In-depth investigation and analysis with Evan Davis. When will the Syrian war end? Plus a look at Hungary and migrants, shadow cabinet elections and the Optic Cloak.
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No aid, no ceasefire, no end to the war, now or in sight.
Syria's stalemated civil war defies all attempts at resolution,
and punishes those trying to ease civilian pain.
When both sides realise they're not going to win militarily
and the people are just suffering unnecessarily, that's when you get
to the stage where you can try and end the war.
In Syria I feel we are still some way off that.
The US State Department will tell us if there is any way out.
Lib Dem leader Tim Farron gives his big conference speech.
There is a hole in the centre of British politics right now,
for a rallying point for people who believe in the politics of
We'll ask whether the political centre is flourishing or withering?
I was competing against other artists to try and respond to this
quite minimal kind of strange massing that was a requirement of
planning, but which had to cover these flues.
How to dress up a chimney, the new work from Conrad Shawcross.
First, somebody bombed an aid convoy yesterday,
There is little doubt as to what happened -
this relief worker told Newsnight what he saw.
TRANSLATION: What happened is almost two hours before the bombing we
heard and we saw a drone. As soon as the regime announced the end of the
ceasefire, I had concerns it would start bombing because it flew over
us for a long time. After two hours the helicopter came and dropped the
first barrel bomb. After half a minute had dropped to barrel bombs
together and afterwards six air strikes by the military jet. Then
the Jets with guns launched an attack. Afterwards helicopters came
back to drop barrel bombs and the jet with gunners came back and
started firing. That was last night, tonight there's
news of another attack - the US charity UOSSM say five
of its aid workers have been killed at the Khan Touman emergency
point in southern Aleppo. Of course, everyone's
looking at the Syrian government or the Russians,
but what we know is that there's not much left
of the latest ceasefire in Syria. The protracted horror
continues, the conflict Now, research shows the average
civil war last a decade or so, but in Syria, the conditions
are there for it to be unceasing. Neither side will ever run out
of weapons, with a queue of foreign powers ready to re-arm them
if they appear in danger of losing. Our diplomatic editor Mark Urban
looks at the ghastly kinetics It's a conflict in which taboos and
limitations have been broken. Neighbourhoods have been
starved, millions driven overseas, aid convoys bombed
and the beheading or mistreatment of prisoners elevated
into public spectacle. History has recorded quite a few
brutal civil war is but this one has reached a particularly grim pitch of
murderous intensity. It fits against one another and an array of forces,
on the far end of which are President Assad and those around him
who believe they will be physically eliminated if they lose, and the
jihadist enemy who think they are divinely ordained in their
slaughter. It has become much more brutal than
Bosnia which I saw at first hand. It became brutal quite quickly in 2012
but the arrival of ices and the way Isis went about fighting and
imposing their rule and particularly treating their captives, whichever
captives they took including Syrian government soldiers, added an extra
dimension of brutality which has been truly shocking.
Some of Syria's larger cities have been pounded to the point where the
ruins stretch for miles. Catalogued by these Russian journalists. More
than half of the country's population has fled its homes while
mediators have told the warring parties they cannot win, they have
not despite all of this, reached a point where exhaustion leads them to
abandon the war. If you look at other civil wars
around the world and how they ended generally speaking if they are
turned by negotiation the end when you reach something the academics
call a mutually heading stalemate. When I went to Libya as special
envoy I thought we have got a stalemate but we did not have a
mutually hurting stalemate, both sides could still advance, game or
territory or money. It is when both sides realise they're not going to
win militarily and both sides are suffering, that is when you get to a
stage where you can end the war. Will the Syrian war simply carry on
until one or both sides have fought to exhaustion? It is more
complicated than that, that in a way has already happened with the forces
of President Assad plagued by desertion and barely capable on
their own of offensive action. And of course they have had thousands of
fighters join them from Hezbollah, from Iraq, Iran and indeed from
Russia. And that has kept them fighting, highlighting the key role
now of outside intervention. With a dozen air forces operating
over the country and arms pouring in for years only China amongst the UN
big five has not become directly involved. And that along with Iran,
Saudi and Turkish policies, has stymied the search for any
international solution. Huge divisions between the US, Russia,
the Saudis and Iran and the future of Assad, until that is resolved and
the troops on the ground issue was resolved, you will have continued
casualties. 75,000 people are now at risk, the manager convoys are not
getting through, Syrians are bombing convoys, the US bombing Syrians, it
is a disaster. But few outside powers have the appetite for a
completely open-ended intervention. And even Russia and Iran have
suggested limits on their willingness to support the Assad
regime. Eventually that could weigh on the warring parties. I hope it
ends soon but I fear it may take some time. I think as in most other
conflicts in the past at some stage there will be a mutually hurting
stalemate, the rebels will do better at militarily, Assad will be on the
back foot, the Russians will have other reasons to get out of Syria
was protecting the interest. Then I think you could begin serious
negotiations but I do not think the conflict will end or the fight
against ices, until Assad is gone. How long could the Syrian war now in
its sixth year go on? The Bosnian conflict was brought to an end by
foreign intervention on one side with the aim of coercing a halt to
the whole business. Perhaps the closest example we can seek to Syria
is the war in Lebanon. And many of the same groups and the same
outsiders were involved. And which in one form or another continued for
15 years. Joining us from the UN in New York
is Mark Toner Deputy Spokesperson Good evening and thank you for
joining us. On that attack on the aid convoy yesterday, you're sure it
is the Russians, 99%, 100% sure? What I can say categorically is it
was not coalition forces. We were not operating in that space. It was
either Russia or the regime. And in either case really it is the
responsibility of Russia to exert its influence on the regime's Edfors
so it bears ultimate responsibility for carrying out what was a
horrendous attack. Is the ceasefire, a ceasefire in all but name, is that
worth preserving at this point, West for giving Russia for what has
happened and saying, let's start again, or not? There was a meeting
earlier today in New York with the international Syria support group
and it was a very candid exchange as you can imagine. I think everyone
came out of that room, all the stakeholders, with the realisation
that we needed to stick with the arrangement we reached with Russia a
week ago in Geneva. Because it offers the best opportunity to get
this critical negotiation back on track and bring an end to the
conflict, the daily suffering and fighting of the Syrian people. You
spoke of this cycle of violence and complexity of the battle space in
Syria. And we need that is the idea behind this Syria support group,
bringing together all the stakeholders, ultimately with the
idea that if we can get them around the table, they can exert influence
is on the parties on the ground. To really make a change. Do you think
that what happened on Saturday when coalition forces, when the US and
indeed the UK killed 62 Syrian troops, accidentally, do you think
that had anything to do with what happened last night? It is hard for
me to say, I cannot speak to the motivations for the terrible actions
yesterday. We have said it publicly, acknowledged it almost immediately,
that the air strike on Saturday that hit regime forces was in error. We
thought we were hitting Isil, Daesh, forces. And we acknowledge that and
we owned it. We are conducting an investigation into what went wrong.
More broadly fixed to the fact that we need to get to a point and we're
not there yet, where we can coordinate possibly with Russia on
air strikes against al-Nusra and Daesh. They claim to want that as
well but we cannot get there. Let's talk about the longer term, supposed
I told you this would be a leaden uncivil war going on for another ten
years, only a third of the way through. I gave you that has a
choice or you given, Assad is going to be in power, and he prevails.
Surely that would be better for the Syrian people, Assad winning rather
than continuing this conflict? Not at all. That is a false choice in my
view. Assad has really been the instigator of all the terrible
conflict that exists today in Syria whether it is terrible attacks, Bal
bombing, gassing of his own people, he has created the environment that
we find Syria in today will you have a moderate opposition driven into
the arms of some of the extremist groups like al-Nusra because they
are defending themselves against the regime backed by Russian air forces.
And you have got an environment where a group like Daesh, Isil, can
inhabit ungoverned spaces. Really this is the reality of Assad's
creation and he is in no way part of the solution. This has got to be a
political process ultimately. But you would agree that foreign
intervention, that effectively just keep each of these two sides, more
than the two sides, all the sides in this conflict going, it will keep
them going endlessly, basically foreign intervention is prolonging
the war, correct? That is the idea behind the international Syria
support group. Secretary Kerry and others brought this group together
with the idea that if we could get all the stakeholders, and Iran and
Russia are part of this, get them in a room and said look there is no
military solution to this, it can only go from bad to worse and we all
acknowledge that. And secretary Kerry spoke of this but the
arrangement if it falls apart, we could see even more violence, even
worse warfare and greater conflict for the Syrian people. This hinges
on the ability of the stakeholders to influence all the parties on the
ground to adhere to a cessation of hostilities and we're not yet bear.
We recognise that. Let's hope we get there soon.
The National Executive talking about important rule changes
on how the Shadow Cabinet should be selected.
that split the party on Corbyn/anti-Corbyn lines.
Our political editor Nick Watt is with me.
What news from Rome? It was long at eight and a half hours at least, and
superficially it was friendly, Jeremy Corbyn shed shortbread and
biscuits with Tom Watson, but make no mistake, this is a battle for
control of the Labour Party, and on the crucial issue of whether MPs
should elect the Shadow Cabinet, there is deadlock. Each side was
able to claim a little victory, so the non-Corbyn side were happy
because it was agreed that the leaders of the Scottish and Welsh
Labour Party microbe will be able to nominate members for the NEC. Jeremy
Corbyn's side were happy, because they were able to prolong
discussions on the elections to the Shadow Cabinet. They saw off a
guillotine to force a vote one that at Saturday's meeting of the NEC.
Tom Watson looked quite happy, they said they did not reject the plan,
but it feels to me that Jeremy Corbyn is slightly ahead, and he is
hoping that if he wins the election on Saturday, later that day there
will be a meeting of the NEC and he will hope that he can say to them,
we need more time to discuss this proposal, widen the franchise, and
at the end of the conference the new NEC takes over, and they are more
favourable to him. Where does this leave us in terms of Jeremy Corbyn
winning on Saturday, where the battle goes next year? There is
going to be a continuing and bitter battle for control of the party, but
in phase two it will be different. Phase one was about most of the PLP
taking potshots at Jeremy Corbyn, that will be more difficult if he
wins the election. Phase two will be about the battle for who runs this
party, and in a way it will be back to the 1980s, where you will see
Jeremy Corbyn seeking to fulfil the vision of his hero, Tony Benn, which
is you diminish the role of the Parliamentary Labour Party and boost
the role of the party membership, and people like Tom Watson will save
no, we are governed by clause one of the constitution which says it is
our duty to sustain a covenant, which means the PLP must be the
premier body of the party. Nick, thanks.
A week ago, the foreign minister of Luxembourg suggested that Hungary
should be expelled from the EU, over its treatment of asylum seekers
and violations of press freedom and judicial independence,
It was a short but vitriolic spat, and it put into the open
the concerns of many west Europeans at the direction Hungary is taking
under its populist prime minister, Viktor Orban,
a man who talks about foreigners in language that other
At the moment Hungary is preparing to vote on whether to reject
an EU quota plan for migrants that would place refugees in the country.
is that that will endanger Hungary's culture and traditions.
Well, the Hungarian foreign minister, Pater Szijjarto,
is in New York for the UN General Assembly.
I spoke to him a little earlier and before we discussed his
government's attitude to refugees, I asked him about
what Hungary would accept in any post-Brexit trade talks.
We understand that the negotiations will be tough.
We understand the UK has very strong interest.
Of course, the more open the labour market in the UK stays
And if Britain says, look, we'd like to be in the single market
but we can't have free movement, is that possible, do you think?
Well, you know, I think it's not likely to happen,
because if you would like to have total access to free markets,
you have to give something on the other hand.
So being a member of the European Union means that
you are a member of the single market and you provide
the others with an approach to your labour markets.
Well, look, Hungary is a country that has its own reservations
You're having a referendum on the quota deal
for the refugees and migrants that are being resettled,
How many have you been asked to take, as it happens?
Well, under the current circumstances,
But, you know, this is not about figures.
This is about the overall approach to the migration issue.
Our position is that we have to give up policies which inspire
people to take the life hazard and come to Europe.
Our approach is that we have to bring the help
It sounds like you like some European laws, like free movement
for your people to emigrate to the UK, which has caused
a lot of disruption in the UK, some people would say.
But you don't like other European laws
which mean people can emigrate to your country.
No, no, you must not confuse these two things.
Because free movement of people means that citizens
of the European Union can move freely
What we don't accept is that there are people
who would like to violate our borders, you know.
There are European and international regulations how you can cross
borders between countries, and during the recent year
there were 400,000 people who violated our border.
Coming from a peaceful country, from Serbia or from Croatia.
This is something we're not going to accept.
OK, well, many would say rules are rules and you have to take
all the rules, or you don't take the rules.
But let me just ask you one last one.
There's a leaflet in your referendum campaign, a government leaflet,
and it tells the Hungarian people in advocating less migration
that there are hundreds, several hundred no-go areas in Europe
where migrants have taken over and people can get.
I think there are about a dozen, you say, in the UK.
Well, actually, we based these informations
on open reports, on official reports
given by the police of respective countries.
From the news and from official reports of the police.
and we don't want no-go zones in Hungary, for sure.
So you think that there are no-go zones,
migrant no-go zones in the UK, a dozen of them?
Because you marked them, I think, in Peterborough,
I mean, you've been to London, haven't you?
Yes, of course, I like London a lot, no problem.
And you still believe there are no-go areas in London
where you can't go because the migrants have taken over?
Yes, this is something we based on official reports.
You can use your eyes, it's just ridiculous.
Of course I can. Of course I can.
But did you talk to the British Government
before you published this about the United Kingdom?
It's a slur on the United Kingdom, by the way an inaccurate slur
on the United Kingdom - did you talk to the British Government
or even your embassy in London before you published this
Yes, of course we did talk to our embassy in London.
We have looked through very carefully the official report.
And to be very honest after we published this leaflet,
your ambassador serving in Budapest has come to my ministry to
Let's finish, Hungary is basically annoying
voices the idea that you should be kicked out of the European Union.
When you see things like this, distributing literature
that is false and defamatory of a nation, lots of nations,
actually, you can see why other governments just say,
this country is not playing by the rules that it signed up
That is why I think we are under attack, because we play according
to the rules of showing, we play according to the rules of Dublin.
These two rules have been violated by many people, many times,
we have been under attack because of playing according to these rules.
We have protected our external Schengen border with
a fence that took a lot of money, a lot of human resources,
but this is the way how you protect the Schengen zone.
We registered the migrants in Hungary
according to Dublin regulations, but they left before
their asylum procedures would have been carried out.
They were the ones to break these regulations.
So it is Hungary who plays according to European regulations,
And I totally subscribe to those who say we have to accept
these regulations and we have to respect them.
Pater Szijjarto, thank you very much for talking to us.
One of the great paradoxes of politics in the UK at the moment
is this, polling shows that getting on for half of the population
identify as centrist, and yet the party that is centrist,
the Lib Dems, languishes at 8% in the polls.
Well, Tim Farron gave his address to the Lib Dem
conference today, bad day to get attention,
with the Brangelina split story competing.
But Mr Farron said, "There is a hole in the centre of British politics
right now that is crying out to be filled by a real opposition,"
so it is interesting to ask whether the Lib Dems
are going to fill the hole, or sink through it?
They got almost seven million votes in 2010 but lost more
so I guess those four million should be first on the target list.
at whether those voters are disposed to think Lib Dem again.
On his way for his big conference speech.
Lib Dem leader Tim Farron waiting for the lights to change.
For his party, though, the electoral Green Man
could quite possibly never light up again.
On the local level they are very cheered up by winning
and they've had a large influx of new members into the party.
And clearly they see there is an opportunity for them
because Corbyn has taken the Labour Party way off to the left.
Unfortunately of course, the national picture remains
unchanged since before the last disastrous
general election result, which is the national polls
are still stuck way, way down in single figures.
These people have clearly stuck with the party,
the 4.4 million voters who voted for them in 2010
In some exclusive polling for Newsnight,
What they found should worry the Lib Dem leadership.
When asked whether they would consider voting Lib Dem again,
75% said they might, with varying degrees of commitment.
So it seems the lost Lib Dems might one day be recovered.
But when YouGov asked those same people
how much they felt they knew about what the Lib Dems
stand for these days, a staggering 70% said
they were either uncertain or very uncertain.
Johnny Oates was Nick Clegg's chief of staff
I think this really goes back to our pre-coalition days, to be honest,
where we always fought to get attention.
It's harder now because of the Scottish National Party
position, but it was always hard back then, and I think what we need
Probably a Parliamentary by-election that we can win
and, you know, there isn't one immediately on the horizon.
But that has often been the way that we have cut
through back to public attention because then the media
have to hear from us and they have to sit up and take notice.
Until the media thinks we are relevant,
we're not going to get our message across to the wider public.
Since the SNP became the third largest party in the comments,
the Lib Dems have had to forage for Parliamentary scraps.
However irritating the honourable gentleman...
Whilst his predecessors had two questions a week, Tim Farron
has only had six questions in the 34 PMQs since he became leader.
And he will be heard - Mr Tim Farron!
I am fantastically grateful to you, Mr Speaker.
In today's world, the world of social media, the world of
24-hour news, leaders are so important,
you see a leader who among the electorate, two thirds of the
people don't know whether he's doing well or badly.
Half of people that voted for the Lib Dems
at the last election don't know whether he is doing well or badly.
And among his own supporters, those people who
support the Lib Dems at the moment, just under a third don't know
That's a really bad position to be in.
But no-one can say that Tim Farron isn't ambitious.
Today he told his conference he wants to be like this man.
the rock star like Liberal Prime Minister of Canada.
Trudeau's liberals leapt over an inadequate official opposition
to defeat a right-wing Conservative government.
Do you fancy doing that? Because I do.
In a direct appeal to centrist Labour supporters,
Tony Blair's government gave us the national minimum wage.
and a massive school building programme.
but I will not criticise him for those things.
I think Tim Farron was absolutely right to make this pitch
for those disenfranchised moderate Labour voters
who now feel they have no-one to represent their views.
And indeed their worldview, which is essentially a liberal one.
The problem is both the Lib Dems and for
the moderate Labour Party, there is a gaping hole,
not just this tactical hole that Tim Farron was talking
about today, but a hole in terms of ideas and vision
And until the Lib Dems and the moderate Labour Party
or the moderate wing of the Labour Party
actually sort that out, what is it that they're actually
offering the voters as an alternative
One big policy that unites the centrists is staying in the EU,
The idea of the Lib Dems concentrating on staying part of the
EU is popular with about one in ten of the electorate
and about a quarter of their current supporters.
That is enough to put it at the top of the list of priorities.
But it is by no means overwhelmingly the case
thinks yes, that is what they should be doing.
These are not easy political times for any leader,
we are in a state of realignment and flux.
Tim Farron's party has arguably the most to gain.
But also perhaps the biggest challenge.
Joining me now in the studio is former policy advisor
to the Blair and Brown governments, Patrick Diamond, who is now based
And senior editor of The Economist Anne McElvoy.
Patrick, you are a Labour person. You would not vote Lib Dem even
though you're quite centrists. That is part of the problem in a way for
the Lib Dems, you are still tribally tied to Labour. Of course the Lib
Dems are tied to liberalism which has problems in the world today, not
least failing to react to the economic crisis of 2008. And also
Liberal politics is in crisis, people are dissatisfied with the
state of democracy. That is one issue. In addition the Lib Dems are
associated with the period of coalition government. They relied on
some historic promises like tuition fees. So now the position is
weakened. Taking the bigger picture, 45% of people say they are centrist,
the Lib Dems have eight, the two big parties, the Tories still jostling
for position, is happening? Most people would identify as centrists
but they mean many things by that. Then you have a fragmentation on the
left, the Corbin Labour Party, moving further to the left than in
living memory. So new Labour is ill-defined and on the right you can
see the potential, Theresa May trying to glue together the right of
her party and more progressive, liberal part of the party. George
Osborne went out and used the word liberal as much as the word
Conservative. That is where the fight is that hole in the middle and
perhaps the Liberal Democrats are too associated with recently being
in government and suffering that backwash. They have lost a lot of
body mass. Patrick, it was the financial crash, that funded to the
system and the people in the middle, it is also the right of the Labour
Party, the leadership election last year, Yvette Cooper and Andy Burnham
did not quite have a convincing story. There is a crisis of ideas
and it feels as if the whole of the centre-left does not have a story
about Word wants to take the economy or politics. That is the real
vacuum. You can talk about leadership, the structure of
political parties, but also ideas. And the financial crash was so
tumultuous, it shook up the liberal capitalist market order and the
centrists were saying we just need to tweak this. We did not need
tweaks but radicalism, the bankers to be brought to heel. And the
Liberals seem too cautious. When we look at this crisis of liberalism,
we are in danger of presenting the kind of SA as to what is wrong. If
you look across Europe, in some places you get the left coming in,
in Spain for example, but also in many places the response is to go to
the right. Saint liberalism does not have a narrative, centrist parties
have often just said come with me, trust me. We will be able to answer
difficult questions by our disposition. Tony Blair said, I have
the answer to everything. It was so vague, the third way, basically it
is saying trust me because the Liberals have the better answers
overall. That is the confidence that is now lacking. You said they do not
have a good story and they do not have a charismatic leader, a person
who sounds like they have got a grip. I'm a bit worried when
everyone says, almost as if listening to some people in your
film, if you have a policy forum that it would emerge, a genie
emerging from a body to lead. -- from a bottle. Tony Blair to evoke
him, as a charismatic leader, if you lead they will follow. He was
trusted even in difficult times. Then Christian democracy follows, if
you have a Tony Blair then new Labour follows but for the Liberals,
I suppose you have to go to Canada and Justin Trudeau. It is
interesting, when arguably the liberal disposition could be
powerful, if you think of the questions dominating politics today,
the relationship between the individual and the state, between
central government and devolution, there are questions about future
relations with Europe and internationalism. These are
questions where liberals should have some things to say. So I do not
think it has run aground and is no longer relevant, but it is
struggling I think in the UK context to apply its values and connect with
people politically. Certainly around the world, and Justin Trudeau is a
good example, that charismatic leader, they are there. But we are
living through circumstances in which the extremes, but populist
left and right, seem to be gaining political ascendancy. Thank you very
much. If you like to think that modern art
is a lot of hot air, you'll like the new work
by the wunderkind British artist We're not talking a duct
for a new shower stall here, this is a shimmering aluminium tower
50 metres high, and it's You can admire it on the Greenwich
Peninsula not far from the O2. Our man Stephen Smith
went to see it. It's more like One Flew Over The
Cuckoo's Nest. It feels amazing, it's such
a sort of huge thing. It has fire escapes inside,
it has chimneys inside, it has flues inside,
it has gantry cranes. And there are all these fire
exits, all these things So it really is an
architectural response. And am I right in saying this
might be a door here? Yeah, this will be the way that
you access the towers if any of the flues need servicing
or the lights need changing. This sort of strange triangular
door that the workers Or Spider-Man could live
here, one of the other. Until now, your best
chance of seeing the work of Conrad Shawcross
was at an art gallery. Where his chunky, kinetic pieces
have a pleasing heft and twang. For his next trick, Shawcross
was invited to design a chimney for an industrial plant supplying
hot water to 15,000 homes here. I was approached a few years ago
and I entered into a competition, so I was competing
against other artists. This was such a different thing
for me and I kind of almost wrote this e-mail saying, I'm sorry,
I cant come up with an idea, Then I was like, no,
I've got to try and do this. This is a way I can really
prove my mettle, to see if I can It was all actually done
with pieces of paper. So it was actually quite simple,
just placing a piece of spare paper and creating in a very analog way
a kind of sculpted surface. One of the things in the brief
that they talked about was trying to transform this flue
into something else. So there was this sort of element
of disguise or cloaking, this idea of something pretending
to be something else. It took me down the road
of camouflage and the way things But then that took me down looking
at dazzle camouflage in the First World War
and camouflage in general. Then into things like
Cubism and David Bamberg. The gasometer that is just behind
us, the interference pattern at the front and back,
trying to create a skin that would somehow make it more
arresting, but yet disappear. I imagine there's always a slightly
heart in mouth moment when, as the architect,
you show your plans to the guys There was a lot of stuff that didn't
make a lot of sense to them. And there were a lot of meetings
with just sort of 20 blue-collar guys just sitting round a table
with me trying to explain this sort of optic effect to people
and how important it was. Did you hear what
they were muttering? There must've some people who didn't
get it, but hopefully now I don't know whether you would
consider this public art, but it's come in for a bit
of a bashing recently. I don't describe
this as an artwork. I think it's an architectural
response. I think public art is a very
difficult thing to get right. You do have to swallow your ego
a bit and really respond to both space, concept, history,
and all of those things. This will look really powerful
when someone is doing the washing up each night,
they will see the sun set behind it. And you'll get this very
interesting, alive kind of effect, where you just move your head
slightly from side to side and it creates all these different
sort of patterns. Have you tested it, so it
won't set cars alight? The panels are all completely flat,
so there's no kind of concave So we haven't looked into that,
but it doesn't seem to be an issue because there
is no lens effect. So we have your word,
really, don't we? He's used to people seeing
his work in galleries, but now you can clock it
from the Blackwall Tunnel approach. It's out of the frying pan
into the fire for Shawcross as his chimney puts its mark
on the skyline of the big smoke. All over the world, sober media
outlets have been pondering today on how to justify their coverage
of the break-up of Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt by trying to find some
serious theme to connect to it. I'm not going to deny, we've had
that discussion ourselves. But we did find this
particularly moving. Angelina Jolie speaking
about her marriage in November on NBC's Today show,
after the release of the movie, In the Sea, which she wrote,
directed and starred in along It's about a disintegrating
marriage. Well, I think, one, I'm counting
on the audience to know that if it was close to us at all,
we could never make this film. It's because we're actually
very, very stable. I think we have more
moments where I say, Just know what you're good at,
know what you're not. So yeah, I do have my like, no,
no, I'm going to get
In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Evan Davis. When will the Syrian war end? What next for the Liberal Democrats? Plus a look at Hungary and migrants, shadow cabinet elections and the Optic Cloak.