20/09/2016 Newsnight


In-depth investigation and analysis with Evan Davis. When will the Syrian war end? Plus a look at Hungary and migrants, shadow cabinet elections and the Optic Cloak.

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No aid, no ceasefire, no end to the war, now or in sight.


Syria's stalemated civil war defies all attempts at resolution,


and punishes those trying to ease civilian pain.


When both sides realise they're not going to win militarily


and the people are just suffering unnecessarily, that's when you get


to the stage where you can try and end the war.


In Syria I feel we are still some way off that.


The US State Department will tell us if there is any way out.


Lib Dem leader Tim Farron gives his big conference speech.


There is a hole in the centre of British politics right now,


for a rallying point for people who believe in the politics of


We'll ask whether the political centre is flourishing or withering?


I was competing against other artists to try and respond to this


quite minimal kind of strange massing that was a requirement of


planning, but which had to cover these flues.


How to dress up a chimney, the new work from Conrad Shawcross.


First, somebody bombed an aid convoy yesterday,


There is little doubt as to what happened -


this relief worker told Newsnight what he saw.


TRANSLATION: What happened is almost two hours before the bombing we


heard and we saw a drone. As soon as the regime announced the end of the


ceasefire, I had concerns it would start bombing because it flew over


us for a long time. After two hours the helicopter came and dropped the


first barrel bomb. After half a minute had dropped to barrel bombs


together and afterwards six air strikes by the military jet. Then


the Jets with guns launched an attack. Afterwards helicopters came


back to drop barrel bombs and the jet with gunners came back and


started firing. That was last night, tonight there's


news of another attack - the US charity UOSSM say five


of its aid workers have been killed at the Khan Touman emergency


point in southern Aleppo. Of course, everyone's


looking at the Syrian government or the Russians,


but what we know is that there's not much left


of the latest ceasefire in Syria. The protracted horror


continues, the conflict Now, research shows the average


civil war last a decade or so, but in Syria, the conditions


are there for it to be unceasing. Neither side will ever run out


of weapons, with a queue of foreign powers ready to re-arm them


if they appear in danger of losing. Our diplomatic editor Mark Urban


looks at the ghastly kinetics It's a conflict in which taboos and


limitations have been broken. Neighbourhoods have been


starved, millions driven overseas, aid convoys bombed


and the beheading or mistreatment of prisoners elevated


into public spectacle. History has recorded quite a few


brutal civil war is but this one has reached a particularly grim pitch of


murderous intensity. It fits against one another and an array of forces,


on the far end of which are President Assad and those around him


who believe they will be physically eliminated if they lose, and the


jihadist enemy who think they are divinely ordained in their


slaughter. It has become much more brutal than


Bosnia which I saw at first hand. It became brutal quite quickly in 2012


but the arrival of ices and the way Isis went about fighting and


imposing their rule and particularly treating their captives, whichever


captives they took including Syrian government soldiers, added an extra


dimension of brutality which has been truly shocking.


Some of Syria's larger cities have been pounded to the point where the


ruins stretch for miles. Catalogued by these Russian journalists. More


than half of the country's population has fled its homes while


mediators have told the warring parties they cannot win, they have


not despite all of this, reached a point where exhaustion leads them to


abandon the war. If you look at other civil wars


around the world and how they ended generally speaking if they are


turned by negotiation the end when you reach something the academics


call a mutually heading stalemate. When I went to Libya as special


envoy I thought we have got a stalemate but we did not have a


mutually hurting stalemate, both sides could still advance, game or


territory or money. It is when both sides realise they're not going to


win militarily and both sides are suffering, that is when you get to a


stage where you can end the war. Will the Syrian war simply carry on


until one or both sides have fought to exhaustion? It is more


complicated than that, that in a way has already happened with the forces


of President Assad plagued by desertion and barely capable on


their own of offensive action. And of course they have had thousands of


fighters join them from Hezbollah, from Iraq, Iran and indeed from


Russia. And that has kept them fighting, highlighting the key role


now of outside intervention. With a dozen air forces operating


over the country and arms pouring in for years only China amongst the UN


big five has not become directly involved. And that along with Iran,


Saudi and Turkish policies, has stymied the search for any


international solution. Huge divisions between the US, Russia,


the Saudis and Iran and the future of Assad, until that is resolved and


the troops on the ground issue was resolved, you will have continued


casualties. 75,000 people are now at risk, the manager convoys are not


getting through, Syrians are bombing convoys, the US bombing Syrians, it


is a disaster. But few outside powers have the appetite for a


completely open-ended intervention. And even Russia and Iran have


suggested limits on their willingness to support the Assad


regime. Eventually that could weigh on the warring parties. I hope it


ends soon but I fear it may take some time. I think as in most other


conflicts in the past at some stage there will be a mutually hurting


stalemate, the rebels will do better at militarily, Assad will be on the


back foot, the Russians will have other reasons to get out of Syria


was protecting the interest. Then I think you could begin serious


negotiations but I do not think the conflict will end or the fight


against ices, until Assad is gone. How long could the Syrian war now in


its sixth year go on? The Bosnian conflict was brought to an end by


foreign intervention on one side with the aim of coercing a halt to


the whole business. Perhaps the closest example we can seek to Syria


is the war in Lebanon. And many of the same groups and the same


outsiders were involved. And which in one form or another continued for


15 years. Joining us from the UN in New York


is Mark Toner Deputy Spokesperson Good evening and thank you for


joining us. On that attack on the aid convoy yesterday, you're sure it


is the Russians, 99%, 100% sure? What I can say categorically is it


was not coalition forces. We were not operating in that space. It was


either Russia or the regime. And in either case really it is the


responsibility of Russia to exert its influence on the regime's Edfors


so it bears ultimate responsibility for carrying out what was a


horrendous attack. Is the ceasefire, a ceasefire in all but name, is that


worth preserving at this point, West for giving Russia for what has


happened and saying, let's start again, or not? There was a meeting


earlier today in New York with the international Syria support group


and it was a very candid exchange as you can imagine. I think everyone


came out of that room, all the stakeholders, with the realisation


that we needed to stick with the arrangement we reached with Russia a


week ago in Geneva. Because it offers the best opportunity to get


this critical negotiation back on track and bring an end to the


conflict, the daily suffering and fighting of the Syrian people. You


spoke of this cycle of violence and complexity of the battle space in


Syria. And we need that is the idea behind this Syria support group,


bringing together all the stakeholders, ultimately with the


idea that if we can get them around the table, they can exert influence


is on the parties on the ground. To really make a change. Do you think


that what happened on Saturday when coalition forces, when the US and


indeed the UK killed 62 Syrian troops, accidentally, do you think


that had anything to do with what happened last night? It is hard for


me to say, I cannot speak to the motivations for the terrible actions


yesterday. We have said it publicly, acknowledged it almost immediately,


that the air strike on Saturday that hit regime forces was in error. We


thought we were hitting Isil, Daesh, forces. And we acknowledge that and


we owned it. We are conducting an investigation into what went wrong.


More broadly fixed to the fact that we need to get to a point and we're


not there yet, where we can coordinate possibly with Russia on


air strikes against al-Nusra and Daesh. They claim to want that as


well but we cannot get there. Let's talk about the longer term, supposed


I told you this would be a leaden uncivil war going on for another ten


years, only a third of the way through. I gave you that has a


choice or you given, Assad is going to be in power, and he prevails.


Surely that would be better for the Syrian people, Assad winning rather


than continuing this conflict? Not at all. That is a false choice in my


view. Assad has really been the instigator of all the terrible


conflict that exists today in Syria whether it is terrible attacks, Bal


bombing, gassing of his own people, he has created the environment that


we find Syria in today will you have a moderate opposition driven into


the arms of some of the extremist groups like al-Nusra because they


are defending themselves against the regime backed by Russian air forces.


And you have got an environment where a group like Daesh, Isil, can


inhabit ungoverned spaces. Really this is the reality of Assad's


creation and he is in no way part of the solution. This has got to be a


political process ultimately. But you would agree that foreign


intervention, that effectively just keep each of these two sides, more


than the two sides, all the sides in this conflict going, it will keep


them going endlessly, basically foreign intervention is prolonging


the war, correct? That is the idea behind the international Syria


support group. Secretary Kerry and others brought this group together


with the idea that if we could get all the stakeholders, and Iran and


Russia are part of this, get them in a room and said look there is no


military solution to this, it can only go from bad to worse and we all


acknowledge that. And secretary Kerry spoke of this but the


arrangement if it falls apart, we could see even more violence, even


worse warfare and greater conflict for the Syrian people. This hinges


on the ability of the stakeholders to influence all the parties on the


ground to adhere to a cessation of hostilities and we're not yet bear.


We recognise that. Let's hope we get there soon.


The National Executive talking about important rule changes


on how the Shadow Cabinet should be selected.


that split the party on Corbyn/anti-Corbyn lines.


Our political editor Nick Watt is with me.


What news from Rome? It was long at eight and a half hours at least, and


superficially it was friendly, Jeremy Corbyn shed shortbread and


biscuits with Tom Watson, but make no mistake, this is a battle for


control of the Labour Party, and on the crucial issue of whether MPs


should elect the Shadow Cabinet, there is deadlock. Each side was


able to claim a little victory, so the non-Corbyn side were happy


because it was agreed that the leaders of the Scottish and Welsh


Labour Party microbe will be able to nominate members for the NEC. Jeremy


Corbyn's side were happy, because they were able to prolong


discussions on the elections to the Shadow Cabinet. They saw off a


guillotine to force a vote one that at Saturday's meeting of the NEC.


Tom Watson looked quite happy, they said they did not reject the plan,


but it feels to me that Jeremy Corbyn is slightly ahead, and he is


hoping that if he wins the election on Saturday, later that day there


will be a meeting of the NEC and he will hope that he can say to them,


we need more time to discuss this proposal, widen the franchise, and


at the end of the conference the new NEC takes over, and they are more


favourable to him. Where does this leave us in terms of Jeremy Corbyn


winning on Saturday, where the battle goes next year? There is


going to be a continuing and bitter battle for control of the party, but


in phase two it will be different. Phase one was about most of the PLP


taking potshots at Jeremy Corbyn, that will be more difficult if he


wins the election. Phase two will be about the battle for who runs this


party, and in a way it will be back to the 1980s, where you will see


Jeremy Corbyn seeking to fulfil the vision of his hero, Tony Benn, which


is you diminish the role of the Parliamentary Labour Party and boost


the role of the party membership, and people like Tom Watson will save


no, we are governed by clause one of the constitution which says it is


our duty to sustain a covenant, which means the PLP must be the


premier body of the party. Nick, thanks.


A week ago, the foreign minister of Luxembourg suggested that Hungary


should be expelled from the EU, over its treatment of asylum seekers


and violations of press freedom and judicial independence,


It was a short but vitriolic spat, and it put into the open


the concerns of many west Europeans at the direction Hungary is taking


under its populist prime minister, Viktor Orban,


a man who talks about foreigners in language that other


At the moment Hungary is preparing to vote on whether to reject


an EU quota plan for migrants that would place refugees in the country.


is that that will endanger Hungary's culture and traditions.


Well, the Hungarian foreign minister, Pater Szijjarto,


is in New York for the UN General Assembly.


I spoke to him a little earlier and before we discussed his


government's attitude to refugees, I asked him about


what Hungary would accept in any post-Brexit trade talks.


We understand that the negotiations will be tough.


We understand the UK has very strong interest.


Of course, the more open the labour market in the UK stays


And if Britain says, look, we'd like to be in the single market


but we can't have free movement, is that possible, do you think?


Well, you know, I think it's not likely to happen,


because if you would like to have total access to free markets,


you have to give something on the other hand.


So being a member of the European Union means that


you are a member of the single market and you provide


the others with an approach to your labour markets.


Well, look, Hungary is a country that has its own reservations


You're having a referendum on the quota deal


for the refugees and migrants that are being resettled,


How many have you been asked to take, as it happens?


Well, under the current circumstances,


But, you know, this is not about figures.


This is about the overall approach to the migration issue.


Our position is that we have to give up policies which inspire


people to take the life hazard and come to Europe.


Our approach is that we have to bring the help


It sounds like you like some European laws, like free movement


for your people to emigrate to the UK, which has caused


a lot of disruption in the UK, some people would say.


But you don't like other European laws


which mean people can emigrate to your country.


No, no, you must not confuse these two things.


Because free movement of people means that citizens


of the European Union can move freely


What we don't accept is that there are people


who would like to violate our borders, you know.


There are European and international regulations how you can cross


borders between countries, and during the recent year


there were 400,000 people who violated our border.


Coming from a peaceful country, from Serbia or from Croatia.


This is something we're not going to accept.


OK, well, many would say rules are rules and you have to take


all the rules, or you don't take the rules.


But let me just ask you one last one.


There's a leaflet in your referendum campaign, a government leaflet,


and it tells the Hungarian people in advocating less migration


that there are hundreds, several hundred no-go areas in Europe


where migrants have taken over and people can get.


I think there are about a dozen, you say, in the UK.


Well, actually, we based these informations


on open reports, on official reports


given by the police of respective countries.


From the news and from official reports of the police.


and we don't want no-go zones in Hungary, for sure.


So you think that there are no-go zones,


migrant no-go zones in the UK, a dozen of them?


Because you marked them, I think, in Peterborough,


I mean, you've been to London, haven't you?


Yes, of course, I like London a lot, no problem.


And you still believe there are no-go areas in London


where you can't go because the migrants have taken over?


Yes, this is something we based on official reports.


You can use your eyes, it's just ridiculous.


Of course I can. Of course I can.


But did you talk to the British Government


before you published this about the United Kingdom?


It's a slur on the United Kingdom, by the way an inaccurate slur


on the United Kingdom - did you talk to the British Government


or even your embassy in London before you published this


Yes, of course we did talk to our embassy in London.


We have looked through very carefully the official report.


And to be very honest after we published this leaflet,


your ambassador serving in Budapest has come to my ministry to


Let's finish, Hungary is basically annoying


voices the idea that you should be kicked out of the European Union.


When you see things like this, distributing literature


that is false and defamatory of a nation, lots of nations,


actually, you can see why other governments just say,


this country is not playing by the rules that it signed up


That is why I think we are under attack, because we play according


to the rules of showing, we play according to the rules of Dublin.


These two rules have been violated by many people, many times,


we have been under attack because of playing according to these rules.


We have protected our external Schengen border with


a fence that took a lot of money, a lot of human resources,


but this is the way how you protect the Schengen zone.


We registered the migrants in Hungary


according to Dublin regulations, but they left before


their asylum procedures would have been carried out.


They were the ones to break these regulations.


So it is Hungary who plays according to European regulations,


And I totally subscribe to those who say we have to accept


these regulations and we have to respect them.


Pater Szijjarto, thank you very much for talking to us.


One of the great paradoxes of politics in the UK at the moment


is this, polling shows that getting on for half of the population


identify as centrist, and yet the party that is centrist,


the Lib Dems, languishes at 8% in the polls.


Well, Tim Farron gave his address to the Lib Dem


conference today, bad day to get attention,


with the Brangelina split story competing.


But Mr Farron said, "There is a hole in the centre of British politics


right now that is crying out to be filled by a real opposition,"


so it is interesting to ask whether the Lib Dems


are going to fill the hole, or sink through it?


They got almost seven million votes in 2010 but lost more


so I guess those four million should be first on the target list.


at whether those voters are disposed to think Lib Dem again.


On his way for his big conference speech.


Lib Dem leader Tim Farron waiting for the lights to change.


For his party, though, the electoral Green Man


could quite possibly never light up again.


On the local level they are very cheered up by winning


and they've had a large influx of new members into the party.


And clearly they see there is an opportunity for them


because Corbyn has taken the Labour Party way off to the left.


Unfortunately of course, the national picture remains


unchanged since before the last disastrous


general election result, which is the national polls


are still stuck way, way down in single figures.


These people have clearly stuck with the party,


the 4.4 million voters who voted for them in 2010


In some exclusive polling for Newsnight,


What they found should worry the Lib Dem leadership.


When asked whether they would consider voting Lib Dem again,


75% said they might, with varying degrees of commitment.


So it seems the lost Lib Dems might one day be recovered.


But when YouGov asked those same people


how much they felt they knew about what the Lib Dems


stand for these days, a staggering 70% said


they were either uncertain or very uncertain.


Johnny Oates was Nick Clegg's chief of staff


I think this really goes back to our pre-coalition days, to be honest,


where we always fought to get attention.


It's harder now because of the Scottish National Party


position, but it was always hard back then, and I think what we need


Probably a Parliamentary by-election that we can win


and, you know, there isn't one immediately on the horizon.


But that has often been the way that we have cut


through back to public attention because then the media


have to hear from us and they have to sit up and take notice.


Until the media thinks we are relevant,


we're not going to get our message across to the wider public.


Since the SNP became the third largest party in the comments,


the Lib Dems have had to forage for Parliamentary scraps.


However irritating the honourable gentleman...


Whilst his predecessors had two questions a week, Tim Farron


has only had six questions in the 34 PMQs since he became leader.


And he will be heard - Mr Tim Farron!


I am fantastically grateful to you, Mr Speaker.


In today's world, the world of social media, the world of


24-hour news, leaders are so important,


you see a leader who among the electorate, two thirds of the


people don't know whether he's doing well or badly.


Half of people that voted for the Lib Dems


at the last election don't know whether he is doing well or badly.


And among his own supporters, those people who


support the Lib Dems at the moment, just under a third don't know


That's a really bad position to be in.


But no-one can say that Tim Farron isn't ambitious.


Today he told his conference he wants to be like this man.


the rock star like Liberal Prime Minister of Canada.


Trudeau's liberals leapt over an inadequate official opposition


to defeat a right-wing Conservative government.


Do you fancy doing that? Because I do.


In a direct appeal to centrist Labour supporters,


Tony Blair's government gave us the national minimum wage.


and a massive school building programme.


but I will not criticise him for those things.


I think Tim Farron was absolutely right to make this pitch


for those disenfranchised moderate Labour voters


who now feel they have no-one to represent their views.


And indeed their worldview, which is essentially a liberal one.


The problem is both the Lib Dems and for


the moderate Labour Party, there is a gaping hole,


not just this tactical hole that Tim Farron was talking


about today, but a hole in terms of ideas and vision


And until the Lib Dems and the moderate Labour Party


or the moderate wing of the Labour Party


actually sort that out, what is it that they're actually


offering the voters as an alternative


One big policy that unites the centrists is staying in the EU,


The idea of the Lib Dems concentrating on staying part of the


EU is popular with about one in ten of the electorate


and about a quarter of their current supporters.


That is enough to put it at the top of the list of priorities.


But it is by no means overwhelmingly the case


thinks yes, that is what they should be doing.


These are not easy political times for any leader,


we are in a state of realignment and flux.


Tim Farron's party has arguably the most to gain.


But also perhaps the biggest challenge.


Joining me now in the studio is former policy advisor


to the Blair and Brown governments, Patrick Diamond, who is now based


And senior editor of The Economist Anne McElvoy.


Patrick, you are a Labour person. You would not vote Lib Dem even


though you're quite centrists. That is part of the problem in a way for


the Lib Dems, you are still tribally tied to Labour. Of course the Lib


Dems are tied to liberalism which has problems in the world today, not


least failing to react to the economic crisis of 2008. And also


Liberal politics is in crisis, people are dissatisfied with the


state of democracy. That is one issue. In addition the Lib Dems are


associated with the period of coalition government. They relied on


some historic promises like tuition fees. So now the position is


weakened. Taking the bigger picture, 45% of people say they are centrist,


the Lib Dems have eight, the two big parties, the Tories still jostling


for position, is happening? Most people would identify as centrists


but they mean many things by that. Then you have a fragmentation on the


left, the Corbin Labour Party, moving further to the left than in


living memory. So new Labour is ill-defined and on the right you can


see the potential, Theresa May trying to glue together the right of


her party and more progressive, liberal part of the party. George


Osborne went out and used the word liberal as much as the word


Conservative. That is where the fight is that hole in the middle and


perhaps the Liberal Democrats are too associated with recently being


in government and suffering that backwash. They have lost a lot of


body mass. Patrick, it was the financial crash, that funded to the


system and the people in the middle, it is also the right of the Labour


Party, the leadership election last year, Yvette Cooper and Andy Burnham


did not quite have a convincing story. There is a crisis of ideas


and it feels as if the whole of the centre-left does not have a story


about Word wants to take the economy or politics. That is the real


vacuum. You can talk about leadership, the structure of


political parties, but also ideas. And the financial crash was so


tumultuous, it shook up the liberal capitalist market order and the


centrists were saying we just need to tweak this. We did not need


tweaks but radicalism, the bankers to be brought to heel. And the


Liberals seem too cautious. When we look at this crisis of liberalism,


we are in danger of presenting the kind of SA as to what is wrong. If


you look across Europe, in some places you get the left coming in,


in Spain for example, but also in many places the response is to go to


the right. Saint liberalism does not have a narrative, centrist parties


have often just said come with me, trust me. We will be able to answer


difficult questions by our disposition. Tony Blair said, I have


the answer to everything. It was so vague, the third way, basically it


is saying trust me because the Liberals have the better answers


overall. That is the confidence that is now lacking. You said they do not


have a good story and they do not have a charismatic leader, a person


who sounds like they have got a grip. I'm a bit worried when


everyone says, almost as if listening to some people in your


film, if you have a policy forum that it would emerge, a genie


emerging from a body to lead. -- from a bottle. Tony Blair to evoke


him, as a charismatic leader, if you lead they will follow. He was


trusted even in difficult times. Then Christian democracy follows, if


you have a Tony Blair then new Labour follows but for the Liberals,


I suppose you have to go to Canada and Justin Trudeau. It is


interesting, when arguably the liberal disposition could be


powerful, if you think of the questions dominating politics today,


the relationship between the individual and the state, between


central government and devolution, there are questions about future


relations with Europe and internationalism. These are


questions where liberals should have some things to say. So I do not


think it has run aground and is no longer relevant, but it is


struggling I think in the UK context to apply its values and connect with


people politically. Certainly around the world, and Justin Trudeau is a


good example, that charismatic leader, they are there. But we are


living through circumstances in which the extremes, but populist


left and right, seem to be gaining political ascendancy. Thank you very


much. If you like to think that modern art


is a lot of hot air, you'll like the new work


by the wunderkind British artist We're not talking a duct


for a new shower stall here, this is a shimmering aluminium tower


50 metres high, and it's You can admire it on the Greenwich


Peninsula not far from the O2. Our man Stephen Smith


went to see it. It's more like One Flew Over The


Cuckoo's Nest. It feels amazing, it's such


a sort of huge thing. It has fire escapes inside,


it has chimneys inside, it has flues inside,


it has gantry cranes. And there are all these fire


exits, all these things So it really is an


architectural response. And am I right in saying this


might be a door here? Yeah, this will be the way that


you access the towers if any of the flues need servicing


or the lights need changing. This sort of strange triangular


door that the workers Or Spider-Man could live


here, one of the other. Until now, your best


chance of seeing the work of Conrad Shawcross


was at an art gallery. Where his chunky, kinetic pieces


have a pleasing heft and twang. For his next trick, Shawcross


was invited to design a chimney for an industrial plant supplying


hot water to 15,000 homes here. I was approached a few years ago


and I entered into a competition, so I was competing


against other artists. This was such a different thing


for me and I kind of almost wrote this e-mail saying, I'm sorry,


I cant come up with an idea, Then I was like, no,


I've got to try and do this. This is a way I can really


prove my mettle, to see if I can It was all actually done


with pieces of paper. So it was actually quite simple,


just placing a piece of spare paper and creating in a very analog way


a kind of sculpted surface. One of the things in the brief


that they talked about was trying to transform this flue


into something else. So there was this sort of element


of disguise or cloaking, this idea of something pretending


to be something else. It took me down the road


of camouflage and the way things But then that took me down looking


at dazzle camouflage in the First World War


and camouflage in general. Then into things like


Cubism and David Bamberg. The gasometer that is just behind


us, the interference pattern at the front and back,


trying to create a skin that would somehow make it more


arresting, but yet disappear. I imagine there's always a slightly


heart in mouth moment when, as the architect,


you show your plans to the guys There was a lot of stuff that didn't


make a lot of sense to them. And there were a lot of meetings


with just sort of 20 blue-collar guys just sitting round a table


with me trying to explain this sort of optic effect to people


and how important it was. Did you hear what


they were muttering? There must've some people who didn't


get it, but hopefully now I don't know whether you would


consider this public art, but it's come in for a bit


of a bashing recently. I don't describe


this as an artwork. I think it's an architectural


response. I think public art is a very


difficult thing to get right. You do have to swallow your ego


a bit and really respond to both space, concept, history,


and all of those things. This will look really powerful


when someone is doing the washing up each night,


they will see the sun set behind it. And you'll get this very


interesting, alive kind of effect, where you just move your head


slightly from side to side and it creates all these different


sort of patterns. Have you tested it, so it


won't set cars alight? The panels are all completely flat,


so there's no kind of concave So we haven't looked into that,


but it doesn't seem to be an issue because there


is no lens effect. So we have your word,


really, don't we? He's used to people seeing


his work in galleries, but now you can clock it


from the Blackwall Tunnel approach. It's out of the frying pan


into the fire for Shawcross as his chimney puts its mark


on the skyline of the big smoke. All over the world, sober media


outlets have been pondering today on how to justify their coverage


of the break-up of Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt by trying to find some


serious theme to connect to it. I'm not going to deny, we've had


that discussion ourselves. But we did find this


particularly moving. Angelina Jolie speaking


about her marriage in November on NBC's Today show,


after the release of the movie, In the Sea, which she wrote,


directed and starred in along It's about a disintegrating


marriage. Well, I think, one, I'm counting


on the audience to know that if it was close to us at all,


we could never make this film. It's because we're actually


very, very stable. I think we have more


moments where I say, Just know what you're good at,


know what you're not. So yeah, I do have my like, no,


no, I'm going to get


In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Evan Davis. When will the Syrian war end? What next for the Liberal Democrats? Plus a look at Hungary and migrants, shadow cabinet elections and the Optic Cloak.

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