19/08/2016 Newsnight


19/08/2016

How has Brazil managed the Olympics? Newsnight speaks to former Brazilian president Lula. Plus atrocities in South Sudan, a Trump campaign shake-up and an Olympic round-up.


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The Games are nearly over, so how did Rio do?

:00:00.:00:00.

For two weeks, Brazil has been the centre of the world.

:00:07.:00:09.

We sat down with the country's former president, Lula da Silva.

:00:10.:00:33.

Aid workers were targeted in South Sudan last month.

:00:34.:00:36.

Their harrowing stories can tonight be told for the first time.

:00:37.:00:40.

This sort of acted like a trigger for the soldier

:00:41.:00:43.

Two shots were fired and he immediately fell to the ground.

:00:44.:00:48.

Donald Trump's campaign manager is out.

:00:49.:00:50.

Can Trump pull his Presidential bid back from the brink of defeat?

:00:51.:00:53.

And Steve Smith takes to his Olympic sofa for the last time.

:00:54.:01:02.

Wouldn't it be great to have a synchronised swimmer

:01:03.:01:04.

He'll drag you underwater and do all kinds of

:01:05.:01:08.

If they awarded medals for Olympic Games organisation,

:01:09.:01:32.

would Rio get gold, silver, bronze or no place at all on the podium?

:01:33.:01:37.

The grimmest predictions of chaos, even carnage, haven't come

:01:38.:01:40.

true, but Brazil remains a country in crisis.

:01:41.:01:43.

Already beset by economic turmoil and political scandal,

:01:44.:01:45.

when the bunting's down and Usain Bolt and co have bolted,

:01:46.:01:50.

it may be left in an even sorrier state than before.

:01:51.:01:54.

In a moment an exclusive Newsnight interview with Lula da Silva,

:01:55.:01:57.

Brazil's former President - the man who brought the Olympics

:01:58.:02:02.

to the country himself now facing corruption allegations.

:02:03.:02:04.

But first, a look at the Brazil lurking behind

:02:05.:02:06.

It has the fifth largest population in the world.

:02:07.:02:21.

For 12 years it was one of the fastest-growing

:02:22.:02:27.

The "B" of those BRIC countries that Goldman Sachs said would be

:02:28.:02:32.

at the vanguard of a global economic shift, and despite warnings

:02:33.:02:35.

that they wouldn't be ready for the Olympics,

:02:36.:02:37.

Albeit with a couple of garish green swimming pools.

:02:38.:02:44.

But behind the glamour of the Games, Brazil is fighting a financial

:02:45.:02:47.

crisis, the Zika epidemic and waves of popular protests.

:02:48.:02:51.

A high-level investigation - Operation Car Wash -

:02:52.:02:55.

is delving into allegations of money laundering and corruption

:02:56.:02:57.

in the state-controlled oil company, Petrobras.

:02:58.:03:01.

The country now has a budget deficit standing at 10%

:03:02.:03:04.

of its GDP and 11 million people are unemployed.

:03:05.:03:09.

35% of the population live in poverty and the country records

:03:10.:03:13.

nearly 60,000 violent deaths every year.

:03:14.:03:17.

The president, Dilma Rousseff, is currently suspended,

:03:18.:03:19.

accused of obstructing justice and facing impeachment

:03:20.:03:23.

for alleged financial mismanagement of the economy.

:03:24.:03:26.

Her mentor, former president Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva ruled over

:03:27.:03:30.

He started work as a shoeshine boy and street vendor, rising to power

:03:31.:03:36.

A left-wing populist praised by President Obama,

:03:37.:03:42.

he oversaw the bid to bring the Olympic Games to Rio and won

:03:43.:03:45.

the sort of approval ratings most international leaders can

:03:46.:03:48.

But now he, too, is charged with misconduct in the Operation

:03:49.:03:55.

He is being formally charged with trying to obstruct justice

:03:56.:03:59.

in the corruption scandal at the state oil company Petrobras.

:04:00.:04:04.

So, will his country's decline prove a precursor

:04:05.:04:08.

to his own or could there be a second post-Olympic act

:04:09.:04:11.

for the Brazilian economic miracle and a reputational resurrection

:04:12.:04:14.

BBC Brazil's Julia Carneiro spoke exclusively for Newsnight to former

:04:15.:04:23.

You've been formally charged for trying to obstruct

:04:24.:04:34.

justice in the corruption scandal at state oil

:04:35.:04:35.

company Petrobras, and now

:04:36.:04:36.

you have appealed to the United Nations, to the Human Rights

:04:37.:04:39.

Why did you decide to go to the United Nations?

:04:40.:05:21.

You have been talking about a witchhunt from the

:05:22.:05:23.

media, from prosecutors, but on the other hand, you're also

:05:24.:05:27.

Is it not fair that these investigations be carried out?

:05:28.:06:04.

With the way things are going, do you fear being arrested?

:06:05.:06:55.

What was the legacy that you had envisioned

:06:56.:06:58.

from the Olympics, and how do you think things will be now,

:06:59.:07:01.

Many of Brazil's problems were exposed

:07:02.:08:25.

during the Olympic Games, like the lack

:08:26.:08:27.

were robbed - how do you think that this

:08:28.:08:32.

affected the image of the

:08:33.:08:33.

What made you proud and what embarrassed you?

:08:34.:09:08.

With the situation that we're seeing right

:09:09.:09:10.

now in the country, do you worry for Brazil in the next year?

:09:11.:09:39.

Thank you very much, President Lula.

:09:40.:09:47.

Already facing allegations of being a candidate without a campaign,

:09:48.:09:49.

Donald Trump today lost the man ostensibly in charge

:09:50.:09:51.

Paul Manafort, who became campaign chairman just two months

:09:52.:09:56.

ago after the previous incumbent was fired,

:09:57.:09:59.

resigned after the publication of revelations detailing his ties

:10:00.:10:04.

to pro-Russian interests and the former Ukrainian President,

:10:05.:10:06.

Shortly before coming on air, I spoke to our correspondent,

:10:07.:10:12.

Tom Burridge, who is in the Ukrainian capital,

:10:13.:10:14.

I asked him first whether, in the absence of a concrete reason

:10:15.:10:19.

for Manafort's resignation, it was likely that those

:10:20.:10:21.

Ukrainian connections had played a significant part.

:10:22.:10:26.

Yes, I think the primary reason is probably to do

:10:27.:10:29.

The Trump campaign nosediving for a shake-up and Paul Manafort goes.

:10:30.:10:35.

But the Ukrainian end of the thing hasn't been going away either.

:10:36.:10:38.

Essentially, Paul Manafort's name appears in these documents

:10:39.:10:42.

It is alleged to be a kind of black book, if you like,

:10:43.:10:48.

Paul Manafort's name appears 22 times on 19 pages.

:10:49.:10:53.

If you take the figures corresponding to the 22 entries

:10:54.:10:55.

with Paul Manafort's name, add up those figures

:10:56.:10:58.

of the 22 entries and you get a figure of $12.7 million.

:10:59.:11:02.

Now, there is no suggestion or evidence that Paul Manafort has

:11:03.:11:04.

received any of the money listed in these documents and in

:11:05.:11:08.

a statement earlier in the week he said that the idea

:11:09.:11:12.

that he received any cash payments is unfounded,

:11:13.:11:14.

But the anti-corruption bureau here in Ukraine and the MP

:11:15.:11:19.

who received these documents and has investigated is certain

:11:20.:11:21.

that they are kosher, that the documents are genuine.

:11:22.:11:25.

And all this, of course, unfolding against the backdrop

:11:26.:11:29.

of Mr Trump's relatively warm rhetoric towards Vladimir Putin?

:11:30.:11:33.

Yes, firstly some comments that riled people here in Ukraine

:11:34.:11:37.

when Donald Trump in an interview on a US network said that

:11:38.:11:41.

from the people he had spoken to, most people he thought in Crimea

:11:42.:11:45.

were happy that Russia had annexed the peninsula and also,

:11:46.:11:48.

as you say, he said on many occasions that

:11:49.:11:50.

President Putin is someone he could do business with.

:11:51.:11:53.

On the other hand, his campaign manager until today,

:11:54.:11:57.

Paul Manafort, was a man who came here to Ukraine for nigh on a decade

:11:58.:12:00.

doing political consultancy work and PR work for the former

:12:01.:12:03.

president, Viktor Yanukovich, the man, of course, who fled this

:12:04.:12:07.

country in 2014 after turning his back on the association agreement

:12:08.:12:11.

with the European Union in favour of a deal with Russia.

:12:12.:12:15.

And then he was, of course, forced from power.

:12:16.:12:17.

On the one hand you could say that Paul Manafort was doing political

:12:18.:12:21.

consultancy work for a foreign government and he

:12:22.:12:22.

On the other hand you could say he was working for a regime

:12:23.:12:33.

and a leader that was corrupt to the core and he helped keep

:12:34.:12:36.

And joining us now from New York is Jason Meister, a Trump supporter

:12:37.:12:41.

To lose one campaign chief might be considered misfortune, to lose two

:12:42.:12:52.

of them is beginning to look like crass incompetence. How can he run

:12:53.:12:58.

our country? That is a good media spin but that is not what is really

:12:59.:13:03.

happening, we have come of the best week so far since the Cleveland

:13:04.:13:08.

Convention, our opinion poll numbers are narrowing and that is of the

:13:09.:13:12.

back of registered voters as opposed to likely voters and what the media

:13:13.:13:18.

has missed in this election is the enthusiasm behind Trump supporters

:13:19.:13:22.

and voters, the turnout has been historic, the only candidate in

:13:23.:13:26.

history that has as many votes in the primary... I want to be clear

:13:27.:13:35.

that I have not missed anything, you had a 2% lead for Clinton in the LA

:13:36.:13:43.

Times, another had 5%, YouGov has 6%, NBC has 9%, I am possibly

:13:44.:13:48.

missing something. He get rid of Manafort because things are going so

:13:49.:13:52.

well? Things are going well. He got rid of the campaign chief because

:13:53.:13:57.

things are going well? Things are going well and at certain times

:13:58.:14:00.

during the campaign it calls for certain skills and Bannon is an

:14:01.:14:07.

incredible guy for the home stretch and what everyone is missing is what

:14:08.:14:12.

the American people are faced with. This campaign is not about what

:14:13.:14:18.

someone says in the rally, this is about the issues facing America. The

:14:19.:14:23.

economy, national security, and immigration. These are the three

:14:24.:14:27.

issues that voters will be voting on when it comes to election day. And

:14:28.:14:31.

what is Hillary Clinton? The poster child of what is wrong with

:14:32.:14:36.

Washington, DC. And this election is about the outsider. This is about

:14:37.:14:43.

Donald Trump's campaign and I am sorry to Labour this, can you

:14:44.:14:46.

explain by you get rid of the campaign chief when things are

:14:47.:14:50.

going, under your analysis, which is perhaps a little bit subjective,

:14:51.:14:54.

going so well? Any other example where you would get rid of the man

:14:55.:14:57.

in charge when things go brilliantly? Like I said, during the

:14:58.:15:03.

campaign certain skills have an impact on the campaign, I think the

:15:04.:15:06.

home stretch, we have the right people in place and Donald Trump, he

:15:07.:15:14.

has stayed on message. He is talking about the economy and national

:15:15.:15:18.

security. And we're going to start to see, and what you start to see is

:15:19.:15:25.

what is Hillary Clinton? They are... There is criminal tools to this.

:15:26.:15:32.

Bribery. What is Bannon has to do before Mr Trump gets rid of him? How

:15:33.:15:39.

good do you have to be? I think if we stay on message and we let, we

:15:40.:15:45.

peel the onion on the corruption and criminality and the pay for play,

:15:46.:15:50.

Americans do not want corruption in Washington and we're going to have

:15:51.:15:53.

to get rid of that and change it and that is what Trump represents. OK.

:15:54.:15:59.

Some of the other elements of Mr Trump is my campaign have attracted

:16:00.:16:05.

attention and I would like your personal reaction. I think you have

:16:06.:16:09.

a daughter, when she's old enough to have a job, if she is sexually

:16:10.:16:12.

harassed, would you be comfortable with the advice that she should find

:16:13.:16:17.

another job? That is what Mr Trump suggest. I think you need to look at

:16:18.:16:28.

the economy. We want to look at statements he is making in the

:16:29.:16:31.

campaign and what you think about them. How do you feel about his

:16:32.:16:36.

suggestion that victims of sexual harassment should just find new

:16:37.:16:39.

jobs? That is not what this election is about. It is about the issues,

:16:40.:16:44.

and we need to stay focused on the issues and stay on message. And the

:16:45.:16:49.

message tonight is, things are going so well, we've sacked our campaign

:16:50.:16:56.

chief. Thank you very much indeed for your time.

:16:57.:16:58.

For almost three years, South Sudan, the world's youngest country,

:16:59.:17:01.

has been involved in a bloody and complex multi ethnic civil war

:17:02.:17:04.

between rival factions loyal to President Salva Kiir,

:17:05.:17:07.

from the Dinka ethnic group, and Riek Machar, who is ethnic Nuer.

:17:08.:17:13.

Right now, a tentative ceasefire is in place but in June fighting

:17:14.:17:19.

On July 11th, the compound at Hotel Terrain, which housed teams

:17:20.:17:27.

of international staff from a several organisations -

:17:28.:17:29.

many who were aid workers - was overrun by South Sudanese troops

:17:30.:17:35.

fresh from winning a battle with opposition forces.

:17:36.:17:38.

Their rampage saw one Nuer journalist murdered,

:17:39.:17:40.

women raped and gang raped, dozens of staff assaulted

:17:41.:17:42.

A United Nations base was just up the road,

:17:43.:17:49.

less than a mile away, and the UN is now being

:17:50.:17:52.

accused of not responding properly to the attack.

:17:53.:17:56.

This is the story of that day, told to Newsnight by five

:17:57.:17:59.

of the people who were there - two Americans, a Philippine aid

:18:00.:18:03.

worker called Gian Libot, and two other Westerners.

:18:04.:18:06.

To protect their identities, we have asked actors

:18:07.:18:09.

I must warn you this film contains deeply distressing

:18:10.:18:13.

Monday morning was stressful but it wasn't out of the ordinary anymore.

:18:14.:18:26.

So we were actually feeling pretty good until someone said there had

:18:27.:18:29.

I don't remember who, but they said that the soldiers had

:18:30.:18:34.

breached the front gate and coming into the compound.

:18:35.:18:43.

So I sent my first message to the UN to say that our gate had been

:18:44.:18:47.

breached and that was one of many messages that I sent

:18:48.:18:49.

We heard people breaking into the compound.

:18:50.:18:57.

They were shooting and stealing things.

:18:58.:19:03.

About an hour later they figured out where we were and they methodically

:19:04.:19:06.

So I was hiding underneath the bed at the first sign of

:19:07.:19:13.

And the first thing they did was shout.

:19:14.:19:18.

"Where is the money, where is the laptop,

:19:19.:19:20.

They kept asking people, what is your nationality,

:19:21.:19:24.

John was one of our local colleagues and he sought refuge with us

:19:25.:19:38.

because he thought he would be safer with his international colleagues.

:19:39.:19:42.

When the soldiers first entered the building they saw John run

:19:43.:19:45.

from one of the apartment rooms and they grabbed him.

:19:46.:19:49.

They threw him to the ground and they started beating

:19:50.:19:52.

And while this was happening a few of the soldiers came

:19:53.:19:56.

One of the distinct words that came out was a word, "Nuer",

:19:57.:20:06.

and this sort of acted like a trigger for the soldier

:20:07.:20:08.

Two shots were fired and he immediately

:20:09.:20:11.

It was clear the situation had really escalated.

:20:12.:20:16.

Successive waves of soldiers came into the room and they separated

:20:17.:20:19.

I was trapped in a room and repeatedly raped.

:20:20.:20:29.

Sometimes by one person, sometimes with many people in the room.

:20:30.:20:32.

Until I was taken out of that room and I was put in another room and it

:20:33.:20:37.

I went to hide inside the bathroom with another 11 people.

:20:38.:20:44.

Everyone was trying to write messages on Facebook,

:20:45.:20:48.

One of the soldiers looked me right in the eye.

:20:49.:20:57.

And he started aggressively patting me down.

:20:58.:21:09.

He put a gun to my head and he said, "if you don't have sex with me then

:21:10.:21:17.

every soldier in the room will have sex with you and then

:21:18.:21:25.

So he made it very clear that there really wasn't another option.

:21:26.:21:29.

And he was telling me to "open your legs, open your legs".

:21:30.:21:32.

So then he pulled my pants off completely and took

:21:33.:21:39.

Some of the soldiers were aggressive and they kept shouting

:21:40.:21:59.

And they tried to get the others involved,

:22:00.:22:06.

Some of the soldiers wanted to sit down and make small talk,

:22:07.:22:13.

like we were on on some sort of date.

:22:14.:22:15.

One of them, it wasn't one of the ones who raped me,

:22:16.:22:21.

And I said, your soldiers raped me and I'm upset

:22:22.:22:32.

Because this is the work of God and not the work of man.

:22:33.:22:46.

It was about 7pm, 7.30pm later that day and we were extracted

:22:47.:22:58.

We actually got taken to the National Security building

:22:59.:23:07.

and there were again many men in uniforms standing around.

:23:08.:23:14.

They were all pretending they didn't know what had happened to us.

:23:15.:23:18.

And at that point, one of my colleagues was saying,

:23:19.:23:30.

I don't think you understand what we have just been through.

:23:31.:23:37.

And this man said, I'm sorry for the inconvenience

:23:38.:23:49.

I went out and tried to see if there was anybody,

:23:50.:24:06.

These soldiers saw me and ordered me to go to this apartment.

:24:07.:24:14.

And with his gun he touched me everywhere.

:24:15.:24:18.

He ordered me to take my pants off and I saw my friend being raped.

:24:19.:24:32.

And he ordered me to go there and I had to wait

:24:33.:24:37.

Then they went away and there was this long and terrible

:24:38.:24:48.

Generally, the compound has security lighting.

:24:49.:25:03.

And it was actually just pitch black.

:25:04.:25:11.

There was rubble everywhere because they had upended everything

:25:12.:25:13.

I kept creeping out of my hiding place every so often to listen

:25:14.:25:22.

I wanted to get out of there and find a time when I could run

:25:23.:25:28.

We could see John's body was still on the ground.

:25:29.:25:31.

And we covered it with a sheet out of respect.

:25:32.:25:36.

The first moment that I understood that morning has arrived,

:25:37.:25:41.

Once I heard the birds I said to my friend,

:25:42.:25:48.

the birds are singing, morning has arrived.

:25:49.:25:52.

We survive, we were whisked out of the country and given

:25:53.:26:05.

We are taken back to our homes that are in relatively stable parts

:26:06.:26:12.

of the world and we are looked after.

:26:13.:26:14.

It's a horrific experience and a traumatic thing

:26:15.:26:16.

For the women of South Sudan, that experience of rape in a much

:26:17.:26:27.

more violent way and much more often than we ever would, but they didn't

:26:28.:26:30.

Actors there, reading the real testimony of

:26:31.:26:36.

The UN has been criticised for not acting quickly enough

:26:37.:26:41.

to come to the aid of those in the Hotel Terrain,

:26:42.:26:45.

and today we asked to speak to someone from the organisation,

:26:46.:26:49.

This week, a statement from the UN Secretary General's office said that

:26:50.:26:53.

"due to the gravity of these incidents" Ban Ki Moon has decided

:26:54.:26:56.

to "launch an independent special investigation to determine

:26:57.:26:59.

the circumstances surrounding these incidents and to evaluate

:27:00.:27:01.

Well, tonight Newsnight bids a warm farewell to the Rio Olympics,

:27:02.:27:15.

but we couldn't leave without a final word

:27:16.:27:17.

from our Olympics correspondent Stephen Smith.

:27:18.:27:21.

In tonight's Throne of Games season finale, he is joined

:27:22.:27:25.

by the original Man Behaving Badly, Neil Morrissey, now an in-demand

:27:26.:27:28.

We drop out on the last lap as Fiona Bruce goes

:27:29.:27:43.

I've got a couple of confessions to make to the viewers who have

:27:44.:27:55.

First of all, I never was in the British Olympics Deck

:27:56.:28:01.

Quoits team, as I wrote in the book that accompanies this series.

:28:02.:28:05.

Secondly, it's not my flat but it belongs to a familiar face.

:28:06.:28:08.

I don't think I've ever seen it look so tidy!

:28:09.:28:19.

I saw this lovely layout in Exchange and Mart.

:28:20.:28:21.

Kirsty, you can't possibly live here.

:28:22.:28:27.

I can see where you are getting your ideas from but I made Men

:28:28.:28:46.

Behaving Badly for nearly 20 years and in real life we actually

:28:47.:28:49.

We have turned into Olympoholics in our house.

:28:50.:28:53.

It has been complete Olympomania.

:28:54.:28:56.

Do I look like I've got a bit of red eye?

:28:57.:28:58.

We have been sitting up to like four o'clock in the morning every day.

:28:59.:29:04.

You have hit out this week at the perhaps

:29:05.:29:14.

unrecognised horror of exploding laundry.

:29:15.:29:19.

Tea towels, if they're not washed correctly, with all the grease

:29:20.:29:26.

removed from them, when they go into the tumble dryer,

:29:27.:29:28.

which is on quite a high heat as well, they can ignite.

:29:29.:29:31.

I never thought we would hear that from Neil Morrissey.

:29:32.:29:41.

Very, very precise, those pattern changes.

:29:42.:29:47.

Wouldn't it be great to have a synchronised swimmer

:29:48.:29:49.

He'll drag you underwater and do all kinds of things to you!

:29:50.:30:01.

Apparently, being an Olympian smarts a little bit but it is nothing

:30:02.:30:06.

like the day-to-day grind of an acting schedule.

:30:07.:30:08.

I've got empathy with them, of course.

:30:09.:30:12.

They think they work hard, but come on!

:30:13.:30:14.

Now, did you offer them the cane work?

:30:15.:30:23.

Did you say, I can bring something extra,

:30:24.:30:28.

There's some decent points out of this discipline.

:30:29.:30:38.

All that practice and he went the wrong side.

:30:39.:30:46.

He knocked the bar off with his penis.

:30:47.:31:00.

Gravity has shifted the member into a position and it hasn't

:31:01.:31:03.

I'll leave it there, I think we've got the idea.

:31:04.:31:08.

Good evening. It while since we last had a weekend like this one, a very

:31:09.:31:36.

windy weekend and a very wet one. As well. On Saturday, we could see

:31:37.:31:40.

destructive winds, particularly across England and Wales. Coastal

:31:41.:31:46.

gusts of 50-60 mph. Big waves crashing onto shore, even inland,

:31:47.:31:48.

big

:31:49.:31:50.

How has Brazil managed the Olympics? Newsnight speaks to former Brazilian president Lula. Plus atrocities in South Sudan, a Trump campaign shake-up and Steve Smith's Olympic round-up.


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