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in the Palace of Arts in Exhibition Park. | :00:10. | :00:13. | |
Half the audience is over 60 and half is under 30. | :00:14. | :00:16. | |
How different is life for them and how divided are they over | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
Tonight, a Newsbeat Newsnight special on the generation gap, | :00:20. | :00:50. | |
the world of work, a chance to study without huge debt, the likelihood | :00:51. | :00:52. | |
of owning a home, the kind of country you want to live in, | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
are the younger and older generations worlds apart, | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
and which of the parties offers the best deal? | :01:01. | :01:06. | |
Joining us in Newcastle, 70 people and seven politicians | :01:07. | :01:14. | |
and our resident fact checker, number cruncher, from the | :01:15. | :01:16. | |
Resolution Foundation, Thorsten Bell. | :01:17. | :01:18. | |
Are we right, is there a generational divide? | :01:19. | :01:19. | |
I think everyone agrees there is a generational divide, | :01:20. | :01:22. | |
and the hard job for politicians is pursuing that gap, | :01:23. | :01:24. | |
because they need votes from the young and the old. | :01:25. | :01:27. | |
All right, so, we know that there is an issue, so, | :01:28. | :01:29. | |
what is government's priorities? First, let's hear how the government | :01:30. | :01:30. | |
spends our money and who benefits. Meet Betty Boomer | :01:31. | :01:36. | |
and Millennial Matt. She was born in the post-war years, | :01:37. | :01:37. | |
grew up listening to the Beatles and the Beach Boys, | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
and got her first smartphone He doesn't remember a time | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
before wireless internet. and graduated during | :01:45. | :01:58. | |
the financial crisis. Betty is part of a generation | :01:59. | :02:00. | |
who hold more wealth than the entire A group which is more | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
than twice their size. But who is getting | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
more from the state? The government has increased | :02:08. | :02:09. | |
the health budget. You might think that this | :02:10. | :02:22. | |
benefits everyone. But two fifths of NHS spending | :02:23. | :02:23. | |
is spent on those over 65. An 85-year-old Betty will cost | :02:24. | :02:32. | |
the NHS seven times more than Matt. it isn't just that the government | :02:33. | :02:35. | |
is spending different amounts It is also protecting | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
policies which Betty The triple lock, which is designed | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
to make sure pensions continue to rise and Betty's benefits have | :02:44. | :02:46. | |
been protected In fact, there has been an 8.1% rise | :02:47. | :02:48. | |
in pension benefits since 2007-2008. In contrast, since 2009, working age | :02:49. | :02:54. | |
benefits have fallen by 10%. Joining us tonight, an audience | :02:55. | :03:17. | |
of over 60s and under 30s. And politicians from all the main | :03:18. | :03:20. | |
parties are here, too, so I'm going to ask politicians | :03:21. | :03:22. | |
first, do you accept there is a generational divide | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
and you should be doing something to solve it? | :03:26. | :03:32. | |
Certainly it's a challenge, the two things you have got to do, | :03:33. | :03:35. | |
you have to have a strong economy, and since 2010, we have seen | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
3,000,000 new jobs created. That's hugely important | :03:40. | :03:46. | |
for the young people here. But also to create the revenue, | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
both to invest in 3 million new apprenticeships but also to | :03:50. | :03:52. | |
raise the state pension by ?1250, which we have managed to do... | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
I'm afraid that is over 20 seconds(!) | :03:57. | :04:08. | |
So I'm moving on, to Labour. From Labour, do you accept that | :04:09. | :04:11. | |
there is a divide but actually you have the responsibility to make | :04:12. | :04:13. | |
sure that each person is treated fairly in the divide? | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
Both young and old have been failed by the Tory government, | :04:17. | :04:19. | |
but the truth is, given that this is the first generation that looks | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
set to be poorer than its parents, clearly there is a divide. | :04:24. | :04:25. | |
And it is up to government, the Labour government, | :04:26. | :04:27. | |
to make sure that we see we are stronger together and we are | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
for the many, not the few. Liberal Democrats. | :04:32. | :04:34. | |
How do you characterise that divide? Well, I am always struck by an old | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
quote I remember, "Times are hard, the young don't respect the old." | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
I say old because that was said by Cicero, in the first century, | :04:44. | :04:46. | |
I say old because that was said by Cicero, in the first century, | :04:47. | :04:49. | |
if there is a generational divide, it has always been here. | :04:50. | :04:52. | |
It is up to politicians to offer policies to ameliorate that, | :04:53. | :04:53. | |
restoring housing benefits for the under 21s and triple lock. | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
We are going to talk about policies, you accept there is a divide, | :05:00. | :05:01. | |
you have a responsibility, now moving to the SNP. | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
How does the SNP plan to address that divide? | :05:05. | :05:06. | |
Well, in the SNP, we don't want there to be a generational gap, | :05:07. | :05:09. | |
we want to have intergenerational fairness, we believe the way to do | :05:10. | :05:12. | |
that is to reject Conservative austerity agenda and invest | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
in public services and people. Let's hear from Ukip now, | :05:19. | :05:20. | |
because David Kirton, you have a different view. | :05:21. | :05:22. | |
What problem exists between the generations? | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
I wouldn't use the word divide but there is different needs | :05:28. | :05:29. | |
between the older generation and the younger generation, | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
what I think is the main issue we need to address is everyone | :05:33. | :05:34. | |
is talking about the skills gap, we certainly haven't been training | :05:35. | :05:37. | |
young people with the skills they need, particularly | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
technical skills. Where do you see the | :05:43. | :05:49. | |
divide hurting most? There is a divide within | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
generations. Over 1 million pensioners | :05:56. | :05:58. | |
in poverty, if you are 16 years old, minimum wage of ?4 an hour, | :05:59. | :06:05. | |
if you're older, maybe ?7 an hour work, | :06:06. | :06:07. | |
the question we fundamentally have do ask, who is the economy for, | :06:08. | :06:10. | |
there is enough money to not have this generational divide at all. | :06:11. | :06:13. | |
Where do you see the divide hurting most? | :06:14. | :06:15. | |
There is a divide, but I would say, a lot of the issues that | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
are important to young people are important to old people as well. | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
We advocate an approach that gives care to those people that have | :06:22. | :06:24. | |
paid in over the years, as they look back on it, | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
and add altered that has been one of relative prosperity and giving | :06:28. | :06:29. | |
hope at the same time to a generation that | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
for the first time in many generations without hope. | :06:33. | :06:32. | |
-- as they look back on an adult hood. | :06:33. | :06:39. | |
We have heard just about enough from the politicians for now(!) | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
Let's get to the audience before time ticks away from us. | :06:45. | :06:46. | |
You are going to tell us about your experience in foster care. From my | :06:47. | :06:53. | |
experience in foster care, you can very clearly see the impact of | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
austerity and cuts. Social workers are absolutely overstretched with | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
caseloads that are not manageable anymore, two of my social workers | :07:03. | :07:05. | |
had to leave the profession work is the amount of stress that was forced | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
on them by the nature of their jobs. They are the forgotten kids. They | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
are not really given a voice. There needs to be a lot more done to | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
support them, especially with mental health. That is a massive issue. Do | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
you think younger people get enough help from the government, present | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
government or previous governments, in terms of the money that you pay | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
in taxes coming back to help? Absolutely not, I would say that our | :07:34. | :07:36. | |
generation have greater mental health issues, I think that is a | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
massive issue that affects us, more so than the other generations. Also | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
massive stigma around it. The cuts to the NHS are resonating deeply, | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
and they are breaking people, it is political policy that kills people. | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
Anyone got a different view on a different benefit they have received | :07:56. | :08:03. | |
from the government? I was not sure about the personally, the main thing | :08:04. | :08:12. | |
I would like to put forward as regards benefits and state and young | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
people, first of all, I've got to speak faster, I'm sorry, first of | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
all I would like to say I do not believe the young... I have been | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
through the mill of mental health, I don't believe the young have any | :08:25. | :08:34. | |
worse... Have it any worse than past generations. I have seen so much | :08:35. | :08:41. | |
mental illness as a volunteer in care homes. I myself suffer from | :08:42. | :08:51. | |
manic depression. I would like to make it quite clear that I don't | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
feel that, whilst the young may feel hard done by, I don't think it | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
should be a competition. But the danger is, let's talk to the Liberal | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
Democrats, it turns into a competition, a lot of people feel | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
that the elderly are over served, and if you look at the figures, the | :09:10. | :09:15. | |
younger generation are getting less correspondingly? I think that is | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
true, looking at the things the previous generations have had in | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
terms of house prices, free education grants, the rest of it, | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
and the older generation look at young people with baffled amazement. | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
I don't think we can talk too much about Liberal Democrats and free | :09:33. | :09:35. | |
education, frankly, right now. LAUGHTER | :09:36. | :09:38. | |
I think there are things that are very clear, Dominic, that you have | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
in the past very clearly said, we, the older generation, inclined to | :09:45. | :09:45. | |
vote more. So let's make sure that the older | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
generation is well served, and then you had an issue | :09:51. | :09:53. | |
with your manifesto on the triple lock and suddenly it | :09:54. | :09:55. | |
wasn't going to be quite so rosy for pensioners. | :09:56. | :09:57. | |
And they are not very happy about it. | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
And Kirsty, there are no easy decisions here. | :10:02. | :10:03. | |
On top of having a strong economy, which I mentioned before, | :10:04. | :10:05. | |
which pays the revenue, we have talked about the wish | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
list of things we want, but they have to be paid for, | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
and on top of that, you have to take difficult decisions. | :10:15. | :10:16. | |
One of the things we have had to do is take difficult decisions in | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
relation to some of those benefits. Equally, we have cut | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
the government deficit, the difference between how much is | :10:25. | :10:27. | |
brought in and how much it spends, by 100 billion, | :10:28. | :10:30. | |
we opposed every inch of the way. Spending on education, | :10:31. | :10:31. | |
look at the statistics, spending on education | :10:32. | :10:38. | |
is going to fall... Kirsty, Kirsty, we have taken the | :10:39. | :10:40. | |
difficult decisions for two reasons, one, | :10:41. | :10:42. | |
we don't think the 100 billion should be left in debt and taxes | :10:43. | :10:45. | |
for all the young people here. And, two, so that we can invest more | :10:46. | :10:48. | |
in education, we have 3 million more apprenticeships, | :10:49. | :10:50. | |
1.8 million more kids going to schools that are good | :10:51. | :10:57. | |
or outstanding compare to 2010. Who wants to come back at Dominic. | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
The Tories often talk about good schools as if there is some decide | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
where there is good schools and bad schools, | :11:06. | :11:13. | |
and it speaks to the policy they have on grammar schools. | :11:14. | :11:16. | |
They are designing a two tier system in education that will see the kids | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
in the poor backgrounds fall behind, and the kids in the more affluent | :11:20. | :11:21. | |
backgrounds get better, that is iniquitous. | :11:22. | :11:24. | |
That is why the Liberal Democrat people premium, which we brought | :11:25. | :11:26. | |
in in coalition, has seen the attainment gap close, | :11:27. | :11:27. | |
we want to sustain that. My view is that there is definitely | :11:28. | :11:35. | |
a generational divide in my experience, | :11:36. | :11:36. | |
I went to university, not only did I not have | :11:37. | :11:45. | |
to pay tuition fees, I was given a grant! | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
So that I could live, I could pay my rent and go | :11:49. | :11:50. | |
out and enjoy myself. I came down here with no | :11:51. | :11:53. | |
debt, got a job, one of five that was offered | :11:54. | :11:55. | |
to me, quite easily! I then got a house, easily bored, | :11:56. | :11:58. | |
for three times what I was earning. Today, the same house would cost | :11:59. | :12:01. | |
ten times what someone in the same position as me | :12:02. | :12:03. | |
would be earning today. That is ten times | :12:04. | :12:05. | |
against three times. We will come into housing. | :12:06. | :12:06. | |
He is rubbing it in. I came in under the ?9,000 | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
a year scheme, I get a maintenance loan and a grant, | :12:11. | :12:13. | |
I'm one of the lucky ones, really. In terms of recent students coming | :12:14. | :12:16. | |
in aren't getting grants at all. In particular, nursing students. | :12:17. | :12:18. | |
Which is inherently unfair and leaving them in even more debt. | :12:19. | :12:21. | |
When I think about the amount I'm going to accumulate, | :12:22. | :12:23. | |
it is in the 40,000s. It's very difficult | :12:24. | :12:25. | |
to manage sometimes. The problem is not necessarily | :12:26. | :12:27. | |
with tuition fees, it's more of a housing issue as well. | :12:28. | :12:37. | |
We will come to that. Let me bring in the SNP. The SNP's position is | :12:38. | :12:45. | |
that the triple lock will stay, and also, there will be no means tested | :12:46. | :12:51. | |
fuel allowance, and in Scotland you also do not have tuition fees, and | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
the economy is not doing as well as in the other parts of the United | :12:57. | :12:59. | |
Kingdom, so a situation where there is not endless pots of money. Why | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
can you say, actually, a proportion of these people in here over 60 can | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
afford to pay fuel allowance and do not need as much in their pension as | :13:08. | :13:14. | |
8% increase, why not even it out? In the long term, these guys will not | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
be able to pay for it. There certainly is not an endless pot of | :13:19. | :13:21. | |
money and anyone who suggested that would be wrong but what you can have | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
is different priorities. In Scotland, the Scottish Government is | :13:27. | :13:29. | |
investing in education from the point of preschool years, we have 16 | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
hours free childcare for three and four-year-olds every week. Plus the | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
most vulnerable to-year-olds. We have free school meals. We are | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
investing ?120 million in a pupil equity funds to close the attainment | :13:44. | :13:49. | |
gap, and of course, we have free education... Free higher education | :13:50. | :13:51. | |
which saves ?27,000 a year... Labourer, you're going to help the | :13:52. | :14:17. | |
under 30s when they have kids, by providing free childcare. If that is | :14:18. | :14:20. | |
a policy for the younger generation it will cost the earth. Jeremy | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
Corbyn this morning could not cost it. Did not know how much it would | :14:26. | :14:31. | |
cost. I do not think the most important quality in a Prime | :14:32. | :14:34. | |
Minister is to memorise the balance sheet. It will cost ?5 billion. That | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
is an embarrassment for all generations. For young parents who | :14:40. | :14:44. | |
know having good quality childcare enables them to go up to work and | :14:45. | :14:54. | |
contribute to the economy. But grandparents acting as carers, | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
they're taking it up. This liberates younger and older. And most | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
importantly, and this is the difference between us and the | :15:04. | :15:06. | |
Conservatives, they see all public services as some kind of money sink. | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
This enables our economy to be stronger and better because we have | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
well cared for children and parents who can contribute to the economy. | :15:17. | :15:19. | |
That is why we are investing in it. You want to come in on that? | :15:20. | :15:28. | |
I would like to say there is a whole group of women who are finding it | :15:29. | :15:31. | |
difficult to take up those caring responsibilities now. | :15:32. | :15:34. | |
A group of women born in the 1950s, expecting to retire at 60. | :15:35. | :15:39. | |
Not getting their pension when they expected it. | :15:40. | :15:41. | |
Not being informed of the change in their age. | :15:42. | :15:44. | |
They would love to be looking after their grandchildren, | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
they're having to continue to work and because they are working, | :15:49. | :15:51. | |
they may be contributing to paying taxes, but they are unable to make | :15:52. | :15:53. | |
that wonderful contribution of looking after their grandchildren | :15:54. | :16:01. | |
and helping with childcare. So clearly a divide | :16:02. | :16:03. | |
within that issue itself between the generations. | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
But what about the divide in the workplace? | :16:09. | :16:17. | |
We've grown used to the idea that our children's lives will be | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
easier than our own. But is that true for | :16:23. | :16:25. | |
Millennial Matt and his friends? If we look at this graph, | :16:26. | :16:28. | |
we can see that earnings have increased year on year since Betty | :16:29. | :16:30. | |
was a girl. Until the financial crisis in 2008. | :16:31. | :16:37. | |
Everyone was hit hard. But the youngest were hit hardest. | :16:38. | :16:40. | |
Matt has experienced a 12% real pay fall whereas Betty's | :16:41. | :16:46. | |
went down just 3.7%. This means that Matt is ending | :16:47. | :16:49. | |
?8,000 less in his 20s than his parents did. | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
For the first time ever, he cannot expect to be better off | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
than his mum and dad. Partly this is because annual pay | :16:59. | :17:00. | |
increases have gone down while the cost of living | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
has gone up. In other words, he has less money | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
coming in and more going out. The typical annual real pay increase | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
for employees has fallen from a healthy 4% when Betty | :17:13. | :17:15. | |
was in her 20s too close to zero today for Matt. | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
Perhaps this explains why a quarter of adults still needed help | :17:20. | :17:22. | |
from the Bank of Mum and Dad by the age of 35. | :17:23. | :17:28. | |
Let's now talk about inequalities at work and concerns people have | :17:29. | :17:32. | |
about jobs and being worse off than the generation before. | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
Do you worry about being worse off than your parents or grandparents? | :17:37. | :17:42. | |
I do in a way. I do feel worse off because I feel | :17:43. | :17:46. | |
I think Labour have caused us to be in dire straits with the economy | :17:47. | :17:49. | |
because of the spending they did in their previous government. | :17:50. | :18:01. | |
It has left us with a poorer future. Who is worried about that here? | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
Lots of people worried about debt. What are your concerns about debt | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
and not actually being able to save? I graduate this year, | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
I will be ?27,000 in debt. I'm going to move home, | :18:17. | :18:19. | |
I have not got prospects of a job and I'm finding it difficult to get | :18:20. | :18:22. | |
on the housing ladder. It is pretty bleak. | :18:23. | :18:26. | |
It is worrying me and I do not think, I do not blame older people, | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
but I'm jealous of the benefits they have had. | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
That is interesting because this young woman is jealous | :18:35. | :18:36. | |
of the benefits that you have all had in your lives. | :18:37. | :18:43. | |
Do you think you have had it better than the younger | :18:44. | :18:45. | |
generations are having today? Tell me why you think you do. | :18:46. | :18:48. | |
We did not have tuition fees, we had grants. | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
We could easily find a job. And we can get back there, I think | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
with the Labour Party policies, and having growth and investment, | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
we can get back to that. Gentleman in the background? | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
I also think it is quite an issue that the kinds of jobs that young | :19:07. | :19:10. | |
people are now being offered involve them in sort of arrangement | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
like zero hours contracts, having to work well below their actual | :19:15. | :19:17. | |
expectations after university. In order to actually even get | :19:18. | :19:20. | |
a permanent long-term job. I feel that is quite unfair. | :19:21. | :19:29. | |
What expectations do you have of your working career? | :19:30. | :19:32. | |
The research says that actually you are much less likely | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
to see your earnings increase because you're going to be too | :19:38. | :19:43. | |
scared to move jobs. You're going to be worried about | :19:44. | :19:46. | |
moving jobs, worried about job insecurity. | :19:47. | :19:47. | |
I wonder does anyone actually have an ISA, | :19:48. | :19:50. | |
even a private pension for example, they are paying into? | :19:51. | :19:51. | |
Gentleman at the back has a private pension. | :19:52. | :19:54. | |
Anyone else like to talk about their concerns | :19:55. | :19:56. | |
about the world of work? Heather, I should come | :19:57. | :19:57. | |
to you straightaway because you are about to be starting | :19:58. | :20:00. | |
mental health nursing and you reckon 60,000 | :20:01. | :20:03. | |
is what it is going to cost you. Yes. | :20:04. | :20:06. | |
I do not come from a well-off background. | :20:07. | :20:09. | |
I have been saving for quite a few years to put | :20:10. | :20:12. | |
towards my university fees. But when I graduate it will be | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
towards the ?60,000 mark. I'm going into mental health nursing | :20:18. | :20:20. | |
so working for the NHS, that in itself scares me. | :20:21. | :20:22. | |
Given the direction it is going in right now. | :20:23. | :20:32. | |
And I am worried I'm going to spend so much money on this education, | :20:33. | :20:35. | |
will I even get a job at the end of it as a qualified nurse, | :20:36. | :20:38. | |
will I even be able to provide for my future family? | :20:39. | :20:41. | |
A theme emerging I think on this side of the room about low wages, | :20:42. | :20:44. | |
low expectations in terms of the careers you can | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
hope to go on to do. Dominic from the Conservatives, | :20:50. | :20:51. | |
things are looking grim for this half of the room at the moment, | :20:52. | :20:54. | |
there is no denying that. I think grim is wrong, | :20:55. | :20:56. | |
I think which can be optimistic about the future. | :20:57. | :20:59. | |
But it is difficult I think for this generation. | :21:00. | :21:01. | |
We cut youth unemployment from the 20% we inherited to 12%. | :21:02. | :21:04. | |
And we have left the average basic rate taxpayer, | :21:05. | :21:06. | |
low and middle income earners, with ?1000 more in their pockets. | :21:07. | :21:08. | |
We have introduced the national minimum wage. | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
I think a big issue is housing. We have seen 300,000 more | :21:12. | :21:13. | |
affordable homes built. But we are ambitious | :21:14. | :21:15. | |
to build even more. But there is no getting away | :21:16. | :21:18. | |
from the basic fundamentals, you need a strong economy to deliver | :21:19. | :21:26. | |
the jobs and investment. Let me come in here, Dominic keeps | :21:27. | :21:29. | |
talking about a strong economy but you never ask the question | :21:30. | :21:32. | |
who is the economy for. The fact is the Conservatives have | :21:33. | :21:34. | |
cut corporation tax, that is a tax on the profits | :21:35. | :21:36. | |
of big corporations. Since 2010. | :21:37. | :21:38. | |
To the point where we could perhaps be getting 20 million, | :21:39. | :21:41. | |
?20 billion a year, 8 billion of which could pay for Heather's | :21:42. | :21:43. | |
tuition fees, another 12 billion could go into actually providing | :21:44. | :21:46. | |
those decent jobs and investing. It doesn't have to be this way. | :21:47. | :21:52. | |
You have a whole bank of people over 60 wanting in here on this. | :21:53. | :21:55. | |
On the question of jobs, job security, pay and so forth. | :21:56. | :22:02. | |
Gentleman in the front. Do you think that actually you have | :22:03. | :22:05. | |
had it a lot better than this generation? | :22:06. | :22:07. | |
No, I have been through the world of work now since I was 16. | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
I have not been in a single job for more than three years. | :22:12. | :22:14. | |
I have not got a pension, I have had to, towards the end | :22:15. | :22:17. | |
of this I have been better paid so I bought a flat to rent out, | :22:18. | :22:23. | |
to use as my pension. And thank you again | :22:24. | :22:25. | |
to the Conservatives for taking tax off me because they have changed | :22:26. | :22:33. | |
the tax rules on renting. Do you think this generation has | :22:34. | :22:36. | |
got to harden up a bit and take it on the chin? | :22:37. | :22:38. | |
There is part of that. But also I think they were sold down | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
the river with the tuition fees for universities. | :22:43. | :22:45. | |
Because they were promised that those tuition fees would never | :22:46. | :22:49. | |
be shown as being part of their loans and debt. | :22:50. | :22:54. | |
As part of the older generation, would you have been prepared to pay | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
more tax to make sure this generation had a free | :22:59. | :23:00. | |
university education? I'm already doing that. | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
Yes. Hands up how many would be prepared | :23:05. | :23:07. | |
to pay a little more tax, the radio is listening in here, | :23:08. | :23:10. | |
and it is a full house. I would like to say practically | :23:11. | :23:13. | |
every person over 60 says they would be prepared to pay more | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
tax, a hypothecated tax, to have young people going to college | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
and university free. The gentleman with the purple | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
shirt in the background. This is the difficulty, | :23:26. | :23:28. | |
you're talking about strong economy but most of these people are not | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
even going to be able to engage in that strong economy | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
because they're not going to be able to earn a living wage, | :23:37. | :23:38. | |
they're not going to be able, they will be weighed down by huge | :23:39. | :23:41. | |
amount of debt. It is just ridiculous. | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
You're not even going to be to earn a living wage. | :23:46. | :23:47. | |
Gentleman here. I worked part-time along | :23:48. | :23:49. | |
with my undergraduate degree, I'm now doing a masters degree | :23:50. | :23:52. | |
so in total I will have about ?60,000 worth of student debt. | :23:53. | :23:54. | |
Which is unbelievable. The Tories will tell you you do not | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
have to pay it back until you earn over 21 grand and that is fine. | :23:59. | :24:02. | |
But the reality is there is no incentive for me to want to earn | :24:03. | :24:05. | |
over 21 grand because I'm never going to pay more than | :24:06. | :24:07. | |
the interest I am accumulating. So you are stuck? | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
He is stuck? I do not know, it is | :24:12. | :24:14. | |
a personal situation. But he is telling you. | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
I understand. I did a masters and I had to pay | :24:19. | :24:21. | |
towards my fees for my masters at that stage and I know | :24:22. | :24:23. | |
it is difficult. But we also need the younger | :24:24. | :24:26. | |
generation to think about the choices they are making | :24:27. | :24:28. | |
and see whether it is worth while for them. | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
Do you think it is worth someone going to university to come out | :24:33. | :24:34. | |
with ?60,000 worth of debt, and not have the possibility | :24:35. | :24:42. | |
of having a job in anything like that income bracket? | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
I would say I want to go into academia and near | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
enough all the Ph.D. stipends are EU funded. | :24:51. | :24:52. | |
The government said it is going to replace the funding we will lose | :24:53. | :24:55. | |
from leaving the EU but do I believe that? | :24:56. | :24:57. | |
Do I believe the 350 million for the NHS? | :24:58. | :25:07. | |
This is probably a good time to go to independent expert Torsten | :25:08. | :25:10. | |
Bell. Is it with these guys even bothering to go to university, | :25:11. | :25:12. | |
forking out for those tuition fees, if they live in England, | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
for the wages that they are going to earn in their various careers? | :25:18. | :25:23. | |
Everyone would prefer not to have tuition fees or fees | :25:24. | :25:25. | |
for anything you are doing. There is a big difference | :25:26. | :25:28. | |
between the world that a lot of people here have been talking | :25:29. | :25:30. | |
about when they went to university because only five | :25:31. | :25:33. | |
or 10% of the population went to university. | :25:34. | :25:35. | |
25 year olds now have a third of them will have gone to university. | :25:36. | :25:38. | |
We do need to be careful because lots of the older generation | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
did not go to university, they did not all get free grants. | :25:42. | :25:44. | |
So yes the small numbers that did go to university got good jobs. | :25:45. | :25:47. | |
If we look at the employment practices, the level of employment | :25:48. | :25:49. | |
amongst those older generations, far fewer of them had unemployment | :25:50. | :25:52. | |
than the young people today. Man in the front row. | :25:53. | :25:54. | |
Starting out on a career, we had good support, | :25:55. | :25:56. | |
we had reasonable wages, we had free education and we worked | :25:57. | :25:59. | |
hard, every bit as hard as you guys are working, | :26:00. | :26:02. | |
but we got rewards for it. And that is what is missing | :26:03. | :26:05. | |
for this generation. And it is a tragedy. | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
The Labour Party say they want to put up a living wage | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
to ?10 an hour by 2020. I think that is right. | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
But there are worries that that will hit the lowest paid | :26:20. | :26:21. | |
because employers simply will not be able to pay it. | :26:22. | :26:23. | |
You cannot just throw money at the issue of low wages. | :26:24. | :26:26. | |
A low-wage, low skill economy is the reason why some people | :26:27. | :26:29. | |
here do not think it is worthwhile going to university. | :26:30. | :26:31. | |
We all benefit from a high skill, high wage economy. | :26:32. | :26:34. | |
And raising the minimum wage to ?10 an hour by 2020 | :26:35. | :26:38. | |
which is what we have committed to do, that will give people | :26:39. | :26:41. | |
a better incentive to work and also reduce the benefits that we pay out, | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
the subsidy the state pays for people to stay in low-wage, | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
low-income jobs and it will help transform our economy. | :26:50. | :26:55. | |
We cannot make our way in the world as a low-wage, low-income economy. | :26:56. | :26:57. | |
That is what Dominic does not understand. | :26:58. | :27:06. | |
We need high skills. ?10 an hour, still | :27:07. | :27:09. | |
not film star wages. Is that a good living wage to hope | :27:10. | :27:12. | |
for even in five years' time? The gentleman in the | :27:13. | :27:15. | |
T-shirt in the front. Going back to the university | :27:16. | :27:17. | |
question, I have a degree, I now regret going for that degree. | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
Because I was told if I went into a place where jobs were needed | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
in various parts of the country, which I did, and I came out of that | :27:28. | :27:33. | |
degree and no jobs at all. You had to travel to go to free | :27:34. | :27:36. | |
internships in certain places in Manchester and London. | :27:37. | :27:39. | |
I now regret that because every time I now go for a job I'm | :27:40. | :27:42. | |
either overqualified or do not have experience. | :27:43. | :27:48. | |
So it is a barrier, sometimes I take it off my CV. | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
What do you say to that? I also want to come back | :27:53. | :27:55. | |
to the mental health nurse to be and I thank you for going into that | :27:56. | :27:58. | |
profession because mental health is very much the unsung profession | :27:59. | :28:01. | |
within the health service. What would you do about public | :28:02. | :28:04. | |
sector pay to make sure Heather did not get 1%? | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
The cap, lift the 1% cap because right now a new nurse | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
like Heather is going to be will be ?530 a year worse off by the end | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
of this decade as a result of that 1% year on year rise, | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
based on a 2% inflation. You're just not getting the money | :28:21. | :28:26. | |
to keep pace with inflation. Gentleman in the background. | :28:27. | :28:29. | |
Instead of freezing wages as they do with the 1% cap, | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
why not link it to what the MPs get? They would think about it then. | :28:34. | :28:40. | |
Guaranteed applause for that line! I just wonder if there is anyone | :28:41. | :28:43. | |
on this over 60s half of the room who is still working, | :28:44. | :28:46. | |
let us not have the impression that all sitting pretty in retirement | :28:47. | :28:48. | |
on huge wads of cash? Quite a few of you. | :28:49. | :28:54. | |
I have been made redundant several times throughout my working life. | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
I'm running my own business at the moment but earning next to nothing. | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
Having said that I still pay tax and would gladly pay more | :29:03. | :29:05. | |
to support these young people through their education. | :29:06. | :29:10. | |
On the question of jobs and helping, I wonder in the bank of over 60s, | :29:11. | :29:14. | |
who has been, who has had to be the bank of mum and dad or the bank | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
of Granny and grandad? Just one two, three. | :29:20. | :29:27. | |
Not many. My children were fortunate enough | :29:28. | :29:30. | |
to get grants to go to university. But if not you would have had | :29:31. | :29:33. | |
to help, or they just would not have gone to university? | :29:34. | :29:36. | |
Yes. I wonder if any of you actually | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
regret, apart from this gentleman here, in the under 30s, | :29:41. | :29:43. | |
regret your career path because actually you have come out | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
worse than you thought you would be? Holly in the front? | :29:49. | :29:51. | |
I'm a teacher, I just do not feel for what I do, | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
the amount of work I put in, I do not feel I'm getting enough. | :29:56. | :29:58. | |
And going back to the motivation, of the students and teaching, | :29:59. | :30:01. | |
saying to them you will have to pay this much for university, | :30:02. | :30:03. | |
there is going to be so much competition, | :30:04. | :30:05. | |
and no job security. You're going to be working | :30:06. | :30:07. | |
until you are at least 70. Those young adults. | :30:08. | :30:10. | |
It is just, it is really difficult for me to be motivating. | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
I wonder if you don't necessarily resent but question the fact that | :30:17. | :30:23. | |
triple lock on state pensions means that pensions have risen 8% since | :30:24. | :30:29. | |
2005, and if the triple lock continues, will continue to rise, so | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
basically you have the chance that the minimum is going to be 2.5%, | :30:34. | :30:38. | |
increase for pensioners, each year, how do you feel about that? This lot | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
don't look too old! LAUGHTER They don't look too old! Howedes | :30:43. | :30:51. | |
feel about that? I don't want any division. -- how do you feel like | :30:52. | :30:55. | |
about that? Any to be more cohesive, certain parties are trying to divide | :30:56. | :31:00. | |
the young and old, I think that is difficult. We have concerns about | :31:01. | :31:15. | |
jobs. Now, to a pretty stark difference, housing. | :31:16. | :31:25. | |
If we look at Betty's generation, 65% of them own their own home. | :31:26. | :31:28. | |
By comparison, Millennial Matt has struggled to get | :31:29. | :31:30. | |
At the age of 30, only 40% of his generation owns a property. | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
So was it easier to buy a house in the 1970s? | :31:35. | :31:37. | |
In 1974 Betty was 26 and was able to buy her first term for 2.5 | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
a 30-year-old Matt is struggling to buy his first home. | :31:42. | :31:58. | |
The property will cost on average more than four | :31:59. | :32:00. | |
So Matt and his friends are stuck renting from private landlords. | :32:01. | :32:04. | |
Matt will spend on average ?44,000 more on rent than Betty did. | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
And to make matters worse, | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
he is probably paying his rent to Betty! | :32:14. | :32:16. | |
Half of all rent that goes to private landlords, | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
around ?4 billion a year, goes to those over 60. | :32:21. | :32:23. | |
The effect of this is a two thirds of the aggregate wealth created | :32:24. | :32:26. | |
since 2007 went to Betty and her generation while wealth | :32:27. | :32:28. | |
format and those aged 16 to 34 has fallen. | :32:29. | :32:39. | |
Let's start this section with a quick show of hands, this will be | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
interesting, on the younger side of the room, how many people already | :32:44. | :32:49. | |
own their own home? One man! Sheepishly putting his hand up. The | :32:50. | :32:56. | |
most dead, only his own home! And just out of interest, how many of | :32:57. | :32:59. | |
you expect to own your own home before you are 30? One, two, three, | :33:00. | :33:05. | |
four... Just a few of you. There is a glimmer of hope there. Let's go to | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
Dean, in the back row, you are saving hard to buy your own home, | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
how much are you putting away a month? ?700 a month, that is the | :33:15. | :33:21. | |
maximum I can put away for a help to buy ISA and I saved ?2400 last year. | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
How much were you saving each month? I have saved ?2400 per year, that | :33:27. | :33:32. | |
will do well towards a deposit. What about your social life? I live with | :33:33. | :33:39. | |
mother and father, so...! Interesting, help to buy scheme, | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
Labour is going to phase out the help to buy scheme by 2020 and yet | :33:45. | :33:47. | |
it is the only lifeline that many young people have of the possibility | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
they will get on the housing ladder, why phase out help to buy? What we | :33:52. | :33:56. | |
have found is that helps to buy has been going to people who have over | :33:57. | :34:03. | |
?100,000, and it has not succeeded in changing the housing market. -- | :34:04. | :34:07. | |
Help to Buy. What we are hoping to do is to build investor build 1 | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
million new homes over the next Parliament. So no? ... So no Help to | :34:12. | :34:22. | |
Buy? We will be building affordable homes that young people can afford. | :34:23. | :34:29. | |
Who likes Help to Buy? Anybody else? You are doing it. How much has Help | :34:30. | :34:35. | |
to Buy given new optimism that you might get on the housing ladder | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
question mark it has given me a lot of optimism, I'm saving ?200 a month | :34:40. | :34:43. | |
as well, living with mum and dad helps as well, so it has given me | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
optimism, especially with the extra money the government give you, it | :34:48. | :34:50. | |
gives a boost to your savings and makes it easier to save. | :34:51. | :34:53. | |
Who is paying through the nose for rent at the moment? Whose biggest | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
bill is rent? Probably pretty much all of you. In the second row...? | :34:59. | :35:06. | |
The lady in the blue. I'm studying at college at the moment, just | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
because I'm a student I am allowed to be a bit more flippant with my | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
spending, but I don't have a job at the moment, that's practically | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
impossible, I don't quite know what to do, really, it's impossible for | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
me. That in a vicious circle. Who has had terrible accommodation that | :35:24. | :35:25. | |
they cannot believe they have had to pay for? We have had housing, | :35:26. | :35:32. | |
student housing, for the last three years, one of the being in halls, | :35:33. | :35:35. | |
private renting for the rest of it, we have gone through these, | :35:36. | :35:42. | |
administration fees, hundreds of pounds each year paid just to go for | :35:43. | :35:47. | |
the house, just to put the paperwork through, shoddy work done for | :35:48. | :35:53. | |
repairs, the heating, I am sure most people remember the student has been | :35:54. | :35:57. | |
cold and damp, and all the horror stories that you hear are true, | :35:58. | :36:03. | |
basically. Let me bring the greens in here, because you have, on the | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
question of private renting, do you accept it is often really badly | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
maintained, terrible rents, and you have a plan to change that? You have | :36:14. | :36:19. | |
to get the heart of why there is a problem, the 2011 census showed we | :36:20. | :36:23. | |
have more rooms per head of population than we have had in our | :36:24. | :36:26. | |
history, this is not about generations competing, it is that | :36:27. | :36:30. | |
housing has been turned into a speculative commodity, fuelled by | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
buy to let landlords, trying to make money from young people and old | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
people. If you take the subsidy away from the buy to let landlords, put | :36:40. | :36:42. | |
it into social housing, allow councils to borrow against that, | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
increase the supply, take the heat out of the housing market, have rent | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
controlled as well, give local authorities the opportunity to cap | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
rents and control them so we have a living rent. We can do it if we have | :36:56. | :36:58. | |
the political will. This has been framed as young versus old. | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
Actually, it really is not like that, there is enough money, if we | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
have the political will, does not need to be taken from the old to | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
give to the young. We can altogether have it. Shared responsibility from | :37:12. | :37:14. | |
the greens. The fact is all the parties will promise to build | :37:15. | :37:17. | |
however many new homes it is, the SNP, you cannot... Naomi, the | :37:18. | :37:23. | |
government is not building homes in any parts of the UK that are | :37:24. | :37:28. | |
anything like at the required rate. First of all, I'm 24 years old, I'm | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
acutely aware of all of these difficulties that you are discussing | :37:33. | :37:36. | |
from your accommodation when you are a student through to saving in your | :37:37. | :37:41. | |
ISAs and things like that. -- Mairi. The Scottish National Party has | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
built 50,000 affordable homes and helped people into home ownership, | :37:46. | :37:48. | |
22,000, by shared equity schemes, and we have scrapped the right to | :37:49. | :37:54. | |
buy, and we are going to restore housing benefit for 18 to 21-year | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
old, that is something the Tories scrapped. In all these ways, we are | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
trying to help young people in Scotland make the really important | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
move into the housing ladder. Dominik, in 2015, the Tories pledged | :38:08. | :38:14. | |
to build million new homes by 2020, since March, last year, you have | :38:15. | :38:23. | |
built 100 watts...? I know that -- 100 and what? It has been 168,000 | :38:24. | :38:32. | |
350. That is not on track to build 1 million homes by 2020. We have seen | :38:33. | :38:38. | |
300,000 affordable homes made since 2010, and plans for 400,000 new ones | :38:39. | :38:45. | |
for both encouraging social housing in councils to create housing for | :38:46. | :38:54. | |
rent, but also. What about borrowing, to build affordable | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
homes. We talk about borrowing and the wish list, the money tree that | :38:59. | :39:01. | |
keeps giving money, but the Scottish Government deficit is three times... | :39:02. | :39:08. | |
We need to do this in a responsible way. You are taking the debt and | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
putting it around the neck of young people. We keep racking up these | :39:14. | :39:16. | |
debts, these young people have to pay them off. Taking public debts... | :39:17. | :39:24. | |
It is not right to promise 1 million homes, then, is it? We are | :39:25. | :39:31. | |
redoubling efforts, to deal with rental as well as homes to buy. We | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
need to hear from somebody on the older side of the room am a new has | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
a spare room, wouldn't mind mind renting it out? In all seriousness, | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
who has a fairly big cows, plenty of room in it, but you are still living | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
in it and maybe it could help solve the housing crisis? Two, in four | :39:50. | :39:56. | |
bedroom, but I would like to say, I don't think it was any different in | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
our day, getting on the housing ladder, we needed to pay 15%, in my | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
language that equated to almost two years salary, gross, not net, gross. | :40:06. | :40:15. | |
OK. Then, we went through the process just over 1990, where the | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
interest rate on the mortgage actually went up to 16, 17%, every | :40:20. | :40:24. | |
month getting a letter to say it was going up and up and up, when we | :40:25. | :40:29. | |
bought the house, when we bought the house, our mortgage doubled. And we | :40:30. | :40:38. | |
had to give into something. And that was our main thing to do, to pay the | :40:39. | :40:43. | |
mortgage. Sounds like a lot of these guys have given up on owning their | :40:44. | :40:46. | |
own home, is this an impossible dream? Should young people not worry | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
about owning their own home? What about that, will we be a property | :40:51. | :40:59. | |
owning democracy? This generation will not see the same home ownership | :41:00. | :41:06. | |
rates that baby boomers saw. 80% for baby boomers, these guys are around | :41:07. | :41:09. | |
half that and will never get up to 80%, there were hired first-rate, | :41:10. | :41:13. | |
but the flip side, house prices in Britain have gone through the roof | :41:14. | :41:19. | |
over the last 30 years. I would like to go back to the point made by | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
Dominic on borrowing being a barrier to affordable home building. | :41:24. | :41:32. | |
Absolutely note credibility 1 billion in government debt to 1:7... | :41:33. | :41:36. | |
1 trillion, to 1.7 trillion, how on earth do you think your government | :41:37. | :41:43. | |
track record is credible at all. Until you have paid off the deficit, | :41:44. | :41:51. | |
you cannot... Until you pay off the deficit, you cannot... You cannot | :41:52. | :41:55. | |
get the debt down, we have... The debt is increasing, the debt is | :41:56. | :42:00. | |
increasing. Until you get the deficit down... That shows you how | :42:01. | :42:06. | |
important it is... Austerity... Austerity... Right back to where we | :42:07. | :42:10. | |
started. Austerity is an ideological choice, you can grow your way out of | :42:11. | :42:15. | |
debt, wrote to a surplus. We are not going to take lessons from the SNP | :42:16. | :42:18. | |
on economics. LAUGHTER Lot of the policies we are pursuing | :42:19. | :42:24. | |
in Scotland... The Scottish economy contracted at the end of 2016, your | :42:25. | :42:29. | |
budget deficit is three times... That is a key indicator of | :42:30. | :42:32. | |
economic... The gentleman on the second row, in the under 30 section. | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
I grew up in quality housing, I have lived with high costs and poor | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
conditions for a long time, I don't think... It has got worse and worse | :42:42. | :42:45. | |
in recent years... I don't think that is because the economy is | :42:46. | :42:48. | |
rigged for the old, it is because it is rigged for the rich, it is no | :42:49. | :42:54. | |
coincidence that 70% of Tories Tory MPs are landlords, they have | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
modelled on revenge evictions, the wealthiest Tory MP in the country | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
has jacked up rents, so the families who lived there all their lives | :43:03. | :43:05. | |
could not afford to live there anymore. How much longer are we | :43:06. | :43:08. | |
going to go on with 3 million children living in damp and mould | :43:09. | :43:14. | |
and vermin in the sixth richest economy in the world, how much | :43:15. | :43:17. | |
longer will we accept this? What would you do if you were in power? | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
She is bang on the money, 1 million new homes, half... Half public, | :43:22. | :43:28. | |
half... It is possible, if you stop building luxury flats and start | :43:29. | :43:32. | |
building affordable homes. And if you have a bit of planning and | :43:33. | :43:34. | |
strategy rather than just... To bring in Ukip. You heard that | :43:35. | :43:47. | |
this is the end of a property owning democracy in the same way it was | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
before. Do we just have disabled people are not going to be able to | :43:53. | :43:55. | |
afford their own homes in the future and it will all be landlords perhaps | :43:56. | :44:00. | |
from this bracket who will be renting out their homes? It is not | :44:01. | :44:03. | |
acceptable but decisions have been made over the past 20 years which | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
have led to the situation we're in. There is a lot of unreality in what | :44:09. | :44:13. | |
I've been hearing, we talk about affordable homes but those could be | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
80% of market price if the market price is 300,000 unaffordable home | :44:19. | :44:23. | |
is 240,000. That is still not affordable. Everyone has made | :44:24. | :44:27. | |
promises to build and for 20 years it has not happened. We have not | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
mentioned as Ukip have mentioned often, you cannot separate the | :44:33. | :44:36. | |
housing crisis from immigration levels that we have had. And over | :44:37. | :44:42. | |
the last 20 years there has been huge increase in immigration which | :44:43. | :44:49. | |
has been a deliberate policy of Tony Blair, David Cameron and Theresa May | :44:50. | :44:52. | |
and together with not building enough homes for the demand. Who | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
thinks that the housing crisis is due to immigration, show of hands? | :44:57. | :45:02. | |
Two or three hands. It is basic supply and demand and you cannot | :45:03. | :45:09. | |
separate the two. It is a factor as it is in schools. There are many | :45:10. | :45:17. | |
empty homes in deprived areas in parts of Wales. People cannot afford | :45:18. | :45:23. | |
to buy them. The Conservative representative has talked about | :45:24. | :45:25. | |
controlling national debt and they have failed to get to grips with | :45:26. | :45:29. | |
that but they're happy with young people going heavily into debt. Many | :45:30. | :45:35. | |
of them will not reach the pain threshold for when they start to pay | :45:36. | :45:39. | |
back their student loan. That is the reality of the problems young people | :45:40. | :45:47. | |
are facing. I'm getting confused and irritated to some extent. I have | :45:48. | :45:53. | |
five children, two of them bought good houses in this area in their | :45:54. | :45:59. | |
mid-20s. Just in the past five years. I do not understand all this | :46:00. | :46:05. | |
difficulty. Do not tell the people down south for goodness' sake but | :46:06. | :46:08. | |
one of the benefits of living in this area is housing is affordable. | :46:09. | :46:15. | |
I do not understand most of the arguments. And I have examples. | :46:16. | :46:21. | |
Let's bring in the Labour representative. As previous and | :46:22. | :46:27. | |
leave this area, housing was one of the top three issues constituents | :46:28. | :46:32. | |
came to see me about every week. House prices are more reasonable | :46:33. | :46:35. | |
here but the incomes are much lower and the ability to save for the | :46:36. | :46:42. | |
deposit also lower. So I have a young woman constituent of working | :46:43. | :46:44. | |
for the government on a very good wage and she cannot afford to buy | :46:45. | :46:47. | |
her home. That is not being reckless. Does that ring true with | :46:48. | :47:01. | |
anyone from the under 30s? I'm from London and am considering, I have to | :47:02. | :47:07. | |
move back home now and it is embarrassing, but that is just the | :47:08. | :47:13. | |
issue. Prices are now extortionate. Do not be embarrassed. Is there a | :47:14. | :47:20. | |
geographical split, a difference? There are geographical differences | :47:21. | :47:24. | |
in house prices and earnings across the country. The north-east has a | :47:25. | :47:28. | |
higher rate of home ownership but it is not just a London issue. Places | :47:29. | :47:33. | |
like west Yorkshire and Greater Manchester, over a 50% decline in | :47:34. | :47:38. | |
home ownership amongst young families since just the 1990s. And | :47:39. | :47:44. | |
the older half of the audience? I'm a bit let landlord, I invested in | :47:45. | :47:52. | |
buy to let. I did not want to, did that because I want attention and | :47:53. | :47:58. | |
annuity rates have crashed. One of the reasons that, one of the | :47:59. | :48:01. | |
benefits for being young nowadays is interest rates are so low. What I | :48:02. | :48:07. | |
was playing, 15% interest on a mortgage in the 1980s. The only way | :48:08. | :48:13. | |
that I could build up a pension fund was to go into buy to let. What | :48:14. | :48:18. | |
you're saying is that housing for you is an investment and not a place | :48:19. | :48:22. | |
to live. Exactly but only because I cannot get a decent annuity rate. Do | :48:23. | :48:31. | |
you understand how some landlords are rapacious and actually some of | :48:32. | :48:34. | |
them have bad properties that they do not maintain. Do you think that | :48:35. | :48:41. | |
you really set the fair rent? I said just below the market rent. But I do | :48:42. | :48:47. | |
everything in accordance with the law and the returns on buy to let | :48:48. | :48:52. | |
are pretty poor if you do everything properly. This guy has several | :48:53. | :48:56. | |
houses. Who sees it as a realistic investment for the future? Nobody. | :48:57. | :49:04. | |
House prices have steadily been increasing and will continue to | :49:05. | :49:07. | |
increase as long as we have a strong economy. The only way to do that is | :49:08. | :49:13. | |
to get a Conservative government. We are running short of time on | :49:14. | :49:19. | |
housing. I think there is a clear split in the room over that. With | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
Brexit ahead what kind of country do we want to live in? | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
Older and younger voters have always been polarised. | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
So we would expect them to disagree. 65% of Betty and her buddies think | :49:35. | :49:38. | |
that membership of the EU has eroded British identity. | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
But less than a third of Matt's mates would agree. | :49:43. | :49:46. | |
In fact, almost 43% of those under 30 consider themselves | :49:47. | :49:51. | |
to be Europeans first. In the days after the Brexit vote, | :49:52. | :49:54. | |
Matt was one of the three out of four young people | :49:55. | :49:58. | |
who voted to remain. He complained that his identity had | :49:59. | :50:02. | |
been taken away by the 64% of over 60s who voted to leave. | :50:03. | :50:06. | |
Betty might argue that more young people ought | :50:07. | :50:11. | |
to have turned out to vote. There was a 64% turnout amongst 18 | :50:12. | :50:14. | |
to 24-year-olds, whereas 90% of Betty's friends voted. | :50:15. | :50:18. | |
But now that Article 50 has been triggered, | :50:19. | :50:21. | |
just how much do Betty and Matt disagree? | :50:22. | :50:26. | |
Not so much, is the answer. The under 30s overwhelmingly think | :50:27. | :50:29. | |
that EU citizens already living here should be allowed to stay. | :50:30. | :50:34. | |
And 78% of the over 60s agree. Betty and Matt also agree that EU | :50:35. | :50:37. | |
companies should be able to continue to trade goods and services | :50:38. | :50:39. | |
as they do now. In fact while most under 30s think | :50:40. | :50:42. | |
that British companies should continue to comply with EU | :50:43. | :50:44. | |
regulations more than half of Betty's generation agrees. | :50:45. | :50:55. | |
are we ready as divided as we think? Let's look at the banks of young | :50:56. | :51:03. | |
people. What kind of Britain do you want to live in, a Britain that has | :51:04. | :51:11. | |
fewer migrants, more migrants? I was not old enough to vote in the EU | :51:12. | :51:19. | |
referendum. But my future has been plunged into uncertainty by the | :51:20. | :51:22. | |
older people who voted to leave the EU. I will not have the chance to | :51:23. | :51:27. | |
study abroad if we have to pull out of a Razma. I will not have the | :51:28. | :51:32. | |
chance to have foreign lecturers and I want to live in a country where we | :51:33. | :51:36. | |
can accept these people, except people from other countries and | :51:37. | :51:39. | |
embraced the culture they bring and embrace them as citizens. I think a | :51:40. | :51:49. | |
lot of what is being said amongst young people in the wake of the | :51:50. | :51:54. | |
referendum is scaremongering in terms of Erasmus, immigration and | :51:55. | :51:59. | |
other things. The whole reason, the reason I think a lot of people voted | :52:00. | :52:04. | |
to leave is because they wanted to control, not necessarily because the | :52:05. | :52:07. | |
numbers needed to come down but they needed to be control. People study | :52:08. | :52:11. | |
abroad outside of the EU and you can still do that. So voted to leave | :52:12. | :52:18. | |
amongst the over 60s question this young lady says you're still our | :52:19. | :52:24. | |
future. -- you have stolen our future. I'm not against people | :52:25. | :52:30. | |
coming in from different countries but I just think, I feel our | :52:31. | :52:34. | |
culture, it is the culture, I feel it has changed too much and I'm | :52:35. | :52:39. | |
worried for my granddaughters. Did you granddaughters get a vote? One | :52:40. | :52:46. | |
is just coming up to 19 so she is going to vote. Did you talk to them | :52:47. | :52:52. | |
about voting? Absolutely. What they think? They have own thoughts that I | :52:53. | :52:59. | |
gave them mine as well! And the gentleman just behind, digit Vote | :53:00. | :53:04. | |
Leave? I see Brexit in the town I live in, Hartlepool, 70% leave, I | :53:05. | :53:13. | |
see the town and whole country becoming much more mean-spirited and | :53:14. | :53:18. | |
narrow-minded and like this lady I'm worried about my grandchildren. They | :53:19. | :53:24. | |
go to a school where there are 13 nationalities, asylum seekers, | :53:25. | :53:32. | |
refugees, and their education has been greatly enriched and it is a | :53:33. | :53:38. | |
wonderful school. And if that was to stop then this country would be | :53:39. | :53:47. | |
poorer for it. That gentleman is saying that having these different | :53:48. | :53:50. | |
nationalities in a classroom is an enriching experience. The young | :53:51. | :53:56. | |
woman behind people who voted Brexit have stolen her future as a kind of | :53:57. | :54:00. | |
of international person. Absolutely not, we're still going to be friends | :54:01. | :54:04. | |
with European countries, we will still have links and friendships | :54:05. | :54:08. | |
with people all around the world. People will still be able to visit | :54:09. | :54:12. | |
and add we will still give out student visas. What we have seen | :54:13. | :54:17. | |
since Brexit I think, all of the fear, all the things that people | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
said were going to happen that were bad have not happened. We have not | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
had Brexit yet. Since the referendum. I think the gentleman | :54:27. | :54:36. | |
says we have not seen anything but people have been -- have become more | :54:37. | :54:44. | |
) scared of different people. I never experienced racism before | :54:45. | :54:48. | |
Brexit but I have since. Apart from these other logistical things it has | :54:49. | :54:53. | |
created a narrower society. Do you think that all, that older people | :54:54. | :54:59. | |
have stolen your future in the sense that they made a decision about your | :55:00. | :55:03. | |
future and not their future? I do not want to blame all of people but | :55:04. | :55:08. | |
I feel some of them have done that. I will not have free movement, not | :55:09. | :55:14. | |
be able to travel abroad if I want to, so many things. I think that our | :55:15. | :55:18. | |
culture is enriched by migration. I'm a descendant of an Irish | :55:19. | :55:23. | |
immigrant and I have given a lot to this country. Things like public | :55:24. | :55:28. | |
services are built on migration, 40% of NHS nurses are EU immigrants. We | :55:29. | :55:36. | |
need free movement. Dominic Bradley, can you look these people under 30 | :55:37. | :55:42. | |
in the eye and said that if we do not get the deal we want it will be | :55:43. | :55:49. | |
OK if we cut herself loose? I understand the nerves of young | :55:50. | :55:51. | |
people but there are also opportunities here and we are | :55:52. | :55:55. | |
fighting for a successful Brexit. Let me finish the argument. My | :55:56. | :56:02. | |
vision is an optimistic vision, Britain as a self-governing | :56:03. | :56:07. | |
democracy, strong relationships with European friends but also a global | :56:08. | :56:12. | |
horizon. That is important because the jobs of the future will come | :56:13. | :56:17. | |
from trading with emerging economies and free trade is also a great way | :56:18. | :56:29. | |
to bring down prices. Blaming older people for the Brexit result, a | :56:30. | :56:33. | |
massive proportion of young voters did not bother to turn out. And a | :56:34. | :56:39. | |
lot of the older people who voted Brexit with the same ones that voted | :56:40. | :56:42. | |
to join the EU and the first place and they have seen the progression | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
of the political union. A key point is that a lot of people, young | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
people, did not turn out. Would that have made a difference if they had | :56:53. | :56:57. | |
turned out? No and it is not right to see -- to say there was a low | :56:58. | :57:01. | |
turnout amongst young people at the Brexit referendum. In the Brexit | :57:02. | :57:08. | |
referendum we had a higher turnout amongst younger people than | :57:09. | :57:14. | |
previously. 60% as opposed to 50% in general elections. The question now | :57:15. | :57:19. | |
is if they're going to turn out to vote in this coming general | :57:20. | :57:22. | |
election. There has been hired registration in the coming weeks. -- | :57:23. | :57:34. | |
higher. I voted remain and I voted remain because I agree that we may | :57:35. | :57:42. | |
be are stealing the future from youngsters. I also remain the cover | :57:43. | :57:47. | |
believe we may now be facing a crash in the economy. -- also voted | :57:48. | :57:54. | |
remain. It could well happen. So it is right to remain. I voted remain | :57:55. | :58:02. | |
but I understand the reasons of those who voted for Brexit. One is | :58:03. | :58:08. | |
cultural, and that was mentioned just over there. I think it is | :58:09. | :58:13. | |
important for anyone coming to this country or for those of us who are | :58:14. | :58:16. | |
British going elsewhere, to go into whichever environment we are in and | :58:17. | :58:23. | |
learn and absorbs the culture and be part of that environment. I | :58:24. | :58:27. | |
understand why they did that, I think it is important to integrate | :58:28. | :58:31. | |
people properly. I'd also those who voted for Brexit because they were | :58:32. | :58:34. | |
afraid for their jobs, being taken by people coming into the country, | :58:35. | :58:38. | |
we have to go back to the changing world that we have. When we spoke | :58:39. | :58:46. | |
earlier about going to university, you must go and study the right | :58:47. | :58:50. | |
things, have the right skills. The world is changing in terms of work | :58:51. | :58:55. | |
so what is important is that schools, education, it is | :58:56. | :59:01. | |
appropriate. We have not heard from the Liberal Democrats. Just how hard | :59:02. | :59:07. | |
are you prepared to stand up against a hard Brexit? Very hard. You began | :59:08. | :59:12. | |
to see the Leave campaign evaporate on the morning of the 24th of June. | :59:13. | :59:18. | |
The ?350 million pledge. We believe those who started the process should | :59:19. | :59:22. | |
be given the final say on the deal, the British people. If there is any | :59:23. | :59:30. | |
deal. It is astonishing to hear the rhetoric from Dominic, this is the | :59:31. | :59:34. | |
opportunity stuff when he has no comfort for the many millions of | :59:35. | :59:39. | |
citizens from the EU used as bargaining chips in this country. | :59:40. | :59:44. | |
Another show of hands, who is feeling optimistic about their | :59:45. | :59:47. | |
future in the UK? If you're listening on the radio, just a | :59:48. | :59:55. | |
handful of hands on either side. Anyone want to quickly tell us why | :59:56. | :00:05. | |
they feel optimistic? I think we have a great opportunity now, an | :00:06. | :00:09. | |
opportunity to speak to other countries which we did not have the | :00:10. | :00:13. | |
chance to before. America is reaching out to us, we have plenty | :00:14. | :00:17. | |
of other countries outside the EU who want to make deals with us. They | :00:18. | :00:22. | |
want to talk with us and our negotiations and trade deals. It is | :00:23. | :00:25. | |
all there regardless of what happens with the EU. I feel optimistic | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
because the polls are closing, there's a chance we might elect a | :00:32. | :00:36. | |
compassionate and real human being as a leader. If we can bring in | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
Jeremy Corbyn, we will create a revolution and hope for the future. | :00:42. | :00:54. | |
We are in charge of our own borders. Infrastructure cannot cope with open | :00:55. | :01:06. | |
borders. It cannot. We're running out of time. Lady behind you. I | :01:07. | :01:13. | |
think that was a mainly Tory press headline. Very quickly on the front | :01:14. | :01:22. | |
row. I'm optimistic because the thing I know about the British, we | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
have this ability to see an opportunity in any situation. | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
That is all we have time for, from Newcastle, thank you to our | :01:33. | :01:40. | |
audience, whatever age you are, and to the politicians as well. That is | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
it from the generation gap, just eight days to go until that | :01:45. | :01:57. | |
all-important vote. From Newsnight and Newsbeat, good night. | :01:58. | :02:06. | |
Hello, cooler, clear and night for many of us overnight leading to a | :02:07. | :02:27. | |
bright and sunny start on Wednesday, more clout across southern England | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
and into Wales, that will tend to break up some | :02:32. | :02:32. |