09/06/2016 Newsnight


Andy Burnham admits that Remain could lose the EU referendum, and the sister of the Eritrean man accused of people smuggling claims his innocence.

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Tonight exclusively on Newsnight a senior Labour figure


tells us he fears Remain is going to lose the referendum.


I think here we are, two weeks away from the very real


prospect that Britain will vote for isolation.


We report on serious concerns in Labour that the party's elite


is failing to engage with the issues that matter to grass


And I'll be talking to the Shadow Work


She was very sweet, she was listing to me, but I don't think I was


making any progress. -- listening. We've sent two campaigners


for Vote Leave and Remain The sister of the Eritrean man


extradited to face human trafficking charges after a major


British security operation insists her brother is a victim


of mistaken identity. He's not a human trafficker, I'm


sure of that. He is my brother. A damning report on the UVF pub


massacre in Loughinisland 22 years ago finds there was significant


collusion between the killers We speak to the solicitor


for the justice campaign. The official White House


photographer who has been with the President every step


of the way. I said to myself, if he ever became


president, this is a picture you will never see again.


Newsnight tonight reveals the deep anxieties of a senior Labour figure


that the party is not getting the message out to labour


voters to back Remain, and indeed that the message


being sent down from the Labour elite is out of tune


The former shadow home secretary Andy Burnham has told this programme


that he has serious concerns that the country will vote to leave


the EU, and that if that happened it could trigger a domino effect


which could lead to the breakup of the United Kingdom.


Here's our political editor Nick Watt.


Blink and you probably missed it, the once mighty Labour machine has


been somewhat underpowered during this historic moment in modern


British politics. Nothing can go wrong. You would have to be on a


very long holiday to a distant galaxy to Misty blue on blue


shelling that is shaping perceptions of this referendum. -- to miss. Are


we missing the rupture between red and red, the hidden story of this


campaign which might do more to decide the result? The working man


is not going to prosper when we come out, I don't think, because our


largest market will turn our back. We seem to be a country that is open


to anything, we have not got our own identity any more. Andy Burnham


received a mixed reception from voters on the streets of Manchester,


as once natural Labour supporters say they have abandoned the party in


favour of Ukip and now is about getting out of the European Union.


These encounters illustrated one of his main themes, there is a


disconnect between the elite and grassroots voters. And that explains


why this referendum is now so close. We've definitely been too much


Hampstead and not enough Hull in recent times, and we need to change


that. Are you concerned that the referendum could be slipping away?


Yes. Here we are, two weeks away from the very real prospect that


Britain will vote for isolation, it would be isolation. I think it would


have a profound effect on our national life. The fragmentation


that will come and the fear and division, those are the things that


the terrorists could not great with our bombs, but we will have a


situation where society becomes more divided. If this decision is taken,


the dominoes will start to fall and it won't just be the EU that breaks


up, it will be Britain, as well. The mismatch between Labour activists


and wider supporters has been borne out by polls. One found 27% of


Labour supporters want to leave the EU, and another found a just 10% of


Labour members favour Brexit. Immigration is what they tend to


break as one of the biggest problems, the voters, and that is


where they are most at odds with the party they have traditionally voted


for and on that issue that they hear the Leave campaign and the Brexit


politicians really resonating with them. Andy Burnham is planning to


relocate his political career entirely to the North West, as the


new mayor of greater Manchester to repair relations with voters who


should be Labour's natural supporters. He wants to avoid a


repeat of the fate suffered by the party in Scotland after the


independence referendum. There is a parallel between the Scottish


referendum and what happens to Labour after it and the European


referendum, there is, quite a clear parallel. Labour could be threatened


afterwards. If we are perceived not to be listening to the concerns that


people have expressed. Another challenge for Labour, divisions


between former ministers such as Andy Burnham and their leader Jeremy


Corbyn. His support for the EU is not exactly heartfelt. Ukip hopes to


exploit these divisions as the party attempts to build on its recent


modest success in the North West. You have a leader of the Labour


Party who clearly is on the record as being anti-EU, and Jeremy Corbyn


is now a hostage of the Parliamentary Labour Party. He


stands there defending the right for us to be in the EU, and they will


pay a price for that after the referendum. But there are some


hopeful lines for Labour, Andy Burnham met if you can through


spirits in Manchester bash hopeful signs. You are definitely in? Yes.


I'm a small business, and you want to be international and trade with


other countries. For the moment, Andy Burnham is focusing on winning


back former members of the Labour tribe by spelling out the benefits


of the EU, he hopes the experience of his father who benefited from EU


free movement rules to find work in Germany after missing his job, we'll


win over the sceptics. That is it is established in the national psyche,


the Alfie design pattern generation, they left to find work elsewhere, at


additional industry was being removed by Margaret Thatcher, and


that is remembered well in the North West. -- as traditional industry. If


it was good enough for us back then, why is it not good enough for others


now? Brexit will limit the life chances of today's generation,


because if times get tough again, they won't be able to find work


elsewhere as easily as we did in the past. Reaching out to an iconic


1980s television series shows the scale of Labour's challenging


reconnecting with its former grassroots supporters. Calmer waters


are likely to remain a long way off regardless of the referendum result.


Well, joining me now is Owen Smith - the Shadow Work


You heard what Andy Burnham had to say, a real prospect of isolation.


Do you agree? It is balanced on a knife edge at it is possible it


could go either way. It has clearly got more difficult for those of us


who believe we should be remaining to make the case in recent weeks,


and the Leave campaign have had the mental, but Andy said what we have


got to emphasise -- have had the momentum. Working people need to


stay because they will be worse off if we leave. He recognises there is


a disconnect between the Labour elite at Westminster and what


working-class Labour supporters are fearful. I'm not sure that is right.


70% of Labour supporters, Labour voters, are in favour of staying in,


so there is actually quite a clear correlation between our position of


being in and what pollsters have been told, but on immigration and


other things, there are clearly massive worries around the country.


These worries people have come at you have not sufficiently reassured


people about, that is quite clear. I do agree. You have not taken on


immigration properly. Immigration is something people worry about, but we


are hearing that people are worried about jobs and security and the


nature of the work they have and wages, and immigration has become


something which sits alongside all of those things, it is bound up with


a sense of loss and decline, especially in working-class former


industrial areas and we have got to be doing more to speak to those


people because they are our people. John Mann, MP of yours, he has


announced that he backs the Leave campaign, he says it is not


representing working-class interests and he says people are terrified to


talk about immigration, and he says there is a mismatch between the


things that matter to you and the people in the North West. I come


from Pontypridd and directly sent a South Wales working-class


constituency and I know the people I represent -- and I represent. I


think John Mann is completely wrong about this. For my people in my


constituency, and people in Andy's constituency, they will be worse off


if we leave the European Union, we will have less tax revenue and we


will see a hard right wing Tory government led by nincompoops like


Boris Johnson taking money away from my constituency. I would suggest to


you, what John Mann says, what kind of country we want to live in in 20


years' time, do we want an extra ten within people living here? He says


these are the concerns of working class people and you are dismissive


of these fears. I said I'm not dismissive of people regarding


immigration and I'd do not think we have done enough to address that


issue. -- I do not think. There is a genuine need for us to listen to


what people are saying, they want us to do something about it, but we


should not cut off our noses to spite our face. What is Jeremy


Corbyn going to say about the referendum? He is going to say that


we hear people's concerns about what immigration does in terms of


depressing wages and causing problems in communities, but we have


got to express the truth of the complexity, if we had not had


immigration we would not have had any bounce back in our economy, and


we would not have the NHS... Is that not patronising to your voters? The


way in which they are being patronised is being sold a simple


lie by the Brexit campaign, which is if you leave we will be better off


and we will sort out immigration. You do not hold with Andy Burnham's


view that the lesson in the Scottish referendum is one that you should


take because you are very much in peril? Look at what happened to


Labour after the election and the referendum. I do not think that an


allergy is right, the fact is, all parties are split, the Tories are


split on this -- I don't think that an allergy is right. We need to work


to raid saying those voters after the election, but I go back to the


central point, we have got to be clear, Labour collectively, a few


people apart, are in favour of staying in because for those


workers, even if they have concerns about immigration, they will be


worse off, they and their families, if we leave. What happens when you


have Labour voters who voted to leave, are they not your people? Of


course they are. Whichever way people vote, in this election. We


have got to represent all of these people, but we have also got to be


leaders and our view as leaders of the Labour movement in this country,


trade unions and people like me, people will be better off, ordinary


working people will be better off if we stay in the EU and they will be


financially disadvantaged, we will have another recession, a hard right


wing Tory government making more cuts. They will scrap workers'


rights and make cuts in our communities and we will lose out,


not them. You have a different agenda but you on the same side as


the Tories in this. Not half of them. What will you say to all the


Labour supporters of yours in the North East, with Ukip around, what


do you say to them about their views? We will say that we have


heard loud and clear, whichever way the vote goes, that people have deep


concerns about immigration and concerns about the fact that


post-industrial bits of Britain, are not very well, we need an active


government, and active strategy, putting jobs back into the divinity,


and if Labour does not do that, no one is going to. -- into the


community. Thanks for joining us. Business leaders have been


in the forefront of the EU debate, on both sides of the divide,


but now the universities, who've been drowned out,


are upping the volume. The difference is they are all


singing from the same hymn sheet, Chris Cook has had sight of a report


they're publishing tomorrow. This is a report focusing on the


contribution of the European Union's research budgets to UK universities.


British universities do for nominally well, we get around one in


?7 that the EU spends on research in the whole of the EU, and that


supports 19,000 jobs, but to be clear, universities get a lot of


money, not just on research, but from foreign students, EU students,


and they do not want to leave, for mercenary reasons, you might think,


but also for other reasons, they are very keen on international


collaboration in research which they think is a key thing that the EU


enables. Will we hear more from universities?


We will not only hear more, we will see something we have not seen


before, it is common universities to make pitches to the country and to


Westminster, no university leaders are making a play to get their own


staff and students to vote for Remain. Appealing to their captive


photos. There are millions of students disproportionately young,


well-educated, classic Remain quotas and the universities are desperate


to mobilise them. The principal of Edinburgh has written to his


students basically recommending a Remain vote. The Vice Chancellor of


Exeter has done the same in weaker language. I know at least three


other vice Chancellors working with their councils on how far it is


appropriate for them to go but they are desperate and next week we will


see more from the chancellors. Chris Cook, thank you very much.


Now the art of persuasion is very important in a Referendum,


so we have deployed a passionate advocate on each side of the debate,


to take their message into if not quite into the enemy camp then


to areas where the majority appears to be against them.


Film-maker Warwick Harrington took Roland Rudd, from Business


into Europe, to Wolverhampton, and the former spokeswoman


for the UK Independence Party Suzanne Burns


I think we are going to Hampstead because I'm throwing myself into


Why do you think Hampstead is so Europhile?


I don't know Hampstead terribly well but I


am guessing there are people there who are quite wealthy, has prices


The sort of people who probably have not felt


the impact of mass uncontrolled immigration


the kind of jobs where people's wages are being forced down.


Wolverhampton is a great place to go to because it


big majority for Out, there is real concern


about immigration and perhaps not necessarily an


understanding of just how important economically


understanding of just how important economically it is for people in


It's amazing being here because 30 years ago, I


started as a journalist at the Express and Star and recently they


had a very interesting poll saying that 80% favoured Brexit.


This was one of the strongest entries in the world


once, why can't we be like that again?


I don't really like Nigel Farage but what he


says makes sense, I watched last night and I watched David Cameron,


Nigel Farage is passionate about this country.


Lately I'm feeling what will happen to my


She wants a bigger house, she can't get one.


No disrespect to the families who are


coming in from Europe, you're welcome but you have to step


let them step back and look after the kids In this country first.


One is, there have been a lot of jobs created recently and


about nine out of ten of those jobs have been


people living here, so


It actually feels quite at home, my favourite French cafe chain


there and a fabulous homeware store that I use there.


I just think I want to be able to vote in to power my MPs to make


the laws and if I don't like it I can vote


them out but those commissioners, you can't get rid of them.


Are you feeling you are not living in a


I don't have a problem with immigration, I just


It means that from 28 other countries...


And if it was not for the fact that we have


East European immigrants, pouring into this country, as you say, then


the construction industry would collapse.


About whether we should stay in or out.


If we leave, we end up with a recession.


That is what the governor of the Bank of England says.


I'll give you a quick example, right?


They are doing a big plant here - they are.


And by the end of this year, there will be 1600


jobs in Wolverhampton and 30,000 jobs in the whole of the West


Never mind that, it's all about people who got no skills or


I've got no skills, no qualifications, no nothing.


If it was just about us, we would probably vote to stay, we're


thinking of our kids, we are struggling to get the deposit for a


house and we've got good jobs and I don't want that for my children. I


don't want them to be, they've got good jobs but Bristol can't afford a


house. Almost everyone we have spoken to who is that they will vote


Out has mentioned house prices, has that surprised you? Per house prices


hasn't surprised me, what surprises me is that there is a school of


thought that somehow if house prices crash that could somehow be good


news because their kids can get onto the housing ladder and they can sort


out later. One of the main reasons I am voting


to leave is because of the huge democratic deficit of the EU. It


behaves like a dictatorship. Hi fine, but these are problems that we


can talk about and resolve. There are plenty of flaws in the current


UK democratic system. We can apply the same argumentation, then we've


got to pack in our passports and it is the argument, making the argument


flawed because we have a non-elected House of Lords.


Argue for staying in all voting out? Out. Any reason why? Immigration.


Refugees is different but you've got people coming to this country who


are getting benefits and have never paid anything and they can't speak


English... I agree but if you come here and you have to work for four


years before you get any benefits, that's better. What have you learned


today? That immigration is a major issue, the sense of unfairness is


really worrying people. They probably will vote to stay in if it


means that we can be economically better off but they want to see the


benefits of the single market much more evenly distributed. What


shocked me was the passion from one side and the other was quite rare to


find. We managed to find you some people to talk to but the passion


was rare. Do you think we live in a democracy? Yes. She was sweet and


listened and was smiling but I don't think I was making any headway!


Nothing more is going to happen. OK! LAUGHTER


The Persuaders! Last night on Newsnight we revealed


doubts that the Eritrean man extradited from Sudan to Italy


to face human trafficking charges relating to thousands of migrants,


and possible homicide charges, is actually Mered Medhane,


the man the security A man with a similar name appears to


have been arrested in this place. The sister of the man being held


who lives in Norway has today insisted her brother is a victim


of mistaken identity and that he just happens


to have the same first name. Who really is this man? What we know


is that he has been extradited from Sudan to Italy, authorities from


their belief he is a people smuggling boss called Mered


Medhanie, others say they've got the wrong man and they have actually


picked up an innocent Eritrean refugee. Those making the case


include the sister of the man arrested, who says that she


recognises him as her brother whom she has been living with in


Khartoum. You couldn't be mistaken, it is definitely your brother? Yeah,


it's definitely my brother. I'm not mistaken because I have been looking


for him for two weeks, yesterday, all of a sudden, he came on the


Internet as a human trafficker. He is not human trafficker. I'm sure of


them, it's my brother. When was the first moment you realised that he


had been arrested? I saw it on Facebook. What was your reaction? I


was going crazy, I'm worried sick. Because the photo I saw yesterday,


it is disturbing, he looks awful! Her version of events does is


incredible. She says that her brother was arrested in Khartoum on


May 24, the same day that authorities say that they arrested a


man they believe is the notorious people smuggler -- smuggler, bed and


Madonna. She says she has not heard anything from her brothers on


Saturday. I have been searching for him two weeks. They told me there is


nobody of that name in prison. If they cautioned him he would say that


my sister Could police have mistaken the


refugee on the left on the right? We asked a world leading facial


recognition expert to compare these images with those of the man


arrested. In an ideal world it would have been nice to undertake a full


friends and review, make a proper comparison. I have been able to make


a preliminary review and look at these images in detail and I am of


the view that the person we believe to be the smuggler is not the person


we see in custody. Equally, the person we understand to be the


innocent party in this is most likely to be the person who is in


custody. The arrest was a joint operation between British, Italian


and Sudanese authorities. The sister of the arrested man wants answers


from the police. I want to say to the police


in England that they They should be investigating,


he's not a human trafficker, he's an innocent refugee


who arrived last year in Sudan. He doesn't do anything


about the smuggling or anything. The real smuggling kingpin is


accused of trafficking thousands of migrants across the Mediterranean to


Italy, hundreds are said to have died, this arrest was meant to be


one of the first big blows to the network behind the flow of people.


Authorities in Italy say they are now checking the identity of the man


they have. In Britain and the National Crime Agency says it is


still too early to comment on the claims but what was originally


touted as a major success is now looking increasingly dubious.


When two Ulster Volunteer Force gunmen burst into a packed bar


in Loughinisland in County Down as customers watched the Republic


of Ireland playing Italy in the World Cup in 1994,


they sprayed bullets indiscriminately, killing six men


Now 22 years later, after a long campaign for Justice


a second Ombudsman's report has concluded that there was significant


collusion by the security forces in the murders.


Among Dr Michael Maguire's damning findings was the revelation


that the murder squad that carried out the killings had been involved


in a number of other murders but had avoided arrest because the RUC's


Special Branch intelligence unit had withheld evidence from detectives


I'm joined now by the solicitor for the families, Niall Murphy.


What was the reaction of the families? We had a private briefing


yesterday with. The Maguire -- with doctor Maguire, the reaction was


that the families were euphoric, exoneration of a 22 year campaign, a


campaign conducted with dignity and perseverance, but the euphoria that


their suspicions had been confirmed by an official state, the office of


the police ombudsman, but it turns to one of outrage, their campaign


had been about truth recovery, but when they received the truth it was


a very difficult truth and a series of facts which were difficult to


come to terms with. Very damning finding regarding a number of


different counts for the police, and also the fact that Loyalist


paramilitaries were being employed as police informants. Who do you


think is responsible for the miscarriage of justice? Ultimate


responsibility must be in those in senior positions, this is the latest


report which joins a library of equally condemning reports from


Stevens, Savile, the silver and reports by the previous police


ombudsman, but this cannot gather dust on the shelf and there must be


accountability and that accountability must come from those


in senior positions who inserted the policy which allowed the grotesque


intelligence failings which manifested themselves in the


conclusion that collusion was a feature this atrocity. Do you think


the authorities know who committed these murders? I know for a fact


they know who committed these murders, it is laid out in the


report. The authorities knew who committed the murders within 24


hours. Is there the possibility that the case could be reopened? There


are difficulties and we would hope not to raise false hopes. A


prosecution to the criminal standard must be built on evidence, but the


problem is that far from securing and preserving evidence, the RUC


destroyed evidence as they came across it, nine out of 16 suspects


did not have their fingerprints, DNA horror to Mac -- DNA or hair samples


taken. They have three a la lovers and three boiler suits and three


sets of clubs and all the weapons used and the getaway car, the


largest exhibit they could have, but they destroyed the car within ten


months. The problem is the police failed to gather the evidence and


when they did they destroyed it. I wonder when the common station was


with the ombudsman, whether he had a view in this and whether anybody


will ever be brought to justice? -- when the conversation. The ombudsman


said this was an investigation characterised by indifference and


incompetence and neglect. He stated that the approach to inform a


handling was one of see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, and


this investigation did not have a chance because it did not want a


chance. The people that committed this atrocity had killed before and


they have the confidence that they were able to act with impunity to


commit this atrocity. These are facts which are laid out very


clearly, supported by original intelligence which has been viewed


by police ombudsman investigators and has informed these very strong


and robust conclusions which we see in the report. Thanks for joining


us. Pete Souza is not a household name


but you probably know his work. For the past eight years he's been


the chief official White House photographer recording


Barack Obama's presidency capturing not just


the man but also history. From intimate family moments


to drama in the situation room, and every single one of his images


is archived forever. We spoke to Pete Souza as both men's


tenure comes to an end. I started to photograph him in a way


that, if he ever became president, the pictures I was taking early


on would have some context. For instance, there's a picture


I made of him, we went to Russia, and there is a picture of him


when I was consciously He's walking around


Red Square, on a sidewalk, I was trying to show


that in the picture, that here is this US Senator walking


through Red Square and no one is paying


attention to him. I said to myself, if he ever became


president, this is a picture You can imagine, what it would be


like to have somebody pointing And certainly once


he became president I think it took him several months


to finally figure out that I was not going away,


and that this was going to be part of his life, there was going to be


this guy documenting his every move. The interesting thing about being


a White House photographer, Meaning, whether it is a serious


national security meeting, or a fun moment with a staff


person's child coming So in that context I observe him


in every aspect of his life When you add up his day,


and all the things I photograph, Someone in my office who kind


of monitors this said that I'd probably end up taking


at the end of eight years The ones that are the hardest


for me, I will say that when I'm photographing the president


consoling families, Especially after the shootings


where the emotions of I don't regret taking those


photographs but they I'm sure that I probably had tears


flowing down my cheek, just to think Time Magazine at the end


of his first term asked me to choose ten pictures


which represented my favourites that Because you need to show him


in all aspects of his life. I mean, sure, there are pictures


where he is interacting with little But I don't want people


to think that's all he does. What about anguishing


in the situation over Isis? So, for me, it is the body of work


which is important, and not saying, "This picture is the iconic picture


of the Obama administration". Tomorrow morning's front pages,


three headlines. Nice football fan zones are like ten open Bataclans,


that is a fear about terrorist attacks at Euro 2016. Finally, the


Financial Times, Bernie Sanders is close to backing Hillary Clinton.


Barack Obama went on television himself to endorse Hillary Clinton.


And finally tonight, Ed Sheeran is preparing


for a $20million legal action from two US songwriters.


They claim Sheeran's multi-million pound track 'photograph' copied


large sections of the song 'amazing' they wrote for X factor


# We made these memories for ourselves


# You came out of nowhere like lightening


# It's kind of amazing how you found me


It will be another marquee night, much cooler in the North East. Much


more cloud around, it


In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark.

Andy Burnham admits that Remain could lose the EU referendum, the sister of the Eritrean man accused of people smuggling claims his innocence, and there is an exclusive interview with President Obama's official photographer.

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