Browse content similar to 13/06/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Across the western world shock at the murder of 49 people at the Pulse | :00:11. | :00:23. | |
club in Orlando. In London vigils are being held for the dead and the | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
wounded but how did one man killed so many? Tonight the key figures in | :00:28. | :00:31. | |
American politics are reacting. We cannot continue to allow | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
thousands upon thousands of people to pour into our country, | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
many of whom have the same thought And with ten days to go to the key | :00:39. | :00:53. | |
decision, drug macro is on the road. I am about as far away from London | :00:54. | :00:59. | |
as you can be where local figures have their own views. We have | :01:00. | :01:05. | |
brought our very own referendum road trip to Glasgow to you the | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
passionate arguments driving the debate as it becomes increasingly | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
clear that the Scottish vote may be pivotal. | :01:14. | :01:24. | |
Good evening from Orlando, a city rocked to its core by the tragedy | :01:25. | :01:33. | |
that left 49 dead and 53 injured in the Pulse club behind me, a city | :01:34. | :01:37. | |
once synonymous with Disney World has been shattered by reality at its | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
most devastating and painful, tonight new details have emerged as | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
to how the gunman called 9/11 from the bottom of the club and pledged | :01:47. | :01:52. | |
allegiance to the leader of Isis. He was known to the FBI, yet it seems | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
able to buy firearms freely. President Obama says there is no | :01:58. | :02:03. | |
evidence that the gunman was directed by so-called Islamic State | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
but Donald Trump, this afternoon, said that if elected he would | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
suspend immigration from areas of the world with a proven history of | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
terrorism against the United States or their allies. We'll get into the | :02:15. | :02:16. | |
politics in a minute. Gabriel Gatehouse joins me now. | :02:17. | :02:26. | |
There was of course a huge element of, phobia in the choice of this | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
vibrant gay nightclub in downtown Orlando. The question, to what | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
extent was it terror or as you mentioned in your introduction | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
directed by the group calling itself Islamic State. We know of the claim | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
of membership in the 911 call, the question is, how much was it | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
directed, the FBI director today says he believes he was almost | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
certainly home - radicalised, here in the United States. He was born in | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
the United States. These are some other things still being questioned. | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
The other details we have had coming out today in forensics detail is | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
what actually happened inside the club on the night itself. You will | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
see some of pictures in the report that is just coming up you will find | :03:12. | :03:13. | |
distressing. It is Latino night at Pulse, | :03:14. | :03:16. | |
a buzzing gay nightclub in downtown By closing time, the dance | :03:17. | :03:19. | |
floor was nearly full. At two minutes past 2am, Omar Mateen | :03:20. | :03:38. | |
starts shooting into the crowd. An off-duty policeman working at the | :03:39. | :03:44. | |
club exchanges fire with the gunman. Eddie Justice texts his mother from | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
a bathroom inside the club. Mummy, I love you. In club, they shooting. At | :03:50. | :03:56. | |
nine minutes past 2am the club posts on its Facebook page, everyone get | :03:57. | :04:02. | |
out of Pulse club and keep running. Mr Garcia, a former DJ at the club, | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
was out with a group of friends including Mercedes Florez. Once we | :04:08. | :04:15. | |
knew this was real, everyone ducked to the floor. He was right next to | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
me. I had blood all over my arms. It was actually from him. The shooting | :04:22. | :04:31. | |
just continued and continued. As soon as it stopped, I kind of hurt | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
him reloading, I got up and run to one of the back doors. Amanda | :04:36. | :04:38. | |
records one final video on Snapchat. GUNFIRE | :04:39. | :04:51. | |
She and her best friend, Mercedes, later confirmed dead. Now, Omar | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
Mateen, armed with an assault rifle and handgun, begins to take | :04:57. | :05:02. | |
hostages. He calls 911, pleading allegiance to Islamic State and | :05:03. | :05:04. | |
makes a reference to the Boston Marathon bombings. 2:39am, still in | :05:05. | :05:12. | |
the bathroom, Eddie Justice sends another message to his mother. His | :05:13. | :05:19. | |
coming, I'm going to die. He too has since been confirmed as one of the | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
dead. At five-minute spot 5am police and SWAT team members moving. They | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
forced their way into the club with explosives and a battering ram. In | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
11 of his as exchange gunfire with the shooter, 30 hostages rescued. | :05:34. | :05:42. | |
5:48am, Orlando police to eat, we can confirm this as a mass casualty | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
situation. -- Orlando police tweet. At 5:53am Lees confirmed that the | :05:48. | :05:55. | |
shooter, Omar Mateen, is dead. -- police confirm this. 7am. As the | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
authorities begin to search for answers, investigators inside the | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
club the other mobile phones of victims ringing as family members | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
desperate for news try to contact them. Police say is a specialist | :06:09. | :06:11. | |
devices were found on the gunman and in his car. The Florida Department | :06:12. | :06:17. | |
of Law enforcement special agent in charge calls the shooting an act of | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
terrorism. Any time that we have potentially dozens of victims in any | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
of our communities, I think we can qualify that as a terrorist | :06:28. | :06:34. | |
activity. At 10:30am Law enforcement officials confirm that 49 people | :06:35. | :06:42. | |
including the gunman are dead and 53 are injured. As America morning, | :06:43. | :06:48. | |
Orlando adds its name to a growing rest, San Bernardino, Charleston, | :06:49. | :06:54. | |
Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech, Columbine and more. But the mid and it at the | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
Pulse club sets itself apart in scale and context -- but the murder | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
unleashed there. Families and friends come to terms their personal | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
lost, the deadliest shooting in this country's modern history has set of | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
an explosive charge right across America's most divisive political | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
fault lines. Now known as the biggest single mass shooting in | :07:21. | :07:23. | |
modern American history, you heard from Gabriel Gatehouse. | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
I'm joined by Pedro Julio Serrano, a gay rights activist and the first | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
openly LGBT person to run for elective office in Puerto Rico. | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
Now this is relevant, particularly, Pedro, because we know that nearly | :07:33. | :07:40. | |
half of the people killed in the tragedy were of Puerto Rican | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
descent. This must feel like a sore from all sides. Yes, in the 20 years | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
I've been an activist I've never felt so much sorrow and so much | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
pain. I knew some of the victims, I'm not family to them so I come and | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
even imagine what they are going through. It's devastating. Some of | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
them came to Orlando looking for a better life echoes of the crisis in | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
Puerto Rico, they were fleeing the crisis that we have, and to be here | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
in the hands of hate, it's uncomfortable. You had friends in | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
the club? It could have been me in that club because I have been there, | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
I am gay and buttery can, it comes close to me, I've had rifles similar | :08:23. | :08:30. | |
to the one that could have ended my life, because they told me, we are | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
going to kill you, fag and, we are going to terminate your life, and | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
fortunately I fled and I'm alive but those 49 lives will never be again. | :08:41. | :08:47. | |
It is a horrible tragedy. And it comes from every side. It is because | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
they are that you know, they are LGBT, it is because of radical | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
Islam, all of these things compounded into one another -- they | :08:58. | :09:04. | |
are Puerto Rico. Sometimes I don't even have words. How do you find | :09:05. | :09:10. | |
America's and the world's response to what has happened here? There is | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
a lot of solidarity of course. I think that we will become a better | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
society because of this but we cannot forget that this doesn't | :09:20. | :09:22. | |
happen in a vacuum. We have leaders like Donald Trump and other | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
religious and political leaders who are fundamentalists and have been | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
inciting violence against the LGBT community for too long. And they are | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
as responsible as the killer for this tragedy because when they | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
inside violent against us they are giving permission to individuals | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
like this can lead to attack us. I wonder how you interpreted some of | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
the words from Donald Trump today? He sounded as if he was appealing to | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
the gay vote, talking about the importance of the LGBT community, | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
setting that very much a part of the minority to be protected. Did you | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
feel reassured by that? I wish I could say on air what I really | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
think! I'm just going to leave it out, hate cannot be combated with | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
hate. They cannot fight hate with hate. We are not going to let this | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
event is divided us. This is not a war against Islam. Islam is a | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
religion of peace, and we have Muslim friends and people that we | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
hold dear. And we are not going to let Donald Trump divide us. This is | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
not going to be about a fight between Islam and the LGBT | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
community. It's not a fight between Muslims and LGBT people. I think the | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
answer to all of this love. Love well Trump, and I use the word Trump | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
carefully, levelled from hate. We need to stop this. America needs to | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
open its eyes because what the world is seeing is that they are letting | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
this product of the tea party and all these radical right-wingers be | :10:57. | :10:59. | |
the voice of America in this moment and they need to stop this. Pedro | :11:00. | :11:07. | |
Julio Serrano, thank you, some heartfelt language there, you will | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
fully understand the emotion that is in the city and the LGBT community | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
tonight. This perfect storm of American crises, a sense of free gun | :11:16. | :11:22. | |
laws and the possibility of Islamic radicalisation and a hate crime all | :11:23. | :11:25. | |
in this one appalling crime. Gabriel Gatehouse | :11:26. | :11:27. | |
is back with me now. It is not surprisingly the possibly, | :11:28. | :11:36. | |
that, five months from an election, this has already got incredibly and | :11:37. | :11:42. | |
heated to be political. This tragedy unites two of the most divisive | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
issues in American politics. Number one gun control, number two Islamic | :11:47. | :11:52. | |
terrorism. Often with these shootings which are about gun | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
control and it dies away. No one needs reminding that we are in an | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
election year. If you put these issues together it's not surprising | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
that the candidates have talked about this. Remember Donald Trump in | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
the aftermath of the Paris shootings last November. He came out with this | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
statement calling for a temporary ban on the entry of Muslims into the | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
America. A statement that became notorious in some quarters and was | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
applauded and others. In the aftermath of this shooting he has | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
not held back. We can hear some of what he said now. | :12:25. | :12:27. | |
I will suspend immigration from areas of the world | :12:28. | :12:29. | |
where there is a proven history of terrorism against | :12:30. | :12:31. | |
the United States, Europe or our allies, until we fully | :12:32. | :12:34. | |
We cannot continue to allow thousands upon thousands of people | :12:35. | :12:42. | |
to pour into our country, many of whom have the same thought | :12:43. | :12:51. | |
Many of the principles of radical Islam are incompatible with Western | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
That was Donald Trump, we also heard from the Democratic candidate, | :12:57. | :13:14. | |
Hillary Clinton, what did she say? The administration has for some | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
days, in the run-up to this, been talking about what they say is a | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
crazy situation where they can put American citizens on a no-fly list | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
but cannot buy them from buying the kind of assault weapons that caused | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
this carnage. So knows a prize that when Hillary Clinton spoke she | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
emphasised that aspect of gun-control -- no surprise that when | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
she spoke she emphasised that aspect of gun-control. | :13:40. | :13:46. | |
Sadly, we do not have that clip. Produce a body said? Hillary Clinton | :13:47. | :13:55. | |
basically said we must look at the means by which these attacks are | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
carried out it is difficult to stop every single home grown, if that is | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
the case, radicalised person from wanting to carry out an attack. | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
Hillary Clinton was placing the emphasis on the material, the guns, | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
that carry out these attacks. This election year is not like previous | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
election years. Not like President Obama this is Mitt Romney or even | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
versus John McCain. This puts a candidate from the establishment | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
against a candidate who portrays himself as wanting to overturn the | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
establishment. It is an incredibly feeble atmosphere here and events | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
like this can push things off course. President Obama said the | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
country was united in grief and in resolve. That may be so but very | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
divided in the answers to this problem thank you. We can speak now | :14:45. | :14:51. | |
to one of Durham Trump's foreign policy advisers, Waled Phares. Thank | :14:52. | :14:53. | |
you for joining us. I wonder if you can clarify some of | :14:54. | :15:05. | |
the comments from Donald Trump. He said he would suspend immigration | :15:06. | :15:08. | |
from all countries with a proven history of terrorism against America | :15:09. | :15:11. | |
or its allies. What does that entailed? That basically is a | :15:12. | :15:17. | |
transformation of his initial statement made last year, 2015, | :15:18. | :15:23. | |
about the so-called ban on Muslims. Now he is narrowing it to the | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
countries where there have been jihadis. That is conditioned, if | :15:29. | :15:34. | |
he's elected he's going to meet with the heads of agencies, leaders in | :15:35. | :15:41. | |
Congress and in the Arab world to figure out how to determine who is a | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
Jihadist and who isn't so he can apply this. He has said that he will | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
suspend when he will have the capacity to make that | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
differentiation between Jihadist and not. Of course many will say that it | :15:55. | :16:03. | |
completely misses the point of a murderer, someone guilty of the | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
deaths of 49 and wounding 53 others, who was born in New York and who is | :16:09. | :16:15. | |
a Native American. Oh, absolutely, there are many jihadists in America, | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
Great Britain, as you know, Belgium, France, who were born in those | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
countries and had a passport. It isn't about being foreign and being | :16:24. | :16:31. | |
non-foreign, it is about being a member of Salafi jihad is. The | :16:32. | :16:34. | |
French and the Egyptians know it isn't about having a passport -- you | :16:35. | :16:42. | |
had is. If you support the ideology of the movement, that should be | :16:43. | :16:50. | |
addressed. -- jihadism. Then you will understand that the immigration | :16:51. | :16:53. | |
question does not come into it as these people are in your country | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
already. That is true, that is why Mr Trump is saying that firstly we | :16:58. | :17:01. | |
must stop further penetration. He isn't saying that everybody coming | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
to the United States, he was clear, we are a country of immigrants, we | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
bring in immigrants but now the jihadists are using that to come in, | :17:11. | :17:14. | |
so we are going to slow the flow, shut it down until we Figueroa at | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
how we can make the distinction and then everybody who is a lawful | :17:19. | :17:22. | |
immigrant will be welcomed -- until we figure out. There will be many | :17:23. | :17:30. | |
watching I'm guessing who will say, each politician finds their own | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
narrative to this and for Donald Trump, he just wants to reinforce | :17:36. | :17:38. | |
the anti-Muslim narrative so he is making it all about anti-Muslim | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
immigration. It is divisive and isn't going to solve any problems. | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
He could be looking at gun crime, for example. Look, the agenda of | :17:48. | :17:54. | |
those opposing Mr Trump, the Democratic party, the Obama | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
administration, and of course the Muslim brotherhood and others are | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
opposing him, they accuse him of being Islamophobic. There is nothing | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
in his history, no books or articles, that show this. His | :18:09. | :18:11. | |
companies have all kinds of Woolwich as groups and in his speech he said | :18:12. | :18:18. | |
that he would work with countries such as the UAE, Egypt, Jordan and | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
others. There is nothing Islamophobic about it, it is about | :18:23. | :18:29. | |
national security. So do you think this is all just a petition to win | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
an American vote from an Islamophobia within his voter base, | :18:34. | :18:40. | |
then? He is basically attacking on the ground of Islamophobia but he | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
has clarified it is nothing about that, it is about finding jihadists. | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
In the Arab world, they called them by their names, why is it that the | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
Obama administration and Hillary Clinton are not using this | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
terminology? It is the political season and he is responding, no | :19:00. | :19:02. | |
doubt about it. Thank you for joining us. It seems extraordinary, | :19:03. | :19:12. | |
doesn't it, that's just a few days ago, this state and indeed the whole | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
of America was celebrating the anniversary, a year of gay marriage. | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
It seemed as if for many in the LGBT community this was a place that was | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
becoming freer, more open and accepting of its LGBT community. But | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
an act like this goes straight to the heart of terror and it is up to | :19:33. | :19:39. | |
America to figure out what kind of place it wants to be. Over to you, | :19:40. | :19:42. | |
Evan. Well, not withstanding events | :19:43. | :19:44. | |
in the US, the referendum campaign here in the UK has been | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
intensifying, immigration But with ten days to go | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
now, Newsnight is out We don't have a battle bus, | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
but our Newsnight truck helpfully transforms into instant studio, | :19:57. | :20:06. | |
from which we'll be getting fresh perspectives, we'll be asking | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
you questions and debating They say all politics is local | :20:12. | :20:14. | |
and we'll be stopping in a diverse selection of localities, | :20:15. | :20:21. | |
from the industrial hub of Middlesbrough, to the football | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
mad City of Leicester, to the postcard pretty market | :20:26. | :20:29. | |
town of Chipping Norton. We'll end up in the southern seaside | :20:30. | :20:31. | |
resort of Bognor Regis on Friday. I've come to the Outer Hebrides, | :20:32. | :20:34. | |
to the Isle of Lewis. Many say Brussels is remote, | :20:35. | :20:41. | |
too distance to Many say Brussels is remote, | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
too distant to connect to our needs. Nowhere in the country can say that | :20:46. | :20:47. | |
with more conviction Further geographically | :20:48. | :20:50. | |
from the heart of the EU In our last Europe referendum, | :20:51. | :20:53. | |
the Western Isles were one of only Unfortunately it's a little | :20:54. | :21:00. | |
expensive to get the truck here, so I hopped over to Stornoway | :21:01. | :21:09. | |
by plane and have left it We'll join Kirsty a little later | :21:10. | :21:12. | |
for that Glasgow perspective. But one big issue in this | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
campaign is distinctiveness. Everywhere in Europe, | :21:19. | :21:20. | |
everywhere in the world, And many feel that membership | :21:21. | :21:23. | |
of a big, sprawling EU Well, there are not many places | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
in the UK or the EU that are as truly distinctive | :21:29. | :21:37. | |
as the Isle of Lewis. The top left-hand corner of Britain, | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
a beautiful location. It scores unusually high | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
on religious observance; certainly don't come here for shopping | :21:49. | :21:50. | |
on the Sunday sabbath. It's low on population density | :21:51. | :21:52. | |
and diversity; and it is hideously light at this time | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
of year and night. So is Brussels a friend or foe, | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
to an island like this? John Sweeney has been here, | :22:02. | :22:04. | |
sounding out local opinion. You're listening to Annie on Isles | :22:05. | :22:08. | |
FM and she is excellent. We certainly are, it is 8.34 | :22:09. | :22:11. | |
and a half, I'm very pleased to welcome into the studio | :22:12. | :22:17. | |
from Newsnight, John Sweeney. Outer Hebrides, please, | :22:18. | :22:19. | |
let's get this right. You've come up to do a piece | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
about the EU referendum What's fascinating about this place | :22:25. | :22:30. | |
is that there is very little little inward immigration, | :22:31. | :22:37. | |
which is a big issue and in England and the rest of | :22:38. | :22:39. | |
Britain. Here, you can look at the economic | :22:40. | :22:42. | |
argument pretty purely, in a way, As well as the fact that it is one | :22:43. | :22:52. | |
of the most beautiful places MUSIC: "I'm Gonna Be (500 Miles) - | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
The Proclaimers referendum, the Isle of Lewis | :22:57. | :23:05. | |
was one of only two places So, 40 years on, will the most | :23:06. | :23:11. | |
north-westerly community If you seek the beauty | :23:12. | :23:24. | |
of the European Union, Scalpaigh Bridge, a poem | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
in steel and concrete. Cost, 6 million quid, | :23:29. | :23:34. | |
more than half of it paid Proof, if proof were needed, | :23:35. | :23:36. | |
say Remain, that the European Union If we get out of the European Union, | :23:37. | :23:44. | |
we have control over If we want to build | :23:45. | :23:51. | |
a bridge, we can. This whiskey distillery is not even | :23:52. | :23:58. | |
a year old. Its setup costs were part funded | :23:59. | :24:01. | |
by the EU and for that, seen over the last 20, | :24:02. | :24:04. | |
30 years has had the European badge on it, saying | :24:05. | :24:15. | |
it is it is part-funded. So in the simplest terms, | :24:16. | :24:17. | |
it has provided funding, We used to have single-track | :24:18. | :24:19. | |
roads all over the place. You might notice if you drove | :24:20. | :24:30. | |
from Stornoway today, Every piece of that road has got | :24:31. | :24:33. | |
European funding in it. We have to produce a very, | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
very high quality product here and charge a good price for it | :24:38. | :24:39. | |
to make sure that we can get it to market, get it to people | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
with a profit margin. Europe is obviously going to be | :24:44. | :24:46. | |
a huge market for us because it's close, so the logistics | :24:47. | :24:49. | |
are easier to deal with. But now to the most famous | :24:50. | :24:52. | |
export of these islands. Harris Tweed, it's worn by everyone | :24:53. | :24:55. | |
from Vivienne Westwood And every inch of it | :24:56. | :24:58. | |
comes through here. So this is wet wool, | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
which has a distinctive smell that No, no, it's just a very | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
distinctive smell! At Harris Tweed Hebrides we are very | :25:08. | :25:13. | |
much for remaining part of Europe. We depend very heavily on trading | :25:14. | :25:24. | |
with our European partners, trading with different | :25:25. | :25:31. | |
countries in Europe, France, Germany and Italy | :25:32. | :25:33. | |
in particular and we find that These are all markets we are looking | :25:34. | :25:35. | |
to grow and expand the coming years. It is nine o'clock and | :25:36. | :25:43. | |
the catch is being landed. Do you think if we pull out | :25:44. | :25:51. | |
of Europe tomorrow they are going We have a massive Spanish and French | :25:52. | :25:54. | |
fleet fishing off the west Coast of Scotland but we have a very | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
limited quota for white fish. But they can fish UK water, | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
on our doorstep, but we can't. The Common Fisheries Policy just | :26:05. | :26:08. | |
hasn't worked in the UK as a whole. Kipper fillets, we have | :26:09. | :26:14. | |
smoked mackerels. Some of Ross's fish | :26:15. | :26:23. | |
will end up here, in This is the old kiln, this was one | :26:24. | :26:25. | |
of the original kippering kilns. Kippers used to be loaded | :26:26. | :26:33. | |
from the top down with ladders This is what we use | :26:34. | :26:36. | |
for our own salmon. Our own smoked salmon | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
is done in here. As you can see, the walls | :26:42. | :26:44. | |
are covered in a thick layer of tar. The EU is a vast, vampiric | :26:45. | :26:48. | |
bureaucracy feeding off itself I defy you to go out | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
of here and find anybody who can tell you the distinction | :26:54. | :27:00. | |
between the European Council, the Council of Europe, | :27:01. | :27:03. | |
the European Parliament, In '75, this part of | :27:04. | :27:05. | |
the world voted to leave. It will do, most of the customers | :27:06. | :27:11. | |
who come into our The Outer Hebrides was Labour | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
and is now SNP and both How the vote will pan out, | :27:17. | :27:23. | |
no one knows for sure. Excuse me, sir, please | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
don't swim away. Well, let's get a little | :27:30. | :27:37. | |
more of the debate here. I'm with Mary Anne McIver, who runs | :27:38. | :27:54. | |
a tourist business in Stornaway. And Robert MacInnes, | :27:55. | :27:57. | |
who has a building firm. Thank you for joining us. You are | :27:58. | :28:07. | |
leaning towards out, I think, Robert. Why is that? Before we | :28:08. | :28:14. | |
joined the EU, the harbour was full of local fishing boats and now there | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
are next to none. The French, the Spanish, the Dutch, they are allowed | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
to come into Scotland, catch twice the quota we are allowed, from day | :28:24. | :28:31. | |
one. If we leave, is the fishing industry going to come back, do you | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
think? It will never come back to where it was, they've cleaned it | :28:37. | :28:42. | |
out. You are leaning, you are not quite as firm as Robert. What would | :28:43. | :28:50. | |
make you want to stay? I've been involved into arisen for the last 30 | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
years and I've seen huge investment in infrastructure, training and | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
quality standards, marketing, everything has benefited from | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
Europe. At the airport we can see a plaque saying that the airport was | :29:05. | :29:07. | |
paid for party with funds from Europe. What do you make of that, | :29:08. | :29:13. | |
Robert? If we didn't give the money to Brussels in the first place and | :29:14. | :29:16. | |
the UK Government directly gave it to the tourist industry or directly | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
to the farmers in Britain and directly to the fisher in Britain, | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
there would be more -- to the fishermen. Maryanne, who do you | :29:27. | :29:32. | |
think is more in touch and who is going to be looking after the | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
western isles more, Brussels or London? I'd have to say London, | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
absolutely, certainly in Scotland we'd have to say Edinburgh. We are | :29:42. | :29:50. | |
looking out for our own people, who stand up for us. I think we have | :29:51. | :29:57. | |
lost a bit of that through Europe, through the kind of governance in | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
many respects. That's why you are still wavering? Yes, I'm not sure | :30:01. | :30:06. | |
and to be honest it will be on the day that I decide. One reason why so | :30:07. | :30:11. | |
many people in Scotland I think what to vote to remain is that perhaps | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
they see it as a counterbalance to the power of London. You are a | :30:16. | :30:19. | |
supporter of the SNP, so you don't want to be dominated by the English, | :30:20. | :30:25. | |
I think that's obvious. You don't see Brussels as balancing power in | :30:26. | :30:31. | |
London? No, it is even further away that the money is being sent, the UK | :30:32. | :30:36. | |
Government send it to Brussels, they send ?100 and get ?70 back. We are | :30:37. | :30:43. | |
supposed to be grateful. The debate here is a bit distinctive, fishing | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
played a big part in the decision, the vote to come out last time. What | :30:48. | :30:53. | |
about immigration? If you watch the news and look at the debate in | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
England, it is full of immigration. Is that playing here at all? Not at | :30:58. | :31:03. | |
all. We've got a few people coming from the Eastern bloc who have come | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
here and they are very welcome, they are integrated and they are a | :31:08. | :31:12. | |
necessary part of what we do. Especially in the tourism industry, | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
they are necessary to do the jobs, they have children who go to school. | :31:17. | :31:23. | |
I have seen little evidence of any Eastern European migration. There | :31:24. | :31:32. | |
are Polish people here? Have implied four polish people, great workers, | :31:33. | :31:36. | |
work hard, pay their taxes. I'd certainly welcome more. There are | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
fish factories here totally run by Latvians... When you watch the way | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
the argument is going, how connected is it to the issues here? To be | :31:47. | :31:54. | |
honest, for people like me, Joe Published, we've had so much | :31:55. | :32:00. | |
politics in the last few years, with the referendum, we are bombarded | :32:01. | :32:06. | |
with Leave or State, or whatever so we are quite distrustful of what we | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
are hearing, what is being reported. That is why people are not sure | :32:11. | :32:15. | |
which way to vote. Thank you both very much. | :32:16. | :32:17. | |
I've chatted to people asking them to predict the result. | :32:18. | :32:19. | |
And I've had entirely contradictory answers. | :32:20. | :32:21. | |
How about in other parts of Scotland though? | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
Kirsty is with the Newsnight dormobile, in Glasgow. | :32:26. | :32:27. | |
of Kelvingrove Gallery, which has suitably | :32:28. | :32:47. | |
European connections, built in the Spanish Baroque style | :32:48. | :32:49. | |
for the Glasgow International exhibition in 1901. | :32:50. | :32:51. | |
The arguments in the debate broadly in Scotland are over | :32:52. | :32:54. | |
the economic impact of the EU, but migration is not the issue | :32:55. | :32:57. | |
We'll be talking about that in a moment with the psephologist | :32:58. | :33:00. | |
extraordinaire Professor John Curtice, but first let's go | :33:01. | :33:02. | |
to our political editor, Nick Watt, who has learned about a possible | :33:03. | :33:05. | |
News that the Solder has formally backed Brexit. A surprise? Not | :33:06. | :33:15. | |
really, it has not been a great friend of the European union over | :33:16. | :33:23. | |
the years. Remember that headline Up Yours Delors. The newspaper takes | :33:24. | :33:28. | |
pride in reflecting the ideas of swing voters and is relentlessly | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
political because it homes in on the argument giving sleepless nights in | :33:34. | :33:35. | |
three straight which is that the riskiest option is to stay in and | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
those won't be helped by a YouGov poll in the times tonight which | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
suggests that Leave is seven point head. Another set of figures is | :33:46. | :33:50. | |
causing concern, the suggestion that support among Labour voters is | :33:51. | :33:54. | |
falling. This is where the PM has seceded the campaign for Remain to | :33:55. | :34:00. | |
Labour at the moment. You saw Gordon Brown campaigning although there are | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
divisions inside the Labour Party. Many are concerned that Jeremy | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
Corbyn 's celebration of immigration is not helping the blue-collar | :34:09. | :34:12. | |
natural Labour voters who identify with the Vote Leave warnings on | :34:13. | :34:15. | |
immigration. The Shadow ministers are careful what they say yet Ed | :34:16. | :34:20. | |
Balls and Yvette Cooper and former Cabinet members were able to come | :34:21. | :34:23. | |
out and say that if we remained in the EU we could have controls on | :34:24. | :34:29. | |
immigration. We could use the UK presidency of the EU next year to | :34:30. | :34:35. | |
persuade Jenkin countries to perhaps but in border controls. We will be | :34:36. | :34:38. | |
seeing the Prime Minister a game, the Chancellor will make a big | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
speech at Mansion house on Thursday night on economic risks with Mark | :34:43. | :34:46. | |
Carney, the governor of the Bank of England, and on Friday, the big day, | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
Christine Lagarde, managing director of the IMF will against big about | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
what Brexit could mean for the economy. That is because Downing | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
Street firmly believes that the referendum will be won on the | :35:00. | :35:03. | |
economy. The lesson they took from the Scottish referendum was that | :35:04. | :35:07. | |
Project Fear did win the referendum. It wasn't a pledge of further | :35:08. | :35:13. | |
devolutionary powers to Hollywood, it was Project Fear, the economic | :35:14. | :35:15. | |
risk and that is the territory that they want to get back onto. Nick, | :35:16. | :35:18. | |
thank you. What is the latest position in the | :35:19. | :35:33. | |
polls? The evidence is beginning to Camilla and that Leave has made | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
progress. One poll shows a 3-point swing, and mother of four point | :35:39. | :35:41. | |
swing. If we look at all ten opinion polls done over the Internet, since | :35:42. | :35:47. | |
the government has no longer had access to the civil service machine | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
and has dominated headlines by producing paper after paper warning | :35:53. | :35:56. | |
us of the allegedly dire consequences of leaving the EU, | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
since then the opinion polls done over the Internet have on average | :36:01. | :36:05. | |
per delivered to's at 51.5. Before that those polls have always said it | :36:06. | :36:11. | |
was 50-50, and even split. Those polls are still on average better | :36:12. | :36:18. | |
for Remain but in the last couple of weeks including one today we had | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
telephone polls putting Leave head. And on average in those polls only | :36:24. | :36:29. | |
52% support Remain. This referendum is looking much closer than ten days | :36:30. | :36:35. | |
ago. What is the split Nationwide? The truth is that Scotland is | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
certain to Remain although the polls here have given Remain two thirds of | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
the vote and Leave only one third of the vote. Equally in Northern | :36:45. | :36:48. | |
Ireland, it looks as if there will be a 60-40 split in favour of | :36:49. | :36:54. | |
remaining. It's must undoubtedly the case whereas in England and in Wales | :36:55. | :37:01. | |
Leave are ahead. Might it be that Scotland pulls England in? If we are | :37:02. | :37:07. | |
looking at a situation where we may get only 51% support for Remain, in | :37:08. | :37:13. | |
that event, Scotland and Northern Ireland will have been pivotal in | :37:14. | :37:17. | |
keeping the UK inside the European Union. Nick mentioned that speech by | :37:18. | :37:19. | |
Gordon Brown. an audience of university students | :37:20. | :37:21. | |
and it was interesting to note that his closing pitch to them | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
stressed his view of Britain's What sort of message would we send | :37:26. | :37:27. | |
to the world on June 23, if we, Britain, who consider ourselves one | :37:28. | :37:32. | |
of the most internationally-minded countries of the world, | :37:33. | :37:34. | |
who consider ourselves to be outward looking, engaged, decided to walk | :37:35. | :37:38. | |
away from our nearest neighbours? This is not the Britain I know, | :37:39. | :37:42. | |
this is not the Britain I believe in, this is not the Britain | :37:43. | :37:46. | |
we should aspire to be. We should be a leader in Europe | :37:47. | :37:50. | |
and not leaving it, and that's But could Scotland | :37:51. | :37:53. | |
keep the UK in the EU? With the prospect that | :37:54. | :38:03. | |
Nicola Sturgeon could But that would reduce | :38:04. | :38:05. | |
the likelihood of another Scottish referendum, which a | :38:06. | :38:08. | |
Brexit might trigger. To discuss this I'm joined | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
by Glasgow multimillionaire businessman John Boyle, who is | :38:14. | :38:22. | |
leading a one-man charge to leave, the SNP's Alisdair Allan, | :38:23. | :38:25. | |
and the writer Denise Mina. Good evening. First, Alisdair, | :38:26. | :38:32. | |
hasn't David Cameron sort of been using the SNP to say, basically, if | :38:33. | :38:38. | |
you vote to Leave will have another referendum and that could mean a | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
split in the UK. You could be called David Cameron's poodle, doing his | :38:43. | :38:48. | |
work for him. I think that's a far-fetched reading of the | :38:49. | :38:50. | |
situation. We face a simple choice next week about whether we want to | :38:51. | :38:54. | |
be in the EU. That is the question that will be on the ballot paper. | :38:55. | :39:00. | |
It's no secret that I want Scottish independent, so does the Scottish | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
Government, yet that is not what we are being asked. It could be like | :39:05. | :39:10. | |
Project Fear, he says that if we vote to Remain less chance of | :39:11. | :39:13. | |
independence. I don't think people see it in those terms, people are | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
starting to see it as the campaign gets tighter, see what's happening, | :39:18. | :39:22. | |
people are beginning to think of the positive case for being in Europe. | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
And also thinking about what is the prospect that Leave site offers as | :39:28. | :39:32. | |
to how we coexist and trade with the rest of Europe in future? John, a | :39:33. | :39:38. | |
lot of what was said in that film will be no deal. You have businesses | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
all over the UK, undoubtedly -- it will be known to you. That | :39:44. | :39:49. | |
distillery has been open for your... The fact is that the one thing | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
becoming increasingly clear is that this nonsense that if we vote to | :39:55. | :39:59. | |
Leave, Europe somehow will not trade with us. It's nonsense. We run a | :40:00. | :40:05. | |
trade deficit with Europe of ?9 billion a month. We give them ?9 | :40:06. | :40:14. | |
billion... There's a huge deficit. The idea that the French, when we | :40:15. | :40:23. | |
put in ?1.3 billion of their wine -- that we import that, would tax us | :40:24. | :40:29. | |
when we export ?480 million of whiskey, it's absolute nonsense. Sir | :40:30. | :40:34. | |
James Dyson at this weekend highlighted this. I think people are | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
becoming increasingly susceptible to the fact that the economic argument | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
survey does not stand up. Denise. Ray mac and John, they are looking | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
at a broader spreadsheet, looking at trade with Britain, they get this | :40:49. | :40:54. | |
much profit from it. They also looking at trade jeopardised with | :40:55. | :40:58. | |
other European countries. If Europe fractures they will have to | :40:59. | :41:01. | |
negotiate tariffs and deal with all those other countries so... Why | :41:02. | :41:09. | |
would Europe commit economic suicide by imposing tariffs on us but not | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
reasonable when they sell more to us than we do to them? Because they are | :41:15. | :41:21. | |
looking at the value of having the European Community. It is | :41:22. | :41:24. | |
interesting that your passion is not matched by what we're hearing from | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
Leave in Scotland, they have been muted, to do regret that? It has | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
been rated, there's a possibility of election fatigue Scotland. I think | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
John Curtis was right, Scotland will undoubtedly vote, not as I think | :41:40. | :41:46. | |
because I think a lot of people in Scotland will vote Remain because | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
they fear the prospect of another referendum, and they are now having | :41:51. | :41:54. | |
second thoughts because there was another referendum, bring it on, | :41:55. | :41:59. | |
we'd win even more convincingly. Let's look at the question of | :42:00. | :42:03. | |
migration. Is it not true that overall migration is the same | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
roughly as it is in England but it is fair to say that we don't have | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
the concentrated areas in Scotland as they do in England and that's the | :42:12. | :42:18. | |
problem. People become ghettoised. It's a sign that people are not made | :42:19. | :42:23. | |
welcome and don't feel safe in disparate communities. But I think | :42:24. | :42:28. | |
people do feel safe here. People from other countries have made a | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
huge contribution to Scotland culturally and economically. It's | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
important to say that we are talking in Scotland about communities from | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
across the EU whose future will be very uncertain if we're not part of. | :42:41. | :42:46. | |
Not only that, it is a two-way street because there are plenty of | :42:47. | :42:49. | |
British people living in countries in Europe whose future would be | :42:50. | :42:55. | |
equally... Earlier in this campaign we went to Boston, Lincolnshire, | :42:56. | :42:59. | |
where 10% of the population from Eastern Europe. If that happened in | :43:00. | :43:04. | |
a town like Stirling it would feel different. People who come here from | :43:05. | :43:10. | |
Europe, coming to make their home in Scotland and big us that complement | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
our making a net contribution economically and culturally to | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
Scotland. They are less likely to be claiming benefits than anyone, more | :43:19. | :43:25. | |
likely to be claiming tax. I think it is unfortunate that elements of | :43:26. | :43:28. | |
the Leave campaign have chosen to make this an unpleasant debate about | :43:29. | :43:34. | |
migration. This is exactly where Remain have gone wrong. They have | :43:35. | :43:40. | |
consistently, the Prime Minister and particularly the Labour Party, | :43:41. | :43:43. | |
refused to discuss immigration. I would concede wholeheartedly it is | :43:44. | :43:48. | |
less of an issue in Scotland than in England but when you have 330,000 | :43:49. | :43:55. | |
people coming from the EU into the city the size of Coventry, no matter | :43:56. | :44:01. | |
what benefits there may be, the pressure that it puts on schools and | :44:02. | :44:07. | |
the NHS is... It is nonsense to suggest that we can sweep that under | :44:08. | :44:11. | |
the carpet. It has not been swept under the carpet. The point is | :44:12. | :44:16. | |
leaving the EU will not necessarily resolve migration. Control our own | :44:17. | :44:25. | |
borders, of course it will. It won't make that much difference! The world | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
is fundamentally changing. The coming philosophical question of the | :44:31. | :44:34. | |
edge, how do you maintain a cultural identity in a globalised | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
environment. It is not the EU, it's a globalised environment. You are | :44:40. | :44:43. | |
telling me that... One of the reasons we are democratic is we | :44:44. | :44:48. | |
control our own borders, laws and taxes. If we control none of those | :44:49. | :44:53. | |
we want the country. Can I ask you to address this briefly, Alisdair? | :44:54. | :44:58. | |
If Remain is successful, do you admit that it will push the idea of | :44:59. | :45:01. | |
independence in Scotland into the long grass? I don't accept | :45:02. | :45:14. | |
the premises of these questions. There is a simple question being put | :45:15. | :45:17. | |
to us about the positive case for remaining in the European Union and | :45:18. | :45:20. | |
that is what people in Scotland are thinking of. Of course if Scotland | :45:21. | :45:22. | |
is put in a position where it is tracked out of the European union | :45:23. | :45:25. | |
against its will electorally of course that will have an impact and | :45:26. | :45:29. | |
create new pressures around the case for independence, for the case | :45:30. | :45:33. | |
independence. The case for independence has been around for a | :45:34. | :45:38. | |
long time and it isn't going away. Briefly, Denise, you want to stay in | :45:39. | :45:42. | |
the UK and you accept that if we leave we are more likely to have | :45:43. | :45:45. | |
another referendum. I think people are exhausted, you are right, they | :45:46. | :45:50. | |
are exhausted being asked to write in to constitutional questions, we | :45:51. | :45:54. | |
have to be bound by the outcome of the referendum, whether it is what | :45:55. | :45:58. | |
we would like not. Thank you. That is all from here tonight, there will | :45:59. | :46:02. | |
be more from Emily in Orlando and will be moving on with our Road | :46:03. | :46:08. | |
truck tomorrow. From all of us in Glasgow, good night. | :46:09. | :46:17. | |
Weather across the UK stuck in repeat, plenty of showers, some | :46:18. | :46:20. | |
heavy | :46:21. | :46:21. |