30. | :13:36. | |
battles coming up, Ohio and Florida on March the 15th, where it is | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
winner takes all. If Donald Trump wins that number of delegates, he is | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
home and dry. It is a last ditch effort by the Republican | :13:46. | :13:48. | |
establishment to do him down. Having said that, I think it is perfectly | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
possible that Trump supporters will say, the establishment hate him, | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
good, I like him even more. I don't think it might do him much damage. | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
Tell me what you think about the level of debate and some of the | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
coarseness of it. It has been nothing short of gobsmacking, kind | :14:07. | :14:13. | |
of eye watering, frankly. Last night, it was another Republican | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
debate. Last week, Marco Rubio had said, Donald Trump for a guy who is | :14:18. | :14:23. | |
six foot two is rather small hands, and you know what they say about | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
people with small towns... You can't trust them. Donald Trump goes on to | :14:29. | :14:34. | |
the debate stage last night and, in front of a national televised | :14:35. | :14:37. | |
audience says, he says I've got small hands and a small something | :14:38. | :14:43. | |
else. I can tell you, I don't have a sprog -- I don't have a problem | :14:44. | :14:46. | |
there. In other words, he was doing jokes about his penis on national | :14:47. | :14:53. | |
television. Socratic debate, it wasn't. | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
Senior Republicans are furiously trying to shut down the Donald Trump | :15:00. | :15:02. | |
show as the field of candidates narrows. | :15:03. | :15:04. | |
Republican National Security leaders have united in their condemnation | :15:05. | :15:06. | |
In an open letter, they write of his swings from isolationism | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
to military adventurism in the space of a sentence, | :15:11. | :15:12. | |
and warn his ideas are inconsistent and unmoored in principle. | :15:13. | :15:14. | |
So what do they make of him in West Virginia - | :15:15. | :15:17. | |
a state that has historically contributed more to the US military | :15:18. | :15:19. | |
And where Donald Trump finds the highest level of support | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
Emily went to the Mountain State to find out. | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
Just 90 minutes west of Interstate 495, otherwise known | :15:29. | :15:30. | |
as the Washington Beltway, you find this, West Virginia - | :15:31. | :15:32. | |
another world, a place where they spit at the very mention | :15:33. | :15:35. | |
It takes government regulation of its heavy industries almost | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
personally and their demise has left a hole. | :15:41. | :15:48. | |
The state of West Virginia is bucking the economic | :15:49. | :15:50. | |
Across America, we are seeing unemployment levels falling. | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
But it's also a place where you find a spirited streak of independence. | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
The abolitionist John Brown rose up here. | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
The state motto favours the freethinking mountaineer. | :16:06. | :16:08. | |
You can't help sensing a constant air of self defence. | :16:09. | :16:10. | |
This West Virginia town of Harpers Ferry lies | :16:11. | :16:13. | |
at the confluence of some of the fiercest fighting | :16:14. | :16:15. | |
That legacy of battle lies firmly within the state. | :16:16. | :16:24. | |
West Virginia historically has made the highest contribution | :16:25. | :16:26. | |
to the American military of anywhere else in America. | :16:27. | :16:32. | |
No coincidence perhaps that this is the state | :16:33. | :16:34. | |
We head here, to Romney, to find out. | :16:35. | :16:43. | |
Romney is not a name Donald Trump much warms to nowadays | :16:44. | :16:45. | |
but we want to understand if its people warm to Trump and, | :16:46. | :16:48. | |
He has promised to make America great again. | :16:49. | :16:58. | |
In Doodles Bar, I ask Frank, a Vietnam veteran who has made | :16:59. | :17:01. | |
West Virginia his home, what he makes of it. | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
It seems we lost a sense of our inner pride, what made us | :17:07. | :17:09. | |
And it seems everybody just wants a free ride. | :17:10. | :17:16. | |
Hatchet puts it yet more unflinchingly. | :17:17. | :17:19. | |
Someone like a Ronald Reagan, even though he was like a movie star | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
when he got in, but he had balls and he stood up to everybody. | :17:24. | :17:30. | |
Who is your Ronald Reagan this time round? | :17:31. | :17:34. | |
Donald Trump thinks he is but I don't think he is. | :17:35. | :17:37. | |
Many forget they hated Reagan when he started out but, | :17:38. | :17:40. | |
rightly or wrongly, he's come to be seen as the president who got things | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
right, prioritised defence spending without overwhelming loss of life. | :17:46. | :17:47. | |
He kept his wars cold, in other words. | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
Over a game of pool, I begin to understand the dilemma | :17:53. | :17:54. | |
They want to see America as unvanquishable, a proud, | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
resilient nation, but they are in no doubt that war is too costly in both | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
I think that, really, we are the best country | :18:04. | :18:14. | |
But I think we can't take care of everybody. | :18:15. | :18:29. | |
Trump has always made much of his affection for veterans, | :18:30. | :18:31. | |
but it's hard to know how he'd interact on the world stage - | :18:32. | :18:34. | |
Would he continue the retrenchment started by Obama or does | :18:35. | :18:37. | |
making America great again involve military might? | :18:38. | :18:44. | |
We have three trains of thought in competition. | :18:45. | :18:46. | |
going back to that traditional American leadership | :18:47. | :18:48. | |
or a neo-isolationism pulling us back from the world even more, | :18:49. | :18:50. | |
or kind of lashing out, as Donald Trump articulates it, | :18:51. | :18:53. | |
where we just go after problems that bother us because we've | :18:54. | :18:55. | |
The question for America fundamentally is whether Trump | :18:56. | :19:05. | |
means what he says - whether he believes his wall, | :19:06. | :19:08. | |
that concrete embodiment of xenophobia, will actually be | :19:09. | :19:11. | |
built to keep Mexicans out or whether, as Vanity Fair puts it, | :19:12. | :19:14. | |
his love of saying the outrageous almost now borders | :19:15. | :19:16. | |
What he would really do as President? | :19:17. | :19:23. | |
To go and round up 11 million people and deport them would create such | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
a police presence and such a police state it would be an unimaginable. | :19:29. | :19:34. | |
I can't believe anyone would actually do it or even | :19:35. | :19:40. | |
think it was doable, but that's what he | :19:41. | :19:42. | |
I think we're all at a loss as to what's going to happen. | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
In last night's TV debate, he struck a note of diplomacy | :19:47. | :19:49. | |
in dealings with Russia, selling himself as the broker, | :19:50. | :19:51. | |
Wouldn't it be nice if we could get along with Russia, we could get | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
along with foreign countries, instead of spending | :19:57. | :19:57. | |
Warmer words for Putin than for those on the stage with him | :19:58. | :20:03. | |
Watch where it got properly low-budget. | :20:04. | :20:09. | |
If they are small, something else must be small. | :20:10. | :20:15. | |
I guarantee you, there is no problem. | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
And, when you've finished cringing, consider this. | :20:19. | :20:25. | |
He's a man insecure enough to big up what commentators | :20:26. | :20:27. | |
here would call his manhood on American TV. | :20:28. | :20:29. | |
Perhaps, if his sense of masculinity is that important, | :20:30. | :20:31. | |
all bets are off when it comes to how he sees America | :20:32. | :20:34. | |
So what does the popularity of Trump tell us about America's mindset | :20:35. | :20:47. | |
at the moment - is it a country turning in on itself? | :20:48. | :20:50. | |
And is this idea of retrenchment a bigger phenomenon? | :20:51. | :20:52. | |
Europe is becoming increasingly fractious and fractured | :20:53. | :20:54. | |
amid a deepening row about migration. | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
And of course there is this summer's EU referendum here. | :21:00. | :21:01. | |
And all of this happening against the backdrop | :21:02. | :21:03. | |
of an increasingly bellicose Vladimir Putin and a murderous | :21:04. | :21:05. | |
Are the ties that hold the West together weakening | :21:06. | :21:14. | |
To discuss I am joined from Oxford by Professor Timothy Garton Ash, | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
professor of European Studies, from Yale by Timothy Snyder, | :21:19. | :21:21. | |
historian of Central and Eastern Europe; and here | :21:22. | :21:23. | |
in London by Anne Applebaum, the writer and historian. | :21:24. | :21:33. | |
Good evening, Timothy Snyder, what you to think is the Trumpian view of | :21:34. | :21:41. | |
world policy? It is hard to say foreign policy requires some sense | :21:42. | :21:44. | |
of your nation's interests, there has been no line on that, it | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
requires some sense of what your nation's capabilities are, he has | :21:50. | :21:52. | |
said little about that. As far as one takes a or shack test, there are | :21:53. | :21:59. | |
three main thing, the first is antagonising latsen America, destab | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
hiding Mexico, the second is antagonising the Muslim world, | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
talking about killing family, deporting people, talking about not | :22:07. | :22:12. | |
letting refugees in and the third is substituting our long and important | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
relationship with Europe and European Union for a personal Chummy | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
relationship with Vladimir Putin of rush. And on those three, why is it, | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
do you think they strike a chord with some American, especially those | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
who are not doing very well and see their money go out into foreign | :22:32. | :22:34. | |
enterprise? It is, from from the point of view of the rest of world | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
America seem like champion of Golubevlisation, from the point of | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
view o a lot of the electorate they feel like a victim. There are people | :22:45. | :22:51. | |
who have an understandable sense be are overextended, they are taking | :22:52. | :22:54. | |
the pain of globalisation, what Trump offers is a kind of life | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
coaching, a way of jumping over our own shadow where instead of having a | :23:00. | :23:02. | |
measured policy, he simply is going to assert that we are great, and | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
then improvise from there. Anne Applebaum on that point, you have | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
written a piece in the Washington Post with what might ham in a Trump | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
presidency, and it is a break down of the west. One of the | :23:16. | :23:18. | |
possibilities that we now have in front of us and it is not only the | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
Trump presidency but the EU referendum, the French election next | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
year, any one of a number of things that could happen, one of the | :23:28. | :23:30. | |
possibilities is a break down of what we call the west, and what we | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
call the western alliance, and it is a sort of thing we have relied on | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
for 60 years, it is always been there, it has created this space of | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
prosperity and stability. It has allowed people to get on with their | :23:45. | :23:48. | |
lives and we have stopped caring about it. In order to maintain it, | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
that requires a, not just an American President, but it requires | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
European leaders as well, who are willing to invest in the boring and | :23:56. | :24:01. | |
sometimes repetitive task of making deals, and compromising and | :24:02. | :24:04. | |
negotiations and none of that seems to work any more in an era when | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
people want to hear loud exclamations and reality TS | :24:11. | :24:12. | |
personalities. Professor Timothy Garton Ash how dangerous a moment do | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
you this I think is? I wish I could be more cheerful than your other two | :24:18. | :24:20. | |
guests but I think that is right. I think we are in danger also of | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
seeing the ebeginning of the end of the European Union. One would have | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
to say that historically, the west as a geopolitical actor was held | :24:31. | :24:35. | |
together by having a common enemy, Nazi Germany and the axis powers and | :24:36. | :24:41. | |
the Soviet Union through the Cold War, the problem is that we have | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
multiple common enemies, Islamic terrorism and home-grown in Europe, | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
an aggressive Russia under Vladimir Putin and a rising China which is | :24:51. | :24:56. | |
building artificial islands with rocket launchers in the South China | :24:57. | :24:59. | |
Seas, one of the things which has happened which is a long-term | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
change, is that America is focussing increasingly and perhaps rightsly on | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
a rising China, as its great power rival, -- rightly. That leaves us in | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
Europe to face up to the challenges of Islamic terrorism and | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
particularly of Russia, which we are singularly failing to do. No | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
guarantee, Anne was talking about Nato and so force Ford, but no | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
guarantee for example that trouble in Europe would bring America in | :25:29. | :25:34. | |
under a Trump presidency, there is no guarantee he might not do this | :25:35. | :25:37. | |
deal with this guy Putin that he seems to like and leave us standing. | :25:38. | :25:44. | |
As far as one can make out, Trump understands international politics | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
in terms of personal relationships and he has instinctive attractions | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
to certain figures which would be men of a certain age and political | :25:53. | :25:58. | |
proclivities o, so that puts him in a camp with people like berl sew | :25:59. | :26:02. | |
any. Or Putin. That he would care about European interests is hard to | :26:03. | :26:07. | |
imagine, it is not clear he cares about US interest, one has to have a | :26:08. | :26:11. | |
sense object what America's place in the world ought to be, aside from | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
the kind of Mars tips tick cheerleading we have got so far. | :26:17. | :26:20. | |
Where have the seeds of this come from, do you think The seeds of this | :26:21. | :26:26. | |
in the US? In the US and Europe. This retrenchment, this upset and | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
unhappiness within Europe. You have talked about the fact we might be | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
nearing the end of the European Union, where with the seeds shown? I | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
am not sure we can describe this as the same phenomenon because in the | :26:41. | :26:43. | |
case of the Voluntary Euthanasia Society it is the discome -- the | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
United States it is the stagnant class and a sense of the relative | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
decline of the United States as a great power hence the motto make | :26:55. | :27:01. | |
America great again, I think in the case of Europe, people feel | :27:02. | :27:10. | |
overwhelmed by a multitude of European crises, the eurozone | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
crisis, the migrant crisis, the refugee crisis, the rise of populist | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
zen foe nick party, what is clear is that the United States is not going | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
to ride to our rescue, everyone under, by the way, a President | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
Hillary Clinton, which is in fact the most likely outcome, because a | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
candidate Trump makes a President Clinton much more likely. So, Anne, | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
you talked about the problems in Europe, you look at Hungary, the | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
rise of right-wing leaders again, particularly in the eastern area of | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
Europe, victor or back as one, you think where is the common connection | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
in Europe? It seems to have disappeared so fast, perhaps because | :27:53. | :27:55. | |
of the refugee crisis, the splits have shown, but it shows there isn't | :27:56. | :28:01. | |
actually common cause. Well there was a sense until 20082009 there was | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
a sense that Europe was a kind of island of prosperity and stability | :28:07. | :28:09. | |
in the world, and that integrating wit... And democracy worked. Yes and | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
integrating and growing with us was the best way forward. That was so | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
automatic people didn't think about alternatives. Since the time of the | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
crash in 2008, the eurozone crash in 2009 people began to question at | :28:26. | :28:28. | |
that point whether this is right for my country, is it going the right | :28:29. | :28:34. | |
way. That said I wouldn't say it is an east European problem, I would | :28:35. | :28:40. | |
say it is a pan-Europe problem it has shown itself in flukes in | :28:41. | :28:43. | |
particular place, the rise of the right. Right isn't the right word | :28:44. | :28:51. | |
any more because the National Front has left-wing economics but populist | :28:52. | :28:54. | |
language and the rise of similar parties in the Netherlands and other | :28:55. | :29:00. | |
parts of the world, Europe, are the same, so I think it is a growing | :29:01. | :29:06. | |
problem across the Continent. You wanted in there I wanted to say as | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
does the governing party in Poland. It is a mistake to see this as just | :29:12. | :29:17. | |
an east European problem. It is a pan-Europe problem, it also is to be | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
observed that Vladimir Putin is very keen on Marine Le Pen and reportedly | :29:23. | :29:27. | |
helped to fund her party, Europe at the moment in its disunity is giving | :29:28. | :29:34. | |
Putin's Russia many opportunities to divide and rule. I could I just add | :29:35. | :29:40. | |
this is therefore particularly frivolous moment for Britain to be | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
contemplating leaving the European Union. That is a prospect that fills | :29:45. | :29:50. | |
the United States with horror, and Vladimir Putin with delight. | :29:51. | :29:56. | |
Timothy Snyder, if the 20th century was America's century that would not | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
necessarily be the case in the 21st, do you think? I think that is still | :30:01. | :30:05. | |
wide-open. What I would say about the 20th century is this. The common | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
trend we see in the remarks of colleagues here, is the rise of | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
national populism, whether it is in Russia, Poland, Hungary, France or | :30:15. | :30:21. | |
the United States. What national populism has in common is awe. | :30:22. | :30:25. | |
Leaders can support each other, what they can do is build commence | :30:26. | :30:29. | |
structure, what the history tells us is there was never a good moment | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
when nations were alone, so the institutions that hold us together, | :30:34. | :30:40. | |
whether it is the the European Union, they are more important than | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
we think. Russia or France or Hungary alone has no place to go. If | :30:45. | :30:50. | |
we forgot that we should think again about the crucial decades of 20th | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
centuries. Finally, if there is something to be optimistic about. | :30:55. | :30:58. | |
What is it? Is there something that can hold us together I think the | :30:59. | :31:03. | |
ideals of the west and the idealles of democracy are things that people | :31:04. | :31:06. | |
care about and will fight for. In each of the countries you mentioned | :31:07. | :31:12. | |
where there is a rise of populism or authoritarianism, there has been a | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
push back and an argument, so it isn't as if it has disappear it has | :31:17. | :31:20. | |
been challenged in a more severe way, than we are used to. Thank you | :31:21. | :31:22. | |
all very much. The front pages, the times Osbourne | :31:23. | :31:31. | |
abandons assault on pension, threat of a new Tory revolt before a | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
referendum. That is because the risks of Tory MPs derailing his | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
leadership hopes. Hopes. The FT is doing the same story. And finally, | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
again, in the Guardian, Chancellor backs down on pension this is a | :31:47. | :31:52. | |
story we reported op last night. So these are tomorrow morning's | :31:53. | :31:53. | |
front-pages. Now for arts night. This week's show is an encounter | :31:54. | :31:56. | |
between the superstar author Karl Ove Knausgaard, | :31:57. | :31:58. | |
who mines his personal life for his books, and the neurosurgeon | :31:59. | :32:00. | |
Henry Marsh, author of the memoir Do No Harm, which details his | :32:01. | :32:03. | |
life in brain surgery. Both figures are obsessed | :32:04. | :32:05. | |
with the importance and dangers And we should say this programme | :32:06. | :32:07. | |
contains some scenes of surgery. Your father was a very | :32:08. | :32:29. | |
dominating element in your life. Do you think that troubled | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
relationship with him has been a driving force behind | :32:35. | :32:36. | |
what you wrote? | :32:37. | :32:42. |