16/05/2017 Newsnight


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16/05/2017

A look at Labour in the north of England, Donald Trump's sharing of information with Russia, the educated versus the uneducated, and the concept of taxing land rather business.


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Labour's manifesto promises a fairer more prosperous society for the many

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for the many not just the few, with tax, borrow

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How's it playing with the core vote?

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And I'm very proud to present our manifesto

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I believe in the Labour Party, what they stand for,

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but I just don't think he's got enough people behind him,

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he's not strong enough to lead the party, really.

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I've waited all my life to hear a manifest like that. It looks after

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people. Is it grim up North for Labour,

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or will the heartlands hold? The Shadow Cabinet's Richard Burgen

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joins us from Leeds. We can't have someone

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in the Oval Office who doesn't understand the meaning of the word

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"confidential" or "classified". Did Donald Trump compromise a key

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intelligence source, by giving the Russian Foreign Minister secret

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intelligence about Islamic State? Is this one too far even

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for the Donald or is he another Teflon President that

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nothing sticks to. And we go to Durham

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to examine the new divide - educated Remainers versus

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working class Brexiteers. I don't think our values are under

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threat, as much as we just need to articulate them better,

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and perhaps in a less When I was doing a bricklaying

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apprenticeship, I couldn't get it, because at first all the Polish came

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over, and they took people's jobs. Finally, we have the

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finished article. Jeremy Corbyn launched

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the party's election manifesto in Bradford,

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describing it as It certainly promised the earth,

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with a programme of tax, spend... Tax hikes of almost ?50 billion

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a year to pay for scrapping tuition fees, raising the minimum wage

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to ?10 an hour, and adding ?6 billion a year to education

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and ?7 billion to health and social care, and borrowing of ?250 billion

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over ten years for infrastructure, There was a definite high moral

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tone to the manifesto, with it's pledge of a levy

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on excessive pay - ?300,000 was the figure

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Jeremy Corbyn plumped for. So who was the Labour

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leader addressing? The Corbyn faithful,

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or did he think the idea of the big state and tax rises

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would have wide appeal? Our political Editor Nick Watt

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was at the launch. We have liftoff! Manifesto launch

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days can often turn into rather sedate affairs. Today had the

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feeling of a rolling personal rally, as Jeremy Corbyn took the Labour

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manifesto on the road. And, we will build over a million new homes... A

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few hours earlier the Shadow Cabinet had gathered in Bradford for this

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morning's launch. Team Corbyn thought that Banda had been stolen

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when a draft of the document was leaked last week. But supporters

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whooped with delight when Jeremy Corbyn pledged to nationalise the

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railway in stages and scrap university tuition fees.

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Our proposal is the government for the many, not a few. Our proposals

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are of hope for the many all over this country, and I'm very proud to

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present our manifesto for the many, not the few. Thank you very much!

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CHEERING One loyal trade unionist was

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delighted. I think it's fantastic. I've waited

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all my life to hear a manifesto like that. It does really look after

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people, working people. The only thing I get upset about when people

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talk about ordinary people, I don't think there's an ordinary person in

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the world, but people have needs, people have been suffering and this

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is to reach out to them. Jeremy Corbyn cited Harold Wilson in his

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speech. Harold, as he called him, unseated at Oriol more than 50 years

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ago after freshening a message that appeared to in bold in the modern

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world. Today critics said the manifesto had a bit of a retro feel

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about it, but supporters of Jeremy Corbyn say he is absolutely in touch

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with today's world. I think he comes over as a very natural speaker and

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as a very genuine person. At last, someone we can believe in rather

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than just another of these plastic politicians. Something special about

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him. Blair and Brown? Never, no, that's when I went off Labour.

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Jeremy's the man for me. If his message is unfiltered you would be

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confident he would win the British people over? You listen to a man in

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choosing, yes, I don't agree with all of that, of course you don't,

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but what he says is fundamentally for the interests of working people.

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For the vast majority of this country, not the handful of

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neoliberals down in London. Jeremy Corbyn received a rapturous

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reception when he spoke to his fan base at Huddersfield's Beaumont

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Park. We know he has plenty of support in the Labour Party because

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he has won the party leadership two years in a row. The challenge for

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him is to reach out to the wider electorate across the country.

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What do you think of the Labour Party under Jeremy Corbyn and his

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leadership? I think it's well-intentioned but I think it's

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probably unelectable. And if they were elected, I wouldn't want to be

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in the country after they'd been elected.

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I just don't think he's really strong enough, he's not strong

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enough, I have to say. I mean, I believe in the Labour Party. What

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they stand for, but I just don't think he's got enough people behind

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him, he's not strong enough to lead the party. He's not. No, not

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somebody I would follow. What do you think of Jeremy Corbyn?

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I think he gets a hard time in the press, but ultimately I think he's a

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change that would be good for the country. I think he's an honest and

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straight up leader. Do you see him as a potentially strong Prime

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Minister? I do. I think what you see with him is what you get.

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A ghost of one of Jeremy Corbyn's he arose hung over the day's events.

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Michael foot was cheered round the country 1983 but went down to a

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heavy defeat. Is there a danger he's getting these rapturous receptions

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as Michael foot did and it turned out he was preaching to the

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converted? Who knows, to be quite honest. We will know on the 9th of

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June, but what I would say to people is read the manifesto. If you like

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what it says, if there are bits in it that there's a you and your life

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and make your life better, vote. Shadow ministers are mostly sanguine

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about Labour's prospects. But there was palpable anger among

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Jeremy Corbyn's supporters, who believe that the man that calls

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himself Monsieur Zen is not getting a fair hearing and being unfairly

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maligned. But does this manifesto stack

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up as a policy offer? Our Policy Editor

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Chris Cook is here. What did you make of it? I think

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it's really important that when we think about manifesto speedo think

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them as very literal accounts of what a future government is going to

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do. Because frankly the world is too complicated. And you set yourself up

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for terrible disappointment. I think one of the things I've been trying

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to look at today is to think about what exactly is reasonable to expect

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of a political party to put down. Otherwise we are at risk of drifting

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into a conversation about our politics, which is does this tiny

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sum of money add up to this tiny sum of money and losing the bigger

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picture. What are the questions we should be asking of labour? This

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manifesto is a draft for a better future for our country. It's a

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blueprint of what Britain could be. Today, labour launched their vision

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for what Britain could be like. Their blueprint for the country as

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much as we expected from the leaked last week. It is a radical

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prospectus, certainly, but how should you assess their plans?

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When you read party manifestos I suggest applying two tests to what

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you see. The first question is ideology, what does this party stand

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for? A good manifesto should explain which groups and sector party wants

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to prioritise. The quick second question is about capability, has

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this party done its homework question specifically when it comes

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into government and has to deal with the uncertainties and unknown and

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that ministers face, do they have the capacity and knowledge to cope?

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To answer the first question, Labour's direction is very clear.

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Labour will end the cuts in the National Health Service. Labour will

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scrap tuition fees. Labour will take our railways back into public

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ownership and put passengers first! After today's manifesto launch we

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had a clear idea of what the Jeremy Corbyn government would do, quite

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big rises in tax, ?50 billion in total, income tax for high earners

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and corporation tax and that money to be spent improving public

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services from the NHS to schools. We don't know what the Conservatives

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will do, they launch their manifesto on Thursday forced you can be sure

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they will be doing this so there's a big choice on the 8th of June. They

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would do more, running train services directly, buying up water

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companies but some of their priorities are surprised analysts.

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Within their spending plans, a big increase in spending on schools and

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child care and infrastructure spending and fair settlement for the

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NHS not a generous most of the benefit cuts would be left in place.

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The second question is tougher. Has Labour done its homework so it's

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ready to run Whitehall? A snap election has made preparing much

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harder. I think it is particularly hard at this time because prepared

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to normal times they have had to do this at very short notice. They

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haven't had the usual luxury of setting up working groups, talking

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to think tanks and drawing in outside experts to draw up ideas. It

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is a front bench short of government experience, so they can't really

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draw on that. If you conserve that -- compare it to the Conservatives,

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they are in office, they are sitting there and have been working out

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policy ideas, have been able to draw on civil service support about ideas

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they were going to implement in government and they can translate a

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lot of those into their manifesto. Take this example. One of Labour's

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top education items is a ?5 billion extension of preschool childcare

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which is simple enough. But it also plans total reform of the childcare

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system, and they've simply given us no detail at all about what that

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means. The biggest concern, though, is fiscal. Labour wants to raise

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taxes by ?49 billion a year, but they also say only the top 5% of

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earners will be asked to contribute more in tax to help fund our public

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services. A lot of people want precisely that sort of thing from

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Labour, but there are risks. The proposals would raise a lot in tax,

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tens of billions of pounds, but might still fall well short of what

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they need. The tax rise is focused on a small group of high income

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people and increasing corporation tax. If they do fall short, will

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they borrow more, cut back on the spending plans or go for other tax

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rises? Labour is pledging a radical blueprint, but that makes it more

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important to sound reassuring. A snap election makes that much harder

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for Labour to achieve. Joining us now from Leeds

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is Labour's Richard Burgon, a member of Jeremy

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Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet. Good evening. Good evening. First of

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all, what proportion of GDP will the total tax take the by the end of the

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parliament based on the manifesto today? What I would say first of all

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is your colleague Chris was right in saying we should be talking about

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the bigger picture. This document I have here, that you referred to in

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your package, sets out exactly the total cost, ?48.6 billion, and

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exactly how we will raise it. We want to talk about some specifics. I

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wonder if you know what proportion of GDP the total tax take will be,

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based on the manifesto today. What proportion will that be? I think

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what we need to talk about here... If you'll let me finish I'm asking

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you a question. I understand your technique. It seems to me we are

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being put on trial for daring to suggest higher public spending. Put

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on trial for daring to set out with greater transparency than any other

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party has put forward before, about how much we're going to spend and

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how we will spend it. You I presume ever read the document and it is all

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in there. We have a choice with this interview. We can do the rather

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tedious thing of going through each number... Hang on, hang on. All we

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can talk about the bigger picture. We can talk about... Let me reassure

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you, we are going to go through some of the specific policies in a

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minute. I just wonder if you have any idea what proportion of GDP the

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total tax take will be at the end of this Parliament? Just to tell you,

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in case you don't know, it's going to be 36%. Do you know relatively

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how high that is for many other government since the war? The key is

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this, we've made a pledge on tax you viewers were very interested in. 95%

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of people, everyone gets paid less than ?80,000, won't pay a single

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penny more in taxation, because Labour is the party of low tax for

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the many. The Conservatives sadly in the last seven years have proved

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themselves to be the party of low attacks only for the privileged few.

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Let's look at that. Just tell you that hasn't been such a high tax

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take as a proportion of GDP since 1949. That is pretty eye-catching.

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Another eye-catching announcement today in the manifesto, you're going

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to introduce an excessive pay a levy on salaries above 330,000, another

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one at half a million. Excessive, is that a moral judgment? I think the

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levels of inequality in this society are very great. The average earnings

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in the constituency I represent our ?18,000. I think it is right that

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Labour is saying there will be no secret tax rises or sneaky tax

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ruses. 95% of people want pay -- won't pay an extra penny of tax. The

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Conservatives promised there would be no national insurance increase.

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It is only Labour stopping them doing that through the back door

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that stopped them doing it on slide. Basically what excessive means is

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unnecessary, too high... Basically you believe that people earning over

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330,000, be they entrepreneurs or computer wizards, BBC CEOs are

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essentially earning too much? You think they are earning too much?

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Why can't we talk about the many, not the few? People who earn over

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?100,000, that's about 0.3% of society. That expand this

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conversation and talk about the 95%. Let's move onto one of your other

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major announcements today. That is on the scrapping tuition fees.

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People can be sceptical when it comes to people saying there will be

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no tuition fees. Because of the Lib Dems. You say you will scrap them.

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When would a Labour government scrapped them? Would a student

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starting this September not pay tuition fees? You saw how

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enthusiastically this policy was received. But they wanted to be

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delivered. If it was delivered by a Labour government, would it be

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immediate, incremental, would student at university now in second

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year not pay? When would you be introducing this policy? We will

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reveal the further details about the plan in due course. What is true is

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that it has been widely welcomed. The difference between Jeremy Corbyn

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and people like Nick Clegg, if anybody remembers him, Jeremy Corbyn

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as a politician who has always kept his promises. You just said that we

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will know more detail in a few weeks. We will know the detail of

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tuition fees at how they will be scrapped in three weeks? We will be

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making further announcements about the detail. It seems to me that we

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are being put on trial for agreeing to more... You are announcing

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policy... We've announced a great list of policies today. Of which

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this is one, a key one, something you are spending a lot on. We make

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no apologies for spending a lot on it because it is fully costed at

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that. Students and people who want to be students from being held back.

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Too many families are being held back in this country and our

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manifesto will change that. It is about fairness, you have been

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categorical about that. Would you suggest that if you are announcing

:17:52.:17:55.

in three weeks' time, that you cannot abolish tuition fees for,

:17:56.:17:58.

say, to years of a Labour government, if you get in, would you

:17:59.:18:02.

suggest students delay going to university until the policy is in

:18:03.:18:07.

place? This is obviously a trap. At the end of the day I hope you would

:18:08.:18:11.

join students across the country, and people thinking about being

:18:12.:18:14.

students, welcoming this policy as a massive step forward. It is a

:18:15.:18:20.

massive step forward. So is reversing the scrapping of the

:18:21.:18:23.

student nurse bursaries, bringing back the education maintenance

:18:24.:18:30.

allowance. What this is about is stopping people's aspirations from

:18:31.:18:33.

being held back. People feel they are being priced out of going to

:18:34.:18:36.

university. A Labour government will end that. The difference to even

:18:37.:18:42.

Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour team, and the Lib Dems, who you mentioned

:18:43.:18:47.

earlier, is that the Labour team as Jeremy Corbyn have a track record of

:18:48.:18:52.

keeping their word. You are introducing sweeping changes in

:18:53.:18:58.

childcare. Free school meals. There will be the tuition fees. These are

:18:59.:19:02.

free benefits for the very people you say earn ?330,000 and access.

:19:03.:19:09.

They will benefit from that. That is a terrible inconsistency, isn't it?

:19:10.:19:13.

We all benefit from that. We benefit from people going to university,

:19:14.:19:17.

their education helps to stimulate the economy. If you are treated in

:19:18.:19:21.

hospital you are treated by somebody who has gone to university, whether

:19:22.:19:25.

it be a doctor, a nurse, if you go and see a lawyer you are being

:19:26.:19:31.

assessed by somebody who has been to university. Our policy of free

:19:32.:19:34.

school meals, some people have criticised it for its universalism.

:19:35.:19:39.

I am proud of the universalism. On that question of universalism and

:19:40.:19:45.

whether that will benefit you, Len McCluskey, he said if the party

:19:46.:19:49.

holds 200 seats that will mean this has been a successful campaign. Is

:19:50.:19:55.

he one of the so-called moderate doom mongers? Here's a great general

:19:56.:20:00.

secretary. I'm delighted he was re-elected recently. All I am

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focused on, and all the Labour team is focused on, is getting out these

:20:04.:20:07.

policies, policies for the many, not the few... Would it be with 200

:20:08.:20:14.

seats? The polls have narrowed. I think they will continue to narrow

:20:15.:20:18.

when people see the policies of our manifesto. We want with this general

:20:19.:20:22.

election. There is three weeks to go. Three weeks is a long time in

:20:23.:20:27.

politics. We are up for the fight. We are forwarding the selection in

:20:28.:20:30.

order to completely transform things. So things are run in the

:20:31.:20:34.

interest of the many not the few, so we end the system rigged against

:20:35.:20:38.

vulnerable families. Thanks very much.

:20:39.:20:39.

The White House has tonight refused to comment on reports

:20:40.:20:42.

that the highly classified information that President Trump

:20:43.:20:43.

today finally admitted to sharing with the Russian foreign Minister

:20:44.:20:46.

and the Russian Ambassador had come from Israeli Intelligence.

:20:47.:20:53.

After first denying he had shared anything and sending his

:20:54.:20:55.

National Security Advisor General HR McMaster, out deny any wrongdoing,

:20:56.:20:58.

today President Trump said he had an absolute right to do what he did,

:20:59.:21:01.

and sent General McMaster out yet again.

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I stand by my statement I made yesterday.

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What I'm really saying is that the premise of that article

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is false, but in any way the president had a conversation

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that was inappropriate, or that resulted in any kind

:21:15.:21:16.

And so I think the real issue, and I think what I would like to see

:21:17.:21:21.

really debated more, is that national security has been

:21:22.:21:23.

put at risk by those violating confidentiality.

:21:24.:21:35.

The New York Times reported that Trump asked the then FBI director,

:21:36.:21:40.

James Comey, to end his investigation into Michael Flynn for

:21:41.:21:46.

alleged connections with Russia. He sacked James Comey a week ago. The

:21:47.:21:51.

White House denied this report. But the stream of charges and

:21:52.:21:54.

accusations against the Trump White House seems to be endless.

:21:55.:21:56.

But where does this latest row leave his relationship

:21:57.:21:58.

with a Republican Party that has, thus far, shown steady loyalty

:21:59.:22:01.

Joining me now is Jacob Weisberg of Slate media group,

:22:02.:22:05.

and Debra Saunders who is the White House Correspondent

:22:06.:22:07.

Good evening to both of you. Thank you for coming in. On the scale of

:22:08.:22:18.

calamity, Jacob, how does this rack including the New York Times story

:22:19.:22:24.

tonight? -- how does this rank. These are pretty much the worse

:22:25.:22:28.

things that have happened the Trump. I think they are clearly impeachable

:22:29.:22:33.

offences. If you had a Congress willing to think about impeachment,

:22:34.:22:36.

and at some time you will, this is obstruction of justice. The primary

:22:37.:22:44.

article of impeachment against Nixon was the same. The president seems

:22:45.:22:48.

intent on providing all of the evidence needed to support it

:22:49.:22:53.

himself. Debra, the whole question of whether Trump actually knew what

:22:54.:22:55.

he was doing is still far from clear. Is it a case of calamity

:22:56.:23:01.

after calamity and Congress being unwilling to do anything about it,

:23:02.:23:07.

or will be the latest two, as Jacob seems to say, tipped over the edge?

:23:08.:23:14.

-- tip it over the edge? He did not know the source of the information

:23:15.:23:19.

he apparently inadvertently revealed to the Russians. As you know, -- I'm

:23:20.:23:32.

not sure there isn't an illegality. It is tough for Trump. First, it is

:23:33.:23:37.

the Russians again. He seems to be smitten by Vladimir Putin and some

:23:38.:23:41.

of the other Russians. He campaigned, saying he was against

:23:42.:23:45.

Clinton, she lets classified information fall into the hands of

:23:46.:23:49.

others because she had them in a home server. Now it turns out he has

:23:50.:23:55.

slipped something to the Russians. I must say, you are asking what is the

:23:56.:24:00.

number come up to ten, we have been eight through ten for the last week.

:24:01.:24:05.

We have been over 84 with this president. He thrives on chaos. --

:24:06.:24:12.

we have been over eight already with this president. I think he has the

:24:13.:24:15.

stamina to stick things out. He seems ready to cut whatever comes

:24:16.:24:19.

his way. That is what he has been doing. -- he seems ready to gut.

:24:20.:24:30.

Nobody has made a comment whether it was Israeli intelligence being

:24:31.:24:36.

discussed yet. Is he just going to limp on? I'm not sure if it is worse

:24:37.:24:42.

or better if he compromises the intelligence inadvertently, or did

:24:43.:24:46.

it, as he was trying to say yesterday, with purpose in mind.

:24:47.:24:51.

When you think about what is at stake, the penetration of a

:24:52.:24:56.

terrorist organisation, like Isis, by an allied security service, there

:24:57.:25:00.

isn't much more important to protect than the ability to keep that kind

:25:01.:25:04.

of information flowing, to protect from terrorists, and future

:25:05.:25:08.

terrorist attacks. This is information that journalists are

:25:09.:25:14.

very good at protecting. In fact, the news organisations that cover

:25:15.:25:17.

this story, including the Washington Post, were very careful about

:25:18.:25:21.

restraining themselves from revealing the information that Trump

:25:22.:25:27.

apparently revealed to the Russians. You cannot plead ignorance, or

:25:28.:25:36.

inadvertence, or callousness here. It is an odd loophole that he

:25:37.:25:41.

doesn't need a security clearance. But it is clear that Trump will not

:25:42.:25:45.

qualify for one. On the whole question of the New York Times

:25:46.:25:50.

tonight, whether or not he asked James Comey not investigate Michael

:25:51.:25:55.

Flynn, if that could be proved what would be the consequence of that,

:25:56.:26:00.

Debra? I don't know if it can be proved. We know James Comey, as soon

:26:01.:26:04.

as he finished dinner, wrote a memo and the Trump did it. I think it is

:26:05.:26:10.

a bit of a he said she said. Unless, of course, the president we did

:26:11.:26:13.

there may be tapes. Then we would know. I do not think that would be a

:26:14.:26:19.

good thing for Trump because it makes you feel like you are in the

:26:20.:26:23.

days of Watergate when you see that out there. You raise Watergate.

:26:24.:26:27.

Watergate was a long, drawn-out business. Do you think the

:26:28.:26:32.

Republicans don't have the appetite for that, they are going to stick to

:26:33.:26:38.

their man? I would have said that a week ago. That is what has been

:26:39.:26:43.

going on. A lot of Trump supporters feel the media are against him. That

:26:44.:26:47.

the Democrats are against him. That everybody is rooting for him to fail

:26:48.:26:51.

and it makes them want to stand by him more. Here is what happened

:26:52.:26:54.

which went wrong with James Comey last week. The president had a right

:26:55.:27:02.

to fire James Comey, but... He sent out his surrogates. Sean Spicer,

:27:03.:27:06.

Sarah Huckabee Sardis, and gave us this story about how Trump ended up

:27:07.:27:12.

talking to the Deputy Attorney General and the Attorney General,

:27:13.:27:15.

they brought forward the memos, the sport of the president of fire James

:27:16.:27:19.

Comey. Then what does he do come he tells NBC News that he was going to

:27:20.:27:23.

do it all along because of the Russians. If you are Republican and

:27:24.:27:30.

you want to take his story, and tell it to the world, you know you can be

:27:31.:27:34.

undercut by him the next day on NBC news. Thank you both very much

:27:35.:27:37.

indeed. In this election, how do we know

:27:38.:27:38.

what really matters to people? The old certainties are gone,

:27:39.:27:41.

tribal loyalties shattered - People are less likely to vote

:27:42.:27:43.

blindly for the party of their parents, and factors

:27:44.:27:47.

such as age, geography, and education are emerging

:27:48.:27:49.

as the new dividing lines. Over the next three weeks,

:27:50.:27:52.

Katie Razzall is going to be looking at some of these divisions in 21st

:27:53.:27:55.

Britain's voting For her first report she travelled

:27:56.:27:57.

from Durham to Tyneside, to examine where the faultlines lie

:27:58.:28:00.

in terms of education. An island of Remain in a region that

:28:01.:28:16.

voted overwhelmingly Out. Nearly a fifth of Durham's

:28:17.:28:28.

inhabitants have a degree, which statistics suggest also means

:28:29.:28:30.

they're more liberal and outward With left and right now

:28:31.:28:33.

less obviously a marker of how someone might vote,

:28:34.:28:41.

university appears a prime ceding So here we are, we're

:28:42.:28:43.

entering the premises Jack Gilmour is the Society's

:28:44.:28:47.

proud Treasurer. Founded in 1842, all

:28:48.:28:55.

those years ago... Amongst the student fraternity,

:28:56.:28:56.

Jack's in a minority group. This place has produced many

:28:57.:29:05.

notable MPs, including Edward Leigh and Crispin Blunt,

:29:06.:29:07.

and here we have the main He's a Conservative

:29:08.:29:10.

supporter and a Leave voter. The other three here

:29:11.:29:13.

are Labour Remainers. Voting remain and voting leave,

:29:14.:29:17.

again, it's about how I want society to be multicultural,

:29:18.:29:19.

I want everyone to be equal. What do you think it is,

:29:20.:29:27.

if anything, about university education, that makes it such

:29:28.:29:29.

a marker for how Well, I think certainly people

:29:30.:29:31.

who are more university educated, of course, tended to vote Remain

:29:32.:29:37.

more in the referendum. I think what's really sad

:29:38.:29:40.

at the moment, the 48% who voted Remain have kind of been cut out

:29:41.:29:43.

of public discourse entirely. We're pursuing a hard Brexit,

:29:44.:29:46.

we're leaving the single market, The 48%, which is a very large

:29:47.:29:48.

portion of this country, are being labelled enemies

:29:49.:29:52.

of the people in the press and effectively being cut

:29:53.:29:55.

out of the discussion. The people that go to university,

:29:56.:30:00.

they're interacting in more multicultural societies,

:30:01.:30:03.

and if you go to university, you're more likely to get

:30:04.:30:09.

a job in a city as well, which is then more

:30:10.:30:12.

likely to be Remain. I think that your views can

:30:13.:30:14.

so easily be swayed, My views changed when I came

:30:15.:30:16.

to university, somewhat, on topics I was a believer when I started

:30:17.:30:20.

in my first year, but I was exposed to different thoughts and I became

:30:21.:30:27.

an atheist afterwards, for example. I think background,

:30:28.:30:29.

where you're born and how you're raised and so on,

:30:30.:30:34.

determines, I think, My parents were working class people

:30:35.:30:36.

who became middle-class, I mean their sort of story of,

:30:37.:30:39.

for want of a better term, rags to riches, I think,

:30:40.:30:44.

is an inspirational one and I think that's why

:30:45.:30:47.

I have a conservative mindset. Education apparently

:30:48.:30:52.

fuels voting habits. In the French election,

:30:53.:30:55.

areas whose inhabitants have less education were much less likely

:30:56.:30:57.

to vote for Macron than Both Brexit and Donald Trump's

:30:58.:30:59.

victory were also driven by people with fewer educational

:31:00.:31:08.

qualifications. Why is education having this effect,

:31:09.:31:08.

and is it patronising even to look Almost as if this is a problem to be

:31:09.:31:13.

fixed, instead of simply Everyone's right to have

:31:14.:31:23.

a different opinion? Newsnight headed up the coast,

:31:24.:31:32.

back to a place that was celebrating when we visited the day

:31:33.:31:35.

after the Brexit vote. Haven't been to sea for 15

:31:36.:31:47.

days, or 18 days, that's John Ellis has worked at North

:31:48.:31:49.

Shields fish quay for 60 years. I can read a little bit

:31:50.:32:06.

and write a little bit, Without educational qualifications,

:32:07.:32:09.

John made a good living doing a valued job in

:32:10.:32:15.

a respected industry. And a kid to your age now,

:32:16.:32:19.

a 15-year-old who left school... Would they have the same prospects

:32:20.:32:22.

as you had back then? What the case was down here,

:32:23.:32:27.

if you worked hard, And when you think about

:32:28.:32:34.

the Prime Minister now, Theresa May? I think she's all right

:32:35.:32:38.

for the country, and The other fella's good

:32:39.:32:46.

as well, the Labour man. But he's got no oomph

:32:47.:32:51.

about him, you know? In heartland Labour Tyneside, many

:32:52.:33:00.

at the fish dock migrated to Ukip. This election not all

:33:01.:33:03.

those votes are assured. The quay master left school at 16

:33:04.:33:06.

to be apprenticed; his children When I was young I had choices,

:33:07.:33:09.

you could go down the yards, the coal mines, the steel yards,

:33:10.:33:19.

but there's nothing I'm just now thinking I won't vote,

:33:20.:33:21.

because there's no one to vote for. You couldn't bring yourself

:33:22.:33:25.

to vote Conservative? They wrecked the northern England

:33:26.:33:28.

the last time they had I mean, I've got two

:33:29.:33:33.

kids now at university. One went into, he's just

:33:34.:33:36.

working at call centres Now at university, because he went

:33:37.:33:38.

into construction but there wasn't the there isn't the work

:33:39.:33:44.

in the north any more. Unless Theresa May can come up to me

:33:45.:33:46.

and put a deal on the table and say, this is what we going to do,

:33:47.:33:50.

this is what we've got for the fishermen, then my vote

:33:51.:33:53.

will be going to Ukip, to put through the job that that

:33:54.:33:56.

they've already started. Jackie Weatherstone

:33:57.:33:58.

left school at 15. He voted Ukip recently, but back

:33:59.:34:00.

in the day it was a different story. I had to be in the Labour Party

:34:01.:34:03.

to get a job, to get to sea, It'd be Conservative,

:34:04.:34:07.

because Ukip's finished, isn't it? This election, 53% of those

:34:08.:34:11.

YouGov asked who have no qualifications plan to vote Tory,

:34:12.:34:20.

17% Ukip, 18% Labour and 5% Lib Dem. The Tory vote share seems

:34:21.:34:26.

to decrease for every extra Of those with degrees,

:34:27.:34:28.

Tory vote share was down to 36%, Ukip just 4%, while Labour

:34:29.:34:33.

was on 28% and the Lib Dems 19%. # Twinkle, twinkle, little star,

:34:34.:34:41.

How I wonder what you are...# The mood music across the Tyne

:34:42.:34:43.

in South Shields is In a place where 62% voted out,

:34:44.:34:46.

and nearly 30% have no At The Word cultural space,

:34:47.:34:56.

the council offers free music sessions for parents and babies,

:34:57.:35:03.

but when it comes to how these people might vote,

:35:04.:35:08.

is it education or employment He left school at 16,

:35:09.:35:10.

did NVQs and an apprenticeship in bricklaying, recently he's voted

:35:11.:35:19.

Ukip. When I was doing a bricklaying

:35:20.:35:23.

apprenticeship, I couldn't get it because at first all the Polish came

:35:24.:35:28.

over and they took over people's So you couldn't get a job

:35:29.:35:31.

after the apprenticeship? No, I got ruled out of it,

:35:32.:35:37.

what was put down on paper, there were too many cheap labourers

:35:38.:35:40.

available and they didn't want to pay for my wage

:35:41.:35:44.

compared to theirs. It didn't make us angry, it's just

:35:45.:35:46.

obvious business sense, isn't it? Why pay for one person on this,

:35:47.:35:51.

when you can get two So when Theresa May says they're

:35:52.:35:54.

to bring immigration way down, Now, for this election,

:35:55.:36:01.

do you think you'd vote Ukip again? Kate Foster, on the left,

:36:02.:36:08.

went to university but didn't From a mining family, she is staunch

:36:09.:36:19.

Labour and voted Remain. And what you feel as

:36:20.:36:26.

a Remainer in this sea Especially, we've got Nissan

:36:27.:36:29.

at Sunderland and I can't understand why a city that depends on industry

:36:30.:36:34.

and outside help... I want to live in a country that's

:36:35.:36:36.

open, open to people that need help, aren't afraid to have friends

:36:37.:36:50.

from all walks of life. I don't see that that's going to be

:36:51.:36:57.

how it's going to be any more. I do think it's under

:36:58.:37:01.

threat, I really do. The referendum gave a voice to those

:37:02.:37:03.

who haven't benefited from our In Durham our students were taking

:37:04.:37:06.

a break from exam revision. Amongst the gang,

:37:07.:37:16.

another Conservative, this time she's a Remainer,

:37:17.:37:17.

and a Liberal Democrat supporter. I don't think our values are under

:37:18.:37:19.

threat as much as we just need to articulate them better,

:37:20.:37:23.

and perhaps in a less I think the liberal establishment

:37:24.:37:25.

has been a bit smug in their messaging and just assuming

:37:26.:37:28.

everyone is on their side. What we need to do is articulate

:37:29.:37:31.

liberal values and just make the point that they're actually

:37:32.:37:34.

British values. I think we struggle

:37:35.:37:36.

within the Brexit rhetoric, Remainders, we lost,

:37:37.:37:39.

and we have to accept that, which is fine, but the way that

:37:40.:37:42.

we're going now, I'm really frightened of a hard Brexit,

:37:43.:37:45.

because that's where the rhetoric I think is leading,

:37:46.:37:49.

especially as the Tory party want to increase their majority,

:37:50.:37:51.

which I want happened too, what are we doing that

:37:52.:37:54.

at the expense of taking in some A university education doesn't give

:37:55.:37:58.

everybody liberal values. Nor is everyone without a degree

:37:59.:38:16.

conservative, but education is a significant predictor of voting

:38:17.:38:18.

behaviour, and with a likely realignment going on on the right,

:38:19.:38:21.

in many areas of Britain it will play a big role in deciding

:38:22.:38:24.

who wins this election. Well, while there's still room

:38:25.:38:29.

in politics for old-fashioned door-knocking and leaflets,

:38:30.:38:33.

the parties are increasingly fighting a sophisticated

:38:34.:38:39.

cyber-campaign, which targets people The fact this kind of messaging

:38:40.:38:41.

is so easily focused at specific groups of voters, means it can be

:38:42.:38:46.

difficult to see exactly what the parties are

:38:47.:38:49.

sending and to whom. We're keen to get to the bottom

:38:50.:38:52.

of this, so we've teamed up with our colleagues from BBC

:38:53.:38:55.

Trending - and we need your help. Mukul Devichand is the editor of BBC

:38:56.:38:58.

Trending and joins me now. What's going on? As you say, it's

:38:59.:39:07.

about what we know and what we don't know. What we know is at least ?1

:39:08.:39:13.

million will be spent on Facebook advertising during the election. It

:39:14.:39:18.

was 1.3 million in 2015. We know it is a really micro-targeted kind of

:39:19.:39:22.

advertising that can look at what your likes and dislikes are, through

:39:23.:39:27.

your friends are, where you are, your age and gender and target

:39:28.:39:30.

messages towards you and parties will be doing that. This was thought

:39:31.:39:33.

to be a game changer in the referendum. One estimate was up to a

:39:34.:39:38.

billion messages sent by the parties. What we don't know is what

:39:39.:39:43.

all those messages say. Some of them are not publicly visible, apart from

:39:44.:39:47.

the people that get them. What you want people to do about it?

:39:48.:39:53.

Newsnight and Trending will be teaming up to try and analyse what

:39:54.:39:57.

to send us. We want you to take a snap of a message you get in your

:39:58.:40:01.

timeline that feels political, send it to us, send us a bit of

:40:02.:40:05.

information about yourself if you don't mind, your age and location

:40:06.:40:08.

and except. How to send is on screen. We will try and analyse that

:40:09.:40:14.

and build up a national picture of the types of messaging that the

:40:15.:40:17.

parties are using and come back to the show and on the BBC Trending

:40:18.:40:21.

blog to report that. Thank you. Now the last of our Viewsnights,

:40:22.:40:27.

pitching ideas for the parties Tonight, it's Times

:40:28.:40:30.

journalist Raphael Hogarth. That's all we have time for tonight.

:40:31.:42:20.

Good night. A cooler night ahead for Scotland

:42:21.:42:39.

and Northern Ireland after the mild and humid night on

:42:40.:42:40.

A look at how Labour is faring in the north of England, Donald Trump's sharing of information with Russia, the educated versus the uneducated, and the concept of taxing land rather business.

Kirsty Wark presents.