In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with James O'Brien.
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With 8000 451 votes, the leader of the UK Independence Party, Diane
James! Diane James is the
new leader of Ukip. But will serial resigner
Nigel Farage be able to stay out Ukip has a new boss,
and she's already told Theresa May to "get on with" getting
the UK out of the EU. She seems to be already putting
old noses out of joint. You appear to have been replaced by
a coffee break. Yes. Well, I suppose... Well, I don't know. It is
a change of regime. And I just don't understand what is happening.
Sir Bradley Wiggins, Russian hackers and banned substances that
The woman who helped write the doping rule-book
And it's not just medical records hackers have released this week.
Is privacy becoming a thing of the past?
And if it is, is it in the public interest?
The UK Independence Party has a new leader.
But with Brexit secured and former leader Nigel Farage
apparently intending to take a more conventional approach to resignation
than he did last time - or the time before that -
Diane James, the party's MEP for South East England,
today emerged victorious after a leadership contest that was,
for the most part, as devoid of the usual rancour
So who is she and what's to become of a party that has
David Grossman spent the day at the party conference
It is an absolute pleasure to announce, with 8,451 votes,
the leader of the UK Independence Party, Diane James!
As Nigel Farage supposedly bowed out for the third time,
his replacement this time had a message for the Prime Minister.
From one grammar school girl to another...
Stop the faff, stop the fudge, and the farce.
That clearly went down well in the hall, but of course,
a fact Diane James was reminded of repeatedly
during her first press conference as leader.
You are replacing one of the three, four or five best-known faces
And for a lot of voters, this might be the first time
they have become aware of Diane James.
How would you introduce yourself to the British people?
Exactly what you see in front of you, an MEP.
Justice and Home Affairs spokesman for Ukip.
Held Theresa May to account for two years.
that she is also a pretty ruthless political operator.
No sooner had Diane James been elected than she removed
Neil Hamilton from the list of speakers on tomorrow's agenda.
The former Conservative minister is blamed by many
he has been replaced with a coffee break.
It's a change of regime, and I just don't understand what's happening.
What is your reaction to her election as leader of Ukip?
Well, I was prepared to work with her and,
as part of the team leadership that Ukip now needs,
But we are a political party, not a fringe group
One of those Mr Hamilton came into conflict with
To add to the drama, today she defected to the Conservatives,
It's going to be hard for them to differentiate themselves
because she's doing wonderful policies that are likely to appeal
How dysfunctional has the party been?
you wouldn't want baby-sitting your dog, let alone running for office,
And it's a shame, because what I've seen over the years
is the talent and future promise of the party
essentially being excised from the party.
# Who do you think you are kidding, Mr Cameron?
After all of those last-minute agenda changes,
you'll be glad to know the Ukip choir, with their rendition
of Who Do You Think You Are Kidding, Mr Cameron,
will be appearing in tomorrow's event.
The fact that it's still David Cameron in their song
suggests a party that may be struggling to come to terms
with the new post-Brexit referendum political reality.
now that Britain has voted to leave the EU?
One academic believes that Ukip can appeal beyond Brexit.
There are broader issues around inequality, disadvantage,
left behind groups, particularly white working class communities
that feel as though they're not getting heard in modern Britain.
you can see in many other European countries,
successful populist movements, Five Star in Italy,
So I think there is room for a party like Ukip.
But it will have to resolve its internal problems -
lack of unity, no money, dwindling membership.
There is no gratitude and little loyalty in politics today.
Having delivered on its signature policy, some in Ukip
might have been expecting to be riding high right now.
But no party has a right to exist, let alone thrive.
So, where do Ukip voters want the party to go next?
Secunder Kermani has been to West Bromwich,
West Bromwich West was one of over 100 seats where Ukip came second in
last year's general election, making inroads into traditional Labour
heartland. But with Brexit now a reality, not a campaign slogan, what
next for Ukip? We paid the local branch's social club visit, and it
wasn't your average pub. We have the pub on this side, and on this site,
we have the shop. And this is also the Ukip social club? Do they prefer
the beads or the public? They prefer both. People from all walks of life
come in. That is why you have the purple beads! Ray Crawford is a man
of many beads and many hats. Amongst other things, he is a Ukip council
candidate and he wants the party to position itself in the middle of
British politics. The working class now are people earning ?15,000 to
?80,000 a year, and are all struggling. Nobody is looking after
them. Labour is looking after the people who don't earn the ?15,000,
and on the other side, the Tory party is looking after the people
who earn more. There is a massive gap in the middle. And do you think
that without Nigel Farage, you can have the same popular appeal ever
again? I am still dreaming of the fact that he will turn around
tomorrow and say I am sorry I resigned, I am coming back! Voters
here in the Black Country firmly backed Brexit, but many Ukip
supporters doubt it will be delivered. I don't believe we will
be out of Europe until I see it on paper. You voted Ukip last time, are
you going to vote for them again? Yes. Why? They haven't done the job
yet. But the government says it will take us out of Europe. But have they
done it? You don't trust them? No. So is the party just a one trick
pony? Now that the UK is leaving the EU, what is the point of Ukip? Ukip
of 11, because they are going to keep the government to the candle,
if you like, make sure we don't get Brexit light. I think Ukip has
served a fantastic purpose so far, but that is not the end of them by a
long way. It is fantastic today that we have got Diane James, who got 48%
of the vote. She has a clear mandate. The disenchantment many
Ukip voters have with mainstream politics remains, and that may leave
many of them to stick with the party. But Ukip will have to define
itself on more than just Brexit to broaden its appeal.
Secunder Kermani reporting from West Bromwich.
He defected from there to Ukip two years ago.
He's the party's economics spokesman and sits in the Welsh Assembly -
Let's start in Wales, because you have a new leader nationally. You
have an old leader locally, Neil Hamilton. They already appear to be
at loggerheads. Does someone like you now have to pick a side? Well, I
pick Ukip's side and I try and work with people across the party. We
have to build a team. We have to reach out and make use of all the
talent within the party. It is fantastic that Bayern has won this
contest. -- Diane. She has beefed your leader of the speaking roster
and replaced him with a coffee break. You can call for unity but
she doesn't appear to be minded to deliver it. There has been a bit of
tension between Neil Hamilton and Nathan Gale, but Diane has come in
as a new leader and the conference has been prepared and there have
been proposals over what to showcase. Ultimately, Diane has just
been elected as a leader, and if she wants to have a particular programme
tomorrow, that is her right. But for people who don't follow these
matters closely, Nathan Gill was the former leader of Ukip in the Welsh
assembly who now sits as an independent after falling out with
Neil Hamilton, but remains a Ukip MEP? Yes. We got seven members of
the Welsh assembly elected. But he sits as an independent. Can you tell
us more about Diane James? You saw my colleague trying to put a little
flesh on the bones, but apart from the sort of detail we could have
found on her business card, he was not successful. Do you know her
well? I don't know her well. I know Diane. I have a professional
relationship with her. The thing I would emphasise most about her is
that like me, she has fought a by-election. And she came
extraordinarily close to winning Eastleigh from a strong local Lib
Dem campaign. She understands how to appeal to voters in the middle, had
to expand our appeal. You are giving a CV, I am looking for something
more weighty, something about her that we don't know. What she does
is, she engages with voters. She goes out and understands what people
want, speaks to people and reflects on what they say. She puts forward
an attractive image of wanting to change things to benefit people in
this country. In Eastleigh, she was nearly elected. But there is one
candidate who has done even better and got elected, Douglas Carswell.
She has not spoken to him for three months. Do you know why? I am not
sure exactly... She has not spoken to Ukip's only MP. I think Douglas
and Diane have a working relationship. I have been at
meetings where they have worked together. She said one of her
priorities will be to meet Douglas and discuss how best she works with
our Ukip parliamentary party. The party's former PR, a few moments
ago, described Ukip as being roughly half of them so dysfunctional that
she wouldn't let them babysit her dog. Does that tally with what you
recognise, bearing in mind that she has been with the party longer than
you? That is a little unfair. Alex has done some work with me and
occasionally put me forward to appear on programmes like this. I
wish her well and far be it from me to criticise someone for choosing to
move from one party to another. But this notion of dysfunction, some of
the names and personalities of the party you joined, Suzanne Evans
wrote the manifesto that you fought on in the last election. She has
been essentially eased out of proceedings. Stephen Wolfe, for
reasons that remain opaque, couldn't stand at all. Many felt he was Mr
Farage's preferred candidate, and we are left with this question mark
hangover Diane Jones, who you tell us wants to change things and
reaches over to engage people. I don't imagine there is a politician
in the country who would not seek to fit that description. What does she
seek to change? What would be at the top of her to-do list? You mentioned
Suzanne Evans and Stephen Wolff. I would like to see Diane make sure
both of them play leading roles in the party. We had a superb manifesto
that Suzanne wrote. I developed a lot of those ideas in a Welsh
context for the election we won. Diane has to explain in her own
words, and with her own passion, what our party is for. We have
succeeded in getting out of the European Union. Very briefly, can
you tell me what you think the party is for now that the eye bit of Ukip
has been achieved? I think it is to get back our democracy. I was
against the EU because I am a Democrat, not because I am a
nationalist. We don't just want power back from Brussels to Britain,
but then getting that power down to local communities and giving people
back the sense that they are in charge of their destiny and have
influence over their own lives. In your programme last night, people
were paying two and a half times the price of electricity for 50 years
because these corporate interests decide what is going to happen for
them. We have to look to ordinary people in this country and try and
make sure people have the opportunity of a better life, not
having costs piled on them by a political elite and cartel that
needs to be shaken up. And it is Ukip that speaks for the ordinary
person, not for the corporate elites to make this a better country.
But not necessarily speaking with one voice just yet. Mark Reckless,
thank you. Few sportspeople have been more
strident in their anti-doping In a sport beset by suspicion,
accusation and actual offences, the Tour de France winning cyclist
and five-time Olympic gold medal winner has always made much
of his desire to cleanse his sport of the stains left by the disgraced
doper Lance Armstrong. This week, though, a group
of Russian hackers leaked the stolen medical records
of the World Anti-Doping Agency, WADA, and Wiggins's name
was among those found to have special medical exemptions
to take banned substances. And while there is no
suggestion of any wrongdoing, the nature and timing of those
exemptions have posed His is a sport long tainted
by illegal drug taking, so it has fallen on the likes
of Sir Bradley Wiggins to try We are the ones picking up
the pieces are much so and having to, I suppose, convince people
that the sport has changed. It is difficult to convince some
people, it really is, because of the precedent that has
been set and so ingrained I haven't got the answer on how
to do that other than to go out there and keep doing what
I am doing, you know. Now, however, it is Sir Bradley
who faces scrutiny, although there is no suggestion
he has broken anti-doping rules. This week's revelations revealed
that Wiggins had obtained an official exemption known as a TUE
or therapeutic use exemption, to use Sir Bradley suffers from asthma
and has a pollen allergy as well. This drug, which is banned
during competition is used to treat serious allergies,
but it is also known to be abused by athletes to help them
recover and burn fat. Sir Bradley's former cycling team,
Team Sky, applied for him to use a significant dose of this drug,
just days before the start of Grand Tours in 2011 and 2012,
when he won the Tour So why is Sir Bradley Wiggins facing
questions when he has Well, by contrast, Lance Armstrong
was a cyclist who for years abused corticosteroids and the system
of medical exemptions that can He got a retrospective
exemption that subsequently admitted he was using it
for performance enhancing reasons. Team Sky have a well know zero
tolerance policy towards drugs, but they have admitted
it was a mistake to have given freelance work in 2011 and 2012
to a doctor who was subsequently banned for life for doping
violations in a previous role. Among various violations,
Geert Leinders had admitted questionable quarter corticosteroids
exemptions. In his autobiography,
Sir Bradley says, I have When asked about this
apparent contradiction injections revealed this week,
a spokesman for Sir Bradley Wiggins everyone knows Brad
suffers from asthma. His medical treatment is BC
and UCI approved. Team Sky told us: Applications made
by Team Sky for TUEs have all been managed and recorded in line
with the processes put in place Joining me now is Michele Verroken,
a former director of ethics and anti-doping at UK Sport,
who designed and implemented current internationally accepted
standards for doping control, Thank you for joining us. Forgive
me, if this is a really silly question, but if I take this
particular substance or any form of corticosteroid because I have asthma
or allergies, does it retain its performance enhancing capabilities?
The question is really whether some of the substance on the prohibited
list do have performing enhancing benefits at the therapeutic dose. We
may be talking about the overuse of medicines and the inappropriate use
of medicines when people do not have that particular medical condition.
It is re-difficult to answer your question about whether there is some
correlation between you having this substance and suddenly becoming an
elite athlete. I am not suggesting that that I have two cyclists here.
I think this is what the average fan of the sport, and it is not just
cycling, there are two cyclists, one of them has hay fever and the other
one doesn't. That means the fellow with the allergies is allowed to
take this drug which it is believed can help burn fat and help with
recovery times. There are suggestions it could be useful in
the mountain stages of a tour. The other cyclist doesn't have allergies
so he can't take it. Is there any advantage accrued by the one who can
take the substance? The athlete with the allergies has to deal with the
allergies so quite honestly, no, is the answer, if they are dealing with
allergic reactions, they are looking at a treatment in order to be able
to continue to compete. But there is a perception, and that is the
trouble, perception. Anyone who thinks that someone else is getting
an advantage might themselves be tempted to cheat or to say, well, I
think I've got a bit of an allergic reaction, can I have that? How is
that police? That is one of the critical issues around this story
that in actual fact, if someone is using a medication and they believe
that it is going to help them, others look to see why they
shouldn't be using those kind of treatment, even if they do not have
that ailment. That is where the ova medicalised at an off the support
that we do give to elite athletes has really let down the fairness of
sport, because, if you have got the doctors who are prepared to
prescribe... So we have to much information? We may have to much
medical help going into elite sport that is actually wrong league
supporting athletes. Doctors looking for loopholes? Exactly, and it's
without medical conditions obtaining these substances and the
verification. What do they have to do, just as a bit? No, there is a
rigorous testing system. For something like asthma, I would not
like to be... I was not making light of it. There is a bronchial
provocation test and that is not nice for any asthmatic. As long as
everyone around the world is being put through the same rigorous
testing and that is what we cannot guarantee, that the standard
operating for the approval of their repeated use exemptions is not
without some degree of bias, some degree of lack of independence in
the decision-making and it takes time for those who are in the layers
of the system that are in place, to actually reject that application. It
may be too late. This is going to involve quite a feat of imagination
on your part, but imagine I was an elite athlete, can any doctor
provide my diagnosis which I take to the governing body and say I am
allowed this? Not quite any doctor. It would have to be someone who has
though medical expertise. That there is no licensing by the body, it is a
professional qualification they need? Not yet. It is at medical
qualification but it is peer reviewed by other doctors who would
look at your case independently and also anonymously and would come to
the conclusion did that diagnostic evidence show that you needed that
substance and there was no other permitted alternative. Would it be
easier to get rid of the secrecy and have everything made public, it
everybody was using every substance on the record. I am not a fan of
this because I do think what we have seen just recently is a major
privacy breach. We have seen athletes who trust the anti-doping
system and share it with approved people, it has let them down. I
don't think athletes should be afraid to have medical conditions
and seek help for any illness they may have, but it is really not the
case that we should be making every athlete now demonstrate their whole
medical history. Michele Verroken, thank you. That leads me neatly to
my next guest. It is almost as if we planned it.
Athletes are not the only ones to have endured the leaking
Private emails from former US Secretary of State Colin Powell,
in which he was less than flattering about both Donald Trump
and Hillary Clinton, are private no more.
And donors to the Democratic Party, who expected their largesse
to remain secret, have also been outed.
Tonnes of information released by hackers. How much should be released
and how much is in the public interest?
Professor Jonathan Zittrain is faculty director
at the Berkman Center for Internet and Society at Harvard University
Professor. We seem to be moving quickly from a world in which
whistle-blowers and hackers seem to act because they felt they should,
into a world in which people are accessing and releasing this
information simply because they can? Well, I think that is right. It is
not simply because they can, because they may have their own agendas in
mind, and that may mean the axis two e-mail and selectively release what
they like, to create a mosaic. Each piece may be true but where the
overall collection ends up suggesting something false. What
strikes me is how much the public have got used to it. We take it as
course that the private e-mails of a private citizen, essentially talking
to his friends about his opinions of the candidates, we take it that we
are entitled to see that when it is left on the doorstep of news
organisations. You say there is no moral compass on the part of the
people releasing the information. Obviously, we should all be a little
bit careful about our private information but none of us can be
completely safe? May be true but it is quite dangerous to think the end
of the discussion is well, that will teach him to use e-mail. Electronic
communication is now part of all our lives. I don't think we want to
return to information being conducted in a park as if it was a
drugs transaction. Or having to become official selves when you
become US Secretary of state, I guess you are that forever and have
to start acting as if you are on a news programme even when you are
talking to your friends, that seems corrosive for a free society. The
cessation of privacy once you become public. Is there anyway to stop it?
Well, I think there may be some longer term remedies. The fact that
we still have e-mail in the form it was in the 1990s, it is time to
figure out ways to upgrade it. That could include having our trove of
e-mail going back years, that might be accumulated in an online account
because the storage is cheap, it should not be ready to leak like the
exon valve these through a couple of keystrokes for hacker. There may be
a way to have what they call glacial storage. Eyebrows get raised
digitally speaking if someone is asking for everything. What would
you consider personally to be a legitimate hack, so to speak? There
are times when a system itself has enough issues, enough corruption.
Anything that gets into the hands of the press, as the fourth estate, as
a function of whistle-blowing, might be a candidate to say, while the
means of getting it was a little unusual or even bad, it is sunlight
being a disinfectant. But this is not corruption of public official,
this is private correspondence by a private citizen. Then if we say it
may be private correspondence that you are a public figure, that links
to celebrities with leaks of their photo account and saying, they
decided to be celebrities they had it coming. I think that is a
dehumanising attitude and it will mean the only people who seek the
spotlight will be people who are in new to having their private cells
completely dissected and may not be representative of the range of
people we want taking public office. A lot of the most prominent
celebrities on the planet seem to be not just comfortable but committed
to sharing every aspect of their existence with their fans. As you
suggest, there is a form of Darwinian selection going on. Maybe
those who would pursue the exposure are ones who for whatever reasons
crave it, but even they may be carefully cultivating an image and
have smaller and smaller spaces in which to explore, identify and
express their true selves. When that is the case, I think the opportunity
to bring one humanity into a job or a roll, or to be a role model that
way, becomes quite limited. I think to allow our cynicism to start to
equate genuine whistle-blowing with any form of hack of anybody, and
just treat it as any other form of data, as if we were reading a
history from 100 years ago, that strikes me as very corrosive to a
free society. Professor guest-macro, thank you. That is almost it for
this evening. The Rio Paralympic Games are almost over but we thought
we would give you a recapture of the astonishing Team GB gold haul. Good
night. # stars of track and field you are,
# Stars of track and field you are, # Stars of track and field you are