Browse content similar to 18/05/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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And a government dealing with dissent within opts | :00:00. | :00:07. | |
My government will use the opportunity of a strengthening | :00:08. | :00:24. | |
economy to deliver security for working people to increase life | :00:25. | :00:29. | |
chances for the most disadvantaged and to strengthen national defences. | :00:30. | :00:32. | |
We'll ask this Cabinet member if her government | :00:33. | :00:35. | |
The US senate has passed a highly controversial bill that lets | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
the families of 9/11 victims sue Saudi Arabia. | :00:42. | :00:43. | |
One family member will tell us why they'd like to. | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
Jeff Koons is a world-renowned artist and so is Damien Hirst. On | :00:49. | :01:03. | |
Newsnight, an exclusive television interview about what happens when | :01:04. | :01:09. | |
Damien Hirst puts on a show of Jeff Koons' work in London. | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
It's not easy to write 1,000 words when you haven't got much | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
to say - as some newspaper columnists demonstrate each week. | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
And maybe that was the problem of the Government in | :01:20. | :01:21. | |
drafting the 936-word Queen's Speech we heard today. | :01:22. | :01:23. | |
It wasn't so much that the Government has nothing to say - | :01:24. | :01:26. | |
it's just that with a slender majority and the party | :01:27. | :01:29. | |
in the midst of a vicious brawl, getting a majority on anything | :01:30. | :01:32. | |
So out came a miscellany of items in the not-so-difficult file. | :01:33. | :01:37. | |
Measures to promote driverless cars, hints that we'll | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
build a space port - which Twitter noted, we'll get | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
And some measures aimed at enhancing social mobility. | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
But of course, everything is seen through referendum glasses right | :01:50. | :01:52. | |
now, so one highlight was the non-appearance of any Bill | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
From Buckingham Palace, attended by an escort of Household Cavalry, the | :01:57. | :02:16. | |
Queen with Prince Philip begins her drive through the capital. The | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
annual ritual has barely changed in the 63 years the Queen has arrived | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
at the Palace of Westminster in her coach. The Queen has thankfully | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
never been burdened with having to write her speech, guaranteeing the | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
message changes as Prime Minister 's come and go. This year marked the | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
moment when her 12th Prime Minister, David Cameron, laid the ground for | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
what he hopes will be the legacy of the second and final phase of his | :02:44. | :02:51. | |
premiership. He wants to be seen as one of the great social reformers, | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
such as William Wilberforce, who ended slavery in much of the British | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
Empire. My government will legislate to reform prisonstoday's Queen's | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
Speech included measures to enhance the life chances of children in a | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
social work Bill, and measures to improve decrepit prisons. But the | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
Prime Minister knows he needs to win the EU referendum to have any hope | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
of fulfilling his ambitions. Even if he wins, he may have his ambitions | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
clouded by two factors, the shadow of Europe and his slim majority. The | :03:28. | :03:33. | |
Prime Minister showed he is walking on eggshells when two bills related | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
to Europe were shelved and delayed respectively. Brexit Cabinet | :03:38. | :03:43. | |
Minister 's were on their best behaviour, not least because Justice | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
Secretary Michael Gove will be at the heart of delivering reforms. But | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
one leading supporter of the Leave campaign suggests there could be | :03:52. | :03:53. | |
trouble ahead for one little campaign suggests there could be | :03:54. | :04:01. | |
aspect of the Prime Minister's deal, relinquishing the -- the veto in | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
relation to eurozone rules. We have already agreed in advance to | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
implement it, even though it could be harmful. That's what it is to be | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
a sitting duck, or it will be if we choose to remain in the European | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
Union. Today, Liam Fox insists he will accept the result of the | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
referendum, but I understand that some Eurosceptics are planning to | :04:27. | :04:29. | |
referendum, but I understand that use the forthcoming Tory leadership | :04:30. | :04:32. | |
contest to join battle on Europe again. When the leadership hustings | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
are eventually held, the candidates will be asked one simple question - | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
will you agree to restore British veto? There is probably only one | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
answer you can give to that question, attention the leading to | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
the unravelling of the Prime Minister's EU deal, and in the heart | :04:52. | :04:53. | |
of Eurosceptics, laying the grounds Minister's EU deal, and in the heart | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
for a possible second referendum. But one of Boris Johnson's allies | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
believes the Brexiters will be punished if they refuse to accept | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
defeat in the referendum. If we were to ignore the specific mandate from | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
the British people I think they would be furious. So the message I | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
would send out to everybody across the political spectrum is to respect | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
the decision the British people make, both in the general election | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
and in the referendum this year, to rally behind the Prime Minister. If | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
the referendum goes his way, the Prime Minister will still have to | :05:32. | :05:34. | |
tread carefully, in might of his slim majority. The majority is very | :05:35. | :05:41. | |
small. There will be more rebellions, obviously. Then there is | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
the problem of Tory election expenses and by-elections looming. I | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
do think it is a very comfortable position for him, even if we vote to | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
stay in, which I hope we will. There are signs that the government is | :05:56. | :06:01. | |
keen to avoid future Parliamentary bust ups. I understand Theresa May | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
is listening carefully to Labour and Tory critics of the contentious | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
investor greet Powers Bill, or snooper's charter. There will be | :06:11. | :06:18. | |
some move to secure cooperation on the timing of the bill. Downing | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
Street is finessing the next stage of David Cameron's premiership, but | :06:23. | :06:32. | |
he will only make progress if the dark clouds of Europe are cleared. | :06:33. | :06:35. | |
We'll talk to Liz Truss shortly, Secretary of State for Environment, | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
But before we do, it's been a busy old day in politics, | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
because not only did we have a Queen's Speech, | :06:43. | :06:44. | |
there was also a settlement in the junior doctors dispute. | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
Everyone says you shouldn't talk about winners and losers, | :06:48. | :06:49. | |
but if you do want to, it does look like the | :06:50. | :06:51. | |
Won the battle, but maybe losing the NHS. | :06:52. | :06:54. | |
What exactly is the settlement, and what have the government got out of | :06:55. | :07:02. | |
this? The last time there were talks, they ended when the BMA, the | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
doctors union, declined to talk about reducing overtime for doctors | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
who work on Saturday. The government wanted that because they want to | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
move to what they called the seven-day NHS. The BMA wouldn't even | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
talk about it and the government withdrew from talks. Then there were | :07:21. | :07:26. | |
strikes. The deal agreed today doesn't give overtime for normal | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
work on a Saturday or Sunday, which has been a bit of a shock to a lot | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
of junior doctors, who didn't know it was on the table. You do get a | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
bit of extra pay if you work enough Saturdays and Sundays, but it is not | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
the volumes you get at the moment. The total effect, from the | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
Department of Health's perspective, is that they think there is roughly | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
a 30% cuts to the cost of staffing in a facility with junior doctors | :07:55. | :08:01. | |
compared to the current situation. A really big saving. A lot of people | :08:02. | :08:04. | |
think the seven-day NHS is about to happen, but there's quite a lot | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
going on in the NHS. That isn't a foregone conclusion because the BMA | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
members have to vote. The bigger point is that the NHS is in | :08:14. | :08:24. | |
difficulty. Around 87% are seen within four hours. The target is | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
95%. There's all sorts of measures where things are not going badly | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
wrong. 2 million people turned up at a accident and emergency. The NHS is | :08:35. | :08:40. | |
going at the same speed but it hasn't kept up with a wave of | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
demand. You see that with performance measures and on the | :08:46. | :08:46. | |
financial side as well. Thank you. The Environment Secretary | :08:47. | :08:49. | |
Liz Truss is here. Can we start on the NHS. What do you | :08:50. | :09:01. | |
make of it? I am pleased there has been a resolution on this dispute. | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
Jeremy Hunt has set forward a very important reform agenda, a seven-day | :09:07. | :09:13. | |
NHS, which we need to see in order to see the improvements in care we | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
want to see as a nation. We are investing more money in the NHS, | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
which is important. Can we not argue that this is just one enormous | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
distraction. The service is drowning at the moment, according to Chris. | :09:27. | :09:34. | |
30% of page -- 13% of patients are waiting to be seen more than four | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
hours at A Huge deficits last year. Finance chiefs at hospitals | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
are expecting the same to happen this year. Has this not just been a | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
terrible waste of everybody's time and effort while the NHS is in a | :09:50. | :09:56. | |
real problem? We are seeing rising demand for NHS services. We are | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
seeing the increasing cost of things like drugs. Jeremy Hughes doing a | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
fantastic job. Having a big, distracting strike on another issue? | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
Getting to where we want to in terms of a seven-day NHS, which has huge | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
public support and is a manifesto commitment. But achieving that | :10:17. | :10:22. | |
agreement with doctors. Doctors worked very hard and are the | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
backbone of the NHS. I think the public will be very pleased that we | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
have got to a resolution on this issue, and we are moving forward on | :10:32. | :10:37. | |
this seven-day NHS. On the Queen's Speech, a lot of people have said it | :10:38. | :10:40. | |
is somewhat watered down. There's not a lot in there. I think it is | :10:41. | :10:49. | |
nonsense. I was surprised that one of the big decisions we were going | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
to get, airport capacity in the south-east, didn't get a mention. We | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
are looking at airport capacity and a decision will be made on that. | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
That has been heavily trailed already. There are two important | :11:03. | :11:09. | |
bills. There are over 20 bills in the Queen's Speech, covering all | :11:10. | :11:16. | |
kinds of areas, such as improving our productivity and social mobility | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
as a country. Prison Reform Trust and been done since Victorian times. | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
This is the biggest reform of Britain we've seen for a generation. | :11:26. | :11:33. | |
University reform, new universities established, looking at the quality | :11:34. | :11:41. | |
of teaching... This is a substantial Queen's Speech with very important | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
bills which are addressing the key issues we face as a country, which | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
is we have the second lowest productivity in the G7, and we have | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
very low rates of social mobility. What about the British bill of | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
rights? In the Queen's Speech last year, the Queen said, my government | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
will bring forward proposals for the British bill of rights. If that | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
happened? The government has been working hard on this. She didn't | :12:10. | :12:16. | |
bring it forward, which is why she said the same this year. Are we | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
going to hear it every year, or will it happen? It is a very complicated | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
legal issue. There are lots of ins and outs to discuss. You started | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
talking about it when you were and outs to discuss. You started | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
opposition. We are damned if we do, downed if we don't. If we put | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
something forward before it is ready, we get criticised. We are | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
working on something that is very important, bringing more | :12:46. | :12:47. | |
working on something that is very sense to human rights decisions. | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
Will it come this year? We are working on proposals and it's | :12:54. | :12:54. | |
important to get it right. And working on proposals and it's | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
another one that David working on proposals and it's | :13:00. | :13:02. | |
tantalise the party with. He said we would set out proposals to make | :13:03. | :13:09. | |
cleared the British Parliament's sovereignty. What happened to that | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
Bill? We are in the middle of a referendum campaign. We are voting | :13:15. | :13:23. | |
for that on June the 23rd. During that campaign, the British people | :13:24. | :13:26. | |
have to make a decision about whether they want to be in or out of | :13:27. | :13:35. | |
the EU. I am a big supporter of Remain. I think we will be better | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
off, safer and more secure, but the British people have to make that | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
decision. The sovereignty bill can only follow when we have decided | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
whether we are in or out of the EU. It would be premature to do that | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
before then. He said back in February it would be in the coming | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
days. The general point here is that everything is about trying to hold | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
the party together, which means tantalising each side of the party | :14:06. | :14:12. | |
with things they want. David Cameron has to offer these things every now | :14:13. | :14:15. | |
and then to some of his party to keep them loyal. Isn't that the | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
correct way to drive this government? What is driving the | :14:21. | :14:26. | |
government is the core issues facing this country, such as improving our | :14:27. | :14:32. | |
productivity, so we can earn more, improving our social mobility, so | :14:33. | :14:35. | |
that people are not left on the scrapheap. For me, that is why I | :14:36. | :14:43. | |
went into politics, because I care about making sure we have a society | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
of opportunity. That is what motivates us as conservatives. | :14:48. | :14:53. | |
Last one, is the referendum going to settle the issue of British | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
membership of the EU? We last had bought 40 years ago, the year I was | :14:59. | :15:05. | |
born. We are having vote now. What I want it to do is to settle that | :15:06. | :15:12. | |
question. I strongly hope that we secure a significant result. For the | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
Remain a side of the debate. I think that is important and I think it | :15:17. | :15:19. | |
would be good for the country. And if you get a leader who is a sceptic | :15:20. | :15:25. | |
and even some on the sceptical side, the Brexit side, say they will | :15:26. | :15:28. | |
accept the result and are hoping for a Brexit leader. Does that work? Do | :15:29. | :15:35. | |
you think a Brexit leader of these Conservative Party can make the best | :15:36. | :15:42. | |
of our relationship with the EU? Well, first of all, we have to have | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
the vote and it is a decision for the British public. This is not | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
about the Conservative Party or who is the next leader, this is a | :15:51. | :15:53. | |
serious question for our country. What I worry about is that the | :15:54. | :15:57. | |
public out there needs to think about the economic impact, the | :15:58. | :16:03. | |
impact on their family and jobs and the opportunities for their | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
children, to do things like travel overseas. This should not be about | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
the Conservative Party. That is not what this decision is about. Liz | :16:12. | :16:17. | |
Truss, and do very much. -- thank you very much. | :16:18. | :16:19. | |
Now ironically, while we discuss all this, the referendum polls have | :16:20. | :16:22. | |
You never have any idea of how much weight to put | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
on these things now, but a phone poll in | :16:27. | :16:28. | |
the Evening Standard tonight put Remain on 55%, Leave on 37%. | :16:29. | :16:30. | |
Do they think something has happened or are they dismissing this? | :16:31. | :16:43. | |
Officially there is no display since complacency in Number Ten and the | :16:44. | :16:49. | |
prime minister's director of Communications is going to take a | :16:50. | :16:52. | |
sabbatical and work for the campaign but in private, senior Tories are | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
saying that they think the referendum is moving the way of In. | :16:58. | :17:04. | |
Also, there was a poll in the daily Telegraph yesterday commissioned by | :17:05. | :17:07. | |
Lynton Crosby who ran the election campaign for the Tories last year | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
and he wrote a piece saying that time was running out for the Brexit | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
campaign. But when we talk about polls, we need to have a health | :17:17. | :17:19. | |
warning because they go down and they go up and they can be wrong. | :17:20. | :17:22. | |
But in private, the Tories are saying that they are saying that | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
they hope that they can finally defeat the Conservative Eurosceptic | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
right that they say it has bedevilled the party with the vision | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
for the last quarter of a party. But Suzanne Evans will say that the | :17:37. | :17:39. | |
remains side is a complacent and out of touch campaign, and that they | :17:40. | :17:47. | |
should talk to Heartland MPs, who have an ease about the referendum. | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
The broad thrust of the campaign, what is happening? There is a letter | :17:52. | :17:59. | |
out tomorrow. What a surprise (!). Who would've thought? Michael | :18:00. | :18:01. | |
Bloomberg saying don't leave, it will risk the economy. Thank you | :18:02. | :18:02. | |
very much. Now we're joined in the studio | :18:03. | :18:04. | |
by Suzanne Evans from Vote Leave. Do you sense that the polls have | :18:05. | :18:12. | |
moved against you? Is that imagination or not? There is only | :18:13. | :18:15. | |
one poll that counts and that is the one when the ballot papers are | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
counted. We know that polls can be misleading, as we found out to our | :18:22. | :18:24. | |
cost in the general election. They say a week is a long time in | :18:25. | :18:30. | |
politics, 38 days is a chance to do a very positive, optimistic | :18:31. | :18:33. | |
campaign. And I am still very confident that we can win. We have | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
the arguments in our favour. They are pulling out the big guns. I had | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
to laugh at you laughing about another letter. I think the public | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
are getting bored of this tit for tat, these big business leaders | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
coming out to support remaining in the European Union. But what are | :18:50. | :18:52. | |
your tactics for the rest of the campaign? There is obviously been a | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
debate about how far you should push the migration issue and it is quite | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
clear that it is an area of huge public concern and clear that you | :19:01. | :19:03. | |
have more options outside the EU than inside the EU on what to do | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
with migration. Absolutely. The Queen's Speech, they were talking | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
about the security of the British people, securing our borders and | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
making sure that wages rise and the welfare bill reduces. Well, you | :19:17. | :19:19. | |
cannot do that within the European Union because we have no control of | :19:20. | :19:26. | |
our borders. But are you going to make more of the immigration | :19:27. | :19:29. | |
argument? Because there has been a debate about how migration should | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
feature. Vote Leave is very much making the migration argument. But I | :19:35. | :19:40. | |
think also that we recognise that most people who are concerned about | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
migration, that is one of the motivating factors to vote to leave. | :19:45. | :19:47. | |
I do not think it is something that we need to do overkill on. As the | :19:48. | :19:54. | |
campaign banked on process things too much? There was a big argument | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
about the debate and Cameron was up against whoever, and a lot of people | :20:00. | :20:02. | |
thought that did not work for you, apart from looking a bit impetuous | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
it was just the wrong subject to be talking about. I think the TV | :20:08. | :20:10. | |
debates will possibly be a game changer and that is why I am saying | :20:11. | :20:13. | |
we're certainly not given up yet. The government should be complacent. | :20:14. | :20:18. | |
I think that if you look around what is happening, the U-turns we have | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
had on academies and junior doctors today, on child refugees, they seem | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
to be bending over backwards to make sure they do not do anything to | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
upset the Remain campaign. And the TV campaigns could be -- the TV | :20:33. | :20:38. | |
debates could be a game changer and I am looking forward to | :20:39. | :20:40. | |
debates could be a game changer and has been another debate on your site | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
about whether there is too much of one two individuals, | :20:46. | :20:46. | |
about whether there is too much of Boris Johnson. Do you think that | :20:47. | :20:47. | |
there has been too much Boris Johnson. Do you think that | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
one or two and needs to be broader front than Boris? We don't put | :20:53. | :20:58. | |
people forward in isolation. We know that Boris is one of the most | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
trusted people in the EU -- on the EU, and that is why he has been | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
front and centre. But there is room for other people and we have been | :21:07. | :21:09. | |
using others. But the media have not picked up on that because Boris is | :21:10. | :21:12. | |
the big celebrity, if you like, but I heard Andrea Leslie and speak | :21:13. | :21:20. | |
yesterday about how the EU threatens our energy security. We know that | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
our energy bills have tripled because of these tariffs and levies | :21:26. | :21:26. | |
imposed by the EU. because of these tariffs and levies | :21:27. | :21:32. | |
Cleverly was in, talking because of these tariffs and levies | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
EU tariffs outside the European Union keep poorer African farmers | :21:38. | :21:39. | |
poor. Either Union keep poorer African farmers | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
cares about the developing world trade, | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
cares about the developing world Farage said that the referendum may | :21:50. | :21:50. | |
not end the matter. Farage said that the referendum may | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
it was close, it would be unfinished business by a long | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
it was close, it would be unfinished view? I think in the short term, the | :22:01. | :22:04. | |
referendum is going to decide the matter. I have always felt that | :22:05. | :22:07. | |
referendum is going to decide the we vote to remain, then the European | :22:08. | :22:15. | |
Union, based on past behaviour will take that on a mandate to push | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
forward with whatever it wants. And any future | :22:21. | :22:22. | |
forward with whatever it wants. And Cameron or whoever it might | :22:23. | :22:22. | |
forward with whatever it wants. And there is a point where we want to | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
say no to the EU, they will turn around and say, I'm sorry Mr Prime | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
Minister, or Mrs prime minister, your people voted | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
Minister, or Mrs prime minister, do not have a mandate. But it cannot | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
come back in five years, can it? What is it, ten, 20, 30 years? If on | :22:41. | :22:43. | |
June the 4th, the What is it, ten, 20, 30 years? If on | :22:44. | :22:46. | |
moves forward with a proposal for will be upset and realise they have | :22:47. | :22:56. | |
been hoodwinked. If Turkey is fast-track entry, I think it is | :22:57. | :22:57. | |
going to come around one that you might hear | :22:58. | :23:04. | |
a lot more about. It voted unanimously | :23:05. | :23:07. | |
for something called the Justice Against Sponsors | :23:08. | :23:09. | |
of Terrorism Act. Normal practice is | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
that countries can't be sued in the courts | :23:15. | :23:17. | |
of other countries. Countries have sovereign immunity, | :23:18. | :23:19. | |
which for example, stops you suing the US government over here, | :23:20. | :23:22. | |
for contributing to climate change. The Senate Bill removes sovereign | :23:23. | :23:26. | |
immunity in cases where nations have been involved in | :23:27. | :23:29. | |
terrorism on US soil. The immediate significance | :23:30. | :23:40. | |
is to allow the families of victims of 9/11 to sue the Saudi | :23:41. | :23:42. | |
government in the US for any role Saudi officials might | :23:43. | :23:44. | |
have played in the attacks. But the Bill opens up a can of worms | :23:45. | :23:47. | |
in international law. President Obama doesn't like it, | :23:48. | :23:51. | |
as it invites other countries It also threatens | :23:52. | :23:53. | |
US-Saudi relations. It's not clear how | :23:54. | :23:55. | |
the bill will fare. However, the 9/11 families have | :23:56. | :23:57. | |
already chalked up one victory - President Obama has said | :23:58. | :24:00. | |
he will release 28 redacted pages of the official commission | :24:01. | :24:02. | |
into the World Trade Centre attacks that will open up questions | :24:03. | :24:05. | |
about Saudi involvement. Joining me now from Washington DC | :24:06. | :24:11. | |
is Terry Strada, the wife of 9/11 victim Tom Strada and now chair | :24:12. | :24:17. | |
of 9/11 Families Survivors United Good evening to you. Thank you for | :24:18. | :24:30. | |
joining us. Why do you want the right to sue the Saudi government? | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
Because we want to hold them accountable. We want to hold the | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
people that were behind, financing and aiding and abetting terrorists | :24:42. | :24:45. | |
here, accountable in a court of law. We want justice for the murder of | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
our loved ones. And in your suspicion, how high up do you think | :24:52. | :24:57. | |
Saudi complicity might have gone? Well, we have evidence that the | :24:58. | :25:00. | |
Saudis were definitely involved. Also within these 28 ages that you | :25:01. | :25:06. | |
spoke of, it points the finger at Saudi Arabia. How far it goes | :25:07. | :25:11. | |
exactly, I'm not sure, but that is a good reason to bring it into a court | :25:12. | :25:21. | |
of law and let the investigation continue. They did not get to fully | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
investigate the Saudi involvement. We need to know how far up the | :25:26. | :25:29. | |
scores. And one of the people, John Leeman, has seen the pages and has | :25:30. | :25:35. | |
broken ranks and talked about this and he said that he saw no evidence | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
that the Saudi government as an institution was involved in the | :25:40. | :25:42. | |
attacks. So I am wondering whether the Saudi government is the right | :25:43. | :25:46. | |
target or whether it is the individuals, employees of the Saudi | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
government, who should be the appropriate target of legal action. | :25:52. | :25:58. | |
OK, so who was directing those employees of the Saudi Arabian | :25:59. | :26:00. | |
government to carry out the attacks? I think we need to further the | :26:01. | :26:04. | |
investigation. I think we need to look into it further than we have | :26:05. | :26:08. | |
and I think we need to let the evidence that we have collected | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
against the Saudis into a courtroom so that we can finally see, and let | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
everyone see what we know, which is that the Saudis were involved in | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
9/11. The Saudis will not recognise American courts' writes to tell them | :26:23. | :26:26. | |
to pay fines or civil penalties or whatever. So what do you think will | :26:27. | :26:32. | |
happen? If you go to a US court and win a victory against the Saudi | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
government, what is the outcome? What are you looking for? We are | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
looking for accountability and we are looking to hold them accountable | :26:41. | :26:44. | |
for the role that they played in murdering 3000 people on American | :26:45. | :26:47. | |
soil. It was the worst terrorist attack in America and it was a | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
horrific attack. We want to hold them accountable because if we do, | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
then they will not continue funding terrorism and we will not continue | :26:56. | :27:01. | |
to seek the rise of Isis and what it is doing across the world. It is | :27:02. | :27:06. | |
time to make the Saudis on up to the role they play in funding terrorist | :27:07. | :27:12. | |
activities and aiding and abetting the hijackers while they were here | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
in this country. If we do not hold them accountable, they will not | :27:18. | :27:19. | |
stop. The biggest thing I am concerned about is our future and | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
how do we prevent our future from terrorism. First of all, we have to | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
hold people accountable for 9/11 and we need to know the full truth | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
before we can never really protect ourselves going forward. What do you | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
think of the legal argument? Clearly President Obama is not keen on this | :27:36. | :27:41. | |
idea. The legal I demons around sovereign immunity, I don't know if | :27:42. | :27:45. | |
you can hear me but sovereign immunity, that it sets a precedent | :27:46. | :27:48. | |
that other nations will then want to sue the US? Have we lost to? I lost | :27:49. | :27:56. | |
it just for a second. I am interested in the legal argument, | :27:57. | :27:59. | |
whether there is weight in the President's legal argument that | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
other nations will then start suing America? Iraqis could start suing | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
Americans in Iraqi courts. Le Bataclan? Absently not. -- will that | :28:08. | :28:18. | |
happen? Absolutely not. Within our sovereign immunity laws, there is an | :28:19. | :28:23. | |
exception that you can hold people accountable for acts of terrorism. | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
That has been misinterpreted by the court. We are trying to fix that | :28:27. | :28:33. | |
issue with the Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act, to hold | :28:34. | :28:40. | |
people that aid and abet terrorism on American soil that happens to | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
injure or hurt Americans. It does not change what other countries can | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
and cannot do. They are entitled to have whatever laws they want, | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
whether we have this bill or not. Think is much. People will be | :28:55. | :28:57. | |
watching this great interest. Thank you very much. | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
Sit back now, and prepare for a feast. | :29:02. | :29:03. | |
And I'm not talking about lingiuni with spicy tomato sauce and mussels. | :29:04. | :29:05. | |
No, a major new art exhibition has just opened its doors in London. | :29:06. | :29:09. | |
It brings together two greats of the art world, | :29:10. | :29:11. | |
And Kirsty Wark got to join them for a sneak preview. | :29:12. | :29:23. | |
They were once the enfants terribles of art world, | :29:24. | :29:25. | |
whose work had the power to cause shock and outrage as well | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
Now, Jeff Koons and Damien Hirst are giants of modern art. | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
Their work sells for millions, and they've come together at Damien | :29:34. | :29:40. | |
Hirst's new gallery in Newport Street in London's Vauxhall, | :29:41. | :29:42. | |
for a free exhibition of Jeff Koons' art. | :29:43. | :29:49. | |
It's the first show of Jeff Koons work in this country | :29:50. | :29:51. | |
since 2009, and it comes from Damien Hirst's own collection. | :29:52. | :29:58. | |
They curated the exhibition together, but this is the moment | :29:59. | :30:12. | |
In the first gallery are some of his early | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
ready-made works, inspired by his hero, Marcel Duchamp. | :30:17. | :30:18. | |
Hirst has been a huge fan of Koons' work since his student days. | :30:19. | :30:33. | |
And now he's able to buy just about anything he wants. | :30:34. | :30:39. | |
That was the piece I bought from Larry, the first piece. | :30:40. | :30:46. | |
In 2013, Koons broke the record for the most expensive work | :30:47. | :30:54. | |
monkey, fetched more than $58 million. | :30:55. | :31:06. | |
It feels like you couldn't really do the show without it. | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
And as if you've built this room for it! | :31:11. | :31:12. | |
The surface is cast in stainless steel. | :31:13. | :31:14. | |
Yeah, I've got no idea how you achieved that, because there's | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
always a little ripple in the reflection, | :31:19. | :31:20. | |
because the reflection is always so pure. | :31:21. | :31:22. | |
One room is not for the faint-hearted. | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
When did you get these pieces, Damien? | :31:28. | :31:29. | |
While the huge bowl of eggs symbolises creation | :31:30. | :31:34. | |
and birth, the other images are still controversial. | :31:35. | :31:42. | |
starring Ilona Staller, better known by | :31:43. | :31:45. | |
# Ah, love to love you, baby... # | :31:46. | :31:58. | |
I fell in love with her for who she was, exactly the person, | :31:59. | :32:05. | |
but it ended up it did not work out, so it was really about acceptance. | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
# Ah, love to love you, baby... # | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
When I first saw it I was like, he's lost it. | :32:15. | :32:17. | |
I just thought, why would you want to go that far? | :32:18. | :32:24. | |
And then afterwards, a couple of years later, I was like, | :32:25. | :32:27. | |
For a while, they were my favourite pieces. | :32:28. | :32:45. | |
Damien, how old will you. Can you remember when you first saw Jeff's | :32:46. | :32:54. | |
work? I was a student, so the early 80s, maybe 85. I saw it in the | :32:55. | :32:59. | |
visage Gallery in the New York Cammack now show, in 86 or 87. | :33:00. | :33:11. | |
Tutors didn't like it,. And with the New York now show, they just said, | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
that isn't art. I liked it because it was totally against what my | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
tutors believed, and so simple and easy. Did you think you would end up | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
being one of Jeff Koons' major collectors of art? Never. I looked | :33:27. | :33:32. | |
at the work at the time, and I felt I could never possess anything like | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
that. To be in a position where you can... I have Jeff 's Mac work in my | :33:37. | :33:45. | |
house, a little piece by the TV, so I end up not looking at the TV and | :33:46. | :33:50. | |
looking at the peace instead! When we use first aware of Damien's work? | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
We were at an exhibition together in Germany. This would have been around | :33:56. | :34:04. | |
1991. When you did the puppy. The giant puppy made out of flowers. We | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
spent time together. Our families hung out. Damien McBride father, and | :34:11. | :34:15. | |
my mum was there. I know Damien's mother. It was wonderful that we | :34:16. | :34:22. | |
spent time together in this small German city, and that's where we | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
befriended each other. When you started collecting Jeff's work, you | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
were developing as an artist as Jeff was also developing as an artist. Is | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
that one of the reasons why you wanted to collect? I'd been selling | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
work and I had some money coming in, so I felt I could justify buying | :34:42. | :34:46. | |
things that I'd always loved. One of the first pieces I bought was the | :34:47. | :34:53. | |
hoover downstairs. I said to Larry, who has a gallery in New York, how | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
much is that? I said, will it go up in value? He said, if you are buying | :34:59. | :35:05. | |
it for that reason, don't buy it! Damien, you have the space, and you | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
decided you would show Jeff's work. Why was it important to put Jeff's | :35:11. | :35:16. | |
work together? I always thought I wanted to do an exhibition of Jeff's | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
work. He's a difficult artist to collect because you want one of | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
everything. It's quite a commitment. I always thought I would love to | :35:27. | :35:31. | |
have enough to do a really great show. There's a few pieces I haven't | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
got, one of the ones I always wanted was one of the wooden pieces, and a | :35:37. | :35:44. | |
ceramic peaks -- surround it peace. I don't feel like anything is | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
missing. It feels absolutely complete, from entering with the | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
first inflatable flowers, to ending here with an elephant. Do you see | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
your life flashing before you? I see a creative life. Working with | :36:00. | :36:07. | |
objects, working with metaphor. What I really find important in this | :36:08. | :36:09. | |
exhibition is the friendship with Damien. That is what is really | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
important to me, that Damien would collect my work. This interaction is | :36:15. | :36:20. | |
what I really walk away with. With Jeff's work, I think the word is | :36:21. | :36:28. | |
celebration. I'm a bit more prone to darkness here and there, but I think | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
art in itself, even if you are making something negative, it is a | :36:34. | :36:38. | |
positive thought. It's difficult for someone to come in here and not | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
absolutely love it. When you see kids in a Koons exhibition, they are | :36:44. | :36:50. | |
just running round, loving it. Right now, we are sitting in front of | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
Play-Doh were one of your biggest and heaviest works that Damien has. | :36:56. | :37:03. | |
Why did you buy this piece of work? When I saw it, it seems to be the | :37:04. | :37:07. | |
basis of all art. It seemed to say everything. I have a young son, and | :37:08. | :37:16. | |
he made a mound of Play-Doh. I was looking elsewhere, and he said, dad. | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
I turned, and he had the mound right here. And he said, there you go. | :37:21. | :37:28. | |
That was the beginning of it. You spoke earlier about the fact that | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
your work seems more onto mystic than Damien's. Damien, you said your | :37:33. | :37:40. | |
work seems darker. But this is the ultimate dark object. It is all | :37:41. | :37:48. | |
about semantics. I had Elephant on my desk, and I remember looking at | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
it and thinking that it had the same quality as the diamond skull has, it | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
looks shiny and bright, but it looks like you can pop it with a pin. | :37:59. | :38:07. | |
That's... It's made of material, but it is lasting 6000 years and can't | :38:08. | :38:12. | |
tame. The casting is a 6000 -year-old process. What do you see | :38:13. | :38:20. | |
in each other? What I love about your work, or Jeff, is that he is a | :38:21. | :38:28. | |
contemporary, he is alive today. You can admire him from afar, but it is | :38:29. | :38:34. | |
inspirational to see that somebody living today is making art that is | :38:35. | :38:39. | |
on a par with all those dead guys. When whenever I think about my own | :38:40. | :38:45. | |
work, I know my own problems and weaknesses and doubts. You go | :38:46. | :38:49. | |
through them all to end up with good work. When I look at your work, I | :38:50. | :38:54. | |
can't see any of it. I have to remind myself that you are getting | :38:55. | :38:59. | |
these beautifully finished objects. Tell him that you are doubtful | :39:00. | :39:05. | |
sometimes! What I enjoy about Damien's work is its power. It is | :39:06. | :39:10. | |
really visually... There is a strength there, which is always very | :39:11. | :39:17. | |
confrontational in its power. The type of images, objects, things that | :39:18. | :39:24. | |
are brought together, are extremely well thought out, construct it. | :39:25. | :39:31. | |
There's a natural quality about it. Even though they are different | :39:32. | :39:34. | |
things, they unify themselves so well. It's just an amazing intellect | :39:35. | :39:42. | |
and thought. This idea of a discussion about power and control, | :39:43. | :39:48. | |
and giving up control. I think that is extremely strong in | :39:49. | :39:51. | |
and giving up control. I think that work. When I look at the butterflies | :39:52. | :39:54. | |
that are painted into the surface, it is a profound discourse. You both | :39:55. | :40:00. | |
have attracted a lot of attention because of the vast amount of money | :40:01. | :40:10. | |
have attracted a lot of attention think, in a way, that sometimes | :40:11. | :40:13. | |
obscures your art? I think that money can secure | :40:14. | :40:16. | |
obscures your art? I think that in England. People think | :40:17. | :40:19. | |
obscures your art? I think that artists need to be poor, or you | :40:20. | :40:24. | |
cannot have a focus of money. When I made some money, it changed | :40:25. | :40:29. | |
everything for me. I notice that businessmen started taking me | :40:30. | :40:33. | |
seriously. The audience is changed. Money is a huge part of my life. I | :40:34. | :40:39. | |
always thought it was is important as love or death. It's something you | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
need to understand and respect. It shouldn't be | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
need to understand and respect. It word. Once you have made the art and | :40:50. | :40:51. | |
someone has bought it, word. Once you have made the art and | :40:52. | :40:57. | |
it as a commodity rather than something they love? I was brought | :40:58. | :41:00. | |
up to be self-reliant. I would sell drinks on golf courses, and maybe | :41:01. | :41:07. | |
the ninth hole is a way make money, or I | :41:08. | :41:13. | |
wrapping paper and chocolates. I enjoyed the | :41:14. | :41:15. | |
wrapping paper and chocolates. I to be part of a dialogue with people | :41:16. | :41:24. | |
like war hole or Salvador Dali, or Picasso or Leonardo. To be in a | :41:25. | :41:32. | |
dialogue with the group. Here to be involved with Damien. It's an | :41:33. | :41:34. | |
international discourse, and there international discourse, and there | :41:35. | :41:37. | |
are hundreds of thousands of other people we are connected to, and we | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
are having a dialogue people we are connected to, and we | :41:41. | :41:43. | |
talking about art and how it's changed. It's changed my life and | :41:44. | :41:49. | |
made my life more vast than it would have been if I didn't get involved | :41:50. | :41:55. | |
in this dialogue. People are supportive to that ongoing dialogue, | :41:56. | :42:00. | |
hopefully it's just a symbol that you are contributing in some way. | :42:01. | :42:03. | |
Thank you both very much indeed for this interview. Thank you. | :42:04. | :42:10. | |
That exhibition is at the Newport Street Gallery in London, | :42:11. | :42:12. | |
and you can watch a longer version of that interview | :42:13. | :42:16. |