22/09/2016 Newsnight


22/09/2016

Riots in the US after the police kill a black man. Inside besieged Aleppo. Garden Bridge faces setback. The political lessons of papal elections. With James O'Brien.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 22/09/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Rioting on the streets of America after yet another killing

:00:00.:00:07.

of an African-American by a police officer.

:00:08.:00:12.

The State of Emergency in North Carolina may be lifted

:00:13.:00:15.

soon, but the racial divide in America seems as

:00:16.:00:17.

The grievance in their mind is the animus, the anger.

:00:18.:00:23.

They hate white people because the white people are

:00:24.:00:26.

We'll ask if the current violence comes at a uniquely

:00:27.:00:30.

Also tonight - plans for a Garden Bridge in London hit

:00:31.:00:37.

another setback, as the Mayor orders a value for money inquiry.

:00:38.:00:40.

I'm delighted Margaret Hodge is going to take a look at this,

:00:41.:00:44.

because she knows, I think she can smell a dud project

:00:45.:00:47.

I think she's going to find this one is a real dud.

:00:48.:00:52.

We'll ask Margaret Hodge whether her report could spell

:00:53.:00:54.

And - what can papal elections tell us about the dirty world

:00:55.:01:00.

Author Robert Harris pulls back the curtain.

:01:01.:01:09.

Conclaves are short, any divisions are kept

:01:10.:01:12.

behind closed doors, and when the winning

:01:13.:01:16.

candidate emerges, the church unites around him.

:01:17.:01:18.

Secular politics has a lot to learn from conclaves.

:01:19.:01:34.

Three black men have been shot dead by police

:01:35.:01:39.

In the coming hours we will find out whether the scene of the latest,

:01:40.:01:44.

the North Carolina city of Charlotte where Keith Lamont Scott

:01:45.:01:46.

was shot on Tuesday, will face its third

:01:47.:01:48.

With the national guard already in place and Donald Trump apparently

:01:49.:01:54.

appealing for African-American votes because, and I quote,

:01:55.:01:59.

"they have nothing to lose", it's clear that racial tensions are once

:02:00.:02:02.

again centre stage in American politics.

:02:03.:02:06.

One of the main demands of the protesters is that the police

:02:07.:02:11.

video of the incident be released, but today

:02:12.:02:13.

the Charlotte Chief of Police told a press conference that they didn't

:02:14.:02:16.

The video does not give me absolute, definitive visual evidence that...

:02:17.:02:27.

That would confirm that a person is pointing a gun.

:02:28.:02:33.

I did not see that in the videos that I've reviewed.

:02:34.:02:38.

What I can tell you, though, is when taken in the totality

:02:39.:02:40.

of all the other evidence, it supports what we've heard

:02:41.:02:44.

in the version of the truth that we gave about the circumstances

:02:45.:02:47.

that happened, that led to the death of Mr Scott.

:02:48.:02:50.

Let's cross over to Charlotte and talk to the BBC's correspondent

:02:51.:02:55.

Are the authorities braced for more violence tonight? They are, and

:02:56.:03:09.

that's why several hundred members of the National Guard have been

:03:10.:03:13.

deployed to the streets of Charlotte. Their primary role is to

:03:14.:03:18.

look after property, to look after buildings, so the police don't have

:03:19.:03:22.

to do that, so the police can go out there and make arrests and do their

:03:23.:03:27.

normal policing duties. That said, there is still a lot of tension in

:03:28.:03:32.

this city. The pressure group that campaigns on behalf of black people

:03:33.:03:37.

says that effectively putting the National Guard on the streets

:03:38.:03:41.

militarise is the situation and couldn't raise tensions rather than

:03:42.:03:44.

throw at them. What we are expecting in the next few minutes at police

:03:45.:03:48.

headquarters is the family may get to see, the Scott family may get to

:03:49.:03:55.

see that controversial police cam video shot on Tuesday was Keith

:03:56.:04:02.

Lamont Scott was being shot by the police. The police are going to see

:04:03.:04:06.

it, and what their verdict is on a video, I think, will be crucial to

:04:07.:04:11.

the atmosphere in this city. Gary O'Donoghue, many thanks indeed. The

:04:12.:04:17.

bigger picture is worth a glance at now.

:04:18.:04:22.

Just days ahead of the first Presidential debate.

:04:23.:04:24.

The political pantechnicon that is Donald Trump's Presidential

:04:25.:04:26.

campaign rumbled into and out of Toledo, Ohio this week

:04:27.:04:28.

as the country reacted to not just the racially charged rioting

:04:29.:04:31.

in Carolina but also, of course, the terrorist attacks

:04:32.:04:33.

Emily Maitlis has been keeping tabs on this most controversial

:04:34.:04:42.

of candidates, and wondering whether a year of remarkable

:04:43.:04:44.

reverses for the political status quo could yet witness an even bigger

:04:45.:04:48.

upset, and she's in Toledo for us tonight.

:04:49.:04:55.

I think that is right. Whether you are talking about rioting on the

:04:56.:05:02.

streets or the shooting dead of black men by police in Carolina, as

:05:03.:05:06.

you have just heard about, or if it is those thwarted terror attacks in

:05:07.:05:11.

New York and New Jersey, Americans right now waking up to a sense of

:05:12.:05:16.

something deeply unsettling in the state of their country. Clearly both

:05:17.:05:20.

candidates are offering very differing political solutions, but

:05:21.:05:24.

when an electorate keeps hearing about a country that is polarised,

:05:25.:05:28.

that is divided, that is unjust and doesn't seem to be getting any

:05:29.:05:30.

better, perhaps it is for them to start looking to

:05:31.:06:03.

that candidate of change, the candidate that talks about fixing

:06:04.:06:06.

things, fixing things we know is a very Donald Trump sort of phrase. We

:06:07.:06:08.

are in Toledo, Ohio, a crucial swing state Trump is going all out to win.

:06:09.:06:11.

He has been here many more times than Hillary Clinton and ahead of

:06:12.:06:13.

that first critical presidential debate, the first time Donald Trump

:06:14.:06:16.

and Hillary Clinton will sit on the same stage together, going

:06:17.:06:18.

head-to-head, we spoke to a Republican strategist called in by

:06:19.:06:20.

team Brexit to give them a little advice ahead of their own televised

:06:21.:06:21.

debates. Have a look. And we will make

:06:22.:06:22.

America great again! Take back control of this country

:06:23.:06:24.

and our democracy... And we will make

:06:25.:06:26.

America great again! If we vote to Leave,

:06:27.:06:28.

we take back control. And yes, we will make

:06:29.:06:30.

America great again! The echo of insurgency both sides

:06:31.:06:32.

of the Atlantic Ocean... And turn the page to a bright

:06:33.:06:34.

and shining future. 2016, it once seemed, would be

:06:35.:06:39.

the year things almost happened - the rising of populist movements

:06:40.:06:44.

around the world, but after the Brexit vote,

:06:45.:06:49.

suddenly we realised that voice didn't just have the power

:06:50.:06:54.

to unsettle but to upend. It was a moment many on this side

:06:55.:06:56.

of the ocean fully woke up to Trump. I certainly think that the Brexit

:06:57.:07:00.

has energised a lot of voters I think for folks who didn't think,

:07:01.:07:03.

who don't think that Donald Trump can win, they now believe that

:07:04.:07:08.

Donald Trump can win. I also think that it has invigorated

:07:09.:07:13.

the hope of folks who think we can't Brett O'Donnell, a Republican

:07:14.:07:17.

strategist who's advised former presidential candidate Mitt Romney,

:07:18.:07:28.

was called in by the Leave EU team to help them

:07:29.:07:31.

prepare for the debates. We were very careful about trying

:07:32.:07:33.

to characterise this is taking back control of your country,

:07:34.:07:41.

as opposed to losing And being hopeful about your

:07:42.:07:43.

country, as opposed It's about using the phrase "Take

:07:44.:07:47.

back control of our NHS", "Take back control of our school

:07:48.:07:58.

system", "Take back control of our trade", "Take back control

:07:59.:08:00.

of our borders", "Take back control The Brexit Trump analogy

:08:01.:08:03.

is far from perfect, but they each speak to a sense

:08:04.:08:06.

of reclaiming, and that, I think, is key -

:08:07.:08:09.

whether it's about your borders, or your former greatness

:08:10.:08:11.

as a country - it appeals to a people who feel that something

:08:12.:08:15.

slipped out of their grasp, And put like that, it no longer

:08:16.:08:18.

sounds like protest Toledo, Ohio is a midwest town

:08:19.:08:22.

with manufacturing in its soul. Glassware and car parts,

:08:23.:08:33.

gasworks and tyres, but it's a town that's slumped, as

:08:34.:08:36.

manufacturing headed east. An economy in decline has brought

:08:37.:08:40.

many here a rally for Trump. I will not tolerate anyone violating

:08:41.:08:44.

Mr Trump's right to speak here today, or your right

:08:45.:08:48.

to assemble and to listen Do not physically

:08:49.:08:50.

engage the protesters. They embrace their new-found

:08:51.:08:56.

identity as "deplorables", after Hillary's comments

:08:57.:08:58.

about racism and xenophobia I think it's disgusting that

:08:59.:09:00.

a presidential nominee could call a large segment of our

:09:01.:09:09.

population deplorables. If she would win, she would be

:09:10.:09:10.

president of everybody. And as we move through the queue,

:09:11.:09:15.

I'm curious to know if the same factors that drove Brexit,

:09:16.:09:18.

are driving Trump. The dilution of the American culture

:09:19.:09:25.

is deteriorating the structure, In Europe, you guys have a big

:09:26.:09:27.

problem, because there's no borders. I think it's sad that these illegal

:09:28.:09:32.

immigrants get all this freedom and we have veterans

:09:33.:09:35.

who are homeless, who can't afford health care, who have to wait

:09:36.:09:40.

months on top of months. They've been waiting

:09:41.:09:43.

since 9 this morning. Donald Trump finally

:09:44.:09:46.

arrives here at 2.30. This is a movement, and we're

:09:47.:09:50.

taking our country back for the people,

:09:51.:09:55.

we're taking it back. "We're taking our country back,

:09:56.:09:59.

we're taking it back". That kind of easy slogan has proved

:10:00.:10:02.

critical to his messaging during this campaign,

:10:03.:10:06.

whether it means jobs, It's about drilling a message home

:10:07.:10:09.

time and time again. He tells his fans, they tell others,

:10:10.:10:17.

a kind of verbal pyramid selling which has proved

:10:18.:10:20.

so utterly effective. In downtown Toledo,

:10:21.:10:24.

I meet Mike and Ed - I don't think that she is saying

:10:25.:10:26.

anything, what she is going What's he going to do to make

:10:27.:10:31.

America great again? But they agree on one thing,

:10:32.:10:39.

that the Democrats lack It has been harder for her to reduce

:10:40.:10:42.

her message to something that connects every day

:10:43.:10:49.

with the marketplace. What I might call

:10:50.:10:54.

kitchen table life. People are sitting around,

:10:55.:10:55.

not thinking about politicians They're thinking, how

:10:56.:10:57.

can I pay my bills? My car needs a muffler,

:10:58.:11:01.

my rent is due. They are not thinking

:11:02.:11:04.

about politicians and what it means. Until politics starts

:11:05.:11:10.

looking like this... The shooting of yet another black

:11:11.:11:14.

man by police has hit a deep nerve in America,

:11:15.:11:17.

and brought protests out The black vote is overwhelmingly

:11:18.:11:19.

Democrat, but the protest may harden parts of the white vote behind

:11:20.:11:29.

Trump, and polarised America may well play

:11:30.:11:32.

into his narrative. An America that's divided,

:11:33.:11:35.

an America that's uneasy, an America that is, he'll them,

:11:36.:11:39.

broken, is an America Let's pick up where Emily

:11:40.:11:41.

left off in her piece - the protests over the shooting dead

:11:42.:11:50.

of a black man by police A little earlier I spoke

:11:51.:11:53.

to North Carolina congressman His district covers

:11:54.:11:58.

the City of Charlotte. I began by asking him

:11:59.:12:02.

about the prospect of a third night Well, my hope is that

:12:03.:12:05.

calm will prevail. Frankly we need the spirit

:12:06.:12:11.

of Martin Luther King, the great statesman who, yes,

:12:12.:12:16.

he went to the streets We need the spirit of

:12:17.:12:19.

the leaders to come out today, from President Obama,

:12:20.:12:25.

from the Attorney General, from pastors, from lay people,

:12:26.:12:29.

to go to the streets, African-American leaders,

:12:30.:12:32.

and ask for calm and ask for discipline in what they want,

:12:33.:12:35.

to share their grievances The chief grievance

:12:36.:12:38.

of the protesters? It began long before two nights ago

:12:39.:12:43.

when there was a shooting. I think that was the effect,

:12:44.:12:52.

the culmination, frankly, 1965, President Johnson,

:12:53.:12:54.

with good intentions, launched the Great Society,

:12:55.:13:01.

and the impact of that has frankly There are African-American people

:13:02.:13:04.

today who are more removed from our economy

:13:05.:13:11.

than any other time. In fact, sadly, as a result

:13:12.:13:14.

of the policies that the president, and I say with good intentions,

:13:15.:13:18.

followed the last eight years, that the demographic group that has

:13:19.:13:20.

been hurt the worse, are the low income, minority people,

:13:21.:13:25.

they have grown zero in our economy. With respect, congressman,

:13:26.:13:32.

I don't think the people on the streets last night

:13:33.:13:37.

and the night before were protesting against Lyndon B Johnson's almost

:13:38.:13:39.

half a century old policies. What is their grievance

:13:40.:13:42.

in their mind? The grievance in their mind

:13:43.:13:47.

is the animus, the anger. They hate white people because white

:13:48.:13:52.

people are successful We have spent trillions

:13:53.:13:55.

of dollars on welfare, but we put people in bondage,

:13:56.:14:00.

so that they can't be all that America is a country of opportunity

:14:01.:14:03.

and freedom and liberty. It didn't become that way

:14:04.:14:08.

because of the great government who provided everything

:14:09.:14:11.

for everyone. No, the destiny of America,

:14:12.:14:14.

the freedom to come to this country, why they're still coming

:14:15.:14:19.

to our shores is because they can take their work ethic

:14:20.:14:22.

and their hard effort, and put a cap on their risk

:14:23.:14:28.

and build out their lives. A black man gets shot

:14:29.:14:31.

by a black police officer and the people protest

:14:32.:14:35.

because they hate white people? Yeah, that's what

:14:36.:14:37.

they're saying on TV. That was the brother

:14:38.:14:38.

of the man who got shot. He said in a very vulgar way,

:14:39.:14:42.

he hated all white people. There's nothing racial

:14:43.:14:45.

about what happened. You look at the educational system,

:14:46.:14:48.

70% of all African-American children This is tragic, and it's

:14:49.:15:01.

a breakdown in our society. The perception that the African

:15:02.:15:05.

Americans expect a different degree of treatment from American police

:15:06.:15:07.

isn't part of this at all? Do you think our African-American

:15:08.:15:10.

chief of police or an African American officer wants to degrade

:15:11.:15:20.

somebody from his own race? I ride shotgun with our police,

:15:21.:15:22.

from 10pm to 6am, I've done These people are valiant,

:15:23.:15:29.

courageous people. There's issues on the streets every

:15:30.:15:32.

night. They are courageous people, our law

:15:33.:15:37.

enforcement, and I value them. People are instigators,

:15:38.:15:42.

who incite these riots. That's why I'm calling

:15:43.:15:45.

for the spirit of Martin Luther King to return, to not allow

:15:46.:15:48.

the agitators to come in and exploit these situations,

:15:49.:15:52.

and that's what they're doing. Doctor King, of course,

:15:53.:16:00.

spoke of the need of love to be I sense from some of your comments

:16:01.:16:03.

you're probably also Is it somehow fighting hate

:16:04.:16:07.

with love to employ some of the rhetoric he employs,

:16:08.:16:12.

with regards to Mexico of the rhetoric he employs,

:16:13.:16:19.

with regards to Mexicans being rapists and murderers,

:16:20.:16:21.

or the birth story? You have come out and in

:16:22.:16:23.

support of Donald Trump. You cite the memory of Dr King,

:16:24.:16:28.

and I can't quite square I missed your last comment,

:16:29.:16:31.

did you say nobody is perfect? But the policies of the last 50

:16:32.:16:42.

years have enslaved these I'm looking ahead

:16:43.:16:44.

to the next five now. I just wonder how you square

:16:45.:16:50.

admiration for Donald Trump, who has cast aspersions

:16:51.:16:52.

upon the very circumstances of an African-American's birth,

:16:53.:16:54.

while also calling for the spirit of Dr King to be brought to bear,

:16:55.:16:58.

upon the current violence. What I'm for is freedom

:16:59.:17:04.

and opportunity and liberty, and that's what our Republican House

:17:05.:17:06.

members stand for. To go to a better way,

:17:07.:17:12.

you'll understand what we're about. We are about our agenda,

:17:13.:17:15.

an agenda for creating greater We want Donald Trump to embrace us,

:17:16.:17:17.

and we believe he will Congressmen Robert Pittenger,

:17:18.:17:22.

thank you very much indeed. Joining me now from New York

:17:23.:17:27.

is The Daily Beast's Let's begin, it's hard to know where

:17:28.:17:42.

to begin... Let's begin with the claim there was no racial element to

:17:43.:17:47.

what is happening in Charlotte at the moment because the chief of

:17:48.:17:50.

police is African-American and the officer who fired the fatal shot is

:17:51.:17:55.

also African-American, BoGo this isn't an issue of race.

:17:56.:17:59.

I think it's a misnomer first of all to believe that an officer of the

:18:00.:18:01.

law who happens to be African-American does not also

:18:02.:18:06.

harbour some level of implicit, if not explicit bias against other

:18:07.:18:10.

Americans, whether or not they are white or not white,

:18:11.:18:13.

African-American, Hispanic or otherwise. So that has been proven

:18:14.:18:18.

to be true in test after test. So for many African Americans,

:18:19.:18:21.

specifically living in Charlotte, this is a racial issue. If you look

:18:22.:18:26.

at Charlotte and its fabric, its economic and racial disparities and

:18:27.:18:32.

disparities among racial intolerance lines it's a very fragile fabric

:18:33.:18:35.

that has existed over these last several decades. If you look at what

:18:36.:18:40.

happened last evening, yes, there was a flash point of an --

:18:41.:18:44.

African-American man who was disabled with the community says was

:18:45.:18:49.

unarmed, the police officers say he was armed, who was shot as he waited

:18:50.:18:53.

for his trial to get off a school bus. That was not necessarily the

:18:54.:18:59.

cause of the uprising. It was simply the flash point. The cause is the

:19:00.:19:03.

decades upon decades of economic and racial inequality in and around

:19:04.:19:08.

Charlotte and in and around other US American cities.

:19:09.:19:11.

It's not simply the case that, as the congressman suggested, they hate

:19:12.:19:16.

all white people? No, not at all. What people hate is

:19:17.:19:20.

the injustice they see reflected in this system. If I'm looking at the

:19:21.:19:27.

cultural ins of the congressman IC uprising in the streets and

:19:28.:19:30.

lawlessness that ought to be checked and a system that is fair to me and

:19:31.:19:33.

people like me. I don't see the system from the other side from

:19:34.:19:36.

black and brown people who happen to live in this country who are apart

:19:37.:19:41.

on the other side of the occasion, who don't carry the same level of

:19:42.:19:45.

privilege of not being able to see all being affected by implicit bias.

:19:46.:19:50.

So I think there are cultural lenses at play here. The congressman sees

:19:51.:19:53.

his version of truth and then the young people on the ground see their

:19:54.:19:57.

day-to-day Myers and their truth and both of them have two square and

:19:58.:20:01.

that is where the divide lies. What do you feel, Goldie Taylor, new

:20:02.:20:05.

here and elected politician like that described African-American

:20:06.:20:09.

people as not liking white people because white people are successful

:20:10.:20:12.

and black people are not? I will put him up against every

:20:13.:20:16.

black doctor and lawyer that I know in this country, company CEO, US

:20:17.:20:21.

congressmen and women. I will put him up against every heart surgeon,

:20:22.:20:27.

every black heart surgeon I know, every schoolteacher, every police

:20:28.:20:33.

officer and then talk about what success means in the

:20:34.:20:36.

African-American community., people with college degrees in the African

:20:37.:20:41.

American community than at any time in history and employment Dummigan

:20:42.:20:46.

employment rates have halved under Obama. Has never been a better time

:20:47.:20:50.

for African-Americans in this country. To say it is perfect be

:20:51.:20:55.

wrong, but to say we are in a time that is as bad as Jim Crow that

:20:56.:20:59.

existed over 50 years ago, to say it is as bad as when the EPM system

:21:00.:21:07.

existed in this country, or as bad as slavery, or the vicious maligning

:21:08.:21:11.

of human rights in this country we are simply not therefore stop this

:21:12.:21:14.

country has made a hell of a lot of progress.

:21:15.:21:16.

You mentioned President Obama and the prospect of President Trump is

:21:17.:21:20.

Hoving interview. Is this not helping him if he is the candidate

:21:21.:21:24.

of change portraying chaos, then seems like the ones we've seen in

:21:25.:21:28.

Charlotte somehow create the idea there is really something that needs

:21:29.:21:30.

to be fixed? That's the fear, if you watch these

:21:31.:21:37.

kinds of uprisings, if you watch the terrorist attacks in New York

:21:38.:21:41.

recently when you had a young man planting pressure cooker bombs

:21:42.:21:45.

around the city, some would say that that would indeed help the Trump

:21:46.:21:49.

candidacy if you live in that kind of fear. But there are others on the

:21:50.:21:53.

other hand who say Trump is not the answer to those kinds of dilemmas,

:21:54.:21:56.

that we need a more comprehensive approach to immigration, a more

:21:57.:22:00.

comprehensive approach to unemployment, a more comprehensive

:22:01.:22:03.

approach to fixing public education. Trump doesn't give policies, he

:22:04.:22:08.

gives, I will fix it and I'm the only one. America is looking for

:22:09.:22:12.

change but I think it's difficult, quite frankly, to articulate a

:22:13.:22:16.

comprehensive policy that we need. Goldie Taylor, thank you for your

:22:17.:22:18.

time tonight. Thank you. The precarious ceasefire

:22:19.:22:23.

in the Syrian civil war finally collapsed overnight as rebel-held

:22:24.:22:28.

areas of the already devastated city of Aleppo came under

:22:29.:22:30.

heavy aerial bombardment. Reports out of the city suggest that

:22:31.:22:32.

incendiary bombs were dropped on the Bustan al-Qasr district,

:22:33.:22:36.

killing at least 13 people, Tonight the Syrian army announced

:22:37.:22:38.

the start of a new military offensive in the city,

:22:39.:22:44.

urging civilians to avoid areas Let's cross to Aleppo now and speak

:22:45.:22:46.

to Ismail Alabdullah. He works for the White Helmets,

:22:47.:22:54.

a group of volunteer rescue workers who try to help victims

:22:55.:22:57.

of the violence. If the picture seems dark, that's

:22:58.:23:08.

because there is currently no electricity in his building tonight.

:23:09.:23:15.

Ismail, can I begin by asking what you have been doing today?

:23:16.:23:23.

Actually, today, we responded to many sites of bombing, lots of

:23:24.:23:29.

people are under the rubble in many neighbourhoods. Last night it was

:23:30.:23:34.

like hell in a Aleppo city and all of the neighbourhoods in Bustan

:23:35.:23:47.

al-Qasr. We worked more than 24 hours to pull bodies from the

:23:48.:23:51.

rubble. Since the ceasefire ended at seven o'clock two days ago many

:23:52.:24:00.

people died almost 30 people on that night in just four hours. All of

:24:01.:24:06.

died. Yesterday there were air strikes. Bombs killed 13 people,

:24:07.:24:14.

like you said. Before the ceasefire ended everything was OK and people

:24:15.:24:23.

were happy, walking on the streets, celebrating Eid and everything has

:24:24.:24:30.

changed. The situation has become heavy bombing. The aid situation

:24:31.:24:37.

remains precarious. Are any supplies reaching the city? Can I ask what

:24:38.:24:45.

you have eaten today? Today I just have eaten some rice

:24:46.:24:51.

from my friend. The other day I was looking for something to eat. I'm

:24:52.:24:57.

not afraid for myself. I'm scared about the people, about the kids,

:24:58.:25:01.

about the many people around Aleppo city. We have not received any aid

:25:02.:25:15.

for two months, medical care, we are suffering from a lack of medical

:25:16.:25:19.

supplies. We don't have enough doctors. Even electricity and the

:25:20.:25:25.

electricity went off since almost three months. We have just

:25:26.:25:29.

generators working for the hospitals. And in a few days we will

:25:30.:25:36.

run out of everything. Even for water, we don't have drinking water.

:25:37.:25:42.

We have just water from the well is that cannot be drinkable. The

:25:43.:25:48.

situation has become worse and worse and worse. I think the line has

:25:49.:25:56.

defeated us, and so indeed has the clock. Ismail alla Abdullah, thank

:25:57.:25:59.

you for your time this evening. Modern politicians seem increasingly

:26:00.:26:02.

obsessed with their legacy but it's fair to say that one of the biggest

:26:03.:26:04.

bequests of Boris Johnson's London mayoralty is looking

:26:05.:26:08.

decidedly troubled. His successor Sadiq Khan today

:26:09.:26:09.

announced a comprehensive review of the so-called Garden Bridge

:26:10.:26:11.

and appointed the former chair of the Commons

:26:12.:26:13.

Public Accounts Committee, In a moment she'll tell us how

:26:14.:26:15.

she plans to establish whether the ?60 million already

:26:16.:26:19.

spent represents value for money for taxpayers

:26:20.:26:27.

and whether transparency standards have been met

:26:28.:26:30.

by the public bodies involved. But first, a report

:26:31.:26:32.

from Newsnight's Hannah Barnes. At a cost of ?185 million

:26:33.:26:42.

and now running a year Garden Bridge has barely been out

:26:43.:26:45.

of the headlines in recent months. The choice of Dame Margaret Hodge

:26:46.:26:55.

lead a review into how the Garden Bridge has

:26:56.:26:57.

been handled so far is an interesting one.

:26:58.:26:59.

As chair of the Commons Public Accounts Committee,

:27:00.:27:02.

Hodge was famous for her fearless questioning and not shying away from

:27:03.:27:05.

holding the most powerful and influential players in industry and

:27:06.:27:08.

You're a company that says you do no evil,

:27:09.:27:11.

Dame Margaret will look at whether the

:27:12.:27:20.

Garden Bridge has achieved value for money from the taxpayers'

:27:21.:27:22.

Some say Hodge's appointment is politically

:27:23.:27:26.

motivated, but others, who are critical of

:27:27.:27:28.

the plans, welcoming the London Mayor's decision.

:27:29.:27:30.

I'm delighted Margaret Hodge is going to

:27:31.:27:34.

take a look at this, because she knows, I think

:27:35.:27:36.

she can smell a dud project when she sees one.

:27:37.:27:39.

I think she's going to find this one is a real dud.

:27:40.:27:43.

If this was built entirely with private money, and there was

:27:44.:27:48.

enough private money to ensure it wasn't a liability on the taxpayer

:27:49.:27:53.

in future, I's still think frankly it was a waste.

:27:54.:27:56.

This is just a bad way to think of spending public money

:27:57.:27:59.

and the sooner it's scrapped, the better.

:28:00.:28:01.

Last month Newsnight revealed the funding shortfall for

:28:02.:28:03.

the project was significantly greater than the public had been led

:28:04.:28:06.

On top of the 60 million of public money pledged, the chair of the

:28:07.:28:16.

Garden Bridge Trust, Lord Davies, told us that ?69 million had been

:28:17.:28:19.

Since that appearance by Lord Davies more than a month ago, the Garden

:28:20.:28:27.

Bridge Trust doesn't appear to have raised any new private money.

:28:28.:28:29.

Indeed, just earlier this week, it told the Times newspaper that

:28:30.:28:33.

private fund-raising still stood at ?69 million.

:28:34.:28:39.

So despite the fact that those behind the Garden Bridge

:28:40.:28:41.

have made it very clear that this is now a critical

:28:42.:28:44.

time for the project, the money that they desperately need

:28:45.:28:47.

to make this project happen just isn't materialising.

:28:48.:28:49.

Letters and e-mails released this week under the

:28:50.:28:52.

Freedom of Information Act have shown that the Garden Bridge came

:28:53.:29:00.

perilously close to being pulled earlier this summer.

:29:01.:29:02.

In an e-mail on the 11th of July, a senior civil

:29:03.:29:05.

servant at the Department for Transport explicitly asked the

:29:06.:29:08.

Garden Bridge Trust whether without the government

:29:09.:29:14.

agreeing to extend a guarantee to underwrite the bridge,

:29:15.:29:16.

the trustees would be unable to continue with the project.

:29:17.:29:28.

Bee Emmott, the executive director of the garden

:29:29.:29:31.

Bridge trust replies, yes, trustees need this

:29:32.:29:33.

to demonstrate we are we are growing concern.

:29:34.:29:37.

Without the underwriting they would struggle to demonstrate

:29:38.:29:39.

Another letter has raised concerns for Will Hurst

:29:40.:29:43.

On the 11th of July the trough's German, Mervyn Davies wrote to one

:29:44.:29:55.

of the transport ministers, explaining that there were all sorts

:29:56.:29:58.

of problems with the project, that it might need to be terminated

:29:59.:30:01.

in the next few months and that they had stood

:30:02.:30:03.

Now, on the very same day it turns out the garden bridge trust

:30:04.:30:09.

was telling the Evening Standard, and therefore Londoners, that

:30:10.:30:12.

They also released a statement on their website, this

:30:13.:30:15.

is the garden bridge trust, saying construction has not been

:30:16.:30:18.

halted because construction hasn't yet started.

:30:19.:30:19.

I think the documents disclose something that's really

:30:20.:30:21.

At the same time that the Bridge Trust was writing to the Minister

:30:22.:30:25.

in the Department for Transport to say they've had to put work

:30:26.:30:28.

on hold, they were telling the London Evening Standard that

:30:29.:30:30.

everything was going absolutely swimmingly.

:30:31.:30:32.

Now you know, that's at best misleading, at worst it's

:30:33.:30:34.

A spokesperson for the Garden Bridge Trust said there is no deception,

:30:35.:30:40.

you are comparing a letter to our delivery partner,

:30:41.:30:42.

outlining funding risks where we discussed the worst-case

:30:43.:30:44.

scenarios, with a press statement that clearly talks

:30:45.:30:46.

about the operations work the team is doing to move ahead on all

:30:47.:30:49.

the planning activities required to enable construction to commence.

:30:50.:30:55.

Dame Margaret's review will cost ?25,000 and Sadiq Khan has promised

:30:56.:30:57.

It will then be in his power to decide whether the

:30:58.:31:06.

We did ask to speak to someone from the Garden Bridge Trust

:31:07.:31:16.

No matter, with me now is Dame Margaret Hodge,

:31:17.:31:22.

has been asked by the London Mayor to look into this project.

:31:23.:31:26.

Did Sadiq Khan tell you why he wanted you particular for this job?

:31:27.:31:33.

I think it's my experience over the five years of the last Parliament,

:31:34.:31:38.

when I was responsible for China Public Accounts Committee, and our

:31:39.:31:42.

job was to look at value for money for public expenditure. What I'm

:31:43.:31:46.

looking for in this project is not the project in its totality, it's

:31:47.:31:53.

the Garden Trust. If they raised money privately that is brilliant,

:31:54.:31:57.

I'm looking at the Public expenditure part of it, the ?60

:31:58.:32:01.

million promised, of which ?40 million has been spent, to see

:32:02.:32:04.

whether it is value for money, whether the procurement process was

:32:05.:32:09.

best practice and whether there was proper transparency in the decisions

:32:10.:32:13.

that were taken. Do you still fancy the job having seen that report?

:32:14.:32:18.

There we are, I will get a van load of stuff delivered tomorrow to my

:32:19.:32:21.

house, so I will have really exciting reading over the weekend. I

:32:22.:32:27.

get access to all the papers that City Hall have, so I will stop with

:32:28.:32:30.

that. There have been various reviews. I will go through that. I

:32:31.:32:35.

hope everybody will talk to me, including the Garden Trust and after

:32:36.:32:38.

I've read the papers I will have a clear review of who I have to talk

:32:39.:32:42.

to and what questions that need to ask. And you arrive at this task

:32:43.:32:49.

with your impartiality scrupulous, but you do possess teeth and they

:32:50.:32:53.

are teeth you are not afraid to bear in the chairmanship of that Public

:32:54.:32:55.

Accounts Committee. Have you been entrusted with enough power,

:32:56.:33:02.

conclusions depend on, to end this project before it's begun? I'm not

:33:03.:33:07.

going in to end this project, I am impartial. Is that on the table as a

:33:08.:33:13.

possibility, if your findings... The decision in the end is for others,

:33:14.:33:17.

not me at all. The power lies more with the Department for Transport

:33:18.:33:22.

and the male's office. That your advice could constitute a caution?

:33:23.:33:27.

Let's see. I'm trying to work out what powers you have. I've got the

:33:28.:33:32.

powers to look at everything, all the papers in City Hall. When I was

:33:33.:33:36.

doing the Public Accounts Committee, we had to sometimes fight to get

:33:37.:33:40.

access to papers. This time I'm told everything that goes into City Hall

:33:41.:33:44.

is there. I hope people will come and talk to me about it. Will you

:33:45.:33:50.

encourage them to do so? I want to clarify how as a layman howl nearly

:33:51.:33:55.

?40 million can be spent on a budget before a brick has been delayed or

:33:56.:33:59.

ground has been broken, do we know? That is the question I will have to

:34:00.:34:03.

ask. That is your starting point. Dame Margaret Hodge, thank you.

:34:04.:34:06.

A fictional account of the 72-hour long deliberations of Roman Catholic

:34:07.:34:09.

cardinals charged with electing a new Pope may not offer

:34:10.:34:14.

immediately obvious lessons for the British Labour party.

:34:15.:34:17.

But the bestselling author, and former confidante of Tony Blair,

:34:18.:34:19.

Robert Harris has extrapolated precisely that from his

:34:20.:34:21.

Papal elections are a famously secretive process with their roots

:34:22.:34:26.

in the thirteenth century culminating, of course,

:34:27.:34:28.

with the release of plumes of white smoke so we thought

:34:29.:34:31.

we'd charge Harris - once a reporter on Newsnight

:34:32.:34:39.

of course - with explaining what lessons the papal politicians

:34:40.:34:41.

might have for their secular cousins.

:34:42.:35:01.

I wanted to write a novel about the election of a Pope,

:35:02.:35:04.

not because I'm a Catholic which I'm not, but

:35:05.:35:07.

because I'm a political writer and a conclave is the oldest

:35:08.:35:09.

and most secretive electoral process on Earth.

:35:10.:35:11.

I was allowed to go behind-the-scenes of the Vatican to

:35:12.:35:13.

see the places where a conclave takes place,

:35:14.:35:19.

in the corridors and in the bedrooms of the Cardinals where they gather

:35:20.:35:22.

to discuss the candidates, in the room where the new Pope

:35:23.:35:25.

is dressed and even allowed to follow the walk he takes soon

:35:26.:35:28.

One aim of the novel was to take the reader inside

:35:29.:35:51.

Another was to see whether this 700-year-old ritual, this

:35:52.:36:01.

extraordinary coalition between the sacred and the profane still had

:36:02.:36:03.

lessons to offer modern politics, in particular in this season of

:36:04.:36:06.

It's a fairly reliable rule of recent papal elections that

:36:07.:36:19.

whoever starts as favourite ends up losing,

:36:20.:36:24.

as is often said to be the case in Tory leadership elections.

:36:25.:36:28.

The Cardinals may not know who they want to choose as Pope,

:36:29.:36:34.

but they often know who they don't want and the favourite

:36:35.:36:36.

Unless a popular incumbent is standing again which obviously

:36:37.:36:50.

is never the case with a conclave, elections are very much an

:36:51.:36:56.

opportunity for change and most of the Popes elected over

:36:57.:36:59.

the last 60 years have been, in a way, change

:37:00.:37:01.

There is a warning here for Hillary Clinton above all,

:37:02.:37:12.

because if even the elderly Cardinals

:37:13.:37:18.

of the conclave want to see a change, how much more

:37:19.:37:21.

so do millions of voters in the United States?

:37:22.:37:25.

When the cardinals gather in the Sistine

:37:26.:37:29.

Chapel, the first thing they do is pray that the holy spirit will come

:37:30.:37:32.

among them and guide them to a candidate.

:37:33.:37:34.

And once one of their number begins to attract a lot of

:37:35.:37:39.

votes, inevitably they have the aura of being God's chosen.

:37:40.:37:42.

What in a secular election a psephologist

:37:43.:37:43.

Whether or not you believe that Jeremy Corbyn is the second

:37:44.:37:50.

coming, it was certainly wise of his supporters to colonise that

:37:51.:37:54.

particular word and his opponents have been on the defensive ever

:37:55.:37:57.

Cardinals in a conclave are traditionally supposed to insist

:37:58.:38:09.

that they have no desire to become Pope.

:38:10.:38:17.

Nevertheless, those popes who are most successful, John XXIII,

:38:18.:38:20.

John Paul II and the present Pope seemed to come almost

:38:21.:38:23.

from the start, project an aura of confidence.

:38:24.:38:25.

It's important to appear at ease in the role and it's also

:38:26.:38:28.

Any divisions are kept behind closed doors.

:38:29.:38:38.

And when the winning candidate emerges, the church

:38:39.:38:40.

Secular politics has a lot to learn from conclaves.

:38:41.:38:52.

Conclave, from the Latin conclavis - with a key.

:38:53.:38:58.

Since the 13th century this was how the church had

:38:59.:39:01.

ensured its Cardinals would come to a decision.

:39:02.:39:05.

They would not be released from the chapel except for

:39:06.:39:07.

meals and to sleep until they had chosen a Pope.

:39:08.:39:10.

Finally the cardinal electors were alone.

:39:11.:39:21.

The nation was rocked again today with further news of defections

:39:22.:39:26.

from the Great British Bake Off team, as the show makes its

:39:27.:39:30.

This morning we learned that Mary Berry will not be making

:39:31.:39:39.

leaving Paul Hollywood as the only on-screen talent left.

:39:40.:39:42.

If you're a fan of the show, though, don't worry.

:39:43.:39:44.

We've got hold of a sneak preview of how the new show might look.

:39:45.:39:47.

What we want to do is take it back to basics a little bit.

:39:48.:39:53.

But that doesn't mean that the judging's

:39:54.:39:54.

We've never done anything like this on Bake Off

:39:55.:40:01.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS