28/09/2016 Newsnight


28/09/2016

The horrors of Aleppo from inside a hospital and the latest on the abuse inquiry. Plus Jeremy Corbyn speaks, prog rock returns, and did the working class really vote for Brexit?


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Transcript


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Words can no longer capture the reality of life in Aleppo..

:00:00.:00:00.

We'll bring you recent footage of doctors working

:00:07.:00:11.

doing their utmost to help children in the most desperate conditions.

:00:12.:00:16.

It is difficult viewing, but no-one watching the pictures

:00:17.:00:19.

coming out the city can say they were never told

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We'll ask this rescue worker in Aleppo why

:00:22.:00:29.

Also tonight Ryhall ladies and gentlemen, please well, Jeremy

:00:30.:00:38.

Corbyn. Also tonight we send Newsnight's man

:00:39.:00:42.

of the people Chris Cook on the road to see how Corbyn is playing

:00:43.:00:45.

in the bellweather constituencies. Now that I have listened

:00:46.:00:48.

to him properly. With Tony Blair, I only voted

:00:49.:00:53.

for him, I never liked the bloke anyway, but he was

:00:54.:00:56.

the better of the options. Our previous Newsnight man is here

:00:57.:01:12.

to put the case for word. Tony Blair 's speech writer may disagree.

:01:13.:01:15.

And we relive the era of Prog Rock, in case you didn't realise how

:01:16.:01:19.

What seemed like a worldwide revolution about changing the way

:01:20.:01:27.

the world is, looking for a better place,, their Age of Aquarius was on

:01:28.:01:32.

our doorstep as well. Hello, The words to describe

:01:33.:01:37.

the plight of the city of Aleppo However, with the help of doctors

:01:38.:01:40.

there, we can show you recent The background is that

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the rebel-held eastern part of the city is under siege

:01:45.:01:47.

and is victim to a sustained assault by the Syrian government; terror has

:01:48.:01:50.

been rained upon the residents for days, surpassing some

:01:51.:01:53.

of extremes of brutality Today, two hospitals were struck,

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and it is inside a hospital, Many would say that

:01:56.:02:02.

if what you are about to see is not classed as a war crime,

:02:03.:02:08.

then it should be. John Sweeney has been looking though

:02:09.:02:11.

the footage and obviously I should Imagine if your local hospital

:02:12.:02:28.

looked like this. No water, no time to clean up the blood and where the

:02:29.:02:32.

living live cheek by jowl with the dead. This is Aleppo under siege in

:02:33.:02:43.

an underground hospital. The war in Syria gets more pitiless by the day,

:02:44.:02:49.

the bombing of Aleppo is relentless. Early this morning, blasts from a

:02:50.:02:54.

bomb caused concrete to fall on the intensive care unit in the hospital

:02:55.:02:58.

and knocked out its oxygen generator. On Sunday, cluster bombs

:02:59.:03:05.

some with a new factor marks by Russia, blasted Aleppo. The hospital

:03:06.:03:11.

had 180 patients, ten died and on Monday 27 patients died, amongst

:03:12.:03:15.

them seven children. We cannot check those numbers, but these images are

:03:16.:03:22.

not make-believe. This is brain surgery carried out on the floor

:03:23.:03:26.

because all the other bed in intensive care have been taken.

:03:27.:03:39.

When a cluster bomb explodes, it fires out ball bearings and one

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ended up here, according to this x-ray in the spine of this little

:03:46.:03:47.

boy. A second came through the back of

:03:48.:04:05.

this boy's head to end up behind his nose. A third landed in this

:04:06.:04:15.

patient's liver. This fragment here, we are trying to extract it, without

:04:16.:04:25.

injuring the elements of it. Oh my gosh! This is a big fragment here,

:04:26.:04:35.

actually. This is from a cluster bomb. What are we looking at? This

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man works for BBC Arabic and comes from Aleppo. He watched the footage

:04:42.:04:48.

we have been sent. What is it like being a patient this hospital? You

:04:49.:04:54.

have a very slim chance to survive. Because of the number of casualties

:04:55.:05:01.

and injuries, they cannot cope. They leave the casualties on the floor

:05:02.:05:04.

and they have to take care of the people who have the better chance to

:05:05.:05:11.

make it. That is the only way they can cope. They are under constant

:05:12.:05:17.

bombardment. Some of the images being sent from Aleppo cannot be

:05:18.:05:23.

shown. The next picture is off, I think it is a child, it is a mess of

:05:24.:05:31.

blood and concrete, the head may be decapitated. It may be one of the

:05:32.:05:36.

worst things I have ever seen and it is on broadcast of all. There is a

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problem with that. We are not sure we knew, the full horror of this

:05:43.:05:47.

war, we are not able to broadcast it. The news from the hospital is

:05:48.:05:53.

not all bleak. Two weeks ago, we saw this operation using a surgeon in

:05:54.:06:00.

London who directed his colleagues how to build a new job for this man.

:06:01.:06:03.

Now, he can talk. Tonight the life of this patient and

:06:04.:06:16.

the children with ball bearings in their bodies are in the hands of the

:06:17.:06:24.

doctors free Aleppo. That report was compiled by John Sweeney.

:06:25.:06:26.

Earlier this evening, we got an internet video phone

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connection to Aleppo, and I spoke to Ishmael al-Abdullah,

:06:29.:06:30.

who is with the White Helmets, a Syrian volunteer rescue group.

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I began by asking him whether most of the victims in Aleppo

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The most victims in Aleppo city are children.

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Because if you were a father and you are now in Aleppo city,

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if you have kids, you will not leave the kids, leave your house,

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and you will make them stay in your house.

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And when the air strike targeted your house, eventually,

:07:02.:07:07.

the kids will be under the rubble and will be injured.

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Because we don't have any schools, anything.

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and now they make them sleep more to consume less food.

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And this is why most of the kids are the victims in Aleppo.

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Ishmael, you have been to the hospitals that

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Can you just tell us what you saw when you visited those facilities?

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Actually, it's a big damage there, and destruction, and the nurse died

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And the hospital - it's not the first time

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Just three days ago, it was targeted, direct, actually.

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Everyone who gets injured, the first thing they say, OK,

:07:58.:08:04.

A dangerous place more than any place.

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The doctors who are working in those hospitals, they're real heroes.

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All that we have, just a few doctors in all Aleppo city,

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they are moving from hospital to another hospital.

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They stay in this hospital five hours, then they go to the other

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And everyone, everyone who works in the hospitals now are heroes,

:08:31.:08:41.

actually, because they are risking their lives,

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and they know in any moment they can be killed

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what is the situation in eastern Aleppo, quite apart

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I came to a bakery today, and many people who were gathering

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in the morning to get bread for their kids, for their families,

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and they were targeted by the air strike, the mortars,

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and many people died in that massacre.

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Again, it's not the first time they targeted the bakeries.

:09:19.:09:27.

A warplane was, and it still is in our sky,

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Do you ever think, we should give in, we should let Assad

:09:41.:09:47.

take this place over, because the siege

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No, because most of the people who are staying in Aleppo city now,

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When the road was open, they didn't go.

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They stayed to defend, to say no to the bombing.

:10:08.:10:11.

If the situation gets worse, I don't know.

:10:12.:10:14.

Maybe we will say something else, but up to now, people

:10:15.:10:19.

Ishmael al-Abdullah, thank you very much.

:10:20.:10:23.

In Liverpool it was Jeremy Corbyn's big day: his second

:10:24.:10:32.

An hour long, it was undoubtedly considerably more confidently

:10:33.:10:36.

More cleverly populist in its themes; I thought more

:10:37.:10:41.

aspiration, optimism and sunny socialist upland than you sometimes

:10:42.:10:45.

get, and a number of specific ideas in there too.

:10:46.:10:48.

But let's hear what our political editor thinks -

:10:49.:10:52.

What did you think? This was the best speech by Jeremy Corbyn on a

:10:53.:11:06.

national stage. One year into the job and after that challenge, this

:11:07.:11:10.

was the most fluent performance we have seen from him. There were

:11:11.:11:14.

messages for his critics who say you're only interested in leading a

:11:15.:11:18.

protest group and he said that campaigning was at the heart of the

:11:19.:11:24.

movement but it seeks to win power at a national and local level to

:11:25.:11:28.

improve lives. He did have messages for his supporters, he said it was

:11:29.:11:32.

right for him to apologise on behalf of the party for the Iraq war and we

:11:33.:11:39.

did hear the word that dare not speak its name, socialism. As he put

:11:40.:11:43.

at the party on an election footing, it appeared to be an attempt to

:11:44.:11:47.

reach out to the wider electorate and really explain some of the ideas

:11:48.:11:51.

and policies that would form the heart of an election campaign led by

:11:52.:12:00.

him, allowing councils to borrow against housing stock to allow extra

:12:01.:12:03.

homes to be built and encouraging children to learn an instrument

:12:04.:12:06.

through an arts Pupil Premium programme. His critics say, you can

:12:07.:12:12.

dream the greatest dreams, but unless you have economic

:12:13.:12:14.

credibility, no one will take you seriously. Jeremy Corbyn was the

:12:15.:12:21.

last act, what happens now? It looks like he will reshuffle his front

:12:22.:12:27.

bench before he reaches agreement with the Parliamentary label party

:12:28.:12:30.

on elections to the Shadow Cabinet. That will not happen until November.

:12:31.:12:36.

I spoke to two former frontbenchers who say they will go back and some

:12:37.:12:41.

of the people who are in favour of the elections oppose them a few

:12:42.:12:45.

years ago and they think that around a dozen will go back. But there is a

:12:46.:12:50.

much larger group of former frontbenchers who will not return,

:12:51.:12:56.

they have appointed the chairman of the PLP as they're informal shop

:12:57.:12:59.

steward and I spoke to one of them and they said we have heard about

:13:00.:13:02.

the Olive tree but we have not seen the olive branches yet. They want a

:13:03.:13:08.

clear undertaking from Jeremy Corbyn that he will discourage deselection

:13:09.:13:10.

selections and move on those elections.

:13:11.:13:12.

But everybody knows that is not the mainstream media that matters,

:13:13.:13:16.

not the pundits, not the members, it is what the public think that

:13:17.:13:19.

matters, which is why we sent Chris Cook to the marginal

:13:20.:13:21.

constituency of Bury North, in the north part of Bury,

:13:22.:13:24.

What did the folks there make of it, or at least the ones

:13:25.:13:28.

who we enticed into sitting down to watch the speech?

:13:29.:13:31.

Bury, on the outskirts of Manchester, was the home

:13:32.:13:34.

of Robert Peel, a man who transformed the Conservative

:13:35.:13:36.

And, in a pub that bears his name, we assembled a panel of voters

:13:37.:13:42.

One is a new voter, and three are winnable voters who have

:13:43.:13:51.

The issue that most divided this group was economics,

:13:52.:13:59.

specifically, Mr Corbyn's plans for more public spending.

:14:00.:14:05.

We've set out proposals for a national investment plan,

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with 500 billion of investment, to bring our broadband,

:14:10.:14:11.

our railways, housing and energy infrastructure up to scratch.

:14:12.:14:19.

To borrow 500 billion, did he say, or million?

:14:20.:14:22.

You've got to invest to get it back in. But what about the global

:14:23.:14:47.

financial crash? I agree, but equally, what are we going to do?

:14:48.:14:56.

Let the services like the NHS, our roads, you know, our

:14:57.:15:02.

infrastructure... We need to invest. And build a fairer Britain in a

:15:03.:15:07.

peaceful world. Thank you. CROWD CHEERS

:15:08.:15:15.

We have to make sure that... No one would disagree that corporate

:15:16.:15:24.

should be paying the right taxes. That's a given. I think adding an

:15:25.:15:30.

extra percentage to national insurance for all businesses is

:15:31.:15:34.

almost like throwing the baby out with the bath water, which is what

:15:35.:15:39.

he does with a number of policies, like zero-hour contracts.

:15:40.:15:41.

Mr Corbyn also set out a liberal position on immigration,

:15:42.:15:43.

which this group was pretty relaxed about.

:15:44.:15:45.

But they acknowledged others would disagree.

:15:46.:15:50.

Where are they going to go? It's an island. You can see that that will

:15:51.:16:00.

be a bit problematic. Precisely. It's not a racist point, it's...

:16:01.:16:04.

Still, Mr Corbyn impressed this group of voters, even

:16:05.:16:06.

I'd like to hear more about his plan to the economy, especially

:16:07.:16:18.

borrowing. I agree that austerity hasn't worked, but we've also seen

:16:19.:16:22.

that borrowing has worked in the past, so I'd like to see what his

:16:23.:16:28.

plans are to make it work. I think that speech was sound bites for

:16:29.:16:33.

people who feel left behind. I don't think it was the people who have an

:16:34.:16:37.

opinion. There was no meat on the bones. What he said was great, but

:16:38.:16:43.

nobody knows how he will do it. Would this make you more likely to

:16:44.:16:47.

vote for him? Yes, now I've listened to him properly. With Tony Blair, I

:16:48.:16:54.

never liked the blokes, but I voted for him because he was the better

:16:55.:16:59.

option. Now I have listened to him, I will be carrying on voting Labour.

:17:00.:17:05.

All in all, a positive verdict for Mr Corbyn's first speech in his

:17:06.:17:07.

second leadership term. Joining us is Phil Collins

:17:08.:17:10.

from the Times - a former speech writer for Tony Blair

:17:11.:17:13.

and Paul Mason, broadcaster Good evening. Is it sellable, what

:17:14.:17:27.

you heard today? No. One of the problems with the proposition Jeremy

:17:28.:17:31.

Corbyn put out, was that every single clip had Jeremy Corbyn in it.

:17:32.:17:37.

Leadership is a big problem. The speech itself was better than he'd

:17:38.:17:43.

done before, and lots in it was entirely unobjectionable. I don't

:17:44.:17:47.

mind that it's vague at this stage in the Parliament, as every leader

:17:48.:17:52.

is vague at this stage. But I wonder whether a speech that could have

:17:53.:17:58.

been delivered by Ed Miliband without Ed Balls' restraining

:17:59.:18:02.

influence, whether that is sellable now when it wasn't sellable a few

:18:03.:18:08.

years ago, I very much doubt it has changed. The salespeople will be

:18:09.:18:14.

650000 and rising Labour members. I think we realise in that

:18:15.:18:22.

conference... Those members are very energised and enthusiastic, and many

:18:23.:18:27.

have been waiting many years to hear a Labour leaders say that free

:18:28.:18:31.

market economics is over because it leads to inequality and unjust Wars,

:18:32.:18:37.

and we are going to stop it. Into that pub will walk a labour

:18:38.:18:43.

activist, and they will and a pint and hopefully people will come out

:18:44.:18:52.

and vote for Corbyn. Was Corbyn your first choice for leader? He was

:18:53.:18:55.

meant to go in 2018 and be replaced by somebody else more dynamic. It is

:18:56.:19:02.

not so much meant to, but before the coup, that part around Lisa Nandi

:19:03.:19:08.

and Owen Smith were discussing about how they position themselves if

:19:09.:19:15.

Corbyn does a succession thing. That is stymied by... In fact, I think

:19:16.:19:22.

history has been made. That will not happen now. Is it possible to put

:19:23.:19:29.

together a leftist populist agenda. He's an outsider saying that we will

:19:30.:19:34.

smash the system, as does Donald Trump. Can left-wing politicians

:19:35.:19:39.

pull that off in the way that Donald Comp is pulling that off with

:19:40.:19:44.

Americans? In this country, the answer seems to be no. There is no

:19:45.:19:50.

warrant in British political history that this is the case. I cannot

:19:51.:19:56.

imagine how the people of Bury North, who voted conservative only

:19:57.:20:03.

months ago, will all of a sudden... How a labour activist will go into

:20:04.:20:06.

the pub and make them change their minds. They are going to vote Tory

:20:07.:20:12.

because they will make up their own minds, and the notion that they will

:20:13.:20:17.

be enticed by a left-wing shopping list with no idea how he's going to

:20:18.:20:23.

do it, that credibility gap is something that Corbyn needs to

:20:24.:20:27.

address. How would you make it work? It's one thing you've got to go

:20:28.:20:34.

through, economic credibility, before that... That is conventional

:20:35.:20:43.

wisdom. He started talking about Bristol, Liverpool, Sadiq Khan. But

:20:44.:20:49.

I object to the idea that this is left-wing populism. No left-wing

:20:50.:20:55.

populist will have done what he did today, which was stand up and give

:20:56.:21:01.

that pro-migration, down the line... It is what Labour working class

:21:02.:21:05.

people do every day. They don't say, we understand your concerns over

:21:06.:21:13.

migration. They say, mate, you are wrong. It is not the migrant's

:21:14.:21:18.

fault, it is the boss' fault. Do you think that the argument over

:21:19.:21:25.

economic profitability -- credibility, has that all gone now?

:21:26.:21:31.

In the US, half the population seems to think you don't have to worry

:21:32.:21:36.

about rational argument. In a year when the Bank of England printed 50

:21:37.:21:44.

billion extra, to spend yet another ten on corporate bonds, that is 60%

:21:45.:21:49.

of the 100 billion a year that Corbyn wants to borrow and leveraged

:21:50.:21:54.

in with this national investment bank. I think we can explain way he

:21:55.:21:59.

would get this money from. You think you can print it, don't you? My view

:22:00.:22:06.

is that any objective observer of the relationship between fiscal and

:22:07.:22:11.

monetary policy says, you do borrow what you can and you do print what

:22:12.:22:17.

you can through the Bank of England. They are not saying that in Bury

:22:18.:22:22.

North. The idea that this revolutionary zeal will come to

:22:23.:22:26.

Britain and overtake Basingstoke, it is just not going to happen. When we

:22:27.:22:32.

look back on this in a few years and we see that Jeremy Corbyn got the

:22:33.:22:37.

entirely predictable 23% of the country... You are predicting 23%?

:22:38.:22:46.

We will have you both back! Thank you very much.

:22:47.:22:48.

The huge and troubled inquiry into child sexual exploitation,

:22:49.:22:50.

The legal counsel to the inquiry, Ben Emmerson has been suspended.

:22:51.:22:54.

But it seems the inquiry was concerned with aspects

:22:55.:22:58.

There have already been three changes of chair,

:22:59.:23:01.

What do we know about the relationship between Ben Emmerson

:23:02.:23:15.

and everyone else involved. Ben Emmerson is the most senior person

:23:16.:23:23.

on the enquiry. He has taken an active role in talking to a number

:23:24.:23:29.

of survivors groups in gaining their confidence and participation in the

:23:30.:23:33.

enquiry. There have been previous reports of friction. The Times

:23:34.:23:38.

reported today he was actively considering his position, poised to

:23:39.:23:43.

resign, we were told. We heard there was differences in opinion between

:23:44.:23:49.

him and the enquiry's latest chair, Alexis J. She wants to keep the

:23:50.:23:55.

enquiry as it is. We were told Ben Emmerson is in favour of

:23:56.:23:59.

restructuring it to make it a bit smaller. We were told there were

:24:00.:24:05.

differences in opinion. At about 8:30pm today, the news came that Ben

:24:06.:24:10.

Emmerson had been suspended by the enquiry. They said, the enquiry had

:24:11.:24:16.

recently become very concerned about aspects of Ben Emmerson's leadership

:24:17.:24:20.

and he has been suspended. They added that if he does have concerns

:24:21.:24:25.

about the structure of the enquiry, he hadn't conveyed them. This is an

:24:26.:24:31.

enormous blow for the enquiry. The enquiry looks a bit jinxed. It keeps

:24:32.:24:38.

losing people. It is on its fourth chair in two years. The latest one

:24:39.:24:46.

is a social worker. Social workers... Survivors groups are

:24:47.:24:49.

threatening to pull out. It is an appalling mess. Ben Emmerson said

:24:50.:24:55.

tonight he would respond when he has had a chance to look at the

:24:56.:24:56.

allegations. Since the referendum,

:24:57.:25:00.

a lot of things have been said As the margin was so close,

:25:01.:25:02.

any of a huge number of groups or factors can reasonably be said

:25:03.:25:07.

to be decisive. But one proposition that has

:25:08.:25:09.

gained some currency is that it was northern,

:25:10.:25:11.

English working class votes Particularly, the folks who may feel

:25:12.:25:13.

they have lost jobs or industries or identity,

:25:14.:25:17.

and who wanted to be heard. Well, the Oxford academic,

:25:18.:25:19.

Danny Dorling, a social geographer, thinks that

:25:20.:25:22.

account has been overdone. He's a remainer, and he made this

:25:23.:25:24.

short film for us to explain why it was as much the middle classes

:25:25.:25:27.

who voted us out, as anyone. Tewkesbury is at the heart

:25:28.:25:39.

of leafy Southern educated And in so many ways,

:25:40.:25:41.

it is normally towns like this that hold the key to why Britain voted

:25:42.:25:48.

to leave the EU. In almost all of England,

:25:49.:25:52.

there was a narrow What people do not know is that 59%

:25:53.:26:01.

of all Leave voters Of those, 34% of all Leave voters

:26:02.:26:07.

were social Class A and B, Only 17% of all Leave voters

:26:08.:26:15.

were skilled manual workers. The vote to leave Europe was largely

:26:16.:26:25.

a middle-class English vote. Professionals were the only social

:26:26.:26:35.

class group to vote the majority 57% across the UK but they

:26:36.:26:38.

were such a large group of voters and turnout among them

:26:39.:26:46.

was so high that they also constituted the largest

:26:47.:26:48.

block of Leave voters. The Brexit vote has been

:26:49.:26:50.

unfairly blamed on the poor. Geographers divide the UK North

:26:51.:26:55.

and South, with a line that runs all the way from the Wash

:26:56.:26:58.

right down to the Severn. Below that line, lay 52%

:26:59.:27:03.

of all Leave voters. There are few places in the South

:27:04.:27:10.

such as London and Oxford and Cheltenham, where house prices

:27:11.:27:16.

are high and rents are high and you have to be doing

:27:17.:27:18.

well to be able to live there and in those places,

:27:19.:27:21.

the majority voted to Remain. Across the rest of the South

:27:22.:27:24.

of England, a narrow majority of people voted to leave

:27:25.:27:27.

in almost every place. And it is not just the middle

:27:28.:27:33.

classes who voted for Brexit. A common myth has sprung up

:27:34.:27:36.

that it was the lower classes, especially northern English voters

:27:37.:27:39.

who swung the pendulum That it mattered this

:27:40.:27:42.

much is fantasy. There is a caricature of elderly

:27:43.:27:50.

voters, an affluent generation of pensioners, voting out

:27:51.:27:53.

the hopes of the young. But, in fact, since 2012,

:27:54.:27:57.

the life expectancy of elderly women It got worse in 2013 and in 2015

:27:58.:28:01.

we had one of the largest rises in mortality that we have had

:28:02.:28:09.

since the Second World War. If we wanted a health service funded

:28:10.:28:13.

at the levels they have in Germany, we would actually have to spend

:28:14.:28:21.

an extra billion pounds every week The old have not been doing well

:28:22.:28:24.

in the UK in recent years. It is hardly surprising

:28:25.:28:32.

then that older voters, more dependent on the health

:28:33.:28:37.

and care services, found the ?350 Economically, in the 1970s,

:28:38.:28:40.

the UK was one of the most equal large countries in Europe before it

:28:41.:28:51.

entered what is now the EU. Tewkesbury may look like a chocolate

:28:52.:28:54.

box setting, but like any English town of this size,

:28:55.:29:03.

it is socially divided. It has its rich enclaves

:29:04.:29:07.

and its poor enclaves. The UK is the most economically

:29:08.:29:11.

unequal country in Europe, so perhaps it is not surprising

:29:12.:29:17.

that it is the first country All is not well here,

:29:18.:29:20.

the best-off 10% of people Nowhere else in Europe do

:29:21.:29:25.

the best-off 10% take so much and half of that is taken

:29:26.:29:33.

by the best-off 1%. Middle England is not a happy place,

:29:34.:29:38.

it is not a healthy place. It has been pulled apart by more

:29:39.:29:42.

than three decades of growing inequality, when push became shove,

:29:43.:29:46.

a narrow majority across all of average England voted

:29:47.:29:51.

for the only apparent antiestablishment

:29:52.:29:54.

offer on the table. As does D'Maris Coffman

:29:55.:30:03.

a Senior Lecturer in Economics What did you think of what Danny was

:30:04.:30:23.

saying? I agree. We need to get away from the idea that the Northern

:30:24.:30:30.

working classes are to blame. It is necessary to unpick this vote and

:30:31.:30:34.

understand regional differences and ask whether it makes sense to

:30:35.:30:39.

ascribe this simply to the Sunderland vote and the shock of

:30:40.:30:43.

that and look for causes in the north. I am concerned about two

:30:44.:30:49.

things, one is it is not clear what middle-class means in England,

:30:50.:30:54.

everyone from a hairdresser to a hedge fund manager will say they are

:30:55.:31:00.

middle class. He is suggesting this is a question of winners and losers

:31:01.:31:04.

which is a way of reframing class and I wonder if that gets us as far

:31:05.:31:12.

as we might think. That is true. What is middle-class? I have put a B

:31:13.:31:22.

and C1 together, junior professionals. The key thing is that

:31:23.:31:27.

there is a large group of people and the turnout was high so it really

:31:28.:31:33.

did matter. Whatever the result was, there were more voters, but let us

:31:34.:31:41.

be clear, the polling evidence, a BC one, 50 7%, the others 62% lead. You

:31:42.:31:49.

can see why the world has captured this narrative -- Leave. Of those

:31:50.:31:58.

who voted, the middle classes very large, the turnout is very large and

:31:59.:32:04.

their key thing is if a few more of the middle class had voted Remain it

:32:05.:32:10.

would have been Remain. There was the lack of support in comfortable

:32:11.:32:14.

middle England for Remain and Baul was crucial. If you say that the is

:32:15.:32:21.

large, it is how well that plays with the equality argument. The idea

:32:22.:32:28.

that austerity is responsible for Brexit, it is worth understanding,

:32:29.:32:31.

it hit the ball hard in the south but in Scotland where life

:32:32.:32:41.

expectancy is the opposite, more people voted to Remain. They had a

:32:42.:32:51.

different enemy, it was London. Some people are not feeling like that,

:32:52.:32:56.

their children could not start a family and get a house. It is not

:32:57.:33:01.

the best way of slicing up the population. I do have a different

:33:02.:33:09.

explanation. I see it in terms of phrase and reactions to

:33:10.:33:12.

multiculturalism and reactions to modernity. I think what is revealing

:33:13.:33:18.

about the Ashcroft polls is that white Christians or 53% of them

:33:19.:33:28.

voted to leave, at 70% of Muslims, two thirds of Asians, 80% of blacks

:33:29.:33:33.

voted to remain, people who are not white English saw their futures in

:33:34.:33:43.

the EU. We see that very explicitly in the poll, people who consider

:33:44.:33:48.

themselves English, four at five wanted out. We have something

:33:49.:33:52.

similar to what is happening in the US, where you are seeing on the one

:33:53.:33:59.

hand, a resurgence of white nationalism. Is that class -based? I

:34:00.:34:09.

do not think it is. The irony in the US is that people tend to blame the

:34:10.:34:15.

Ku Klux Klan on the working classes but actually if you look at this

:34:16.:34:22.

sort of issues where the harder Brexit MPs are from, these are

:34:23.:34:25.

middle class people who have fantasies of an Anglo-Saxon pass,

:34:26.:34:29.

they see England as exceptional and different from Europe, they are

:34:30.:34:36.

subscribing to an idea that is just as exclusionary as the soccer

:34:37.:34:41.

hooligans. They are areas that have not done as well as London. They are

:34:42.:34:47.

being offered at continuation which does not look great. They are all

:34:48.:34:51.

voting for something which they are told will be better and they voted

:34:52.:34:58.

for the alternative which was not defined and it was a continuation of

:34:59.:35:03.

being the underdog, things being difficult, schools are not getting

:35:04.:35:17.

much better. In terms of inequality, I live in Lambeth, one of the most

:35:18.:35:19.

unequal bearers, 80% voted to Remain and in London, you may be better

:35:20.:35:25.

off. I am learning, you can cut it up in different ways, but there is

:35:26.:35:30.

nothing that explains all of it. What do you think of the way

:35:31.:35:35.

politicians are invoking their assumptions to say what sort of

:35:36.:35:40.

Brexit we should have? Is that making sense? We really still do not

:35:41.:35:47.

know. The interesting thing about this vote is how the money markets

:35:48.:35:53.

did not predicted nor the spread betting, we cannot be sure what the

:35:54.:35:58.

reason was for this and it is easy to say the public have said this or

:35:59.:36:04.

that, but there is no solid reason. What we can say, it is not a north

:36:05.:36:11.

and south divide, in large amounts, in the South of England, a lot of

:36:12.:36:15.

people voted to leave and they were crucial. Thank you both very much.

:36:16.:36:18.

Let's go back in time forty years, to a time when people wore corduroys

:36:19.:36:22.

and believed in peace, love and the Age of Aquarius.

:36:23.:36:24.

No, it's not more from the Labour Conference.

:36:25.:36:26.

I'm talking about the era of groovy, far-out Prog Rock, when mastodons

:36:27.:36:29.

of music like Pink Floyd, Emerson Lake and Palmer,

:36:30.:36:32.

and Jethro Tull stalked the earth - and sold buckets of records.

:36:33.:36:37.

The scene was often disparaged by the critics -

:36:38.:36:39.

and that went for the fancy cover art of the music, too.

:36:40.:36:42.

However, designers like Roger Dean, responsible for the artwork

:36:43.:36:44.

of classic Yes albums, have had the last laugh.

:36:45.:36:48.

His pieces sell for up to 5 million dollars.

:36:49.:36:52.

On the eve of an exhibition at the Trading Boundaries gallery

:36:53.:36:55.

in Sussex, Stephen Smith pulled on his loon pants and

:36:56.:36:57.

People will think of Roger's work first, I think, if you mentioned

:36:58.:37:08.

progressive rock artwork, they would go to Roger

:37:09.:37:10.

I thought nothing could be more exciting than being involved in

:37:11.:37:23.

designing the future, and that was a huge motivation

:37:24.:37:26.

What was amazing at that time is that the future

:37:27.:37:32.

At this gallery, and cafe, and furniture shop in the

:37:33.:37:43.

Ashdown Forest, we found the great draughtsman of the future, Roger

:37:44.:37:47.

As a young artist, he was offered the chance to do artwork

:37:48.:37:55.

for the rock leviathans Yes, or Led Zeppelin.

:37:56.:37:56.

Who would you say your influences are?

:37:57.:38:04.

I see a little bit of Salvador Dali maybe, here and there.

:38:05.:38:09.

I wouldn't really acknowledge any particular artist as an influence.

:38:10.:38:14.

I was from aged 12 to 14 in Hong Kong.

:38:15.:38:17.

Chinese watercolour, traditional Chinese watercolour landscape,

:38:18.:38:20.

Before there was video, rock music or at least prog rock was about art

:38:21.:38:49.

and the enigmatic geniuses who made it hid behind opaque artwork and a

:38:50.:38:57.

curtain of care. We were not the Beatles any more, we were all

:38:58.:39:02.

unknown, the band name often was not on the album sleeve. I am not quite

:39:03.:39:08.

sure how we got into that particular frame of mind were somehow the audio

:39:09.:39:13.

and visual and lyrical message was greater than the people but you can

:39:14.:39:19.

walk into a room of 200 people with Genesis after having done a concert

:39:20.:39:24.

with them and the members of the band could walk in and be unknown

:39:25.:39:28.

because people did not know what they looked like. It took me years

:39:29.:39:35.

to work out who Pink Floyd where! Hard to imagine kids, but this was

:39:36.:39:40.

also before e-mail and misunderstandings could arise

:39:41.:39:43.

between band and sleeve artist. The band were permanently argumentative

:39:44.:39:49.

and part of the reason why the band was called Fragile, was because they

:39:50.:39:57.

were going to fall apart. It was confused by Ian Howell and somehow

:39:58.:40:05.

it was the earth that was fragile. I have a bit of a bomb cell for you

:40:06.:40:10.

because Bill said that you misunderstood Fragile. I did

:40:11.:40:19.

actually. Yes, a whole bunch of their album titles were about the

:40:20.:40:28.

fragility of the band. Like prog rock itself, Roger Dean has never

:40:29.:40:31.

been a darling of the arts establishment that he would not have

:40:32.:40:37.

it any other way. I am not really part of what they do. I do not do

:40:38.:40:42.

what they do and one of the joys of working with musicians is that they

:40:43.:40:48.

celebrate and enjoy musicianship, the craft of the musician and the

:40:49.:40:55.

creativity of the musician and that is not really obvious in the art

:40:56.:40:58.

world and I would feel lost without that.

:40:59.:41:03.

But we learned this week that the Labour leader now

:41:04.:41:09.

has his own colouring book dedicated to him by the faithful.

:41:10.:41:14.

It's been on sale at the Momentum event just outside

:41:15.:41:16.

So with apologies to Andrew Lloyd Webber,

:41:17.:41:19.

we leave you with Jeremy and his amazing

:41:20.:41:21.

Anyone Who Had A Heart I closed my eyes, drew back the curtain. To see

:41:22.:41:44.

for certain, what I thought I knew. Far far away, someone was weeping.

:41:45.:41:55.

But the world was sleeping. Any dream Will do. I wore my coat. With

:41:56.:42:07.

golden lining. Bright colours shining. Wonderful and new. And in

:42:08.:42:22.

the East. The John was breaking. But the world was

:42:23.:42:25.

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Evan Davis. Features include the horrors of Aleppo from inside a hospital and the latest on the abuse inquiry. Plus Jeremy Corbyn speaks, prog rock returns, and did the working class really vote for Brexit?


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