18/08/2016 Newsnight

Tens of thousands of children have died horrific deaths

Can this desolate image of Omran Daqneesh, who miraculously

survived an air strike, help prevent further

I'll be asking our own Lyse Doucet, the International Rescue Committee,

and a war photographer in the Middle East.

Vote Labour to stay in the European Union and to have

The columnist, Rod Liddle, on why Labour holds no appeal

And who better to ask whether these have been a vintage

Oh, my God, we had the St John Ambulance

You might not know his name, but you will most likely know

what five-year-old Omran Daqneesh looks like - the traumatised,

bloodied and almost resigned looking little boy in the ambulance

after an air strike on a rebel-held neighbourhood

He stares at the camera as if to say - this is what is happening

to thousands of children because adults are making

The image has been viewed by millions,

but will it have any impact on the conflict in Syria?

Here's Secunder Kermani and his piece features

On average, one Syrian child has died every two hours for the past

five years. Most will never make the front pages of newspapers. But even

amongst the international weariness that is greeting the Syrian

conflict, these images from Aleppo still have the capacity to shock.

Five-year-old, Omran Daqneesh, is filmed by activists as he's rescued

from the rubble after an air strike on a rebel-held part of the city.

He is placed alone in the back of the ambulance. Despite the

devastation he's witnessed, he doesn't shout and scream, but

silently wipes his eyes. It's an awful image and it's gone around the

world, but it's far from unusual. Omran is very lucky because

the camera took the picture of him, but most of the kids

they were killed without any trace. They just pass away

and no-one knows them. Omran is very lucky because

the camera took the picture of him, Every day, when we go

to the locations, when we go to the bombing, most of the victims

are kids, are babies, The sign this boy is holding up

alongside a picture says, "save me" Activists have been trying to draw

the attention to the children's plight in Syria they have tried to

capitalise on the game pokeman Go. 400,000 people have been killed in

the conflict, it's believed. Some reports estimate that includes

20,000 children. The vast majority have been killed by the Assad

regime. Through its use of air strikes.

A meeting was cut short in frustration of the failure to allow

aid into the besieged areas. No humanitarian aid is reaching

anywhere in Syria. The Russians will allow a 4 #-hours truce next week.

Who would account against more terrible images appearing on you are

our scenes. The picture is being compared to the boy drowned in the

Mediterranean fleeing Syria. How much of a turning point in the

refugee crisis was that in the end? Here's one of the images being

shared online of the two of them together.

Omran Daqneesh is out of hospital now.

We're joined by Muhammed Muheisen, Associated Press Chief Photographer

for the Middle East and by Sanj Srikanthan,

the Director of Humanitarian Policy for the International Rescue

First, our chief international correspondent, Lyse Ducet.

This comes at a critical moment for Syria. What do you think? There is

only months left before Secretary of State John Kerry has to say - I did

my best, but I didn't succeed. He is giving it another push. It has been

months now that he has been talking, often alone, with Russia's Sergei

Lavrov to try to get some kind of a hes cessation of hostilties, a

truce, as they call it, to allow them to return to talks. The road to

any peace, if it's possible at all in Syria, goes through Moscow and

Washington. Will this image in its own way put pressure on Putin and

Obama? Everyone is mentioning it. John Kirby mentioned it at the state

department. Everyone is talking about it. What Syria needs now is

action. There is such a knot now, there is not a conflict in the world

now. He talk about it as being the worst conflict he has intervened in.

He intervened in a lot. You have Russia, the United States, you have

Iran all of the Gulf States. Kurds. The Syrians and the so-called

Islamic State and the groups linked to Al-Qaeda. If it's almost

intractable, Obama's got four months? John Kerry still says he

thinks there is a way out. He's known to be an optimist. The

Russians want to find a way out. To use the phrase - they don't want it

to become another Afghanistan. Aleppo is the prize in a very big

contest for a struggle for control in the Middle East. It's - for Syria

it's a devastating war, a proxy war, Caesarean war and a new cold war.

You have to stop all of them if you are going to stop it. Muhammed, as a

photographer, tell me what your reaction was to that image.

Presumably through your lens you see images like that practically every

day in Syria? It's a very sad. It's a haunting image. It's a single

image that tells the story of a five-year-old in a growing conflict.

That the power of photography or the power of this image. That this image

is trending right now. It's reaching the heart of the public and that's

the biggest recognition of a picture when it reaches the public and

people start to feel con nexted. If I'm a father and I have a child, I

would look at my child and say - I'm lucky we have a roof. As a

photographer, when you both see, when you take and see, as was in our

reporter's package there, images of many dead children in Syria, why is

this image of a survivor, in a way, been the one that has arrested

people's attention? This image shows a hopeless child, left alone in the

back of an ambulance in a way it tells - it talks about the whole

story. How the situation is hopeless. That the child was left

alone, waiting for help. It's a child. Children are the real victim

of this conflict. It's not just a picture, I think it's the whole

story by itself. I want to put that to you, first of all, now, Sanj

Srikanthan. Is the whole story because the children have no futures

if it's not resolved? That's right. They haven't had a future for five

years. They've lived through war. Over a million were born and have

liveded and only known conflict. So what was sad about that photo and

the video was that that child is beyond terror. He's in a place that

no child should be. He's been schooled in trying to avoid air

strikes and doing all those kind of things. We look at that image, we

wonder if it will make any difference. Do you think it will? We

know the image of the boy in the Mediterranean arrested the world's

attention. Only for a time. There is a window an opportunity to get a

ceasefire into places like Aleppo that haven't received aid since

early July. If that image can achieve that. That's not the

solution we are looking for, which is a permanent peace, it's

something. When we have... The fact is that little boy is sitting there.

We know people on both side of the divide are willing to put children

on the front-line anyway there is a cynicism, isn't there? Aid workers

are the most cynical of trying to do their best in these times, is that

both sides are more interested in winning the conflict than saving

children's lives. That's the sad true. Muhammed, are you very.

Aware when you're taking a photograph of the photograph that

might be counter into youively that might make a difference It depends.

What I believe... The importance of photography, the importance of being

there, that sometimes there are many events happen that wasn't captured

or documented, so it feels like it never happened. Luckily, this

picture was captured and went out there. This is also the importance

of journalism, photojournalism. If we have access to document things we

will see a lot of that. I believe there are dozens of images

happening, and no-one captured it. So it never made it out there. Do

you believe your work can make a difference Of course. Of course. I

think, simply, when the pictures start... Goes out there, people

start talking about it. It already created a change. It reached

people's hearts and minds. Changed people's way of looking and thinking

of things. Instead of thinking of Syria, now there is a name, there is

a killed call Omran. It makes people think. Instead of not what is

happening in Syria because it doesn't involve them right now.

People are aware there is a conflict going on. It's a reminder. It's a

reminder. Thank you very much. There will be a temptation, wouldn't

there, for aid agencies and so forth and different rescue missions to use

an image like this? I don't think we use the image, it's happening every

day. In fact, the photographer who took it said - I was surprised

because I take photos like this every day. It's the reality. I think

if people who watch the image and see the story behind it realise the

sacrifices, not just families are making, but the 35 remaining doctors

in Aleppo are making I think that's something worthy. We forget the

doctors are few and far between now. We should say that five children did

die today. Perhaps we shoulded have their image up as well? Images like

this they strike a chord with the public. It gives ammunition to the

would be peacemakers. Whether it's enough for the real ammunition on

the ground which grows more violent by the day is the question now.

Thank you all very. Indeed.

On Newsnight last night, we revealed that the gap in funding

for the Garden Bridge was far bigger than the Trust had previously

admitted - some ?56 million, rather than ?32 million.

The Chairman of the Trustees, Lord Mervyn Davies, told Evan

that the project had become more expensive and also that the bridge

would not be open in 2018, but rather 2019.

But straight away this morning, the Trust issued a statement

The statement was one thing, straight after the programme, the

second was the language of the statement? Absolutely. It used

phrases like, "this is a crucial time" it was pleading with the

Government not to withdraw its support - It "would be a tragedy"?

Exactly. A tragedy perhaps for the taxpayer who has already spent ?36

million, that is never coming back. Infect, what the Trust was saying

was that, if the Government doesn't agree to extend an existing

arrangement where it's underwriting the project, then it's doomed. There

was a real sense of worry, of nervousness. On the part of the

Trust. Hands up the back? There is a lot of money to raise there. Are

other existing hurdles. Also, viewers might remember that last

months Newsnight explained that the mood in Government towards this

project is cooler than it has been. The London Mayor has voiced

concerns? The London Mayor and George Osborne, one of its greatest

fans have gone. Whitehall sources told us today that they reject the

idea that the fate of the bridge is in their hands. They say that's not

fair. In fact, it's the Trust who have to get a hold of this project.

It's for them to say if they can make it work and for them to

ultimately pull the plug if they can't. It's seems an unhappy

partnership at the moment. Are the Trust looking for more money from

the Government? That's an interesting question. We we don't

quite know. One of the things about this project is, it's so secretive,

maybe too strong a word. There is so little information out there.

Opaque? Opaque. Little information in the public domain. The Trust have

been quite clear about what they're asking. This is how they described

the current situation: But our understanding is that the

government is less clear about that. They are concerned that if they

agreed to extend the underwriting for another year, they could be

liable for more money. We are told categorically there is no more. They

have pledged ?30 million and that is it. They said they are not in the

business of backing white elephants. The future of the bridge is still

uncertain. Thank you for joining us. When the Labour Party meets

for its annual conference in Liverpool next month,

there will be a "me and my political shadow" moment -

well, the whole four days actually. Momentum will be in town and both

Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell will be preparing two speeches each

- one for the Labour conference delegates,

the other for Momentum's membership. For the writer and sometimes

splenetic columnist, Rod Liddle, this might be the moment that

sends him over the edge, as he ponders on why Labour's

lost its way and its working-class He begins his report

for Newsnight in Middlesborough, This is Teesside,

about as resolutely, uncompromisingly Labour

as anywhere in the country. And yet like almost all

working-class areas beyond London, Teesside is rapidly

becoming disenchanted with the party Brexit was a real

glorious revolution, a sort of cri de coeur

on the part of people who felt

marginalised, unlistened to and increasingly averse from the liberal

politics of both the Establishment, and crucially, for this

issue, the Labour Party. Because while this

is Brexit heartland -

70% voted to Leave in Hartlepool over the water,

66% back there in Middlesbrough -

it is not just about that. It's also about having

respect for the family, for the country, a sense of

patriotism and belief in Britain. It's about doing a fair day's work

for a fair day's pay and also not being paid welfare -

if you don't give, you don't get. The current Labour Party is largely

immune to the aspirations of ordinary

working-class voters, when it is not I thought I'd present

a cheerful parody of Labour's current mindset

to the people of my hometown. In exactly the spot,

as it happens, where I once sold The Socialist Worker

as an imbecilic youth. Vote Labour to stay

in the European Union and to Bring the experience

of Islington to Middlesbrough. Vote Labour for Fairtrade coffee,

muesli, solidarity with Cuba, peace, love,

happiness everywhere Are you a Labour voter?

No. Have you always voted Labour?

Always. And do you like Labour now

under Jeremy Corbyn? To tell you the truth,

I don't like any of them. Do you think they are out of touch

with the Do you think we need more

immigration in this country? You're having a laugh, aren't you?

More? Sir, what we want in this country

is more immigration, correct? The power in the Labour

Party has not resided These days, it lives

somewhere else entirely. This is Islington, of course,

and this is my granola, pistachio and blueberry

porridge with Greek yoghurt. This is Jeremy Corbyn's neck

of the woods, of course. At one point under Jeremy,

there were three members of his Shadow Cabinet from Islington

itself, more than in the entire I don't know if that

is still true today because I don't know who's

in the Shadow Cabinet. One minute they're there,

the next minute they're sobbing their hearts out

on The World At One. The place has become a sort

of byword, a cliche, which somehow represents

the distance between Labour I'm here to meet someone who might

offer the party a little hope. Lord Glassman, architect

of New Labour, and adviser Why is Labour in the trouble

it's in, do you think? Well, it's just lost its

relationship with the working class, and with working-class leadership,

with working-class values and And that's what we are seeing

is supposed to be Labour. How it happened has been

a long time coming. It was always a coalition

between the progressive middle-class, reforming,

Fabian and more conservative socially and more economically

radical working-class. But over the years,

the sort of university Social democrats across Europe

are facing a really difficult strategic dilemma because on the one

hand, they have half of their electorate or so that is comprised

of traditional, blue-collar workers. On the other hand, they've got

urban, middle-class, cosmopolitan, And those two groups think

fundamentally differently about the key issues of the day,

in particular immigration It's sort of Labour's

Clause Four for today. The activists and many of the MPs

won't go near it because of course, that massed ovine middle-class bleat

of "racist" as soon as you raise the issue of immigration will be

forthcoming from them. And yet, there's no antipathy

in these places in the north The antipathy is towards the people

who allowed uncontrolled immigration to change the culture of their towns

and also to undercut their wages. And yet, the problems

in the party seem intractable. A leader without the

support of his MPs. MPs without the support

of the activists. And the activists miles out

of step with the voters. He was a Labour Party member until

he was suspended earlier this year pending investigation. Barbara Ntumy

from Momentum joined us as well. What do you make of Rod Liddle's

analysis? I think it is stuck in a narrative that he's trying to

create. I grew up in Barnsley, a working-class town and in the same

way as you have Islington, which is consistently rated one of the

poorest and most deprived areas in the country, in Barnsley, you have a

place where more affluent and well off the bowling as opposed to the

General working-class. The idea that just because people live in North

London and in Jeremy's constituency, they don't understand what ordinary

working class people go through is just nonsense. But Owen Jones, a

supporter of Jeremy Corbyn said what he said was the party has got to

deal with anxieties over immigration. Do you accept there are

anxieties? Since 1940, every party in this country has sought to

restrict immigration at the expense of immigrants. Immigrants you don't

make laws on and enforce them cannot be blamed for low wages. The

government has to enforce the wage and the law. I don't understand

where this narrative... Actually, I do understand where this narrative

comes from, with constructed narrative and found someone else to

blame for the back employers are not willing to pay what wages are. But

you accept that what we might call some traditional Labour supporters

have anxieties over immigration? Their communities are being

irrevocably changed. When we say traditional Labour voters, black

people who have come from this country since the 1940s have been

traditional Labour voters. Do their concerns when it comes to inequality

and being able to access jobs not matter? Rod Liddle, the fact is

whatever Brexit does, it doesn't... No one is going to be repatriated so

in effect, that is not the issue. The issue is going to be jobs and

wages. That is what Labour supporters are about. Lets put to

rest the idea that this is a key of some kind because between 7019 80%

of people in the country what immigration restricted, every

opinion poll going back over the last ten years shows that.

Increasingly, a greater proportion of black and ethnic minority

immigrants want immigration restrained, more than 50%. The idea

that this is just some old-fashioned, old hack, harking

back to the old days is absurd. It is an absurdity. I find it slightly

hilarious that someone who is a radical, a Labour Party radical, on

the left wing of the party, should be so fervently in favour of the

free movement of labour and capital. If you knew your marks, you would

not be in favour of that. It is the thing which depreciates the wages of

the lowest paid and it is also obviously the being who -- to the

grotesque exploitation of the immigrant labour force which we see

everyday in the newspapers. Rod Liddle is right, it has affected low

skilled workers? That has always existed. This is not new. What we

should be doing it again, in the way the European Union provides, legal

routes for people to come to do low skilled wages but actually, the

issue is, when you have a town like my Barnsley which gets barely any

investment and creates jobs, the opportunities for people are to in

the bread factory, the fashion factory or the check in factory.

Those are the options. College funding has been consistently

slashed. What other opportunities are there for people? You don't

blame someone who's left everything in Europe to come and work in a low

skilled cleaning job in a hospital. Are you saying that Labour

supporters who do think immigration is an issue need to be re-educated?

I'm not saying we need to be re-educated. People react to their

realities but actually come immigrants aren't the problem. The

fact we're not creating more opportunities for people to progress

and get access to education and better is the problem. The

government needs to do that. Where I think Barbara is absolutely right is

about the levels of investment which this government has put into places

like Barnsley and a lot of the North of England. It has been lamentable.

Something needs to be done. A new Labour programme would devolve more

power to the region and put far more investment into them. But I think it

is cloud cuckoo land to believe that... To try to say that

immigration hasn't cause these problems. I didn't say that

immigration hasn't caused these problems. I said it is not the sole

purpose of the narrative that you like to say that it is. What is the

problem with demonising groups of people? That is what it is because

when you get on TV and you say people are coming here to work three

or four jobs in order to provide and their families... You misunderstand.

You misunderstand and that is the problem. I can't speak and this is

pointless. The point is that people should have opportunities which this

government has failed to do. That is painted nonsense. I'm not demonising

immigrants whatsoever and I wouldn't. I think the immigrants who

come here worked very hard and I'm deeply opposed to David Cameron's

plans to withdraw benefits from them, for example, like Polish

immigrants, I think it's disgusting. People should be treated equally by

the fact is, successive reports have shown that large-scale immigration

and the larger scale, the worse it is, depresses the wages of the

poorest people. People who have fought for years to have a decent

stab dog living. Per the closing minutes, you characterise Momentum

as being a party of the middle-class kind of liberals, the Islington set.

Actually, Momentum, you have to say, is a broad swathe of support in all

areas of England. Well, it's certainly got a broad suite of... It

controls the Labour Party. There is no question about it, it controls

the Labour Party. I would probably agree with Barbara that I don't

think Jeremy Corbyn should have been challenged in the leadership

election. He was democratically elected, for whatever fatuous

reason, the party was opened up to hundreds of thousands... The reason

why Jeremy was elected was because he does speak to those working class

people in Middlesbrough because he's talking about investment. He really

doesn't. There is no appetite whatsoever for Jeremy Corbyn. He

talks about cradle to the grave education that people are not able

to have now. Does he continually talk over other people as well?

Labour is gaining more working-class voters under him. 28% in the polls.

One accusation I want to put, is Rod Liddle said, Momentum controls the

Labour Party. It does. Labour Party members control the Labour Party.

They are the people who are active and involved. I'm a member of the

Labour Party. I don't disagree, I think that is fair, I think I be mad

Labour has been taken over largely by Momentum and people who support

Jeremy Corbyn -- Jeremy Corbyn. I don't have an argument about that

but the fact he's deeply unattractive to any bird in the

north of the country... But we are allowed to organise. We are going to

leave it there. Of course you are. Thank you for joining us.

True story - our special Olympics feature, Throne of Games,

was only meant to be a test broadcast, to put the new

BBC transmitter at Theydon Bois through its paces.

But then it snowballed into a phenomenon, with one leading

critic describing it as "must-flee television."

Tonight our man, Stephen Smith, is joined by wine queen,

as he soaks up more Brazilian culture from

Stephen Smith, a smudge of chalk on the leotard

I've got the noted wine expert Jilly Goolden

coming here in a minute and no hospitality budget.

Still, although I'm not officially qualified

as a sommelier, how hard can it be?

I've got something for you here, Jilly.

Here we are, Jilly, here's some wine I made...

I'm getting base notes of licorice, jasmine

My God, we had the St John's ambulance here for Angela Rippon,

Brazil's got a big handicap when it comes to making wine in that most

That looks like the wrap party for Food and Drink.

Well, if you've got it, flaunt it, I suppose.

Is it true that you were the first person to bring

I decided to describe it in terms of everyday sense and flavours.

So my best one was the gamay grape which makes Beaujolais,

and that smells just like trainers running on hot tarmac.

This is a bit more like the inside of the trainers,

Trainers! Very Olympic.

I'm not sure we know how to respond to this as a nation.

We are used to being slightly rubbish and plucky losers.

I hope we don't get too pumped up, actually.

I quite like the sort of modest Brits.

Fifth in the World Championship final this year.

A consistent performer, reached the semifinals

They must do lots of practising for falling off.

Of all sports, which would you like to be the top athlete in?

I can see myself in the dressage with all the gear.

We'd be in it together because that would be mine.

They'd have to give us some credit for that,

Percent of the inside of trainers X Mac that's all we have time for

tonight. Good night. -- the scent of the inside of trainers!

After a wet start to the day in Northern Ireland, improving into the