23/03/2017 Newsnight


With Evan Davis. The latest on the Westminster terror attacks, including an interview with the security minister. Plus Hillary Clinton's campaign manager.

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SPEAKER: In respectful memory of those who lost their lives in


yesterday's attack and of all the casualties of that attack we shall


now observe a minute's silence. Politicians and the public


pay their respects to the victims Khalid Masood was the man


who attacked the heart of London. He had a history of convictions


for violent crimes - Yesterday an act of terrorism tried


to silence our democracy. But today we meet as normal, as generations


have done before us and as future generations will continue to do. To


deliver a simple message - we are not afraid.


We'll ask what - if anything - we can do to stop another


We'll ask the Security Minister if its time for more


And - as Westminster Bridge re-opens we'll try and figure out


The lights behind me turn green, the four by four moves forward and then


it mounts the pavement. That's the moment when it is clear something is


going wrong. The attack has begun. Perhaps the most striking thing


about the man named today as yesterday's attacker is not


that he was British-born - Nor that he had previous


convictions, for public order offences, GBH and possession


of offensive weapons. No, it is his age -


he was 52 years old. That's a different profile to that


of so many other attackers, who are characterised


as young hot-heads. Although that is not believed to be


his birth name. He personally hired the car used


in the attack yesterday. As Richard Watson told us last


night, it came from a branch of Enterprise Car Rental


in Spring Hill, Birmingham. Masood gave his profession


as "Teacher" when renting Well, here is Richard now,


on what we know about the man. Terrorists are usually young, but


the Westminster attack was carried out by one of the world's oldest,


British citizen Khalid Masood. At 52 he was positively middle-aged.


Khalid Masood was born in Kent on Christmas Day 1964. There is no


birth listed with those details. Police say he used a number of


aliases. He had a range of convictions. His first was in


November 1983 for criminal damage. Others included GBH, possession of


offensive weapons and public order offences. The last was for


possession of a knife in December 2003. Police think he had been most


recently living in the West Midlands. Police were searching for


clues at a number of properties today. There were raids overnight in


Birmingham in the Ladywood and Winson Green areas of the city.


There has also been police activity in Wales, Forest gate in east


London, Surrey and Sussex with eight arrests. In Birmingham where one


woman was convinced that the man on the stretcher Khalid Masood, was her


neighbour, who moved away two to three months ago. I spoke to him


just once but it was just how are you? Not much conversation. He was a


calm person. I feel terrorised and scared because I've lived in this


house for 12 years and nothing like this has happened before and I could


never imagine, I saw those things on the TV. The Enterprise car hire


depot in Spring Hill, Birmingham, last night Newsnight revealed


research by a team at Kings College London that showed the car used in


the attack was hired from here. Using open source methodology we


found out that the car was first registered in Essex, was then


transferred over to Birmingham with Enterprise, the Spring Hill branch


where it was rented on the 16th of March by Khalid Masood, six days


before the attack which obviously begs the question, what was


happening in the meantime? One focus for police is the missing six days,


the car's movements. What I can confirm is that the man


was British-born and that some years ago he was once investigated by MI5


in relation to concerns about violent extremism. He was a


peripheral figure. The case is historic. He was not part of the


current intelligence picture. There was no prior intelligence of his


intent or the plot, intensive investigations continue. This very


early admission that Khalid Masood was on the radar seems to be an


attempt to take the sting out of any criticism. Security sources also


told us he was a peripheral figure. Newsnight understands MI5 has


started a systematic re-evaluation of intelligence on Masood.


The language is striking force of the term peripheral was also used to


describe the London bombers Mohammad Sidique Khan. This programme


revealed that in 2005 Mohammad Sidique Khan featured in MI5


surveillance into an earlier plot and when that story was confirmed


much later in a visual report he was once again described as a peripheral


figure. You can see why they are sensitive.


Security sources have told Newsnight that more than 3000 people in the UK


are persons of interest in relation to violent extremism. Many will be


low risk but sifting the wheat from the chaff is a huge challenge. The


fact that the security service cannot offer 100% protection from


such attacks in a liberal democracy is now an admission officials


realise must be made and made early. Richard Watson there.


Joining me is the former Head of the National Counter


Terrorism Security Office, Chris Phillips.


And Anas Altikriti, who's founder and CEO


Before we go further, the age, Chris, surprised, 52? It's unusual


but it is not out of the ordinary. In other countries we have had


people of an old age but yes, it is unusual. It is unusual for a reason,


that you tend to think the younger ones are just more prone to be


radicalised, have more of an open mind to be brainwashed or whatever.


Whether or not he has been brainwashed, or whether he is


suffering from some sort of mental illness that is quite feasible as


well. It is quite unusual. Do you also find the age surprising?


Surprising in terms of it being out of sync with the most recent attacks


that we've seen across Europe, probably. But I think that the


playbook on terrorism and the profiles of prospective terrorists,


I think that needs to be re-addressed. It has the hallmarks


of a lone wolf attack. He used very low-tech, very primitive means, he


didn't have any explosives, he didn't have any guns as such, a


kitchen knife and a car which proved deadly in this particular


circumstance, but nonetheless, I think the whole thing needs to be


looked at. We really need to know more about this man. What we know


now is that he was born and bred in Britain and we know that he had a


catalogue of criminal offences. Smaller criminal offences, right.


Let's drill down into this issue of how you prevent, and I use the word


deliberately because that's the name of the government policy for doing


it, how do you prevent people from becoming radicalised, and that is


your department, Anas. We have this dilemma, gently, who you bring into


the Prevent strategy? Only allow mainstream thinkers to help us take


people away from the radicals, or do you allow people who you might call


semi-radical to help woo the people from more extreme radicals? I think


the main problem, you are talking about who to bring into Prevent, I


think Prevent itself is a major problem and successive governments


have proposed strategies that are built on baseless ideas and


information about the community. The Muslim community is a very complex,


very diverse mosaic of all sorts of cultures, backgrounds and traditions


within Islam. Unfortunately Prevent has managed over the past, I would


suggest, since 2005, to alienate more than 90% of that Muslim


community. Therefore, it has proven to be divisive, rather than as we


need today, for the whole community to come together and be in sync with


the whole British public in finding this quite offensive... I know that


David Cameron thought your group, he called you a political front for the


Muslim Brotherhood and didn't want you to be used by the state to help


sway people from more radical views. Do you see there is a dilemma that


there are lots of people in the mainstream Muslim world whose views


are acceptable and some whose views are abhorrent to most British


people? It depends whether we are talking about political views. I


think this is where for instance David Cameron found my organisation


to be distasteful to him, and why for instance we are being shut out


from any kind of consultation. Not that we are actively seeking it, we


are busy enough. But the problem is you either talk to people who are


either engaged on the streets and who get to meet the vulnerable pool


of people who might be driven, and might be attracted to extremism and


radicalism, or if you wish you can talk to those who say the things you


like, who stand by the politics of government. That's the dilemma. The


problem is we are facing what I would suggest is quite a serious


threat and governments need to rise above the churlishness honoured to


be honest. So in a word... Saying I don't like what you think and


therefore I will not engage with you. So you would engage more


widely? Not more widely but with the people that matter, even though they


might harbour political views the government disagrees with. Chris


Kermode let's talk about the security aspect of this. First of


all, would you consider this an intelligence failure? The fact he


was known and not being watched, is that by definition an intelligence


failure? No, absolutely not, and there will be a rush to blame people


for this, as there always is, and we must steer away from it. This is a


person that has passed among many years ago, involved in violence. May


have been on the periphery of terrorism in some way. There are too


many people with that profile for you to watch them all? Literally


thousands. If you think of surveillance on one person for 24


hours is going to be 850 person police officer job, we haven't got


enough police officers in the world to do that. -- a 50 person police


officer job. A lot of people were surprised it was a protection


officer who shot him rather than one of the police at the Palace of


Westminster. You need to understand how the Palace of Westminster works.


The police are there almost as guests of the Parliamentary team and


have to carry the weapons they are given to some extent. Yes, it's


interesting that there wasn't the machine gun guys nearby. But, of


course, this was a success actually for the security of the Palace. He


didn't get in. He walked five or six yards and was taken out. What would


change? If you asked the police, guys, what would you do? What would


you change? Would you say more guns and more armed officers? More


Tasers? What do you think? The average officer is now moving


towards being armed, however, there is an inclination to say we don't


need to go down that route yet. The most important thing is there is


enough resources given to the police to do the job properly.


Tasers are an interesting one because if this officer had had a


Taser, dealing with a knife attack is quite feasible. How many officers


have tasers? A small amount who are on response teams, the important


thing is to realise there are less officers on the street now than ever


before and if this attack had happened anywhere but the most


policed building in the country the results would have been different.


We need to leave it there. Anas and Chris, thank you.


After the 7/7 attack 12 years ago now, when the names of victims


emerged, it was one of the first occasions that you could register


just how international London had become; so many


Well, yesterday's attack hit a tourist site, and it is not


surprising that the victims there came from 11


One man from Utah was among the dead, Kurt Cochran.


And one British woman with a Spanish background also died - Aysha Frade.


Boris Johnson was at the UN in New York today, and said


the attack on London, was an attack on the world.


John Sweeney has the story of what happened yesterday


The horror started at 2:40pm. 24 hours on Westminster Bridge is open.


But it's time to try and understand what happened here as best we can.


The lights behind me turned green, the four by four moves forward and


then it mounts the pavement. That's the moment when its clear something


is going wrong. The attack has begun. The car was a four by four,


Khalid Masood behind the wheel. The four by four is accelerating hard


and here it hits the first group of people. There is an American


standing here and he is hit so hard he is thrown over this wall. Kurt


Cochran was in London to celebrate his 25th wedding anniversary. His


wife was injured but survived. His death was announced today. I got a


quick look over the wall and see this guideline on the ground. The


doctors arrived two seconds after I see that. Sebastien Ramos, eating


from Colombia, was cycling across the bridge on his way home. He was


not moving. I stared at him for 20, 30 seconds and he just did not move.


He was so white. Watch the white circle moving from right to left,


that is Khalid Masood's four by four barrelling along the pavement at


high speed. There's been an accident, a car has just mown down


about three people on Westminster Bridge. People start calling 999 and


hurrying to help the injured. Almost every tourist who comes to London


comes to Westminster Bridge. This is one of the great selfie spots in


London. There is a group of people here, among them a remaining


architect. She is with a bloke in London, it's his birthday. And then


this second group of people are ploughed through by Khalid Masood.


This is the moment when she is thrown or jumps off the bridge. She


was seen floating down the river but was rescued. Her condition is


critical. Today Londoners and the world came to pay their respects.


Three dead on the bridge at least. Why choose here? It would strike at


the very heart of our democracy, the seat of our democracy at the Houses


of Parliament. Plus maybe the tourist factor. This is always a


honeypot for tourists. It's a beautiful bridge, beautiful setting.


And that was possibly his motives. So at this point Khalid Masood had


been driving at speed for 200 metres, maybe more, the length of


Westminster Bridge. He comes here and wipes out a third group of


people. Then there's a security barrier there and he's beginning to


run out of road. My god. He wasn't done. He crashed below Big Ben,


trapping one more bystander against the railings. Yesterday Westminster


Bridge saw cruelty beyond belief, but also something else. As soon as


I get to the bridge, so many people rushed to the victims trying to help


them. The only thing I can do for them is pray for them. The story


ended in Parliament with Masood taking one more life and then it was


the end of him. This old Bridge has seen a lot in its time. Yesterday's


horror was met today with resolution. Life and London goes on.


Before we move on a video has emerged.


Tonight a video has emerged of the Prime Minister being lead


to a car in the House of Commons just moments after the attack.


It's been released by the Sun newspaper.


She is surrounded by protection officers.


It is clearly a very tense situation.


This morning she was back in the Commons.


She said it would be open for business this


As you'd expect it was a sombre occasion as MPs paid their respects


to the victims of yesterday's attack.


Members on all sides paid tribute to Keith Palmer -


and to those who fought so valiantly to save him.


We shall now observe a minute's silence.


A police officer, PC Keith Palmer, was killed defending us,


defending Parliament and defending Parliamentary democracy.


He was every inch a hero and his actions will never be forgotten.


PC Keith Palmer, who I first met 25 years ago as Gunner Keith Palmer


at Headquarters Battery 100 Regiment, Royal Artillery.


He was a strong, professional public servant.


And it was a delight to meet him here again only a few months


Not only did he show huge professionalism in putting his past


training to the use and the hope that he had of rescuing


the life of PC Keith Palmer, but of course it was in the middle


of a terrorist attack and our right honourable friend


is somebody who knows the trauma and tragedy of losing somebody


This attacker and people like him are not of my religion,


nor are they of our community, and we should condemn


all of them who pretend to be of a particular religion,


If they were of religion they would not be carrying


We have to stay united and show them that they can't win on these grounds


This was an horrific crime and it has cost lives and caused injury.


But as an act of terror it has failed.


It has failed because we are here and we are going to go


Our political editor, Nick Watt, is here.


Parliament, the Palace of Westminster, are there, since that


security, for all the fact he did not get far, are their concerns


about security? There are real concerns about senior MPs and senior


peers that this attack could have been far worse. The BBC reported


that Masood was shot dead light protection officers protecting the


Defence Secretary Michael Fallon. In other words he was not shot by armed


police attached to Parliament. I spoke to one former Cabinet minister


who told me that had those protection officers not been on the


Parliamentary estate, because of course ministers spend most of their


time outside Parliament, then Khalid Masood could have ventured much


further. Interesting in that statement the speaker made pretty


clear there is going to be a lessons learned review launched. The other


question people are asking, he was known to the police and MI5, was


this an intelligence failure? That's what we had in Richard Watson's


report, he was on the MI5 radar a number of years ago in connection


with violent extremism, although he was a peripheral figure. Amber Rudd


this evening told the BBC it would be wrong to blame the intelligence,


MI5 for a failure. The reason why ministers believe there was not an


intelligence failure if they believe that this attack exactly fitted the


mould identified in recent years by Andrew Parker, the MI5


director-general, talking about lone actors launching attacks, almost


impossible to detect. Andrew Parker said these attacks would be of


relatively low sophistication but of course they would be deadly.


Interesting this use of intelligence will be investigated by Parliament


intelligence and Security committee. They are taking the view that Andrew


Parker's warning has clearly come true. Thank you.


Earlier I spoke to the Security Minister - Ben Wallace.


I asked him about reports it was a minister's close protection


officer who shot Masood, and if there had been any other


First of all I'm not going to speculate on the allegations that


you make about who actually was involved in the shooting.


I think what I can certainly say is that anybody who works


there or goes there and I know you've been there yourself,


there are plenty of armed officers around the House of Commons


and House of Lords, both inside and outside and also


the area, the sort of government quarter, there's a whole range


of police forces that cover that area.


Diplomatic protection, Metropolitan Police and other police


and there are plenty of guns available and on show


OK, let's take another area, that of surveillance.


Again it's an area where you need to strike the right balance


between keeping an eye on bad people and respecting individual liberties.


Are you satisfied that balance is right at the moment?


We have, we think, got the balance right.


That's why we passed the Investigatory Powers Act


through Parliament only recently supported by all parties


in the House of Commons and the House of Lords.


But it is a balance that we constantly review.


In law we have to do everything that is proportionate and necessary.


And despite the criticisms we get from a whole range of commentators


and sometimes people in the media will say that the surveillance state


Actually from what I see first hand, our surveillance officers


and police absolutely stick to that law and try their very best to make


It's a big challenge and a big responsibility for those people.


It is, but you take someone like Khalid Masood, who is known


to the police but not thought to be so risky that needs


Is there a category of person into which he would have fallen where


you will now say we should be erring on the side of keeping a closer


That is a general principle about to what extent we decide


to put people under surveillance and have that public debate,


which is what we did during the Investigatory Powers Act.


A number of people have come to the High Court and even


It's not about the act, it's about the resources


you are willing to put into following those people


No, no, it's actually about the legal framework


I ask regularly our intelligence services and police if they have


enough resources in the area of counterterrorism specifically.


That's why we gave them a 30% real terms increase on counterterrorism


funding across Whitehall to deal with the problem.


We police by consent in this society and we have to try


and make the balance of what is politically possible.


Some of my colleagues are authoritarian,


These things wouldn't get through Parliament unless we try


and seek a balance to make sure the law is in place to do the job.


And I think this is something that's really important


about intelligence here and it happens all too frequently.


A long time ago I was an intelligence officer


in Northern Ireland, I dealt with intelligence


Intelligence is not 100% perfect, it's often scraps or tiny


And intelligence officers and police have to try and stick those together


and make judgments on very often impartial information.


Those judgments are high risk, often, but more often


than not they get it right, and no one ever does programmes


about the 400 pieces of intelligence that were dealt with correctly


They always try and see or make allegations


I wasn't implying it was an intelligence failure.


I'm just asking whether there's a lesson to be learnt from this.


Both on guns and surveillance your answer has been, effectively,


you are fairly satisfied with where we are.


And I suppose the question that leads me to is whether we just have


to accept there is a certain inevitability about the odd lone


wolf attackers wielding great harm using weapons like cars or knives?


Well, we have consistently said it's not a matter if but when.


We have dealt with terrorism in this country for decades.


Originally, from all over the world, including in my childhood


Northern Irish terrorism, and now obviously international


We have always said, look, we know these things are very


Some of the threats are very hard to stop.


If somebody wants to suddenly change their mind, get in a car,


or grab a knife and stab the first person next to them,


it's a real challenge of how we are going to deal with that.


That's why we've invested in our intelligence services


and some of the surveillance capabilities that we often


But it's also why we try and make sure the public are involved in this


debate because it is community, it is neighbours and friends


and parents and teachers that can help prevent people


being radicalised in the first place, or make a call


to the police or local authority if they are worried about how


And that's how we are really going to make sure we minimise the risk.


Is making sure the public and communities of all faiths,


all up and down this country, engage with our security services


That's how we will prevent people becoming radicalised and how


we will protect the public and reduce the risk.


It is inevitable that every atrocity prompts a discussion about how


we can do things differently, to obstruct those


Now this makes for difficult decisions - you'll hear the claim


that we mustn't yield to terror by changing our lives -


but of course over the years we have altered things -


the rules of what we take on planes, security at buildings.


So are there lessons to be drawn from yesterday's attack,


in Antwerp today, when a car accelerated at a crowd


Our policy editor, Chris Cook, looks at whether we can design


cities that are safer against these attacks.


Yesterday's attack began with a card being used as a weapon against


pedestrians on Westminster Bridge. Today in Antwerp the authorities


believe they have prevented a similar attack. Last year truck


attacks killed 98 people in Nice and Berlin. So, can we make our cities


safer against weaponised vehicles? When you hear about hardening cities


against attack by terrorists you might think of the ugly concrete


blocks that appear at events in London like the one happening


tonight in memory of the victims of yesterday's attack. But actually a


lot of the hardening of our urban environments is quite subtle. This


is the Cabinet Office, the centre of our government. It has a wall


running in front of most of it which looks like old crumbly sandstone but


it's actually a high-tech barrier that would stop they lorry. The UK


worried about this for years, this is a 7.5 tonne truck taking part in


a regular test at the transport research laboratory in Berkshire.


This is a long-standing issue in urban design. We even have very


clearly defined strengthening standards for by Lance. One of the


things that's been going on for a long time now is the creation of


hard landscaping to provide a barrier between the roads and


pedestrians -- by Lance. These can be in the form of large stone


structures we can see her in Whitehall and steel bollards most of


us appreciate are there to stop vehicles getting onto pavements. But


also things like landscaping in the form of planters, or belts of


landscaping, anything that provides what is called stand-off between


vehicles and buildings and pedestrians. There are, though,


limits to what we can do with hardened environments. The concept


of target hardening has some practical limitations. You cannot


paralyse an entire city by putting barriers, or closing off entire


areas to transit without having any impact on the transport and daily


life of a city. On the other hand you are incurring the risk of


displacing the threat somewhere else. The entire city cannot be a


fortress so if a terrorist realises about an area is too hard to hit


they will just move the attention somewhere else.


So, in the end, the answer has to be stopping assaults. How, though, do


you stop people whose plans need so little planning?


Obviously you have to continue to beef up intelligence. But


intelligence is not necessarily end of the technological spectrum,


trying to track chatter in the Middle East and that sort of stuff,


which is useful but probably not terribly relevant to the sort of


things which happened in Nice last year and possibly in London


yesterday. But what I would call community intelligence. But in


French we would call renseignement de


proximite. It depends how much we are prepared to put up with. Chris


Cooke, there. Well, there is a pattern


to the reaction in major It reflects the fact


that there is something more traumatic for a population,


about death and injury at the hands of someone trying to do harm,


than in the normal urban routine. You've seen the same defiance,


sentiment and unity in Paris, Brussels and in London,


and there was a vigil at Trafalgar Square this evening,


and I went down to talk to people Well, the short ceremony


is over, the vigil is over. We heard words from Amber Rudd,


the Home Secretary, from the Mayor A familiar message about how London


will and should react to events And then the silence observed not


just by the many people in the square but of course


by the lack of traffic around. I think it's that sense


of solidarity with being a Londoner. I've lived here for about 20 years,


I love the diversity of this city. What happened yesterday


was a horrendous thing. You can't let it put up barriers


against people who are different. You've just got to come together


and that's happened here. My heart goes out to the victims


who have tragically lost their lives And I actually live in Birmingham


and I actually drove past this particular place that was raided


yesterday, and I work in London, so I thought I'd come


and pay my respects today. I think as a Londoner you do feel


connected and you want to be with fellow Londoners


at a time like this. But I also feel that at the same


time it reminds me of everyone who's under these kind of attacks


around the world. Obviously when terrible things


happen like what happened yesterday it's sometimes very difficult


to kind of continue to feel positive about how


we can work together. But I personally have faith


in people to continue Today I was expecting


most of us to be Muslims But when I see different cultures


standing for that thing, It shows you that


still the world is OK. The scenes at the Trafalgar Square


vigil earlier. Richard Watson, who you heard from the programme today


and yesterday, briefly joins me. Richard, more information in the


last few minutes about Khalid Masood. That's right, this wire copy


has dropped and the BBC has confirmed the name of Khalid Masood


and this is a story the Daily Mail were running, it wasn't confirmed


until now but now the BBC has confirmed it, his birth name was


Adrian elms, born in Dartford in Kent and lived at various times in


Rye, Crawley, West Sussex, Eastbourne in East Sussex, the BBC


confirms this is a man who has been convicted of knife crime offences --


Adrian Elms. That tallies with information put out by the


Metropolitan Police. This is the first confirmation of that. Richard,


thank you. Let's move on to


another subject now. And Hillary Clinton's


election campaign manager, John Podesta is in London


at the moment, for The Economist Now Podesta's name is perhaps


most famous for the fact that it was his emails that


were hacked, and which caused embarrassment


to the Clinton campaign. But he has a long career in politics


on the Democrat side - he was chief of staff


to President Bill Clinton in the White House under President


Obama. It was Mr Podesta who came


on stage on election night, I met up with him earlier today,


to talk about politics, here and in the US,


and his experience But first, in light of his speech


at the summit, I asked him how the world should respond to any


decision by President Trump to pull The most fundamental


problem is what he's doing in the United States


which is to really attack the fundamental pillars


of environmental protection. He's set the country on a course


that is really ignoring the science and ignoring


the tremendous cost that the United States


and of course the world will be faced


with as a result of climate change. You happen to be


in London at the time horrendous incident in Westminster


yesterday. should react to these


atrocities? Look, I think you have to do


everything you can to protect to justice the people who are


responsible. I know that the assailant


was killed yesterday but there are others who appear to be


involved and need to be arrested. But I think you also


have to try to retain and be restrained in terms


of retaining your ability to operate


in a free and open way. It's five months now


since the election In a nutshell, what's your account


of why he prevailed? He was able to put together


narrow wins in Wisconsin got him the victory in the electoral


college. He had a little assist from


the Russians as we are finding out more from every day,


and a little assist actually from our


director of the FBI. How do you think liberal America


should react to what we are seeing President Trump


is doing and what he's like in his I think you see it


out on the street. You saw it the day after his


inauguration with the women's march, marches


that took place. And you support that


kind of approach? Absolutely, I'm fully


into the resistance. And what would happen


if there was no resistance? I think that we would see


a growing authoritarianism. And I think we've seen that


played out across other places, particularly


in Eastern Europe, In a way, what you are


describing sounds, well, unprecedented, really,


in the history of democracy. I think we are in a whole


different world with somebody who, to cite


the latest example, When every person who is a member


of his administration from law there's absolutely zero evidence of


that. Well he says, in defence to him,


he says he feels partly vindicated on that because maybe, we


haven't seen the evidence, but maybe No, he said at the


beginning that President Obama ordered tapping


of him, that was a lie. You mentioned the Russian hacking


which was a help to the In the big picture, how big


a difference do you think the Podesta e-mails, how big


a difference to you think they made? One of the things they did,


they kept that whole idea of e-mails So none of the particular


e-mails, many of them hardly got above the radar in


mainstream media, but in the social media there was a kind


of subterranean effect. And I think it laid


the groundwork when Mr Comey came in and reopened


the e-mail investigation. The public confused


and conflated all that and eight days later when he said never mind,


there's nothing to this, it still had a corrosive effect


on the campaign. What did you think as you saw your


words, words sent to you being paraded in


respectable journalists? Did you think they were doing


their job or that they should I was just trying to deal


with it on a daily basis. I thought that the reflection


of where they came from and the fact that there was substantiation that


the Russians had hacked my e-mails, the DNC e-mails, that Wikileaks


was an instrument of an attempt by Vladimir Putin and the Russian


Federation to undermine our democracy, that could have been


reflected in the press and I don't And I think that was actually


a failing on behalf of the mainstream media and particularly


some of the major news outlets in What should the Labour


Party do here? It's in a very low place


in the polls here at the moment. I think that's going to be a process


that's going to have to work itself out with voices arguing


for things that point I think it's not enough to simply be


a voice of opposition if you have no strategy to be


viable or electable again. And ultimately that


will be rewarded. I think the plan is for us to upload


and an edited version of that interview to our YouTube channel


tomorrow. But to finish tonight,


we thought we should return Westminster Bridge is no


ordinary Thames crossing - it is a destination


as well as a transit point. It has wide pavements and a lively


atmosphere, and lovely views. You'll bump into tourists there -


literally, and a lot No-one should let hate-mongers


appropriate its symbolism. So Tom Hollander has come


in to help us reclaim it. Composed upon Westminster Bridge by


William Wordsworth. Earth has not anything


to show more fair: Dull would he be of


soul who could pass by A sight so touching in its majesty:


This City now doth, like a garment, wear The beauty


of the morning; silent, bare, Ships, towers, domes,


theatres, and temples lie Open unto the fields,


and to the sky; All bright and glittering


in the smokeless air. Never did sun more beautifully steep


in his first splendour, valley, rock, or hill; Ne'er saw I,


never felt, a calm so deep! The river glideth


at his own sweet will: The very houses seem


asleep; And all that mighty Good evening. The weekend is just


around the corner and the weather does not look bad, quite promising


for most of the UK with some sunshine in the forecast. In the




In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Evan Davis.

The latest on the Westminster terror attacks, including an interview with the security minister. Plus Hillary Clinton's campaign manager.

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