12/08/2016 Newsnight


12/08/2016

On the programme, a German suicide bomber's therapist speaks, Derek Hatton on the Labour leadership, inside Aleppo with an English professor, and Steve Smith's Olympics.


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Transcript


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Tonight a unique insight into the mind of a suicide bomber,

:00:00.:00:00.

Mohammed Daleel, the Syrian who detonated himself in Ansbach

:00:07.:00:12.

last month had been seeing a pyychotherapist in

:00:13.:00:16.

He was looking up with open eyes, even when he should relax

:00:17.:00:21.

and breathe a little deeper, because he said the pictures,

:00:22.:00:23.

the bad pictures can start running the moment the eyes are closed.

:00:24.:00:28.

We'll be discussing the psychology of lone wolf attackers.

:00:29.:00:32.

Jeremy Corbyn says today's Appeal Court decision that Labour

:00:33.:00:34.

party members who joined in the past six months can't

:00:35.:00:36.

vote in the leadership election is undemocratic.

:00:37.:00:40.

I'll be asking Derek Hatton, famously expelled from

:00:41.:00:42.

the Labour Party, whether it's the 80s all over again.

:00:43.:00:47.

Images taken by a professor of English who doggedly goes to work

:00:48.:00:52.

at the university to teach students equally determined to keep learning

:00:53.:00:56.

I will not leave until I lose my soul.

:00:57.:01:09.

Of course sometimes yes, when we were under siege,

:01:10.:01:11.

sometimes I hold my daughter and I ask her for forgiveness,

:01:12.:01:13.

And surfing Newsnight's Olympic sofa tonight, comedian Jenny Eclair.

:01:14.:01:17.

I'm hoping that the very large y-fronted underpants aren't

:01:18.:01:21.

What goes on inside the mind of a suicide bomber?

:01:22.:01:40.

The messages they leave behind tend to be crude Jihadist propaganda.

:01:41.:01:42.

And for obvious reasons, you can't interrogate them.

:01:43.:01:44.

But tonight we can get a real insight.

:01:45.:01:46.

Mohammed Daleel, a 27-year-old refugee from Syria,

:01:47.:01:49.

blew himself up in the little Bavarian town of Ansbach last month,

:01:50.:01:53.

In the 18 months before he wounded eighteen people and then killed

:01:54.:02:02.

himself, he had been receiving treatment for mental illness.

:02:03.:02:05.

Newsnight has learned that a psychological

:02:06.:02:06.

evaluation of Daleel, sent to the German authorities last

:02:07.:02:08.

year, described him as an "extreme character" and one who had

:02:09.:02:11.

the potential to attempt suicide in "spectacular" fashion.

:02:12.:02:14.

That assessment was written by the person who perhaps knew him

:02:15.:02:17.

best, the therapist who treated him over the period of a year.

:02:18.:02:19.

He's been speaking to Gabriel Gatehouse for Newsnight.

:02:20.:02:44.

It was war that drove Mohammad Daleel to Bavaria

:02:45.:02:46.

on a journey from Syria to provincial Germany.

:02:47.:02:48.

But did he come to escape conflict or instead to bring violence

:02:49.:02:59.

with him, to inflict it on the very people who gave him refuge?

:03:00.:03:05.

What motivated this man to blow himself up in this beer garden,

:03:06.:03:17.

one evening last month, claiming to do so in

:03:18.:03:19.

To think that he come with that intention, it doesn't fit for me.

:03:20.:03:32.

In January 2015, he slashed his wrists after he was told he would be

:03:33.:03:39.

deported to Bulgaria, the country where he first entered

:03:40.:03:41.

When he come the first time he has bandages around his arms,

:03:42.:03:47.

They put him into a psychiatric clinic for ten days,

:03:48.:03:53.

and then they left him, then Foreign Office said "OK,

:03:54.:03:59.

you must go back to Bulgaria", then he promised to take gasoline,

:04:00.:04:05.

pour it over him in front of the Bundesamt and set fire.

:04:06.:04:08.

Mohammed Daleel spent dozens of hours in this chair,

:04:09.:04:10.

Along with his wife Gisela, he runs a trauma therapy

:04:11.:04:17.

Over a period of 12 months, Axel and Gisela gained a deep

:04:18.:04:23.

insight into the mind of a future suicide bomber.

:04:24.:04:25.

Mr Daleel, who claimed to be an opposition activist,

:04:26.:04:28.

told them he had been brutally tortured in Aleppo.

:04:29.:04:36.

For example, they fix him to the wall so tight that his veins

:04:37.:04:39.

were still swollen here, and when you stand there,

:04:40.:04:41.

every five minutes you get an electric shock so you cannot

:04:42.:04:44.

Traumatisation has very typical symptoms.

:04:45.:04:50.

If you talk to somebody and he describes the symptoms

:04:51.:04:52.

you can say he has that post-traumatic stress disorder.

:04:53.:04:57.

And did he have post-traumatic stress disorder?

:04:58.:04:59.

He once said - I made a relaxation exercise with him later

:05:00.:05:06.

in the therapy, I asked him "Please close your eyes."

:05:07.:05:08.

He always was looking up with open eyes, even when he should relax

:05:09.:05:16.

and breathe deeper, because he said the pictures,

:05:17.:05:18.

the bad pictures can start running the moment the eyes are closed.

:05:19.:05:24.

After their first session last year, Axel von Maltitz wrote

:05:25.:05:26.

an extensive psychological assessment.

:05:27.:05:27.

Daleel, he said, was a man filled with anger and hopelessness,

:05:28.:05:30.

and in an observation that now seems prophetic he wrote...

:05:31.:05:40.

Mr Daleel is an extreme spirit, and it's possible that he even

:05:41.:05:42.

puts his suicide into a spectacular scenery.

:05:43.:05:48.

In 2013, Daleel gave an interview to Bulgarian television.

:05:49.:05:51.

He told reporters he had been injured in a rocket attack

:05:52.:05:54.

on his home in Aleppo, an attack in which his wife

:05:55.:05:57.

He also alleged he had been mistreated in Bulgarian detention.

:05:58.:06:04.

Von Maltitz's psychological assessment made its way to the

:06:05.:06:06.

They quietly dropped their threat to deport Daleel, who continued

:06:07.:06:17.

living at a hostel in Ansbach while receiving treatment

:06:18.:06:19.

Then, on 13th July, he received another deportation notice.

:06:20.:06:22.

Ten days later, he would blow himself up.

:06:23.:06:34.

Most important that happened was that he got a letter telling,

:06:35.:06:37.

Sure, because that is always what he promised.

:06:38.:06:46.

That is what I warned the officers for.

:06:47.:06:52.

"Be careful with him if he has to be deported to Bulgaria."

:06:53.:06:59.

It is impossible to say whether Mohammed Daleel's

:07:00.:07:00.

imminent deportation acted as some sort of trigger.

:07:01.:07:02.

Investigators have told me they are not ruling out

:07:03.:07:04.

the possibility that he may have been in contact with Jihadist groups

:07:05.:07:07.

But they do say that his communication online with people

:07:08.:07:11.

purporting to represent Islamic State was a relatively

:07:12.:07:13.

recent development, and that in the minutes before

:07:14.:07:21.

he detonated his bomb he was communicating with

:07:22.:07:23.

The German security services are working to identify two

:07:24.:07:31.

different types of potential Islamic State attack.

:07:32.:07:41.

One, co-ordinated, IS-led, of the type we saw

:07:42.:07:43.

The other, the self-radicalising lone wolf.

:07:44.:07:48.

Mohammed Daleel, they believe, falls into the second category.

:07:49.:07:52.

Mohammed Daleel managed to kill only himself.

:07:53.:08:30.

From an Islamic State point of view, this was a botched operation.

:08:31.:08:34.

But if he had managed to get through into this square,

:08:35.:08:38.

which at the time was packed with 2,500 concert goers,

:08:39.:08:41.

if he had managed to detonate his bomb properly,

:08:42.:08:43.

this could have been a very, very deadly attack indeed.

:08:44.:08:49.

And that is why Germany is feeling so vulnerable right now.

:08:50.:08:52.

For many Germans, last summer's outpouring of good will

:08:53.:08:54.

towards refugees has given way to suspicion and resentment.

:08:55.:09:34.

For his therapy, Mohammed Daleel travelled from Ansbach

:09:35.:09:36.

He used to ride his bike along the shores of the lake.

:09:37.:09:43.

Across the water, Switzerland, Austria, Liechtenstein.

:09:44.:09:44.

His next session was pencilled in for 1st August.

:09:45.:09:48.

Across the water, Switzerland, Austria, Liechtenstein.

:09:49.:09:52.

Across the water, Switzerland, Austria, Lichtenstein.

:09:53.:09:54.

His next session was pencilled in for 1st August.

:09:55.:09:56.

Much of what he said in the therapy room cannot be verified.

:09:57.:10:00.

His role in the opposition, the torture, the wife and child.

:10:01.:10:03.

Did you get a sense you believed him?

:10:04.:10:04.

Mohammed Daleel was the first Islamic State-inspired suicide

:10:05.:10:41.

But everyone who knew him said he never seemed particularly religious.

:10:42.:10:49.

So, are we giving too much credence to IS for an attack they may have

:10:50.:10:55.

We don't know all the facts, and we probably never will,

:10:56.:10:59.

but from what we do know, it is clear that Mohammed Daleel

:11:00.:11:01.

He was neither just a would-be Jihadist mass murderer,

:11:02.:11:08.

nor was he simply a mentally disturbed victim of war.

:11:09.:11:15.

His case raises difficult questions for German society

:11:16.:11:21.

and beyond about attitudes to refugees, about violence

:11:22.:11:26.

and mental health, and about what it means to call something

:11:27.:11:28.

Now I'm joined by Sajda Mughal, a 7/7 survivor who became

:11:29.:11:40.

a de-radicalisation expert, and Andrew Silke, who has advised

:11:41.:11:43.

Good evening. Unpicking this idea of no simple biepryes Is there a

:11:44.:11:55.

profile a psychological profile who for someone who has radicalised to

:11:56.:11:59.

the point of an tact? There isn't a single profile and people will love

:12:00.:12:04.

if there was, that clearly described every terrorist and suicide bomber

:12:05.:12:07.

but there isn't oneches and instead what we have is a series of profiles

:12:08.:12:11.

and so we have different types of terrorists, and because of that, we

:12:12.:12:16.

don't have a single root cause for why people become involved. Mental

:12:17.:12:20.

illness gets flagged up in cases like this, but the reality most

:12:21.:12:23.

terrorists don't have a history of mental illn't so we can't look at

:12:24.:12:28.

that and see this is the key reason. I have to agree there is not one

:12:29.:12:32.

single factor that leads someone to radicalisation. I have been working

:12:33.:12:37.

on this issue and I have worked with a large number of individuals who

:12:38.:12:41.

have been at risk of radicalisation, mainly young people and I know

:12:42.:12:44.

people who have been radicalised and there are a number of factor,

:12:45.:12:49.

whether it is socioeconomic or whether it is personal grievance.

:12:50.:12:54.

What I was going to say, but there is a big difference, between someone

:12:55.:12:58.

who is suicidal and someone intent on committing suicide and taking

:12:59.:13:02.

people with them. There is a difference for but when we look at

:13:03.:13:07.

this specific case, there were obviously mental health issues there

:13:08.:13:09.

and the questions that I have been left with, when watching the

:13:10.:13:14.

documentary was in terms of of the support the individual was

:13:15.:13:17.

receiving, where they receiving adequate support, there are

:13:18.:13:21.

questions round that, but also questions round who the person was,

:13:22.:13:26.

they were calling in Saudi, and also the internet, you had one of the

:13:27.:13:30.

authorities I think the representatives from Bulgaria who

:13:31.:13:32.

mentioned the internet. Again, with my own experience and research, the

:13:33.:13:36.

internet is playing a part in terms of radicalisation.

:13:37.:13:42.

Do you think IS has changed that, changed the way that radicalisation

:13:43.:13:44.

happens, changed the modus operandi. I think that IS are trying to

:13:45.:13:52.

exploit the internet and opportunities. They are

:13:53.:13:56.

opportunistic. And claim credit for anyone that they can.

:13:57.:13:59.

Do you think in your experience that they focus on people vulnerable? I

:14:00.:14:05.

think that IS are very, no the in the sense of a Machiavellian paster

:14:06.:14:09.

mind in trying to reach and manipulate vulnerable people,

:14:10.:14:13.

looking at the UK experience, ten, 12 years ago, we had the type of

:14:14.:14:18.

charismatic recruiters who were active and out there in society in

:14:19.:14:22.

some places but they have disappeared and shifted into the

:14:23.:14:25.

background. That is very much with IS. I don't think that they have

:14:26.:14:30.

recruiters trying to manipulate people. They are producing

:14:31.:14:34.

propaganda and hoping that an audience receives it.

:14:35.:14:38.

It is hard to work out the depths of the radicalisation. Yes, somebody

:14:39.:14:43.

says that this is for IS but no idea how it is a late radicalisation, or

:14:44.:14:50.

if it was one at all? With this case it was at later stage but I disagree

:14:51.:14:57.

with Andrew in terms of IS and vulnerable groups with my own

:14:58.:15:00.

experience of working with groups of people at risk and publishing a

:15:01.:15:06.

paper on extremism in 2012 we say that there are vulnerable groups

:15:07.:15:11.

that recruiters such as IS pick on. So those with mental health issues,

:15:12.:15:15.

young people, women, and university students.

:15:16.:15:21.

Andrew? I disagree. I think a lot of people with mental health issues are

:15:22.:15:29.

flagged up. There could be 40 or 50% that Channel are working with have

:15:30.:15:33.

mental health issues but people committed with mental health Irishes

:15:34.:15:39.

very few have these problems. People with mental health issues are

:15:40.:15:42.

flagged up with concern but few make it all the way to become terrorists.

:15:43.:15:48.

They are people who are in a sense easy to pick on as being vulnerable.

:15:49.:15:53.

But then there is a decision about the different methods used to

:15:54.:15:58.

counter this. Would you say that the prevent strategy of ideology is a

:15:59.:16:02.

reasonable one? I say we have to look at ideology. To look at it, yes

:16:03.:16:07.

why. There are some individuals who have been radicalised and are at

:16:08.:16:14.

risk. I have worked with them, they have possessed incorrect Islamic

:16:15.:16:21.

ideology. So we have to look at ideology and factors, international

:16:22.:16:26.

grievances, the rise of Islamophobia, alienation, to look at

:16:27.:16:30.

radicalisation broadly and look at mental health. Especially those

:16:31.:16:34.

suffering from mental health. Why? Because if you have a group

:16:35.:16:38.

providing an individual with a sense of belonging, a sense of importance,

:16:39.:16:42.

they can be drawn into that. What is the best way in your view? I

:16:43.:16:47.

agree to look at a range of factors. It is not a one factor problem.

:16:48.:16:54.

What about ideology? It is a facilitator but necessarily

:16:55.:16:56.

important. For me the post important thing is identity. Where the

:16:57.:17:00.

individual's sense of identity lies. It tells me about the vulnerability

:17:01.:17:05.

toed a cadisation than necessarily the ideology that exists. Many of

:17:06.:17:10.

the convicted terrorists I have met with video a poor understanding of

:17:11.:17:15.

the understanding of the cause it is simple, naive in many respects. But

:17:16.:17:20.

what is key is the sense of identity and a sense of connection to the

:17:21.:17:22.

cause. Thank you very much.

:17:23.:17:24.

Lawyers will be the real winners in Labour's endless court battles

:17:25.:17:27.

to sort out who can and cannot vote in the leadership contest.

:17:28.:17:30.

As of tonight, people who joined the Labour party after January 12th

:17:31.:17:33.

Today, three Appeal Court judges ruled in favour of the NEC

:17:34.:17:37.

and overturned the previous ruling that swept away a ban on recruits -

:17:38.:17:40.

estimated to be 125,000 - who joined the party after January

:17:41.:17:43.

Members of Mr Corbyn's team said it was the wrong decision,

:17:44.:17:51.

Well, watching all this from the sidelines, in a week

:17:52.:17:54.

where Labour's deputy leader has complained

:17:55.:17:56.

of "Trotskyite infiltration" - a claim vehemently denied

:17:57.:17:57.

The former deputy leader of Liverpool City Council

:17:58.:18:07.

was expelled from the party in the early 80s for being a member

:18:08.:18:10.

Good evening. Thank you very much for joining us. What do you make of

:18:11.:18:24.

the ruling? When you think about it, 130,000 people joined the Labour

:18:25.:18:27.

Party. A letter from the General Secretary, and told that they could

:18:28.:18:30.

vote for the leader. Then that decision was changed.

:18:31.:18:34.

Now it was changed for a reason reason--the reason being that they

:18:35.:18:37.

thought that the vast majority of them would vote for Jeremy Corbyn,

:18:38.:18:41.

probably true. But for them all of a sudden to say democracy is OK as

:18:42.:18:46.

long as it is the right way, is verging on political corruption to

:18:47.:18:51.

be honest. This week, Tom Watson said: Old

:18:52.:18:59.

hands twist young articles. That's how Trotsky's interests operate. Are

:19:00.:19:04.

trots ski infiltrating the Labour Party? I really don't know what

:19:05.:19:09.

happened to him. I think he has lost it. The reality is that we are

:19:10.:19:13.

talking about hundreds of thousands of people. They don't get their arms

:19:14.:19:17.

twisted. They are people delighted that they are seeing a Labour Party

:19:18.:19:20.

going in a particular way. Where they have seen in the past it has

:19:21.:19:25.

gone the wrong way, now they are in a position to say that there is

:19:26.:19:29.

light at the end of the tunnel. That is encouraging.

:19:30.:19:34.

Why is he saying that? I don't understand. I whole lot of MPs are

:19:35.:19:39.

getting worried. They are seeing the writing on the wall. Not only MPs.

:19:40.:19:43.

But the media are getting worried. What makes me laugh is that we are

:19:44.:19:48.

told all the time that Jeremy Corbyn is unelectable. If that is the case,

:19:49.:19:53.

then the likes of the Mail, the Express, to the Daily Telegraph, and

:19:54.:19:57.

to a degree the BBC, who have supported the Tory policies, that

:19:58.:20:01.

they would be saying this is great, allowing it to happen... Let's talk

:20:02.:20:06.

about your position as far as the Labour Party is concerns, would you

:20:07.:20:10.

like to be part of it? The reason why they are vicious on the attacks

:20:11.:20:15.

on Jeremy Corbyn is because they see that he is electable and pushing

:20:16.:20:18.

forward policies that they are frightened off. My position? I tried

:20:19.:20:24.

to join the Labour Party after 31 years, when was it just after the

:20:25.:20:28.

general election. I got a letter saying "yes", I was a member. I got

:20:29.:20:33.

a membership card. Then three weeks letter saying it had to go to the

:20:34.:20:38.

NEC. I am waiting. But at the end of the day the reality is for 30 years

:20:39.:20:44.

I have never voted for anyone else but Labour never joined another

:20:45.:20:48.

political party, nor campaigned for another party that is the case.

:20:49.:20:53.

Do you want back in? Being a member is irrelevant. The support is

:20:54.:20:57.

important. I have never supported anyone other than the Labour Party.

:20:58.:21:02.

Does Jeremy Corbyn want you back in? Ask him. I have not spoken to him

:21:03.:21:07.

for a good while. Do you see parallels as to what is

:21:08.:21:12.

happening now and the 19-80s? There are. But then Neil Kinnock bullied a

:21:13.:21:19.

lot of people in the councils to go against people in the '80s. Now

:21:20.:21:24.

there is no Neil Kinnock. And B, there is not one council. But an

:21:25.:21:29.

entire movement. That is a very different situation. They are trying

:21:30.:21:35.

everything, bullying through the courts, bullying by using the press

:21:36.:21:39.

and at the end of the day more and more people are joining the Labour

:21:40.:21:42.

Party. And ironically enough, that up until the time that the MPs

:21:43.:21:46.

started this coup, Labour was starting to get to a position where

:21:47.:21:50.

it was starting to tie with the Tories, increasing in popularity.

:21:51.:21:55.

And people saying yes, Jeremy Corbyn is electable, he could be the next

:21:56.:21:57.

Prime Minister. That frightens so many people.

:21:58.:22:01.

Derek Hatton thank you very much for joining us.

:22:02.:22:02.

When we see film of Aleppo, the biggest city in Syria,

:22:03.:22:06.

it's hard to comprehend the visceral hardships, the hunger

:22:07.:22:08.

As a young doctor there told Newsnight last week,

:22:09.:22:12.

it's almost impossible to sleep, not least because you worry that

:22:13.:22:14.

But people are desperate to have some normality,

:22:15.:22:18.

and one such person is Abdulkafi Alhamdo,

:22:19.:22:19.

a professor of English at Aleppo University.

:22:20.:22:21.

He still tries to get to work, and his students too,

:22:22.:22:24.

all the while in fear of a barrel bomb attack, or an air strike.

:22:25.:22:27.

I spoke to him on Skype earlier this evening,

:22:28.:22:29.

and we asked him to take some photographs for us this afternoon

:22:30.:22:32.

Of course, we and many academic people here decided to stay and

:22:33.:22:56.

teach those people who could not have a chance to study in other

:22:57.:23:02.

places. All of those people who wanted to live here, who decided

:23:03.:23:07.

that it would be a challenge to the situation.

:23:08.:23:12.

So I will keep teaching here at the university. I will teach these

:23:13.:23:16.

students who need someone to teach them.

:23:17.:23:20.

Tell me, how dangerous is it for you to get to university each day? Yeah,

:23:21.:23:26.

I mean, when I get to the university, my wife will get worried

:23:27.:23:32.

until I am back. Of course when I get out to the university I will be

:23:33.:23:37.

worried about my wife and my six-month-old daughter.

:23:38.:23:41.

Tell me about the difficult journey that the students make to get to

:23:42.:23:47.

you. How difficult is it for them? Some students have to walk an hour

:23:48.:23:52.

to arrive at the university. Some of the bombs are cluster bombs. Even

:23:53.:24:00.

when they were doing their exams, many bombs, many rockets fell

:24:01.:24:03.

aboutside us. Are other areas of the city not so

:24:04.:24:12.

badly bombed? I can say that my why exactly is not that dangerous

:24:13.:24:17.

according to the other quarters. Because my quarter is so close to

:24:18.:24:29.

that front line. By the way my ball Connie is open to air snipers.

:24:30.:24:34.

We understand that there are 15 doctors left in the area of Aleppo

:24:35.:24:40.

for 300,000 people. Even the normal things for your daughter getting

:24:41.:24:44.

sick at the age of six months, you must pray that does not happen? I

:24:45.:24:48.

want to tell you something, the day before yesterday when the chlorine

:24:49.:24:52.

attack, me and my wife, my daughter, we were affected by the attack. But

:24:53.:24:58.

I couldn't go to that hospitals as they were full of the attack. About

:24:59.:25:03.

100 people were injured. So I could not go as I know that people would

:25:04.:25:07.

not help me. Give me a sense of the route you

:25:08.:25:12.

sent us, a route you would take to buy food. What is it like to go

:25:13.:25:18.

along the street to get food? My road, everything is destroyed. Some

:25:19.:25:26.

people live in this area. But every now and then I would hide as the

:25:27.:25:30.

plane is above me. How do you live with death so close

:25:31.:25:40.

the whole time? We used to living with such danger. Death is

:25:41.:25:45.

everywhere. Now we wake up in the morning and I open my mobile to see

:25:46.:25:51.

and read that my friend died, that my colleague died, my student died.

:25:52.:25:57.

I take it as usual things. I go to those people. I say sorry to their

:25:58.:26:01.

families. And then I continue my life. This is how we live here.

:26:02.:26:08.

You sent us an image of a little boy looking happy eating a raw

:26:09.:26:11.

vegetable. Tell me about that picture. What does it say about

:26:12.:26:18.

Aleppo? Today I could eat for the first time in 40 days, I could eat

:26:19.:26:25.

tomatoes, I was so happy I could take a selfie with the tomorrowatow.

:26:26.:26:31.

All of the people here are so happy as for 40 days, imagine I could not

:26:32.:26:38.

even see a vegetable or a tomato. A vegetable, of any kind. So all

:26:39.:26:42.

people are happy to see that and to eat and taste such a thing. I think

:26:43.:26:48.

these are the most delicious vegetables and fruits that I have

:26:49.:26:54.

eaten in all my life. Obviously this three-hour aid

:26:55.:26:58.

corridor is important. Especially for the children to get nourishment?

:26:59.:27:04.

Russia is said that they will have a ceasefire of 40 hours. But we don't

:27:05.:27:09.

have this ceasefire. They are continuing to bomb every now and

:27:10.:27:17.

then but still the cars could come into Aleppo.

:27:18.:27:21.

Tell me if you could leave, would you, or would you stay in Aleppo?

:27:22.:27:26.

What we want only is freedom. We will not runaway. We will not leave

:27:27.:27:31.

this land for other people. Of course, sometimes yes. When we were

:27:32.:27:37.

under siege, sometimes I hold my daughter and I ask her Forsythe

:27:38.:27:44.

giveness as I have to stay here. I tell her -- I ask her for

:27:45.:27:50.

forgiveness. I have to stay here. She is only six months but I have to

:27:51.:28:00.

stay here. I will not leave her to know that I ran away simply. I

:28:01.:28:06.

stayed here as I wanted to stay. Maybe this affects her future but I

:28:07.:28:11.

can't leave and people will not leave, by the way.

:28:12.:28:14.

Thank you very much. Now, breaking news of a very happy

:28:15.:28:19.

kind. Bradley Wiggins has won gold along with his team in the men's

:28:20.:28:28.

cycling team pursuit. He has now won more medals in Great Britain Olympic

:28:29.:28:30.

On BBC2 now, a long time performer who's slumming it

:28:31.:28:33.

I'm sorry - that's actually tomorrow night, when I'll be reporting

:28:34.:28:37.

No, tonight, I'm afraid it's more from the burger-flecked bean bag

:28:38.:28:41.

of our Olympics correspondent, Stephen Smith.

:28:42.:28:42.

He's been sampling Brazilian cocktails with comedian Jenny Eclair

:28:43.:28:44.

My favourite bit is the Olympic flame.

:28:45.:28:48.

It is like the whole world getting together round a barbecue isn't it.

:28:49.:28:52.

Caipirinhas today, which is the national

:28:53.:28:54.

That will see me through a few hours of Olympic watching.

:28:55.:29:09.

I am hoping that the very large y-fronted underpants aren't

:29:10.:29:15.

Paxman, you know, when he complained about the elastic going.

:29:16.:29:23.

Very few women go back to the Olympics

:29:24.:29:34.

You feel sorry for the ones at the back.

:29:35.:29:44.

If I were her I would pretend to fall.

:29:45.:29:47.

Who is going to claim the gold medal in Rio,

:29:48.:29:49.

up to the line and the gold medal goes to Great Britain.

:29:50.:29:52.

It is a science, isn't it, with this.

:29:53.:30:00.

The old man has talked to me about this, and it sounds like this.

:30:01.:30:04.

Have you ever played to a half-empty house?

:30:05.:30:14.

Do you know, I have played so many half-empty houses they've had

:30:15.:30:16.

to say to me "We just had a change of venue.

:30:17.:30:19.

You know, like you were meant to be in the big hall tonight?

:30:20.:30:23.

We have put some chairs out in the foyer, are you OK with that?"

:30:24.:30:27.

That was uncharacteristic, that landing.

:30:28.:30:38.

There's not enough badly dismounted finishes being covered up.

:30:39.:30:40.

Their position is well and truly dominating here.

:30:41.:31:03.

These women will always be able to wear sleeveless.

:31:04.:31:06.

As long as they keep up a little bit

:31:07.:31:08.

Great Britain's Glover and Stanning defend their Olympic title

:31:09.:31:19.

I've enjoyed it so much, thank you for coming.

:31:20.:31:25.

Can't drink any more though, because I've got my middle-aged

:31:26.:31:28.

I am going to squeeze into a leotard so I will say thank you very much.

:31:29.:31:35.

The fabulous Jenni Eclair and Steve Smith.

:31:36.:31:52.

That's all we have time for - goodnight.

:31:53.:31:54.

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark.

On the programme, a German suicide bomber's therapist speaks, Derek Hatton on the Labour leadership, inside Aleppo with an English professor, and Steve Smith's Olympics.


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