19/01/2017 Newsnight


19/01/2017

Emily Maitlis and Kirsty Wark look at Trump's similarities with Reagan in an inauguration special. Plus an interview with Bob Woodward, Khizr Khan and Michael Ignatieff.


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Transcript


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The project to "Make America Great Again" begins in earnest.

:00:00.:00:09.

Team Trump is fully assembled and, they say, ready for action.

:00:10.:00:20.

My name is Donald Trump, and I am the largest developer in New York...

:00:21.:00:27.

To think a man better known for his celebrity could become president.

:00:28.:00:29.

So help us God, we will make America great again.

:00:30.:00:37.

Documentary-maker Michael Cockerell has been asking,

:00:38.:00:40.

do Ronald and Donald share more than we yet know?

:00:41.:00:43.

The Muslim mother of a US war hero gives us her message for Trump.

:00:44.:00:46.

I don't need his apologies because he's his type of person.

:00:47.:00:49.

I don't believe and I don't expect anything from him.

:00:50.:00:52.

Trump's battle cry against elites is reverberating around the West

:00:53.:00:55.

and found its way into the Swiss citadel of the global elite

:00:56.:00:58.

in Davos, where the Prime Minister today delivered this warning.

:00:59.:01:02.

Talk of greater globalisation can make people fearful.

:01:03.:01:07.

For many, it means their jobs being outsourced and wages undercut.

:01:08.:01:13.

as they watch their communities change around them.

:01:14.:01:18.

the Canadian academic and former Liberal Party leader,

:01:19.:01:21.

if the revolt against globalisation can or can't be stopped.

:01:22.:01:38.

Good evening from Washington on the eve of a seminal moment

:01:39.:01:41.

for America - the inauguration of Donald Trump.

:01:42.:01:43.

Tonight, we begin to witness the transition

:01:44.:01:44.

to America's first non-politician as president.

:01:45.:01:49.

The Trump cabinet, collective net worth some 14 billion,

:01:50.:01:53.

is fully assembled, and they're calling the theme

:01:54.:01:56.

of the transition "Uniquely American".

:01:57.:02:02.

Today saw a ceremonial wreath-laying at Arlington Cemetry,

:02:03.:02:04.

and a lunch at - you guessed it - Trump International Hotel.

:02:05.:02:09.

Washington, DC feels packed with a nervous energy,

:02:10.:02:11.

but here's the thing no-one can tell you.

:02:12.:02:18.

Are the people lining its streets Trump supporters

:02:19.:02:20.

who've travelled here from across America,

:02:21.:02:21.

or protesters who have come to raise their voice

:02:22.:02:23.

against the inexorable movement of history?

:02:24.:02:27.

Tonight, we talk to those who welcome

:02:28.:02:29.

and to those who fear the 45th Presidency.

:02:30.:02:32.

And we start by welcoming Joel Pollack,

:02:33.:02:36.

the senior editor at large from Breitbart News,

:02:37.:02:37.

and Bob Woodward, the investigative journalist of Watergate fame.

:02:38.:02:43.

Very nice to have you both here, I am going to start with you, the team

:02:44.:02:51.

is calling this uniquely American, what to make of that, how should we

:02:52.:02:55.

interpret that? What is really interesting about it is it has the

:02:56.:02:59.

same feeling as the Republican convention in Cleveland, when many

:03:00.:03:04.

of the big lobbyists stayed away, the celebrity stayed away, because

:03:05.:03:09.

they were a little bit and easy about what Donald Trump meant. As a

:03:10.:03:14.

result, it was more populous, and it is feeling the same in Washington,

:03:15.:03:18.

DC today, the people coming here are people from all corners of the

:03:19.:03:22.

country who are salt of the Americans, they are here because

:03:23.:03:26.

they want to see him take the oath, and this is their party. I guess is

:03:27.:03:32.

democracy at its most bold, a country that started from scratch,

:03:33.:03:36.

and elected somebody with no experience, no legislative

:03:37.:03:39.

experience, yes, you can have the highest office in the land, what

:03:40.:03:44.

does it tell you? It is so interesting, because tomorrow, when

:03:45.:03:49.

Trump becomes president, there is automatically, because he is

:03:50.:03:54.

president, moral authority bestowed upon him, and the goodwill of most

:03:55.:04:00.

people, actually, even people who don't trust him, don't like him. The

:04:01.:04:07.

fascinating question is going to be, when he gives that speech, what is

:04:08.:04:13.

the tone going to be? Does he, in a sense, say, you know, look, the

:04:14.:04:20.

campaign is over, as he said when he declared victory in the night of the

:04:21.:04:24.

election? Unifying moment. Will he do that again, and will this

:04:25.:04:32.

goodwill that normally comes to a president come to him? Now, he is

:04:33.:04:38.

lower in the polls, there is more anxiety, I think you would agree,

:04:39.:04:44.

more uncertainty, but at least for the first few days, I think he is in

:04:45.:04:50.

the driver's seat. And how do you approach? Many will remember that

:04:51.:04:53.

yours was the journalism that brought down a president, Nixon, and

:04:54.:04:58.

yours will be seen as the journalism that is propping up a president. How

:04:59.:05:06.

do you work through that dichotomy? Well, for us, it is a bit of a

:05:07.:05:11.

challenge, because we were seen as very much broke Trump, but our

:05:12.:05:15.

readers are quite harsh on us. In this era of new media, you have very

:05:16.:05:19.

little room to deviate from what your audience expects, and we are a

:05:20.:05:23.

conservative website at the core. The fact that Donald Trump was the

:05:24.:05:27.

nominee meant that we supported him because that is what we do, but

:05:28.:05:31.

there was a lot of criticism, I criticised him on several occasions

:05:32.:05:34.

when I disagreed with him, and if we stray from principle into political

:05:35.:05:39.

support for Donald Trump, I think our readers would be unforgiving.

:05:40.:05:44.

Can he be held to account? Of course, he will be held to account,

:05:45.:05:48.

and that the same time, the journalists, a lot of journalists

:05:49.:05:53.

are rattled, because this was an quite frankly lots of people in

:05:54.:06:00.

journalism do not like him. My view is the job of the reporter is to be

:06:01.:06:08.

so neutral you cannot stand it and to deal with facts, but also be

:06:09.:06:16.

aggressive. And I think that is really an important cultural moment

:06:17.:06:19.

for the media, are we going to be able to rise to that obligation? We

:06:20.:06:26.

are going to pick up with these points in a few moments.

:06:27.:06:29.

Donald Trump represents the archetypal showman.

:06:30.:06:31.

The actor, the man who made his name not from politics

:06:32.:06:33.

And although it feels unprecedented right now,

:06:34.:06:36.

in some ways it's not - America did it once before,

:06:37.:06:39.

36 years ago when they elected the film star Ronald Reagan,

:06:40.:06:46.

a man whose legacy now dictates is up there

:06:47.:06:49.

with some of the presidential greats.

:06:50.:06:50.

Documentary film-maker Michael Cockerell

:06:51.:06:52.

He looks at the parallels and sometimes startling differences

:06:53.:06:57.

In the traditional motion-picture story,

:06:58.:07:05.

the villains are usually defeated, the ending is a happy one.

:07:06.:07:08.

I can make no such promise for the picture you're about to watch.

:07:09.:07:11.

Well, sure, I'd love to take off my hat,

:07:12.:07:13.

it's actually my hair, you know! I have lots of witnesses, so it is.

:07:14.:07:16.

But hey, it's mine, it may not be pretty, but it's mine.

:07:17.:07:22.

Both Donald Trump and Ronald Reagan had a number of things in common,

:07:23.:07:26.

including the slogan that Reagan had used

:07:27.:07:29.

to launch his 1980 presidential campaign.

:07:30.:07:33.

Let us pledge to each other, with this great lady looking on,

:07:34.:07:37.

that we can and, so help us God, we will make America great again.

:07:38.:07:44.

And we will make America great again!

:07:45.:07:53.

God bless you and good night, I love you!

:07:54.:07:59.

I think he just brings an optimism back to the United States

:08:00.:08:01.

Of all the presidents in the post-war era,

:08:02.:08:08.

Ronald Reagan was the one about whom the establishment

:08:09.:08:11.

in Washington, DC was the most apprehensive - before Donald Trump.

:08:12.:08:16.

And Reagan, like Trump, was perceived as an outsider,

:08:17.:08:19.

an American nationalist, someone that didn't appreciate the world.

:08:20.:08:24.

So in that sense, the two of them were the two figures,

:08:25.:08:28.

I think, who became president who were the most feared

:08:29.:08:31.

Reagan and Trump were, at the age of 70,

:08:32.:08:39.

the oldest ever US presidents to be elected.

:08:40.:08:43.

The two right-wing Republicans had been Democrats in their youth,

:08:44.:08:47.

and both had taken an unorthodox route to the White House.

:08:48.:08:51.

I'm the one they're all talking about.

:08:52.:08:56.

I'd started as sort of an Errol Flynn of the Bs.

:08:57.:09:04.

Tough luck, son, I guess we can't all have charm and good looks too.

:09:05.:09:09.

I made about eight of those in 11 months.

:09:10.:09:26.

I was brave, but in a kind of low-budget fashion!

:09:27.:09:32.

New York City, and in this town the sky's the limit.

:09:33.:09:36.

Donald Trump was rather less low-budget.

:09:37.:09:45.

and I'm the largest developer in New York.

:09:46.:09:49.

but I also own golf courses, resorts...

:09:50.:09:52.

He was a billionaire property tycoon

:09:53.:09:56.

I am officially running for President of the United States...

:09:57.:10:07.

The Donald finally announced he was running for the presidency

:10:08.:10:11.

and the severest doubts were raised about his fitness for office.

:10:12.:10:17.

Just as had happened with Ronald Reagan.

:10:18.:10:24.

I made a film about Reagan when he ran for president in 1980.

:10:25.:10:29.

He'd served for eight years as Governor of California,

:10:30.:10:32.

But he was still widely seen as a trigger-happy cowboy.

:10:33.:10:38.

I questioned Reagan at a rare press conference.

:10:39.:10:46.

From the BBC in London, do you have any doubts

:10:47.:10:48.

about your ability to play the role of America's leading man?

:10:49.:10:55.

Do I have any doubts about my ability

:10:56.:10:57.

to play the role of leading man in America?

:10:58.:11:01.

I've never thought of it that way, I left that profession.

:11:02.:11:05.

I have confidence, based on my experience as Governor,

:11:06.:11:12.

that I can offer a better solution to the problems

:11:13.:11:15.

than either of the men who are running against me.

:11:16.:11:17.

Reagan's campaign meetings are expensively

:11:18.:11:20.

stage-managed spectaculars, made for the television cameras.

:11:21.:11:30.

in taking government off the backs of the American people

:11:31.:11:35.

and turning you loose to do what I know you can do.

:11:36.:11:40.

For his supporters, Reagan was the strong man America needed

:11:41.:11:43.

to stand up to the Soviet Union and its other enemies abroad.

:11:44.:11:46.

For his opponents, Reagan was a warmonger

:11:47.:11:51.

who threatened to attack the Iranian ayatollahs,

:11:52.:11:56.

had been held hostage for over a year.

:11:57.:12:06.

Do you really think Iranian terrorists would have

:12:07.:12:09.

taken Americans hostage if Ronald Reagan were president?

:12:10.:12:14.

Do you really think the Russians would have invaded Afghanistan

:12:15.:12:16.

Do you really think third-rate military dictators

:12:17.:12:20.

would laugh at America and burn our flag in contempt

:12:21.:12:22.

As with Trump, the prospect of Ronald Reagan in the White House

:12:23.:12:30.

powerfully divided opinion on both sides of the Atlantic.

:12:31.:12:35.

From the day that Reagan won the election,

:12:36.:12:37.

the metropolitan liberal elite, the media elite,

:12:38.:12:40.

they condescended to him, they laughed at him.

:12:41.:12:42.

In fact, at no point during the eight years

:12:43.:12:45.

did they ever, ever concede that

:12:46.:12:48.

there might be a decent point that Reagan had to make.

:12:49.:12:51.

and I think most of my friends, we were afraid.

:12:52.:12:56.

How could a B movie actor suddenly be ruler of the world?

:12:57.:13:01.

Fear, his finger on the button, doddery, vague,

:13:02.:13:04.

would he have any idea what he was doing?

:13:05.:13:15.

Well, it's great to be here on Saturday Live.

:13:16.:13:17.

Well, it's great to be here on Saturday, anyway.

:13:18.:13:21.

I'm going to answer your questions,

:13:22.:13:23.

so fire away, fellas, as I said to the Sixth Fleet yesterday.

:13:24.:13:27.

What exactly are you doing over here?

:13:28.:13:31.

Well, sir, let me answer this way - I don't know.

:13:32.:13:35.

Pretty smart for a guy of 103, huh? Next answer, please.

:13:36.:13:42.

The satirists' victim, President Reagan arrived in Britain.

:13:43.:13:46.

he had a woman Prime Minister as his opposite number.

:13:47.:13:52.

She fiercely rejected Reagan's Spitting Image.

:13:53.:13:56.

In a way, there was a love story, a political love story

:13:57.:13:59.

between Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan.

:14:00.:14:01.

They found they believed in the same things,

:14:02.:14:03.

the same basic things, low taxes, strong defence, anti-Communism.

:14:04.:14:11.

We in Britain think you are a wonderful President.

:14:12.:14:20.

We share so many of the same goals and a determination to achieve them,

:14:21.:14:23.

that you summed up so well and unless I can cannot imitate this

:14:24.:14:27.

wonderful American English accent - "you ain't seen nothing yet!"

:14:28.:14:34.

I think President Reagan was a man who knew how to handle women,

:14:35.:14:38.

he spent a lifetime handling beautiful woman.

:14:39.:14:42.

She liked to be treated as a woman, not just a Prime Minister.

:14:43.:14:51.

Based on the career that I once had, before this one, you are a very

:14:52.:14:57.

Well, they both saw communism as fundamentally evil,

:14:58.:15:04.

that the communist system needed to be brought down and destroyed.

:15:05.:15:09.

This poster parodying the film Gone with the Wind was for the most

:15:10.:15:12.

She promised to follow him to the end of the earth.

:15:13.:15:18.

REPORTER: What do you have to say this morning, Mr President?

:15:19.:15:24.

But surprisingly, following Mrs Thatcher's example,

:15:25.:15:29.

Reagan made a U-turn and forged a strong relationship

:15:30.:15:33.

with Mikhail Gorbachev, the reformist Soviet leader.

:15:34.:15:41.

The two men met in Reykjavik, the Icelandic capital,

:15:42.:15:44.

and were to reach a deal on cutting back their countries'

:15:45.:15:47.

Donald Trump says he wants to follow suit and have a meeting

:15:48.:15:52.

with the current Russian leader, Vladimir Putin.

:15:53.:15:54.

I think there will be a summit in Reykjavik, even,

:15:55.:15:58.

Not unlike the summit between Reagan and Gorbachev some decades ago,

:15:59.:16:04.

where people were equally pessimistic and yet what resulted?

:16:05.:16:08.

So how does the veterinary US diplomat Raymond Sykes

:16:09.:16:22.

answer the great question about what is the exact nature

:16:23.:16:24.

But what is, really, President-elect Trump's view of Mr Putin?

:16:25.:16:35.

I don't think he's going to come over all soft and furry and be out

:16:36.:16:39.

there, allowing President Putin to stroke him and go

:16:40.:16:42.

The admiration between Putin and Trump is horrific.

:16:43.:16:51.

I don't think it'll last for any length of time because they are both

:16:52.:16:54.

dangerous narcissists, very easily offended and affronted.

:16:55.:16:57.

And one way or another, one will rub the other

:16:58.:16:59.

It seems Putin may well have all sorts of blackmail-able

:17:00.:17:05.

The notorious leaked dossier, with its lurid allegations

:17:06.:17:13.

of Donald Trump watching Russian prostitutes urinate on a bed

:17:14.:17:18.

in a Moscow hotel and any tapes of the so-called "golden shower",

:17:19.:17:22.

would provide the Kremlin with classic blackmail material.

:17:23.:17:24.

It's all fake news, it's phoney stuff.

:17:25.:17:31.

It was a group of opponents who got together, sick people,

:17:32.:17:37.

Does anybody really believe that story?

:17:38.:17:44.

I am also very much a germophobe, by the way.

:17:45.:17:46.

OK, fine, Russia hacked the election, are you happy?

:17:47.:17:50.

Are you sure Russia was behind hacking?

:17:51.:18:04.

I think there was a shared feeling that we were two

:18:05.:18:31.

of the most vilified people in the Western world!

:18:32.:18:36.

Well, thank you, and good evening, Mississippi.

:18:37.:18:41.

If I think back through all of it, what were the big contributions

:18:42.:18:46.

that I perhaps made, or the contributions I made

:18:47.:18:48.

towards the campaign, one was making Brexit part

:18:49.:18:50.

Something that he completely embraced.

:18:51.:18:54.

I think it's going to be a Brexit plus, plus, plus,

:18:55.:18:56.

I speak to Trump's team and Trump's close advisers and even

:18:57.:19:03.

None of them think Trump would have won unless Brexit had happened.

:19:04.:19:12.

So you helped make Donald Trump President?

:19:13.:19:16.

Well, it wasn't the direct object at the time!

:19:17.:19:20.

Of fighting for all those years for a referendum.

:19:21.:19:24.

But as a by-product, it was part of it, yes.

:19:25.:19:28.

That a lot of us who supported Trump also supported Brexit

:19:29.:19:33.

and English independence, if they wanted it, and a lot

:19:34.:19:37.

of the other countries, if they want to get out of the EU,

:19:38.:19:40.

We wanted to get out of the British Empire.

:19:41.:19:45.

Nigel Farage got his reward by becoming the first British

:19:46.:19:48.

politician to have a face-to-face meeting with President-elect

:19:49.:19:51.

While the British Prime Minister, Theresa May,

:19:52.:19:55.

Yes, I look forward to working with President-elect Trump.

:19:56.:20:01.

Any British Prime Minister, male or female, needs to get

:20:02.:20:04.

Even if you don't like them, even if you think they are half

:20:05.:20:09.

barmy, you really have to get on with them because that

:20:10.:20:12.

relationship is so important to the United Kingdom.

:20:13.:20:15.

I am just very interested to know your feelings

:20:16.:20:17.

before that meeting, bearing in mind some of the things

:20:18.:20:19.

I feel slightly awkward reading this out, but I do think it is important

:20:20.:20:26.

to re-hear what Donald Trump was recorded saying in the past,

:20:27.:20:29.

When you're a star, they let you do it, they let you do anything,

:20:30.:20:34.

I mean, forgetting the fact that you are Prime Minister for a moment,

:20:35.:20:39.

how does that make you feel as a woman?

:20:40.:20:41.

I think that is unacceptable and, in fact, Donald Trump himself has

:20:42.:20:44.

Whatever Trump's reputation, I am sure that when Mrs May goes

:20:45.:20:49.

into the Oval Office, there will not need to be

:20:50.:20:51.

I am sure this is all going to be absolutely...

:20:52.:20:55.

I thought you had volunteered at one stage?

:20:56.:20:57.

Donald Trump will go to Washington tomorrow as a political virgin.

:20:58.:21:12.

Having never before held any public office.

:21:13.:21:15.

He keeps in his own office a picture of his hero, Ronald Reagan,

:21:16.:21:21.

who had himself been much maligned as a dangerous maverick.

:21:22.:21:25.

So, does Reagan's record in the White House offer clues

:21:26.:21:29.

about how the new President, Donald J Trump, will perform?

:21:30.:21:33.

Ronnie was the outsider and he was a huge success.

:21:34.:21:36.

Trump, in some ways, is an even bigger outsider

:21:37.:21:39.

than Ronnie was and yet I feel pretty bullish, I feel

:21:40.:21:42.

pretty optimistic for what he is going to do.

:21:43.:21:46.

Donald Trump is even more frightening than Reagan, he seems

:21:47.:21:48.

He may end up being impeached within a very short period,

:21:49.:21:55.

within a very short time of his inauguration.

:21:56.:21:57.

On the other hand, it may end in tears for the rest of the world.

:21:58.:22:01.

If he is willing to pick fights with anybody, anyywhere,

:22:02.:22:03.

and his finger is on the nuclear button, God help us all.

:22:04.:22:07.

They say in Washington that it is the job of every

:22:08.:22:11.

new administration to make the previous

:22:12.:22:12.

And that won't be hard for Trump to do, I don't think!

:22:13.:22:29.

Joel Pollack and Bob Woodward join me.

:22:30.:22:37.

Thanks for sticking around. Cavalier was a word used about Reagan and it

:22:38.:22:46.

is being applied to Donald Trump, is that something that people have got

:22:47.:22:51.

wrong? He has a strategy? I have been able to do some reporting on

:22:52.:22:56.

this and if you look at what they want to do, Trump and his advisers,

:22:57.:23:02.

regarding Russia, it is this outreach to Vladimir Putin, which is

:23:03.:23:09.

a love -fest on one level and on the other, this is the second part of

:23:10.:23:12.

the strategy, to be tough with Vladimir Putin and build up the

:23:13.:23:20.

military and I think it is highly possible that the Trump

:23:21.:23:25.

administration will do some things that Putin is going to hate. In a

:23:26.:23:31.

way it is a classic Ronald Reagan two track, soft and hard. Does

:23:32.:23:37.

Breitbart step in when you hear about Russian hacking and leaks? Do

:23:38.:23:42.

you act as journalists who want to stop the closeness between Trump and

:23:43.:23:46.

Russia or think, where is this taking is? I criticised some of the

:23:47.:23:52.

Trump policies on Russia during the campaign because so many seemed to

:23:53.:23:56.

mirror what Obama tried, when he ran for office in 2007, he seemed to

:23:57.:24:01.

believe he could sit down with anybody and get along and it would

:24:02.:24:05.

be simple and Trump believed he would have a better success at the

:24:06.:24:08.

same thing because he had more experience in business as an

:24:09.:24:12.

Executive but I think Russian interests sometimes align with our

:24:13.:24:16.

own but sometimes not added means there will be conflict between any

:24:17.:24:21.

administration and Russia but as Bob said, the Trump team has developed a

:24:22.:24:27.

more nuanced policy, talking tough on nuclear stockpiles and building

:24:28.:24:30.

up the military... You signed quite optimistic about the future? People

:24:31.:24:36.

can have strategies and sometimes they work and sometimes they failed

:24:37.:24:43.

disastrously. We don't know. It is in the Reagan model, Ronald Reagan

:24:44.:24:47.

had eight years, he started very tough, remember, tear down the wall?

:24:48.:24:53.

Reagan called the Soviet Union the evil Empire and then with Gorbachev,

:24:54.:25:00.

there was a outreach. We have this Cabinet which is more like a bunch

:25:01.:25:06.

of CEOs, ?14 billion net worth with some estimates, does that worry you?

:25:07.:25:12.

The country is in the hands of 18 white rich men? Not at all. He has

:25:13.:25:20.

picked people with a track record of Executive experience, he has chosen

:25:21.:25:23.

people at the top of their field who he trusts with large government

:25:24.:25:27.

departments. Your former boss in the middle of that, how do you criticise

:25:28.:25:31.

anything the administration is doing when Steve Bannon is in there? We do

:25:32.:25:38.

that all the time, I have done this a dozen times in different articles,

:25:39.:25:43.

disagreeing with things, and we used to go to -2 on policy issues and

:25:44.:25:47.

that is a kind of team of rivals that Trump has assembled. Barack

:25:48.:25:52.

Obama got credit for this but Trump even more so, men and women with

:25:53.:25:56.

opinions. The people who rallied for Trump think they are voting and

:25:57.:26:02.

non-elitist President, that is what he sold them, does a Cabinet that

:26:03.:26:06.

worry you? We will see. You can have lots of money and do things for real

:26:07.:26:15.

people and the question is, are the policies going to be against people

:26:16.:26:23.

or pro-people? If the person on the street says, you know, Trump and

:26:24.:26:28.

this rich Cabinet are looking out for me, which they might, under the

:26:29.:26:32.

same time they might look out business interests in a way that is

:26:33.:26:39.

perceived to be an Thai people? Nicky you both very much. -- against

:26:40.:26:40.

people. At the height of the summer,

:26:41.:26:42.

Donald Trump waded into a row from which many thought

:26:43.:26:44.

he would not recover. He taunted the grieving parents

:26:45.:26:46.

of an American war wero, Humayun Khan, a soldier killed

:26:47.:26:49.

saving others in Iraq. Humayun's father had berated Trump

:26:50.:26:55.

for his anti-Muslim policies, accusing him of being

:26:56.:26:59.

unconstitutional and un-American. Trump turned his wrath

:27:00.:27:04.

on Humayun's mother, who stood at her husband's side,

:27:05.:27:07.

asking if she was gagged It was an extraordinary

:27:08.:27:09.

fight to pick. I travelled to meet the Khans

:27:10.:27:15.

at their home in Virginia to ask them what they thought

:27:16.:27:18.

about Trump, now. It was and remains really

:27:19.:27:22.

disheartening that such a rhetoric will have a place in the political

:27:23.:27:27.

discourse of this country. But he uttered those threats,

:27:28.:27:33.

not only to Muslim Americans He disrespected women

:27:34.:27:40.

and their dignity. He disrespected judges

:27:41.:27:46.

and their impartiality. All un-American, undemocratic

:27:47.:27:50.

political rhetoric. The general population,

:27:51.:27:54.

the majority of the population, is in support of Muslims

:27:55.:27:57.

and other minorities. They are in support

:27:58.:28:01.

of the constitutional Mrs Khan, Donald Trump singled

:28:02.:28:03.

you out for criticism when you stood next to your husband

:28:04.:28:08.

at the Democratic Convention, believing your silence

:28:09.:28:11.

was because of your religion, First, I was really surprised

:28:12.:28:14.

that he doesn't know They are as equal as their husbands

:28:15.:28:23.

or their fathers and their brothers. I was quiet, I told him I was quiet

:28:24.:28:35.

because of the situation. So I thought, if he can't feel

:28:36.:28:47.

the pain that I was going through on the stage,

:28:48.:28:58.

he can't feel anything, That we have lost a son,

:28:59.:29:01.

we gave up a son to this country, So it was very much

:29:02.:29:19.

a surprise for me. General Michael Flynn, who will be

:29:20.:29:31.

Trump's security adviser, is a man who described Islam

:29:32.:29:36.

as a vicious cancer. Your sense of what it will be like

:29:37.:29:41.

to have a Cabinet with him in it? Time after time, this incoming

:29:42.:29:46.

adviser to Trump has proven his ignorance,

:29:47.:29:54.

unbecoming of a military officer. I am amazed that with this

:29:55.:29:59.

ignorance, this individual was a general in the United States

:30:00.:30:03.

Army. But I have full faith

:30:04.:30:07.

in the patriotism of others that will surround him,

:30:08.:30:14.

they will render him ineffective. Did Mr Trump ever apologise

:30:15.:30:19.

to you for those comments? I don't need his apologies

:30:20.:30:22.

because he's his type of person. I don't believe and I don't

:30:23.:30:27.

expect anything from him. You don't ask these things

:30:28.:30:31.

from people that don't have hearts. I don't feel that his apology

:30:32.:30:41.

or his not apologising to me What do you expect

:30:42.:30:46.

from his Presidency? I don't expect anything

:30:47.:30:56.

from him or his Presidency. The office of the President

:30:57.:30:59.

is an amazingly powerful, respectful I fully acknowledge its impact

:31:00.:31:02.

on all but Trump was, had been and still is unqualified

:31:03.:31:17.

to be the President He is an illegitimate President

:31:18.:31:19.

of the United States. He did not win this election

:31:20.:31:24.

by the majority popular vote. He won the election

:31:25.:31:32.

because of the Electoral College. So the majority of the population

:31:33.:31:34.

of this country is still The Khan family talking to me

:31:35.:31:37.

earlier from their home in Virginia. a Muslim American journalist who's

:31:38.:31:57.

written of her support for Trump. I wonder if you came in for a lot of

:31:58.:32:06.

flak, supporting a man who many in the Muslim community have found to

:32:07.:32:09.

be deeply offensive. I got a lot of flak that only from Muslims, but

:32:10.:32:14.

also from fellow liberals and women. I was called names I have never

:32:15.:32:18.

heard before from my own community and those outside of it, and

:32:19.:32:22.

ultimately what I experienced is emblematic of this division that we

:32:23.:32:26.

have in our society, both from the right and the left, and what I wish

:32:27.:32:30.

people would do would be to come to the middle, where we see each

:32:31.:32:35.

other's humanity. So gender politics was thrown at you and it shouldn't

:32:36.:32:39.

have mattered? How do you explain what many people believed were

:32:40.:32:42.

deeply offensive policies? What I believe we should try to do is be

:32:43.:32:48.

the civility we want to see in the world, so if you want a gender

:32:49.:32:54.

politics to be expressed... I said gender, I meant identity politics.

:32:55.:32:58.

If you want to be treated respectfully, we must treat others

:32:59.:33:01.

respectfully, and I cast my ballot for a politician who is very

:33:02.:33:10.

indelicate in his language, he has no four play when he speaks to

:33:11.:33:14.

people. He was trying to implement all spoke at one point about

:33:15.:33:18.

implementing policies which would have stopped Muslim Americans from

:33:19.:33:24.

coming into the country, how do you handle that? A lot of that was a

:33:25.:33:29.

misrepresentation, he never said he would stop Muslim Americans from

:33:30.:33:32.

coming into the country, there was never a conversation about a Muslim

:33:33.:33:38.

registry, it was a very clear exit-entry registration programme

:33:39.:33:43.

that the Bush administration put in place, that the Obama administration

:33:44.:33:47.

had in place, but that does not sell hashtags. You didn't hear anything

:33:48.:33:52.

different from Donald Trump two previous presidents? We had the same

:33:53.:33:56.

kind of policy in place during the Bush administration, so this

:33:57.:34:00.

incredulity is what led to a situation where we could not have

:34:01.:34:05.

conversations, so even in the Muslim community, the liberal community, I

:34:06.:34:12.

couldn't speak up, and so we had people like myself who were silent,

:34:13.:34:16.

and we wouldn't speak, and so we cast our ballot, though, and that is

:34:17.:34:24.

what I did. And now I am on a hit list among my fellow liberals, you

:34:25.:34:27.

know, as somebody who has betrayed my nation... A hit list? What are

:34:28.:34:35.

you saying, that they couldn't take your vote seriously? Right, look at

:34:36.:34:39.

the politics that we are dealing with today, I mean, the idea that

:34:40.:34:44.

Donald Trump is an illegitimate president basically says that those

:34:45.:34:49.

of us who cast our vote for him are also illegitimate. So what this has

:34:50.:34:54.

done to me, it has continued the divisiveness in our country, and I

:34:55.:34:57.

think ultimately we have to respect the will of the people, and you can

:34:58.:35:02.

have your politics, but as a lifelong Democrat, I am more

:35:03.:35:06.

disappointed in the response that the Democrats have had in the months

:35:07.:35:11.

since the election. I would love to hear how a lifelong Democrat went

:35:12.:35:15.

for Donald Trump, but we have run out of time, thank you very much

:35:16.:35:20.

indeed for joining us here. Before we go, it is a curious thing, but

:35:21.:35:25.

here on Capitol Hill, it feels very silent right now, this is the heart

:35:26.:35:29.

of government in America, of course, and there is barely a sold witching.

:35:30.:35:36.

Why? Because all the action as by the Lincoln Memorial, the reflecting

:35:37.:35:38.

pool, and you can probably see the pictures of thousands of Trump

:35:39.:35:43.

supporters, thousands of people gathering to hear the bands. We

:35:44.:35:48.

understand that Donald Trump and his wife are, if not amongst them, at

:35:49.:35:52.

least enjoying the spectacle, looking on. This is part of the

:35:53.:35:57.

celebrations on the before inauguration, and you can see there

:35:58.:36:01.

have been a lot of people happy to come and take part in the

:36:02.:36:05.

inauguration ceremonies, as they are kicking off this evening here in the

:36:06.:36:07.

capital. That's just about it

:36:08.:36:09.

from here in Washington tonight. Tomorrow, just before noon,

:36:10.:36:11.

Donald Trump will be sworn in as the 45th President of

:36:12.:36:14.

the United States on Capitol Hill. But for now,

:36:15.:36:16.

back to Kirsty in London. What's happening in America

:36:17.:36:24.

tomorrow is, for many, and perhaps a revolution

:36:25.:36:28.

in global politics. Donald Trump won by winning

:36:29.:36:32.

over many of his fellow Americans who felt left behind

:36:33.:36:34.

by globalisation Similar concerns are being felt

:36:35.:36:35.

in continental Europe - making the Front National's

:36:36.:36:42.

Marine Le Pen a serious contender

:36:43.:36:44.

for the Elysee in France. Chancellor Angela Merkel

:36:45.:36:47.

is under pressure in Germany as are leaders in Italy,

:36:48.:36:50.

the Netherlands and Austria. In the UK, Theresa May

:36:51.:36:56.

set out her strategy the decision in part

:36:57.:36:59.

a rejection of globalisation Meanwhile, Vladimir Putin -

:37:00.:37:03.

sensing weakness in the West - extends his influence in

:37:04.:37:10.

the Middle East and Eastern Europe. Michael Ignatieff,

:37:11.:37:16.

the Canadian academic, writer and former politician,

:37:17.:37:17.

is with me. Good evening. Do you see a line that

:37:18.:37:30.

runs from Donald Trump through to Marine Le Pen, right on through to

:37:31.:37:35.

Eastern Europe and Hungary? I think that the line I do see is fear, back

:37:36.:37:43.

to globalisation. Globalisation is a very old story, we have been

:37:44.:37:47.

globalising for four centuries, but as long as it was securely

:37:48.:37:51.

controlled by our empires, we felt we could master globalisation. A lot

:37:52.:37:56.

of the fear in the United States has spread to Britain, a sense that we

:37:57.:38:00.

have lost control of globalisation, that it is now being powered by

:38:01.:38:04.

China, it is being powered by Asia, and we have lost control of it, and

:38:05.:38:10.

the minute we lose control of it, it begins to be threatening. You would

:38:11.:38:14.

have heard Nigel Farage saying that he felt, had it not been for Brexit,

:38:15.:38:18.

Donald Trump would not have won the election, what do you say to that? I

:38:19.:38:25.

think he is smoking something. I mean, Nigel Farage is a very

:38:26.:38:29.

brilliant politician, but radically overemphasising that. What I think

:38:30.:38:35.

Brexit did is its dislodged the normal, its dislodged the usual and

:38:36.:38:39.

created a space in which more unusual things could happen. But

:38:40.:38:43.

let's not get into the view that this is kind of an irreversible

:38:44.:38:51.

historical change we might be back in the autumn and Angela Merkel has

:38:52.:38:55.

won the German election, and we will think very differently about the

:38:56.:38:59.

shape of the history we are living. But the picture might be very

:39:00.:39:03.

different in France, and I wonder, Theresa May talking today about

:39:04.:39:08.

globalisation, we should worry about people being left behind, but this

:39:09.:39:12.

feeling of powerlessness, the feeling that globalisation doesn't

:39:13.:39:15.

work for everybody, she is talking to elites, what are they going to do

:39:16.:39:20.

about it? In a sense, it is too late, the cat is out of the bag, you

:39:21.:39:27.

cannot bottle it up again. No, you certainly cannot, and automation is

:39:28.:39:31.

working right across our economies, governments can do... We saw that in

:39:32.:39:37.

the film from America. Exactly. The contradiction is that Trump has

:39:38.:39:45.

created a Cabinet of businessmen who are beneficiaries, they are the

:39:46.:39:54.

elite. I think, what does a guy in Tennessee, in Kentucky, in

:39:55.:40:01.

Pennsylvania, the working-class vote that supported Trump, what are they

:40:02.:40:04.

going to get from this administration to protect them from

:40:05.:40:08.

globalisation? Not then. And that, I think, lays that therefore an even

:40:09.:40:14.

more violent disillusionment with politics. Well, let's bring that to

:40:15.:40:21.

Europe, because your thesis would be that, actually, you can't have

:40:22.:40:24.

democracy without sovereignty, and the best place to exercise that

:40:25.:40:28.

sovereignty is in the nation state. People are disillusioned with the EU

:40:29.:40:33.

because it has not given them control the way they want, not

:40:34.:40:36.

giving them control of their borders, not given Germans control

:40:37.:40:39.

of what is in their pocket, because it goes to Greece, who have not

:40:40.:40:44.

taken a responsible attitude, the Germans would think. So there is

:40:45.:40:48.

dysfunction about the whole notion of sovereignty at the heart of the

:40:49.:40:55.

EU. Let's go back to the start, this red thread is fear of globalisation,

:40:56.:41:01.

the responses, we have got to get democratic sovereignty back in

:41:02.:41:05.

control - in the United States, Britain, and that is affecting the

:41:06.:41:09.

cohesion of Europe, which had a different answer, which is we have

:41:10.:41:13.

got to get beyond sovereignty. I think there is no question that we

:41:14.:41:17.

are all coming back to the nation state and sovereignty, because it

:41:18.:41:21.

gives us this sense of control. So do you think the EU is a busted

:41:22.:41:27.

flush? It is terribly weak, but we might be back in seven months when

:41:28.:41:31.

Merkel has won the election and Le Pen has lost the election and be

:41:32.:41:35.

saying, the European Union has a new lease of life. But what I do think

:41:36.:41:41.

is that everybody, everywhere, is thinking, I want to elect somebody

:41:42.:41:46.

so that I can control my destiny. That is the red thread through all

:41:47.:41:53.

of this, and that means... That means there are limits to what the

:41:54.:41:57.

EU can do, they believe populist on more likely to do it, but populists

:41:58.:42:02.

are simultaneously saying, we have got to get government off our back,

:42:03.:42:06.

but you can't have it both ways - you can't offer the public

:42:07.:42:10.

democratic control over conditions and then say, we are going to get

:42:11.:42:13.

government off your back. You need given and to protect you from

:42:14.:42:20.

globalisation. -- you need government. But someone like Marine

:42:21.:42:25.

Le Pen might say, we are going to reinforce the idea of the nation

:42:26.:42:30.

state by not having open borders, and that would be the logical

:42:31.:42:36.

extension of the idea. The other thing presumably would be that we

:42:37.:42:39.

have to reinforce the idea of a social contract, but people at the

:42:40.:42:44.

lower end of the wage scale feel that the social contract has been

:42:45.:42:49.

broken. Yes, and where I think the liberal elites, as it were, have

:42:50.:42:53.

lost touch is just how little protection, real protection of and

:42:54.:43:00.

give ordinary people down at the bottom of the pile. And you see it

:43:01.:43:04.

in the United States. I mean, basically, millions of people have

:43:05.:43:11.

been abandoned by their government and... Abandoned bilateral is. Yes,

:43:12.:43:16.

abandoned by liberals, I am a proud liberal, but we need to take the rap

:43:17.:43:21.

for that. That sense of nobody looking after me seems to be a very

:43:22.:43:25.

deep red thread that cuts right across all the stories that we are

:43:26.:43:31.

trying to pull together. But there is nothing that nation states can do

:43:32.:43:34.

about global markets, global financial systems. We have seen what

:43:35.:43:38.

happened in 2008, and nation state were powerless to do anything about

:43:39.:43:44.

it - except retrospectively. We all want globalisation when it works for

:43:45.:43:49.

us, when wages are rising, when we are working in competitive

:43:50.:43:53.

industries, when it is raising our incomes. We all want protection from

:43:54.:43:57.

globalisation when suddenly we are working in declining industries that

:43:58.:44:00.

are no longer competitive. We want it both ways at once, and

:44:01.:44:05.

governments struggle to respond to these contradictory impulses from

:44:06.:44:07.

the public. Thank you very much. Before we go, as Washington,

:44:08.:44:09.

DC gears up for the inauguration of America's 45th President,

:44:10.:44:12.

here's a look back at some of the more memorable moments

:44:13.:44:14.

from previous inaugurations. Unfortunately, there were

:44:15.:44:16.

no cameras around These fireworks are going off right

:44:17.:44:29.

now, the celebrations and the protests that we cannot see at the

:44:30.:44:33.

moment in Washington tonight as they prepare for noon tomorrow when

:44:34.:44:39.

Donald Trump will be sworn in as the 45th President of the United States.

:44:40.:44:43.

This is Barack Obama's last night in the White House. And there is the

:44:44.:44:49.

extended Donald Trump family, watching, standing there, looking

:44:50.:44:53.

out, Mike Pence is there as well with his family. That is all we have

:44:54.:44:59.

time for. We have a full and packed programme tomorrow, and we are going

:45:00.:45:03.

out to see some of the more memorable moments from previous

:45:04.:45:05.

inaugurations, so watch out, good night.

:45:06.:45:06.

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

:45:07.:45:14.

Ask not what your country can do for you.

:45:15.:45:16.

Ask what you can do for your country.

:45:17.:45:29.

Government is not the solution to our problem.

:45:30.:45:30.

I have spoken of a thousand points of light,

:45:31.:45:35.

of all the community organisations that are spread

:45:36.:45:39.

like stars throughout the nation, doing good.

:45:40.:45:45.

We gather because we have chosen hope over fear.

:45:46.:45:58.

Good evening. Another quiet weather day on Friday, with the usual of

:45:59.:46:05.

this week, which is the hard frost in the south, patchy freezing fog,

:46:06.:46:10.

also frost in the north too, but as you can

:46:11.:46:11.