22/08/2016 Newsnight


22/08/2016

Is the media biased against Jeremy Corbyn? Will trainee teachers no longer need a degree? Lessons from Rio 2016. Quincy Jones is interviewed. Eska sings.


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Transcript


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The voting has begun in the Labour leadership election.

:00:00.:00:13.

So how does the mainstream media deal with Jeremy Corbyn?

:00:14.:00:20.

That's not about the mainstream media taking against Corbyn

:00:21.:00:23.

as the Momentumistas would have you think.

:00:24.:00:24.

That's about Jeremy Corbyn not being up to the job.

:00:25.:00:29.

Does he get a fair crack of the whip or a bit of a whipping?

:00:30.:00:33.

Britain is on a sporting high after Rio but are some of the claims

:00:34.:00:36.

about the transformative power of our medals haul just fanciful?

:00:37.:00:43.

The man who produced this, Quincy Jones, speaks to us

:00:44.:00:47.

before his Proms performance, about, amongst other things,

:00:48.:00:49.

Yeah, back then, but he wasn't like that, man, at all.

:00:50.:00:55.

He used to fly with his helicopter with his name on the bottom of it.

:00:56.:01:10.

And that's not the only musical delight.

:01:11.:01:12.

We have our own live performance from Zimbabwean jazz singer Eska

:01:13.:01:15.

The ballot papers have been sent out to Labour members and supporters

:01:16.:01:37.

all 640,000 or so of them, who have until September 21st

:01:38.:01:40.

to make up their minds who will be the next Labour leader.

:01:41.:01:42.

The bookies are backing Jeremy Corbyn.

:01:43.:01:44.

But over the weekend two big hitters, Labour's Scottish leader,

:01:45.:01:46.

Kezia Dugdale, and the London Mayor, Sadiq Khan, made it clear

:01:47.:01:50.

they are not on the basis that he wouldn't win over a majority

:01:51.:01:53.

What I have written, and just spoken is factually

:01:54.:01:58.

accurate, but Corbynites claim that the mainstream media's attitude

:01:59.:02:00.

The headlines haven't been kind to Jeremy Corbyn.

:02:01.:02:13.

From the moment he won Labour's leadership contest, some foresaw his

:02:14.:02:18.

destruction of the country, made highly-personal assaults

:02:19.:02:20.

on his character, and condemned him as a terrorist sympathiser.

:02:21.:02:25.

More recently, as that leadership is threatened, the papers have

:02:26.:02:27.

There is nothing new about attacks on politicians.

:02:28.:02:35.

Jeremy Corbyn's predecessor, Ed Miliband, was frequently

:02:36.:02:36.

in the firing line, as was Labour's candidate

:02:37.:02:38.

But fans of the Labour leader argue that their voices are being silenced

:02:39.:02:52.

and that the criticism their man faces is of an entirely different

:02:53.:02:55.

Doctor Justin Schlosberg, a Jeremy Corbyn supporter and member

:02:56.:03:00.

of the Momentum campaign group, has studied the media's

:03:01.:03:03.

The coverage of Jeremy Corbyn has been deeply unfair right back

:03:04.:03:10.

to when he was first elected, but particularly in the most recent

:03:11.:03:12.

And the problem, you know, is not just that the press has

:03:13.:03:18.

taken an editorial view, which you would expect them to do

:03:19.:03:24.

in cases like this, but that those narratives have really seeped

:03:25.:03:27.

into and disproportionately influenced the coverage

:03:28.:03:28.

And television and online are supposed to be

:03:29.:03:31.

the counterweights to the dominant voices of national newspapers.

:03:32.:03:37.

The Media Reform Coalition analysed 465 articles and 40 prime-time news

:03:38.:03:42.

bulletins on the BBC and ITV in a crucial ten-day period in June.

:03:43.:03:47.

The team found that twice as much time was given to Corbyn critics

:03:48.:03:50.

than supporters, journalists used pejorative language

:03:51.:03:54.

to describe the Labour leader, and that the alleged bias

:03:55.:03:56.

in the coverage was neither inevitable nor unavoidable.

:03:57.:04:01.

Jeremy Corbyn's team have purposefully chosen a different

:04:02.:04:04.

campaigning strategy, speaking to supporters

:04:05.:04:09.

through social media rather than the more-traditional

:04:10.:04:11.

That's not an excuse for an absence of supportive

:04:12.:04:15.

voices in mainstream media coverage, say some.

:04:16.:04:19.

The responsibility is on the media, the responsibility is

:04:20.:04:21.

on journalists, trained, professional journalists,

:04:22.:04:25.

to recognise what is going on here, to recognise the kind of agenda

:04:26.:04:30.

building that is going on behind the scenes,

:04:31.:04:35.

and to do their best to actually create a more balanced picture.

:04:36.:04:38.

But rather than rely on journalists, would a different approach

:04:39.:04:40.

towards the press be far more effective?

:04:41.:04:42.

They've gone after Jeremy Corbyn in a very, very negative

:04:43.:04:45.

That's what you expect from the press.

:04:46.:04:50.

You can't stick your fingers in your ears, you've got to,

:04:51.:04:53.

as best you can, engage with the press, because people,

:04:54.:04:58.

they don't talk about politics on social media, they watch a bit

:04:59.:05:02.

of TV, listen to Radio 2, if you're not there and you've just

:05:03.:05:05.

retreated to a social-media bubble, which very few people use,

:05:06.:05:08.

then your message won't get across and you'll be defined

:05:09.:05:10.

Privately, many in the mainstream media completely reject the idea

:05:11.:05:13.

that there is some kind of co-ordinated attack

:05:14.:05:15.

against Jeremy Corbyn and his supporters, like those

:05:16.:05:19.

Some journalists point out that, whichever way you try to spin it,

:05:20.:05:26.

the bulk of your front bench resigning and the vast majority

:05:27.:05:29.

of MPs saying they've got no faith in your leadership,

:05:30.:05:32.

well, that's just a bad-news day in anyone's book.

:05:33.:05:35.

Others say there is a simpler explanation for some of the bad

:05:36.:05:40.

It really tells you something, doesn't it, when the Guardian

:05:41.:05:46.

and the Mirror and Channel 4, who you would have thought would be

:05:47.:05:49.

totally on that kind of left-wing agenda,

:05:50.:05:50.

also think that he has been a really, really terrible leader

:05:51.:05:53.

That's not about the mainstream media taking against Jeremy Corbyn,

:05:54.:05:58.

as the Momentumistas would have you think,

:05:59.:06:00.

that's about Jeremy Corbyn not being up to the job.

:06:01.:06:04.

The fact that Sadiq Khan and those kind of people are now coming out

:06:05.:06:07.

against him and saying they want a different leader is also part

:06:08.:06:10.

Jeremy Corbyn is not up to it, therefore he gets bad press.

:06:11.:06:14.

Jeremy Corbyn's backers can take heart from one thing.

:06:15.:06:22.

Despite nearly a year of media criticism, there appears to be

:06:23.:06:25.

little if any dent to his popularity among Labour supporters,

:06:26.:06:29.

and, as the party's members cast their ballots over the coming

:06:30.:06:32.

weeks, his team will hope that trend continues.

:06:33.:06:39.

Joining me now, Stephen Bush, special correspondent

:06:40.:06:41.

Editor of the left-wing news website, The Canary,

:06:42.:06:45.

Strategic advisor to the Jeremy for Labour campaign Jeremy Gilbert.

:06:46.:06:48.

And former editor of The Sun David Yelland.

:06:49.:06:54.

Good evening to all of you. What is Jeremy Corbyn's strategy with the

:06:55.:07:04.

media? His strategy is partly what you would expect any politician's

:07:05.:07:10.

strategy to be, to engage with it productively but he also has a

:07:11.:07:13.

different and new agenda which is to reach out directly as far as

:07:14.:07:17.

possible to the border constituency across the country come to

:07:18.:07:21.

supporters through social media and independent media and I think this

:07:22.:07:25.

is quite challenging to established mainstream media, they find it

:07:26.:07:27.

difficult to understand and quite frightening. But I think it is a

:07:28.:07:34.

strategy appropriate to the 21st-century. So how does the engage

:07:35.:07:39.

with mainstream media? In the same way anybody does, when he gets the

:07:40.:07:45.

chance to do so. He does interviews, issued statements, answers

:07:46.:07:51.

questions, campaigns. Does he need the mainstream media? We all need it

:07:52.:07:58.

to some extent, it is willing to do its job. We all needed to the extent

:07:59.:08:04.

that they are willing to represent a broad swathe of opinion across the

:08:05.:08:08.

country and population. Is the mainstream media doing its job is

:08:09.:08:12.

far Jeremy is concerned? I think it is. The first thing to say is that

:08:13.:08:19.

no Labour leader post war has had the support of more than 20, 20 5%

:08:20.:08:24.

of the press apart from perhaps Tony Blair. Any Labour leader starts off

:08:25.:08:33.

on a very sticky wicket. But Jeremy Corbyn is on an even stickier wicket

:08:34.:08:38.

because of the news, because a good chunk of the Shadow Cabinet don't

:08:39.:08:44.

support him. Sadiq Khan does not support him, the leader in Scotland

:08:45.:08:49.

does not support him. The media is reporting the news and the biggest

:08:50.:08:52.

risk for Jeremy Corbyn is that he disappears from the news agenda

:08:53.:08:55.

which is what had begun tapping until today when the voting has

:08:56.:09:02.

started. -- begun to happen. Not just Tory press but he been nowhere

:09:03.:09:07.

near the front page for a long time. I had basically written him off.

:09:08.:09:13.

Therefore what do you think the Canary does as an online forum and

:09:14.:09:18.

paper that mainstream media does not? What we're trying to do and

:09:19.:09:23.

becoming increasingly successful in doing is challenging some of the

:09:24.:09:26.

dominant narratives. We have a situation here where 81% of the

:09:27.:09:30.

mainstream media is owned by six corporations and most of the

:09:31.:09:34.

journalists went to a handful of universities and graduated about

:09:35.:09:37.

Digg images to the left or right to veto the politically so that if

:09:38.:09:41.

little gap between them and it becomes a minuscule arena for

:09:42.:09:45.

political debate -- about six inches to the left or right. People outside

:09:46.:09:51.

of that are mocked or ridiculed or derided as mad and dangerous. And

:09:52.:09:57.

that is a crisis. And you are backing Jeremy Corbyn to the hilt?

:09:58.:09:59.

We are doing something slightly different, ourselves, incredible

:10:00.:10:11.

blogs, we are saying, hang on, there is a vast spectrum of ideas, of

:10:12.:10:19.

great ideas outside that arena. There is a vast spectrum, and would

:10:20.:10:26.

you be as happy to report on that vast spectrum, right-wing ideas as

:10:27.:10:29.

well as left wing? I think there is more than enough space occupied

:10:30.:10:38.

currently reporting white ring ideas. So you are cheerleaders for

:10:39.:10:43.

Jeremy Corbyn? Absolutely not, and saying there is a vast spectrum of

:10:44.:10:48.

ideas and they are sadly underrepresented in the mainstream

:10:49.:10:51.

media. What you have it essential parallel revolution is happening in

:10:52.:10:55.

politics and in the media. In politics you have the courageous and

:10:56.:10:59.

capable politicians of the SNP in Scotland, Plaid Cymru in Wales,

:11:00.:11:03.

Corbyn's labour and in the media you have the likes of the canary which

:11:04.:11:07.

did not exist a year ago, and in July with the top read new site in

:11:08.:11:13.

the UK, taking over the New Statesman and the Economist and the

:11:14.:11:19.

Spectator. So you feel under threat from them? I would not say it is a

:11:20.:11:27.

website I worry about, they are doing something very different to

:11:28.:11:31.

what we're doing. I don't want to litigate other people... But I kind

:11:32.:11:38.

of take the view that in some ways, the mainstream media, if it fails to

:11:39.:11:42.

represent enough people, it dies. Ultimately your readership is the

:11:43.:11:52.

only currency that matters. When you are reporting on Jeremy Corbyn, do

:11:53.:11:58.

you think the new statement is biased against him? No, I think we

:11:59.:12:05.

contain, our aim is to contain the whole of the left so we have

:12:06.:12:09.

everything from James Schneider, Michael Jefferys, who is only the

:12:10.:12:14.

most engaging writer come all the way to people like John McDermott

:12:15.:12:19.

who would quite like to take an ice pick to Jeremy Corbyn! We try to see

:12:20.:12:25.

ourselves as the honest broker. And you would see the new statement at

:12:26.:12:29.

the honest broker? I wouldn't go that far. I respect the fact they

:12:30.:12:36.

make the effort to do what Stephen has said -- the New Statesman. I

:12:37.:12:44.

think the range of voices is skewed, not towards the far end but to the

:12:45.:12:50.

soft left from our point of convergence between the soft left

:12:51.:12:53.

and the old Labour right which is essentially committed to the idea

:12:54.:12:56.

that there is one way to do politics. That is by having a nice,

:12:57.:13:03.

popular, marketable leader who is a big social democratic, a bit

:13:04.:13:08.

respectable... And a bit popular in the country? I dearly but

:13:09.:13:10.

historically it is a model of politics that has failed multiple

:13:11.:13:14.

times. It failed for new clinic twice, for Ed Miliband and for

:13:15.:13:19.

Gordon Brown. The question we have to ask is white so many people in

:13:20.:13:24.

the Parliamentary Labour Party and indeed in the left liberal press

:13:25.:13:27.

like the guardsmen -- Guardian and the new statement are so committed

:13:28.:13:30.

to a strategy that has failed so many times. The success rate for

:13:31.:13:37.

Corbyn isn't so far is 1983 which did not go that well, when the 16th

:13:38.:13:42.

same trajectory, not better or worse than Ed Miliband and we know what

:13:43.:13:46.

happened at the end of that story -- 2016, the same trajectory. The idea

:13:47.:13:56.

that you can talk about 1983 at Corbynista is ridiculous, this is 35

:13:57.:14:04.

years later. He got into politics as Tony Benn's closes... They leader

:14:05.:14:09.

from that group... What bit about is quite different. Staked a particular

:14:10.:14:19.

issue. This is almost like viewers and listeners start here. What is

:14:20.:14:24.

the position over Trident? The Labour Party's position is one

:14:25.:14:29.

thing, it is multilateralism, Jeremy Corbyn's is quite different.

:14:30.:14:33.

Presumably you would say that the media should report on both

:14:34.:14:36.

positions and have critical analysis between the two.

:14:37.:14:40.

That is one of the issues where there has not been balance. Voices

:14:41.:14:47.

who are critical of and hostile to Jeremy's decision have appeared

:14:48.:14:53.

multiple times with no... Let's take that issue. The Labour Party if the

:14:54.:15:00.

party of opposition, it has a position, Jeremy Corbyn is a

:15:01.:15:05.

different position. We have gone through the referendum, the country

:15:06.:15:11.

out there is a very different place from the discussion happening here,

:15:12.:15:17.

radically different. It is not looking at the detail, and

:15:18.:15:25.

shouldn't. People have lives. The reality is, the reason that the

:15:26.:15:31.

Prescott aggressive with Neil Kinnock when he nearly was elected

:15:32.:15:42.

was on his defence policy. There were people... Quite right as well,

:15:43.:15:47.

I don't think he should have been elected, he would have been

:15:48.:15:50.

dangerous for the West and Britain. A lot of serious people in the

:15:51.:15:58.

country, not some sort of Rupert or anybody like that, but voters, said,

:15:59.:16:03.

we cannot let this man, and it is the same with Jeremy Corbyn,

:16:04.:16:07.

although there are other issues. The reason that the press have started

:16:08.:16:14.

to ignore him, he is never going to be elected. That is interesting.

:16:15.:16:22.

There is not a chance. Should the press make that decision? No, but

:16:23.:16:27.

they do, they have for several elections. This is the problem with

:16:28.:16:33.

the mentality of the coup. They are trying to fight the 2005 election

:16:34.:16:38.

again, and the elections of the past decade or so, where you have

:16:39.:16:43.

middling Glen deciding, because you have 40% of people who are not

:16:44.:16:49.

bothering to vote. The last election, 76% of people did not vote

:16:50.:16:52.

Labour, and what Jeremy Corbyn and the Green Party and the SNP are

:16:53.:16:58.

doing is, can we please stop fighting over this 24% and go for

:16:59.:17:05.

the 76% over Fiona? They are craving a new kind of politics. We are

:17:06.:17:13.

facing multiple crises on multiple fronts in foreign policy, the NHS.

:17:14.:17:19.

Opinion polls suggest that Jeremy Corbyn has a big following amongst

:17:20.:17:27.

the people he has energised, but in terms of opinion polls, he would not

:17:28.:17:33.

win the country. These are the same opinion polls which have been

:17:34.:17:40.

incorrect. The opinion polls over the last five electoral cycles, the

:17:41.:17:45.

online polls got the referendum right, all of the polls got the SNP

:17:46.:17:53.

surge and the referendum right. If you are looking for positive things

:17:54.:17:57.

to say about Jeremy Corbyn, that is the worst thing to say, because if

:17:58.:18:01.

there is an error there, all of the trends would suggest it would be

:18:02.:18:08.

underestimating... I think the excitement of the new politics is

:18:09.:18:14.

coming from that working-class community who has tuned out of

:18:15.:18:18.

politics for quite some time, and you have the seeds of Labour

:18:19.:18:21.

movement happening in this country again, the likes of which we have

:18:22.:18:26.

seen for some time. If Owen Smith was going out and having thousands

:18:27.:18:29.

of people turning up to rallies and the Labour Party members were

:18:30.:18:36.

surging over him, these people would say, these are some great signs of

:18:37.:18:42.

engagement. Will we see Jeremy Ben and Owen Smith on the front pages

:18:43.:18:46.

between now and September the 21st? A bit, but not that much.

:18:47.:18:48.

Billions of people around the world watched one after another

:18:49.:18:51.

after another electrifying performance by British

:18:52.:18:52.

"A sporting superpower" - that's how the chief executive of UK

:18:53.:18:57.

Sport describes the UK after the massive medal haul

:18:58.:19:00.

which puts the UK second only to the US.

:19:01.:19:02.

So how did Team GB do it and have these hard-won victories wider

:19:03.:19:07.

Has this achievement the power to perform miracles in other

:19:08.:19:12.

We asked Matthew Syed, a former Commonwealth

:19:13.:19:19.

table-tennis champion, and now a leader in the science

:19:20.:19:21.

of high performance, to make a film for us.

:19:22.:19:25.

A gold and silver. Rio 2016 has been a triumph for Team GB. These

:19:26.:19:35.

excesses have captivated the nation, and have been pretty broad. The 67

:19:36.:19:40.

medals have encompassed familiar sports would also diving, tae kwon

:19:41.:19:45.

do and hockey. Something else has happened as well. People have

:19:46.:19:52.

extrapolated from Team GB's success, funded by ?300 million of public

:19:53.:19:56.

money, to make broader claims about the economy, written's place in the

:19:57.:20:01.

world, even the merits of central planning. Here are five big claims

:20:02.:20:06.

about our sporting triumph and whether they add up. Central

:20:07.:20:15.

planning can fix the economy. UK Sport has picked winners. Targeting

:20:16.:20:20.

sports which promised success and cutting back on those that

:20:21.:20:24.

historically have not made the grade. And can the idea of picking

:20:25.:20:30.

winners be used in industrial planning as well? It is easy to lose

:20:31.:20:37.

sight of just how complicated a modern economy is. It is ?1.6

:20:38.:20:44.

trillion in the UK economy, 10 billion distinct products and

:20:45.:20:49.

services. To look at an achievement like funding UK LE sport and to say

:20:50.:20:54.

therefore we can do the same thing with the economy, it does not carry

:20:55.:21:00.

over. It is on a different scale. The budget of UK Sport in the last

:21:01.:21:04.

four years would not fund the National health service for one day.

:21:05.:21:08.

British Olympians are disproportionately middle-class. In

:21:09.:21:15.

Beijing 20's 2008, half of the gold medallist from Team GB were

:21:16.:21:18.

privately educated. The trajectory is downwards. This year's team is

:21:19.:21:25.

made up of 542 athletes, it is estimated that 20% went to private

:21:26.:21:30.

school, compared with 7% of the general population. Compared with

:21:31.:21:37.

other sectors, the gap is not as stock. 32% of MPs went to private

:21:38.:21:42.

school, 71% of top military officers, 74% of the top judges. The

:21:43.:21:49.

Olympics is more representative in terms of social class than other

:21:50.:21:57.

elite professions. Lots of the professions now are much more

:21:58.:22:03.

meritocratic, but not completely. Whereas you might not get your

:22:04.:22:13.

training place in a law firm, your parents can go on all day like to UK

:22:14.:22:19.

Sport and the performance director but it won't wash, because the only

:22:20.:22:22.

thing that will get those young people into Team GB is that they are

:22:23.:22:29.

good enough. Marginal gains can transform our public institutions.

:22:30.:22:34.

Marginal gains has become a Team GB motto. It is all about breaking the

:22:35.:22:41.

problem of winning, for example, a bike race into its component parts,

:22:42.:22:45.

improving every single one, even if it is by 1%, the overall effect can

:22:46.:22:53.

be huge. Altering the bike designed to improve aerodynamic efficiency,

:22:54.:22:58.

optimising the skin suits, the shoes, altering the diet. Finding

:22:59.:23:03.

the tiny witnesses in one's assumptions and turning them into

:23:04.:23:07.

strengths. Olympians show that hard work is AK Party of success. Reality

:23:08.:23:14.

TV is about immediate success, instant gratification, a lot of the

:23:15.:23:19.

stars have done little more to achieve their fame than fallout of a

:23:20.:23:25.

night up. Olympians offer a different perspective, they took

:23:26.:23:27.

about dedication, sacrifice and a journey of real achievement. Does

:23:28.:23:33.

this matter? Absolutely. Research has shown if children by the line

:23:34.:23:39.

that success is instant, effortless and capricious, they lose motivation

:23:40.:23:42.

on everything from schoolwork to sport. Why bother to persevere if

:23:43.:23:47.

you have not made it to the top in a flash? In one experiment, talking to

:23:48.:23:52.

children about the importance of effort and the relationship between

:23:53.:23:56.

what you put in and what you get out used in performance on a test by

:23:57.:24:01.

20%. This growth mindset message is important. Britain can stand on its

:24:02.:24:07.

own two feet in the world and win. If Team GB's success proves

:24:08.:24:14.

anything, it is that the old trope of a fading colonial power

:24:15.:24:18.

outflanked by younger, fresher nations like Australia and the USA

:24:19.:24:24.

is complete Tosh. The UK is not a nation of sporting losers. There has

:24:25.:24:29.

always been immense talent, and when that is fused with an enlightened

:24:30.:24:35.

system and an outward looking mindset, we can beat the world. Post

:24:36.:24:41.

Brexit, this should offer at least some cause for optimism. There is no

:24:42.:24:49.

inherent reason why Britain cannot compete and trade in science and

:24:50.:24:52.

technology as well. Who needs a degree to

:24:53.:24:54.

teach in the classroom? Indeed, a radical new proposal

:24:55.:24:56.

by the Teaching Schools Council suggests that teachers can

:24:57.:25:00.

learn their subject while teaching it to others -

:25:01.:25:02.

everything from English to maths. All part of the Government's big

:25:03.:25:05.

drive for more apprentices. VOICE-OVER: In the commerce class,

:25:06.:25:15.

for example, there is no frantic squabbling over one

:25:16.:25:18.

battered old typewriter. They've got a battery

:25:19.:25:21.

of 36 new machines. Could you soon start training

:25:22.:25:24.

as a teacher without a degree? That's a new proposal that

:25:25.:25:28.

has recently emerged, one that would mark a change

:25:29.:25:30.

in a decades-long push to get teachers to have ever higher

:25:31.:25:33.

qualifications and it's the highest profile idea to come

:25:34.:25:37.

from a far-reaching reform to how The big idea here is that

:25:38.:25:40.

an apprentice teacher could start work in a school

:25:41.:25:45.

without any postsecondary Rather than going to a university

:25:46.:25:48.

for a few years to learn subject knowledge and then starting

:25:49.:25:56.

to train, they would instead go straight into the classroom

:25:57.:25:58.

and learn their subject These plans are still at a very

:25:59.:26:00.

early stage but it's quite likely universities will stay

:26:01.:26:05.

involved in some capacity. We are at the stage now

:26:06.:26:07.

where we have engaged with schools, we are going to look

:26:08.:26:10.

at what is the finished article, ie a qualified teacher,

:26:11.:26:14.

and then work backwards. If the schools that have engaged

:26:15.:26:15.

with this call to arms say that they want it

:26:16.:26:18.

to be degree bearing, then the next stage is to put

:26:19.:26:20.

the standards together and the end point assessment to submit

:26:21.:26:24.

that to government. The Department for Education tonight

:26:25.:26:26.

has stated this apprenticeship will need to include a degree

:26:27.:26:29.

so apprentices will have to fit courses backed by a university

:26:30.:26:32.

around their work as a teacher. In my experience, the immediacy

:26:33.:26:37.

of being in a classroom with 30 learners is going to take priority

:26:38.:26:42.

over learning about your subject. And indeed, having a good subject

:26:43.:26:51.

knowledge is essential So I think that would take second

:26:52.:26:54.

place, even in a situation where the headteacher had

:26:55.:27:02.

implemented the programme well. These reforms are in part down

:27:03.:27:04.

to a major change to the way From next year, all employers,

:27:05.:27:07.

including those in the public sector, with a pay bill of more

:27:08.:27:10.

than ?3 million will be forced They can get that levy back

:27:11.:27:13.

but only if they use it to pay for apprenticeships, so there's

:27:14.:27:19.

a strong incentive for employers to try to fit existing training

:27:20.:27:21.

into the apprenticeship system. The funding mechanism is different

:27:22.:27:25.

because it will be funded through the ?80 million a year that

:27:26.:27:28.

schools will pay through the apprenticeship levy and then

:27:29.:27:30.

the delivery model will be slightly different so it won't be

:27:31.:27:33.

traditional four walls That's why really it plays

:27:34.:27:35.

into the hands of the 220,000 plus teaching assistants

:27:36.:27:40.

across the country because due to the demographics they can't

:27:41.:27:44.

necessarily go to university, There is scepticism, however,

:27:45.:27:46.

that teacher apprentices It's fair to say that the situation

:27:47.:27:52.

in schools is pretty desperate financially at the moment

:27:53.:27:57.

and teachers are very, And my worry is that this

:27:58.:28:00.

is going to be done on the cheap and that young people

:28:01.:28:07.

are going to be left to work in classrooms and have

:28:08.:28:11.

very little mentoring. And my experience has shown that

:28:12.:28:14.

mentoring is the most important relationship in schools

:28:15.:28:16.

during initial teacher education. The Government has a target

:28:17.:28:22.

of 3 million apprentices by 2020. If they are going to get anywhere

:28:23.:28:26.

near that, a lot of that will be rebadging of existing training

:28:27.:28:29.

but there are a lot of companies who hope to use apprenticeships

:28:30.:28:32.

as a means of tapping talent pools that the universities have not

:28:33.:28:35.

been able to attract. Many of the professions where people

:28:36.:28:39.

will have assumed they were recruiting at degree level are now

:28:40.:28:42.

considering recruiting at 18 and taking people through

:28:43.:28:46.

a higher apprenticeship For example, accountancy,

:28:47.:28:48.

management consultancy, nursing, these are areas

:28:49.:28:52.

where they are looking already at recruiting apprentices

:28:53.:28:56.

and many of the other professions are looking at how they might

:28:57.:28:59.

start bringing people VOICE-OVER: A school now

:29:00.:29:01.

of more orthodox kind, although there is not much orthodox

:29:02.:29:07.

about this place of learning. The apprenticeship levy may only be

:29:08.:29:10.

causing of a public argument within teaching but don't

:29:11.:29:13.

think its effects will be Quietly, across the country,

:29:14.:29:16.

employers are reshaping their training and recruitment

:29:17.:29:21.

plans so they can recoup Taking a bow at the Albert Hall

:29:22.:29:23.

in front of a rapturous Proms audience right about now

:29:24.:29:34.

is a musical legend who says he wanted to be a gangster

:29:35.:29:36.

until he was 11, and no, The Prom was a mash-up of the jazz,

:29:37.:29:39.

pop and cinematic work of Quincy Jones, who's probably best

:29:40.:29:44.

known as the producer of Now 83, he can still deliver

:29:45.:29:47.

a pugnacious opinion. Tonight Smith meets Jones

:29:48.:29:52.

as our culture man caught up with the composer at

:29:53.:30:03.

rehearsals for his Prom. The last night of the Proms. Or a

:30:04.:30:27.

Young Conservative's idea of New Year's Eve as one wag called it.

:30:28.:30:39.

But look what they are doing to the Proms, they are dropping a bomb on

:30:40.:30:53.

them! With the jazz song book of Mr Quincy Jones. Your sharp. I had to

:30:54.:31:05.

make an effort! You do that every day, man. You are still out dressing

:31:06.:31:12.

me. I got this in China, I had them made up, I like them. Every time I

:31:13.:31:21.

go I get 28 suits! Look out, they're behind us. That was such a good time

:31:22.:31:30.

in England in the 60s. My son was born here. We were filming The

:31:31.:31:42.

Italian Job. I know you are asked all the time about Michael Jackson.

:31:43.:31:47.

Do you think ultimately that is a tragic story? It is a tragic story

:31:48.:31:52.

and we used to talk about it all the time. That's what I said a lot of

:31:53.:32:00.

stupid things after he died. Anyway. You cannot make record like that

:32:01.:32:05.

without extreme love, trust and respect.

:32:06.:32:22.

There were stories of him bringing snakes and things... And

:32:23.:32:32.

chimpanzees! I didn't like that. The snake used to wrap around me, around

:32:33.:32:39.

my leg and I didn't like that at all. It would crawl across the

:32:40.:32:46.

console. I'm not into snakes! So who won? He kept them. One day we went

:32:47.:32:55.

out and I said, there is Muscles? We went downstairs and he was in the

:32:56.:33:02.

parrot cage right there and he and the parrot didn't like it ever and

:33:03.:33:06.

he had just eaten the parrot and his head got stuck in the cage!

:33:07.:33:20.

We have lost some great people this year. The last two years, George

:33:21.:33:27.

Martin, David Bowie, it doesn't stop. It is just frightening. All my

:33:28.:33:35.

friends, I lost a lot of friends this year. Did you know David Bowie?

:33:36.:33:41.

Can you tell us about your time with him? Every year we would rent his

:33:42.:33:48.

yacht, he lived in Switzerland. Was he as good as everybody says? He

:33:49.:33:54.

was, the music can never be any more or less than you are as a human

:33:55.:33:57.

being and he was a great human being.

:33:58.:33:58.

When it comes to the musicians the composer has known and worked

:33:59.:34:01.

with, it's hard keeping up with Jones.

:34:02.:34:03.

Now what about the presidential election?

:34:04.:34:08.

I'll leave the country if that sucker won.

:34:09.:34:16.

I assume you're referring to Mr Trump.

:34:17.:34:18.

Very clever man and he knows how to say what they want to hear.

:34:19.:34:25.

Uneducated rednecks, he knows how to talk to them.

:34:26.:34:28.

I used to hang out with him. Did you?

:34:29.:34:33.

A lot, yeah. Were you friends at one time?

:34:34.:34:35.

Yeah, back then, but he wasn't like that, man, at all.

:34:36.:34:39.

He used to fly with his helicopter with his name on the bottom of it.

:34:40.:34:45.

And what about how things are in your country right now?

:34:46.:34:49.

We keep reading reports of these difficulties

:34:50.:34:51.

You should have seen the 30s, 40s and 50s.

:34:52.:34:59.

In the 30s in Chicago during the depression

:35:00.:35:03.

I wanted to be a gangster until I was 11.

:35:04.:35:10.

Or I saw were dead bodies and Tommy guns and piles of money in back

:35:11.:35:19.

rooms and all that stuff. This right there, I was in the wrong street and

:35:20.:35:24.

they took a switchblade and put my hand on the fence and right there

:35:25.:35:29.

was an ice pick. My daddy hit them in the head with a hammer.

:35:30.:35:40.

And as for racism, Jones remembers playing in Las Vegas in 1964,

:35:41.:35:47.

backing Frank Sinatra as part of the Count Basie Orchestra. Belafonte, in

:35:48.:35:58.

the kitchen, they couldn't go in, and sleep in a black hotel across

:35:59.:36:03.

town. We came there, and Frank said, we're not going to have that. The

:36:04.:36:09.

old man wants to see you at the slot machines, there was an old man and

:36:10.:36:15.

18 bodyguards. He said if anybody looks at him money, break both of

:36:16.:36:20.

their legs. Frank was tough! And he stopped racism there. So it was

:36:21.:36:25.

burgers with Sinatra on the strip but also fish with Picasso on the

:36:26.:36:31.

French Riviera. Didn't you live near Picasso for a while? Yes, in Cannes.

:36:32.:36:40.

We went to lunch one year. After he had finished, he would get the bones

:36:41.:36:50.

and put them onto La Croisette Cillessen could blunt them and he

:36:51.:36:54.

took the colours out of his pocket, blue and yellow and red and he put

:36:55.:37:03.

his designs on them. And the cheque. -- so the Sun could burn them.

:37:04.:37:14.

Unlike his fellow band leader, the late great James Brown, Jones said

:37:15.:37:21.

he would not dream of finding musicians for missing a beat. So

:37:22.:37:24.

what is the secret of getting the best out of them? It's love, man,

:37:25.:37:33.

come on, it's not necessary to be a disciplinarian. That's what I didn't

:37:34.:37:36.

like, what was that may be that won the Oscar? Whiplash. That is BS, no

:37:37.:37:45.

jazz magician would take that, get out of here.

:37:46.:37:53.

Thank you very much and thank you to Quincy Jones for the beautiful

:37:54.:37:58.

music. But before we go we are looking

:37:59.:38:07.

after the first in a sieve of performances from artists appearing

:38:08.:38:11.

at this year's Proms. -- a series called tonight we have the

:38:12.:38:15.

Zimbabwean singer Tempo magazine will be performing tomorrow. You can

:38:16.:38:20.

catch that on BBC for tomorrow night -- who will be performing.

:38:21.:38:24.

# Speak up cause the prophets seem to have gone to sleep

:38:25.:38:28.

# Make a war on terror, terror is taking its war out on me

:38:29.:38:32.

# Oh, why you gonna go and put the fuel into the middle of the fire

:38:33.:38:38.

# It's ablaze, and the temperature is slowly getting higher

:38:39.:38:45.

# We can talk about the heroes and the villains

:38:46.:38:49.

# We can hear about the heroes and the villains

:38:50.:39:01.

# Pins and needles shooting up and down all over me

:39:02.:39:11.

# Feels like true conviction, still, it's so hard to know what to believe

:39:12.:39:14.

# It's a game of smoke and mirrors all around me

:39:15.:39:21.

# Do you know the heroes and the villains in this town

:39:22.:39:28.

# We can talk about the heroes and the villains

:39:29.:39:35.

# We can hear about the heroes and the villains

:39:36.:39:44.

Rain pushing back across Northern Ireland overnight tonight will

:39:45.:40:07.

spread steadily across Scotland tomorrow making for a Dell and damp

:40:08.:40:10.

day for many bulls it could start of soggy in northern England with a

:40:11.:40:14.

grey and misty start in the south but for most it will be a cracking

:40:15.:40:18.

day if you like it warm and sunny with

:40:19.:40:19.

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