Browse content similar to 16/05/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Labour's manifesto promises a fairer more prosperous society for the many | :00:00. | :00:14. | |
for the many not just the few, with tax, borrow | :00:15. | :00:17. | |
How's it playing with the core vote? | :00:18. | :00:19. | |
And I'm very proud to present our manifesto | :00:20. | :00:21. | |
I believe in the Labour Party, what they stand for, | :00:22. | :00:26. | |
but I just don't think he's got enough people behind him, | :00:27. | :00:29. | |
he's not strong enough to lead the party, really. | :00:30. | :00:32. | |
I've waited all my life to hear a manifest like that. It looks after | :00:33. | :00:37. | |
people. Is it grim up North for Labour, | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
or will the heartlands hold? The Shadow Cabinet's Richard Burgen | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
joins us from Leeds. We can't have someone | :00:45. | :00:46. | |
in the Oval Office who doesn't understand the meaning of the word | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
"confidential" or "classified". Did Donald Trump compromise a key | :00:50. | :00:55. | |
intelligence source, by giving the Russian Foreign Minister secret | :00:56. | :01:03. | |
intelligence about Islamic State? Is this one too far even | :01:04. | :01:06. | |
for the Donald or is he another Teflon President that | :01:07. | :01:09. | |
nothing sticks to. And we go to Durham | :01:10. | :01:10. | |
to examine the new divide - educated Remainers versus | :01:11. | :01:13. | |
working class Brexiteers. I don't think our values are under | :01:14. | :01:16. | |
threat, as much as we just need to articulate them better, | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
and perhaps in a less When I was doing a bricklaying | :01:21. | :01:21. | |
apprenticeship, I couldn't get it, because at first all the Polish came | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
over, and they took people's jobs. Finally, we have the | :01:27. | :01:36. | |
finished article. Jeremy Corbyn launched | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
the party's election manifesto in Bradford, | :01:41. | :01:42. | |
describing it as It certainly promised the earth, | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
with a programme of tax, spend... Tax hikes of almost ?50 billion | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
a year to pay for scrapping tuition fees, raising the minimum wage | :01:52. | :01:59. | |
to ?10 an hour, and adding ?6 billion a year to education | :02:00. | :02:01. | |
and ?7 billion to health and social care, and borrowing of ?250 billion | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
over ten years for infrastructure, There was a definite high moral | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
tone to the manifesto, with it's pledge of a levy | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
on excessive pay - ?300,000 was the figure | :02:12. | :02:13. | |
Jeremy Corbyn plumped for. So who was the Labour | :02:14. | :02:19. | |
leader addressing? The Corbyn faithful, | :02:20. | :02:21. | |
or did he think the idea of the big state and tax rises | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
would have wide appeal? Our political Editor Nick Watt | :02:26. | :02:27. | |
was at the launch. We have liftoff! Manifesto launch | :02:28. | :02:39. | |
days can often turn into rather sedate affairs. Today had the | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
feeling of a rolling personal rally, as Jeremy Corbyn took the Labour | :02:45. | :02:54. | |
manifesto on the road. And, we will build over a million new homes... A | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
few hours earlier the Shadow Cabinet had gathered in Bradford for this | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
morning's launch. Team Corbyn thought that Banda had been stolen | :03:04. | :03:06. | |
when a draft of the document was leaked last week. But supporters | :03:07. | :03:15. | |
whooped with delight when Jeremy Corbyn pledged to nationalise the | :03:16. | :03:18. | |
railway in stages and scrap university tuition fees. | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
Our proposal is the government for the many, not a few. Our proposals | :03:24. | :03:29. | |
are of hope for the many all over this country, and I'm very proud to | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
present our manifesto for the many, not the few. Thank you very much! | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
CHEERING One loyal trade unionist was | :03:40. | :03:42. | |
delighted. I think it's fantastic. I've waited | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
all my life to hear a manifesto like that. It does really look after | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
people, working people. The only thing I get upset about when people | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
talk about ordinary people, I don't think there's an ordinary person in | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
the world, but people have needs, people have been suffering and this | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
is to reach out to them. Jeremy Corbyn cited Harold Wilson in his | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
speech. Harold, as he called him, unseated at Oriol more than 50 years | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
ago after freshening a message that appeared to in bold in the modern | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
world. Today critics said the manifesto had a bit of a retro feel | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
about it, but supporters of Jeremy Corbyn say he is absolutely in touch | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
with today's world. I think he comes over as a very natural speaker and | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
as a very genuine person. At last, someone we can believe in rather | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
than just another of these plastic politicians. Something special about | :04:36. | :04:42. | |
him. Blair and Brown? Never, no, that's when I went off Labour. | :04:43. | :04:50. | |
Jeremy's the man for me. If his message is unfiltered you would be | :04:51. | :04:53. | |
confident he would win the British people over? You listen to a man in | :04:54. | :05:00. | |
choosing, yes, I don't agree with all of that, of course you don't, | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
but what he says is fundamentally for the interests of working people. | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
For the vast majority of this country, not the handful of | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
neoliberals down in London. Jeremy Corbyn received a rapturous | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
reception when he spoke to his fan base at Huddersfield's Beaumont | :05:18. | :05:20. | |
Park. We know he has plenty of support in the Labour Party because | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
he has won the party leadership two years in a row. The challenge for | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
him is to reach out to the wider electorate across the country. | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
What do you think of the Labour Party under Jeremy Corbyn and his | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
leadership? I think it's well-intentioned but I think it's | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
probably unelectable. And if they were elected, I wouldn't want to be | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
in the country after they'd been elected. | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
I just don't think he's really strong enough, he's not strong | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
enough, I have to say. I mean, I believe in the Labour Party. What | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
they stand for, but I just don't think he's got enough people behind | :05:58. | :06:00. | |
him, he's not strong enough to lead the party. He's not. No, not | :06:01. | :06:07. | |
somebody I would follow. What do you think of Jeremy Corbyn? | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
I think he gets a hard time in the press, but ultimately I think he's a | :06:13. | :06:19. | |
change that would be good for the country. I think he's an honest and | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
straight up leader. Do you see him as a potentially strong Prime | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
Minister? I do. I think what you see with him is what you get. | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
A ghost of one of Jeremy Corbyn's he arose hung over the day's events. | :06:35. | :06:40. | |
Michael foot was cheered round the country 1983 but went down to a | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
heavy defeat. Is there a danger he's getting these rapturous receptions | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
as Michael foot did and it turned out he was preaching to the | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
converted? Who knows, to be quite honest. We will know on the 9th of | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
June, but what I would say to people is read the manifesto. If you like | :06:59. | :07:01. | |
what it says, if there are bits in it that there's a you and your life | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
and make your life better, vote. Shadow ministers are mostly sanguine | :07:06. | :07:13. | |
about Labour's prospects. But there was palpable anger among | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
Jeremy Corbyn's supporters, who believe that the man that calls | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
himself Monsieur Zen is not getting a fair hearing and being unfairly | :07:24. | :07:24. | |
maligned. But does this manifesto stack | :07:25. | :07:26. | |
up as a policy offer? Our Policy Editor | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
Chris Cook is here. What did you make of it? I think | :07:32. | :07:39. | |
it's really important that when we think about manifesto speedo think | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
them as very literal accounts of what a future government is going to | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
do. Because frankly the world is too complicated. And you set yourself up | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
for terrible disappointment. I think one of the things I've been trying | :07:54. | :07:56. | |
to look at today is to think about what exactly is reasonable to expect | :07:57. | :08:03. | |
of a political party to put down. Otherwise we are at risk of drifting | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
into a conversation about our politics, which is does this tiny | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
sum of money add up to this tiny sum of money and losing the bigger | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
picture. What are the questions we should be asking of labour? This | :08:17. | :08:24. | |
manifesto is a draft for a better future for our country. It's a | :08:25. | :08:32. | |
blueprint of what Britain could be. Today, labour launched their vision | :08:33. | :08:35. | |
for what Britain could be like. Their blueprint for the country as | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
much as we expected from the leaked last week. It is a radical | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
prospectus, certainly, but how should you assess their plans? | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
When you read party manifestos I suggest applying two tests to what | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
you see. The first question is ideology, what does this party stand | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
for? A good manifesto should explain which groups and sector party wants | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
to prioritise. The quick second question is about capability, has | :09:03. | :09:05. | |
this party done its homework question specifically when it comes | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
into government and has to deal with the uncertainties and unknown and | :09:10. | :09:12. | |
that ministers face, do they have the capacity and knowledge to cope? | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
To answer the first question, Labour's direction is very clear. | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
Labour will end the cuts in the National Health Service. Labour will | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
scrap tuition fees. Labour will take our railways back into public | :09:29. | :09:31. | |
ownership and put passengers first! After today's manifesto launch we | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
had a clear idea of what the Jeremy Corbyn government would do, quite | :09:38. | :09:43. | |
big rises in tax, ?50 billion in total, income tax for high earners | :09:44. | :09:45. | |
and corporation tax and that money to be spent improving public | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
services from the NHS to schools. We don't know what the Conservatives | :09:50. | :09:52. | |
will do, they launch their manifesto on Thursday forced you can be sure | :09:53. | :09:55. | |
they will be doing this so there's a big choice on the 8th of June. They | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
would do more, running train services directly, buying up water | :10:02. | :10:08. | |
companies but some of their priorities are surprised analysts. | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
Within their spending plans, a big increase in spending on schools and | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
child care and infrastructure spending and fair settlement for the | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
NHS not a generous most of the benefit cuts would be left in place. | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
The second question is tougher. Has Labour done its homework so it's | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
ready to run Whitehall? A snap election has made preparing much | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
harder. I think it is particularly hard at this time because prepared | :10:33. | :10:35. | |
to normal times they have had to do this at very short notice. They | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
haven't had the usual luxury of setting up working groups, talking | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
to think tanks and drawing in outside experts to draw up ideas. It | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
is a front bench short of government experience, so they can't really | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
draw on that. If you conserve that -- compare it to the Conservatives, | :10:53. | :10:55. | |
they are in office, they are sitting there and have been working out | :10:56. | :10:58. | |
policy ideas, have been able to draw on civil service support about ideas | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
they were going to implement in government and they can translate a | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
lot of those into their manifesto. Take this example. One of Labour's | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
top education items is a ?5 billion extension of preschool childcare | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
which is simple enough. But it also plans total reform of the childcare | :11:18. | :11:20. | |
system, and they've simply given us no detail at all about what that | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
means. The biggest concern, though, is fiscal. Labour wants to raise | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
taxes by ?49 billion a year, but they also say only the top 5% of | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
earners will be asked to contribute more in tax to help fund our public | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
services. A lot of people want precisely that sort of thing from | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
Labour, but there are risks. The proposals would raise a lot in tax, | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
tens of billions of pounds, but might still fall well short of what | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
they need. The tax rise is focused on a small group of high income | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
people and increasing corporation tax. If they do fall short, will | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
they borrow more, cut back on the spending plans or go for other tax | :12:02. | :12:07. | |
rises? Labour is pledging a radical blueprint, but that makes it more | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
important to sound reassuring. A snap election makes that much harder | :12:12. | :12:14. | |
for Labour to achieve. Joining us now from Leeds | :12:15. | :12:17. | |
is Labour's Richard Burgon, a member of Jeremy | :12:18. | :12:19. | |
Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet. Good evening. Good evening. First of | :12:20. | :12:30. | |
all, what proportion of GDP will the total tax take the by the end of the | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
parliament based on the manifesto today? What I would say first of all | :12:36. | :12:38. | |
is your colleague Chris was right in saying we should be talking about | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
the bigger picture. This document I have here, that you referred to in | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
your package, sets out exactly the total cost, ?48.6 billion, and | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
exactly how we will raise it. We want to talk about some specifics. I | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
wonder if you know what proportion of GDP the total tax take will be, | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
based on the manifesto today. What proportion will that be? I think | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
what we need to talk about here... If you'll let me finish I'm asking | :13:10. | :13:17. | |
you a question. I understand your technique. It seems to me we are | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
being put on trial for daring to suggest higher public spending. Put | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
on trial for daring to set out with greater transparency than any other | :13:28. | :13:30. | |
party has put forward before, about how much we're going to spend and | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
how we will spend it. You I presume ever read the document and it is all | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
in there. We have a choice with this interview. We can do the rather | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
tedious thing of going through each number... Hang on, hang on. All we | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
can talk about the bigger picture. We can talk about... Let me reassure | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
you, we are going to go through some of the specific policies in a | :13:53. | :13:55. | |
minute. I just wonder if you have any idea what proportion of GDP the | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
total tax take will be at the end of this Parliament? Just to tell you, | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
in case you don't know, it's going to be 36%. Do you know relatively | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
how high that is for many other government since the war? The key is | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
this, we've made a pledge on tax you viewers were very interested in. 95% | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
of people, everyone gets paid less than ?80,000, won't pay a single | :14:21. | :14:26. | |
penny more in taxation, because Labour is the party of low tax for | :14:27. | :14:29. | |
the many. The Conservatives sadly in the last seven years have proved | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
themselves to be the party of low attacks only for the privileged few. | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
Let's look at that. Just tell you that hasn't been such a high tax | :14:39. | :14:45. | |
take as a proportion of GDP since 1949. That is pretty eye-catching. | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
Another eye-catching announcement today in the manifesto, you're going | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
to introduce an excessive pay a levy on salaries above 330,000, another | :14:55. | :15:00. | |
one at half a million. Excessive, is that a moral judgment? I think the | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
levels of inequality in this society are very great. The average earnings | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
in the constituency I represent our ?18,000. I think it is right that | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
Labour is saying there will be no secret tax rises or sneaky tax | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
ruses. 95% of people want pay -- won't pay an extra penny of tax. The | :15:22. | :15:25. | |
Conservatives promised there would be no national insurance increase. | :15:26. | :15:28. | |
It is only Labour stopping them doing that through the back door | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
that stopped them doing it on slide. Basically what excessive means is | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
unnecessary, too high... Basically you believe that people earning over | :15:38. | :15:45. | |
330,000, be they entrepreneurs or computer wizards, BBC CEOs are | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
essentially earning too much? You think they are earning too much? | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
Why can't we talk about the many, not the few? People who earn over | :15:55. | :16:02. | |
?100,000, that's about 0.3% of society. That expand this | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
conversation and talk about the 95%. Let's move onto one of your other | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
major announcements today. That is on the scrapping tuition fees. | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
People can be sceptical when it comes to people saying there will be | :16:16. | :16:18. | |
no tuition fees. Because of the Lib Dems. You say you will scrap them. | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
When would a Labour government scrapped them? Would a student | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
starting this September not pay tuition fees? You saw how | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
enthusiastically this policy was received. But they wanted to be | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
delivered. If it was delivered by a Labour government, would it be | :16:38. | :16:40. | |
immediate, incremental, would student at university now in second | :16:41. | :16:46. | |
year not pay? When would you be introducing this policy? We will | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
reveal the further details about the plan in due course. What is true is | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
that it has been widely welcomed. The difference between Jeremy Corbyn | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
and people like Nick Clegg, if anybody remembers him, Jeremy Corbyn | :17:00. | :17:02. | |
as a politician who has always kept his promises. You just said that we | :17:03. | :17:08. | |
will know more detail in a few weeks. We will know the detail of | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
tuition fees at how they will be scrapped in three weeks? We will be | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
making further announcements about the detail. It seems to me that we | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
are being put on trial for agreeing to more... You are announcing | :17:22. | :17:28. | |
policy... We've announced a great list of policies today. Of which | :17:29. | :17:31. | |
this is one, a key one, something you are spending a lot on. We make | :17:32. | :17:40. | |
no apologies for spending a lot on it because it is fully costed at | :17:41. | :17:42. | |
that. Students and people who want to be students from being held back. | :17:43. | :17:45. | |
Too many families are being held back in this country and our | :17:46. | :17:48. | |
manifesto will change that. It is about fairness, you have been | :17:49. | :17:51. | |
categorical about that. Would you suggest that if you are announcing | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
in three weeks' time, that you cannot abolish tuition fees for, | :17:56. | :17:58. | |
say, to years of a Labour government, if you get in, would you | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
suggest students delay going to university until the policy is in | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
place? This is obviously a trap. At the end of the day I hope you would | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
join students across the country, and people thinking about being | :18:12. | :18:14. | |
students, welcoming this policy as a massive step forward. It is a | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
massive step forward. So is reversing the scrapping of the | :18:21. | :18:23. | |
student nurse bursaries, bringing back the education maintenance | :18:24. | :18:30. | |
allowance. What this is about is stopping people's aspirations from | :18:31. | :18:33. | |
being held back. People feel they are being priced out of going to | :18:34. | :18:36. | |
university. A Labour government will end that. The difference to even | :18:37. | :18:42. | |
Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour team, and the Lib Dems, who you mentioned | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
earlier, is that the Labour team as Jeremy Corbyn have a track record of | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
keeping their word. You are introducing sweeping changes in | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
childcare. Free school meals. There will be the tuition fees. These are | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
free benefits for the very people you say earn ?330,000 and access. | :19:03. | :19:09. | |
They will benefit from that. That is a terrible inconsistency, isn't it? | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
We all benefit from that. We benefit from people going to university, | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
their education helps to stimulate the economy. If you are treated in | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
hospital you are treated by somebody who has gone to university, whether | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
it be a doctor, a nurse, if you go and see a lawyer you are being | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
assessed by somebody who has been to university. Our policy of free | :19:32. | :19:34. | |
school meals, some people have criticised it for its universalism. | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
I am proud of the universalism. On that question of universalism and | :19:40. | :19:45. | |
whether that will benefit you, Len McCluskey, he said if the party | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
holds 200 seats that will mean this has been a successful campaign. Is | :19:50. | :19:55. | |
he one of the so-called moderate doom mongers? Here's a great general | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
secretary. I'm delighted he was re-elected recently. All I am | :20:01. | :20:03. | |
focused on, and all the Labour team is focused on, is getting out these | :20:04. | :20:07. | |
policies, policies for the many, not the few... Would it be with 200 | :20:08. | :20:14. | |
seats? The polls have narrowed. I think they will continue to narrow | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
when people see the policies of our manifesto. We want with this general | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
election. There is three weeks to go. Three weeks is a long time in | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
politics. We are up for the fight. We are forwarding the selection in | :20:28. | :20:30. | |
order to completely transform things. So things are run in the | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
interest of the many not the few, so we end the system rigged against | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
vulnerable families. Thanks very much. | :20:39. | :20:39. | |
The White House has tonight refused to comment on reports | :20:40. | :20:42. | |
that the highly classified information that President Trump | :20:43. | :20:43. | |
today finally admitted to sharing with the Russian foreign Minister | :20:44. | :20:46. | |
and the Russian Ambassador had come from Israeli Intelligence. | :20:47. | :20:53. | |
After first denying he had shared anything and sending his | :20:54. | :20:55. | |
National Security Advisor General HR McMaster, out deny any wrongdoing, | :20:56. | :20:58. | |
today President Trump said he had an absolute right to do what he did, | :20:59. | :21:01. | |
and sent General McMaster out yet again. | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
I stand by my statement I made yesterday. | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
What I'm really saying is that the premise of that article | :21:10. | :21:11. | |
is false, but in any way the president had a conversation | :21:12. | :21:14. | |
that was inappropriate, or that resulted in any kind | :21:15. | :21:16. | |
And so I think the real issue, and I think what I would like to see | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
really debated more, is that national security has been | :21:22. | :21:23. | |
put at risk by those violating confidentiality. | :21:24. | :21:35. | |
The New York Times reported that Trump asked the then FBI director, | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
James Comey, to end his investigation into Michael Flynn for | :21:41. | :21:46. | |
alleged connections with Russia. He sacked James Comey a week ago. The | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
White House denied this report. But the stream of charges and | :21:52. | :21:54. | |
accusations against the Trump White House seems to be endless. | :21:55. | :21:56. | |
But where does this latest row leave his relationship | :21:57. | :21:58. | |
with a Republican Party that has, thus far, shown steady loyalty | :21:59. | :22:01. | |
Joining me now is Jacob Weisberg of Slate media group, | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
and Debra Saunders who is the White House Correspondent | :22:06. | :22:07. | |
Good evening to both of you. Thank you for coming in. On the scale of | :22:08. | :22:18. | |
calamity, Jacob, how does this rack including the New York Times story | :22:19. | :22:24. | |
tonight? -- how does this rank. These are pretty much the worse | :22:25. | :22:28. | |
things that have happened the Trump. I think they are clearly impeachable | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
offences. If you had a Congress willing to think about impeachment, | :22:34. | :22:36. | |
and at some time you will, this is obstruction of justice. The primary | :22:37. | :22:44. | |
article of impeachment against Nixon was the same. The president seems | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
intent on providing all of the evidence needed to support it | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
himself. Debra, the whole question of whether Trump actually knew what | :22:54. | :22:55. | |
he was doing is still far from clear. Is it a case of calamity | :22:56. | :23:01. | |
after calamity and Congress being unwilling to do anything about it, | :23:02. | :23:07. | |
or will be the latest two, as Jacob seems to say, tipped over the edge? | :23:08. | :23:14. | |
-- tip it over the edge? He did not know the source of the information | :23:15. | :23:19. | |
he apparently inadvertently revealed to the Russians. As you know, -- I'm | :23:20. | :23:32. | |
not sure there isn't an illegality. It is tough for Trump. First, it is | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
the Russians again. He seems to be smitten by Vladimir Putin and some | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
of the other Russians. He campaigned, saying he was against | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
Clinton, she lets classified information fall into the hands of | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
others because she had them in a home server. Now it turns out he has | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
slipped something to the Russians. I must say, you are asking what is the | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
number come up to ten, we have been eight through ten for the last week. | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
We have been over 84 with this president. He thrives on chaos. -- | :24:06. | :24:12. | |
we have been over eight already with this president. I think he has the | :24:13. | :24:15. | |
stamina to stick things out. He seems ready to cut whatever comes | :24:16. | :24:19. | |
his way. That is what he has been doing. -- he seems ready to gut. | :24:20. | :24:30. | |
Nobody has made a comment whether it was Israeli intelligence being | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
discussed yet. Is he just going to limp on? I'm not sure if it is worse | :24:37. | :24:42. | |
or better if he compromises the intelligence inadvertently, or did | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
it, as he was trying to say yesterday, with purpose in mind. | :24:47. | :24:51. | |
When you think about what is at stake, the penetration of a | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
terrorist organisation, like Isis, by an allied security service, there | :24:57. | :25:00. | |
isn't much more important to protect than the ability to keep that kind | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
of information flowing, to protect from terrorists, and future | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
terrorist attacks. This is information that journalists are | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
very good at protecting. In fact, the news organisations that cover | :25:15. | :25:17. | |
this story, including the Washington Post, were very careful about | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
restraining themselves from revealing the information that Trump | :25:22. | :25:27. | |
apparently revealed to the Russians. You cannot plead ignorance, or | :25:28. | :25:36. | |
inadvertence, or callousness here. It is an odd loophole that he | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
doesn't need a security clearance. But it is clear that Trump will not | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
qualify for one. On the whole question of the New York Times | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
tonight, whether or not he asked James Comey not investigate Michael | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
Flynn, if that could be proved what would be the consequence of that, | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
Debra? I don't know if it can be proved. We know James Comey, as soon | :26:01. | :26:04. | |
as he finished dinner, wrote a memo and the Trump did it. I think it is | :26:05. | :26:10. | |
a bit of a he said she said. Unless, of course, the president we did | :26:11. | :26:13. | |
there may be tapes. Then we would know. I do not think that would be a | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
good thing for Trump because it makes you feel like you are in the | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
days of Watergate when you see that out there. You raise Watergate. | :26:24. | :26:27. | |
Watergate was a long, drawn-out business. Do you think the | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
Republicans don't have the appetite for that, they are going to stick to | :26:33. | :26:38. | |
their man? I would have said that a week ago. That is what has been | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
going on. A lot of Trump supporters feel the media are against him. That | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
the Democrats are against him. That everybody is rooting for him to fail | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
and it makes them want to stand by him more. Here is what happened | :26:52. | :26:54. | |
which went wrong with James Comey last week. The president had a right | :26:55. | :27:02. | |
to fire James Comey, but... He sent out his surrogates. Sean Spicer, | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
Sarah Huckabee Sardis, and gave us this story about how Trump ended up | :27:07. | :27:12. | |
talking to the Deputy Attorney General and the Attorney General, | :27:13. | :27:15. | |
they brought forward the memos, the sport of the president of fire James | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
Comey. Then what does he do come he tells NBC News that he was going to | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
do it all along because of the Russians. If you are Republican and | :27:24. | :27:30. | |
you want to take his story, and tell it to the world, you know you can be | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
undercut by him the next day on NBC news. Thank you both very much | :27:35. | :27:37. | |
indeed. In this election, how do we know | :27:38. | :27:38. | |
what really matters to people? The old certainties are gone, | :27:39. | :27:41. | |
tribal loyalties shattered - People are less likely to vote | :27:42. | :27:43. | |
blindly for the party of their parents, and factors | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
such as age, geography, and education are emerging | :27:48. | :27:49. | |
as the new dividing lines. Over the next three weeks, | :27:50. | :27:52. | |
Katie Razzall is going to be looking at some of these divisions in 21st | :27:53. | :27:55. | |
Britain's voting For her first report she travelled | :27:56. | :27:57. | |
from Durham to Tyneside, to examine where the faultlines lie | :27:58. | :28:00. | |
in terms of education. An island of Remain in a region that | :28:01. | :28:16. | |
voted overwhelmingly Out. Nearly a fifth of Durham's | :28:17. | :28:28. | |
inhabitants have a degree, which statistics suggest also means | :28:29. | :28:30. | |
they're more liberal and outward With left and right now | :28:31. | :28:33. | |
less obviously a marker of how someone might vote, | :28:34. | :28:41. | |
university appears a prime ceding So here we are, we're | :28:42. | :28:43. | |
entering the premises Jack Gilmour is the Society's | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
proud Treasurer. Founded in 1842, all | :28:48. | :28:55. | |
those years ago... Amongst the student fraternity, | :28:56. | :28:56. | |
Jack's in a minority group. This place has produced many | :28:57. | :29:05. | |
notable MPs, including Edward Leigh and Crispin Blunt, | :29:06. | :29:07. | |
and here we have the main He's a Conservative | :29:08. | :29:10. | |
supporter and a Leave voter. The other three here | :29:11. | :29:13. | |
are Labour Remainers. Voting remain and voting leave, | :29:14. | :29:17. | |
again, it's about how I want society to be multicultural, | :29:18. | :29:19. | |
I want everyone to be equal. What do you think it is, | :29:20. | :29:27. | |
if anything, about university education, that makes it such | :29:28. | :29:29. | |
a marker for how Well, I think certainly people | :29:30. | :29:31. | |
who are more university educated, of course, tended to vote Remain | :29:32. | :29:37. | |
more in the referendum. I think what's really sad | :29:38. | :29:40. | |
at the moment, the 48% who voted Remain have kind of been cut out | :29:41. | :29:43. | |
of public discourse entirely. We're pursuing a hard Brexit, | :29:44. | :29:46. | |
we're leaving the single market, The 48%, which is a very large | :29:47. | :29:48. | |
portion of this country, are being labelled enemies | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
of the people in the press and effectively being cut | :29:53. | :29:55. | |
out of the discussion. The people that go to university, | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
they're interacting in more multicultural societies, | :30:01. | :30:03. | |
and if you go to university, you're more likely to get | :30:04. | :30:09. | |
a job in a city as well, which is then more | :30:10. | :30:12. | |
likely to be Remain. I think that your views can | :30:13. | :30:14. | |
so easily be swayed, My views changed when I came | :30:15. | :30:16. | |
to university, somewhat, on topics I was a believer when I started | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
in my first year, but I was exposed to different thoughts and I became | :30:21. | :30:27. | |
an atheist afterwards, for example. I think background, | :30:28. | :30:29. | |
where you're born and how you're raised and so on, | :30:30. | :30:34. | |
determines, I think, My parents were working class people | :30:35. | :30:36. | |
who became middle-class, I mean their sort of story of, | :30:37. | :30:39. | |
for want of a better term, rags to riches, I think, | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
is an inspirational one and I think that's why | :30:45. | :30:47. | |
I have a conservative mindset. Education apparently | :30:48. | :30:52. | |
fuels voting habits. In the French election, | :30:53. | :30:55. | |
areas whose inhabitants have less education were much less likely | :30:56. | :30:57. | |
to vote for Macron than Both Brexit and Donald Trump's | :30:58. | :30:59. | |
victory were also driven by people with fewer educational | :31:00. | :31:08. | |
qualifications. Why is education having this effect, | :31:09. | :31:08. | |
and is it patronising even to look Almost as if this is a problem to be | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
fixed, instead of simply Everyone's right to have | :31:14. | :31:23. | |
a different opinion? Newsnight headed up the coast, | :31:24. | :31:32. | |
back to a place that was celebrating when we visited the day | :31:33. | :31:35. | |
after the Brexit vote. Haven't been to sea for 15 | :31:36. | :31:47. | |
days, or 18 days, that's John Ellis has worked at North | :31:48. | :31:49. | |
Shields fish quay for 60 years. I can read a little bit | :31:50. | :32:06. | |
and write a little bit, Without educational qualifications, | :32:07. | :32:09. | |
John made a good living doing a valued job in | :32:10. | :32:15. | |
a respected industry. And a kid to your age now, | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
a 15-year-old who left school... Would they have the same prospects | :32:20. | :32:22. | |
as you had back then? What the case was down here, | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
if you worked hard, And when you think about | :32:28. | :32:34. | |
the Prime Minister now, Theresa May? I think she's all right | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
for the country, and The other fella's good | :32:39. | :32:46. | |
as well, the Labour man. But he's got no oomph | :32:47. | :32:51. | |
about him, you know? In heartland Labour Tyneside, many | :32:52. | :33:00. | |
at the fish dock migrated to Ukip. This election not all | :33:01. | :33:03. | |
those votes are assured. The quay master left school at 16 | :33:04. | :33:06. | |
to be apprenticed; his children When I was young I had choices, | :33:07. | :33:09. | |
you could go down the yards, the coal mines, the steel yards, | :33:10. | :33:19. | |
but there's nothing I'm just now thinking I won't vote, | :33:20. | :33:21. | |
because there's no one to vote for. You couldn't bring yourself | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
to vote Conservative? They wrecked the northern England | :33:26. | :33:28. | |
the last time they had I mean, I've got two | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
kids now at university. One went into, he's just | :33:34. | :33:36. | |
working at call centres Now at university, because he went | :33:37. | :33:38. | |
into construction but there wasn't the there isn't the work | :33:39. | :33:44. | |
in the north any more. Unless Theresa May can come up to me | :33:45. | :33:46. | |
and put a deal on the table and say, this is what we going to do, | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
this is what we've got for the fishermen, then my vote | :33:51. | :33:53. | |
will be going to Ukip, to put through the job that that | :33:54. | :33:56. | |
they've already started. Jackie Weatherstone | :33:57. | :33:58. | |
left school at 15. He voted Ukip recently, but back | :33:59. | :34:00. | |
in the day it was a different story. I had to be in the Labour Party | :34:01. | :34:03. | |
to get a job, to get to sea, It'd be Conservative, | :34:04. | :34:07. | |
because Ukip's finished, isn't it? This election, 53% of those | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
YouGov asked who have no qualifications plan to vote Tory, | :34:12. | :34:20. | |
17% Ukip, 18% Labour and 5% Lib Dem. The Tory vote share seems | :34:21. | :34:26. | |
to decrease for every extra Of those with degrees, | :34:27. | :34:28. | |
Tory vote share was down to 36%, Ukip just 4%, while Labour | :34:29. | :34:33. | |
was on 28% and the Lib Dems 19%. # Twinkle, twinkle, little star, | :34:34. | :34:41. | |
How I wonder what you are...# The mood music across the Tyne | :34:42. | :34:43. | |
in South Shields is In a place where 62% voted out, | :34:44. | :34:46. | |
and nearly 30% have no At The Word cultural space, | :34:47. | :34:56. | |
the council offers free music sessions for parents and babies, | :34:57. | :35:03. | |
but when it comes to how these people might vote, | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
is it education or employment He left school at 16, | :35:09. | :35:10. | |
did NVQs and an apprenticeship in bricklaying, recently he's voted | :35:11. | :35:19. | |
Ukip. When I was doing a bricklaying | :35:20. | :35:23. | |
apprenticeship, I couldn't get it because at first all the Polish came | :35:24. | :35:28. | |
over and they took over people's So you couldn't get a job | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
after the apprenticeship? No, I got ruled out of it, | :35:32. | :35:37. | |
what was put down on paper, there were too many cheap labourers | :35:38. | :35:40. | |
available and they didn't want to pay for my wage | :35:41. | :35:44. | |
compared to theirs. It didn't make us angry, it's just | :35:45. | :35:46. | |
obvious business sense, isn't it? Why pay for one person on this, | :35:47. | :35:51. | |
when you can get two So when Theresa May says they're | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
to bring immigration way down, Now, for this election, | :35:55. | :36:01. | |
do you think you'd vote Ukip again? Kate Foster, on the left, | :36:02. | :36:08. | |
went to university but didn't From a mining family, she is staunch | :36:09. | :36:19. | |
Labour and voted Remain. And what you feel as | :36:20. | :36:26. | |
a Remainer in this sea Especially, we've got Nissan | :36:27. | :36:29. | |
at Sunderland and I can't understand why a city that depends on industry | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
and outside help... I want to live in a country that's | :36:35. | :36:36. | |
open, open to people that need help, aren't afraid to have friends | :36:37. | :36:50. | |
from all walks of life. I don't see that that's going to be | :36:51. | :36:57. | |
how it's going to be any more. I do think it's under | :36:58. | :37:01. | |
threat, I really do. The referendum gave a voice to those | :37:02. | :37:03. | |
who haven't benefited from our In Durham our students were taking | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
a break from exam revision. Amongst the gang, | :37:07. | :37:16. | |
another Conservative, this time she's a Remainer, | :37:17. | :37:17. | |
and a Liberal Democrat supporter. I don't think our values are under | :37:18. | :37:19. | |
threat as much as we just need to articulate them better, | :37:20. | :37:23. | |
and perhaps in a less I think the liberal establishment | :37:24. | :37:25. | |
has been a bit smug in their messaging and just assuming | :37:26. | :37:28. | |
everyone is on their side. What we need to do is articulate | :37:29. | :37:31. | |
liberal values and just make the point that they're actually | :37:32. | :37:34. | |
British values. I think we struggle | :37:35. | :37:36. | |
within the Brexit rhetoric, Remainders, we lost, | :37:37. | :37:39. | |
and we have to accept that, which is fine, but the way that | :37:40. | :37:42. | |
we're going now, I'm really frightened of a hard Brexit, | :37:43. | :37:45. | |
because that's where the rhetoric I think is leading, | :37:46. | :37:49. | |
especially as the Tory party want to increase their majority, | :37:50. | :37:51. | |
which I want happened too, what are we doing that | :37:52. | :37:54. | |
at the expense of taking in some A university education doesn't give | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
everybody liberal values. Nor is everyone without a degree | :37:59. | :38:16. | |
conservative, but education is a significant predictor of voting | :38:17. | :38:18. | |
behaviour, and with a likely realignment going on on the right, | :38:19. | :38:21. | |
in many areas of Britain it will play a big role in deciding | :38:22. | :38:24. | |
who wins this election. Well, while there's still room | :38:25. | :38:29. | |
in politics for old-fashioned door-knocking and leaflets, | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
the parties are increasingly fighting a sophisticated | :38:34. | :38:39. | |
cyber-campaign, which targets people The fact this kind of messaging | :38:40. | :38:41. | |
is so easily focused at specific groups of voters, means it can be | :38:42. | :38:46. | |
difficult to see exactly what the parties are | :38:47. | :38:49. | |
sending and to whom. We're keen to get to the bottom | :38:50. | :38:52. | |
of this, so we've teamed up with our colleagues from BBC | :38:53. | :38:55. | |
Trending - and we need your help. Mukul Devichand is the editor of BBC | :38:56. | :38:58. | |
Trending and joins me now. What's going on? As you say, it's | :38:59. | :39:07. | |
about what we know and what we don't know. What we know is at least ?1 | :39:08. | :39:13. | |
million will be spent on Facebook advertising during the election. It | :39:14. | :39:18. | |
was 1.3 million in 2015. We know it is a really micro-targeted kind of | :39:19. | :39:22. | |
advertising that can look at what your likes and dislikes are, through | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
your friends are, where you are, your age and gender and target | :39:28. | :39:30. | |
messages towards you and parties will be doing that. This was thought | :39:31. | :39:33. | |
to be a game changer in the referendum. One estimate was up to a | :39:34. | :39:38. | |
billion messages sent by the parties. What we don't know is what | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
all those messages say. Some of them are not publicly visible, apart from | :39:44. | :39:47. | |
the people that get them. What you want people to do about it? | :39:48. | :39:53. | |
Newsnight and Trending will be teaming up to try and analyse what | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
to send us. We want you to take a snap of a message you get in your | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
timeline that feels political, send it to us, send us a bit of | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
information about yourself if you don't mind, your age and location | :40:06. | :40:08. | |
and except. How to send is on screen. We will try and analyse that | :40:09. | :40:14. | |
and build up a national picture of the types of messaging that the | :40:15. | :40:17. | |
parties are using and come back to the show and on the BBC Trending | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
blog to report that. Thank you. Now the last of our Viewsnights, | :40:22. | :40:27. | |
pitching ideas for the parties Tonight, it's Times | :40:28. | :40:30. | |
journalist Raphael Hogarth. That's all we have time for tonight. | :40:31. | :42:20. | |
Good night. A cooler night ahead for Scotland | :42:21. | :42:39. | |
and Northern Ireland after the mild and humid night on | :42:40. | :42:40. |