24/02/2017 Newsnight


24/02/2017

The programme focuses on the aftermath of the by-elections in Stoke and Copeland. With Kirsty Wark.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 24/02/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

She came, she saw, she conquered - is this Theresa May's imperium?

:00:00.:00:10.

Theresa Maia Brigantibus subiectis rempublicam hodie dominatur.

:00:11.:00:13.

Quis igitur est factio potens contra hoc imperium?

:00:14.:00:20.

And what I think we've seen from this victory is that this truly

:00:21.:00:26.

is a government that's working for everyone and for every

:00:27.:00:28.

Have you, at any point this morning, looked in the mirror and asked

:00:29.:00:46.

yourself this question: could the problem actually be me?

:00:47.:00:48.

We'll be asking the shadow Foreign Secretary if,

:00:49.:00:57.

with Corbyn at the helm, Labour can really march on Rome?

:00:58.:01:01.

Ukip tripped up spectacularly in the Stoke by-election -

:01:02.:01:04.

are they a party now looking for a purpose?

:01:05.:01:06.

Our political panel is here to discuss what Theresa May should

:01:07.:01:10.

do with her victory, and if she wants Jeremy Corbyn

:01:11.:01:13.

Theresa May was on the losing side in the referendum.

:01:14.:01:27.

She's an unelected leader, with a small working

:01:28.:01:30.

majority of 16, one up from yesterday,

:01:31.:01:34.

having to lead the most complex constitutional negotiations perhaps

:01:35.:01:37.

since the Act of Union in 1707 - negotiations she never

:01:38.:01:39.

Not a great position of strength, you might say,

:01:40.:01:45.

but this morning she led her party to victory in an area that's been

:01:46.:01:48.

held by Labour since 1935 - the first time a governing party has

:01:49.:01:52.

Her personal approval ratings are far and away ahead

:01:53.:01:59.

of Jeremy Corbyn's, who today insisted that he was determined

:02:00.:02:02.

to carry on and appeared to joke that the situation was catastrophic

:02:03.:02:05.

So this was the Prime Minister's day -

:02:06.:02:09.

she spent it in her new Tory-held Cumbria seat.

:02:10.:02:11.

Our political editor Nick Watt reports.

:02:12.:02:18.

For the moment, our unlikely Prime Minister reigned supreme, a

:02:19.:02:23.

by-election win in an area that had been beyond the reach of the Tories

:02:24.:02:27.

since the interwar years leaves Theresa May surveying a political

:02:28.:02:31.

landscape with few credible opponents. Theresa May once likened

:02:32.:02:37.

herself to Queen Elizabeth the first, a woman who thrived in a male

:02:38.:02:41.

dominated world by knowing her mind. But she's never seen herself as a

:02:42.:02:46.

glory on a figure and she is one of the least assuming occupants of

:02:47.:02:51.

number ten. She's more like John Major, Paire Margaret Thatcher in

:02:52.:02:54.

her imperial pomp and just like John Major, who secured the highest

:02:55.:02:59.

number of votes of any Tory leader, Theresa May is not the slightest bit

:03:00.:03:02.

complacent and knows that around every corner there are bear traps --

:03:03.:03:08.

than Margaret Thatcher. Theresa May has been shrewd in her position, she

:03:09.:03:14.

has a huge amount of authority and the Conservative Party believes

:03:15.:03:17.

she's an election winner. Those three things give her a lot of power

:03:18.:03:23.

and so at the moment she very strong. You always have to have a

:03:24.:03:27.

strategic view of what's coming next. The economy has been very

:03:28.:03:31.

strong for a long time, what will happen with that? Brexit is

:03:32.:03:36.

difficult but if you have those three things, and you have that

:03:37.:03:40.

authority, if you're seen as a winner, you can make a mark on the

:03:41.:03:45.

scene. Theresa May doesn't have any opposition, everyone has fallen

:03:46.:03:49.

away, the Labour Party can't deliver votes in its core seats, Ukip has

:03:50.:03:53.

shown that they cannot organise a campaign, they can't turn things

:03:54.:04:02.

into success locally, and the Lib Dems are regaining their seats after

:04:03.:04:11.

a devastating loss, so the Conservatives have the political

:04:12.:04:13.

landscape to themselves and the only real enemies they have placed to

:04:14.:04:17.

Theresa May's advantage because they are slightly unpopular Europeans

:04:18.:04:24.

that she can go to war with. As something of a diffident figure,

:04:25.:04:27.

Theresa May rarely shows much emotion but there was no mistaking

:04:28.:04:31.

her joy when she turned up in Copeland this morning. The Prime

:04:32.:04:36.

Minister even woke up her husband in the middle of the night to tell him

:04:37.:04:40.

the news. If you extrapolated the swing from Copeland which was 6.7%,

:04:41.:04:46.

and put that on top of the results of the last election, you would see

:04:47.:04:51.

a uniform swing across the country, depending on the boundaries and the

:04:52.:04:57.

decisions of the smaller parties, you would end up with Labour on

:04:58.:05:03.

about 150-160 seats, the Conservatives on something like 400,

:05:04.:05:07.

so a very substantial Conservative majority. Jeremy Corbyn made his way

:05:08.:05:13.

to stoke to celebrate his party's win in the potteries but this did

:05:14.:05:16.

not have the feel of a triumphal march. Labour's share of the vote

:05:17.:05:21.

had fallen in each seat. Internal critics mostly kept quiet, his

:05:22.:05:26.

allies were less restrained as they laid the blame for the party's poor

:05:27.:05:31.

showing at the feet of Tony Blair for criticising the leadership last

:05:32.:05:35.

week over Brexit, the issue that is bedevilling Jeremy Corbyn. The great

:05:36.:05:40.

irony is that Jeremy is losing a lot of support among the people who

:05:41.:05:45.

flocked to the party not over Iraq, austerity, or nuclear weapons, the

:05:46.:05:49.

things that define him, but on Europe where many younger supporters

:05:50.:05:56.

are very pro-European and he and -- at best is anaemic about it and that

:05:57.:06:01.

is the issue, combining the issue of ratings and popularity has. The Ukip

:06:02.:06:05.

leader hopes to break up as the MP for the seat he described as the

:06:06.:06:09.

Brexit capital of Britain but instead Paul Nuttall faces a fight

:06:10.:06:12.

to restore his credibility after managing a modest increase in his

:06:13.:06:19.

party's vote share in Stoke. One expert said that perhaps all is not

:06:20.:06:24.

lost for Ukip. In terms of Paul Nuttall personally, he had a

:06:25.:06:29.

difficult campaign in Stoke-on-Trent. I'm not sure I'd say

:06:30.:06:34.

yet that the idea of Ukip going after Labour in the heartlands

:06:35.:06:36.

businesses assembly the wrong strategy because Labour has a

:06:37.:06:40.

weakness in an area where Ukip have strength, so clearly there will be

:06:41.:06:45.

some potential upside there and it doesn't seem like a bad strategy,

:06:46.:06:48.

but the problem is that they aren't executing on it. Theresa May will no

:06:49.:06:53.

doubt allow herself a modest celebration this weekend. But one

:06:54.:06:57.

admirer says that when the going seems easy, a wise leader makes

:06:58.:07:02.

preparations for more difficult times. The biggest problem you have

:07:03.:07:07.

when you are very strong is that you can't imagine a moment when you

:07:08.:07:10.

might not be and therefore you don't plan for it. The long-term strategic

:07:11.:07:15.

challenge for the Conservative Party, with younger voters and more

:07:16.:07:19.

diverse voters and urban voters because you are doing so well

:07:20.:07:23.

because you're winning, you forget that you have to keep renewing your

:07:24.:07:27.

appeal, you have to keep modernising the party. You can do that by some

:07:28.:07:34.

extent with instinct but you require deliberate strategic moves. Our

:07:35.:07:38.

Prime Minister is for the moment Britain's unchallenged empress. She

:07:39.:07:44.

will need no reminding of the role of the Roman slave who whispered to

:07:45.:07:50.

the triumphant general to be wary of hubris, remember, you are mortal.

:07:51.:07:53.

The shadow foreign secretary is Emily Thornberry and she joins me

:07:54.:07:57.

Good evening. You've held Copeland since 1935, widely due lose it? It

:07:58.:08:10.

has always been a marginal, it has always been a fight, we had a

:08:11.:08:16.

majority of 2000 and there were particular factor is happening in

:08:17.:08:20.

the constituency. The biggest employer was Sellafield and the

:08:21.:08:23.

Tories were putting out leaflets saying that Jeremy is against

:08:24.:08:27.

nuclear power. That came up on the doorstep all the time. Even though

:08:28.:08:32.

we had conversations and said we were in favour of nuclear power: we

:08:33.:08:36.

couldn't have enough conversations to allay peoples fears, so that was

:08:37.:08:39.

a major factor. The health service came up. I don't want to burst your

:08:40.:08:45.

bubble, I know you've had fun with that clip, but come on, Theresa May

:08:46.:08:50.

was raised on the doorstep by people who pointed out that when she

:08:51.:08:53.

visited the constituency she had been asked four Times about the

:08:54.:08:57.

future of the hospital maternity unit and failed to answer. The

:08:58.:09:02.

concern is whether she sees it as a green light to close the maternity

:09:03.:09:07.

used it -- maternity unit at that hospital? That's leave that aside.

:09:08.:09:13.

Jeremy Corbyn, there is this big thing about him being a man of

:09:14.:09:17.

principle but the point is, in his leadership campaign in 2015 he said

:09:18.:09:23.

was he -- he was against new nuclear because it created Dicko problems.

:09:24.:09:35.

-- eco problems. Is he saying he is pro-nuclear now? The people in

:09:36.:09:38.

Sellafield didn't believe him. It wasn't fake news, they didn't

:09:39.:09:44.

believe him. What he did, after the nuclear disaster in Japan he said

:09:45.:09:47.

that if we close down the nuclear power plant and invested in new

:09:48.:09:53.

energy, renewables, then we could fill the gap. That hasn't happened

:09:54.:09:57.

and that's why he says now we need to make sure that we keep the lights

:09:58.:10:02.

on, we have a commitment to closing down our carbon emissions, we need

:10:03.:10:09.

to be able to cut them down so we must invest in Sellafield and

:10:10.:10:16.

elsewhere, which he committed to add Theresa May didn't. And now whether

:10:17.:10:19.

the result was a disaster for the party. Was it a disaster for the

:10:20.:10:25.

Labour Party? I think it was really disappointing, we had a really good

:10:26.:10:28.

candidate and we had a good ground campaign and we lost and we are very

:10:29.:10:33.

disappointed. Dave Prentice, the Unison boss who is traditionally a

:10:34.:10:38.

bit supporter of Jeremy Corbyn, called the result disastrous. Is he

:10:39.:10:45.

wrong? I think it is disappointing, disastrous is too high a bar, I

:10:46.:10:49.

don't think it was a disaster. There were particular factors, the

:10:50.:10:54.

confusion about Jeremy's attitude towards Sellafield was important. A

:10:55.:10:58.

lot of people rely on it for their jobs, high skilled jobs. Even though

:10:59.:11:02.

we try to make it clear what the position of the Labour Party was...

:11:03.:11:06.

The candidate's husband works in the nuclear industry, we tried to cut

:11:07.:11:11.

through the false news and stories being put around about the Labour

:11:12.:11:15.

Party policy but we weren't able to and that's disappointing. Would you

:11:16.:11:19.

say that Jeremy Corbyn is the problem? I would say that the

:11:20.:11:24.

messages we have are absolutely the right ones and we must make

:11:25.:11:28.

ourselves sharper in terms of getting the messages out. Jeremy

:11:29.:11:33.

Corbyn said there was no question to answer when he was asked whether he

:11:34.:11:37.

was a problem. Is that incredibly arrogant when the people of Copeland

:11:38.:11:40.

clearly didn't believe he was on their side and he didn't allay their

:11:41.:11:46.

fears? He didn't seem to take any responsibility at all for what

:11:47.:11:51.

happened in Copeland. I think it was down to local issues and it was down

:11:52.:11:55.

to whether or not we could convince local people that we were in favour

:11:56.:12:00.

of the major employer of the area. It's quite and the standard ball. We

:12:01.:12:04.

ran a good campaign on the house service -- quite understandable. My

:12:05.:12:09.

concern is whether Theresa May sees this as a green light to close down

:12:10.:12:13.

the maternity unit, but if she does she will have problems in Copeland

:12:14.:12:16.

because people are loving arms about it. You had five by-elections and

:12:17.:12:22.

you have dropped votes in every single one. Corbyn's personal

:12:23.:12:28.

ratings, -40, with every age group and region and social class, net

:12:29.:12:36.

unfavourable to Labour Party voters as well. How bad does it have to

:12:37.:12:41.

get? We have to fight on the issues and make sure that we make it clear

:12:42.:12:45.

to people that the Tory government don't have the answers to the

:12:46.:12:49.

problems that we face today. But if Jeremy Corbyn your leader can't do

:12:50.:12:52.

that, then he has a problem because he's been in his position for quite

:12:53.:12:56.

some time and if he can't make it clear, who can? If he doesn't think

:12:57.:13:01.

he's a problem, perhaps he is deluded? If you think politics is

:13:02.:13:11.

down to sop up, one person against another, quoting Latin that one

:13:12.:13:16.

leader, you are playing it in this way. I would like to talk about

:13:17.:13:20.

issues and what makes a difference in people's lives and what makes a

:13:21.:13:24.

difference is having the sort of government that will address the

:13:25.:13:28.

concerns of people, has some solutions. This government does not

:13:29.:13:32.

and we must make clear that we are the alternatives and we have

:13:33.:13:37.

alternative solutions that will work. It must be not laid at the

:13:38.:13:42.

door of one individual. But he is your leader. David Miliband has said

:13:43.:13:45.

that Labour is in the weakest position it has been in in 50 years

:13:46.:13:49.

and it doesn't get much more damning than that. We need to make sure that

:13:50.:13:56.

we have the answers to people's problems now. But you don't,

:13:57.:14:01.

clearly. We must make clear that we have those answers and we must keep

:14:02.:14:09.

working at it. You keep repeating that, when people in Copeland are

:14:10.:14:13.

listening... You keep asking the same question. You say you have to

:14:14.:14:19.

work at things but this was a major by-election for you come in a seat

:14:20.:14:25.

you've held for 35 years, albeit the majority is 2500. You would think

:14:26.:14:28.

that this is a seat that is naturally your territory and you

:14:29.:14:32.

couldn't hold on. And you say Jeremy Corbyn has nothing to do with the

:14:33.:14:38.

result? The whole picture, there were two by-elections and in Stoke,

:14:39.:14:43.

where Ukip said that this was a moment when they were going to win

:14:44.:14:47.

the Brexit capital of Britain, they were going to use it as a launch pad

:14:48.:14:51.

to attack Labour in its working class seats in the north of England,

:14:52.:14:55.

that's what they said, that's how it was built, people said Ukip were

:14:56.:15:02.

going to win, or the Tories... The Labour vote went down in Stoke. And

:15:03.:15:09.

we won the by-election, Kirsty. But that is naturally your territory.

:15:10.:15:18.

And Copeland... And Copeland was a marginal, it was a marginal with

:15:19.:15:23.

local factors. We've discussed Sellafield and the problems we had

:15:24.:15:26.

in relation to Sellafield and that is the picture, that is a truthful

:15:27.:15:31.

picture. You can quote Latin and put on as many silly programmes and

:15:32.:15:35.

clips as you want, but let's look at the issues and the difference

:15:36.:15:39.

between the two seats and the fights we had. We had a pivotal moment in

:15:40.:15:44.

Stoke and I think you should talk about that too. We will, thank you.

:15:45.:15:48.

Labour drew some comfort in Stoke - where the Labour candidate Gareth

:15:49.:15:51.

Snell saw off the new Ukip chairman Paul Nuttall - albeit

:15:52.:15:54.

Cut their majority in half and we've unified the party like never before

:15:55.:16:01.

But Stoke was dubbed the Brexit capital in the referendum,

:16:02.:16:10.

where working class voters had voted in their droves to leave the EU.

:16:11.:16:14.

So why did Ukip not do better, and with their new leader at the helm?

:16:15.:16:18.

With us is Neil Hamilton, Welsh Assembly member,

:16:19.:16:19.

Could you explain why you did so badly in Stoke? We didn't do badly.

:16:20.:16:35.

As you said, we had a modest increase in our vote. We got 25% of

:16:36.:16:40.

the vote and beat the Conservatives into third place. But that was an

:16:41.:16:43.

area where you did strongly in the referendum and you were not able to

:16:44.:16:48.

capitalise on the, even with your new leader. It is a mistake to

:16:49.:16:51.

believe that just because people vote for Brexit, they will vote for

:16:52.:16:52.

Ukip. There were people in our own party

:16:53.:17:00.

who made that mistake, and expectations were raised

:17:01.:17:02.

unrealistically. We could have won in Stoke if there had been tactical

:17:03.:17:06.

voting by the Tories to defeat Labour. That is what happened in

:17:07.:17:10.

Copeland, because the Ukip vote in Copeland was squeezed and went to

:17:11.:17:16.

the Tories, so they won the seat. It didn't happen in Stoke, so we just

:17:17.:17:21.

failed to win it. We made a modest increase in our support and we

:17:22.:17:26.

fought on the ground the biggest campaign Ukip has ever fought in a

:17:27.:17:32.

by-election. Let's just say that Ukip's finest moment was when you

:17:33.:17:36.

drove a vote on the referendum. You might say that your finest moment

:17:37.:17:40.

was when you got the Brexit majority. No shame in saying job

:17:41.:17:45.

done. But Ukip is far more than just a pressure group to take Britain out

:17:46.:17:52.

of Europe. In the Welsh assembly, we fought an election last May and we

:17:53.:17:57.

got seven members elected. We hold the balance of power in the Welsh

:17:58.:18:01.

assembly, and all the issues we debate our domestic issues. Ukip now

:18:02.:18:05.

has to refocus itself, because after we leave the EU in two years' time,

:18:06.:18:10.

we will be operating in a domestic UK context. What will the focus of

:18:11.:18:15.

Ukip be to separate it from the other parties come and do you have a

:18:16.:18:19.

problem given that you have one spinster MP in Douglas Carswell that

:18:20.:18:23.

you don't talk to? I talk to Douglas a lot, actually -- one Westminster

:18:24.:18:29.

MP. We have policies, such as, we would like to take 8 billion out of

:18:30.:18:33.

the foreign aid budget and put that into the NHS. We would like to cut

:18:34.:18:38.

300 quid off everybody's household electricity bills by stopping

:18:39.:18:41.

subsidies for wind farms etc. We would like to democratise the health

:18:42.:18:44.

service and we want a return to grammar schools. We have a range of

:18:45.:18:49.

policies which we think will be vote winners. Labour is clearly in

:18:50.:18:53.

terminal decline. To have lost a seat like Copeland, to have

:18:54.:19:01.

converted the content -- Stoke-on-Trent Central from a safe

:19:02.:19:09.

seat to a position where they got only 37%, Ukip had no votes 25 years

:19:10.:19:15.

ago and now we have 25%. Would you accept that going after the Labour

:19:16.:19:20.

vote doesn't work any more? Of course it works. Stoke-on-Trent

:19:21.:19:23.

Central is one seat, but it was number 72 on our target list. There

:19:24.:19:29.

are 71 seats that are higher on the target list. In different parts of

:19:30.:19:34.

the country, Ukip will do better or worse. Labour are obviously very

:19:35.:19:39.

catering a position in the political system -- they are vacating the

:19:40.:19:43.

position they have traditionally held, and Ukip are ready to move

:19:44.:19:45.

into that void. Few would demur from the idea

:19:46.:19:46.

that this was a critical day for Jeremy Corbyn -

:19:47.:19:49.

even if he resolutely denies it. But what about the man

:19:50.:19:52.

who was one of the first What shape does he think

:19:53.:19:54.

Labour's in now? Here's a Viewsnight

:19:55.:19:57.

from the New Statesman The by-elections aren't

:19:58.:19:59.

the end of Corbyn. Since Jeremy Corbyn was elected,

:20:00.:20:06.

commentators on the right and the left have lined up

:20:07.:20:09.

to predict that this event that We're joined by John Rentoul,

:20:10.:20:14.

who is Chief Political Commentator at The Independent, Ava Vidal,

:20:15.:21:49.

who is a comedian and writer and Fraser Nelson,

:21:50.:21:53.

who is the editor of The Spectator. First of all, how healthy a state do

:21:54.:22:06.

you think politics is in at the moment? Pretty healthy. An effective

:22:07.:22:10.

opposition? Well, no, but that is not how you judge a healthy

:22:11.:22:17.

democracy. You can see parties changing to the circumstances. The

:22:18.:22:20.

Conservatives have reoriented after Brexit. Theresa May is less popular

:22:21.:22:26.

the further north in the country you go. -- she is more popular the

:22:27.:22:37.

further north you go. You are seeing some sign of life in the dead Lib

:22:38.:22:44.

Dem body. And the Labour Party is is it's own personal agony right now.

:22:45.:22:48.

Ukip, you see them trying to supplant Labour as the party of the

:22:49.:22:56.

working class, but failing in Stoke. But it is interesting, this idea

:22:57.:23:05.

that the 48% of the population voted to remain. But who is the effective

:23:06.:23:10.

innit effective voice for them? It is not Labour. It was Tony Blair.

:23:11.:23:17.

But his position is not the position that the Labour Party can adopt. He

:23:18.:23:26.

can articulate it well. And take the blame for Copeland? Well, no. They

:23:27.:23:34.

have tried to blame everything - the weather, Peter Mandelson, Tony

:23:35.:23:38.

Blair, all the rest of it, all events in the Labour Party going

:23:39.:23:43.

back to the 1950s. Copeland was a disaster. And the Labour Party is

:23:44.:23:47.

going to have to deal with that. How does the Labour Party deal with

:23:48.:23:53.

that? Jeremy Corbyn resolutely, even in the face of John McDonnell and

:23:54.:23:57.

Dave Prentice, refuses to think that this disaster is anything to do with

:23:58.:24:03.

him. It is partly because of him, because of the way he has been

:24:04.:24:06.

treated. From the minute he stepped into power, he has consistently been

:24:07.:24:11.

undermined within his own party and by the press. Even tonight, when you

:24:12.:24:16.

introduce, you said the Corbyn supporters are still clinging on to

:24:17.:24:19.

hope. The way you framed that is the way it is constantly friend when it

:24:20.:24:25.

comes to Jeremy. You just lost a massive by-election. He has not just

:24:26.:24:30.

lost a massive by-election. The figures for Labour were going down

:24:31.:24:34.

in Copeland. Lee Young wrote a fantastic piece in the Independent

:24:35.:24:39.

today. He pointed out that the figures for Labour were going down

:24:40.:24:44.

in Copeland since Tony Blair's days. And Labour had not done anything

:24:45.:24:45.

about it. That is the point. A Labour minister called it a great

:24:46.:25:04.

position to be in. Said what? Kat Smith said the result in Stoke was

:25:05.:25:09.

an extraordinary achievement. I was talking about Copeland. But I do

:25:10.:25:11.

think that was a good achievement, because the way that everybody was

:25:12.:25:17.

speaking, everyone had believed that Ukip stood a chance up there. So the

:25:18.:25:22.

fact that Labour held onto the seat, but how they did is a -- another

:25:23.:25:30.

matter. Jeremy Corbyn has led the fight starts here, and it obviously,

:25:31.:25:35.

he voted in the lobbies with Theresa May on the question of article 50,

:25:36.:25:38.

so it is a bit late to stop the fight. People don't think

:25:39.:25:41.

necessarily that this behaviour shows someone ready for a fight. But

:25:42.:25:47.

if you look at the results, take Stoke, a very pro-Brexit

:25:48.:25:51.

constituency. They had a very pro-Remain Labour MP who actually

:25:52.:25:54.

won and Ukip hardly did very well at all. He's talking about the fight

:25:55.:26:00.

starts here. It is not as if Brexit has completely changed politics. It

:26:01.:26:03.

has shipped it a bit, but if Brexit was the defining issue, Labour would

:26:04.:26:08.

not have won in Stoke. So from the two elections, we can see a more

:26:09.:26:13.

nuanced picture. I think the Tories would be happy if Labour clung on in

:26:14.:26:18.

Stoke, because they suspect we will cling on to Jeremy Corbyn for

:26:19.:26:23.

longer. Does he want to stay? I don't think he does. He does. All

:26:24.:26:31.

right, he does. But I think he feels a sense of duty.

:26:32.:26:43.

The fact is that people love to paint Jeremy Corbyn as this week

:26:44.:26:52.

leader, clinging on. I don't do any one of us on this panel could take

:26:53.:26:57.

the amount of criticism that Jeremy Corbyn has to take, the amount of

:26:58.:27:00.

backstabbing within his own party. It is made out that he is a weak

:27:01.:27:04.

person. He is a very strong person. You have to be to tolerate what he

:27:05.:27:13.

has had to tolerate every week. He was a complete maverick on the

:27:14.:27:21.

backbenches. He did vote against the Government, but he did it in a

:27:22.:27:25.

respectful way. He's not doing it in the way that people criticise him

:27:26.:27:28.

for. He is not sending around snide e-mails and calling people names. I

:27:29.:27:33.

think Jeremy Corbyn should be stronger. He keeps talking about

:27:34.:27:37.

nicer politics. If he doesn't know politics isn't nice by now, I'm

:27:38.:27:43.

sorry. I agree with you. There was no moderate saying he has got to go

:27:44.:27:47.

now. They have been very quiet, because they have worked out that

:27:48.:27:51.

the hard left in Labour hasn't just taken over the leadership, they have

:27:52.:27:55.

taken over the membership as well. So even if you were to come up with

:27:56.:27:58.

the perfect candidate, then the Labour membership as it is now would

:27:59.:28:03.

not have it. The unions are beginning to say Jeremy has to take

:28:04.:28:06.

responsibility for what happens now. A couple of caustic comments do not

:28:07.:28:09.

show that they are losing patience with him. And a lot of Labour Party

:28:10.:28:13.

members would rather that Jeremy Corbyn or someone like him captured

:28:14.:28:18.

the Labour Party and got into power. Not everybody judges Corbyn's

:28:19.:28:21.

success by whether he is knocking on the door of Number Ten. The most

:28:22.:28:27.

important thing is what will happen to the 300,000 members and

:28:28.:28:29.

supporters who voted for Jeremy Corbyn just five months ago. I think

:28:30.:28:33.

a lot of them are beginning to be disillusioned. It may take a long

:28:34.:28:39.

time, but I think they were very upset about Jeremy Corbyn whipping

:28:40.:28:45.

his MPs into the Conservative lobby on the Brexit bill. But not actually

:28:46.:28:52.

chastising those who didn't. But that doesn't matter, that is

:28:53.:28:57.

politics. But losing Copeland was such a serious blow. There will be a

:28:58.:29:04.

state of denial, where Emily Thornberry will say it is a marginal

:29:05.:29:09.

or something. But that was the Government gaining a seat from the

:29:10.:29:12.

opposition, and that doesn't happen in British politics. I think he will

:29:13.:29:20.

go... Before Copeland, he could have survived until the next general

:29:21.:29:23.

election. Now, I don't think so. Either he gives up all the people

:29:24.:29:27.

around him will lose faith in him. It will have to be the people around

:29:28.:29:31.

him that lose faith in him, because while he has the support of so many,

:29:32.:29:35.

he is not going to let them down and go. Thank you all very much.

:29:36.:29:39.

Before we go, the Government announced today that it would be

:29:40.:29:41.

providing an incentive to universities to offer more

:29:42.:29:43.

The move has sparked criticism that students will be rushed

:29:44.:29:46.

through the course material and not have the time and space to really

:29:47.:29:50.

Well, Newsnight has been given a sneak peek

:29:51.:29:53.

at what the new condensed history courses could look like.

:29:54.:29:55.

MUSIC: We Didn't Start The Fire by Billy Joel

:29:56.:29:58.

# South Pacific, Walter Winchell, Joe DiMaggio

:29:59.:30:03.

# Joe McCarthy, Richard Nixon, Studebaker, television

:30:04.:30:05.

# North Korea, South Korea, Marilyn Monroe

:30:06.:30:08.

# Rosenbergs, H-Bomb, Sugar Ray, Panmunjom

:30:09.:30:18.

# Brando, The King And I, and The Catcher In The Rye

:30:19.:30:21.

# Eisenhower, vaccine, England's got a new queen

:30:22.:30:25.

# Marciano, Liberace, Santayana, goodbye

:30:26.:30:28.

# It was always burning since the world's been turning

:30:29.:30:35.

As promised, much calmer today. Having said that, the weather is

:30:36.:30:49.

going downhill for the weekend again. We are not predicting any

:30:50.:30:53.

storms, but the winds will be picking up once more and there is

:30:54.:30:58.

cloud and rain on the way. After a wet morning, it may brighten up

:30:59.:31:01.

across Northern Ireland and Scotland. There will be a few

:31:02.:31:05.

showers around, but the weather is looking better here for the second

:31:06.:31:08.

half of the day. The further south you go, the thicker the club will

:31:09.:31:11.

be. Most of the rain is on

:31:12.:31:12.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS