Browse content similar to 23/11/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
That frustrating feeling, when you're chasing that thing | :00:00. | :00:07. | |
Well, folks, that's Britain trying to get the deficit down to hit | :00:08. | :00:14. | |
The OBR forecasts that debt will rise from 84.2% of GDP | :00:15. | :00:21. | |
last year to 87.3% this year, peaking at 90.2% in 2017-18. | :00:22. | :00:36. | |
Yes, tens of billions more borrowing than planned. | :00:37. | :00:37. | |
After years of austerity, we're way off solving | :00:38. | :00:43. | |
We'll look at the challenging plan to hit the new targets, and ask how | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
The debt fell last month - everyone expected it to rise. | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
The forecasts for growth were low, but they are higher. | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
Consumer confidence and retail sales are at record levels. | :00:57. | :00:58. | |
So my view is, by and large, the Chancellor has to plan for the | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
worst, but I think the general expectation is, we can do a lot | :01:02. | :01:04. | |
The Cabinet Minister responsible for public spending will give | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
us his excuses for failing to clear the deficit, and his Labour shadow | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
And, as the debt keeps building, are the voters | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
I think it's a small price to pay, to be honest with you, | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
We are a resilient country. We are resilient people. | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
We'll get there. We'll fight. | :01:27. | :01:27. | |
And the killer of Jo Cox gets a full life sentence. | :01:28. | :01:33. | |
Her friend and colleague, Alison McGovern, talks to us | :01:34. | :01:35. | |
Every few years, we get a budget or Autumn Statement | :01:36. | :01:50. | |
that has to break bad news to the nation. | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
Be in no doubt, today was one of those occasions. | :01:54. | :01:55. | |
It looks like we are going to be a long way from where | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
we thought we'd be at the end of the parliament. | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
The forecasts have had to be revised, and the Government | :02:03. | :02:04. | |
is about ?17 billion poorer in 2020 than it was anticipating. | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
What a stubborn old beast borrowing is turning out to be. | :02:09. | :02:14. | |
In view of the uncertainty facing the economy and in the face | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
of slower growth forecasts, we no longer seek to deliver | :02:18. | :02:19. | |
The Prime Minister and I, Mr Speaker, remain firmly committed | :02:20. | :02:31. | |
to seeing the public finances return to balance as soon as practicable, | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
While leaving enough flexibility to support | :02:36. | :02:47. | |
In other words, fiscal control means what the Chancellor says it | :02:48. | :02:56. | |
will mean, no running commentary, just trust the Government | :02:57. | :02:58. | |
Now, we don't need to run a government surplus, | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
so don't worry about that target being kicked into the distance. | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
The real problem is the lack of a plan for the less ambitious | :03:08. | :03:10. | |
Frankly, for me, it is today that we have to declare the idea | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
of cutting spending to balance the books can | :03:17. | :03:18. | |
Welfare cuts have been put into reverse today - | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
Extra money has been thrown at prisons today. | :03:24. | :03:30. | |
The cuts there have gone too far as well. | :03:31. | :03:32. | |
This nails a point I'm trying to make. | :03:33. | :03:35. | |
The day-to-day spending of government departments, | :03:36. | :03:37. | |
measured per capita, and how it is planned | :03:38. | :03:39. | |
The Government still hopes to shrink spending. | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
If you look at it accumulating over the parliament, | :03:44. | :03:45. | |
actually about a 7% reduction over to 2021. | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
Now look at what they've achieved this year. | :03:51. | :03:52. | |
Can they really say this is the deficit-reduction plan | :03:53. | :04:00. | |
if they've overspent this year and not managed to cut? | :04:01. | :04:03. | |
The truth is, we have a stubborn deficit and salami slicing spending | :04:04. | :04:06. | |
no longer looks plausible as a solution. | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
Right, the second story of the day is how we got into that, | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
At least that's what the OBR, the Office for Budget | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
While the OBR is clear that it cannot predict the deal | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
the UK will strike with the EU, its current view is that | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
the referendum decision means that potential growth over the forecast | :04:30. | :04:32. | |
period is likely to be 2.4 percentage points lower | :04:33. | :04:35. | |
than would have otherwise been the case. | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
Taking 2.4 % out of our economy doesn't sound like much, | :04:42. | :04:44. | |
but that is the OBR view of the cost of Brexit. | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
When I said there was ?17 billion of bad news in its forecasts | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
for the last year of the parliament, about 15 billion is | :04:54. | :04:56. | |
So - the declining fiscal position and the EU debate are | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
Our political editor, Nick Watt, has been soaking it up | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
On a chilly autumn day, the nation's spirits were momentarily lifted when | :05:05. | :05:22. | |
Philip Hammond found a spare ?7.6 million to save a jewel in the | :05:23. | :05:31. | |
nation's heritage. If Philip Hammond had Jane Austen in mind, some may | :05:32. | :05:34. | |
have seen his Autumn Statement as more reminiscent of a dark genre. To | :05:35. | :05:40. | |
them, it was the revenge of the experts. | :05:41. | :05:48. | |
We thought we had seen them off in the referendum. I think the people | :05:49. | :05:54. | |
in this country have had enough of experts. But today, experts have | :05:55. | :06:01. | |
hovered over the statement, the warning by Robert Chote that the | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
cost of Brexit would account for half of the ?122 billion increase in | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
government borrowing, setting the framework for Philip Hammond's first | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
big event as Chancellor. Leave supporters were not happy. I think | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
the OBR is extremely reasonable in the approach it has taken, but | :06:22. | :06:28. | |
wrong. It assumes when we leave the European Union we will apply the | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
same tariffs to the rest of the world as we currently apply. That | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
would be a lunatic thing to do. Half of the benefit of leaving the EU is | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
that we can set our own tariffs. Until the Government has developed | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
its negotiating strategy and explained it, the OBR can only | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
operate on a status quo assumption. They are perfectly rational in what | :06:50. | :06:52. | |
they are doing, but it is not what the reality will be. And about the | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
experts? There was a great line, there is nothing so absurd that it | :06:58. | :07:00. | |
has not been said by some philosopher. I think suspicion of | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
experts goes back into antiquity and it is a very healthy thing to have. | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
Experts, soothsayers, astrologers are all in very much the same | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
category. Remain supporters say the Brexit vote hangs over everything. | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
There are three problems that the Autumn Statement is trying to | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
address. Brexit, Brexit and Brexit. Whether it is to do with business | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
investment, trading prospects, or the kind of austerity that is now | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
going to be continuing because of the hit to revenue and tax receipts | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
we are going to see. It is going to cloud everything, no matter what | :07:36. | :07:38. | |
government department you are in, no matter what area of the public | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
services. From the moment he was appointed Chancellor, Philip Hammond | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
always knew he would have to use this Autumn Statement to reset the | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
economic dial after the Brexit vote. But the scale of the challenge was | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
laid out in stark terms by the independent experts of the Office | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
for Budget Responsibility, who said that by 2021, the UK's 2 trillion | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
economy will be noticeably smaller than it would have been without the | :08:05. | :08:07. | |
referendum and there will be a slowing in the pace of export and | :08:08. | :08:13. | |
import growth over ten years. In a break with his predecessor, the | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
Chancellor nodded to John Maynard Keynes, by announcing he would throw | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
a protective arm around the economy by borrowing an extra 23 billion | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
over the next five years to fund new investment projects. To some, this | :08:28. | :08:34. | |
had a familiar feel. It is a sort of parallel universe, one of those | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
sliding doors moments when you think, back at the last election, we | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
were saying, as Labour, we would come in and balance the current | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
budget, get it into surplus over the lifetime of the Parliament. It looks | :08:48. | :08:50. | |
as though Philip Hammond and the Conservatives are not even going to | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
be able to do that. So, one story in our house did come to an end today. | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
George Osborne's grand plan to fix the roof by balancing the books was | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
laid to rest, at least for the moment. The deficit will still be | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
here until well into the next decade, and Britain's overall debt | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
mountain is creeping ever upwards. So, modest measures today for the | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
so-called Jams, people just about managing, and the Chancellor offered | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
no guarantees beyond 2020 on two landmark spending pledges, the | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
triple lock for pensioners and the ring fencing of the NHS budget. One | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
Tory believes the party's fundamental goals remain on track. | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
The trajectory set out by George Osborne has not at the precise time | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
frame, but has been the right one. And Mr Hammond is continuing with | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
that. The Tory principle of sound money retains its validity. Perhaps | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
the plotline in our house will surprise us again. The experts have | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
left open the possibility that the economy will eventually rebound. The | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
fate of a generation of politicians will depend on how the story ends. | :09:58. | :10:03. | |
David Gauke, the Chancellor's right-hand man | :10:04. | :10:04. | |
Good evening to you. This 2.4% shrinkage in the economy, relative | :10:05. | :10:17. | |
to if we had voted to remain in the referendum, is that the kind of | :10:18. | :10:20. | |
figure you think is reasonable, a sensible figure to be planning? I | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
think we have an independent body that makes the forecasts and I think | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
it is sensible for the Government to work on the basis that the | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
independent body has got it right. It is not out of line with most | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
independent commentators. The Bank of England has a more pessimistic | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
view on these things. So, I think we have to work on the basis that the | :10:43. | :10:46. | |
OBR is right. It is their analysis, not ours, but we work on that basis. | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
It is not that out of line with what the Treasury was saying the cost of | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
Brexit was going to be before the referendum. Everybody said that was | :10:56. | :11:01. | |
Project Fear. You must feel a little vindicated by seeing the OBR, | :11:02. | :11:04. | |
independently, coming out after the referendum and coming up with a | :11:05. | :11:07. | |
figure that wasn't quite as pessimistic as the Treasury one, but | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
in the same ballpark? Flattley, I would rather we were in a position | :11:12. | :11:14. | |
where the economy was growing very strongly. -- frankly. That is more | :11:15. | :11:20. | |
important than the debate about who was right over what. But I don't | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
think anybody should be surprised. Given that there is some | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
uncertainty, a transitional period we would go through, that there | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
would be a hit to growth of some scale, and the OBR have made their | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
assessment. Some of your colleagues are saying this is too pessimistic, | :11:37. | :11:39. | |
some of them have had less kind words about the OBR, these guys are | :11:40. | :11:46. | |
Remainers, and all of that kind of stuff, would you tell them to shut | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
up and we have to accept what the OBR says? You showed a clip from | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
Jacob, and also from Iain Duncan Smith, and he said, well, Government | :11:56. | :11:58. | |
has to prepare for the worst as well. In the end, as a Government, | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
we have had to respond to what the OBR says. People are entitled to | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
their opinion. I think in a year or two's time, we can look back and say | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
he was right or wrong. One of the very striking things is that if you | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
want to help the Jams, just about managing, the people who aren't even | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
managing, Brexit, if we believe the OBR, swamps everything you're doing, | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
doesn't it? You can tinker around the edges, but there is this great | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
17 billion or so, 15 billion, caused by Brexit, which is so much more | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
significant. I wonder why you don't say to those people, wouldn't you | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
like to think again about Brexit? You are tempting me into rerunning | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
the arguments about the referendum. We have a referendum, I was on the | :12:45. | :12:50. | |
Remain side, but we lost. If I remember rightly, on the eve of the | :12:51. | :12:53. | |
referendum, I think you made the point that the arguments were | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
brought out to the British people about the economic risks, but also | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
in terms of issues of immigration, and the argument were made, the | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
British people made a decision, and we have to respect that and | :13:07. | :13:09. | |
implement it. That is where we are, rather than trying to pick up the | :13:10. | :13:17. | |
scab, pick up the wound and reopen that argument. Let's talk about the | :13:18. | :13:24. | |
budget surplus target. This is a poster used during the last | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
parliament. It was actually used in 2014, I think. Labour isn't | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
learning, Labour still plan to increase debt by an extra ?3200 per | :13:35. | :13:40. | |
person. We were trying to do the calculations. I don't know how that | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
was populated, but 2018-19, your debt will be an extra ?4600 per | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
person bigger than we were told at the general election, less than two | :13:51. | :13:59. | |
years ago. Now... Do you want to apologise to the British people for | :14:00. | :14:02. | |
the campaign that was run and the claims that were made at that time? | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
No. Let's look at... Your question is predicated upon the OBR numbers | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
that were set out today. You know, without wanting to go back to the | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
referendum, I do think we need to understand what has changed. We | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
fought the last general election with a pledge to get into surplus by | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
the end of the parliament. What the office of budget response ability | :14:26. | :14:28. | |
have said today is that we are not going to meet that pledge. They also | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
say, if you look through the numbers, but for their analysis of | :14:33. | :14:38. | |
the cost of Brexit, which would have delivered that in 2019-20, things | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
have changed, circumstances have changed. The question is, how does | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
the Government respond? In these new circumstances, you know, getting | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
back to John Maynard Keynes, the facts have changed, circumstances | :14:53. | :14:55. | |
have changed. Brexit is to blame? You would have made a surplus, but | :14:56. | :15:01. | |
for Brexit? That is what the OBR are saying today. You would have had a | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
small surplus at the end of the last election, and Brexit has more than | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
wipe that out? That is what the OBR are saying. | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
So you do not feel the need to apologise for the claims made? At | :15:15. | :15:22. | |
the time, people said it would be very difficult for you to meet | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
those. There is a sense now that Brexit is a bit of a cover for the | :15:27. | :15:30. | |
fact that you don't have the stomach to deliver some of the decisions it | :15:31. | :15:36. | |
would be necessary to make. As part of that OBR analysis today, what | :15:37. | :15:43. | |
they show is, although I am not a moment saying that all of the of | :15:44. | :15:50. | |
public finances is... But notwithstanding that, we still would | :15:51. | :15:53. | |
have made that 2019-20 surplus number. So the question... Why don't | :15:54. | :16:04. | |
you tell the people - you are accepting the OBR position. You need | :16:05. | :16:07. | |
to tell the public that we would have had a surplus, except that you | :16:08. | :16:12. | |
voted for Brexit. The Chancellor didn't spell that out that clearly | :16:13. | :16:18. | |
today. He seemed to be disguising it, speaking about difficult | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
circumstances, lower revenues and challenging growth. The public | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
should be told. The OBR have done that. This is OBR numbers, not | :16:27. | :16:32. | |
government numbers. This is what the OBR is saying. Brexit is the excuse? | :16:33. | :16:42. | |
It's not the excuse. We have made some difficult decisions on spending | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
which, over the course of the last six years, actually the spending | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
side of things have been delivered. We haven't overspent. Let's have a | :16:51. | :16:57. | |
look. This is the grass in my initial remarks. This is the way it | :16:58. | :17:01. | |
has to fall during the rest of this Parliament. It didn't fall this | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
year. We have held it flat, more or less. You are expecting it to fall | :17:08. | :17:13. | |
by 7% to meet these new, softer ambitions. How on earth are you | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
going to deliver 7% cuts in spending? If you can deliver 7%, why | :17:19. | :17:24. | |
can you not do it this year? You are now expecting to make this plan. It | :17:25. | :17:32. | |
is your plan for deficit reduction. One of the reasons why you have the | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
pro for what this year is that we have front-loaded the extra money | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
that has gone the NHS. But I come back to the point, look at what | :17:42. | :17:47. | |
we've done over the last six years. Over the last year, you haven't | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
managed to get spending down. The reason you have chucked money into | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
the NHS this year is that you knew the thing was imploding if you | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
didn't put money into it. It is in great difficulty. With the NHS, we | :18:01. | :18:08. | |
are putting in ?10 billion over this Parliament. We decided to front-load | :18:09. | :18:12. | |
it, and that is why that kink is there. The point I want to make is | :18:13. | :18:20. | |
that, rightly, people are making the point that you are not reducing the | :18:21. | :18:23. | |
deficit in the way that you said you would. That isn't because we have | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
failed to deliver the spending cuts we set out. You can go back to the | :18:29. | :18:34. | |
summer budget of 2010, we said, these are very, very difficult | :18:35. | :18:38. | |
spending cuts. We have delivered. Over that period of time, we have | :18:39. | :18:44. | |
seen eight out of ten children go to good or outstanding schools. Are you | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
really telling me you can get 7% out over the next five years? You didn't | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
mean to keep it flat this year. It had been intended to go down. This | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
was the easiest year of the parliament, and you missed it. | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
Everything is predicated on steeper falls than you failed to achieve | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
this year, and that is our deficit reduction plan. You can look at the | :19:09. | :19:15. | |
previous five years, where we successfully delivered on the | :19:16. | :19:24. | |
departmental spending reductions. It gets harder, not easier, as time | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
goes on. You have taken the low hanging fruit. Now you are going to | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
get 7% with none of the low hanging fruit left, because you have picked | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
it all in the last Parliament. Not necessarily. We are succeeding in | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
building up more of a culture of spending control. You can make | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
reforms to public services that bring long-term reforms. I used to | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
be involved in HMRC, and they have done some fundamental reforms, and | :19:54. | :20:00. | |
have reduced costs. They are collecting more in tax. In recent | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
years, they have improved customer services as well. I do believe that | :20:07. | :20:09. | |
public sector reform is possible, and you can get more for less. Thank | :20:10. | :20:12. | |
you very much indeed. Obviously, the Labour Party has not | :20:13. | :20:15. | |
been a supporter of the whole austerity strategy at all - | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
and takes the view Would we now be borrowing less, | :20:19. | :20:20. | |
if we had borrowed more Well, this was the jist | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
of the criticism of Today, we have seen the very people | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
the Prime Minister promised The Chancellor | :20:28. | :20:30. | |
has failed to break with The country remains unprepared | :20:31. | :20:33. | |
and ill-equipped to meet the challenges of Brexit, | :20:34. | :20:36. | |
and secure Britain's future After all the sacrifices, | :20:37. | :20:38. | |
after all the sacrifices people have made over the last six years, | :20:39. | :20:44. | |
I fear today's statement has laid the foundations for | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
more wasted years. Let's talk to Rebecca | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
Long-Bailey for Labour. She's Shadow Chief Secretary | :20:55. | :20:56. | |
to the Treasury. Do you think they have a plan | :20:57. | :21:08. | |
forgetting the deficit down? We haven't seen one so far. They said | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
they would eradicate the deficit by 2015. The figures we have seen today | :21:14. | :21:20. | |
have been absolutely shocking. Do you think it is plausible they can | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
cut spending in ways that are acceptable by the amount the OBR I | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
says they are going to to make the books add up? Some of the points to | :21:31. | :21:37. | |
note, and I was listening to your conversation with David, is that | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
there was a lot of emphasis on Brexit. Over the ?122 billion a | :21:44. | :21:51. | |
Mathilde deficit figure we are going to see by 2021, only part of that is | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
attributable to Brexit. The rest of it is as a result of the | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
government's mismanagement of finances. We don't think they have | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
set up our economy for the future. You agree that borrowing is too high | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
at the moment, and needs to come down. Not right away, but it has to | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
come down. And you don't need a surplus. That was an ambitious | :22:17. | :22:23. | |
target. Every government should aim for a surplus, but the strategy that | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
the government put forward wasn't achievable. We pointed that out at | :22:28. | :22:33. | |
the time. We are clearly borrowing way more than the surplus now. What | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
has to happen to get that down? We are either spending too much all the | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
tax too little. Which one do you think it is? There's a number of | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
factors involved. If Labour had been in power since 2010, we wouldn't be | :22:49. | :22:54. | |
in the situation we are in today, because we would have invested in | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
infrastructure and industry, and provided the higher paid jobs that | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
return to the Exchequer in taxes. We would have clamped down on tax | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
avoidance. There's very little in terms of action from the government | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
on that front. So you would have had more growth and more investment. You | :23:15. | :23:19. | |
would have borrowed more, and we would have less borrowing now as a | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
result. So we started with a higher level of borrowing that you are | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
comfortable with. -- venue were. What is your plan for eradicating a | :23:30. | :23:37. | |
surplus? Let's say you want to do it by 2025? What is your plan? Tax | :23:38. | :23:45. | |
increases? You separate your capital spending from your public spending, | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
which forms part of our fiscal credibility plan. In terms of public | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
spending, your tax receipts, I think we need a more efficient tax system. | :23:56. | :24:01. | |
A number of decisions that were taken by the government, such as | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
cutting capital corporate games tax, were not the right decisions to | :24:07. | :24:14. | |
take. The cuts in terms of Universal Credit in particular, who are sick | :24:15. | :24:28. | |
and disabled, there are more responsible tax decisions that you | :24:29. | :24:31. | |
can take. We would not have slashed the areas they have slashed so far. | :24:32. | :24:37. | |
We need a more progressive tax system. Not necessarily more tax, | :24:38. | :24:47. | |
but... Let me give you an example. There's a number of tax reliefs that | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
the government applied to a number of different groups. At the last | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
count, I asked for statistics from the government, and they had over | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
200 tax relief they could provide no economic data on at all. We do not | :25:02. | :25:07. | |
know if they are efficient or if they are helping individuals. We | :25:08. | :25:10. | |
need to assess our current tax base to make sure that is working | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
efficiently. Pension triple lock, Philip Hammond hinted that that | :25:17. | :25:25. | |
needed to be looked at. Would you also abandoned the pension triple | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
lock? I think it is shocking. Pensioners are being sold out by | :25:31. | :25:36. | |
this government. Pensions need to be looked at very carefully, because | :25:37. | :25:40. | |
people signed up to a social contract with the government. Some | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
women have had the goalposts moved. It's not acceptable. The government | :25:46. | :25:51. | |
needs to take a responsible approach and realise that people need to be | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
sustained in their old age. Another point is about social care. There | :25:56. | :26:01. | |
was nothing today about social care in the Autumn Statement, and I was | :26:02. | :26:04. | |
shocked because I know the government came under a lot of | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
pressure. If we are talking about care that is attributable to the | :26:10. | :26:16. | |
older generation, they have been sold out on this. Thank you very | :26:17. | :26:18. | |
much indeed. Thomas Mair, the killer of MP | :26:19. | :26:20. | |
Jo Cox, was given a whole-life The case details make grim reading - | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
the horrible specifics of the crime itself, | :26:25. | :26:27. | |
the descriptions of the weapons in his possession, | :26:28. | :26:29. | |
and his white supremacist ethos. Jo Cox's husband Brendan | :26:30. | :26:31. | |
called the murder "an act of terrorism" and said that, | :26:32. | :26:33. | |
while it was driven by hatred, it had instead created | :26:34. | :26:36. | |
an outpouring of love. He said he hopes her | :26:37. | :26:38. | |
death has meaning. Well, in a year of acrid political | :26:39. | :26:40. | |
discourse around the world, the meaning may lie in attempts | :26:41. | :26:42. | |
to reduce the poison. A few weeks ago, Jo was taken | :26:43. | :26:45. | |
from us, and our lives collapsed. It's still hard to comprehend | :26:46. | :26:55. | |
the magnitude of what happened in There may have been one act | :26:56. | :26:58. | |
of extreme cowardice on that day, Thomas Mair was found guilty | :26:59. | :27:05. | |
at almost exactly the same time Outside the Old Bailey, | :27:06. | :27:13. | |
Jo Cox's family welcomed the verdict The killing of Jo was a political | :27:14. | :27:20. | |
act, an act of terrorism, but in the history of such acts, | :27:21. | :27:30. | |
it was perhaps the most An act driven by hatred, | :27:31. | :27:33. | |
which instead has created An act designed to drive communities | :27:34. | :27:40. | |
apart, which has instead An act designed to silence a voice, | :27:41. | :27:47. | |
which instead has allowed millions Thomas Mair's house in Birstall | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
is a bleak place. Inside, he picked his victim | :27:53. | :27:58. | |
and researched how to kill her. When police searched | :27:59. | :28:02. | |
Thomas Mair's house here, they found it stuffed full | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
of far-right literature We also know that he | :28:07. | :28:08. | |
shouted "Britain First!" So to say that this had nothing | :28:09. | :28:14. | |
to do with politics is clearly absurd, | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
but what is the responsibility of any of our political discourse | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
for what happened here? Thomas Mair refused to answer that, | :28:25. | :28:28. | |
as well as all other questions. Do you belong to any | :28:29. | :28:34. | |
political parties? He offered no defence, | :28:35. | :28:36. | |
and refused to enter After the verdict, his request | :28:37. | :28:39. | |
to address the court What this trial and this | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
conviction have shown us is that there are some nasty, | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
poisonous undercurrents in British society - | :28:48. | :28:50. | |
but there always have been. Thomas Mair is not typical | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
of everybody who voted Leave. But amongst those who voted Leave, | :28:55. | :28:57. | |
there are some nasty currents. The police meticulously catalogued | :28:58. | :29:06. | |
Thomas Mair's obsessive hatred. For Jo Cox's family, her death meant | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
profound personal grief. But, they said, that shouldn't | :29:11. | :29:13. | |
obscure the political The murder of a sitting | :29:14. | :29:17. | |
MP would have stopped the nation at any time, | :29:18. | :29:21. | |
but Jo Cox was killed towards the end of a frantic, excited, | :29:22. | :29:24. | |
often angry referendum campaign. To reflect on the nature | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
of our political system, the way we talk to each other, | :29:30. | :29:36. | |
the way we treat opponents. Now her killer has been brought | :29:37. | :29:39. | |
to justice, how much, We live in quite difficult | :29:40. | :29:42. | |
political times. You've seen Brexit, you've seen | :29:43. | :29:52. | |
the election of Trump. I think there is quite | :29:53. | :29:56. | |
a feeling of the people vs the establishment, | :29:57. | :29:59. | |
vs the politicians. But this was a horrific one-off | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
event, and I don't think there are particular lessons | :30:04. | :30:07. | |
to learn from it, except that people obviously have to take care | :30:08. | :30:10. | |
of their staff's safety and their own safety, | :30:11. | :30:12. | |
and act sensibly. Mercifully, these things happen | :30:13. | :30:17. | |
very, very irregularly. You've got to keep a reasonably calm | :30:18. | :30:37. | |
head, but also look at the underlying causes of volatility. I | :30:38. | :30:39. | |
do think social media is part of this. We have, as it were, got in | :30:40. | :30:43. | |
touch with our inner barbarians through social media. Lots of us | :30:44. | :30:50. | |
thought that we had some rather strange and perhaps unpalatable | :30:51. | :30:53. | |
opinions, but probably nobody else did. We have now discovered lots of | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
other people, millions of other people have the same strange and | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
unpalatable opinions. It has given encouragement, it has given strength | :31:02. | :31:02. | |
to the morale of the barbarians. means the end of | :31:03. | :31:05. | |
the immediate trauma. I will channel my energy | :31:06. | :31:08. | |
into ensuring that And, as a family, we will respond | :31:09. | :31:10. | |
with strength, love, Strength and love for each other, | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
and positivity and enthusiasm for the principles Jo believed in - | :31:16. | :31:22. | |
compassion, tolerance, and acceptance, understanding, | :31:23. | :31:24. | |
and a determination to continue The media attention | :31:25. | :31:26. | |
will now disperse. However, Jo Cox's death | :31:27. | :31:36. | |
is unlikely to be forgotten I'm now joined in the studio | :31:37. | :31:39. | |
by one of Jo Cox's closest friends in Parliament, | :31:40. | :31:51. | |
Labour MP Alison McGovern. Thanks for coming in. It was a | :31:52. | :32:01. | |
predictable verdict. What was your reaction when you heard? I suppose a | :32:02. | :32:09. | |
sense that it's over and that's a positive thing in some way. But | :32:10. | :32:15. | |
absolute determination that Jo's legacy, it's not about how she died, | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
it's about how she lived. Jo was somebody who approached the world | :32:20. | :32:25. | |
with love and compassion, and who had a lesson for us all in how to | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
get things done in politics, which was not to work from the sidelines, | :32:31. | :32:39. | |
but for enthusiastically fighting for what you believe in. There are a | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
lot of people, in the Labour Party and across all political parties, | :32:44. | :32:46. | |
who are thinking tonight about how they can be more like her. In a way, | :32:47. | :32:50. | |
you have answered a question of how we should think of the murder. Is | :32:51. | :32:54. | |
there something significant about this man? If he had any aim in his | :32:55. | :32:59. | |
act, he has totally failed. That hate that clearly drove him, in some | :33:00. | :33:06. | |
sense, was met with this massive outpouring of love. You know, the | :33:07. | :33:10. | |
messages that have been received by everybody, the determination that | :33:11. | :33:16. | |
the British public showed, that we would say this is not what our | :33:17. | :33:20. | |
country is really like. Actually, we are people that listen to each other | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
and who are full of acceptance for each other, and the value diversity. | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
So, in fact, the outcome has been the complete opposite of what he | :33:30. | :33:32. | |
might have hoped for. There was that outpouring of love, everybody | :33:33. | :33:37. | |
remembers those days very clearly. Has anything changed? Do you think, | :33:38. | :33:44. | |
in fact, people have the discourse? We have been reminded of how not to | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
do it? Or do you think the discourse, if anything, has got more | :33:49. | :33:53. | |
virulent and acrid over the year? I think it was actually George | :33:54. | :33:56. | |
Osborne, when he cancelled his speech at Mansion House to pay | :33:57. | :34:01. | |
tribute to Jo, said she had changed government policy. I think that is a | :34:02. | :34:05. | |
demonstration of what can be achieved if you stand up for what | :34:06. | :34:10. | |
you believe in. I know lots of people who ask me about Jo and who | :34:11. | :34:15. | |
want to follow her example. We will all take forward the causes she | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
believes in, whether it is Rachel Reeves leading on loneliness, on | :34:20. | :34:24. | |
Syria, Andrew, in the film, and I will continue to fight for civilian | :34:25. | :34:31. | |
protection. The world can be changed and I and others will not give in to | :34:32. | :34:34. | |
a counsel of despair. We will continue to stand for the principles | :34:35. | :34:38. | |
Jo believed in. The politics of hate has been a big issue. In the States, | :34:39. | :34:43. | |
it has been an issue, an increase in hate attacks, the Trump election has | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
led to more division. When it comes to that, do you see it in a way that | :34:48. | :34:53. | |
some of the people in that piece did, as a particular feature of what | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
we call the alt-right, the extreme right, or, in as far as it is a | :35:00. | :35:03. | |
problem, it goes a bit more widely? I think there is an old story here. | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
At times of economic trouble, at times of difficulty, it is very easy | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
for some in politics to exploit the fear and insecurity that people feel | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
and say, no, your troubles are not because of economic saw the | :35:17. | :35:20. | |
Government, they are because people just like you, who happened to be | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
foreigners, or whatever the language is that they use. It is incumbent on | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
those of us who believe that people are basically, underneath it all, | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
the same, and have the same hopes and dreams and aspirations, to stand | :35:34. | :35:36. | |
up for what we believe in and say, actually, that hate will not get us | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
anywhere. That is not who we are. It is not what we believe in. We do | :35:42. | :35:45. | |
things differently. We will all take care of each other. That, in the | :35:46. | :35:50. | |
end, is the answer to that hate. We stand up to it with love. A very | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
quick one. MP safety became a bit of an issue after this. Has anything | :35:56. | :36:02. | |
changed on that? Have measures being taken behind the scenes? Of course. | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
In fact, what was shocking was that Jo was in the place where most of us | :36:08. | :36:13. | |
would feel we were most safe, in the heart of our constituencies. Of | :36:14. | :36:17. | |
course, people have thought through security and safety. But the police | :36:18. | :36:20. | |
and others are very good and make sure that us and, more importantly, | :36:21. | :36:27. | |
our staff are really safe. They take care of us well. | :36:28. | :36:29. | |
These occasions tend to be very political - | :36:30. | :36:32. | |
it's tempting to say that today's was less so. | :36:33. | :36:35. | |
But, in a funny sort of way, that is politics too. | :36:36. | :36:40. | |
The Chancellor, wanting to adopt what looks like a more sober tone. | :36:41. | :36:43. | |
He managed a few jokes, although perhaps aimed | :36:44. | :36:46. | |
at Westminster and unlikely to get the folks of Middlesbrough guffawing | :36:47. | :36:48. | |
So, how is the public feeling right now at our post-Brexit prospects? | :36:49. | :36:54. | |
Katie Razzall is in Middlesbrough, as it happens - Middlesbrough South, | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
a Labour constituency that the Tories might hope to gain. | :37:00. | :37:05. | |
She has been listening to how people are feeling about the future. | :37:06. | :37:13. | |
I have been here now for about four weeks. Basically boarding and | :37:14. | :37:23. | |
plastering. Tough work? Yeah. Jonathan Skelton moved into our | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
strength after he lost his job, when the steelworks closed at Redcar. | :37:28. | :37:33. | |
When I was employed at SSI, you didn't have to worry, you have a | :37:34. | :37:36. | |
regular wage. Now it is much more difficult. I have two kids to | :37:37. | :37:44. | |
support. You continue to worry about money. I'll go without, if it means | :37:45. | :37:50. | |
my kids have another. In amongst the younger students, he and a group of | :37:51. | :37:56. | |
redundant steelworkers were being retrained. All of them supported | :37:57. | :38:02. | |
Brexit. How many of you are voting Out? According to George Osborne, we | :38:03. | :38:06. | |
are supposed to be in a recession now, not a depression. All of the | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
scaremongering, the country is thriving, as far as I can see. In | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
2014, the OBR forecast growth to slow... This radio is usually tuned | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
to music. Today we tended to politics. All of a sudden they can | :38:20. | :38:25. | |
produce billions of pounds, one minute they are telling us they have | :38:26. | :38:29. | |
no money to do anything with, then they invest ?23 billion on | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
something. What are they take us for, fools? The stark predictions of | :38:35. | :38:38. | |
the cost Brexit fall on deaf ears here. Good news for the | :38:39. | :38:41. | |
Conservatives, Jeremy Corbyn and his team are not popular with his | :38:42. | :38:47. | |
one-time Labour voter. I will not vote Labour again, as long as they | :38:48. | :38:49. | |
are in charge. Theresa May shows you she's thinking of you, do you think | :38:50. | :38:56. | |
you could go her way? Yes, 100%. I didn't think I would ever say that. | :38:57. | :39:00. | |
Even in a place traditionally considered a Labour heartland, there | :39:01. | :39:03. | |
are seats that the Conservatives want to win. One of the | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
Middlesbrough constituencies is high on their target list for the next | :39:09. | :39:11. | |
general election. It is voters hear the Government needs to convince if | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
it wants a real majority next time. The end of the rainbow was right | :39:17. | :39:19. | |
over Redcar. My thought was, Redcar needs a pot of gold. It is a | :39:20. | :39:27. | |
volunteer group, we have taken on many of the gardens the council used | :39:28. | :39:33. | |
to do. In a region hard-hit by cuts to public services, the Chancellor | :39:34. | :39:36. | |
today talked up job creation in the north-east. But that hasn't filtered | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
through around here. There are people that are really struggling | :39:41. | :39:45. | |
because there are few jobs, a lot of them are part-time jobs, and a lot | :39:46. | :39:52. | |
of them are low paid jobs. They are not permanent jobs, either. When you | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
saw Theresa May on the steps of Downing Street, and heard what she | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
said, did you believe her? I wanted to believe her. But the people of | :40:01. | :40:07. | |
the north-east believe that we are a neglected area and Tayside | :40:08. | :40:17. | |
especially that. -- Teesside. Who doesn't like getting hit by swords? | :40:18. | :40:24. | |
It keeps me fit. There are no cuts here, strictly foil. The Chancellor | :40:25. | :40:28. | |
talked about a resilient economy, despite gloomy forecasts. But | :40:29. | :40:31. | |
uncertainty is hitting home. A bit concerned about my job. There are | :40:32. | :40:39. | |
cuts coming in where I work. They are focused on saving money, because | :40:40. | :40:45. | |
the income coming in has started to decline. We haven't noticed a | :40:46. | :40:48. | |
massive drop yet, but it does seem to be kind of dropping. The freeze | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
on petrol duty was a good idea. I think it will help people, it will | :40:54. | :41:01. | |
help stabilise the slight increase in costs we are seeing coming | :41:02. | :41:04. | |
through on supermarkets and luxuries, things like that. I have | :41:05. | :41:12. | |
been piercing for about ten years now. I absolutely love it. I can't | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
see myself having another job. For me, it is making somebody happier in | :41:18. | :41:20. | |
their own skin than they were before. It is so much fun. Kim | :41:21. | :41:26. | |
Hutchinson works at Skins And Needles tattoo studio in | :41:27. | :41:29. | |
Hillsborough. Like many of the artists in this booming industry, | :41:30. | :41:34. | |
she is self-employed. So the Conservative attempt to target the | :41:35. | :41:39. | |
just about managing resonates with her. I think the Jams is accurate, | :41:40. | :41:43. | |
not struggling but not rolling in it. For a lot of people, we are in | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
an uncertain time. While people might feel they are comfortable | :41:49. | :41:51. | |
right now, they don't know what will happen next month. Brexit has a lot | :41:52. | :41:55. | |
to do with it. The exchange rate has had a lot of affect on me. I buy a | :41:56. | :42:00. | |
lot of things from America, from Europe. We are keeping such a close | :42:01. | :42:03. | |
check on exchange rates. We are trying to look for a slight drop | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
before we place an order so that we can save a little bit that way. We | :42:08. | :42:16. | |
want to be a world leader... Back-up the building site, Jonathan Skelton | :42:17. | :42:19. | |
has endured almost an hour of financial announcements. Brexit and | :42:20. | :42:28. | |
death forecasts don't worry him. We are already in big debt anyway. But | :42:29. | :42:34. | |
bigger debt? What difference will it make? We knew it would be a long and | :42:35. | :42:39. | |
drawn-out process. As for the notion that the Brexit debt could cost | :42:40. | :42:42. | |
almost the same as the League campaign claimed we could get back | :42:43. | :42:48. | |
and pay into the NHS? We would continue to pay 350 million in the | :42:49. | :42:54. | |
EU for however many years, I think it is a small price to pay until we | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
get back on our feet. We are a resilient country, resilient people. | :43:00. | :43:02. | |
We will get there, we fight. We always do. We are British. | :43:03. | :43:05. | |
Let's talk now to Rupert Harrison, former Chief of Staff | :43:06. | :43:07. | |
to George Osborne and now Managing Director at Blackrock, | :43:08. | :43:10. | |
Stephen Glover from the Daily Mail, and Polly Toynbee from the Guardian. | :43:11. | :43:16. | |
Let's take a look at the front page of the Daily Mail. You have taken an | :43:17. | :43:23. | |
optimistic view, so much for Mr gloomy? Yesterday, an upbeat | :43:24. | :43:30. | |
Chancellor predicted growth, pity about the terrifying debt. Did you | :43:31. | :43:37. | |
feel that optimistic? I think it was a reasonably happy day. The | :43:38. | :43:40. | |
Chancellor has been very gloomy until almost a day before yesterday. | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
I suspect the pro-minister had been sitting on him and he made an | :43:45. | :43:47. | |
attempt to be upbeat as possible. He spoke about a resilient British | :43:48. | :43:50. | |
economy. He said there would be 500,000 new jobs by 2020. The growth | :43:51. | :43:57. | |
figures he outlined are not as good as they have been, but not too bad. | :43:58. | :44:04. | |
1.4 next year, 1.7 the year after, and then back to about two. He said | :44:05. | :44:09. | |
this year we would be the fastest-growing G7 economy. The OBR, | :44:10. | :44:13. | |
to be clear, I had wondered whether your line would be that OBR the | :44:14. | :44:17. | |
enemies of the people, coming up with a gloomy forecast because it is | :44:18. | :44:21. | |
the revenge of the expert. But that is not your... You accept what the | :44:22. | :44:27. | |
OBR are saying? The OBR itself is doubtful about it. And it should be. | :44:28. | :44:30. | |
It has got things are so consistently wrong and it is more | :44:31. | :44:34. | |
than usually difficult when it does not know the terms of Brexit. They | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
know it is going to be difficult. Polly? Well, it's a disaster. | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
Everything that Project Fear said is more or less turning out to be | :44:45. | :44:47. | |
right. You are right, nobody knows exactly how these forecasts are | :44:48. | :44:55. | |
going. But the small c Conservatives have been very cautious. They are | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
assuming we are still in the single market and being quite positive. It | :45:01. | :45:05. | |
is going to mean ?830 per year, on average, people are going to lose. | :45:06. | :45:11. | |
Hammond himself said that people didn't vote to be poorer. I wonder | :45:12. | :45:15. | |
whether, when it sinks in, it will take a while, probably not until the | :45:16. | :45:18. | |
end of next year, people are going to say, they never told us that we | :45:19. | :45:22. | |
were going to vote to be poorer, and whether they are going to feel it | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
was a bad mistake. We have a budget that is really a fantasy, as you | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
keep saying, the idea we are going to get 7% more cuts, unthinkable. | :45:32. | :45:35. | |
Nothing in the budget for health, nothing for social care. | :45:36. | :45:41. | |
Rupert, those are the same spending projections that work there when | :45:42. | :45:50. | |
you... Do you believe, moving on from Brexiting, that we can now get | :45:51. | :45:55. | |
roaring down to those cuts in spending. Of course we can. A | :45:56. | :46:03. | |
majority was won in the last election. The OBR were in quite a | :46:04. | :46:08. | |
difficult position, as a nonpolitical body. But it has been | :46:09. | :46:14. | |
handled with a characteristically shrewd approach. He has positioned | :46:15. | :46:19. | |
himself in a slightly more optimistic position than the Bank of | :46:20. | :46:27. | |
England and other forecasters. Stephen, your paper does say, pity | :46:28. | :46:33. | |
about the terrifying debt. You clearly don't want us to sit at | :46:34. | :46:38. | |
borrowing 4% of GDP forever. Of course not. What is your view on how | :46:39. | :46:46. | |
to get out of this? Spending is slightly higher over the next four | :46:47. | :46:49. | |
years than it was in the March budget. Indeed, because they feel | :46:50. | :46:54. | |
they are not going to be able to do it. We do not know the terms of | :46:55. | :47:02. | |
Brexit. I think that the 1.4% growth forecast next year is unduly | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
pessimistic. If we grew by 2% next year, then all of these figures | :47:08. | :47:13. | |
about having a hole of ?59 billion will be thrown into a different | :47:14. | :47:18. | |
perspective. We are looking into the unknown. Forecasters should have a | :47:19. | :47:23. | |
humility. In May, we were promised by George Osborne that there would | :47:24. | :47:28. | |
be a profound shock to the economy if people voted for Brexit. That | :47:29. | :47:33. | |
hasn't happened. Far from it. The British economy is doing well. Did | :47:34. | :47:40. | |
the experts get it wrong? I agree for the need for humility, but we | :47:41. | :47:48. | |
have to have it from both sides. The short-term forecasters were wrong. | :47:49. | :47:52. | |
The early indications, as the OBR pointed out, of inward investment | :47:53. | :47:59. | |
and so on, those are starting to come off more in the way that was | :48:00. | :48:04. | |
predicted. But it is incredibly early days. Stephen's plan is that | :48:05. | :48:08. | |
he doesn't really believe the OBR figures, so that warring would be so | :48:09. | :48:16. | |
bad. But it could be worse. Of course it could, but it's not | :48:17. | :48:24. | |
likely. Are we a nation who has a structural deficit, which we have | :48:25. | :48:30. | |
had for ten years now, so are we undertaxed, or are we overspending? | :48:31. | :48:35. | |
We are a nation that is always saying it wants Swedish services on | :48:36. | :48:42. | |
US tax rates. The plan that you and George Osborne have hatched is to | :48:43. | :48:49. | |
keep the state shrinking, down to 35 or 36%. It is still on that | :48:50. | :48:55. | |
trajectory, but will take rather longer. Spending is still above 40% | :48:56. | :49:02. | |
of GDP, which is part of the long-term average. It is not a | :49:03. | :49:07. | |
catastrophic level of spending. But the idea is to get it down to around | :49:08. | :49:14. | |
35% eventually. The idea that we should cut and cut again, a country | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
where our public services have become thinner, shabbier and more | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
wretched, the idea that you can take 12 billion in benefit cuts of the | :49:25. | :49:27. | |
lower half, I cannot understand why you did that. Why didn't you take it | :49:28. | :49:34. | |
off the broader shoulders if you wanted to make those cuts? The | :49:35. | :49:40. | |
deficit reduction plan has been spread extremely broadly across the | :49:41. | :49:44. | |
population. At a time where businesses around us are | :49:45. | :49:49. | |
transforming the way we live our lives, this defeatism about the idea | :49:50. | :49:51. | |
that the government cannot do anything like that is ludicrous. | :49:52. | :49:59. | |
It's not government, it is people. People who are working very hard... | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
There are savings in the way we do things. Why take 12 billion of | :50:05. | :50:11. | |
things like Universal Credit is, meant to help people, and instead | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
you have cut corporation tax is, that was in your plan... The reason | :50:16. | :50:21. | |
why public spending has been difficult to cut is because | :50:22. | :50:27. | |
demographics, health spending and pensioners, are making it very hard | :50:28. | :50:31. | |
to get the state down to where it was in the 1950s. What would be your | :50:32. | :50:37. | |
plan, if they have to find more cuts in spending? The pension triple | :50:38. | :50:42. | |
lock? I have no idea what the government would do. I hope it will | :50:43. | :50:48. | |
not be necessary. That could be the motto of the Day! It is clearly | :50:49. | :50:55. | |
impossible. None of it is true or going to happen. Thank you very | :50:56. | :50:56. | |
much. Stay tuned for No Such | :50:57. | :51:05. | |
Thing As The News. A very quiet prospect for the next | :51:06. | :51:17. | |
few | :51:18. | :51:18. |