28/04/2016 Newsnight

The Labour leader says it's business as usual.

That was Hitler's policy when he first came into power. I think you

have lost, Mr Livingstone. All of this is toxic.

Bradford is the city in the eye of the Labour storm after MP

Naz Shah was suspended over anti-Semitic tweets.

So what does her community make of the row?

The position she is in, it is disgusting what she said.

Because I don't blame all Israelis and all Jews for what is going

The Energy Minister tells us why she believes a Brexit

The playwright Michael Morpurgo tells us why he's not so sure.

We are not a world power as we once were.

We are a significant country in Europe.

Everyone seems to think that we're not in Europe.

We're in Europe, whether we like it or not.

You cannot move the country towards America.

And a very special performance to mark International Jazz Day.

"Much of the criticism about crisis in the party comes from those

who are nervous of the strength of the Labour Party

Those words were the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn's considered response

to the row over anti-semitism that led him to suspend his close friend

Ken Livingstone from the party today after he invoked Adolf Hitler

as an early advocate of Zionism - a remark that led to a huge face

to face row with the Labour MP John Mann, who accused him

But Jeremy Corbyn's "crisis, what crisis" suggests that he views

the row over anti-semitism more as an attack on his leadership

Here is John Swinney. All I wanted to do was get on with some

gardening. But it was not to be. Time to apologise? Why are you being

told to apologise? Why have you brought Adolf Hitler into it? Why is

he a vote winner? How on earth did that happen? Earlier on the

breakfast show, when asked about internet posts by the now suspended

Labour MP Naz Shah... She talked about relocating Israel to America,

she talked about what Hitler did being legal and she talked about the

Jews rallying, not using the word is released... That was not

anti-Semitic? It was not, whenever Hitler won the election in 1932, his

policy was that Jews should be moved to Israel, he was supporting

Zionism. That was the breakfast show. By 11 o'clock, who was heading

for the studios at Westminster. On the way, who did he meet but a

Labour comrades. John Mann, MP. You are a Nazi apologist. Rewriting

history... By now, Sadiq Khan, the Labour candidate for his old job,

Mayor of London, had called for his suspension. If you read Mein

Kampf... When was that written? About 1924. That is anti-Semitic.

And outrageous, when he wrote that back then, why bring up this

distinction between him? This is toxic, isn't it? Journalists should

not ask those questions if you do not want me to answer them. All I

wanted to do was some gardening but because a journalist asked me the

question, I answered it... Some Labour MPs would have loved it if

you stayed and did your gardening. Do you think you should stand down

and leave the Labour Party to get on with their election that having this

weird argument about Adolf Hitler being a Zionist? We are above all of

these issues... Almost lost in all of this was another comment by Ken

Livingstone in that interview. He suggested I distinction between

anti-Semitism and racism. I lunchtime was the news that Ken

Livingstone was toast, or at least suspended from the party. Labour

suspensions over accusations of anti-Semitism these days are coming

right London buses. All at once. But Ken Livingstone is not anybody, he

scored the Jeremy Corbyn project going way back. Here he is with Hugo

Chavez in happier times. This afternoon, this from the leader.

Party membership is as big as it has been in my lifetime, 400,000

individual members, 100,000 affiliated supporters, 3 million

affiliated trade union members. It is a very big organisation and I

suspect that much of this criticism that you say about crisis in the

party comes from those who are nervous about the strength of the

Labour Party at a local level. Not everyone is convinced. Mr Corbyn

said crisis, what crisis? And this quote comes from those who are

nervous about the strength of the Labour Party at a local level. This

is about anti-Semitism, the Labour Party has always stood against

discrimination and racism and we are falling short of those principles

and ideals. In seven days, much of Britain goes to the polls. In

London, all addicts is happening in an extraordinary atmosphere. Labour

has descended into a catastrophic rise over anti-Semitism. Meanwhile,

the Conservatives are accused of stigmatising Labour's candidate,

said it can, for being who he is. For the first time in decades, the

politics of religion and identity are at play.

Well, we're joined now from Leeds by Jon Trickett,

Shadow Local Government Secretary and close friend of Jeremy Corbyn.

Good evening. You have been a member of the party for almost 50 years,

can you remember any time when Bob Dudley anti-Semitic remarks were

made by Labour MPs? Know, and this is not acceptable, I was a victim

myself of an anti-Semitic attack last year and I went to court and

the man involved was found guilty and I was absolutely astonished.

That that happened on the streets of Britain. And it is equally appalling

if anybody expresses any view inside the Labour Party which has a long

record of fighting racism and fighting anti-Semitism and we will

continue to strongly play the argument against any form of racism.

Let us clarify some points. One what is anti-Semitism and what is

anti-Israel. Ken Livingstone today, is it acceptable for him to say that

Hitler was a supporter of Zionism? I did not hear him in that interview

but the truth is, the bits that I have seen caused me to feel very

uncomfortable. The idea that we should somehow be going back to some

period in the life of Hitler when he was working with the Jewish nation

or Jewish race is ludicrous. In 2016, the problems which the nation

is facing right now, and there is a rise of anti-Semitism in the country

and the Labour Party will play a major leading role in fighting bad.

Have no doubt. Let's get another remark, racism is not the same as

anti-Semitism. Do you believe that? Anti-Semitism is racism. It is

racist. Let us be clear about this, racism has no part at all in our

country and in a progressive party like the Labour Party, this must

have a role and Jeremy Corbyn did act within moments, within a couple

of hours, after hearing those comments from Ken Livingstone,

notwithstanding the fact they have worked together for many years. He

was suspended and rightly so. He was slower when it came to Naz Shah. Her

statements... Israel should be removed to the US. Is that

anti-Semitic? It is completely unacceptable. Anti-Semitic? Of

course it is. And let me say, Naz Shah was within three hours of that

statement being brought to our attention, was off the job she was

doing... She was not suspended. Hang on. She stood down within three

hours from the job she had and asked to make an apology to the house and

she did and was then suspended. As soon as the information was

available to the party. Not one case has lasted more than 48 hours from

the moment it was brought to our attention to the point at which

action was taken. Naz Shah also said two other things... The Jews are

rallying and she also compared Zionism to Al-Qaeda. You said she

was removed from her position as PPS to John McDowall but during her

first interview she was not suspended and some time longer to

deal with Naz Shah. It took 36 hours from start to finish, everybody is

untitled two due process. This is a member of the Labour Party who

represents people in Bradford. Action was taken and it was tough,

it was straightforward and it was quick and she will have a chance,

she apologised to the house and she will have a chance to better case to

the committee. -- put her case. This is unacceptable in the modern Labour

Party and we will not tolerate that and as somebody who has been in

court recently as a victim of anti-Semitic action, let me make

this clear to everybody, I was speaking to the leadership and this

is unacceptable behaviour, these views are not part of modern Britain

and the modern Labour Party. Is there a problem on the left of

politics that eight strong anti-Israeli sentiment has crossed

into anti-Semitism is not I do not know that is the case, racism is

normally an attribute of the right-wing, in the titles you drew

attention to the anti-Muslim comments made by the Prime Minister.

You sound rather complacent. Is there a strong... Anti-Semitic

sentiment bleeding into the party? It is acceptable to have a debate

about the actions of any Israeli government, right or wrong, but when

this bleeds into anti-Semitism and racism, it is completely wrong and

that should not happen and will not be tolerated in this party and I

accept the point you are making, some people fail to make the

distinction but in doing so, if you think they are promoting the cause

of the Palestinians by adopting racist language, and attitudes

towards the Israelis, they are not, they are doing damage to the cause.

But if you have got a leader, people like Rachel Reeves, they say is

giving a slow response and we are falling short of principles are the

Labour Party, she says this is a growing problem and Jeremy Corbyn

has not responded, not just in the last couple of days but to this

problem that has been boiling away. I think boiling might be a slight

exaggeration but there is no complicity here, each case has been

dealt with immediately, Jeremy will make a series of announcements

shortly about all of this and we will continue to act in the most

vigorous way. Any sign of racism in this party will not be tolerated and

we will continue to lead the movement against racism in our

country. Jeremy Corbyn, it appeared to me, to not quite deflect the

anti-Semitism ride but talking about the influx of new members to the

party, he said that much of this criticism over anti-Semitism comes

from people who are nervous of the strength of the party at local

level. Do you really agree? I hope that nobody is using the acquisition

of anti-Semitism for factional reasons. I hope nobody is doing that

but let us be clear, whatever... But do you agree with Jeremy Corbyn that

much of this criticism being levelled at Labour over

anti-Semitism is in reality a criticism of the strength of the

party at local level? It sounds like deflection? We're not going to

tolerate any form of racism or anti-Semitism in the party and our

actions in the last few days showed this is the case, a member of the

running seat today has been dealt with and I hope this is the end of

it because people need to know that we will act with great firmness and

we will lead the anti-racist movement, as the Labour Party always

did and always will and in my own case, my grandmother was Jewish. I

remember the anti-Semitism she faced on the streets of Leeds. It looks

like it has seen a resurgence. We will not put up with this. Let's be

finally put this to you that Jeremy Corbyn is suggesting very clearly

that the criticism of the Labour Party over anti-Semitism has got its

roots in problems he says that people have with the strength of the

local Labour Party. On Newsnight last night, a rabbi and Lord Levi

were critical of the party and anti-Semitism. You really do not

think that they are concerned over the strength of Jeremy Corbyn's

Labour Party at local level? It is not something that occurred to me

that they would think and not something I believe either. What I

believe is that racism is unacceptable in our country and the

party and we will deal with it. Thank you.

Joining me in the studio is Labour MP Wes Streeting.

How disturbing is all this to you? This has been a pretty dreadful day

for the Labour Party and the latest in a string of dreadful days

concerning anti-Semitism, whether it is as we have seen in the last

couple of days actions by members of the parliamentary party, but plenty

of examples also of activists and their language, many of whom predate

the leadership of Jeremy Corbyn. When I see are leader on television

effectively saying crisis, what crisis? I think needs to talk to

some of my constituents who are telling me about the struggle they

are having with voting Labour, many who have voted Labour their entire

lives. Deeply hurtful to those who would suffer from anti-Semitism, for

Jeremy Corbyn to say they are just concerned about the strength of the

Labour Party? Absolutely, today we have had people from across the

spectrum of the Labour family speaking out against this. If it is,

as I was just saying, about the flexion, surely that is deeply

insulting? There has been an issue with the flat-footed response of the

Labour Party, that is when the issue was first on our radar as MP's as a

source of serious concern, that we were not acting quickly enough. On

the question of Ken Livingstone, the hierarchy will say he is under

investigation, but in the modern Labour Party, after what has

happened do you think there is a place Ken Livingstone? No, I would

not be sorry if he did not return. In the case of Ken Livingstone he

went out today to defend comments which Naz Shah herself did not

defend. She expressed remorse and a determination to behave differently

and will be judged by how she behaves in the future as well as the

past. But Ken Livingstone went around like a political arsonist

pouring petrol all over serious issues facing the Labour Party and

made matters worse. I don't know what he thought he was achieving and

he is on the ruling NEC, the body that supports to enforce the rule

book. How can have people have confidence the party is combating

anti-Semitism when he is behaving this way? You have said that

activists are making anti-Semitic remarks and I know you have been

looking for a readership on this? Absolutely, let's be clear, the

majority of Labour Party members will be appalled by what has

happened and it all of our responsibility to speak up to create

an environment where Jewish people and all decent minded people are

included. But Jeremy Corbyn has a reach across the left, parts of the

left weather is a problem with anti-Semitism and he is a lifelong

anti-racist so it's not just the responsibility to act, there is a

great opportunity. Jon Trickett would say he has act quickly in the

case of Ken Livingstone and reasonably quickly on Naz Shah, but

what else does he have to do? Labour members of the all-party group

against anti-Semitism offered to meet Jeremy Corbyn because I think

there are practical things we can do in terms of the Labour Party rules

and structures, to make a practical difference. We asked for that

meeting and were told it is going ahead after the elections in May but

still no date has been fixed and it reinforces the idea, and their

comments Jeremy Mincey later in the day have further fanned the flames.

-- the comments Jeremy Mincey later. A big problem for Labour, this is a

damaging issue. Absolutely. We have seen leadership from the city can,

and we should see that from the top -- from Sadiq Khan. Decent minded

conservatives have done the same but we cannot have double standards, we

had to show leadership in our own party and get our own house in

order. Thank you. This row started with

the Bradford West MP Naz Shah's social media posts suggesting Israel

should be moved to America, for which, at first,

Jeremy Corbyn saw no reason to suspend her - a decision

he reversed later yesterday. Naz Shah made a fulsome apology

to the Commons but her actions have opened a Pandora's Box

out of which jumped - as we've discussed - Ken Livingstone

in spectacular fashion. So what is the reaction in her home

town, where she made Secunder Kermani spent the day

in the city of Bradford. The pews in what is now Bradford 's

only synagogue used to be fooled. Now it has a congregation of just

over a dozen. But when it was in danger of closing it was the local

Muslim community who stepped in to save it. There is even an Muslim

only synagogue council. So far as we know... This man who fled Nattie

Germany in the 1930s is the chair of the synagogue. -- Nattie Germany.

Naz Shah has visited twice and he says he is confident she is not

anti-Semitic. Had you seen people being hostile to Jews because of the

row lace -- Air Race and a legend and what is happening in Palestine?

There is some confusion but there should not be, which I have alluded

to before, the two are separate. Sometimes they merge, but they

should not be confused. Do you think Naz Shah was one of those people who

was confusing the issues? Maybe in 2014 when she made these do Robert

Guerrero marks but nowadays she is as entitled to criticise Israel as

anyone else. But she's not anti-Semitic. Bradford West has one

of the largest populations of British Pakistanis of any

parliamentary seat and many people here the Israel Palestine conflict

is a big issue. When George Galloway was MP he even controversially

declared the city and Israel free zone. Some people think the zero

Shah is being and thoroughly criticised and others have said she

should have stood her ground. But these local voters we spoke to

thought she was right to have been suspended. I at 22 at the time would

not have made any comment about needing to be relocated regardless

of how emotional I was so I think it's possible to differentiate and

the anti-Zionist and not anti-Semitic. Boris Johnson said bad

stuff about black people, that's not been noticed or brought up. It has

been brushed aside. Maybe because she is Muslim, maybe because she is

an Asian MP from Bradford. She has not helped calls herself. Do you

think some people here think good for her, she spoke up in favour of

the Palestinians were not many other politicians are? Yes, she spoke up

for them which is all good, I am in favour of everyone who speaks up for

them because they need a voice to be heard but it is the manner of how

you speak up. Like anything in life, it is the manner of doing it, it is

not about blowing it out, whatever comes into your head. We have told

her comments were flagged up to the media by disgruntled local rivals

but they have become part of a very national issue for Labour.

Scotland's Parliamentary elections next week look likely to return

another SNP majority in an electoral system that was designed to prevent

single party government in the Scottish Parliament.

And the latest Ipsos Mori poll for Scottish Television

suggests that Labour, once unassailable, could come third

behind the Conservatives in what would be their worst showing

for more than a century, when the Labour Party

So what are the lessons of political history in Scotland that

explain massive shifts in political popularity?

And if the SNP are the new establishment,

Here's our political editor, David Grossman.

The physical landscape of Scotland is reassuringly familiar.

But in politics, it's hard to find a recognisable landmark

The tectonic plates of Scottish politics have shifted.

How long they have shifted for, I think for generations it

George Square, Glasgow, scene of celebration,

rally and protest during the independence

Overseeing it all, the seagull-spattered statue

of a former colossus of Scottish and British politics.

His party once took 85% of the vote in Scotland, although on a very

Today, like Ozymandias, the Empire has weathered to dust.

When Gladstone was Prime Minister and, incidentally, an MP

for a Scottish constituency, you could say without a shadow

of a doubt that the Liberal Party were the political

In the '90s and 2000s, Gordon Brown had rather taken

on the Gladstonian role and Labour was utterly dominant.

Are they the new political establishment in Scotland?

That certainly is how the other parties want to portray them.

There is no doubt that the SNP are the new Scottish establishment.

And what is worse is that they are conservatively cautious with it.

And I think that is depressing for a party that claims to be

Because their only goal, ultimately, is independence,

they are keeping things smooth and safe so they can get that

independence and I think that is not good enough for Scotland.

I want Scotland to be the best again.

They should want that because they say they

So what has caused these huge and, so far, lasting

One theory is that voters gravitate towards whoever is seen to best

express a distinctive Scottish identity.

And that has taken a few forms over the years, but now, of course,

the standard manifestation is that Scots are more left-wing

than those in England, more egalitarian, more caring,

more concerned with social justice and less interested

in lining their own pockets and big business.

And there are elements in truth in all of that but a lot

Nevertheless, the SNP own that view of how the majority of Scots

Labour used to have that and before them it was the Unionist and before

And whoever captures the sense of Scottishness,

that sense of self, tends to do well in political terms.

This shift has had a profound impact on the other parties, too.

The Scottish Conservatives were once led, in turn,

by a privately educated tax lawyer and an elder

In a million years, they would never have tried this.

Or perhaps arranging to meet journalists in a pub at 11am,

but Ruth Davidson is clearly a very different type of

Not to be First Minister but to lead an effective opposition

I think fundamentally they come from quite a similar

ideological space, of course there is the nationalist-unionist

divide, although the Labour Party seems to be going a little bit

softer on the union, they have lost their

But in terms of their ideology, actually it is somewhat similar.

In the time I have been in the Scottish Parliament,

I cannot count the number of bills and legislation that I have seen

being put through and I have seen the Labour Party's attempt

at opposition amount pretty much to grumbling a bit

from the sidelines and then voting for it anyway.

And that is not really asking people, it is not challenging

or having a debate, it is not having scrutiny.

And that is why the SNP have been given a bit of a free ride.

Whilst the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats have

had time to get used to political marginality,

Labour is still showing the signs of a party in shock.

Last May, a forest of 40 Labour MPs was felled, leaving

Iain Murray is the only Labour MP in Scotland.

Is it going to be a quick fix to get Labour back where it was,

I don't think it is a quick fix, the Scottish Labour Party has had

And it is not going to be fixed in one election or in six months,

it is a long-term project, Kezia Dugdale has stated

In fact, our manifesto is a manifesto for the long-term,

it is not just looking at the elections next Thursday,

it is not just looking to 2020, 2021, it is looking to where

What do we need to compete in the world?

Because if we don't analyse what we need to compete

in the world and we don't deal with that and use the powers

of the Scottish Parliament to deliver that, then we will be

left behind and we cannot afford for that to happen.

And where does all this leave the SNP?

Despite their dominance, they still reject the title "establishment".

Where we have separated ourselves out from the

People believe that the establishment in the UK Parliament,

for example, they have a terrible track record when it

came to the expenses scandal, we saw that.

When it has come to the recently released Panama Papers,

we have seen how members of the establishment have been...

Their friends and themselves have been involved in evading tax

Up here in Scotland, if you take the Scottish Parliament

as an example, and the Scottish government and the SNP,

we were not embroiled in the scandal, the Panama accounts

have not shown any connections because there aren't connections

Nevertheless, since the General Election,

two SNP MPs have lost the party whip while allegations of financial

If the polls are even within a Royal mile of being accurate,

the SNP looks set to continue its amazing dominance

In the EU referendum arguments on the economy,

the voices shouting loudest so far have been warning about the adverse

impact of a Brexit - the latest being the Chancellor's

insistence that leaving the EU would slow growth and do permanent

But today a group of economists have produced a report -

a sort of Eight Horsemen against the Apocalypse -

The eight economists claim that in, in fact, the UK economy

would be boosted by 4% if we were outside the EU.

Their report argues we wouldn't even need a new trade agreement

because 70% of our exports are traded under World Trade

The eight economists say the report is designed to dispel

the exaggerated claims and threats whipped up by Project Fear.

They argue that the benefits of the EU single market have been

greatly oversold and the downside of belonging is that you must apply

all its rules and conditions throughout the whole economy.

So although only 12% of our GDP is directly accounted

for by exports to the EU, the 88% that is not must obey

A Brexit, they say, would lead to a 2% improvement in output

The economists claim that consumer prices would fall by about 8%.

Their argument being that the EU is a customs union and as such it

artificially inflates the prices of agricultural

and manufacturing goods, which hurts UK households.

They forecast that if the UK remains in the EU, GDP growth

By comparison, a post-Brexit reality, they predict,

The economists concede short-term uncertainty but insist that this

would be outweighed by the long-term benefits of becoming

Joining me now is Andrea Leadsom, who is the Minister of State

at the Department of Energy and Climate Change.

She didn't write today's report, but she firmly believes the UK

Given all of the following wind for staying inside, presumably this is

music to your ears? It is great to see an alternative view and as I

have said, it is very difficult to gaze into the crystal ball even to

next month, 15 years, as economists are trying, but it is important to

show there is another side to this argument. We will go on to whether

or not the figures mean anything but when it comes to the arguments for

staying within the EU or leaving, the document suggests that no flight

of global situations, but if you look at HSBC, Standard Chartered,

none of them at all will give any fall for leaving. HSBC have just on

their periodic review of where they should face their business and have

decided to stay in London. Looking at merging with the London Stock

Exchange, they know there is a referendum coming up so you have to

follow the money and not just look at the rhetoric. Let us look at some

figures, the document is full of productions that we would be better

off if we left. He would be more competitive, GDP would grow, we

would be more productive and so forth. That is one set of figures,

and yet leave EU were very keen to rubbish the Chancellor when he said

that if we left the EU, we would be ?4300 per head worse off. What do

you think? Well, that figure, the Treasury figure, assumes that the

UK, if we leave the EU, pulls up the drawbridge, does no more trade and

gets a very basic trade agreement with the EU and as a result, of our

failure to do any International Trade, productivity will decline and

that is where you get that number from. It just does not stack up.

We're in a situation where this document is stuffed full of figures

saying we would be better to go and those wanting to remain give just as

much. You are rubbishing the Chancellor? It is very difficult for

economists to look at next month let alone in 15 years and all I would

say about this, this is not a document, they are eight different

essays on an aspect of leaving the EU, incredibly eminent economists

with a very valid view and they think there would be a benefit

economically to leaving the European Union. I am not just justify their

opinion but we have to look at the big picture, how could the UK

survive outside? Remain say they have the OECD, the US Treasury, the

CBI, Barack Obama, stacked up against them? Well, there is a very

big visitation of gaining up against the poor British voter but if you

look at life from the point of view of the British voter, the British

voter actually is in a situation where if you are trying to get a

good school plays or a doctor 's appointment or onto housing ladder,

there is an overwhelming and uncontrollable goblin of too many

people which is a direct result of being in the EU. This is about

immigration as well? It is about a number of factors but I am talking

about the fact that international institutions and other politicians

do not have skin in this game, those who do are the British public, who

will be voting. In terms of productivity and GDP growth, what

these economists say is that if we were outside the EU, we would not

have the free movement of EU citizens and we could cherry pick

the cream of the immigrants who wanted to come. The same number of

immigrants, but it would give us a broader range of abilities. Do you

agree? I think immigration is a good thing up to a point but the problem

we have is when it is uncontrolled and puts enormous pressure on UK

public services then it is a problem. The other impact, is to put

wages down for British workers and therein lies the problem, a certain

amount of immigration is good but those immigrants need to be people

who can contribute to this economy. By and large, the immigration within

the European Union has been good for the country because they come and

want to work very hard. The report from the Bank of England last year

said that the wave of new people coming into the country has put down

wages for the lower paid. Do you think that Britain should come out

of the single market? I certainly think that Britain has the most

amazing future ahead of us if we leave. We're not a tiny country, by

the world's fifth biggest economy with the best contract law in the

world, part of the Commonwealth of 2.5 billion consumers and we have

the least corrupt judicial system in the world and some of the best

universities... Should become the single market? Almost certainly that

would be the case. Not like Norway and Switzerland? Norway has a

publishing of 6 million people and is largely goods traded and Iceland,

they have a proposition of 300,000, very good than Northampton. We would

operate on WTO rules? We would have a UK solution and there will be

something that is discussed once we get to the other side. Barack Obama

says we would be at the end of the queue for any kind of trade deal

were not having to deal with 500 million? Even the day after,

officials from the US Department had said there is no such thing as any

queue for international trade deals and anyway, the US does not have

many of them on the go and let us not forget that we have been in the

EU for 43 years, we are the biggest foreign direct investor for the US

and restore free trade agreement with the USA Today and there is no

reason to think if we did not keep one would not be perfectly in line

with countries like a man. If you do not leave that we need to operate

under WTO rules, you don't actually have any blueprint in how we could

deal with International Trade? We would have a British option, we

would immediately go from being a member of the EU to being the

biggest trading partner, it would be absolutely in their interests and

our own interests and we have been aligning our rules with their heirs

for 43 years, it would be very easy to negotiate, offensive free-trade.

Thank you very much indeed. In the run-up to the EU referendum,

Newsnight is inviting a number of public figures in the UK to tell

us their thoughts on the EU, whether they are passionate

advocates for Remain Tonight, the author and playwright,

and the man who wrote I think what we are in the process

of doing is finding a new place for ourselves in the world

and we have not quite found it. Europe has been, if you like,

our resting place for some time now But we are, I think, as a people,

uncomfortable being one We are not a world

power as we once were. We are a significant

country in Europe. Everyone seems to think that

we're not in Europe. There is the Channel between us

but we are in Europe, We cannot move the country towards

America. But in a way, we are,

to some extent, going back I think it has been

disappointing, the re-negotiation. Not necessarily because of

what David Cameron has or has not But because of the kind

of threat that it came with. It seems to me that when you go

into discussions with friends, you don't begin it by saying,

if I don't get what I want out of this discussion, I am leaving,

and I'll through my toys out We don't need to talk

to our friends that way. The creation of fear

and the uncertainty of it is being whipped up by one side

and by the other. And it seems to me that they're

missing the point I tend to be the kind of person

who listens to one side of it And then I hear the other side

and I think that's right. But they don't know any more

than I do. And I do know my history,

I do know we have been at peace for all these years and that has

something to do with the EU. This is not a club that I think

we should leave without thinking That's just about

all from us tonight. But we've just enough time for some

music in celebration The all-star Human Revolution

Orchestra will be performing An Ode to the Human Spirit

at London's Shaw Theatre on Saturday The acclaimed jazz guitarist

Hugh Burns is here to give us We are days away from the start of

me but this spring weather will continue. Low pressure bringing

further outbreaks of rain, sleet and hill snow to the northern half of

the country in particular and Northern Ireland getting