Browse content similar to 26/09/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
In this party, you no longer have to whisper its name, it's called | :00:08. | :00:11. | |
On stage in Liverpool, politics on the left | :00:12. | :00:17. | |
After years of running from it, Labour is now embracing it. | :00:18. | :00:23. | |
One of the boldest political experiments of the age. | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
The Shadow Chancellor is here to tell us what the S | :00:29. | :00:30. | |
And is this a party that can work together, or two | :00:31. | :00:38. | |
I hope that he can put together a Shadow Cabinet of all the talents, | :00:39. | :00:46. | |
but that does require Jeremy and his newly re-endorsed | :00:47. | :00:48. | |
mandate to reach out to the Parliamentary Labour | :00:49. | :00:50. | |
Party and say, I do want to work together. | :00:51. | :00:56. | |
And Team Sky defends Sir Bradley Wiggins' use of steroids | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
We can still trust Sky, we can trust in their achievements? | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
100%, you can trust in Sky, absolutely, 100%. | :01:05. | :01:06. | |
That's the very essence of why we created this team in the first | :01:07. | :01:12. | |
We're here, as the Labour Party is here, for its annual conference. | :01:13. | :01:30. | |
A changing political order is underway, entrenching. | :01:31. | :01:32. | |
For a taste of the different style, here is the picture | :01:33. | :01:35. | |
of Jeremy Corbyn, who abolished the post of shadow mental | :01:36. | :01:38. | |
health minister, here offering support to the campaign | :01:39. | :01:40. | |
Campaigning for himself to do something is a novel approach | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
The other strange moment was around the speech | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
of shadow defence secretary Clive Lewis. | :01:50. | :01:52. | |
Here is the footage of him, shot by ITN, just before | :01:53. | :01:55. | |
giving his speech, apparently being told by email | :01:56. | :01:57. | |
The autocue was being altered on his behalf. | :01:58. | :02:03. | |
His compromising tone on perhaps keeping Trident, | :02:04. | :02:04. | |
toned down to leave open the option of dumping it. | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
Some of us who live by autocue know that you must never ever | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
But the excuse was the one that producers use here, | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
they always say the boss wanted the script change made. | :02:16. | :02:21. | |
Well, fun and games aside, Labour is, I suppose, two parties | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
Last year, Labour met just after Jeremy Corbyn | :02:25. | :02:27. | |
Shell shock was the predominant mood among the old guard. | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
This year the party is again meeting just after Jeremy Corbyn has been | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
The mood of the old guard is weary, reluctant, resignation. | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
However, there is a new guard as well. | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
And that, to be blunt, is where the action is. | :02:43. | :02:54. | |
Here is where it's happening, a real buzz, affirmative ideas and | :02:55. | :03:02. | |
discussion on the alternative left. However this isn't the Labour Party. | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
It is an event organised by Momentum, nearby. Reflecting its | :03:08. | :03:10. | |
ambition, it is called the World Transformed. What's wrong with | :03:11. | :03:18. | |
politics at the moment is that it is about whether you are left wing or | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
right-wing, which faction, but that's not what people care about, | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
they care about ideas, issues that affect them. Not only is this not | :03:28. | :03:35. | |
the hard left, it is very soft and compassionate, but the idea that it | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
is left rather than just progressive I think is highly misleading. | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
Momentum only has 18,000 members, far fewer than the Liberal | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
Democrats. Think about their impact on politics. By organisation and | :03:51. | :03:58. | |
dedication that centrists struggled to manage from their homes, they | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
have changed the opposition party beyond recognition and they are | :04:04. | :04:06. | |
entrenching that change. A certain clarity of purpose fuelling the | :04:07. | :04:13. | |
organisation's drive. But then this is the visual Labour conference. It | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
has its moments but it is perhaps a little flat. The stands in the | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
exhibition area rather obviously well spaced out. It seems that the | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
businesses who often want to lobby and be seen at these events have | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
largely stayed away and many of the party malcontents are also absent. | :04:32. | :04:34. | |
Is there a clarity and unity of purpose here? I think we are kidding | :04:35. | :04:41. | |
anyone if we think that the wounds are going to be healed overnight but | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
there is a strong sense that we now have been reminded of the job that | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
we need to get on and do and what people want to see is a strong | :04:51. | :04:58. | |
opposition. I think there's a real desire to do things that are going | :04:59. | :05:01. | |
to make things happen and change in this country. An opposition to | :05:02. | :05:08. | |
what's going on. It would be wrong to portray this official conference | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
as in any way lacklustre. They can fill this enormous hall when they | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
need to, but the official conference has one disadvantage compared to the | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
leftist enthusiasts on the other side of town. Over there, they are | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
getting stuck into the issues, the things that matter to them. Over | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
here, given the different factions in the party and the trouble they | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
have been through, it is hard to get the conversation to move beyond who | :05:35. | :05:37. | |
the leader is and what the rules of engagement are. This may or may not | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
be the year that they managed to progress beyond that. On one measure | :05:43. | :05:48. | |
of Labour ship -- leadership, Labour is the biggest party in Europe. | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
Recovery from its traumas will not be instant. Today, John McDonnell | :05:53. | :06:04. | |
took to the stage, fleshing out his plans and he joins me now. So you | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
said that it is a government in waiting, policies on the shelf, you | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
must get down to the detailed implementation for those policies. | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
Can we start with tax? It is 37% of national income. Roughly where would | :06:20. | :06:26. | |
you to see that end up after five years of Labour government? One of | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
the reviews we are undertaking a review of tax, it is the first of | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
all the requirements of tax that we have but also the range of taxation | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
we want. That's the first stage that is taking place now. We have done a | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
review that we commissioned last year with HMRC looking at tax | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
evasion and avoidance, a lot of work on that. We reviewed HMRC as to how | :06:49. | :06:56. | |
it should be managed and organised. It is one of the pieces of work we | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
are doing. That doesn't sound like a government in waiting. I'm not | :07:02. | :07:09. | |
asking you to give me to the nearest 0.5%, but to the nearest 5%? Nearer | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
the election, you will know more. There is a sense of urgency on this | :07:16. | :07:21. | |
and that is why it... You can't tell me now, you've been Shadow | :07:22. | :07:24. | |
Chancellor for a year, you can't tell me within 5% of national income | :07:25. | :07:27. | |
where you think the tax burden should be? Roughly it should remain | :07:28. | :07:33. | |
where it is. Roughly the same as it is? Let me finish. We don't want to | :07:34. | :07:39. | |
pre-empt the reviews we are doing. What we have said so far is that | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
first of all, we are not talking about increasing income tax on | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
middle and low earners, we want to ensure that the corporations start | :07:49. | :07:51. | |
paying their way, we want to reverse some of the benefits that have been | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
given to the rich and we want to tackle tax evasion and avoidance. We | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
want to invest in the economy and we can grow the tax base. You have not | :08:01. | :08:08. | |
told me that you do not see the tax burden changing very much from where | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
it is. We will look at the tax base and we will come to conclusions | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
before the general election. But you must have some idea, you've been in | :08:18. | :08:20. | |
politics for many years, Shadow Chancellor for a year. Do you want | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
to see us like Sweden and France and the United States? I want to insure | :08:25. | :08:30. | |
that our taxation is fair. I want to make sure that it falls on those | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
best able to pay and that corporations pay their way. We're | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
not talking about your Matic increases in overall taxation but we | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
want to ensure that the work we do, which I promised in the Labour Party | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
conference last year and this year, that every instrument we use will be | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
tested vigorously. You raised the idea of tax in your speech today, | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
you cannot be taxing salaries and wages, we need to tax more on | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
wealth. I'm not going to expect you to tell me the details of your | :09:04. | :09:10. | |
wealth tax plan. We lost the review today. Will it be on housing, a | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
Mansion Tax? That raised 1 billion. I did not think that was going to be | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
very successful. In the review, we will go out and listen to people's | :09:22. | :09:24. | |
ideas and come back fairly quickly on that about the proposals. So you | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
have said you are going to move to a wealth tax and you, at no point -- | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
at this bite, have no idea how you are going to do that? -- at this | :09:36. | :09:42. | |
point. We are looking at wealth and we will do it in a way that engages | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
with the wider community and we will come back with our proposals but the | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
point of the exercise, launched today, is to ensure that whatever | :09:51. | :09:53. | |
measure we use is rigorously tested. I thought you were a government in | :09:54. | :09:59. | |
waiting. The whole point of today's exercise was to say that we need to | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
be ready for a general election, we need policies on the shelf and | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
implementation plans ready. A number of areas like this, that is what we | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
have lost. I'm not expecting you to talk about the detail but I thought | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
we might get the parameters. Another area, immigration. If Labour comes | :10:17. | :10:23. | |
to power, would policies be adopted that would have the objective of | :10:24. | :10:29. | |
trying to get the overall level of net migration down? Migration is | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
dependent on what the economy needs and you can only determine that as | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
the economy develops. Take the Brexit issue, we want to ensure that | :10:37. | :10:42. | |
we have access to the single market. That will be associated with free | :10:43. | :10:50. | |
movement of Labour but that has consequences, the undercutting of | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
wages and pressure on public services, so we will address those | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
issues. Is the answer to the question is, getting immigration | :11:01. | :11:03. | |
down, no, it will not be your objective? It is a simple question. | :11:04. | :11:10. | |
The answer is straightforward. No, it wasn't. It will be based on what | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
the economy needs. Do you expect that to be lower? We will see how | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
the economy develops, it is unpredictable. We want to grow the | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
economy and at different stages there may be opportunities where | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
immigration is important to ensure that the economy grows. Many people | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
are worried about immigration for a different reason to the one you | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
emphasise, you talk about they don't like wages being undercut, being | :11:36. | :11:38. | |
pushed down by the arrival of competing workers. Many people are | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
not worried about that, they are worried about things going on in | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
society, change that they find difficult to digest, they see the | :11:48. | :11:50. | |
community and language changing. Is that a legitimate objection to | :11:51. | :11:57. | |
immigration? It is not an objection to immigration, people are fearful | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
of change sometimes and our job in government and at every level is | :12:02. | :12:08. | |
basically to assist people to overcome those fears and address the | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
issue of change. That has happened for generations. It sounds like you | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
won't let that be taken into account, it is just an economic | :12:18. | :12:20. | |
question. It is also about pressure on public services. Some of the | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
concerns we have heard on the doorstep, especially during the | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
Brexit campaign, was about housing and the health service and we can | :12:29. | :12:31. | |
deal with that by investing in those public services. A third one where | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
I'm afraid the policy is as clear as mud to me, Trident. Now, is it your | :12:36. | :12:44. | |
belief that when Labour goes into the next election, its policy will | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
be to renew Trident? The existing party policy is to renew Trident. | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
We've had a debate in the House of Commons which was a free vote | :12:54. | :12:55. | |
because we believe this was a conscience issue and as a result, | :12:56. | :13:01. | |
the party came to a consideration and the attitude amongst our members | :13:02. | :13:07. | |
is the same. We will get the right to MPs and our members who support | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
Trident to vote accordingly but at the same time we will enable others | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
to campaign against. I don't understand, let's suppose that we | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
have an election next year or the year after, which is not wild | :13:21. | :13:27. | |
fantasy, let's suppose we have an election. If I vote Labour, and by | :13:28. | :13:35. | |
voting for Trident or don't know? In the period until now and the general | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
election, we will fall our manifesto. There will be people like | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
me who are going to be arguing that we should have Trident and others | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
will argue to keep it. At the moment the majority position is to keep it | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
but at the same time, when we go into Parliament, this is a | :13:52. | :13:53. | |
conscience issue and there will be a free vote. Clive Lewis, the Defence | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
Secretary, has said that it is time the party stopped picking at the | :13:59. | :14:05. | |
scab of Trident and he said that he won't be coming back to conference | :14:06. | :14:08. | |
between now and the next election to try and undo the policy that you | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
have an Trident as things stand. Clive Lewis, the Defence Secretary, | :14:13. | :14:18. | |
saying he isn't coming back to look at the policy again. Is your opinion | :14:19. | :14:21. | |
that it is open to be discussed again? It is always open within the | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
Democratic process of the Labour Party for the members to raise an | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
issue, that is called democracy. So is Clive Lewis just speaking for | :14:34. | :14:39. | |
himself? What is the point of...? He says that the matter has been | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
decided but it is always open for the party to raise these issues and | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
I'm sure that will happen on a range of views. So the Defence Secretary | :14:48. | :14:53. | |
is confused, the Shadow Defence Secretary, confused about what the | :14:54. | :15:14. | |
policy is going to be an Trident? He is stating what the position is at | :15:15. | :15:22. | |
the moment. He has the right to review these policies and to change | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
these policies. Anybody in the party can campaign on these issues. Your | :15:27. | :15:29. | |
foreign affairs spokesman says there is an ongoing review. Is that your | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
understanding? Has been an ongoing review for some time. His view is he | :15:35. | :15:41. | |
cannot see it coming back however it is open to others in that to say | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
they wanted discussed again. This is a government in waiting. You're not | :15:47. | :15:55. | |
a government in waiting now? We need to become a government in waiting. | :15:56. | :16:06. | |
That means developing these policies. The Trident one makes a | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
real point because it does not sound like you know what the policy is | :16:11. | :16:16. | |
what it's going to be. There are different views within this party. | :16:17. | :16:22. | |
Is it conceivable you will have a policy on Trident which the leader | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
of your party will not publicly support? Jeremy's position is | :16:27. | :16:32. | |
straightforward, he does not support the renewal of Trident. But if there | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
is a view then that will be party policy. And when we go into that | :16:38. | :16:44. | |
election should we believe the policy or the belief of the leader? | :16:45. | :16:50. | |
The reality is, whatever happens about Trident policy and development | :16:51. | :16:52. | |
there will be a free vote in parliament because it is a | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
conscience issue. We will not know the outcome of that vote? I think | :16:58. | :17:03. | |
that will happen among a number of parties. It is so significant in the | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
minds of the people it has become a conscience issue. We are going to | :17:09. | :17:20. | |
keep you there and talk about party matters. Clive Lewis said you will | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
stick by the Nato target. That is policy. Labour Government have | :17:25. | :17:30. | |
consistently spent above that number. We're going to talk little | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
bit more. We cannot not talk about party unity because if there is none | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
of the latter there will not be an opportunity to implement the former. | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
Our political editor gave his weekend up to keep tabs. | :17:45. | :18:04. | |
The revolution may have some way to run but this was beyond their | :18:05. | :18:11. | |
imagination a few years ago. Today was the time for generosity, as John | :18:12. | :18:22. | |
McDonnell called on them to think about how they could change the | :18:23. | :18:26. | |
world. If Labour came together they could create a radically fear of | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
society. The world has changed, and the things Jeremy Corbyn is talking | :18:33. | :18:35. | |
about are the issues people are finding relevant and in their lives, | :18:36. | :18:41. | |
finding appropriate housing when rent is high and house ownership is | :18:42. | :18:43. | |
going down and house-building is at the lowest point in peacetime | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
Britain. We need to address the issues. There is a change in the | :18:48. | :18:55. | |
atmosphere as both sides peer out of the trenches. Jeremy Corbyn is | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
embarking on a note reach programme and his critics admit he's here to | :19:00. | :19:05. | |
stay. -- and our reach. There is still mutual suspicion and most of | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
the plotters say the need reassurance before they return to | :19:10. | :19:14. | |
the fore. I hope he can put together a Shadow Cabinet of all the talents. | :19:15. | :19:21. | |
But that does require Jeremy and his newly reimbursed mandate to reach | :19:22. | :19:28. | |
out to the PLP and say, I want to work together. That is why Shadow | :19:29. | :19:33. | |
Cabinet elections are a significant indicator. One old hand says it is | :19:34. | :19:42. | |
unreasonable for those who turned their back on Jeremy Corbyn to | :19:43. | :19:45. | |
demand elections to the Shadow Cabinet. The argument about whether | :19:46. | :19:52. | |
we should have that, I was elected in that process, but the PLP said, | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
get rid of them. Now they're saying they wanted. We've said a lot of | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
things, some abusive comments have been made on both sides, whether it | :20:02. | :20:07. | |
is some in the PLP or some in Momentum. Wipe the slate clean. Over | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
at the political and cultural festival organised by Jeremy | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
Corbyn's Pretoria guard in the Momentum movement, one supporter | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
said the plotters should fall into line and back their leader. I think | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
he will be popular once he stops being knifed in the back by the | :20:26. | :20:32. | |
right-wing. If you are a football manager and half the team leave the | :20:33. | :20:35. | |
pitch before the whistle is blown you're not going to score many | :20:36. | :20:41. | |
goals. But the former frontbenchers are not giving up and are working as | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
a group, as they say they need clarity on the contentious issue of | :20:48. | :20:54. | |
the selection of MPs. I could see the group going back but it would | :20:55. | :20:57. | |
only be worthwhile if there were signs from the leadership that they | :20:58. | :21:00. | |
genuinely wanted to be a government of all the talents. Also, making it | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
clear that the selection is not where time should be spent. It | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
should be spent on fighting the Tories. Ken Loach says MPs should | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
learn to come to terms with democracy. They are on the ballot | :21:16. | :21:21. | |
paper because they are chosen by the Labour Party constituency. If they | :21:22. | :21:29. | |
got a majority, they got that as the Labour Party. Have you got job | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
security for five years? Being an MP is not a job for life. Many of the | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
plotters are contrite and admit it was a mistake of historic | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
proportions. But when it comes to control of their party, the battle | :21:45. | :21:52. | |
is far from over. Nick is with me now. You've been out and about | :21:53. | :21:58. | |
today. How has this marriage guidance business gone? There was a | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
big moment today. You were just discussing on that issue from | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
Labour, nuclear disarmament. This conference may be remembered for a | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
stand-off on personnel. Charlie Faulkner says if Jeremy Corbyn wants | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
to bring back the frontbenchers he'd need to give ground on the | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
elections. I understand Jeremy Corbyn is prepared to send out a | :22:20. | :22:22. | |
pretty tough message and say he would be willing to move before | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
there is an agreement on Shadow Cabinet elections. No reshuffle | :22:27. | :22:32. | |
until after this conference concludes but evidently, Jeremy | :22:33. | :22:36. | |
Corbyn is saying that if he wants to appoint a Shadow Cabinet he could | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
appoint a very respectable and credible Shadow Cabinet tomorrow and | :22:41. | :22:47. | |
as per the wider front bench... There are 65 vacancies to fill and | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
evidently what he is saying is we could have an even more efficient | :22:53. | :22:55. | |
front bench if we did not have as many. You mentioned in your piece | :22:56. | :23:02. | |
they are organised, tell me about the organisation of the rebels, the | :23:03. | :23:12. | |
opposition. There is one laudable. One frontbencher said there are some | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
loan rules but most of them are swimming in a shawl. Their efforts | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
are being co-ordinated by the whips and the leadership of the PLP. What | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
I've learned is when that group here of a lone wolf, they see a name in | :23:27. | :23:33. | |
the newspapers, that person is tapped on the shoulder and given a | :23:34. | :23:40. | |
message, watch out because if you go in your going to undermine Tom | :23:41. | :23:44. | |
Watson's efforts to get Shadow Cabinet elections. Why is there a | :23:45. | :23:51. | |
fuss? The Shadow Cabinet has three members on the NEC and they are | :23:52. | :23:54. | |
watching the balance of that very carefully. John McDonnell is still | :23:55. | :24:00. | |
with me. Let's talk about some of these party matters. Does it bother | :24:01. | :24:14. | |
you that they are acting as a union? A shoal of fish tapping wolves on | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
the shoulder? It is a bit of a mixed message. There have always been | :24:19. | :24:21. | |
different complexions. I'm not aware of this analogy. The whole tenure of | :24:22. | :24:28. | |
this conference is about uniting and if you talk to the membership and | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
large amounts of the PLP, they want the party to unite, to develop the | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
policies that we want for a government in waiting. It would be | :24:39. | :24:45. | |
tempting to appoint a Shadow Cabinet of Corbynistas rebels who want to | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
come back. This sort of language about rebels, a number of people | :24:51. | :24:53. | |
have resigned, some of them want to come back. That's great. I would | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
welcome them all back. You see you'd welcome them all back. Some of them | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
have said really nasty things about the leader. Is it literally wiping | :25:03. | :25:10. | |
the slate clean or are there some for whom that slate is too scarred? | :25:11. | :25:18. | |
Yes, yes... What we've been saying is what is said on tour remains | :25:19. | :25:24. | |
onto! Leadership election took place, Jeremy Corbyn and increased | :25:25. | :25:30. | |
mandate, you put them behind. One person said he could not tolerate | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
his hypocrisy any longer. You're talking to someone who has also not | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
been very careful with his language. You said he was part of the | :25:40. | :25:44. | |
establishment, throwing everything, you regret that... In a campaign, | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
harsh words get spoken but when you come to the end of that, Democratic | :25:51. | :25:56. | |
decisions are made and even despite those harsh words, I was in that | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
green room when the announcement was made and I was extremely friendly | :26:01. | :26:07. | |
and comradely. Hilary Benn is a big beast of the party. It would be | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
great if you could get him. Do you think Jeremy Corbyn would like that? | :26:13. | :26:16. | |
Yell Mac I'm sure. I've worked with Hillary over the years, he was a | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
local ward councillor in my constituency. He is incredibly | :26:22. | :26:24. | |
talented and could play a vital role. You would obviously facilitate | :26:25. | :26:31. | |
unity if you made a compromise. I'm making cup of tea is with everyone. | :26:32. | :26:37. | |
That is not comprise, it is charm. One of them would be to say you | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
could have Shadow Cabinet elections. It has not been ruled out. How | :26:43. | :26:48. | |
likely do you think it is? You could click your fingers and do it. This | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
is the problem we've got. Any move made by Jeremy could bring some | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
on-site and push others away. What we've got to do is build a consensus | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
so we don't push people back into the corners again. That takes a | :27:02. | :27:07. | |
little bit of time and quite a bit of compromising. Jeremy is into | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
that. Who will be pushed away by compromise? Some within the party | :27:13. | :27:20. | |
are seeing if there are Shadow Cabinet elections, we want a role | :27:21. | :27:23. | |
within that, and that is the membership. But that is just one | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
issue, there are a whole range of issues about democratising the | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
party, involving members, how you elect the NEC. The other issue, the | :27:32. | :27:41. | |
PLP feel very strongly about it, mandatory reselection. At the moment | :27:42. | :27:47. | |
they can be booted out if the party does not like them. We've ruled out. | :27:48. | :27:54. | |
On the boundary commission, we've got the Chief Whip leading on that. | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
We oppose it in the court and Parliament. If it goes ahead, the | :27:59. | :28:04. | |
existing rules will apply. That means if an MP has a certain | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
percentage in a constituency, they will have the right. Even if the | :28:09. | :28:15. | |
membership say they want that. You plan to oppose it? Is our view is | :28:16. | :28:25. | |
not appropriate, we've got to overcome this problem hopefully by | :28:26. | :28:33. | |
defeating the boundary commission. We're trying to make sure the | :28:34. | :28:41. | |
existing rules apply. John McDonnell is the best in the Shadow Cabinet | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
but how many of the others can you name? | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
With some of the familiar old names not in the shadow cabinet, | :28:50. | :28:52. | |
it's taking time for everyone to get to know the new. | :28:53. | :28:55. | |
We sent Lewis Goodall out in the streets of Liverpool, | :28:56. | :28:57. | |
to see how well Labour's senior figures are cutting through. | :28:58. | :29:09. | |
This gentleman here? The Labour leader. His name? It has gone out of | :29:10. | :29:18. | |
my head. Do you know any members of the Shadow Cabinet? I'm going to | :29:19. | :29:25. | |
look like the typical stupid person. This person here? John McDonnell, | :29:26. | :29:33. | |
Shadow Chancellor. Pretty good. This lady? That is Diane Abbott. Do you | :29:34. | :29:43. | |
know him? No. And her? No. This is bad. You know her? Giving a big | :29:44. | :29:50. | |
speech today, do you know who that is? Who is that? Any idea? No. John | :29:51. | :30:00. | |
McDonnell, the Shadow Chancellor. Is he changing anything? I haven't had | :30:01. | :30:05. | |
much luck in Liverpool but I'm hoping here will be more successful. | :30:06. | :30:17. | |
The Shadow Justice Secretary, what do you think of him? Not my cup of | :30:18. | :30:25. | |
tea. We can find out this stuff, so what is the purpose of you trying to | :30:26. | :30:33. | |
catch us out? Trying to demonstrate... Showing we are in it | :30:34. | :30:38. | |
-- showing we are ignorant but I don't think this is a very success | :30:39. | :30:41. | |
will argument. I'm not criticising this gentleman. He is basically | :30:42. | :30:48. | |
saying, you don't know who these people are, wouldn't it be more | :30:49. | :30:53. | |
sensible to let the MPs decide? You have done better than many of the | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
Labour Party members? Even the members? You should sign up, they | :30:58. | :30:59. | |
are just down there. Politics can be about vision, | :31:00. | :31:09. | |
having a clear idea Weighing up different views, | :31:10. | :31:11. | |
working out the best compromise. You judge whether Mr Corbyn has | :31:12. | :31:20. | |
the vision, we are going to discuss Two people not in the Corbyn | :31:21. | :31:23. | |
wing are with me. He was in the shadow | :31:24. | :31:26. | |
cabinet under Ed Miliband, she was in the shadow cabinet under | :31:27. | :31:32. | |
Jeremy Corbyn until she resigned. That was back in June. I don't know | :31:33. | :31:45. | |
if you heard everything John Gunnell was saying there. I wanted to know | :31:46. | :31:50. | |
how reassuring it was that Macdonald Donnell. He said that there would be | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
no mandatory reselection, is that correct? That is a positive thing to | :31:56. | :32:02. | |
hear and I think it is a good thing because what we need after a | :32:03. | :32:06. | |
bruising summer, there needs to be a reaching out and working together | :32:07. | :32:09. | |
and addressing some of the concerns that have been raised by the | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
Parliamentary Labour Party. He seemed to imply that it had already | :32:14. | :32:16. | |
been clarified. Is that clear to you? I hope that is the case. For | :32:17. | :32:25. | |
John to say that, I haven't heard it clearly before, but for John to say | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
that I think is important because it sends the message about hearing some | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
of the concerns and saying that if we are to move forward, as we need | :32:35. | :32:39. | |
to, to move forward in a way that means we can focus on the Tories | :32:40. | :32:42. | |
means that we address some of the issues that have been raised. You | :32:43. | :32:48. | |
have to rack set the rules as they are, we have a set of rules, the | :32:49. | :32:51. | |
selection of candidates, where people are coming in, new | :32:52. | :32:59. | |
candidates, you have to rack set that there will be no change to the | :33:00. | :33:02. | |
rules on parliamentary selection. Shut down the issue and frankly we | :33:03. | :33:06. | |
shouldn't be having any talk about the deselection of Labour MPs. The | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
only talk of deselection there should be is of the Conservative MPs | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
in the next election. Let me ask you, would you both say that you are | :33:16. | :33:24. | |
socialists? An embarrassed -- not embarrassed to use the word? I have | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
called myself a democratic socialist, because the words of | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
equality and fairness. But I also recognise that you need a way in | :33:35. | :33:42. | |
which you are developing an agenda, the language that can reach out. I | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
think it is positive, if we can find ways to come together, focus on | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
common values, that is an agenda. Democratic socialist, Socialist | :33:53. | :33:58. | |
democrat. Just a socialist. People watching the programme did not care | :33:59. | :34:02. | |
about labels, they will care about what you will do for me and my | :34:03. | :34:05. | |
community, how are you going to build a fairer Britain and help me | :34:06. | :34:14. | |
realise my ambition? I published a pamphlet on the case for socialism. | :34:15. | :34:18. | |
I think this is a slight distraction, the big message is | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
about how we invest in the future, shared prosperity, that's what it's | :34:23. | :34:25. | |
about and I don't want to lose focus on that. I don't think any of us do. | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
The conference should be about setting the agenda. Being the same | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
page as the British people, having an economy that works for everybody, | :34:36. | :34:38. | |
tackling the issues following Brexit, making sure we have the NHS | :34:39. | :34:43. | |
and social care that are fit for the future. You're both behaving well | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
and saying what the party should say. We are saying what we think. So | :34:48. | :34:53. | |
why don't you serve in the Shadow Cabinet? The obvious way to serve | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
your party, he has the mandate, you have some of the talent and ideas, | :34:58. | :35:04. | |
why not join the Shadow Cabinet? I'm standing to become the chair of the | :35:05. | :35:06. | |
House of Commons select committee but I wouldn't rule anything out. | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
There are a variety of ways that people can contribute. Tom Watson, | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
part of the way he became the deputy leader is because of the fantastic | :35:16. | :35:18. | |
work he did on the culture select committee, holding people like you | :35:19. | :35:22. | |
to account or Margaret Hodge, holding the multinationals to | :35:23. | :35:29. | |
account. It sounds like you are running away from serving in Jeremy | :35:30. | :35:32. | |
Corbyn's Labour Party, you would like an independent job. Why not | :35:33. | :35:38. | |
serve the new leader, he has a mandate? I haven't ruled anything | :35:39. | :35:44. | |
out. So you are available? I am in the election I'm standing in at the | :35:45. | :35:51. | |
moment. If people want to serve, I think we need people doing a variety | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
of things, there is not one exclusive way to contribute. There | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
will be people who will go back and serve on the front bench and they | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
will have my support. There is a bigger picture about how we have a | :36:04. | :36:06. | |
much better way of constructing a better way of working and dealing | :36:07. | :36:09. | |
with the issues that led to the leadership election. I think that is | :36:10. | :36:18. | |
right,... Will you serve in the Shadow Cabinet? The reason the | :36:19. | :36:24. | |
election to the Shadow Cabinet is that it is a win-win. You may not | :36:25. | :36:31. | |
win that argument. If there isn't an elected Shadow Cabinet, why don't | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
you serve Jeremy Corbyn? By making the point that if you want a way in | :36:36. | :36:40. | |
which we build bridges across the Parliamentary Labour Party, which I | :36:41. | :36:43. | |
want to see, between the leadership and those who have served and those | :36:44. | :36:47. | |
who chose not to over the last 12 months, some things may need to | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
change, give and take on both sides and the role of the leader is | :36:52. | :36:54. | |
central in changing some of the conditions. That's why having a way | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
for the Parliamentary Labour Party to have a stake in the success of us | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
as an operation, that is an important move. I think it is | :37:04. | :37:09. | |
important because we want to see a shift on some of the issues and also | :37:10. | :37:14. | |
around tackling the abuse we've seen in the party, some action to reduce | :37:15. | :37:20. | |
and stop that. And we need to move together constructively, that's what | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
the members want to see. We have a view seconds. You told me many | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
things you want. Chuka Umunna, what are the compromises you are -- your | :37:29. | :37:34. | |
wing of the party is willing to make? You have lost, you have been | :37:35. | :37:38. | |
trounced, you have a leader with different beliefs, what is the | :37:39. | :37:41. | |
compromise you are going to make for him? I think people are going to go | :37:42. | :37:47. | |
back and serve on the front bench. Secondly, in many respects, this | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
internal navel-gazing, the obsession with each other isn't going to win | :37:52. | :37:54. | |
us the election. The one gold everyone has agreed on is winning | :37:55. | :37:59. | |
the election but let me say that we're not going to do by talking to | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
each other about things we agree on -- the one goal. On the economy, one | :38:05. | :38:11. | |
reason we lost the election is our perceived economic incompetence, we | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
must deal with that. Just over one third of Labour voters voted against | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
the official position of the Labour Party, on the referendum, | :38:22. | :38:23. | |
principally on issues around immigration. Why don't advocate the | :38:24. | :38:27. | |
adoption of the approach that Ukip toque but we need an approach that | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
resonates with our values -- that Ukip toque. We're out of time. -- | :38:34. | :38:37. | |
that they took. Now before we go, we've been | :38:38. | :38:40. | |
reporting for the last week on the controversy surrounding | :38:41. | :38:42. | |
the use of powerful steroid injections by one of Britain's | :38:43. | :38:45. | |
greatest sportsmen, Sir Bradley Wiggins, | :38:46. | :38:46. | |
ahead of three of his biggest races. Details of the injections emerged | :38:47. | :38:49. | |
after hackers released files from the international | :38:50. | :38:53. | |
anti-doping body Wada. What they revealed was | :38:54. | :38:55. | |
perfectly within the rules - but several experts and cyclists | :38:56. | :38:58. | |
suggested his use of a powerful drug which has been used in the past | :38:59. | :39:01. | |
by cheats just didn't smell good. Today the head of Wiggins' cycling | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
team, Sir Dave Brailsford, spoke for the first time | :39:07. | :39:08. | |
about the affair to the BBC's Here's Mark Daly, who's been | :39:09. | :39:11. | |
covering the story for us. It was 11 days ago when we first | :39:12. | :39:23. | |
heard about Bradley Wiggins's therapeutic use exemptions, revealed | :39:24. | :39:29. | |
by the suspected Russian hackers and on Newsnight we were raising | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
questions about this powerful drug that he was given special | :39:34. | :39:38. | |
dispensation to use by the cycling authorities for his asthma and | :39:39. | :39:42. | |
allergies. It was controversial because it is a banned drug that was | :39:43. | :39:48. | |
abused for years by cyclists including Michael Rasmussen, the | :39:49. | :39:51. | |
pro-cyclist who told us that it is one of the most potent drugs are | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
used. We heard from Sir Bradley Wiggins' former team doctor who said | :39:56. | :40:00. | |
that he was surprised that his former rider had to have such a | :40:01. | :40:04. | |
powerful medical intervention. Yesterday we heard from Sir Bradley | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
himself on the Andrew Marr show when he said that the drug was indeed for | :40:10. | :40:16. | |
a genuine medical condition and not for performance enhancing purposes | :40:17. | :40:22. | |
but that appearance raised more questions than answers for many | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
people and today it was so Dave Brailsford, the boss of Team Sky, | :40:27. | :40:33. | |
who was being questioned. He mounted a defence of his former rider and | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
the Team Sky processes. He said they followed advice from the team doctor | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
and from the specialist who examined Sir Bradley Wiggins. He may have | :40:43. | :40:49. | |
hoped that his intervention could draw a line under the saga but I | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
doubt that because there remained some issues not resolved because | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
four example there was no real explanation as to why it serve a | :40:58. | :41:03. | |
knee needed the drug in 2011, 2012 and 2013 but not in 2014. He didn't | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
answer the questions about the inconsistencies in Wiggins' books, | :41:09. | :41:15. | |
his autobiography, when he said that he had been healthy in 2012 and yet | :41:16. | :41:20. | |
here he is, having this powerful medical intervention. And also the | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
issue of whose idea this was in the first place. Was it the ear, nose | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
and throat specialist who he saw or did the idea come from within Team | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
Sky itself? That is something that can put two so Dave Brailsford today | :41:36. | :41:44. | |
-- Daniel. Five or six years ago, I can't pinpoint it exactly but I know | :41:45. | :41:50. | |
that I've seen the reports from the specialist which quite clearly state | :41:51. | :41:56. | |
that Bradley is suffering from a condition, he quite clearly states | :41:57. | :42:01. | |
that the medication he was taking was being used optimally and was | :42:02. | :42:08. | |
ineffective and he recommended that Bradley was given this particular | :42:09. | :42:12. | |
medication to alleviate his symptoms. When I read that, I've got | :42:13. | :42:19. | |
no reason to question the validity, the decision-making of a | :42:20. | :42:22. | |
professional of that stature. It goes to the authorities. It was | :42:23. | :42:30. | |
applied for, conveniently, just before the grand tours in three | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
consecutive years, so effectively it was preventative, right? He was | :42:35. | :42:41. | |
taking it in case. Let's be clear, a lot of TUEs in sport for asthma | :42:42. | :42:50. | |
sufferers, allergic reactions, etc, and the nature is that you don't | :42:51. | :42:56. | |
wait until you are really suffering, you have a puffer beforehand. There | :42:57. | :43:00. | |
are contradictions that have come out, for example talking to Andrew | :43:01. | :43:08. | |
Marr he said he wanted different treatment because he was struggling | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
in the build-up to the 2012 Tour de France but there is no reference to | :43:13. | :43:15. | |
that in his book and he said that he was in great health, fine form. Do | :43:16. | :43:21. | |
you remember any evidence of him suffering? I've known him for a long | :43:22. | :43:25. | |
time and I know that he has asthma and has had problems with allergies | :43:26. | :43:29. | |
and that has been with him for his whole career. Any regrets about him | :43:30. | :43:35. | |
taking that medication at those times from you? With the information | :43:36. | :43:42. | |
I had at the time, five or six years ago, at that moment in time, the way | :43:43. | :43:47. | |
it was presented and the expert opinion and the entire process, I | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
would make the same decision then. And with the information you have | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
now? We definitely reflect as we move on and we have changed our | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
policies, as have the authorities around TUEs, but that is a | :44:03. | :44:06. | |
reflection of learning and good practice and everyone's attempts to | :44:07. | :44:14. | |
be rigorous around the TUE process. So you have crossed the thin blue | :44:15. | :44:20. | |
line, the cornerstone? Not at all. The one mantra, you can ask anybody | :44:21. | :44:29. | |
who has been in the team, we absolutely, there is no crossing the | :44:30. | :44:32. | |
line, we do not go over the line. Maybe there is a grey area where you | :44:33. | :44:38. | |
are within the rules but perhaps you have contravened the spirit of them? | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
Claiming to be whiter than white but are you in a grey area? That's a | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
fair question in terms of the debate about that aspect and people can | :44:48. | :44:53. | |
have opinions. We can trust Sky and their achievements? 100%, | :44:54. | :44:59. | |
absolutely, 100%, that is why we created the team in the first place, | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
don't forget. This sport has had a difficult time in the past and the | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
whole reason and ambition about creating Team Sky, having worked in | :45:08. | :45:14. | |
this velodrome for ten years and the time, seeing young guys going out | :45:15. | :45:20. | |
into a world where you wanted professional teams, where you knew | :45:21. | :45:23. | |
that they could go and never ever be pressured to cheat or take any kind | :45:24. | :45:29. | |
of doping substances and that's what we tried to do. We created that team | :45:30. | :45:35. | |
and environment and I can guarantee you that nobody has or will ever get | :45:36. | :45:39. | |
put under pressure in this team to do anything outside of the rules. | :45:40. | :45:44. | |
Sir David Brailsford talking to Dan Roan. | :45:45. | :45:48. | |
We'll be back here in Liverpool tomorrow night with the latest | :45:49. | :45:51. | |
on Labour, but that's it for tonight, on a day | :45:52. | :45:53. | |
that the Shadow Chancellor pledged that under a Labour government | :45:54. | :45:56. | |
there would be no more Philip Greens. | :45:57. | :45:58. | |
We estimate there are quite few people with that name in the UK, | :45:59. | :46:02. | |
so if you're one of them, we suggest you don't answer the door | :46:03. | :46:05. | |
We will shake up how corporations work and how the economy is owned | :46:06. | :46:15. | |
and managed, we will clamp down on the abuses of power at the very top. | :46:16. | :46:19. | |
Under Labour, no more Philip Greens at all. | :46:20. | :46:41. | |
Expect a rather drab start to your Tuesday morning, lot of cloud, thick | :46:42. | :46:46. | |
enough | :46:47. | :46:47. |