02/06/2017 Newsnight

Theresa May faces questions from public sector workers.

My question to you is, why do you care less

about the children than the Labour government?

I don't care less about the children.

We'll talk to Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson.

Jeremy Corbyn faces questions on nuclear weapons.

Would you allow North Korea or some idiot in Iran

to bomb us and then say, oh, we'd better start talking?!

No, of course not, of course I would not do that.

We'll ask our panel if they think Mr Corbyn can win.

The Conservative candidate in Thanet faces criminal charges

How will this affect the race there?

I wouldn't have thought it'd make any difference.

Because I think they're all Ukip down this way.

And, Stephen Smith drives his bus where most

How many of these battle buses have you seen so far?

If you've sat through an hour and a half

of the Leaders' Debate and you're joining us now,

If you've missed the whole thing up until this moment, fear not -

we're live in York in the Spin Room, and will be talking to Boris Johnson

You will get a full taste of it here.

This was the last major set TV piece of the election,

and it fell to the public to ask the questions.

Theresa May faced questions about public services,

Brexit, and her recent tendency to backtrack.

Jeremy Corbyn was pressed by the public once again on Trident,

his commitment to the red button and his attitude towards the IRA.

It's hard to talk about winners and losers when the two never

But let's go live to Nick Watt, who was watching the debate

He can tell us what happened. What was your sense, Nick? Well, in these

debates you are looking for easing a moment, the moment of the US

presidential election when Ronald Reagan turned to Jimmy Carter and

said, there you go again. This was not a head-to-head, and you didn't

have a big moment like that. But what you did have was awkward

moments for both leaders. For Jeremy Corbyn, his difficult moment came

when he was asked about the Trident nuclear deterrent. He made clear he

has changed his position from 2015 when he said that he would never use

it. He said he would not authorise a first strike. But he could not bring

himself to say that he would actually authorised it in those

circumstances. A member of the audience said, surely it is better

to have it there and not use it than to not have it. Jeremy Corbyn would

not answer that question. For the Prime Minister there was a difficult

moment when she appeared not to know that they had been recent reports

that the UK has given aid money to North Korea. A more versatile Prime

Minister would have said, we give money to people in need, we don't

give it to regimes. Nick, who was your sense, I know you have

clarified that they didn't actually meet, but was there in winner from

tonight? Well, Theresa May entered this performance having struggled in

this campaign. Jeremy Corbyn came to York tonight having had a very good

few weeks. I would say, against that background, the Prime Minister

performed considerably above expectations. There was a difficult

moment for Jeremy Corbyn when he was asked, would he specifically condemn

IRA terrorism? He couldn't do that and he said that he condemned all

acts of terrorism. But there was one interesting unifying theme. Both

leaders came under questions in their core areas and absolutely

stuck to their positions. For Theresa May, there was a difficult

emotional moment when a nurse said to her, why is it right I have only

had a 1% pay rise, which is basically a pay cut? The Prime

Minister said, there is no magic money tree, we have difficult public

finances. Jeremy Corbyn faced difficult questions from a micro

businessman who employs just five people. Why should I face an

increase in Corporation Tax. Jeremy Corbyn said, I'm sure you'll

understand we need money for public services. The mood in the two camps,

the Corbyn camp very happy saying the Labour leader got across his

core message, the big message he got across with that Theresa May would

not debate with him. But I have seen some glum cabinet ministers this

week. But this evening I'm seeing some Borre happy Cabinet ministers.

One said to me, that was a slam dunk win for Theresa May. This was the

last debate and it will define the last few days. Our policy editor

Chris Cook has been taking a look at this debate. Here is his report.

Tonight is the final event in this debate series... May

versus Corbyn. Well, not really. It was May and then Corbyn. The Prime

Minister insisted that they appear separately. And you can see some of

her logic. She used the opportunity to kick lumps out of her opponents

when they couldn't retort. You have Diane Abbott who can't add up

sitting around the Cabinet table. John McDonnell, who is a Marxist.

Nicola Sturgeon, who wants to break our country up. And Tim Farron who

wants to bring us back into the EU, the direct opposite of what the

British people want. The audience though gave her a pretty rough time.

Refusing to answer people's questions, refusing to talk to

Jeremy Corbyn. A Prime Minister and potential future Prime Minister

doesn't understand the difference between a learning disability and

the mental health condition. I had called an election... For the good

of the Conservative Party, you have called a general election for the

good of the Conservative Party and it will backfire on you. Including

an Brexit. Do you really think you have any real leveraged with

Brussels? An area where she has a rather well drilled response. I

think we can negotiate a good deal, because a good deal in trade terms

is not just of benefit to the UK, it is of benefit to businesses in the

remaining countries in the European Union. Social care was where Mrs May

had her weakest section. She pretended there hadn't been a U-turn

involved in announcing a cap on social care costs. I heard the

scaremongering that came out after our manifesto was published. And I

set out one of the details, the aspects that would have been in the

consultation, which is about having a cap on the absolute level. There

is a flaw of ?100,000, you can protect 100000 and we will consult

on watch and by the cap. This killer question was one she could not give

a meaningful answer. You can tell us what the floor is now. Why can't you

tell us the cap? APPLAUSE

There was a run of concerns about austerity too, including mental

health, schools bending and public sector pay. I've been working as a

nurse for 26 years. Do the Tories expect our support in light of the

1% pay increase? That is where Mr Corbyn was most comfortable, making

a clear defence of a bigger state. We are asking the very biggest

corporations to pay a bit more. But I'll cull you what, I think it's

worth it. It's worth it so that any young person can go to university

and not leave with debt, to make sure that school head teachers do

not have to collect at the school gate in order to pay the teachers'

salaries. Mr Corbyn, who started out pretty relaxed, lost his ribbon

after being pressed several times on whether he would use our nuclear

deterrent if we were attacked. The reality is that we have to obviously

try to protect ourselves. We would not use it as first use. And, if we

did use it, millions are going to die. You have to think this drink

through. APPLAUSE

-- you have to think this thing through. Would you use it as second

use, or would you allow North Korea or some idiot in Iran to bomb us and

then say, oh, we'd better start talking. You'd be too late! He was

also pressed on his 1980s contact with Irish republicans. There has to

be a coming together at some point. You were talking to them, they were

killing women and children and you were talking to them. There has to

be... Well, I was talking to representatives of the republican

movement, yes. Actually, so was the Government at the same time. So this

debate can tell us a lot we didn't know. These two politicians have

vulnerabilities. But by now, that's hardly a surprise. That was Chris

Cook. Joining me now from York,

Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson. Foreign Secretary, thank you for

joining us. We're used to hearing strong

and stable from Theresa May. Well, I think... She spoke for

herself. She gave a commanding performance, and it came across

very, very clearly that she's in well Min Lee the best candidate to

be Prime Minister on Friday of next week -- overwhelmingly. Strong and

stable was how she wanted to be seen. She emanated both virtues. Her

answers were clear, they were concise. She got through a lot of

them. Yes, she had some tough questioning, but I think when you

contrast Jeremy Corbyn's performance and his... The difficulty he had

with some pretty elementary questions about the defence of this

country, about the Brexit negotiations... Let's talk about

her. The audience didn't see strong and stable tonight, did they? They

said she wobbled and backtracked, her so will their words, not mine.

On social care, she still hasn't been able to admit that it was a

U-turn. She talks about wanting to be honest but you can't admit that

the cap on social care was something she thinks has now got wrong and she

changed her mind. That's not strong and stable at all. On the contrary,

I think she gave a very full answer to the whole question of social

care, and she spelt out once again this is to stop people having to go

through the agony of selling their homes to pay the care whilst they

are alive whilst raising the threshold to ?100,000 so that you

can pass on when you die. Yes, we are going to consult on the cap.

There are difficulties with the cap being regressive, as she explained

very clearly. I think the audience got that, and it was actually a

useful exchange. But when you came to Jeremy Corbyn on the defence of

our country. I mean, we've invested ?31 billion in the Trident... We

will be talking about Labour, Jeremy Corbyn and Trident, I assure you...

But we are talking about the Conservatives' message tonight,

which is her message is about hard-working families, Foreign

Secretary, that is something we have heard all the way through. She wants

to talk to hard-working families. We heard tonight in the and say to her

that she is earning the same money that she was in 2009. Theresa May

said, there no magic money tree. That's pretty condescending, isn't

it, for somebody who has seen 14% less money in real terms, that's

what she said tonight. No, what you pointed out, we have already spent

half ?1 trillion on the NHS. She was talking to a nurse who hasn't seen

her salary go up in real terms since 2009. I understand, nobody minimises

the difficulties that are facing. As Theresa May is just said, we have to

be prudent public expenditure. It is the cause of that that we can put ?8

billion into the NHS to continue to improve that great service -- it is

because of that. You can only do that if you have a strong economy. I

know you don't want me to talk about the policies of the Labour Party...

When -- if I can... To condescend to a guy who was running a small

business and want to whack up his taxes with no understanding of the

damage that does to the productivity of the UK economy, the ability of

our economy to generate the tax revenue that we need to pay for the

NHS and other public services. You can confirm what Michael Fallon told

the Telegraph, there will be no increase in in contact under this

Conservative parliament if you win. Is that correct -- in income tax. We

have already taken 4 million of the lowest paid out of tax. No increase

in income tax, is that what you will pledge? We will bear down on

taxation, we have no plans to raise income tax. Note signs for the high

earners, you have just talk to me about being prudent and having to

make choices and not paying in nurse more than 1%, so there will be no

increase in income tax, even for high earners, write? Our plans are

to cut taxes. Flavour's plans are to put them up. And to keep putting

them up -- Labour's plans. Funding unnecessary things such as

renationalising the utilities on the railways. And necessary things like

a nurse's wagers. A colossal expense. It's by having a strong

economy, by believing in this country and getting the right Brexit

deal above all that we will have the revenues, we will have the tax

revenues we need to pay for great public services. Let's get onto

foreign affairs. It's lovely to have the Foreign Secretary here. In the

last 24 hours, Donald Trump has walked away from the most

significant global deal to save the planet. And the best we have heard

from Theresa May is that it is disappointing. That sounds like what

you'd say when a souffle doesn't make it!

Everyone remembers that Bill Clinton, who was much loved by the

liberal left and all the rest of it, did not ratify the Kyoto protocol,

and yet America has met its obligations there. Let's see what

Donald Trump does before we waive our finger at him and accused him of

things. I think it would be better, as I said to Rex Tillerson and all

our counterparts across Government in America, that it would have been

much better to go with the original thing. But it didn't work. He made a

clear commitment to his electorate before the American election that he

would do just this. And the best special relationship can say is

disappointing. We can work to reduce CO2. Huge steps have been

accomplished at on both sides of the Atlantic to do this. We have reduced

it and so have the Americans. Fried didn't Britain partake in the joint

letter? As you heard the Prime Minister say very well, she doesn't

have to tag along with a bunch of other signatories. Tag along? So we

are tagging along now, is it? She was talking to the Americans in a

way that those other leaders won't. She made her view clear. We are

going to work with the Americans nonetheless to continue to tackle

climate change, which is the right thing to do. You did mean the office

of Foreign Secretary. People are starting to talk about whether you

will keep your job after the election, and when you talk about

tagging along with foreign leaders, it just demeans your office. I

simply fail to understand what you're saying. It is completely

right of the Prime Minister to ring up the American president to express

the position of the British Government in terms that I think

were loud and clear. Our job, unlike Jeremy Corbyn, the most

anti-American leader of the Labour Party I can remember, we have

considerable ability to help the Americans. Do you think people who

criticise Donald Trump are just whingeing? I will give some

examples, if I may. One of them is obviously over the air run deal,

which Jeremy Corbyn alluded to several times. Britain has worked

with the Americans so they haven't scrapped the Iran nuclear deal,

which had been a risk. We are working with them on their policy

for the Middle East peace process, where Donald Trump has shown great

interest. If you look at the actions of America in Syria, their treatment

of Russia, they are far more proactive now in dealing with the

atrocities being committed by Assad. And that is very much, I believe,

thanks to the intercessions of the UK Government and a powerful

relationship that has been developed between us. Theresa May did not back

you at the time. We haven't had any such requests, and all I can say is

that on the two occasions when the Americans have taken action, I think

they had a material impact on the calculations of the Russians and of

the Assad regime. Do you think you will be in a job next week? That is

something that the Obama administration absolutely failed to

do, and I think part of that success is thanks to UK diplomacy. As for

your questions about the job that I may have. I want, if at all

possible, to be the MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip. Equally important

is that we get the right person leading our Brexit negotiations, and

tonight, it was absolutely clear to me that there is only one person who

can conceivably do this, the division and firmness of purpose,

and that is Theresa May. Thank you very much. I don't agree with -- I

don't disagree with the analysis that this was a heavy victory for

her tonight. Thanks for your time. Following Theresa May came Jeremy

Corbyn. He faced questions from the audience, from the hosts, David

Dimbleby. We are joined by Ian Lavery, Labour's national elections

and campaign coordinator. He can miraculously join us where you might

have seen Boris Johnson a few seconds ago. A lot of this, as you

heard from the Foreign Secretary and the audience tonight, came down to

that one question - security. Everything to Jeremy Corbyn tonight

centred on whether the public and the audience trust him with the

nation's security. I think Jeremy answered very sincerely and honestly

tonight, as always. I thought it was a tremendous performance. He stood

there, took the questions, answered every single one, unlike Theresa

May, who has had a disastrous campaign. And what you have just

seen there before is a job interview by Boris Johnson, very intriguing

stuff. Jeremy Corbyn performed exceptionally well tonight. The

trouble is, though, the same questions have plagued him right the

way through this campaign, and it wasn't from journalists tonight,

from the BBC and the media, but from members of the public, and it

suggests that there is baggage that surrounds him, questions about his

relationship to terrorism, to the IRA, to nuclear weapons. You can't

get past that, can you? Jeremy Bowen sub that fully tonight. He said, for

example, that for many years, the only way to ensure that we have

resolutions to conflicts across the globe would be to have constructive

dialogue, discussions. At times, it's not very favourable. At times,

you might have to speak to people who you really don't want to. And

Jeremy explained that. With regard to the IRA, he explained that he

spoke to people from across the piece, nationalists and unionists.

Look at the solution we've got, we got the Good Friday agreement,

peace, and that is because Jeremy and his like think it is right to

consult with people across the piece. Jeremy Corbyn didn't take

part in the peace process. He didn't call the IRA terrorists. He could

have shut that down, and he could have said what he would do with the

nuclear button and a second response. He didn't. I'm not

suggesting for one minute that Jeremy Corbyn took part in any

discussions. What he did say was that at the time when he was

discussing with all parts of the community in Northern Ireland, that

the Government were doing that at the same time, Margaret Thatcher's

Government, which was interesting. They were right at the time, because

what we want to see what we have now is a peaceful solution to the

situation in Northern Ireland. Surely, that is what we all want.

Would you accept that until Jeremy Corbyn can make those sorts of

questions go away from members of the public that were facing into

night, from people watching at home and thinking the same thing is, that

he cannot be trusted with the nation's security? Jeremy Corbyn be

trusted with national security. That isn't in any doubt, and he explained

that tonight, very clearly, that he takes the national security of this

country extremely seriously. One of the differences between Jeremy and

the Conservatives is that Jeremy believes in preventing further

conflict, in discussion and negotiation with countries across

the globe. He doesn't want to wait until the final seconds to run and

press a button that perhaps could incinerate millions of human beings.

I think that's sensible and I think that's what people want - dialogue,

discussion, honesty, sincerity, agreement that this will never, ever

happen. We don't want people running towards the button and trying to get

there before each other to kill off the human race. It's absurd. Ian

Lavery, thank you very much indeed. Meanwhile, at the end of what has

probably felt like a long week for Theresa May,

we heard that a Conservative candidate is facing charges over his

2015 general election expenses. Craig Mackinlay says

he's done nothing wrong, and will continue to fight to be

re-elected next week with The Crown Prosecution Service says

it's charged Mr Mackinlay, who defeated Nigel Farage

in South Thanet in one of the constituency battles

of the night, with offences under the Representation

of the People Act. David Grossman has

been to South Thanet, Is this battlebus full

of Conservative activists visiting South Thanet in the 2015 general

election part of national It might seem like a dull question,

but the two are treated differently, Knowingly failing to declare

election spending correctly The then-victorious candidate,

Craig Mackinlay, has been charged with two offences relating

to election spending Also charged are his election

agent, Nathan Gray, and a party organiser,

Marion Little. Back in 2015, this was the front

line of the Conservatives' It was such a Ukip-supporting area

that Nigel Farage had chosen it The Tories thought if they could

beat him here, well, they could hold back the tide

of Ukip nationally. The defeated Ukip candidate in 2015

was out campaigning in Clacton today, chatting to journalists,

when an aide starts trying Right, that's big

news, OK, thank you. Well, effectively what it means

in that constituency is that, whilst his name will stay

on the ballot paper, I think the chances of people voting

for him are now very slim, so I think that constituency will be

a straight fight now between Ukip and the Labour Party,

and I will be there tomorrow afternoon giving a speech at 5pm

to support our candidate. And what do you think it means more

broadly in the context of seven days Well, once again it's bad

judgment from Theresa May. But why on Earth would you allow

someone to go ahead as a general election candidate when this cloud

was clearly hanging over him? In a statement today,

Mr Mackinlay said... On election night 2015,

I was staying at this hotel in Ramsgate, ready to cover

the count the next morning, when who should I bump into,

also staying here, but a very senior party worker from

Conservative Central Office. Just keeping an eye on things,

was the casual reply. It turned out that a whole team

of Conservative Party workers had been staying here and at another

hotel off and on throughout They racked up hotel bills

of thousands of pounds, But should the money have

been declared as local If so, it would have

taken his spending well South Thanet was the last

remaining open investigation Last month, the CPS decided

against charging more than a dozen other candidates

over similar allegations. In a statement today,

the Conservative Party said they were confident that

Mr Mackinlay would be cleared, meanwhile criticising

what they called fragmented, Well, the Conservative Party

continues to believe that these Craig Mackinlay is innocent

until proven guilty, Mr Mackinlay, along with Nathan Gray

and Marion Little, will appear We return to the issue of climate

change. So, in the absence of America,

it was China and Europe who came together and pledged to unite

to save the planet - a sight few would have

predicted five years ago. Preisdent Trump announced his

withdrawal on Thursday, saying he believed that

to participate in the pact would be to undermine the US economy,

wipe out jobs, and put his country Is that how the rest

of the world sees it? Joining me now is Todd Stern,

former advisor on Climate Change to President Obama,

who was the United State's Chief Negotiator on the 2015

Paris Climate Agreement. Thanks very much, Emily, it's a

pleasure to be here. Look, I think this is a terrible decision. It's

bad for the United States in all sorts of ways. It's bad for the

world and battle climate change. It's also a big diplomatic hit by

the United States. In diplomacy, a country's reputation and standing

and credibility matter above all. What the rest of the world is going

to see here is that the United States has given them a slap in the

face. The drug administration, President Trump, has given -- the

Trump administration. It took years of work to get this deal gone. It is

a balanced, fair and universal agreement, the first time a real,

durable, effective climate agreement has been established after all these

years of trying. I see no legitimate case for having pulled out. It's

going to be quite damaging for the US. Boris Johnson a moment ago said

that Bill Clinton never ratified Kyodo. Is that an equitable

arrangement? -- Kyodo. I did hear that, and there is no legitimate

comparison there. There is not a question of whether Bill Clinton,

who I worked for, by the way, ratified the agreement. The

agreement had a structure and a formation that had in reality no

chance of getting ratified in the US Senate, that was too bad, we wanted

it to happen but it just wasn't going to happen and it wasn't

because President Clinton didn't try. Do you think China is taking

the place of America? Is it emerging as the saviour of the planet? Well,

I don't think China is the saviour of the planet but I will say that

I'm glad that China is making clear that they intend to stay in the

agreement and to continue with their pledges. That's important. Obviously

the US and China together, the work that we did together, the diplomacy

was enormously important to getting the agreement done. And it's a good

thing that China wants to stay in. It's going to be also I think

enormously important that Europe, including the UK, step up and play a

leadership role. And many other countries around the world. So I

wouldn't at all look at China as a saviour, that would be a real

mistake. But China is an important player. There are many other

important players. China, as the world's largest emitter at this

point by far, obviously has a responsibility, and I'm glad to hear

that President Xi Jinping seems to be saying that they intend to meet

that responsibility. Todd Stern, thank you very much for joining us.

Back to the election now, and our regular Friday panel.

Paul Mason - Corbyn supporter and journalist.

And Polly Mackenzie - former advisor to Nick Clegg.

Very nice to see you all. A quick run through, who do you think one

that debate? Where their winners and losers for you, Paul? I'm going to

say this, you have been very good at not being to tribal up to this

point! I have great hopes for honesty... I think what was wrong

with that debate is that at this stage in the game we need expert

people quizzing both sides. Hugh won was the politicians because they

were not expertly quizzed. Neither of them was pushed to the limits of

where their positions are because the audience... I think they were

coming from an emotional position, which is where many voters come

from. On things like nuclear, tonight this is the issue that

Labour spin doctors want to avoid, I want to hit it head-on. The position

is clear. No first use is incredibly new and innovative for the British

nuclear military establishment, and yet nobody in the audience seemed to

pick it up. I'm concerned that the quality of democracy we are going to

get at the end of this election is one where, you know, two completely

different politicians have really fail to be quizzed expertly in the

weight that... That is very brave, saying the audience asked the wrong

questions. When they are quizzed expertly, Corbyn supporters go on

Twitter and troll them and call them Zionists asking hard questions.

Obviously is wrong. But the point I'm trying to make is that we need

to know now, what is the cap? It was said again and again, what is the

cap on how much savings you lose from the dementia tax? We don't

know. Polly, let me come to you. What did you feel? This was about

the warmth at an audience has for whoever is on the stage, Hugh won

that? I think Theresa May was better than she has been. She has had a

wobble for the last ten days, but it feels like she's back on track, as

good as she could be. You do have to have different phases. Andrew Neil

taking people to pieces, but also people who can relate to human

beings. Both of them were better than you would have expected on

that. Politicians get found out when they are asked questions by real

people, I see that every day on my radio show. It is the real voters,

when they ask questions, politicians are sometimes like goldfish. We saw

that tonight with Jeremy Corbyn. This was an important event, it had

the highest audience of any interview programme so far, and I'm

afraid, Paul, that Jeremy Corbyn was found out tonight. His remarks on

terrorism, he could not bring himself to condemn the IRA. He

condemned them. No, he didn't. On nuclear defence... This man is not

fit... I don't want to rerun the debate. What I do want to say is, at

the end of the week when we have seen an extraordinary diversity of

polls in the way that we have and the two years or whatever, where

would you put your number is now? If I come to you for maps, and I know

you do this anyway as a hobby, you are going for a Tory majority, still

worse plot yes, I am. Theresa May has had a bad week, let nobody

denies that. Tonight she came out fighting. Any floating voter who

watched that will have been more impressed by Theresa May than they

thought they would be. In terms of numbers, at the start of this

campaign I predicted a Tory majority of 74. Then I went through all of

the constituencies on the basis of the opinion poll lead, I came out

with a majority of 130, that has role so much rolled back, it will

not be that high. But I still expect a landslide. About 100? 80 to 100. I

think Iain is better as a detailed numbers, but the Tories will win

this. 50, 75, whatever it is. What is depressing for me is that neither

Theresa May more Jeremy Corbyn were particularly strong. They both have

big areas of weakness. Stronger than Tim Farron! Nick Clegg is worried

about his seat tonight, is that right? People said that Sheffield

Hallam was going to be lost, but Nick won with a substantial

majority. Is it conceivable that the Lib Dems could go back with this

time? At elections, anything is conceivable. People pledged to eat

their hats and look like idiots, or run down the street naked! Of

course, anything is plausible. Like my promise in 2010! All that I can

do is leave the range of polls, the maximum that Theresa May is going to

get is ten extra seats, I would have thought. Seriously?! I hope there is

money on this afterwards! Paul, in Corbyn HQ, can I just ask you, are

they preparing for the possibility of it hung parliament or a wind.

They are preparing for a possibility of a hung parliament or a win.

People were talking about the Northern Irish, Welsh and Scottish

governments on Brexit. They were not at the beginning of this, write?

Absolutely not. Go back and look at the polls. The Rangers from a small

Tory majority through to a hung parliament through to a minority...

They are ahead, aren't they? I spent the whole of the 2050 election

campaign preparing for it hung parliament. Wishing it is going to

happen doesn't actually make it happen! You are believing the polls

that you want to believe, not the majority. Labour very concerned

about the turnout. On a high turnout of young people... And you have to

get young people out, young people to put their money where their mouth

is. If they don't vote Labour, it is ?9,000 on your university fees from

September. He is also saying that students who have already gone

through the University going to have their money refunded, this is

fantasy politics. This feels like a personality race. The more people

have seen of Jeremy Corbyn, it seems the more they have warmed to him.

The more they have seen of Theresa May the less they have want to hurt.

I generally believe tonight was a turning point -- the less they have

warmed to her. I think you should apologise to what you said, the

Trump playbook. Your side is calling my Vida terrorist. We have

questioned... -- might lead a terrorist. Would you like to

apologise for that? It is out of the Trump playbook. He is terrified of

debating. It is legitimate to ask, where is she? You questioned her

health, you should be ashamed of yourself. Do you think any of this

cuts through? Some of it does. Reinforcing what we heard earlier,

they all still feel the same. The policies are incredibly diverging in

this election in the way that they haven't been recently. But you still

get the sense that all of the politicians are kind of mediocre.

Who do you think has played dirty? On, everybody. Do you? The future of

the country is at stake. The other side is actually saying that Labour

and the millions of people who support it or in some ways tainted

by terrorism... Absolutely. Jeremy Corbyn has supported the IRA. You

are digging the grave of consensus politics in this country. Labour

supports the rule of law, anti-terrorist... I'm so sorry, we

need to get to Steve Smith, he is on his bus. We need to go on.

Finally... We will come back to Diane Abbott next week.

Imagine the scene: A snap election is called, the Newsnight office

From this creative huddle, a germ - in fact, lots of germs,

A vision of red: A bus, a battle bus, with Stephen Smith on board,

visiting constituencies that have been craving some election glamour -

Tonight we bring you the last excursion.

Welcome to our popular and acclaimed general election

And if you can see this, it means we've had a second

Let me refresh your memory about our high-quality format.

We're attempting to sprinkle some election razzmatazz on the places

Too rock-solid for them to rock up to in their wheels.

We've come to the great city of Liverpool on our magical mystery

tour, to another constituency that doesn't tend to see a lot in the way

Liverpool's Fab Four constituencies are considered to be among

We're in Walton, where the party romped home at the last election

This constituency is so red that the Conservative candidate

Walton's only a few square miles in size -

all too easy for our charabanc to stray across the

Looks like this bus is not returning.

So why is it that election fun and games generally pass Walton by?

If only there was a numbers-savvy prodigy to give this vehicle

It's only Newsnight's Chris Cook, the Kitt to our Knight Rider,

Liverpool Walton, it's fair to say, is a 1-party Labour seat.

It's one of only five constituencies in Britain where the second-place

party got no more than 10% of the vote.

If the other parties last time around had been

interested in fighting here, they could each have spent ?12,000

But, in practice, the Conservatives, Ukip and the Liberal Democrats

all together combined spent only ?3000 on their campaign here.

It's really not a seat where the result is in question.

After all these years, some facts in one of my investigative reports.

So, do the folk here feel they've been taken for granted?

Where better to take our bus to meet voters than the colourful bus stops

How are you enjoying the election so far?

How many of these battle buses have you seen so far?

They only come when they really need you, don't they?

It's pretty rock-solid, this seat, isn't it?

If that is the problem, once they know they've got a safe

Do you think it would help if you saw more of the party

I sometimes feel like my MPs aren't always visible

You sound like you take quite an interest in it, is that right?

Because, I mean, it's affecting our future.

We've had such a turbulent year for politics, haven't we,

I hope your real bus comes along soon!

You wait all Newsnight for a bus, and then two come along at once.

Oh, it's one of those natty convertible numbers.

Would you swap your Liverpool tour bus for our Newsnight battlebus?

Newsnight battlebus, come and have a chat about the election!

This is Steven Smith with the number one tour bus in Liverpool.

He is in Bristol with a full programme then.