12/05/2017 Newsnight


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12/05/2017

A look at the NHS cyber attack; the programme follows Labour's Jess Phillips on the campaign trail; has Andrea Leadsom been sidelined by the Tories? Kirsty Wark presents.


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A global cyber attack has disrupted NHS hospitals and GP surgeries

:00:00.:00:00.

in England and Scotland resulting in cancelled

:00:07.:00:10.

It replicates itself on one computer to the next and there's

:00:11.:00:18.

So who and what is behind the attack - and can they be stopped?

:00:19.:00:26.

Tonight a former hacker, a former GCHQ boss, and the Chair

:00:27.:00:32.

What's it like for one of the rising young stars of the Labour Party,

:00:33.:00:36.

who's not a Corbyn fan, selling the manifesto on the doorstep?

:00:37.:00:41.

I think it does make it easier when you have some

:00:42.:00:44.

clear lines in the sand between you and the other side.

:00:45.:00:48.

So yeah, I think it will make it easier, actually,

:00:49.:00:51.

Missing in general election action...

:00:52.:00:57.

We go in search of one of the most senior figures

:00:58.:01:00.

in Theresa May's Cabinet, to try to find out if

:01:01.:01:02.

Andrea Leadsom, Secretary of State for what used

:01:03.:01:12.

And - Caitlyn Jenner, who before she transitioned

:01:13.:01:25.

And - Caitlyn Jenner, who before she transitioned from Bruce,

:01:26.:01:28.

was feted as one of the most famous athletes in the world,

:01:29.:01:31.

talks about her long and difficult journey to womanhood.

:01:32.:01:32.

It takes a while, time, not two years in, to kind of leave Bruce

:01:33.:01:40.

behind, because he is still in there.

:01:41.:01:46.

Good evening - as we go on air the extent of the international

:01:47.:01:50.

ransomware cyber hack on 70 countries, which has struck NHS

:01:51.:01:52.

hospitals and GP surgeries in England and Scotland

:01:53.:01:55.

25 NHS Trusts in England and nine commissioning groups, and five

:01:56.:02:05.

NHS Trusts in Scotland have been affected.

:02:06.:02:08.

Several hospitals have announced that only patients requiring

:02:09.:02:14.

emergency treatment should attend A and some surgery

:02:15.:02:16.

Many Heathcare Trusts have switched off their IT systems which control

:02:17.:02:21.

everything from x-ray imaging systems, to pathology test results,

:02:22.:02:24.

phone and bleep systems, and patients' administrative

:02:25.:02:26.

Tonight the Prime Minister said the government was not aware of any

:02:27.:02:30.

evidence that patient data had been compromised.

:02:31.:02:33.

Well we're aware that a number of NHS organisations have reported

:02:34.:02:36.

that they've suffered from a ransomware attack.

:02:37.:02:43.

It's an international attack and a number

:02:44.:02:47.

of countries and organisations have been affected.

:02:48.:02:49.

The National Cyber Security Centre is working closely with NHS Digital

:02:50.:02:53.

to ensure that they support the organisations concerned and that

:02:54.:02:55.

Our technology editor David Grossman is with me now and has been

:02:56.:03:03.

following this story this evening...

:03:04.:03:07.

Just how deep are the tentacles of this ransomware? We know that it

:03:08.:03:15.

affects Windows operating systems by Microsoft. Over the Easter weekend,

:03:16.:03:18.

somebody dumped on the Internet on an obscure website tools to exploit

:03:19.:03:27.

former abilities. Who did it, we do not know. But rumours are swirling

:03:28.:03:31.

on the Internet that the tools were developed by the American National

:03:32.:03:34.

Security Agency. We know from Wikileaks they have those kinds of

:03:35.:03:38.

capabilities but we cannot verify whether tools came from or who use

:03:39.:03:43.

them. We know that somebody exploited the vulnerabilities that

:03:44.:03:46.

those tools exploited to attack a lot of organisations. They spread

:03:47.:03:51.

the malware around the Internet using ransomware. Microsoft say that

:03:52.:03:55.

all that was necessary for anyone to protect themselves was to use free

:03:56.:04:01.

antivirus software, and make sure operating systems were regularly

:04:02.:04:05.

updated. Microsoft issued the patches. The question is, why didn't

:04:06.:04:10.

the NHS do that, why were they vulnerable? Today we found out it

:04:11.:04:14.

seems the NHS is especially vulnerable because they've not been

:04:15.:04:17.

able to afford to update all of their systems. Some are so elderly

:04:18.:04:19.

they cannot be patched. Just as hospitals have had

:04:20.:04:21.

to urgently update their response to the threat of superbugs,

:04:22.:04:24.

so they are now having to consider their digital hygiene,

:04:25.:04:26.

how to stop machines getting infected and then, spreading

:04:27.:04:28.

a virus to others in the network. It kind of replicates

:04:29.:04:35.

itself from one computer to the next and there's

:04:36.:04:40.

really no stopping it, it spreads The NHS, it seems,

:04:41.:04:43.

was not specifically targeted but it has been

:04:44.:04:45.

particularly vulnerable. In terms of the NHS,

:04:46.:04:47.

there have been individual malware attacks on individual

:04:48.:04:49.

trusts over the last 18 months but this

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is the first time we've had 21 trusts

:04:52.:04:54.

who have been affected so it's affecting multiple trusts

:04:55.:04:58.

at the same time and This is the screen that appeared

:04:59.:05:00.

in hospitals and GP surgeries demanding a $300 ransom to unlock

:05:01.:05:07.

files and It meant cancelled

:05:08.:05:08.

operations and treatments. I had a cannula,

:05:09.:05:15.

I daren't show you... They had shaved, they

:05:16.:05:19.

were going to open me At half past one the surgeon

:05:20.:05:21.

turned up and said unfortunately we've been hacked

:05:22.:05:38.

and there's nothing we can do, What will be particularly

:05:39.:05:41.

alarming to ministers and officials at the

:05:42.:05:44.

Department of Health is how apparently simple

:05:45.:05:45.

this It doesn't seem to be the work

:05:46.:05:47.

of hacking geniuses, it's more the cyber equivalent

:05:48.:05:50.

of a street robbery - and yet it's managed

:05:51.:05:53.

to Someone, somewhere in the NHS

:05:54.:05:58.

system, it seems, opened an e-mail attachment or clicked on a link

:05:59.:06:04.

which let the malware in. This threat, though,

:06:05.:06:07.

has been known about for at least six weeks

:06:08.:06:08.

and security patches to protect against it

:06:09.:06:10.

have But it seems many NHS machines had

:06:11.:06:11.

not been updated and Krishna Guntupalli is an NHS

:06:12.:06:15.

doctor who has studied He wrote an article

:06:16.:06:18.

warning about the possibility of a major

:06:19.:06:21.

shutdown just two days wasn't talking about the hospital

:06:22.:06:23.

where he works, which is unaffected These operating systems

:06:24.:06:27.

tends to be quite old. So a study in January

:06:28.:06:30.

suggested that 90% of NHS trusts use Windows XP

:06:31.:06:32.

operating systems, which was released 15, 16 years

:06:33.:06:34.

ago by Microsoft and isn't being patched

:06:35.:06:36.

or fixed by Microsoft, and they've

:06:37.:06:40.

advised people to upgrade. The problem is, it's

:06:41.:06:43.

not the same as a In a health care organisation,

:06:44.:06:45.

you have proprietary That means unfortunately health care

:06:46.:06:50.

organisations may be some of the last to upgrade from old operating

:06:51.:06:56.

systems or programmes. That increases their

:06:57.:07:02.

vulnerabilities. That is what the hackers

:07:03.:07:05.

are exploiting. The solution is simple -

:07:06.:07:14.

but for cash-strapped NHS Not using out of date software,

:07:15.:07:16.

not using systems that are just too There's got to be

:07:17.:07:20.

something that's done. If you constantly use

:07:21.:07:24.

old technology that's been hacked easily, or can easily be

:07:25.:07:33.

compromised, you can This attack doesn't seem to have

:07:34.:07:35.

resulted in any data loss, but the kind of personal information

:07:36.:07:41.

that hospitals hold is really You can, after all,

:07:42.:07:44.

change your credit card number or your bank details quite easily -

:07:45.:07:47.

but you can't change your date First and foremost,

:07:48.:07:50.

we hold patient data. And this data is sensitive,

:07:51.:07:57.

including clinical information, All of this can be sold by hackers

:07:58.:07:59.

and we don't know exactly, but maybe about ten times as much

:08:00.:08:05.

as credit card information. In a statement, the NHS in England

:08:06.:08:12.

said that patients should continue using GP and hospital services

:08:13.:08:16.

while they need them but ask them to use them wisely

:08:17.:08:19.

while what they call this major Jake Davis is a reformed hacker,

:08:20.:08:22.

who found global infamy in 2011 as 'Topiary' -

:08:23.:08:26.

the face of the notorious He was convicted of hacking

:08:27.:08:28.

in 2013 and now works Professor Helen Stokes-Lampard

:08:29.:08:32.

is chair of the Royal College of GPs Council -

:08:33.:08:36.

and joining us from Bristol is Brian Lord, former GCHQ

:08:37.:08:40.

Deputy Director for Intelligence Good evening. First of all,

:08:41.:08:54.

Professor Stokes, what is the impact on services and what will it be over

:08:55.:08:58.

the next few days? So far we know quite a lot of GP services and

:08:59.:09:03.

hospital services have been shutdown in terms of IT systems but for those

:09:04.:09:07.

patients who need urgent care, doctors and patients were trained to

:09:08.:09:11.

look after patients before we had computers. We can still talk to them

:09:12.:09:14.

and examine them and make decisions on the basis of what we see and

:09:15.:09:18.

feel, not what the computers tell us. When you listen to David

:09:19.:09:21.

Grossman and the doctor there saying the scope of the hack, you have

:09:22.:09:26.

sensitive information on computers and a lot of these NHS computers are

:09:27.:09:31.

out of time? Yes, but they have been a good seven so far. The systems are

:09:32.:09:38.

backed up. The data is safe, it is there. But we have an absence of

:09:39.:09:41.

data in the short-term to help us deal with patients, putting them

:09:42.:09:46.

through the systems. It is going to be a bit disrupted. David Grossman

:09:47.:09:51.

there said that some of the NHS equipment is so elderly it cannot be

:09:52.:09:56.

patched so you will need new systems? Indeed, and ourselves and

:09:57.:10:00.

other colleges have called for serious infrastructure investment

:10:01.:10:05.

for a long time. It's overdue. GCHQ's position, everyone is calling

:10:06.:10:12.

for all sorts of ways to fix this tonight, who is at work here?

:10:13.:10:17.

Firstly, there will be two time so -- types of response. GCHQ and the

:10:18.:10:22.

National Crime Agency are looking at the crime itself, then you have

:10:23.:10:27.

cyber Security centres working with NHS Digital to work out how they can

:10:28.:10:36.

resolve the issue. This is the next step up for international organised

:10:37.:10:38.

crime. International organised crime began with low-level theft and

:10:39.:10:43.

low-level use of ransomware. By and large they have contracted it out

:10:44.:10:48.

and are now moving to larger scale, far more sustained and coordinated

:10:49.:10:52.

efforts, whether it is getting inside the infrastructure of banks

:10:53.:10:58.

or, as we can see here, a well timed and well co-ordinated delivery of a

:10:59.:11:02.

simple tool, but delivered at mass scale into vulnerable areas. The

:11:03.:11:07.

vulnerable area is the NHS. As far as we know it's not in areas, like

:11:08.:11:14.

banks or operating systems for the NEG industry, it is only the NHS? --

:11:15.:11:22.

energy industry. The NHS is especially vulnerable due to the old

:11:23.:11:28.

nature of its IT systems, and also because it is very complex with

:11:29.:11:33.

interconnectivity between surgeries, trusts, boards, and so on.

:11:34.:11:37.

Consequently, there is an awful lot of openings for delivery of this

:11:38.:11:42.

kind of basic malware. Jake Davis, you have been a hacker in the past,

:11:43.:11:47.

what do you think is going on? I think what is terrifying is how

:11:48.:11:52.

simple it is. The kind of attack and ransomware that was deployed, it may

:11:53.:11:57.

have been a sophisticated criminal organisation or just some kid that

:11:58.:12:00.

hit a go button and a worm has spread. They've woken up and gone, I

:12:01.:12:06.

have 50,000 computers... It wasn't only the NHS, they were hit

:12:07.:12:12.

completely by accident, Telefonica as well... Yes, in 70 different

:12:13.:12:17.

countries. They are putting at this ransomware, paid $300... Do people

:12:18.:12:21.

pay up? In this ransomware there is a Bitcoin address to pay the ransom.

:12:22.:12:27.

We've seen a few been paid through it. So it is working? Yes, it

:12:28.:12:35.

encrypts the files. You've been on the other side of the law? You

:12:36.:12:40.

agree? Yes. Those who are incredibly what I'll -- well-connected, are you

:12:41.:12:49.

working to sort this? Yes, I have spoken to security researchers,

:12:50.:12:51.

talented people as to why it exists and what is to be patched to stop it

:12:52.:12:56.

in future. How long in your view will this infection go on? In order

:12:57.:13:01.

to fix it, you just need to update one thing. It is a simple patch that

:13:02.:13:06.

was released by Microsoft two months ago. It works because systems have

:13:07.:13:11.

not patched it. It isn't the problem here that it may be relatively

:13:12.:13:14.

simple and, as far as we know, reasonably benign will stop

:13:15.:13:18.

reasonably benign. It isn't the problem that we see that one simple

:13:19.:13:26.

button press by an organisation that perhaps has really nefarious reasons

:13:27.:13:31.

for doing it could be very dangerous for the world? Yes, it can, in

:13:32.:13:37.

certain circumstances. What is interesting about what happened

:13:38.:13:41.

here, there's been a double whammy. Firstly, you have the ability of

:13:42.:13:46.

ransomware to propagate itself or the system but also, because of the

:13:47.:13:50.

nature of the NHS and probably within the NHS, not a full

:13:51.:13:54.

understanding of exactly how they are configured, they've had to take

:13:55.:13:57.

down just about everything because of their dependence upon IT. It is

:13:58.:14:03.

the response to the ransomware, as well as that infection, which has

:14:04.:14:06.

almost bought a National Service to its knees. I think that is probably

:14:07.:14:16.

impossible to replicate in other sectors. What is the chance of

:14:17.:14:21.

catching them? I think the chances of catching them are probably very

:14:22.:14:26.

slim in the short to medium-term future. Thank you very much indeed.

:14:27.:14:31.

This was the week when Labour's 45 page draft manifesto was leaked

:14:32.:14:33.

and Jeremy Corbyn was accused of taking the party back

:14:34.:14:36.

The manifesto is now set in stone, though not formally published -

:14:37.:14:40.

so how is it playing on the doorsteps, particularly

:14:41.:14:43.

where the Labour candidate has been openly and repeatedly critical

:14:44.:14:45.

Emily spent the day in Birmingham Yardley constituency where,

:14:46.:14:48.

to say that Jess Phillips is outspoken, is

:14:49.:14:50.

Look for the beating heart of Birmingham Yardley on Friday

:14:51.:15:02.

evening and you'll end up here, a Muslim barbers named

:15:03.:15:04.

after Italian mobsters, where they come in droves on payday.

:15:05.:15:07.

Friday prayer and straight to the barbers for my weekly haircut

:15:08.:15:13.

The business is as old as the last Parliament, set up two short years

:15:14.:15:19.

ago by brothers who tell me they work a seven-day week.

:15:20.:15:22.

They come for razor cuts, skin fades and eyebrow threading,

:15:23.:15:31.

They're local boys, who work mostly in Birmingham's car industry

:15:32.:15:40.

- and I want to know if next month's election is on their mind.

:15:41.:15:43.

Normally a voter, yeah, normally Labour.

:15:44.:15:46.

But obviously, things are changing now.

:15:47.:15:47.

Whatever suits my needs, that's what I'm going to go with now.

:15:48.:15:50.

What do you mean, things are changing?

:15:51.:15:52.

Moneywise, you're working, you've got to look at your family

:15:53.:15:56.

Whatever the best deal is for your family.

:15:57.:16:00.

So might it be Conservative this time round?

:16:01.:16:02.

I tend to go with the majority - my peers, my close relations,

:16:03.:16:13.

I tend to go along with that at times.

:16:14.:16:16.

Do you get the sense that a lot of people are voting this time

:16:17.:16:20.

I don't think a lot of the youth out there is interested.

:16:21.:16:24.

This time it feels like more of the election enthusiasm

:16:25.:16:27.

on the doorstep comes from its canine community.

:16:28.:16:32.

But this is a battle ground seat in more ways than one.

:16:33.:16:36.

A surprise gain for Labour in 2015 from the imploding Lib Dems,

:16:37.:16:40.

the two candidates face each other again in a fight both

:16:41.:16:43.

This bit is one of the more affluent bits of my constituency.

:16:44.:16:49.

We've come to find Jess Phillips, a self-styled everywoman,

:16:50.:16:51.

Did you vote Labour in the last general election?

:16:52.:17:00.

Don't worry, I won't be offended if you didn't vote.

:17:01.:17:02.

Will you be getting out to vote on June the 8th?

:17:03.:17:09.

I've generally always voted for the Labour Party.

:17:10.:17:17.

She's no fan of her leader, Jeremy Corbyn, but I wonder

:17:18.:17:19.

if Labour's leaked manifesto has given her ammunition

:17:20.:17:21.

I think it does make it easier when you have some

:17:22.:17:26.

clear line in the sand between you and the other side.

:17:27.:17:35.

So yeah, I think it will make it easier, actually,

:17:36.:17:38.

There is no doubt about it that people feel that,

:17:39.:17:41.

whilst they may have voted Labour in the past, they are not

:17:42.:17:44.

Because, as you said, there's a shopping list of policies now,

:17:45.:17:50.

they are pretty attractive to a lot of people.

:17:51.:17:55.

Actually I think they probably will be a bit more sure

:17:56.:17:57.

after the manifesto, if it reaches them.

:17:58.:17:59.

Actually what is in the manifesto, aside from some of the stuff around

:18:00.:18:03.

nationalising things, it really is the kind of thing that

:18:04.:18:06.

How do you make sense, then, and we're trying

:18:07.:18:11.

to make sense of this, that when Jeremy Corbyn goes

:18:12.:18:13.

into the country he has these amazing crowds,

:18:14.:18:16.

there is noise and excitement and enthusiasm, and the polls

:18:17.:18:19.

I think it is a potentially dangerous thing for him

:18:20.:18:27.

because if you have a feedback loop that is always kind to you,

:18:28.:18:29.

you might not be getting the real sense of the picture.

:18:30.:18:32.

Theresa May is guilty of this as well at the moment,

:18:33.:18:35.

I think she's closing herself off and only allowing the

:18:36.:18:37.

This isn't Jeremy Corbyn's problem alone.

:18:38.:18:43.

Her Lib Dem opponent in this seat, the MP before her, is John Hemming.

:18:44.:18:48.

The Lib Dems are really hoping for a resurgence this time round.

:18:49.:18:50.

I wouldn't say it's going massively well but in Yardley it's going well.

:18:51.:18:57.

I don't know about other places because it's difficult to tell.

:18:58.:19:03.

When I'm talking to people on the doorstep it's very

:19:04.:19:06.

The Conservative Party candidate is duly elected.

:19:07.:19:09.

And what was once a two horse race has just been re-energised

:19:10.:19:12.

Last week I was elected across all of the West Midlands as the mayor,

:19:13.:19:18.

as a Conservative candidate and I think something very

:19:19.:19:21.

significant happened last week because people said,

:19:22.:19:23.

let's think about whether our traditional loyalty

:19:24.:19:25.

to the Labour Party really has delivered for us.

:19:26.:19:30.

A month from today the political map will be re-drawn.

:19:31.:19:36.

The bubble may talk of landslides and resurrection, crushing defeat

:19:37.:19:38.

or party splits but much of the country will simply carry

:19:39.:19:41.

on and do what they do on any other Friday night.

:19:42.:19:53.

And here is a full list of candidates who are running for

:19:54.:19:56.

election in the Birmingham Yardley constituency.

:19:57.:20:01.

Well the Labour manifesto leak meant this last week wasn't quite

:20:02.:20:04.

what we had been expecting for the election campaign.

:20:05.:20:08.

Four weeks tonight we'll be digesting the results -

:20:09.:20:10.

so let's touch in with our regular panel of experts and assess

:20:11.:20:14.

I'm joined by Camilla Cavendish, who was Head of Policy at Number Ten

:20:15.:20:21.

under David Cameron's premiership and the author, journalist

:20:22.:20:23.

Good evening to you both. Listening to Jess Phillips, quite an

:20:24.:20:31.

interesting tactic, however this manifesto draft was leaked, it gave

:20:32.:20:34.

the candidates something to speak about that wasn't Corbyn. I think

:20:35.:20:39.

that's probably right. She said that there is a dividing line between the

:20:40.:20:43.

parties, well, boy, there is now! The question is, will the country go

:20:44.:20:52.

for a prospectus that is a throwback to the 70s, huge and costed

:20:53.:20:56.

promises? I don't think the country will go for it. Theresa May, rather

:20:57.:21:01.

than talking about the manifesto, which she won't do, she is sticking

:21:02.:21:04.

with Corbyn and today she said that Corbyn has abandoned patriotic

:21:05.:21:09.

working-class voters. She doesn't have any truck with the manifesto.

:21:10.:21:15.

Let's talk about the manifesto because for us it was fortuitous, it

:21:16.:21:19.

created drama in the election and content. Exactly. We haven't had

:21:20.:21:25.

much. People say that it is a throwback to the 70s, so many voters

:21:26.:21:31.

are of my age, mid-50s and above, many of them would look at the 60s

:21:32.:21:36.

and 70s as a good period. Yes but you need the younger voters who

:21:37.:21:40.

aren't voting. I couldn't wait to get out and say, we will give you a

:21:41.:21:45.

free university education, like I had in the 70s that enabled my

:21:46.:21:48.

generation to have such great social mobility. They understand that. But

:21:49.:21:55.

who will pay for it? I wouldn't worry about the uncosted nature. I

:21:56.:22:00.

know the team working on the costings, they've been over it

:22:01.:22:05.

several times. The tag line that is sensible, what is the economic

:22:06.:22:09.

impact of taking up so much tax? The tax will be collected. The leak was

:22:10.:22:14.

interesting because it added drama. Was it the moderates trying to

:22:15.:22:18.

change it or was it the left saying it is better than Corbyn delivering

:22:19.:22:23.

it? I suspected it was the left but I'm pretty confident that it was

:22:24.:22:27.

Jeremy Corbyn's enemies. Some popular measures, let's have 6

:22:28.:22:35.

billion a year for education, 6 billion a year for the NHS by the

:22:36.:22:39.

end of the Parliament, let's have note to wish and fees. Some things

:22:40.:22:48.

struck a chord -- tuition fees. Usually there are some interesting

:22:49.:22:51.

things in the manifesto and there are a couple of things which are

:22:52.:22:55.

actually quite sensible. Abolishing the idea of quarterly returns for

:22:56.:22:59.

small businesses, hooray. Nationalising the railways, a lot of

:23:00.:23:03.

people who are trying to get an Southern Rail and haven't been able

:23:04.:23:06.

to get to work know that there is something wrong. In London. The East

:23:07.:23:12.

Coast Main Line was nationalised and has worked well. Network Rail is

:23:13.:23:18.

nationalised but you have private franchises so it's not entirely

:23:19.:23:20.

crazy but the totality of it doesn't add up. What Theresa May said at the

:23:21.:23:29.

beginning of the week, she would stick to the idea of limited

:23:30.:23:32.

immigration in the tens of thousands, Jeremy Corbyn has said

:23:33.:23:37.

little at all about it. Was she right to announce that? They've

:23:38.:23:40.

never managed to do it. It didn't surprise me that she has stuck to

:23:41.:23:45.

it. I think she believes that you must have a stretch target and I

:23:46.:23:49.

think she believes... Willemse deliver it? That's a good question

:23:50.:24:00.

-- will see deliver it? She kept the students in the target which is

:24:01.:24:04.

going to make it much harder. On the other hand Jeremy Corbyn says

:24:05.:24:08.

nothing much about immigration which is going to go down badly with the

:24:09.:24:13.

Ukip voters that he wants to get. Labour have been pitched as not

:24:14.:24:16.

Ukip. Some Labour voters voted for Ukip last time round. They will

:24:17.:24:20.

appeal to the centre in politics that they want to commit, that they

:24:21.:24:26.

have a the main and stable solution to what the country becomes after

:24:27.:24:35.

Brexit -- humane. Companies are saying to them, there won't be any

:24:36.:24:39.

fewer migrants after Brexit because we can't function without them. I

:24:40.:24:44.

think Theresa May keeping the tens of thousands target is interesting

:24:45.:24:48.

because you could have slipped the students out of it, making it more

:24:49.:24:51.

achievable but she missed it every other time so why should she hit it

:24:52.:24:57.

now? Jeremy Corbyn must say something about immigration because

:24:58.:25:00.

in those 45 pages there was virtually nothing. The point about

:25:01.:25:06.

what is there, it is an offer to people to say that we can solve a

:25:07.:25:12.

lot of what your problems seem to be by very radical measures which

:25:13.:25:17.

redistribution wealth and empower you at work. When you talk to

:25:18.:25:24.

working-class people about migrants and immigration you find very few

:25:25.:25:26.

Mac who claim to dislike the migrants themselves. Therefore it is

:25:27.:25:31.

a different kind of xenophobia that we're dealing with. You can deal

:25:32.:25:36.

with it with radical economic offers to people who believe they have been

:25:37.:25:40.

given nothing by the present system. But it is work that is missing from

:25:41.:25:44.

the manifesto, how are we going to create the jobs? There are plenty of

:25:45.:25:50.

jobs. Where is the prospectus for skills? They are the questions.

:25:51.:25:55.

Luckily we have four more weeks to answer some of these questions!

:25:56.:25:56.

Thank you for joining us. In a general election campaign it's

:25:57.:25:58.

normal for the political parties to put their big guns out around

:25:59.:26:01.

the country and there are no bigger guns for the Conservatives

:26:02.:26:05.

than the Prime Minister But a significant number of these

:26:06.:26:07.

souls have been all but silent, causing some to wonder whether this

:26:08.:26:10.

campaign is one of the most carefully controlled

:26:11.:26:13.

and sanitised we've seen. One of those who appears to have

:26:14.:26:16.

gone missing in action is Environment Secretary Andrea

:26:17.:26:19.

Leadsom. You might have expected to have

:26:20.:26:24.

seen her on national TV recently - especially as the Tories

:26:25.:26:28.

announced their anti-pollution But no, Andrea Leadsom seems

:26:29.:26:30.

to be the nowhere woman. There's an election on and senior

:26:31.:26:34.

Tories are in short supply but one And the Conservative Energy

:26:35.:26:46.

Minister, Andrea Leadsom. Less than a year ago,

:26:47.:26:58.

the Brexiteer wowed Wembley. We should take back control and look

:26:59.:27:00.

after our own society. Andrea was all over the airwaves,

:27:01.:27:03.

running but losing Leadsom was catapulted

:27:04.:27:05.

into the Cabinet but once On big days for her Environment

:27:06.:27:11.

Department, like last week when it was in the firing line over

:27:12.:27:18.

diesel pollution, she The Tory machine told us

:27:19.:27:21.

the Prime Minister's former We contacted Andrea's

:27:22.:27:26.

agent repeatedly. Conservative Central Office

:27:27.:27:31.

won't tell us where she is. So I tracked down the address

:27:32.:27:53.

of her local Conservative club One of my team of researchers

:27:54.:27:56.

rings me and it's a hot lead. Andrea Leadsom has just tweeted,

:27:57.:28:09.

"On my way to Cornwall to support some Tory MPs.

:28:10.:28:12.

Lots of singing in the car." Our problem, we are

:28:13.:28:14.

in Northamptonshire. So, why are we following

:28:15.:28:17.

Andrea Leadsom to the edge You could say we're mucking

:28:18.:28:28.

about and there is an element of truth in that, but

:28:29.:28:34.

also the other thing. This general election has the feel

:28:35.:28:38.

of the most controlled, stage-managed and yes,

:28:39.:28:42.

boring election ever. And that can't be good

:28:43.:28:47.

for our democratic system. In the morning it begins

:28:48.:28:53.

to dawn on me just how She's in Cornwall,

:28:54.:28:55.

but I have no idea where. Andrea Leadsom, Secretary

:28:56.:29:01.

of State for what used To be frank with you,

:29:02.:29:09.

I don't think she's here. So, we're trying to get in touch

:29:10.:29:20.

with a guy called Luke, who we think We've phoned him several times

:29:21.:29:24.

and he's never phoned us back. I'm not saying the hunt for Andrea

:29:25.:29:35.

is getting desperate, but the hunt for Andrea

:29:36.:29:39.

is getting desperate. We've had a tip-off that

:29:40.:29:42.

Andrea Leadsom is on a farm, talking to farmers just

:29:43.:29:50.

here up the road. It's private property

:29:51.:29:55.

so we can't film on it. I'm going to get out the van and see

:29:56.:29:58.

if I can talk to her. The lady in the farmhouse said,

:29:59.:30:05.

she's been and gone. It's now 25 past, so we

:30:06.:30:14.

only just missed her. The search for Andrea

:30:15.:30:18.

Leadsom continues. You may know John Sweeney

:30:19.:30:20.

from the BBC... At wits end, time for a where's

:30:21.:30:24.

Andrea appeal on local radio. One listener rings in to tell us

:30:25.:30:27.

she's been spotted in Penzance. She's even tweeted a picture

:30:28.:30:35.

of herself campaigning by the sea, Look at the detail in

:30:36.:30:38.

the back of the picture. There's Saint Michael's Mount,

:30:39.:30:47.

there's the red boat. It's exciting to think that

:30:48.:30:51.

Andrea Leadsom stood on this very spot, but the truth is,

:30:52.:30:53.

we've missed her. But then, just as we

:30:54.:30:55.

were about to leave, So, Andrea Leadsom is playing

:30:56.:30:58.

cat and mouse with us. I tweeted at her,

:30:59.:31:10.

where's Andrea Leadsom? And she's just tweeted

:31:11.:31:15.

a picture of some woods. We want to interview her,

:31:16.:31:17.

we want to ask questions, there's a general election,

:31:18.:31:21.

she's a cabinet minister. It could be any woods in the whole

:31:22.:31:23.

of the West Country. Was the tweet a sly wink from her,

:31:24.:31:31.

that she's been told to stay shtum? I'm from BBC Newsnight,

:31:32.:31:37.

have you seen Andrea Leadsom? She was in Penzance

:31:38.:31:40.

to talk to fishermen. Sadly we couldn't find

:31:41.:31:43.

any who'd met her. We've grown used to the idea

:31:44.:31:46.

of message discipline since New Labour and its pager

:31:47.:31:50.

culture but disappearing ministers, that seems a whole new level

:31:51.:31:59.

of control freakery. And as for the missing

:32:00.:32:01.

woman herself? We tried our hardest

:32:02.:32:02.

but Andrea Leadsom was, Inspector Sweeney there.

:32:03.:32:04.

the one that got away. And we'll be despatching him to hunt

:32:05.:32:10.

for missing politicians from other We did ask Tory Central Office

:32:11.:32:13.

if they'd told Leadsom and others not to speak to Newsnight

:32:14.:32:19.

during the campaign Caitlyn Jenner was the archetypal

:32:20.:32:21.

American jock, one of the United States most famous

:32:22.:32:32.

and revered athletes who, as Bruce Jenner, took

:32:33.:32:34.

Olympic Gold in the Decathlon at Montreal in 1976,

:32:35.:32:36.

and broke the world record. Fast forward almost 40

:32:37.:32:40.

years, and the star, part of the Keeping Up

:32:41.:32:45.

with the Kardashians reality TV extravaganza

:32:46.:32:48.

as husband of Kris Kardashian, revealed that they had

:32:49.:32:50.

separated and subsequently Caitlyn had known since teenage

:32:51.:32:51.

years that she wanted to be a woman but there were three marriages

:32:52.:33:05.

and ten children and step In 2015, she went public

:33:06.:33:08.

with her new life in a spectacularly glamorous way, and in January this

:33:09.:33:12.

year she completed her sex Now in her new book 'The Secrets

:33:13.:33:15.

of My Life', she has told the story of her long and difficult journey

:33:16.:33:27.

from Bruce to Caitlyn. At the heart of this

:33:28.:33:29.

book, I think there's an overwhelming sadness,

:33:30.:33:33.

in a way, in a sense you had to live so much of your life outwardly

:33:34.:33:36.

to the world as if everything is fine, and yet there is been this

:33:37.:33:39.

incredible subterfuge though that actually you can have

:33:40.:33:42.

all the adulation outside but what matters to you is 20

:33:43.:33:44.

minutes where you can secretly be That was a constant struggle

:33:45.:33:48.

and even after the games, many years ago, I remembered

:33:49.:33:55.

the next morning getting up and looking in the mirror

:33:56.:34:00.

and putting the gold medal around my neck, didn't

:34:01.:34:03.

have a stitch of clothes on, looking in the mirror and I thought,

:34:04.:34:08.

oh my God, did I build up such a character here that I'm stuck

:34:09.:34:15.

with him for the rest of my life? Because that's not me,

:34:16.:34:19.

it's not who I am. You talk about a moment when you are

:34:20.:34:22.

about to have an operation to reduce your Adam's apple and it

:34:23.:34:30.

got out, it might have You felt very low and I wonder,

:34:31.:34:32.

did you feel suicidal? I was home, walking up and down,

:34:33.:34:39.

3am in the morning, walking up and down the hallway of my house

:34:40.:34:43.

and knowing that this is probably And honestly at that point I didn't

:34:44.:34:46.

really want to deal with it because I knew the paparazzi

:34:47.:34:51.

would be going crazy on me, And I thought, you know,

:34:52.:34:54.

the easy thing is to go in the other room and end it right here, end

:34:55.:35:08.

the story right here, and I don't That and my conversation with God

:35:09.:35:14.

were the turning points. The next day I thought,

:35:15.:35:19.

wasn't that stupid, thinking Germaine Greer put her foot

:35:20.:35:22.

into this controversy, she'd been in it before

:35:23.:35:27.

but she put her foot in this controversy last year

:35:28.:35:36.

on Australian television, that a man who has lived for 40

:35:37.:35:38.

years as a man and has had children, it's not fair for the man to decide

:35:39.:35:44.

that he is a woman." I can see that and I respect that

:35:45.:35:47.

opinion and you're absolutely right, I will never bear children,

:35:48.:35:50.

I have a lot of children And yeah, but that doesn't make me

:35:51.:35:53.

any less of who I was. This woman living inside me has

:35:54.:36:02.

been there all my life, it's time to let her live,

:36:03.:36:05.

it's time to give her a chance. To be honest with you,

:36:06.:36:08.

Bruce did everything Bruce could do. Honestly, that was more

:36:09.:36:11.

difficult, to come out You're also a supporter

:36:12.:36:22.

of Donald Trump and at first, he said, during the campaign, he

:36:23.:36:33.

supported the idea that LGBTQ people could use, for example,

:36:34.:36:36.

the rest rooms that they wished, Is that the kind of thing

:36:37.:36:38.

you should be campaigning on? People say that I'm

:36:39.:36:44.

a supporter of Donald Trump. No, I like the Republican

:36:45.:36:52.

party because I believe in limited government,

:36:53.:36:56.

I believe in the people of this If we're going to get out of this

:36:57.:36:58.

mess that we are in, it's going to be the people,

:36:59.:37:17.

not the government, was our candidate so I'm

:37:18.:37:19.

going to vote for him, I thought he would be pretty good

:37:20.:37:22.

when it comes to LGBT issues. I talked to him in the campaign

:37:23.:37:28.

and he put out some federal guidelines which I think

:37:29.:37:31.

is important when it comes to dealing with LGBT

:37:32.:37:33.

issues and trans issues. I was tweeting about it,

:37:34.:37:35.

I went public about it. He wants me to play golf with him

:37:36.:37:39.

but I can't, because I'd be But isn't that the best way to get

:37:40.:37:48.

to him, on the golf course? From my standpoint, I would spend

:37:49.:37:53.

four hours with him and say, Inwardly, do you allow yourself

:37:54.:37:57.

to feel it or has it always been You talk about having

:37:58.:38:11.

the soul of a woman. Have you changed in any

:38:12.:38:14.

way, do you think? I've been able to see the world

:38:15.:38:16.

from the other side. It takes a while, time, not two

:38:17.:38:21.

years in, to leave Bruce behind. Do you think there's a more

:38:22.:38:33.

nurturing side of you that's allowed to come out now, or have

:38:34.:38:46.

you always been like that? I've always had a nurturing side

:38:47.:38:48.

to meet but definitely I had my 11th grandchild

:38:49.:38:51.

the other day. You know what's cool

:38:52.:39:02.

about grandchildren? My relationships

:39:03.:39:05.

with all of my family, very close friends, in most cases

:39:06.:39:09.

has gotten better. I don't have all of

:39:10.:39:13.

the turmoil inside of me, Caitlyn Jenner, thank

:39:14.:39:16.

you very much indeed. Before we go, Britain's

:39:17.:39:27.

oldest swimming pool - Victoria Baths in Manchester -

:39:28.:39:29.

will be open for swimming for the first time in

:39:30.:39:31.

24 years this Sunday. The 101-year-old baths fell

:39:32.:39:34.

into disrepair in the 90s, but after winning the BBC's

:39:35.:39:36.

Restoration competition in 2003, they are slowly

:39:37.:39:38.

on the way back to life. They will open for one day only,

:39:39.:39:41.

but organisers hope the money raised from the event will allow them

:39:42.:39:44.

to complete the restoration. Here's a look at

:39:45.:39:46.

Manchester's so-called as the fishermen like to say,

:39:47.:39:48.

the one that got away. Hello. A weekend of sunny spells and

:39:49.:40:46.

showers but not in equal measure. On Saturday, the south-east of England

:40:47.:40:49.

will do well in terms of staying dry with some sunshine. Some showers but

:40:50.:40:54.

you're much more likely to see them in the north and

:40:55.:40:55.

A look at the NHS cyber attack; the programme follows Labour's Jess Phillips on the campaign trail; has Andrea Leadsom been sidelined by the Tories?; an interview with Caitlyn Jenner.

Kirsty Wark presents.