22/07/2016 Newsnight


Another act of terror hits Europe as a shopping centre in Munich is attacked by multiple gunmen, and Emily Maitlis reports from the Republican National Convention.

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A shopping centre in Munich is targeted by up to three attackers


leaving at least eight dead and many more injured.


TRANSLATION: There are many badly injured, our crisis team is


taking care of about 100 people and all the police forces


Police are still hunting the attackers as hundreds of people


are stranded by a public transport shutdown in the city.


It's still a developing situation, but the German police say they're


And we're at the Republican National Convention,


gauging the reaction to Trump's vision for his presidency


and his plan to take the fight to Hillary.


The most important difference between our plan and that of our


opponent is that our plan will put America first. CHEERING


Abject and bloody terror has been visited upon another European city


tonight and its perpetrators are still at large in Munich.


Local police report that eight people were killed


and many more severely injured after up to three gunmen


opened fire at a shopping centre in the German city's Moosach


district just over six and a half hours ago.


Public transport has been suspended, citizens have been advised to stay


indoors and the authorities have described an acute


A gunman opens fire on a Munich street just before 4pm this


afternoon. GUNFIRE People around the area fleet, as


there's more shop inside the Olympia shopping centre just across the


road. -- more shots. It is in the north-west of Munich. Eyewitnesses


in the shopping centre described the scene. TRANSLATION: My wife and


daughter are missing. I was inside the shopping centre that my wife


wasn't with me. I still have stuff to do and she wanted to go to


another shop. I said, go ahead, with my daughter, and I will, to you


afterwards. I saw people running out with them and I asked what is going


on, no one had a clue. Only one man said there is a man with a gun he


was shooting other people. The situation is still very unclear and


developing but police say there are at least eight casualties with up to


three gunmen involved and still on the run.


TRANSLATION: There are many badly injured, our crisis team is taking


care of about 100 people and all the police forces are busy with the


manhunt. It's the panic there were reports of


shootings elsewhere in this city although they now appear not to be


correct. Police have told people to stay indoors. Metro and bus services


have been stopped and the area around the shopping more has been


blocked off by police. Other videos of the attack at or attackers have


also appeared. Here, one walks around a car park roof with a


handgun. In an extraordinary exchange with an onlooker, he


apparently insults Turks and says, "I am German". Could this be a clue


to his motives? An attack by far right extremists on the fifth


anniversary of the attack by Anders Breivik in Norway. Police have said


they are treating it as suspected terrorism, but we don't know any


more. The idea of taking a gun and shooting in a public location is


something we have seen repeatedly being used by groups with also sub


ideology is. We recently saw a spree shooting in a nightclub. Anders


Breivik used guns to kill lots of people. It is something we have seen


different ideologies using. It is a basic fundamental ideology, get a


gun and shoots lots of people. If you have a gun you can kill quite a


few people and have a high impact. Earlier this week Germany


experienced its first Isis related attack when a teenage refugee armed


with an axe targeted passengers on a train. Another possibility is that


today buzz events are the latest in a series of jihadi attacks in Europe


-- today's events. Whatever the motive, if it is at all political


comment could have a far-reaching impact in Germany. Tonight, though,


the search for those responsible still continues.


Well Andrew Plant can now join us from Munich.


Good evening. What is the very latest situation?


A lot of confusion here when we landed


because, obviously, most people are coming here just to try to get


back to their homes, but told they can't


get their normal buses and taxis into the city


centre, because so many roads are closed.


It shows you the lockdown Munich city centre is in right now.


The latest, as we understand it, here on the manhunt is this:


Eyewitnesses are saying there were three men with guns.


There are reports that one of those men has died.


Police haven't confirmed that, but they have


Possibly three men on the run right now. Metro quickly evacuated because


one person had said the gunmen had gone underground. Quickly evacuated


and searched, no reports of any arrest. We have heard that police


are being drafted in from Austria. We are only about 50 miles away here


from the German-Austrian border. We also know that German


officials have said so they are beefing up


their border security. That shows you the scale of the


manhunt is not just in Munich but potentially over a much wider area.


What is the mood amongst all very people? You mentioned the lockdown


and confusion that many of the streets will be deserted, of course.


Track but many. Munich police have used social media


to their benefit. In the first hour or so they used social media to ask


people not to share pictures of the attack but they also used it to get


a wide message out to a lot of people very quickly. They said,


please stay away from the streets of Munich. If you are at home, stay at


home, don't come outside until we know what the situation is. They use


it to contact local taxi drivers, not to pick up fares and bring them


into the city centre. One more thing going on, to help people who are in


Munich perhaps stranded and not sure where to go to take shelter. People


had been tweeting with the hashtag open door. If you are stuck and


don't know where to go, you can look on twitter, find someone who has


been tweeting that hashtag. There are lots of them out there right


now, you can go to their home and they will give you sang tree until


people know what is going on right now. Thank you.


Our Diplomatic Editor Mark Urban is here in the studio.


As we have heard, it is a fast moving and incredibly fluid


situation in Munich. What are the challenges the police are facing in


getting inaccurate picture of what has happened and ideally, of course,


catching the people responsible? -- an accurate. We have seen this from


a number of incidents, echo chamber of social media and people reporting


things, some distortion, perhaps, as to what we are actually looking at.


Are there multiple shooters, really? We saw this report in Dallas when it


happened a couple of weeks ago. It turned out to be one. Long firearms,


rifle type weapons? I very much doubt it. Bubbly people seeing


plainclothes police getting involved. Arch probably people. At


the last few hours, no reports of gunshots -- probably people. The


police have suggested that the ninth person they found dead may well be


the gunmen in Black, who we saw in that film. One has to ask, were


there ever another one or two? If there were, given the absence of any


ongoing incidents in the last hour or two, it is possible they had


escaped but equally possible and looking increasingly likely, that


this is a lone gunmen who may now have taken his own life. You


mentioned the other incidents we have seen in the continent on the


last few weeks and months. We don't know that much about the German


authorities's capacity to cope. Does it differ from the French, for


example? It would be fair to say that when you talk to the British


people, military and police who might be involved in this, they look


with some envy at the capabilities that those two countries can deploy.


If we look at the situation in Germany, for example, to night, I


can see officers from the special armed unit of the city police and


also a special unit commander SEK, almost like SAS assault forced


deployed by the state police and they were there incredibly quickly


at that shopping centre. It is an impressive response. The analogous


place would be Manchester or Glasgow. You talk to the police and


there is a pretty small number of specialist firearms officers on duty


even in those large British cities on the average day. It is a very


extensive response the Germans can bring. Also some other resources


coming in, GS, G nine, national SAS type unit is also on its way down to


Munich. If there are the people are at large, they will probably run


them to ground quite quickly. Thank you very much.


Joining me via Skype from Berlin is Yassin Musharbash,


terrorism analyst for the German national weekly paper, Die Zeit.


Many thanks for your time. We have heard some speculation that it may


be a Lone Wolf attacker with perhaps no affiliations. The alternative, of


course, it even recent events in Nice and elsewhere is that there


will be an Islamist subtext to this attack, tell us a bit about the


situation in Germany. With regard to the fear of Islamist terrorism. The


fear is large. Only a couple of days ago we witnessed a terror attack in


Germany. The first one, as a matter of fact, that was claimed by the


Islamic State. This was on the train? Exactly. Everybody here was


on high alert already. As the news broke, after the shooting incident


in Munich, I believe what most people assumed immediately was that


this is most likely get hardest attack. -- jihadist. As your


correspondence that, we do not know. It is too early to say at this


moment. All options are still on the table. Ranging from a single shooter


to a jihadist cell of three people, some of whom may perhaps still be on


the run, we don't know yet. Of course. Tell me a bit about the


atmosphere in Germany and specifically in Munich. We know


Angela Merkel's decision to invite 1 million refugees into the country


has been politically, one might say, controversial. Others would describe


it as a toxic environment. One in which people have been fearing the


worst? Well, Munich was... The city in Germany where most of the


refugees poured into the country, last year. Most of the pictures that


made their way around the world of German helpers welcoming refugees


were actually filmed in Munich. There is a reason we call Munich the


city of hearts in Germany. It is quite possible that this


reputation that the city holds is something that a jihadist cell would


like to attack and undermine. It is also quite clear that if this turns


out to be a jihadist attack, it will change public and political debate


in Germany quite profoundly. But, again, we do not know yet, we will


have to wait. I appreciate you are repeatedly stressing that. It can't


be reiterated often enough. Let's just contemplate, momentarily, the


opposite possibility. The possibility that it is perhaps


somebody inspired by the anti-Islamist, anti-refugee feeling.


That there has been an upsurge in that sentiment in Germany as well.


They're absolutely has been. But it hasn't taken on terrorist forms yet.


That would be something completely new as well. We have to be reminded


that today is the fifth anniversary of the Anders Breivik attack and


jihadists think in dates like this. We did not know if right-wing


terrorists do, maybe they will and have started today the is another


option. That we are talking about a disturbed individual. Dutchman there


is another. The footage that was already alluded to in your report,


the footage that was shot most likely at the very beginning of this


whole attack was a very confusing dialogue with an onlooker. I think


it may point towards an attacker with mental issues. That is a third


option. At this point we have no indication of a political background


but we just don't have it. The terror level, presumably, has been


at the highest possible since that type in Wurzburg? -- that attack.


All of Germany has been in high alert. That is properly why the


police in Munich was able to react in the way they did, which is


commendable. Including that use of social media. Thank you.


To America now, where Emily Maitlis has spent much of this week watching


the Republican party formally endorse Donald Trump's


It has been, it's fair to say, a most unconventional Convention.


It was an angry speech here in Cleveland last night,


from a man laying out a quasi-apocalyptic vision of the


country America had become, the violence, the terrorism, the


low-paid jobs and the lack of self-esteem.


He called himself the candidate of law and order.


He invoked some of Nixon's 1968 campaign against that


There were great cheers, every time he mentioned blue lives.


He thanked the police to loud applause when, at one point, they


bundled out a protest, trying to interrupted him.


He had an enthusiasm in his voice for


something not a million miles away from a police state.


What this was not, though, was a traditional Republican


There was no mention of abortion or gun rights.


Or of the Constitution or of amendments.


He, at one point, even tiptoed on LGBT issues to the


surprise, perhaps shock of many in the hall.


No, this is a man who knows he's turned his own party upside


down and now wants to make a pitch invasion on the Democrat's party.


The stage was set for a night Stars Stripes American optimism. But the


American nightmare is replaced in American dream. Libya is in ruins,


and our ambassador and his staff were left helpless to die at the


hands of savage killers. This is the legacy of Hillary Clinton - death,


destruction, terrorism and weakness. He told them, shouting at times, the


solution was forced, blocking migrants, restoring law and order,


and this old favourite, the war. -- the wall.


He is a military man when he is talking about building a wall. What


is the matter with building a wall? I visited the Vatican and it has a


wall around it. Why? This speech sought not to reassure but to anger.


He also appealed to Bernie Sanders supporters worried about losing


their jobs overseas. I don't want to diminish our freedom and


independence. We will never, ever sign bad trade deals. America,


first, again. America first! I am sure they will listen to his speech


with interest and make a judgment on it. It is hard to reconcile a speech


on law and order and immigration with Bernie Sanders supporters. All


those Bernie Sanders supporters were not socialists. Many were just


people who were angry with what was going on. The most memorable slogans


have been the ones aimed at Clinton. Last night, Donald Trump


reached above the name-calling to insist


to the crowd, let's beat her. I think Americans know the choice


is between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump


and they will go with Donald Trump. They want somebody who can


shake up Washington. And Washington, this time,


means another Clinton. The baton passes to Philadelphia,


next week, when their presidential candidate has to turn her own


convention into something I am joined by the former speech


writer for George W Bush, and from Los Angeles by Charlotte laws.


Peter, I will begin with you, if I may. It is traditionally quite a


cheerful occasion, the convention, not necessarily an adjective you


would apply to the last few days. That's right. This was the longest


and darkest convention speech we have ever seen. The America that


Donald Trump was describing was dystopian - dark, dreary, broken and


bleeding, almost beyond repair. It was quite extraordinary. It fits his


personality, and I think his premises that things are so -- his


premise is that things are so bleak that only Donald Trump can fix what


is wrong with America. He is incapable of fixing the problems we


have, but I think his description of America is so out of touch with


America that it won't work. There are problems in the country, but


they are discreet and they can be solved. Hillary Clinton and the


Democrats will drive a truck through the holes he left in the Cleveland


speech. Why was your role was not their? Because Donald Trump is


antithetical to a lot of what George W Bush believed in. It is


antithetical to a lot of what Ronald Reagan believed in. He is not a


conservative, hardly even a Republican, and he is redefining the


party in ways that a lot of us think of as dangerous and pernicious. He


is a threat to the Republican Party, and I think that was clear from his


speech, but it has been clear from what he has been saying and how he


has been conducting himself. We have never seen anything like him, and I


hope we don't again. Charlotte, you are shaking your head. Do you


recognise this description of America as being cowed and close to


dystopia? Absolutely. People in this country, many of them, believe that


Donald Trump is talking about the situation as it is. People are


fearful and realise there is a gap between the rich and poor, they


realise corporations are in control and the elite. He is an outsider. We


are happy that the Bush family did not speech at the convention,


because that would have made it an establishment convention. His speech


was a balance between toughness and compassion. I don't agree that it


was all dark and dreary. It was inspirational, and if you look at


the end section, you will see how it was inspirational and how he got the


crowd revved up, so I don't agree with that description. Never is one


person who agrees with your analysis. I think he used the word


overjoyed to describe it, the leader of the Ku Klux Klan. What does he


see an Donald Trump that feels his heart with joy? He released a


statement along the lines of, I am happy with Donald Trump for


championing my causes. I am not sure that David Duke supports Donald


Trump. I believe he supports Hillary Clinton. It is unfair to make that


comment. He is running for the Senate, and he said yesterday that


he was overjoyed to see Donald Trump championing the causes that he has


spent his whole life pursuing. It is unequivocal. I wonder what you think


he sees in Donald Trump that appeals to a textbook white supremacist will


stop I am part of the animal rights community in Los Angeles, and most


of the ones that I know support Donald Trump. I understand that, but


I am more interested in what this man sees in Donald Trump. Why is he


overjoyed? I have no idea, but I know a lot of people who are


overjoyed by Trump who are on the left. You might want to ask the same


question about them. I think it is an unfair question, because you are


singling out one person who likes Trump when there are lots of people,


liberals and Bernie Sanders supporters, who support Trump. It is


unfair to try to equate Trump with racism. I wonder why he appeals to


such a prominent racist, but if you don't know, that's fine. Peter, when


we hear that the Bernie Sanders contingent will be crucial to Mr


Trump's chances of moving beyond the base, what buttons will he be trying


to push among the non-traditional Republican voters? Trade, the button


he pushed all night and the button he has been pushing since he got


into the campaign. His bet is that by being a protectionist, and is he


-- and he is as fierce a protectionist as we are likely to


see, that is what he thinks is his way into those photos. The Sanders


voters are really at odds with him. They find Mr Trump repellent. Who


will you vote for? I don't know yet. I won't vote for Mr Trump under any


conditions, for the reasons I sketched out. I think he is


dangerous, erratic, unstable. I think he has a personality disorder,


and I think he is unprincipled and would be a threat to the country. I


think he is also a threat to the Republican Party. Both are things


that I care about, the country and the party. I am not inclined to vote


for Mrs Clinton because I am a conservative and she is a liberal.


She stands for everything I have stood against in my life. That would


be a difficult vote. I may not vote. I will have to see. I will cross


that bridge when the 7th of November comes around, the day before the


election. I am quite certain I will not vote for Donald Trump. There is


a third point of this triangle, albeit a less prominent one. Gary


Johnson, the Libertarian candidate. Jeb Bush, your former boss's


brother, might support him. I am not a libertarian, I am a Conservative.


I have some sympathy for libertarian views, but not a lot. There is a big


difference between being a Conservative and a libertarian. My


inclination is I will probably vote for someone else on the right. Ben


Sass is a senator from Nebraska, very principled and intelligent. He


has been a critic of Trump, and very principled about that. We will see.


My vote will not make a difference, but you know, people do, as Ted Cruz


said, have to vote with their conscience. Charlotte, I think we


know how you will cast your vote. Many thanks for your time this


evening, and to Peter. Back in Britain.


He was one of the big beasts of Brexit but,


with victory secured, Iain Duncan Smith has found himself


banished to the back benches by Theresa May.


A month on from the referendum result, today seemed an opportune


moment to find out what the former Work and Pensions Secretary


So when I interviewed him earlier today I began by asking


whether he was disappointed he was less front and centre


than Boris Johnson and Michael Gove when the results of


In my view, it's always been on this, 24 years ago, when I voted


against Maastricht I actually was not for the UK


leaving the European Union, I believed it


Over the years, as I've seen more treaties go through, I


The main point I would make about this


I was involved a lot in the debate and I


don't have any personal prejudice in terms of wanting myself to be front


and centre on this, never had really.


I know you have spoken about the ?350 million pledge that wasn't


There are a few other areas where perhaps people might


Well, to be fair, you could probably argue


both sides of the case there were lots of different types of stories.


There was a wonderful story how all families would be ?4,300


The point is, on balance, I don't think people actually made


their decision on elements like that.


I think what they made their


decision on was, on the basis, did they feel instinctively


that the UK was better off out for them.


Are you more comfortable today about the fact


that the country is being controlled by a Remainer?


We are a Conservative Government, we had four more years to run...


You were pretty clear that you wanted a Brexiteer in the big job.


I wanted to leave but that slightly went south


when Mr Gove and Mr Johnson didn't quite get their act together.


I was public in saying that I thought if they were together,


My sense about this, though, is that Theresa May,


I have known her for a long time, I have worked with her in


Cabinet, I know if she gives her word on something, she will keep it.


They will get on with it now and we will


I sense, and perhaps I'm wrong, you would be


rather more keen to be involved in these processes and negotiations.


Yes I am, as a member of Parliament, I have a view and I will make that


By the way, I don't regret that I'm not in government,


I resigned back in March, for different reasons.


I was in no hurry to get back in government.


I've got a lot I want to get on with.


I'm going back to the Centre for Social


Justice and I want to get on with other things,


David Davis has got your job, hasn't he?


I wish him the best of luck. I'm an old friend of David's.


Liam Fox? No, no.


You have to acknowledge that had your candidate for the


leadership, Andrea Leadsom, succeded, you would have


expected to be at the top table?


Even so, I wasn't really asking for a job.


My point was I wanted to get the right people in place.


Is Boris Johnson the right person to be Foreign Secretary?


Now you have a very different setup, because


The European stuff is now in another department


and the trade stuff is carved off into a Trade Department,


All of that means that Boris has a job to


do, to tell the world, this is an important factor,


to tell the world that actually, Britain is open for


business and Britain is a country that has always managed through


difficult times and good times and will continue to do so.


Actually, the funny thing about Boris, he is


pretty good at doing that kind of stuff.


To steer you back to the new Prime Minister and the notion of


mandate and the notion of wanting, by your own admission,


a Brexit leader and not getting one, does she have a mandate


She has stood for an election to lead the Conservative Party and


the leader of the Conservative Party de facto has a right to claim


The country has asked that Britain leaves the European Union.


She has said we will now act on that.


It is a very simple statement and a very simple


comment from her that she is going to do that.


Any sympathy for Messrs Cameron and Osborne?


It's a tough job being in government.


It's particular tough being Prime Minister.


I've worked very closely with the Prime Minister for six years.


You weren't so close to the Chancellor, were you?


We didn't always see eye to eye, to be fair.


At the end, we had a chain of disagreements,


which culminated in my resigning from the government.


Have you spoken to either of them since resigning?


I have, since then. Which one?


I wouldn't say they were hugely long conversations,


Now, just time to remind you that Newsnight is on Saturday this week,


and we're so excited we made a montage about it.


It is on BBC Two tomorrow. Coming up next, the award-winning Scottish


crime writer Val McDermid looks at the relationship between fiction,




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