Browse content similar to 16/09/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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With 8000 451 votes, the leader of the UK Independence Party, Diane | :00:14. | :00:16. | |
James! Diane James is the | :00:17. | :00:18. | |
new leader of Ukip. But will serial resigner | :00:19. | :00:20. | |
Nigel Farage be able to stay out Ukip has a new boss, | :00:21. | :00:23. | |
and she's already told Theresa May to "get on with" getting | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
the UK out of the EU. She seems to be already putting | :00:28. | :00:29. | |
old noses out of joint. You appear to have been replaced by | :00:30. | :00:45. | |
a coffee break. Yes. Well, I suppose... Well, I don't know. It is | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
a change of regime. And I just don't understand what is happening. | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
Sir Bradley Wiggins, Russian hackers and banned substances that | :00:55. | :00:56. | |
The woman who helped write the doping rule-book | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
And it's not just medical records hackers have released this week. | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
Is privacy becoming a thing of the past? | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
And if it is, is it in the public interest? | :01:09. | :01:21. | |
The UK Independence Party has a new leader. | :01:22. | :01:24. | |
But with Brexit secured and former leader Nigel Farage | :01:25. | :01:27. | |
apparently intending to take a more conventional approach to resignation | :01:28. | :01:31. | |
than he did last time - or the time before that - | :01:32. | :01:35. | |
Diane James, the party's MEP for South East England, | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
today emerged victorious after a leadership contest that was, | :01:41. | :01:43. | |
for the most part, as devoid of the usual rancour | :01:44. | :01:46. | |
So who is she and what's to become of a party that has | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
David Grossman spent the day at the party conference | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
It is an absolute pleasure to announce, with 8,451 votes, | :01:57. | :02:03. | |
the leader of the UK Independence Party, Diane James! | :02:04. | :02:09. | |
As Nigel Farage supposedly bowed out for the third time, | :02:10. | :02:16. | |
his replacement this time had a message for the Prime Minister. | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
From one grammar school girl to another... | :02:21. | :02:23. | |
Stop the faff, stop the fudge, and the farce. | :02:24. | :02:32. | |
That clearly went down well in the hall, but of course, | :02:33. | :02:42. | |
a fact Diane James was reminded of repeatedly | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
during her first press conference as leader. | :02:47. | :02:48. | |
You are replacing one of the three, four or five best-known faces | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
And for a lot of voters, this might be the first time | :02:52. | :03:00. | |
they have become aware of Diane James. | :03:01. | :03:02. | |
How would you introduce yourself to the British people? | :03:03. | :03:04. | |
Exactly what you see in front of you, an MEP. | :03:05. | :03:16. | |
Justice and Home Affairs spokesman for Ukip. | :03:17. | :03:23. | |
Held Theresa May to account for two years. | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
that she is also a pretty ruthless political operator. | :03:27. | :03:29. | |
No sooner had Diane James been elected than she removed | :03:30. | :03:32. | |
Neil Hamilton from the list of speakers on tomorrow's agenda. | :03:33. | :03:39. | |
The former Conservative minister is blamed by many | :03:40. | :03:41. | |
he has been replaced with a coffee break. | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
It's a change of regime, and I just don't understand what's happening. | :03:47. | :03:57. | |
What is your reaction to her election as leader of Ukip? | :03:58. | :04:04. | |
Well, I was prepared to work with her and, | :04:05. | :04:07. | |
as part of the team leadership that Ukip now needs, | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
But we are a political party, not a fringe group | :04:13. | :04:22. | |
One of those Mr Hamilton came into conflict with | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
To add to the drama, today she defected to the Conservatives, | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
It's going to be hard for them to differentiate themselves | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
because she's doing wonderful policies that are likely to appeal | :04:39. | :04:47. | |
How dysfunctional has the party been? | :04:48. | :04:50. | |
you wouldn't want baby-sitting your dog, let alone running for office, | :04:51. | :04:57. | |
And it's a shame, because what I've seen over the years | :04:58. | :05:07. | |
is the talent and future promise of the party | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
essentially being excised from the party. | :05:11. | :05:11. | |
# Who do you think you are kidding, Mr Cameron? | :05:12. | :05:14. | |
After all of those last-minute agenda changes, | :05:15. | :05:16. | |
you'll be glad to know the Ukip choir, with their rendition | :05:17. | :05:18. | |
of Who Do You Think You Are Kidding, Mr Cameron, | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
will be appearing in tomorrow's event. | :05:22. | :05:24. | |
The fact that it's still David Cameron in their song | :05:25. | :05:27. | |
suggests a party that may be struggling to come to terms | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
with the new post-Brexit referendum political reality. | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
now that Britain has voted to leave the EU? | :05:35. | :05:42. | |
One academic believes that Ukip can appeal beyond Brexit. | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
There are broader issues around inequality, disadvantage, | :05:48. | :05:49. | |
left behind groups, particularly white working class communities | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
that feel as though they're not getting heard in modern Britain. | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
you can see in many other European countries, | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
successful populist movements, Five Star in Italy, | :06:03. | :06:04. | |
So I think there is room for a party like Ukip. | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
But it will have to resolve its internal problems - | :06:10. | :06:11. | |
lack of unity, no money, dwindling membership. | :06:12. | :06:13. | |
There is no gratitude and little loyalty in politics today. | :06:14. | :06:20. | |
Having delivered on its signature policy, some in Ukip | :06:21. | :06:23. | |
might have been expecting to be riding high right now. | :06:24. | :06:26. | |
But no party has a right to exist, let alone thrive. | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
So, where do Ukip voters want the party to go next? | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
Secunder Kermani has been to West Bromwich, | :06:38. | :06:39. | |
West Bromwich West was one of over 100 seats where Ukip came second in | :06:40. | :06:58. | |
last year's general election, making inroads into traditional Labour | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
heartland. But with Brexit now a reality, not a campaign slogan, what | :07:03. | :07:09. | |
next for Ukip? We paid the local branch's social club visit, and it | :07:10. | :07:17. | |
wasn't your average pub. We have the pub on this side, and on this site, | :07:18. | :07:25. | |
we have the shop. And this is also the Ukip social club? Do they prefer | :07:26. | :07:32. | |
the beads or the public? They prefer both. People from all walks of life | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
come in. That is why you have the purple beads! Ray Crawford is a man | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
of many beads and many hats. Amongst other things, he is a Ukip council | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
candidate and he wants the party to position itself in the middle of | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
British politics. The working class now are people earning ?15,000 to | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
?80,000 a year, and are all struggling. Nobody is looking after | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
them. Labour is looking after the people who don't earn the ?15,000, | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
and on the other side, the Tory party is looking after the people | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
who earn more. There is a massive gap in the middle. And do you think | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
that without Nigel Farage, you can have the same popular appeal ever | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
again? I am still dreaming of the fact that he will turn around | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
tomorrow and say I am sorry I resigned, I am coming back! Voters | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
here in the Black Country firmly backed Brexit, but many Ukip | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
supporters doubt it will be delivered. I don't believe we will | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
be out of Europe until I see it on paper. You voted Ukip last time, are | :08:38. | :08:44. | |
you going to vote for them again? Yes. Why? They haven't done the job | :08:45. | :08:51. | |
yet. But the government says it will take us out of Europe. But have they | :08:52. | :08:58. | |
done it? You don't trust them? No. So is the party just a one trick | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
pony? Now that the UK is leaving the EU, what is the point of Ukip? Ukip | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
of 11, because they are going to keep the government to the candle, | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
if you like, make sure we don't get Brexit light. I think Ukip has | :09:14. | :09:19. | |
served a fantastic purpose so far, but that is not the end of them by a | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
long way. It is fantastic today that we have got Diane James, who got 48% | :09:24. | :09:30. | |
of the vote. She has a clear mandate. The disenchantment many | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
Ukip voters have with mainstream politics remains, and that may leave | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
many of them to stick with the party. But Ukip will have to define | :09:39. | :09:41. | |
itself on more than just Brexit to broaden its appeal. | :09:42. | :09:44. | |
Secunder Kermani reporting from West Bromwich. | :09:45. | :09:47. | |
He defected from there to Ukip two years ago. | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
He's the party's economics spokesman and sits in the Welsh Assembly - | :09:53. | :09:55. | |
Let's start in Wales, because you have a new leader nationally. You | :09:56. | :10:09. | |
have an old leader locally, Neil Hamilton. They already appear to be | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
at loggerheads. Does someone like you now have to pick a side? Well, I | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
pick Ukip's side and I try and work with people across the party. We | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
have to build a team. We have to reach out and make use of all the | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
talent within the party. It is fantastic that Bayern has won this | :10:30. | :10:39. | |
contest. -- Diane. She has beefed your leader of the speaking roster | :10:40. | :10:41. | |
and replaced him with a coffee break. You can call for unity but | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
she doesn't appear to be minded to deliver it. There has been a bit of | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
tension between Neil Hamilton and Nathan Gale, but Diane has come in | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
as a new leader and the conference has been prepared and there have | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
been proposals over what to showcase. Ultimately, Diane has just | :11:01. | :11:03. | |
been elected as a leader, and if she wants to have a particular programme | :11:04. | :11:10. | |
tomorrow, that is her right. But for people who don't follow these | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
matters closely, Nathan Gill was the former leader of Ukip in the Welsh | :11:15. | :11:17. | |
assembly who now sits as an independent after falling out with | :11:18. | :11:20. | |
Neil Hamilton, but remains a Ukip MEP? Yes. We got seven members of | :11:21. | :11:31. | |
the Welsh assembly elected. But he sits as an independent. Can you tell | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
us more about Diane James? You saw my colleague trying to put a little | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
flesh on the bones, but apart from the sort of detail we could have | :11:40. | :11:42. | |
found on her business card, he was not successful. Do you know her | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
well? I don't know her well. I know Diane. I have a professional | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
relationship with her. The thing I would emphasise most about her is | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
that like me, she has fought a by-election. And she came | :11:56. | :12:03. | |
extraordinarily close to winning Eastleigh from a strong local Lib | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
Dem campaign. She understands how to appeal to voters in the middle, had | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
to expand our appeal. You are giving a CV, I am looking for something | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
more weighty, something about her that we don't know. What she does | :12:19. | :12:27. | |
is, she engages with voters. She goes out and understands what people | :12:28. | :12:33. | |
want, speaks to people and reflects on what they say. She puts forward | :12:34. | :12:42. | |
an attractive image of wanting to change things to benefit people in | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
this country. In Eastleigh, she was nearly elected. But there is one | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
candidate who has done even better and got elected, Douglas Carswell. | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
She has not spoken to him for three months. Do you know why? I am not | :12:56. | :13:02. | |
sure exactly... She has not spoken to Ukip's only MP. I think Douglas | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
and Diane have a working relationship. I have been at | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
meetings where they have worked together. She said one of her | :13:12. | :13:14. | |
priorities will be to meet Douglas and discuss how best she works with | :13:15. | :13:21. | |
our Ukip parliamentary party. The party's former PR, a few moments | :13:22. | :13:28. | |
ago, described Ukip as being roughly half of them so dysfunctional that | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
she wouldn't let them babysit her dog. Does that tally with what you | :13:33. | :13:35. | |
recognise, bearing in mind that she has been with the party longer than | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
you? That is a little unfair. Alex has done some work with me and | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
occasionally put me forward to appear on programmes like this. I | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
wish her well and far be it from me to criticise someone for choosing to | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
move from one party to another. But this notion of dysfunction, some of | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
the names and personalities of the party you joined, Suzanne Evans | :13:59. | :14:01. | |
wrote the manifesto that you fought on in the last election. She has | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
been essentially eased out of proceedings. Stephen Wolfe, for | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
reasons that remain opaque, couldn't stand at all. Many felt he was Mr | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
Farage's preferred candidate, and we are left with this question mark | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
hangover Diane Jones, who you tell us wants to change things and | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
reaches over to engage people. I don't imagine there is a politician | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
in the country who would not seek to fit that description. What does she | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
seek to change? What would be at the top of her to-do list? You mentioned | :14:32. | :14:43. | |
Suzanne Evans and Stephen Wolff. I would like to see Diane make sure | :14:44. | :14:46. | |
both of them play leading roles in the party. We had a superb manifesto | :14:47. | :14:48. | |
that Suzanne wrote. I developed a lot of those ideas in a Welsh | :14:49. | :14:51. | |
context for the election we won. Diane has to explain in her own | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
words, and with her own passion, what our party is for. We have | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
succeeded in getting out of the European Union. Very briefly, can | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
you tell me what you think the party is for now that the eye bit of Ukip | :15:07. | :15:12. | |
has been achieved? I think it is to get back our democracy. I was | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
against the EU because I am a Democrat, not because I am a | :15:18. | :15:20. | |
nationalist. We don't just want power back from Brussels to Britain, | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
but then getting that power down to local communities and giving people | :15:25. | :15:27. | |
back the sense that they are in charge of their destiny and have | :15:28. | :15:32. | |
influence over their own lives. In your programme last night, people | :15:33. | :15:35. | |
were paying two and a half times the price of electricity for 50 years | :15:36. | :15:38. | |
because these corporate interests decide what is going to happen for | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
them. We have to look to ordinary people in this country and try and | :15:43. | :15:45. | |
make sure people have the opportunity of a better life, not | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
having costs piled on them by a political elite and cartel that | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
needs to be shaken up. And it is Ukip that speaks for the ordinary | :15:54. | :15:56. | |
person, not for the corporate elites to make this a better country. | :15:57. | :16:03. | |
But not necessarily speaking with one voice just yet. Mark Reckless, | :16:04. | :16:06. | |
thank you. Few sportspeople have been more | :16:07. | :16:09. | |
strident in their anti-doping In a sport beset by suspicion, | :16:10. | :16:11. | |
accusation and actual offences, the Tour de France winning cyclist | :16:12. | :16:14. | |
and five-time Olympic gold medal winner has always made much | :16:15. | :16:17. | |
of his desire to cleanse his sport of the stains left by the disgraced | :16:18. | :16:20. | |
doper Lance Armstrong. This week, though, a group | :16:21. | :16:23. | |
of Russian hackers leaked the stolen medical records | :16:24. | :16:25. | |
of the World Anti-Doping Agency, WADA, and Wiggins's name | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
was among those found to have special medical exemptions | :16:31. | :16:33. | |
to take banned substances. And while there is no | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
suggestion of any wrongdoing, the nature and timing of those | :16:39. | :16:41. | |
exemptions have posed His is a sport long tainted | :16:42. | :16:44. | |
by illegal drug taking, so it has fallen on the likes | :16:45. | :16:55. | |
of Sir Bradley Wiggins to try We are the ones picking up | :16:56. | :16:58. | |
the pieces are much so and having to, I suppose, convince people | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
that the sport has changed. It is difficult to convince some | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
people, it really is, because of the precedent that has | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
been set and so ingrained I haven't got the answer on how | :17:12. | :17:14. | |
to do that other than to go out there and keep doing what | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
I am doing, you know. Now, however, it is Sir Bradley | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
who faces scrutiny, although there is no suggestion | :17:24. | :17:26. | |
he has broken anti-doping rules. This week's revelations revealed | :17:27. | :17:30. | |
that Wiggins had obtained an official exemption known as a TUE | :17:31. | :17:32. | |
or therapeutic use exemption, to use Sir Bradley suffers from asthma | :17:33. | :17:37. | |
and has a pollen allergy as well. This drug, which is banned | :17:38. | :17:45. | |
during competition is used to treat serious allergies, | :17:46. | :17:49. | |
but it is also known to be abused by athletes to help them | :17:50. | :17:52. | |
recover and burn fat. Sir Bradley's former cycling team, | :17:53. | :17:56. | |
Team Sky, applied for him to use a significant dose of this drug, | :17:57. | :17:59. | |
just days before the start of Grand Tours in 2011 and 2012, | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
when he won the Tour So why is Sir Bradley Wiggins facing | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
questions when he has Well, by contrast, Lance Armstrong | :18:10. | :18:15. | |
was a cyclist who for years abused corticosteroids and the system | :18:16. | :18:23. | |
of medical exemptions that can He got a retrospective | :18:24. | :18:25. | |
exemption that subsequently admitted he was using it | :18:26. | :18:34. | |
for performance enhancing reasons. Team Sky have a well know zero | :18:35. | :18:38. | |
tolerance policy towards drugs, but they have admitted | :18:39. | :18:41. | |
it was a mistake to have given freelance work in 2011 and 2012 | :18:42. | :18:44. | |
to a doctor who was subsequently banned for life for doping | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
violations in a previous role. Among various violations, | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
Geert Leinders had admitted questionable quarter corticosteroids | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
exemptions. In his autobiography, | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
Sir Bradley says, I have When asked about this | :19:03. | :19:04. | |
apparent contradiction injections revealed this week, | :19:05. | :19:10. | |
a spokesman for Sir Bradley Wiggins everyone knows Brad | :19:11. | :19:16. | |
suffers from asthma. His medical treatment is BC | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
and UCI approved. Team Sky told us: Applications made | :19:21. | :19:29. | |
by Team Sky for TUEs have all been managed and recorded in line | :19:30. | :19:32. | |
with the processes put in place Joining me now is Michele Verroken, | :19:33. | :19:35. | |
a former director of ethics and anti-doping at UK Sport, | :19:36. | :19:41. | |
who designed and implemented current internationally accepted | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
standards for doping control, Thank you for joining us. Forgive | :19:46. | :20:01. | |
me, if this is a really silly question, but if I take this | :20:02. | :20:09. | |
particular substance or any form of corticosteroid because I have asthma | :20:10. | :20:15. | |
or allergies, does it retain its performance enhancing capabilities? | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
The question is really whether some of the substance on the prohibited | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
list do have performing enhancing benefits at the therapeutic dose. We | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
may be talking about the overuse of medicines and the inappropriate use | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
of medicines when people do not have that particular medical condition. | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
It is re-difficult to answer your question about whether there is some | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
correlation between you having this substance and suddenly becoming an | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
elite athlete. I am not suggesting that that I have two cyclists here. | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
I think this is what the average fan of the sport, and it is not just | :20:52. | :20:57. | |
cycling, there are two cyclists, one of them has hay fever and the other | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
one doesn't. That means the fellow with the allergies is allowed to | :21:02. | :21:04. | |
take this drug which it is believed can help burn fat and help with | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
recovery times. There are suggestions it could be useful in | :21:09. | :21:14. | |
the mountain stages of a tour. The other cyclist doesn't have allergies | :21:15. | :21:17. | |
so he can't take it. Is there any advantage accrued by the one who can | :21:18. | :21:23. | |
take the substance? The athlete with the allergies has to deal with the | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
allergies so quite honestly, no, is the answer, if they are dealing with | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
allergic reactions, they are looking at a treatment in order to be able | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
to continue to compete. But there is a perception, and that is the | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
trouble, perception. Anyone who thinks that someone else is getting | :21:41. | :21:48. | |
an advantage might themselves be tempted to cheat or to say, well, I | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
think I've got a bit of an allergic reaction, can I have that? How is | :21:52. | :21:57. | |
that police? That is one of the critical issues around this story | :21:58. | :22:04. | |
that in actual fact, if someone is using a medication and they believe | :22:05. | :22:07. | |
that it is going to help them, others look to see why they | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
shouldn't be using those kind of treatment, even if they do not have | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
that ailment. That is where the ova medicalised at an off the support | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
that we do give to elite athletes has really let down the fairness of | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
sport, because, if you have got the doctors who are prepared to | :22:26. | :22:31. | |
prescribe... So we have to much information? We may have to much | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
medical help going into elite sport that is actually wrong league | :22:36. | :22:43. | |
supporting athletes. Doctors looking for loopholes? Exactly, and it's | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
without medical conditions obtaining these substances and the | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
verification. What do they have to do, just as a bit? No, there is a | :22:53. | :22:58. | |
rigorous testing system. For something like asthma, I would not | :22:59. | :23:07. | |
like to be... I was not making light of it. There is a bronchial | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
provocation test and that is not nice for any asthmatic. As long as | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
everyone around the world is being put through the same rigorous | :23:16. | :23:19. | |
testing and that is what we cannot guarantee, that the standard | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
operating for the approval of their repeated use exemptions is not | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
without some degree of bias, some degree of lack of independence in | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
the decision-making and it takes time for those who are in the layers | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
of the system that are in place, to actually reject that application. It | :23:37. | :23:43. | |
may be too late. This is going to involve quite a feat of imagination | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
on your part, but imagine I was an elite athlete, can any doctor | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
provide my diagnosis which I take to the governing body and say I am | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
allowed this? Not quite any doctor. It would have to be someone who has | :23:59. | :24:04. | |
though medical expertise. That there is no licensing by the body, it is a | :24:05. | :24:08. | |
professional qualification they need? Not yet. It is at medical | :24:09. | :24:14. | |
qualification but it is peer reviewed by other doctors who would | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
look at your case independently and also anonymously and would come to | :24:19. | :24:21. | |
the conclusion did that diagnostic evidence show that you needed that | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
substance and there was no other permitted alternative. Would it be | :24:26. | :24:31. | |
easier to get rid of the secrecy and have everything made public, it | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
everybody was using every substance on the record. I am not a fan of | :24:37. | :24:42. | |
this because I do think what we have seen just recently is a major | :24:43. | :24:48. | |
privacy breach. We have seen athletes who trust the anti-doping | :24:49. | :24:54. | |
system and share it with approved people, it has let them down. I | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
don't think athletes should be afraid to have medical conditions | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
and seek help for any illness they may have, but it is really not the | :25:03. | :25:07. | |
case that we should be making every athlete now demonstrate their whole | :25:08. | :25:14. | |
medical history. Michele Verroken, thank you. That leads me neatly to | :25:15. | :25:20. | |
my next guest. It is almost as if we planned it. | :25:21. | :25:23. | |
Athletes are not the only ones to have endured the leaking | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
Private emails from former US Secretary of State Colin Powell, | :25:27. | :25:29. | |
in which he was less than flattering about both Donald Trump | :25:30. | :25:32. | |
and Hillary Clinton, are private no more. | :25:33. | :25:34. | |
And donors to the Democratic Party, who expected their largesse | :25:35. | :25:36. | |
to remain secret, have also been outed. | :25:37. | :25:43. | |
Tonnes of information released by hackers. How much should be released | :25:44. | :25:51. | |
and how much is in the public interest? | :25:52. | :25:53. | |
Professor Jonathan Zittrain is faculty director | :25:54. | :25:55. | |
at the Berkman Center for Internet and Society at Harvard University | :25:56. | :25:58. | |
Professor. We seem to be moving quickly from a world in which | :25:59. | :26:07. | |
whistle-blowers and hackers seem to act because they felt they should, | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
into a world in which people are accessing and releasing this | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
information simply because they can? Well, I think that is right. It is | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
not simply because they can, because they may have their own agendas in | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
mind, and that may mean the axis two e-mail and selectively release what | :26:27. | :26:32. | |
they like, to create a mosaic. Each piece may be true but where the | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
overall collection ends up suggesting something false. What | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
strikes me is how much the public have got used to it. We take it as | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
course that the private e-mails of a private citizen, essentially talking | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
to his friends about his opinions of the candidates, we take it that we | :26:52. | :26:56. | |
are entitled to see that when it is left on the doorstep of news | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
organisations. You say there is no moral compass on the part of the | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
people releasing the information. Obviously, we should all be a little | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
bit careful about our private information but none of us can be | :27:10. | :27:15. | |
completely safe? May be true but it is quite dangerous to think the end | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
of the discussion is well, that will teach him to use e-mail. Electronic | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
communication is now part of all our lives. I don't think we want to | :27:25. | :27:34. | |
return to information being conducted in a park as if it was a | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
drugs transaction. Or having to become official selves when you | :27:40. | :27:42. | |
become US Secretary of state, I guess you are that forever and have | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
to start acting as if you are on a news programme even when you are | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
talking to your friends, that seems corrosive for a free society. The | :27:51. | :27:56. | |
cessation of privacy once you become public. Is there anyway to stop it? | :27:57. | :28:02. | |
Well, I think there may be some longer term remedies. The fact that | :28:03. | :28:09. | |
we still have e-mail in the form it was in the 1990s, it is time to | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
figure out ways to upgrade it. That could include having our trove of | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
e-mail going back years, that might be accumulated in an online account | :28:20. | :28:24. | |
because the storage is cheap, it should not be ready to leak like the | :28:25. | :28:30. | |
exon valve these through a couple of keystrokes for hacker. There may be | :28:31. | :28:37. | |
a way to have what they call glacial storage. Eyebrows get raised | :28:38. | :28:44. | |
digitally speaking if someone is asking for everything. What would | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
you consider personally to be a legitimate hack, so to speak? There | :28:50. | :28:55. | |
are times when a system itself has enough issues, enough corruption. | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
Anything that gets into the hands of the press, as the fourth estate, as | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
a function of whistle-blowing, might be a candidate to say, while the | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
means of getting it was a little unusual or even bad, it is sunlight | :29:08. | :29:16. | |
being a disinfectant. But this is not corruption of public official, | :29:17. | :29:22. | |
this is private correspondence by a private citizen. Then if we say it | :29:23. | :29:28. | |
may be private correspondence that you are a public figure, that links | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
to celebrities with leaks of their photo account and saying, they | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
decided to be celebrities they had it coming. I think that is a | :29:39. | :29:43. | |
dehumanising attitude and it will mean the only people who seek the | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
spotlight will be people who are in new to having their private cells | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
completely dissected and may not be representative of the range of | :29:53. | :29:56. | |
people we want taking public office. A lot of the most prominent | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
celebrities on the planet seem to be not just comfortable but committed | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
to sharing every aspect of their existence with their fans. As you | :30:05. | :30:09. | |
suggest, there is a form of Darwinian selection going on. Maybe | :30:10. | :30:12. | |
those who would pursue the exposure are ones who for whatever reasons | :30:13. | :30:18. | |
crave it, but even they may be carefully cultivating an image and | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
have smaller and smaller spaces in which to explore, identify and | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
express their true selves. When that is the case, I think the opportunity | :30:28. | :30:32. | |
to bring one humanity into a job or a roll, or to be a role model that | :30:33. | :30:40. | |
way, becomes quite limited. I think to allow our cynicism to start to | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
equate genuine whistle-blowing with any form of hack of anybody, and | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
just treat it as any other form of data, as if we were reading a | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
history from 100 years ago, that strikes me as very corrosive to a | :30:55. | :31:00. | |
free society. Professor guest-macro, thank you. That is almost it for | :31:01. | :31:09. | |
this evening. The Rio Paralympic Games are almost over but we thought | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
we would give you a recapture of the astonishing Team GB gold haul. Good | :31:15. | :31:17. | |
night. # stars of track and field you are, | :31:18. | :31:34. | |
# Stars of track and field you are, # Stars of track and field you are | :31:35. | :31:37. | |
beautiful people... | :31:38. | :31:39. |