Article 50 Special Newsnight


Article 50 Special

Similar Content

Browse content similar to Article 50 Special. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

And now the decision to leave has been made, and the process is

:00:16.:00:21.

underway, it is time to come together. There is no reason to

:00:22.:00:30.

pretend that this is a happy day. We are leaving.

:00:31.:00:46.

Control over migration through our own borders and a reassertion of the

:00:47.:00:54.

supremacy of our Parliament. That will happen.

:00:55.:01:05.

The Prime Minister says no deal it is better than a bad deal, but the

:01:06.:01:10.

reality is, no deal is a bad deal. We already miss you. Thank you and

:01:11.:01:19.

goodbye. The clock to exit, has started

:01:20.:01:30.

counting down as we are helpfully To think a year ago, hardly anyone

:01:31.:01:36.

had heard of Article 50, now it is the framework

:01:37.:01:41.

by which our future Welcome to Brussels -

:01:42.:01:43.

We'll head to London later in the programme,

:01:44.:01:48.

and to Berlin. But it is THIS city that has become

:01:49.:01:56.

a by-word in the UK, for bureaucracy and barmy

:01:57.:01:59.

directives, for remote rule Fair or unfair, those

:02:00.:02:01.

associations are now irrelevant. Not for the first time,

:02:02.:02:12.

we are redefining our relationship with the continent that sits 21

:02:13.:02:14.

miles away from us. Theresa May put on a conciliatory

:02:15.:02:18.

tone in the commons today. I have set out a clear and ambitious

:02:19.:02:24.

plan for the negotiations ahead. It is a plan for a new deep

:02:25.:02:27.

and special partnership between A partnership of values,

:02:28.:02:30.

a partnership of interest, a partnership based on cooperation

:02:31.:02:36.

in areas such as security and economic affairs

:02:37.:02:40.

and a partnership that works in the best interests

:02:41.:02:42.

of the United Kingdom, the European Union and the wider

:02:43.:02:46.

world. Because, perhaps now,

:02:47.:02:50.

more than ever, the world needs the liberal democratic

:02:51.:02:53.

values of Europe. "Deep and special partnership"

:02:54.:02:55.

are words she repeated. The British government's letter

:02:56.:03:12.

triggering Article 50 was hand delivered to Donald Tusk -

:03:13.:03:14.

a very nineteenth And that acknowledgement meant,

:03:15.:03:16.

the clock to our exit Unless we agree on something

:03:17.:03:24.

different, it's 730 days away. Not for the first time,

:03:25.:03:31.

we will be separate. You can look back to the Roman

:03:32.:03:35.

empire or the Reformation to see that we have long had an ambivalent

:03:36.:03:38.

relationship with the continent. Perhaps this historic moment fits

:03:39.:03:41.

that historic pattern. Membership actually came after years

:03:42.:03:59.

of dithering. After the war we said no but then we said yes and then the

:04:00.:04:04.

French said no, followed by yes and then we said yes but now we say no.

:04:05.:04:09.

Maybe Brexit is just the latest manifestation of Britain's on-off

:04:10.:04:13.

relationship with the continent, through the centuries we have

:04:14.:04:16.

struggled to settle the matter of how to engage without committing to

:04:17.:04:22.

Europe. We have a tendency to think of Europe as a unified entity on the

:04:23.:04:26.

other side of the channel with which we

:04:27.:04:39.

either engage or do not. It is a frame of mind that comes out of the

:04:40.:04:43.

19th century, the idea of splendid isolation and the idea that we have

:04:44.:04:45.

our own perpetual interest and perpetual enemies and allies. Other

:04:46.:04:48.

nations found solace in the newly constructed European institutions,

:04:49.:04:49.

having lived through a war and crises on their own. The British

:04:50.:04:54.

public never really got behind of Brussels and its ways. Perhaps we

:04:55.:04:59.

confused it with Eurovision, except when we joined the Common Market, it

:05:00.:05:04.

was possible to think that we had settled the matter and we were now

:05:05.:05:11.

taking Europe seriously. # Taking power to all our friends.

:05:12.:05:15.

That very year Cliff Richard came third with power to all our friends,

:05:16.:05:21.

a song for a new constructive era. Back then and that sporadic other

:05:22.:05:26.

bomb moments, you could genuinely think that post-imperial Britain had

:05:27.:05:31.

found a new home for itself here in Brussels, but we were never quite in

:05:32.:05:36.

sync. We were never really all that comfortable. It took a decade for

:05:37.:05:40.

Labour to reluctantly reconcile itself to membership of the Common

:05:41.:05:44.

Market and by then, the Conservatives were turning

:05:45.:05:49.

sceptical. And in our 44 years of EU membership we have had more than 44

:05:50.:05:54.

arguments, over treaties and social chapters, budgets and bent bananas.

:05:55.:05:59.

For any marriage to be durable, the partners have to grow, develop and

:06:00.:06:03.

change together and the Common Market did change. The EEC became

:06:04.:06:08.

the EU, the nine members became 28, the one thing that did not change

:06:09.:06:12.

though, was that British ambivalence. If anything, it grew.

:06:13.:06:18.

Our separation captured by this moment, Gordon Brown signing Bill

:06:19.:06:22.

lives bomb treaty on his own, I'm keen to make a big deal of it. The

:06:23.:06:26.

other member celebrated together, thinking of it as a new constitution

:06:27.:06:32.

for Europe. So now, we forge a new relationship. This is an historic

:06:33.:06:39.

moment, from which there can be no turning back. Britain is leaving the

:06:40.:06:44.

European Union. Can we finally settle the matter once and for all?

:06:45.:06:49.

Good luck with that. At one level you might say that the EU is less

:06:50.:06:54.

binary than it used to be, less about in or out, it can be by

:06:55.:06:58.

curious, dabble in the bits we like, reject the bits we do not like and

:06:59.:07:01.

even the remaining members recognise it is to big for one size fits all,

:07:02.:07:07.

flexibility has to be part of their future. We are all grown-ups, that

:07:08.:07:11.

is the modern way. But, when it comes to us and flexibility, we have

:07:12.:07:16.

only allowed ourselves two years to negotiate something we have been

:07:17.:07:21.

grappling with four two sentries and are we all grown-ups? Human emotion

:07:22.:07:25.

is at play, nowhere more so than in the European Parliament itself. It

:07:26.:07:31.

is going to be complicated. While we have been ambivalent about the EU,

:07:32.:07:36.

over the 44 years, the public have merrily reached out to Europe for

:07:37.:07:43.

business and pleasure. Those auto industry supply chains, testify to

:07:44.:07:47.

deeper links with Europe than to the EU. But the EU might get in the way

:07:48.:07:52.

of those relationships with Europe. In so many areas, from regulation of

:07:53.:07:57.

trade in nuclear materials to rules governing aviation, there is room

:07:58.:08:02.

for the others to cause trouble, without even thinking about trading

:08:03.:08:06.

goods and services. Who knows how it will go. It is now those

:08:07.:08:11.

institutions about which we have been so very ambivalent that will be

:08:12.:08:12.

shaping our future. There are several

:08:13.:08:15.

presidents of the EU - Donald Tusk for the Council,

:08:16.:08:17.

Jean-Claude Juncker And I sat down with the President

:08:18.:08:19.

of the European Parliament, The Parliament does have the power

:08:20.:08:24.

to veto a deal and has suggested Mr Tajani had hot-footed

:08:25.:08:30.

it to me straight from Yes, we had a very good

:08:31.:08:35.

conversation, very constructive. Both we want an agreement,

:08:36.:08:47.

win win and then after the Brexit, our opinion is, we need

:08:48.:08:50.

to have a good cooperation. Tomorrow, the United Kingdom will be

:08:51.:08:55.

outside the European Union, but it will still be Europe,

:08:56.:09:01.

it is important, to work together, You mentioned terrorism,

:09:02.:09:04.

many people say, her letter to you is a threat, it is blackmail,

:09:05.:09:09.

it says we want a deal on the economy and on security

:09:10.:09:13.

and links the two. If Britain links security

:09:14.:09:18.

and economy, how will you react? We need to work

:09:19.:09:23.

for global agreement. General agreement is

:09:24.:09:28.

the most important point. But, the cooperation against

:09:29.:09:31.

the terrorists is a priority. Also, without an agreement in other

:09:32.:09:38.

sectors, we need to cooperate The first issue is money,

:09:39.:09:40.

the bill for the UK to pay. I think millions

:09:41.:09:47.

and millions of euro. And my understanding is we talk

:09:48.:09:55.

about the money and we can also talk about broad principles on our future

:09:56.:09:59.

partnership, correct, Before, we need to achieve

:10:00.:10:00.

an agreement on the Brexit and then, it is possible to decide our future,

:10:01.:10:14.

our good relations, but before we need to decide the divorce,

:10:15.:10:20.

because without the divorce, it is impossible to decide

:10:21.:10:26.

the day after the divorce! We need to know what the UK

:10:27.:10:34.

will give us afterwards. It could be a financial

:10:35.:10:36.

problem for us! Also, financial, but I think

:10:37.:10:41.

it is important to have a good framework before and then,

:10:42.:10:44.

it is possible to achieve a good agreement for the future,

:10:45.:10:48.

but it is important that we have a good

:10:49.:10:50.

framework for the Brexit. Do you think Britain maybe one day

:10:51.:10:57.

will want to come back But, but, we need an agreement

:10:58.:11:00.

with the 27 member states. If the UK wants to change

:11:01.:11:13.

its position, I think What is your message today to 48%

:11:14.:11:23.

of the UK population They are losing their

:11:24.:11:31.

European citizenship, You can sell passports to them,

:11:32.:11:39.

European passports? They are citizens of

:11:40.:11:54.

the United Kingdom, They are European, but they are not

:11:55.:12:00.

citizens of the European Union now. I think we need to respect the vote,

:12:01.:12:08.

the referendum, the democracy, but I think we look at these people,

:12:09.:12:12.

because I think in the UK, there are a lot of pro-European

:12:13.:12:15.

citizens against the Brexit. We need to have good relationships

:12:16.:12:23.

with them in the future. Early 2019, the deal goes

:12:24.:12:26.

to the European Parliament, you have to vote for it

:12:27.:12:33.

or against it, the deal is better than no deal, but not as good

:12:34.:12:36.

as the deal you want. It does not have your red lines,

:12:37.:12:42.

it does not have all Do you vote for it or do

:12:43.:12:45.

you vote against it? I think my personal position,

:12:46.:12:57.

we need to achieve a good agreement. With, the most important point

:12:58.:13:02.

of the European Parliament. The agreement, win-win,

:13:03.:13:04.

is not the agreement. We need to be very pragmatic,

:13:05.:13:08.

but at the same time, we need to strengthen the rights

:13:09.:13:11.

of citizens, not only Europeans, but also the UK citizens,

:13:12.:13:14.

and I think it is possible to achieve this goal, finally,

:13:15.:13:16.

but we need to read the content For all his optimism,

:13:17.:13:19.

I'd say sadness not anger But we'll be back a little

:13:20.:13:41.

later to test that. We'll be back in Brussels later,

:13:42.:13:48.

but now to the day here. Theresa May was on her feet

:13:49.:13:55.

for three hours this afternoon, and struck a tone that looked rather

:13:56.:13:57.

different to some of the bravado There was an acknowledgment

:13:58.:14:00.

that there would be 'consequences' for Britain's departure -

:14:01.:14:04.

perhaps even a tacit And she went further: suggesting

:14:05.:14:06.

in no uncertain terms that failure to reach an agreement would mean

:14:07.:14:11.

Britain's cooperation in the fight How did Security become

:14:12.:14:14.

contingent on trade? Is it the start of dirty talk -

:14:15.:14:20.

either to Europe, Nick Watt our political editor

:14:21.:14:23.

is here - how did you read today? Rule number one of reporting the

:14:24.:14:36.

modern Conservative Party is to be careful of saying it is united on

:14:37.:14:41.

Europe. Eurosceptics were delirious today and pro-Europeans were

:14:42.:14:44.

delighted that the Prime Minister reached out to the EU by saying that

:14:45.:14:49.

the world needs the Liberal democratic values of Europe and that

:14:50.:14:53.

really set the tone for that two-year road to Brexit. One Cabinet

:14:54.:14:58.

minister told me today that we might not actually read the political

:14:59.:15:02.

negotiations until next January. We have the German elections in

:15:03.:15:06.

September and last time it took two months to form a government. That

:15:07.:15:16.

means that we might just have ten months of intense political

:15:17.:15:18.

negotiations before we reach the informal deadline of October, 2018

:15:19.:15:21.

so we can have six months of ratification. Before we get to all

:15:22.:15:27.

of that there is the small matter of triggering article 15. Here is my

:15:28.:15:29.

film on the Prime Minister's day. David Cameron warned if would amount

:15:30.:15:36.

to the gamble of the century. Today, Theresa May was hailed as the person

:15:37.:15:43.

of this century as she showed her hand, nine months after the UK voted

:15:44.:15:49.

to leave the EU. Downing Street has spent months sweating about how to

:15:50.:15:52.

play their hand over the triggering of Article 50. In the end, Britain's

:15:53.:15:59.

ambassador to the EU handed over a relatively short letter which

:16:00.:16:02.

combined words of comfort and words of warning. The Prime Minister's two

:16:03.:16:08.

audiences - eurosceptics in Britain and the remaining 27 members of the

:16:09.:16:13.

EU. To eurosceptics, the Prime Minister hailed a historic moment

:16:14.:16:18.

that will be irreversible, but in a mild toning down of her rhetoric

:16:19.:16:21.

about a sunny Brexit future, she warned of what she called

:16:22.:16:25.

"consequences." Britain won't be present when rules for the European

:16:26.:16:30.

single market are drawn up. To the rest of the EU, the Prime Minister

:16:31.:16:35.

spoke of her desire to forge a deep and special partnership. But there

:16:36.:16:39.

was also an unmistakable warning that failure to agree a UK-EU deal

:16:40.:16:45.

would weaken co-operation in the fight against terrorism. The tone

:16:46.:16:51.

today was, I thought, a little reminder to the European Union that,

:16:52.:16:55.

actually, there is a lot in this for them as much as there is for us if

:16:56.:16:59.

we strike a reasonable agreement. The reality is that the UK actually

:17:00.:17:05.

is needed in a whole lot of areas of the European Union, not just trade,

:17:06.:17:08.

not just co-operation. In that sense, the co-operation on security,

:17:09.:17:13.

intelligence and policing. This message appeared not to be

:17:14.:17:16.

appreciated in the EU where it was seen as something of a threat.

:17:17.:17:22.

Theresa May's Labour redcressor as Home Secretary thought she had

:17:23.:17:25.

another audience in mind. I think the whole of that letter was a

:17:26.:17:32.

warning to her Eurosceptics and a bit on the security was

:17:33.:17:38.

predominantly about that. There were orbits of the letter, warning

:17:39.:17:42.

business that is they won't - they it will have more pew rocky to deal

:17:43.:17:47.

with to trade into the biggest commercial market on our doorstep.

:17:48.:17:50.

There was a hint of realism. Tony Blair in that phrase said it was the

:17:51.:17:55.

swivel eyed ones driving the bus. Maybe Theresa May has wrenched the

:17:56.:18:01.

wheel off of them. One pro-European Tory believes the Prime Minister was

:18:02.:18:05.

thinking of those who have no fear of leaving the EU without a deal. I

:18:06.:18:12.

think it demonstrates the very real adverse consequences of crashing out

:18:13.:18:16.

without a deal. It's showing it's not just about trade and WTO, but

:18:17.:18:20.

it's about losing security co-operation. That is a message for

:18:21.:18:25.

Europe and for those here in the UK who are saying that somehow no deal

:18:26.:18:28.

is a good option. That is one of the things I put to the Prime Minister

:18:29.:18:31.

today. She made it very clear she said - I'm really keen to get a good

:18:32.:18:38.

deal. This was unquestionably a day of high stakes, but our ever

:18:39.:18:41.

cautious Prime Minister went out of her way with messages carefully

:18:42.:18:49.

crafted for her various audiences to Sehwag's no reckless gambler. Nick

:18:50.:18:53.

Watt there. As you heard, Theresa May

:18:54.:18:56.

mentioned security 11 times The EU's chief Brexit negotiator,

:18:57.:18:58.

Guy Verhofstadt, accused the Prime Minister of a threat

:18:59.:19:01.

to weaken security commitments to the EU if Britain

:19:02.:19:04.

was denied a trade deal. So when I spoke earlier

:19:05.:19:06.

to Damien Green, the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions,

:19:07.:19:09.

and one of Theresa May's most trusted colleagues in Cabinet,

:19:10.:19:12.

I started off by asking him It's not a threat, I think that's

:19:13.:19:14.

the misunderstanding. There was no threat

:19:15.:19:20.

in the Prime Minister's letter. All right, she says "in security

:19:21.:19:27.

terms a failure to reach agreement would mean our co-operation

:19:28.:19:30.

in the fight against crime Just explain to us then

:19:31.:19:32.

what would be weakened in the event of no trade deal,

:19:33.:19:35.

what would happen? Well, we have institutions

:19:36.:19:38.

inside the European Union of which we are part,

:19:39.:19:41.

which allow us to have daily, Things like the European Arrest

:19:42.:19:44.

Warrant and various things We can't divorce that

:19:45.:19:51.

from a trade deal? Obviously, we want a trade deal

:19:52.:19:54.

and obviously we want a security deal as well as part of the overall

:19:55.:20:02.

negotiations because we want there to be -

:20:03.:20:04.

So why can't we have a security deal It has been all bound

:20:05.:20:07.

up in our membership of the European Union,

:20:08.:20:15.

so what we want is a deal It's a way of saying,

:20:16.:20:18.

if you don't give us what we want, then we won't help

:20:19.:20:26.

you with security? I mean, the phrase you read out,

:20:27.:20:28.

the sentence you read out from the Prime Minister,

:20:29.:20:33.

is a statement that it's "We must work hard to

:20:34.:20:36.

avoid that outcome." Would we will be less willing then

:20:37.:20:40.

to share intelligence? Would we be less willing

:20:41.:20:45.

to extradite suspects or, as you say, deploy troops to protect

:20:46.:20:48.

Europe? We're still able to

:20:49.:20:50.

do all those things. We can do the last one

:20:51.:20:52.

because that's part of Nato, Well, sharing intelligence,

:20:53.:20:59.

that requires legal protocols. You can't just share intelligence

:21:00.:21:03.

without a legal basis for doing it. Those don't just disappear just

:21:04.:21:06.

because a trade deal isn't there? they disappear at the moment

:21:07.:21:08.

if you're not a member That's why we want to recast

:21:09.:21:19.

them because, I agree, of course these things

:21:20.:21:26.

are very important. They are important to our safety

:21:27.:21:27.

and important to the safety How does it even serve our own

:21:28.:21:30.

country's interest to suggest that that might be under threat or off

:21:31.:21:34.

the table now. The fact that we're leaving

:21:35.:21:36.

the European Union means that certain legal - things

:21:37.:21:40.

that we can now do legally, including intelligence co-operation,

:21:41.:21:43.

needs to have a new legal basis She said, ?in security terms,

:21:44.:21:45.

failure to reach an agreement would mean our co-operation

:21:46.:21:52.

in the fight against crime Because the things we can do legally

:21:53.:21:55.

as a member of the European Union, we couldn't do if we weren't

:21:56.:22:02.

a member of the European Union and we didn't reach

:22:03.:22:05.

a security agreement. It's - You're comfortable

:22:06.:22:07.

with that position? It's a very sensible point to make

:22:08.:22:09.

that there are huge numbers of areas where we want

:22:10.:22:12.

very close co-operation. It's a deal in other

:22:13.:22:14.

areas, like security. In this post-deal world

:22:15.:22:20.

that we have to imagine, what will the divorce

:22:21.:22:23.

settlement look like? Well, we haven't had anything formal

:22:24.:22:25.

back from the European Union yet. As you say, there are lots

:22:26.:22:30.

of numbers swirling around, but actually, until the negotiations

:22:31.:22:35.

start, I think Donald Tusk made clear today,

:22:36.:22:41.

that they will have their negotiating mandate ready

:22:42.:22:44.

by the end of April. So, at that point, it might be

:22:45.:22:46.

sensible to start talking money. Theresa May said the days of vast

:22:47.:22:51.

contributions will end. So it won't look like

:22:52.:22:54.

?200 million a week? Well, the days of large

:22:55.:23:03.

contributions will end but, however hard you try, you're not

:23:04.:23:06.

going to get me on what numbers we're aiming at because that

:23:07.:23:09.

would not be in the interests Yeah, but the British

:23:10.:23:12.

people are feeling really As you say, we had

:23:13.:23:15.

numbers on the bus. We've had numbers contradicted

:23:16.:23:18.

before Brexit, after Brexit. We know that we pay around

:23:19.:23:20.

?200 million a week. Tell us that we won't pay more

:23:21.:23:22.

than that at the end of this deal? Well, I mean, Philip Hammond has

:23:23.:23:26.

made clear that the sort of outer end of the figures

:23:27.:23:29.

aren't remotely realistic. So we won't pay more

:23:30.:23:33.

than ?200 million a week We will, obviously,

:23:34.:23:36.

we will pay for projects But, you know, what those

:23:37.:23:39.

projects are and, therefore, what the numbers are,

:23:40.:23:47.

it's way too early to say. But if part of the attraction

:23:48.:23:51.

of this was getting hold of our finances again,

:23:52.:23:55.

choosing what we buy and what we don't and what we send

:23:56.:23:57.

and what we don't, we are not You must be able to rule

:23:58.:24:01.

that out, can't you? We won't end up paying

:24:02.:24:05.

the same amount after... We will only be paying

:24:06.:24:07.

for things that are in You are quite right to say,

:24:08.:24:10.

we will be able to take our own decisions as to how we spend

:24:11.:24:16.

the money and there some European projects that we may

:24:17.:24:18.

wish to play a part in that What the numbers are,

:24:19.:24:22.

that's for the negotiations. Jonathan Hill was our man

:24:23.:24:30.

in Brussels until the Brexit vote. He resigned almost immediately

:24:31.:24:32.

afterwards from his post as EU He understands the mechanics

:24:33.:24:35.

of this day and the days Nice of you to come in Lord Hill. Do

:24:36.:24:46.

you think this will have momentum now. We are only four hours into

:24:47.:24:50.

this, it feels like a lifetime already? It's clearly, we are right

:24:51.:24:53.

at the beginning. I think the first thing we all need to do is take a

:24:54.:24:58.

deep breath and actually I think the intelligent way to think about the

:24:59.:25:01.

negotiation, in a way, it's slightly the other way round. Start with -

:25:02.:25:06.

where do we want to end up? One of the things about the European

:25:07.:25:09.

system, that I think people don't always appreciate over here, where

:25:10.:25:15.

we tend to think of it as being a bureaucratic inflexible system. It

:25:16.:25:19.

has some of those characteristics as well, it can, at the same time, be a

:25:20.:25:23.

highly flexible and political system. If it wants to do a deal,

:25:24.:25:31.

then a lot of these really complicated, technical issues can be

:25:32.:25:35.

sorted. Can be magically resolved. It's about hearts right now, not

:25:36.:25:40.

mechanics? I think a lot of it is about the heart and where he we want

:25:41.:25:45.

to get to, in terms of a new relationship, a new partnership at

:25:46.:25:51.

the end of it. We've done an awful lot in recent months talking about

:25:52.:25:55.

all the things that divide us. We haven't done very.

:25:56.:25:57.

About the things we have in common. Actually, the thing that strikes me

:25:58.:26:02.

about it is our shared history, our shared values and the fact that

:26:03.:26:05.

we're going to have a shared future. I thought Mrs May picked up some of

:26:06.:26:10.

that in her letter. She did. She told the BBC this evening that a

:26:11.:26:14.

comprehensive free trade agreement is possible. There would be a

:26:15.:26:18.

different relationship but with the same benefits. She outlined

:26:19.:26:21.

something similar to what we have now. You could have kept the

:26:22.:26:31.

portfolio, couldn't you? Things will have to cleaning a bit. When you

:26:32.:26:35.

have any policy change, whatever size it is, you know that there are

:26:36.:26:42.

always winners and losers. So we're about to set out on some of the

:26:43.:26:46.

biggest set of policy changes that we've been through in the last 40,

:26:47.:26:51.

50 years. Clearly, there are going to be parts of the economy that will

:26:52.:26:56.

be affected by the change. There will be some where there will be new

:26:57.:26:59.

opportunities. I think the way to think about it is to move on a bit

:27:00.:27:04.

from the slightlister rile polarised political debate we have and think

:27:05.:27:09.

about how can you minimise the downsize. How can you maximise the

:27:10.:27:12.

opportunity. How can you get on with it as fast as you possibly can? Do

:27:13.:27:17.

you think that tone was right. On the one hand we were saying it's

:27:18.:27:21.

conciliatory. She put out something akin to blackmail, didn't she, with

:27:22.:27:25.

the security threat. Damian Green disagrees with me. It sounded like -

:27:26.:27:29.

we will withdraw what we want, what we have on the table if we don't get

:27:30.:27:34.

stuff? I didn't read it as a blackmail threat. I read it as being

:27:35.:27:39.

a sensible way of trying to identify the things that we've got in common.

:27:40.:27:43.

Because I think, if you think about this from a European point of view,

:27:44.:27:48.

someone like me, who wishes the European Union well and wants the

:27:49.:27:52.

European continent to flourish, they need as much as we do to get through

:27:53.:27:57.

this process speedily. I think it's important for them that the message

:27:58.:28:01.

they communicate to the outside world is, actually, the EU can deal

:28:02.:28:05.

with something like this, take it in its stride and move on. They've got

:28:06.:28:09.

big issues of their own that they need to address. I think, for them,

:28:10.:28:16.

to approach it in a constructive way as we can makes sense economically

:28:17.:28:19.

and to try and secure and keep some of the things that we want to have

:28:20.:28:23.

in common. Then to get on with the things that they want to do to

:28:24.:28:26.

secure the future of the European Union. Lord Hill. Thank you. Thank

:28:27.:28:28.

you. Now back to Brussels and Evan. It was perhaps a myth to think

:28:29.:28:35.

that Brussels has been the centre of power in Europe,

:28:36.:28:38.

it's more the meeting point, No, the real power lies

:28:39.:28:41.

with the governments of the EU, and politics will probably shape

:28:42.:28:46.

the European offer to the UK. No capital is more

:28:47.:28:48.

important than Berlin, and our diplomatic editor,

:28:49.:28:50.

Mark Urban, is there for us. Mark, this has been

:28:51.:28:55.

no surprise today. What's Angela Merkel

:28:56.:28:57.

been saying about it? Well, it's very interesting to see

:28:58.:29:06.

the degree of message control, if you like, that goes from here to the

:29:07.:29:10.

key institutions. The German line is very similar to the one that the

:29:11.:29:14.

President of the European Parliament gave to you earlier - let's get the

:29:15.:29:18.

circumstances of the so-called divorce straight before we move on

:29:19.:29:22.

to talking about the bigger relationship, any trade details,

:29:23.:29:27.

that kind of thing. Now, key to this divorce issue is the British

:29:28.:29:30.

contribution in paying out the remainder of the budget period. If

:29:31.:29:34.

the Brits carry on refusing to pay, I think we can be confident the

:29:35.:29:37.

Germans will simply wait them out for as many months as that seems to

:29:38.:29:42.

be happening. They really want to avoid a knife fight between EU

:29:43.:29:46.

countries over who makes up the shortfall. Then there is the issue

:29:47.:29:50.

of foreign nationals. Some European countries are tougher on these

:29:51.:29:55.

issues. Some are less so. Of course, as Europe's economic powerhouse with

:29:56.:30:00.

by far the largest contribution to its budget, Germany's attitude will

:30:01.:30:02.

be pivotal. The day started with news

:30:03.:30:08.

that the Brexit phoney war, those months between the referendum

:30:09.:30:13.

and today, was over. Many German politicians had hoped

:30:14.:30:17.

that Britain would change its mind The number of people in Britain that

:30:18.:30:21.

think that the decision was right to leave the European Union will go

:30:22.:30:32.

down and down and, at the end of the day, the British Government

:30:33.:30:36.

has to decide whether they should follow the way or that they should

:30:37.:30:40.

probably follow the change in mood I think, in every stage

:30:41.:30:43.

of the negotiations, the German government and German

:30:44.:30:47.

politics will say, OK, we accept to stop and to

:30:48.:30:50.

throwaway that letter. Article 50 is reversible

:30:51.:31:00.

then, in your view? Like many countries though, Germany

:31:01.:31:02.

has plenty of other priorities, that the offices of Bildt,

:31:03.:31:05.

the biggest selling paper, the editor explained why today's

:31:06.:31:08.

news hadn't even made People in Germany worry a lot more

:31:09.:31:10.

about Donald Trump right now They actually haven't been worried

:31:11.:31:15.

about Brexit last year before the referendum because no-one

:31:16.:31:20.

thought it was possible I think there was a mix of regret,

:31:21.:31:22.

but also lack of interest. Thinking, oh, it's the British again

:31:23.:31:29.

wanting their own way. Many Germans maybe slow

:31:30.:31:36.

to pick up on what this process will now involve,

:31:37.:31:38.

but for some there are At this English bookshop,

:31:39.:31:41.

Another Country, we met British expats whose fate,

:31:42.:31:45.

along with that of EU citizens in Britain,

:31:46.:31:48.

ranks among the most I've been in Germany quite

:31:49.:31:49.

a long time and I feel like Britain has, kind of,

:31:50.:31:57.

abandoned me personally almost. It's a very personal

:31:58.:32:01.

reaction, I think. People in the UK, I'm sure, can look

:32:02.:32:05.

at Trump and go - oh, he's a joke. The whole says he's

:32:06.:32:09.

a joke, it's clear. But when they look at Brexit

:32:10.:32:15.

they don't understand that the whole world,

:32:16.:32:17.

including Germany, anywhere that's broadly

:32:18.:32:19.

similar it's like - Why Germany's leader said today that

:32:20.:32:20.

issues relating to separation, such as expats and the UK's share

:32:21.:32:27.

of the EU budget, will have to come first before any talks

:32:28.:32:31.

on the wider relationship. Many here don't rate Britain's

:32:32.:32:37.

chances of exploiting splits German priorities will be -

:32:38.:32:40.

how can we find a unified position and protecting the integrity

:32:41.:32:48.

of the European Union. That is Germany's

:32:49.:32:50.

number one priority. Divide and rule strategy will

:32:51.:33:02.

probably backfire. Talking to politicians here since the

:33:03.:33:07.

referendum, I have heard regret, surprise and even scorn, but very

:33:08.:33:11.

little understanding of why so many Britons voted to leave. For many

:33:12.:33:17.

Germans, the EU's interests and their own national interests are

:33:18.:33:22.

indistinguishable and may well lead this country to take some tough

:33:23.:33:27.

negotiating positions. I expect that Europe should concentrate on more

:33:28.:33:34.

forward-looking things and sorry to say, foolish decision to leave the

:33:35.:33:39.

European Union. Now negotiations begin in earnest, but with many of

:33:40.:33:42.

the key leaders here is still utterly puzzled by Britain's

:33:43.:33:46.

decision, reaching common understandings by not be easy.

:33:47.:33:50.

Let's continue the discussion with two members of

:33:51.:33:52.

Ska Keller is a Green MEP from Germany and Robert Ziller

:33:53.:33:56.

is a Latvian MEP, on the right, in the European Conservatives

:33:57.:33:58.

Thank you for joining us. First of all, very briefly on security, did

:33:59.:34:14.

you think that the British were trying to blackmail Europeans were

:34:15.:34:19.

some words on security? If you read the Prime Minister's letter,

:34:20.:34:25.

sentence by sentence, but the issue is serious, the security for my

:34:26.:34:30.

region and Poland, security is very important. What did you think? With

:34:31.:34:35.

a British trying to say something by putting the sentences next to each

:34:36.:34:40.

other? It certainly did raise the attention of everyone reading it. It

:34:41.:34:44.

was clear that the Prime Minister was trying to find something where

:34:45.:34:48.

she could say, I'm putting my eggs in the basket, I am not sure that

:34:49.:34:53.

this will solve many issues, because security is important, but most

:34:54.:35:00.

sites stand to lose. Both sides stand to lose if we do not reach an

:35:01.:35:04.

economic deal, isn't that really the point? We all stand to lose on

:35:05.:35:09.

anything and that is maybe what she was driving home. We all stand to

:35:10.:35:14.

lose and that is why it is a sad day today. It is very sad and indeed,

:35:15.:35:21.

for as it is important that in the future we have close corporation

:35:22.:35:24.

with the people in Great Britain, many of whom have actually voted to

:35:25.:35:29.

remain in the European Union but it is also clear that when you leave a

:35:30.:35:35.

union like this, you cannot keep all the privileges that come with

:35:36.:35:42.

membership. I really see some concerns, we saw a draft resolution,

:35:43.:35:52.

, but there are paragraphs about Article 50 and a real sense that you

:35:53.:35:55.

have to agree on the divorce that was drawn and at the same time, you

:35:56.:35:59.

have to agree on the framework for future relations and if you read the

:36:00.:36:06.

resolution, you can see that there can only be finalisation of the

:36:07.:36:11.

divorce and only when the UK became a separate country, only then we

:36:12.:36:14.

will make an agreement about how we will trade and do the economy. I

:36:15.:36:19.

think it is the wrong approach and it should be fixed. Do you think the

:36:20.:36:25.

Parliament is getting it wrong? Not only Parliament. I think some member

:36:26.:36:31.

states reported the same issue. I would support the majority decision

:36:32.:36:37.

of the Parliament, because it would be very schizophrenic as the

:36:38.:36:41.

European Union doing a deal with one of our still members. At least the

:36:42.:36:46.

principles, we have to be clear about how we settle the separation

:36:47.:36:49.

before we can talk about the future. What about the money? To see how

:36:50.:36:55.

much we are willing to give, before we know how willing and flexible you

:36:56.:37:00.

will be on the issues that matter to us, it

:37:01.:37:25.

is not reasonable, is it? On the money issue, it is clear that we

:37:26.:37:29.

have taken collective decisions where the UK was part of. The UK

:37:30.:37:32.

cannot run away from it, if you have a divorce, you cannot say forget

:37:33.:37:35.

about the kids, I will not pay for it. You have to contribute if you

:37:36.:37:38.

want to leave the European Union. On the money issue, you have two sides,

:37:39.:37:40.

liabilities and assets. Everyone speaks about liabilities. You have

:37:41.:37:44.

to buy our share out. I hide -- I think we have to be fair on money.

:37:45.:37:48.

If you think about money and nothing else, I think it is wrong. Come the

:37:49.:37:54.

vote you have in the European Parliament, you have to take it or

:37:55.:37:57.

leave it, you will ultimately take it if it is better than no deal at

:37:58.:38:02.

all, isn't that right? All the posturing is irrelevant. If you are

:38:03.:38:06.

faced with a deal that is bad but better than nothing, you have to

:38:07.:38:11.

take it. The Parliament, with its resolution that we are going to vote

:38:12.:38:15.

on next week, if it is adopted, it will make clear, there are some

:38:16.:38:19.

strong points. When it comes to the rights of citizens of the EU in the

:38:20.:38:24.

UK, this will be watched very carefully and also the financial

:38:25.:38:28.

issue and many other issues and the Parliament has proven, it's a had no

:38:29.:38:33.

too bad deals. We need to leave it there. One strategy, if someone

:38:34.:38:42.

really wants to punish the UK because of Brexit, because other

:38:43.:38:46.

member states don't follow in the future, it is a risky strategy. We

:38:47.:38:50.

can say what kind of union will exist in the future. I think we have

:38:51.:39:00.

to... No punishment, but very fair. We need to leave it there.

:39:01.:39:03.

I started by asking whether any new deal will settle

:39:04.:39:05.

It's not the question the rest of Europe are asking -

:39:06.:39:09.

The direction is set but, in the UK, the arguments continue, which takes

:39:10.:39:14.

It's no secret that Europe has brought more Conservative leaders

:39:15.:39:22.

closer to destruction than virtually any other policy.

:39:23.:39:25.

David Cameron knew of the dangers of banging on about Europe.

:39:26.:39:29.

He went in with eyes wide open, but he was still felled by Europe.

:39:30.:39:33.

Today marks perhaps the high watermark for Conservative

:39:34.:39:34.

Eurosceptics that they themselves never believed would happen.

:39:35.:39:36.

In a moment, we'll speak to one of those, MP Jacob Rees Mogg,

:39:37.:39:39.

but first to one of the last of the Europhile big beasts -

:39:40.:39:43.

Nice to see you. How does today feel to you? It is the day in which

:39:44.:40:00.

Britain lost more power and influence than any other day of my

:40:01.:40:07.

peacetime life. We have got influence still, haven't we? We will

:40:08.:40:11.

see. You don't believe that we wield any cards in this deal at all? I

:40:12.:40:17.

don't think so. You might have heard Lauderhill, he said there would be a

:40:18.:40:22.

lot of heartache at the beginning, a lot of people, the slanging match

:40:23.:40:26.

that comes at the beginning of a break-up, people will think

:40:27.:40:29.

rationally, we have to succeed and Europe has to succeed. We might get

:40:30.:40:35.

a deal, but it will be significantly worse than our present position. How

:40:36.:40:40.

do you feel regarding your own party now? You have seen the slings and

:40:41.:40:47.

arrows of Europe and what it has thrown up for the Conservatives, is

:40:48.:40:53.

that debate now over? Know. Every Conservative Prime Minister that I

:40:54.:40:56.

have worked for since the war, including the present one, has

:40:57.:41:04.

argued logically that our national self interest is inextricably

:41:05.:41:07.

interwoven with Europe. Theresa May's speech in April last year was

:41:08.:41:11.

highly impressive. She has changed her mind. I haven't. You are still

:41:12.:41:17.

going to fight on? I am going to do my best to ensure that Parliament,

:41:18.:41:22.

the sovereign guardian of our country has the chance to make the

:41:23.:41:26.

key decisions and I am going to do my best to articulate the

:41:27.:41:32.

frustrations of the 48% who voted against leaving, who feel better

:41:33.:41:36.

that they are being ignored and that their voices not been heard. I will

:41:37.:41:44.

do my best to give them some sort of voice. Some will look and say this

:41:45.:41:47.

is an extraordinary thing, you have got the most popular Conservative

:41:48.:41:50.

Prime Minister for a lifetime, the Brexiteers won fair and square, you

:41:51.:41:54.

must accept that you are out of touch with your party and with the

:41:55.:41:58.

direction the country is going on now. In public life, you can decide

:41:59.:42:06.

value are there. I have views. They happen to be the views of my party

:42:07.:42:11.

all my political life and I have not seen any evidence at all that I

:42:12.:42:16.

should change them. And so, I have only ever voted against my party

:42:17.:42:20.

twice on substantive issues, on the race relations Bill, three weeks

:42:21.:42:24.

later, the party changed its mind, on the poll tax and that enabled

:42:25.:42:28.

John Major to win a decisive victory. We will see whether I am

:42:29.:42:33.

right or wrong. The party can still change is mine? Certainly. The

:42:34.:42:37.

essence of where we are today, is not the phraseology of the letter,

:42:38.:42:43.

or what matters, is what the Europeans tell us they are prepared

:42:44.:42:48.

to do as a deal. Effectively, if I may put it graphically, at the

:42:49.:42:54.

moment, we sit on the Council of ministers, we influence, British

:42:55.:42:57.

self interest, the largest trading partner that we. Tomorrow, they will

:42:58.:43:06.

make the decisions about the trading conditions, the law, the

:43:07.:43:09.

specifications and we won't even have an empty chair in the Council

:43:10.:43:14.

of ministers arguing for British self interest. Thank you very much.

:43:15.:43:20.

You heard Lord Heseltine there speaking directly, saying that we

:43:21.:43:23.

have given up more power than he has seen in his lifetime today. I

:43:24.:43:28.

fundamentally disagree. We have taken power back to the United

:43:29.:43:33.

Kingdom. You have to remember that the rules of the European Union

:43:34.:43:37.

affect 100% our economy and only 13% of our economy trades with Europe.

:43:38.:43:43.

We have been receiving rules passed by qualified majority vote that the

:43:44.:43:46.

British electorate could not stop, democratically, the only way they

:43:47.:43:50.

could stop them was by leaving the European Union. 87% of the economy

:43:51.:43:55.

is not dependent on the EU, so we have reclaimed power. No one really

:43:56.:43:59.

knows what is coming next, Damian Green could not even guarantee we

:44:00.:44:00.

would be paying less for the EU after we left! It is a ridiculous

:44:01.:44:18.

setup! It is obvious we will be playing less. All future events are

:44:19.:44:21.

unknown. That is the nature of mankind, you don't know what the

:44:22.:44:23.

weather will be like tomorrow. You do not move into a house that you

:44:24.:44:26.

have never seen before without having some sense of what you are

:44:27.:44:29.

buying. We know exactly what we will be doing in that sense because this

:44:30.:44:32.

is what we did prior to joining the European Union, we are going to

:44:33.:44:34.

control our own destiny, we are a member of the Security Council and

:44:35.:44:37.

of Nato and in terms of our international influence we are

:44:38.:44:39.

stronger because we are doing it for ourselves. Take the World Trade

:44:40.:44:48.

Organisation, we all have or own feed on the WTO,. That is a better

:44:49.:44:51.

position. I want to talk about the party, because we have both a view

:44:52.:44:54.

from the Conservative Party here and yet you could not be further apart.

:44:55.:44:59.

Does it feel to you like the disagreements are there, do you feel

:45:00.:45:03.

you can walk on and leave the likes of Lord Heseltine behind? He is an

:45:04.:45:07.

enormously distinguished member of the party who has been a loyal

:45:08.:45:12.

supporter and servant for decades. There is no question of leaving him

:45:13.:45:18.

behind. I went to speak to Dominic Grieve and other than on the EU, I

:45:19.:45:22.

agreed with almost everything he says. This is indeed a full-time

:45:23.:45:27.

party and has been for a long time, but there are many issues were many

:45:28.:45:30.

Conservatives agree on a whole range of issues and actually, I think once

:45:31.:45:35.

we have left, it will be a real opportunity for the party to

:45:36.:45:39.

reunite. People are entitled, of course, to argue for positions they

:45:40.:45:46.

have held for many years. It's said that the British

:45:47.:45:54.

were surprised to find their famous tolerance and phlegm severely tested

:45:55.:45:57.

by the Brexit vote. Work colleagues, even husbands

:45:58.:45:59.

and wives, woke up last June Here at Newsnight, we felt

:46:00.:46:01.

that our cherished public service remit was meaningless unless we did

:46:02.:46:05.

a little to pour oil So that's exactly

:46:06.:46:08.

what we did - a little. We sent Stephen Smith

:46:09.:46:11.

to Stratford-upon-Avon, where the breakdown of the vote

:46:12.:46:12.

mirrored the national trend, to see if he could organise

:46:13.:46:15.

a reconciliation tea party So Newsnight said to me -

:46:16.:46:21.

we want you to close our special three hour Brexit programme,

:46:22.:46:25.

why don't you go to Stratford-upon-Avon,

:46:26.:46:29.

where the voters were very divided and see if leavers and remainers

:46:30.:46:31.

can be friends again. This I'll be perfect,

:46:32.:46:35.

let's do the show right here. Put on a little function, they said,

:46:36.:46:42.

on the very British basis that there's nothing that can't be solved

:46:43.:46:46.

by lashings of tea and cake and Morris dancing,

:46:47.:46:51.

of which more later. Spring draws on in Stratford,

:46:52.:46:57.

high time we heard from the Swan of Avon himself, on the vexed

:46:58.:47:02.

question of divided houses. Two households, both

:47:03.:47:05.

alike in dignity. In fair Stratford,

:47:06.:47:21.

where we lay our scene, from ancient grudge break

:47:22.:47:28.

to new mutiny. There never was a story

:47:29.:47:30.

of more woe than this - of those who'd stay

:47:31.:47:41.

and those who'd go. You two are best

:47:42.:47:43.

buddies, aren't you? And, has it affected

:47:44.:47:49.

your friendship? We've had some quite

:47:50.:47:57.

heated conversations. Both of my children and their other

:47:58.:48:00.

halves really gave me a severe telling off

:48:01.:48:10.

because I was a Brexiteer. My son is a consultant anaesthetist

:48:11.:48:15.

in the NHS and as soon as we voted for Brexit he said -

:48:16.:48:19.

where's my ?250,000 a week? Do we need to do a big job

:48:20.:48:23.

on mending our relationship I think people have been quite

:48:24.:48:31.

personally insulting to each other, But we weren't about to let those

:48:32.:48:36.

tensions spoil our tea party, not while everyone was having such

:48:37.:48:43.

a good time. The anger has died down from,

:48:44.:48:49.

obviously, the remainers and the leavers as well, you know,

:48:50.:48:56.

almost like a football match But we have to rub our shoulders

:48:57.:48:59.

and we have to be, you know, If every single part of society,

:49:00.:49:03.

every different component part, doesn't put in an effort now to pull

:49:04.:49:12.

together, the great opportunity that Brexit is going to give,

:49:13.:49:15.

over the medium term, will be wasted because so much

:49:16.:49:18.

talent, so much effort, so much Dischuffment is something worthy

:49:19.:49:21.

of that place there, the theatre. How far have we helped

:49:22.:49:30.

today, not much? It's nice to get people together

:49:31.:49:36.

and it's really interesting to see that people voted either way

:49:37.:49:41.

for passionate reasons. Clearing the decks for one last

:49:42.:49:46.

attraction on our Brexit bandstand. It's the men and women

:49:47.:49:59.

of the Shakespeare Morris performing a rarely seen dance

:50:00.:50:01.

of fertility and reconciliation. They eschewed their wooden

:50:02.:50:04.

staves in favour of Steve Smith, the Old

:50:05.:50:06.

Bard, in Stratford. Trouble is, we cant work out

:50:07.:50:32.

whether we can have our cake, We'll see what our panel choose

:50:33.:50:36.

at the end of the show. Weve talked strategy and security,

:50:37.:50:41.

trade and timings but fundamentally this is about something bigger

:50:42.:50:43.

than all that. Its about the kind of

:50:44.:50:45.

country we now become - Joining me now is the historian

:50:46.:50:47.

and writer Max Hastings, former political editor

:50:48.:50:52.

of the Sun Trevor Kavanagh, journalist and film maker Billy JD

:50:53.:50:54.

Porter and the Labour MP Kate Hoey. Warm welcome to all of us. Kate, if

:50:55.:51:00.

I start with you, does it seem to you does it feel like a leap forward

:51:01.:51:03.

or a yearning for the past. What is behind this move? Oh, no, it's very

:51:04.:51:06.

much looking forward and very confident. I feel this is going to

:51:07.:51:08.

really wake the United Kingdom up to being able to look at new ideas, to

:51:09.:51:12.

do things differently. To get that barrier of the straitjacket of the

:51:13.:51:17.

EU, which always hung over us. One of the things that really happened

:51:18.:51:21.

is that people with new ideas can and, you know, interesting things

:51:22.:51:25.

will be able to express that much more. The civil service, which I

:51:26.:51:30.

think has been, kind of, straitjacketed and dmras complacent

:51:31.:51:34.

over the fact that the EU has been there all the time. I think that

:51:35.:51:37.

will wake up. British politics will actually change because we will now

:51:38.:51:40.

know that when we vote for a party and they say they will do something,

:51:41.:51:43.

we can't blame anybody else if they don't do that. Kate speaks with the

:51:44.:51:48.

voice of freedom, a breath of fresh air there? I couldn't disagree more

:51:49.:51:53.

strongly. I have never seen anything so grotesque as a celebration over

:51:54.:51:57.

an expensive divorce. One of the tran disof what is going on, those

:51:58.:52:02.

who wanted Brexit, talk as if Brexit was a policy that was going to do

:52:03.:52:06.

things for Britain. If you look at the major problems facing Britain,

:52:07.:52:11.

huge trade deficit, education system, funding the NHS, funding the

:52:12.:52:14.

welfare system, how to make Britain pay its way in the 2st century,

:52:15.:52:19.

getting out of Europe will do absolutely nothing to advance these

:52:20.:52:22.

things. It may well push them backwards. To me, one of the things

:52:23.:52:27.

I fear, some of us found this a divisive issue at the time of the

:52:28.:52:31.

referendum. I think things are getting worse because those who are

:52:32.:52:36.

triumphalist today about leaving, for some of us it's a backward

:52:37.:52:41.

vision of Britain. They want a Miss Marm Britain, I'm old enough to

:52:42.:52:44.

remember what it was like. Britain today is a much more successful

:52:45.:52:48.

country than it was in the 1950s. The UK, I think, have voted to go

:52:49.:52:56.

back to the 1950s. That is the negativity coming over from a lot of

:52:57.:53:05.

people - A lot of business MEPmen - No, they want to get on with it and

:53:06.:53:10.

see outside the EU. 187 countries are not in the EU. They manage very

:53:11.:53:15.

well. I feel positive and confident. What we want to see now is everybody

:53:16.:53:19.

being able to work to give their own ideas of how this can move us

:53:20.:53:24.

forward and it is very sad that so many people still want to be

:53:25.:53:27.

negative. What will they do to advance the issues I mentioned?

:53:28.:53:32.

Billy, one of the things, you talked about a Miss Marm Britain. If we are

:53:33.:53:36.

recognising there was a generational gap, wasn't there, in the voting,

:53:37.:53:40.

how do you see this? Whether you think you have been saddled with

:53:41.:53:43.

something? Yeah. This wasn't the outcome that people my age wanted.

:53:44.:53:49.

We categorically did not want this result. Jool I think that it's just

:53:50.:53:54.

going to cement this further distrust between young people and

:53:55.:53:59.

people in power here. I think that people my age have a complete lack

:54:00.:54:02.

of faith in politics. Why wouldn't we? We have a Prime Minister that

:54:03.:54:06.

the public didn't vote for. Who is leading a party who have just come

:54:07.:54:13.

out of a huge scandal that, basically, delegitimatises the whole

:54:14.:54:15.

campaign that brought them into power. This must strike a chord for

:54:16.:54:20.

someone so close to political journalism and the establishment?

:54:21.:54:23.

The problem about this sort of view of the way that we now face the

:54:24.:54:29.

future is two dismal by half, as it was indeed during the referendum

:54:30.:54:32.

campaign when we were warned that the world would, basically, end on

:54:33.:54:37.

the 23rd June if we voted out. Nothing of that short happened

:54:38.:54:40.

whatsoever. It's the start of the process. Every single forecast of

:54:41.:54:48.

gloom and doom proved to be wrong and the reverse of the case. We have

:54:49.:54:52.

done extremely well. That is likely to be the case in the coming months

:54:53.:54:56.

and years. It won't be easy. I think the European Union, especially

:54:57.:54:59.

France, is going to make life extremely difficult for us at times.

:55:00.:55:03.

I think in three, four, five years' time we will look back and think

:55:04.:55:08.

with huge relief we have taken the decision. Brexiteers say this is

:55:09.:55:13.

about being more open, more worldly. More outward looking, yet you talk

:55:14.:55:16.

to foreigners in this country, since the Brexit vote who say they have

:55:17.:55:22.

felt increased xenophobia. How do you reconcile those two outlooks? I

:55:23.:55:27.

want very much the decision taken that the EU citizens here and

:55:28.:55:32.

British citizens in the EU will be able to remain and carry on as they

:55:33.:55:36.

have been doing. Not just in policy, in tone, culture and acceptance? All

:55:37.:55:42.

of those things could have happened if we found the EU countries not

:55:43.:55:46.

wanting to engage in that debate. The Prime Minister tried to get this

:55:47.:55:51.

some time ago, an agreement. I do think that once that is settled, I

:55:52.:55:56.

think that will make a huge difference to how people feel

:55:57.:56:00.

because there is a lot of fear being put around when, after all, it's

:56:01.:56:03.

going to be two years before we actually leave and somehow the way

:56:04.:56:08.

the media has put - maybe the fear game is still being played. We have

:56:09.:56:14.

to hope for the best.s when one says the worst does not happen. We had a

:56:15.:56:18.

13% devaluation. Was that good news the fact that the pound is worth -

:56:19.:56:24.

It's regarded as good news. Come on. To respond to what you are asking

:56:25.:56:28.

for. The nitty-gritty of the numbers no-one know what is the answers are.

:56:29.:56:31.

No-one seems to know what is going to happen. Physical you are talking

:56:32.:56:36.

about tone and the way British feel and the way other people feel about

:56:37.:56:40.

Britain, I'm embarrassed. I'm ashamed. When we are children, we

:56:41.:56:46.

are taught about the spirit of inclusion and the strength of team

:56:47.:56:50.

work. You think that's gone with the Brexit vote? It's gone with the most

:56:51.:56:56.

powerful political leaders over the world? I think you are expressing a

:56:57.:57:00.

personal point of view and maybe expressing the view of quite a lot

:57:01.:57:05.

of young people. I don't think it's a majority view. 75% of young

:57:06.:57:09.

people. You have to take into account - You have to take that into

:57:10.:57:14.

account we will be dead quickly than her generation will. They are

:57:15.:57:18.

saddled with something they didn't want? But the point is that there

:57:19.:57:21.

are other things to be considered as well. It's not just Britain wanting

:57:22.:57:25.

to leave the European Union. An awful lot of people across the

:57:26.:57:29.

European Union in countries that you would be surprised by are even more

:57:30.:57:32.

strongly anti-the European Union than we were before the vote. Even

:57:33.:57:37.

the Pope, the Pope of all people, in Rome of all places, was saying, only

:57:38.:57:42.

on the birthday, the 60th birthday of the European Union this weekend,

:57:43.:57:46.

that the European Union is dying. Now, this is not just scare tactics

:57:47.:57:51.

or fear campaigns, this is the mood that is in fact prevailing across

:57:52.:57:56.

the European Union. I agree. Where I don't agree, Michael Heseltine is an

:57:57.:58:01.

old friend of mine. Michael will not accept that the European project has

:58:02.:58:04.

gone horribly wrong. I would agree with you. It has gone horribly

:58:05.:58:09.

wrong. But on the other hand, to some of us the benefits, both - the

:58:10.:58:14.

cultural importance of being part of Europe and also the huge economic

:58:15.:58:18.

advantage - Let me ask you something personal. Would you prefer now the

:58:19.:58:24.

European project to wither away and die. That will give us a sense we've

:58:25.:58:38.

made the right choice? It will. Michael Howard, who is 94, the good

:58:39.:58:43.

Michael Howard, not the politician. He was saying the other week over

:58:44.:58:48.

the referendum he said the great lesson in my long lifetime has been

:58:49.:58:51.

most of the problems are best addressed together with partners and

:58:52.:58:54.

allies however difficult. That is how some of us feel. The idea of

:58:55.:59:01.

people celebrating only fools like Boris Johnson or David Davis will

:59:02.:59:06.

celebrate. I thought in the House of Commons it was a calm and sensible

:59:07.:59:10.

reaction to Theresa May's statement. Thank you very much. We have

:59:11.:59:12.

important work to do, as you know. It's time toll decide what to do

:59:13.:59:21.

with the cake. We weren't allowed the cake knife. We have this one. I

:59:22.:59:26.

have to ask my guests. You can lower the light. Will you have your cake

:59:27.:59:30.

and eat it? I will start with you, Billy? I will eat it because I'm

:59:31.:59:35.

hungry. We will go for the hear. Yeah, the heart of Europe and the

:59:36.:59:41.

heart of Britain. Oh. As we say our goodbyes we leave you with Europeans

:59:42.:59:44.

who wanted to bid farewell in return to us. Good night.

:59:45.:59:55.

Stay. Do go, but please come back home. Hi, Great Britain, it's too

:59:56.:00:05.

bad you are leaving. I'm really going to miss you I'm going to miss

:00:06.:00:09.

from England fish and chips and beer. But you're going to miss all

:00:10.:00:14.

this. It was love at first sight. I thought it was going to be forever.

:00:15.:00:18.

But you just said to me that you don't love me any more. I love your

:00:19.:00:25.

pop culture. If people don't care if they get wasted on a week day. God

:00:26.:00:29.

Save The Queen. You will soon be crawling back. This is very sad

:00:30.:00:33.

indeed. I do appreciate the cheaper pound. Auf Wiedersehen.

:00:34.:00:56.

Hello there, warmest day of the year on the way for Thursday. We start

:00:57.:01:00.

with cloud. We have outbreaks of rain too. That will get pushed

:01:01.:01:04.

northwards and towards the west with most of the wet weather sitting over

:01:05.:01:08.

the Irish Sea allowing brighter

:01:09.:01:09.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS