30/06/2017 Newsnight

A brilliant student in Pakistan is brutally murdered in the name

The mob think he is a blasphemer. This is where he tried to hide from

the mob. They found him here. They kicked him, beat him, hit him with

sticks and shot him. and how British Imams should be

responding. I've therefore decided to step down

as leader of the council. It's ridiculous he thought he could

hang on. It's really great. Kensington and Chelsea

council leader steps down We speak to Jon Ronson,

co writer of Okja, the latest film to confront our

insatiable carnivorous habits. Good evening, first, more on the

controversy over lading and buildings razed by the Grenfell

Tower tragedy. Newsnight discovered crucial details about why so many

about buildings managed to get cladding installed that does not

meet normal safety standards. Chris, what have you found out this

evening. We have to take a step back to

remember how you get cladding signed off by the building inspectors. The

first way is to test all of the parts of the cladding you wish to

put up in a laboratory and check it is basically impossible to set on

fire. The second thing you can do, we have a video showing it, is if

you want to use a bit of material that is a little flammable, is you

can put that material into a furnish arcs effectively, in the

configuration you want to use it to see if it holds up. But there are

other routes, one is a desktop test. You say, you have done a proper fire

test in a laboratory, I want to do something similar to that, so I'll

get an engineer to say what you are proposing is the same as that over

there. What we discovered over the last few weeks is that the desktop

tests are used more widely than anyone respectable or responsible

thought and there are serious problems with the quality. We think

they are widespread. We have managed to get hol of a couple of things

that are secretive. These are documents. We managed to get hold of

two produced by a company. They relate to using combustible

insulation like a Grenfell Tower with aluminium composite panels on

the outside like the Grenfell Tower. They relate to quality like Grenfell

but the same sort of design. The thing about the panels, is that they

behave oddly in a fire. It is two bits of aluminium around the core of

a substance. Some have plastic inside? Some do.

In the fire the aluminium can expose what is on the inside. So in a fire

that is dangerous. So aluminium combustible panels behave in an

unusual way. We have two of the examples and a quote here. It shows

that they say, they believe that the panels, if tested would believe the

same as a test that they conducted with ceramic tiles. They do not

behave in a fire in a similar way to ceramic tiles. The documents are

handed over to a building inspector, and on the basis of them say that

you have done the work, tick. We know that for example, this research

was used in Portsmouth in Unite student accommodation. This is

justifying stuff going on this buildings. We spoke to people who

did not believe that this was being used. But this is how some of this

stuff is on the buildings. What are the implications tonight?

We have to say that the Unite students who own that building in

Portsmouth says it has a large number of fire safety measures, they

were open with us, doing routine fire testing and taking up the

Government's offer much the free testing of the cladding. They were

open with us. Kingspan, they paid for the reports, they make the

insulation, they paid the engineers to produce the reports so that the

insulation is used in the context. And said that they always get this

from the UK's most respected fire inspecting consultancis, and they

are confident that they are not compromised.

But another company, refused to comment throughout on the basis of

client confidentiality. We have some of the reports but they are yet to

respond for comment. Keep going. Thank you, Chris.

The brutal killing in Pakistan of Mashal Kahn exposes deep

divisions in the country, and puts pressure on British Imams

to distance themselves from the country's blasphemy laws,

and the way they are used to legitimise violence.

A brilliant student, Mashal, was brutally murdered by a mob

on a university campus in Pakistan earlier this year after he was

The killing has caused widespread outrage and has even led to calls

to change the country's strict blasphemy laws.

A horrific lynching captured on camera on a university campus.

The mob, though, think he's a blasphemer.

This was Mashal Khan's room, where he tried to hide from the mob.

They kicked him, they beat him, they hit him with sticks

The issue of blasphemy has long divided Pakistani society.

And some hope this case could finally lead to some reform.

But others are deadly opposed to that.

This is the village of Zaida in Pakistan's northern

And it's where his family still live.

Mashal was an outstanding journalism student with an interest

Abdul Wali Khan University is one of Pakistan's newest institutions,

with a student population of over 12,000.

It is just an hour's drive away from Mashal's village.

The campus has been closed since Mashal's murder.

Over there, that building is the Department of Journalism

Over there is the hostel that he lived in and it is where he died.

This is him alongside Abdullah, who had also been

accused of blasphemy, and another journalism student.

Mashal would debate with more conservative students.

He described himself as a Muslim but also as a liberal.

Over time, debates turned to threats.

He used to discuss with religious fanatics.

He knew that but he used to discuss these things.

He was accused of being an atheist agnostic.

Blasphemy allegations are often used in Pakistan as a way

Mashal's father believes this video of him criticising alleged

corruption in the university a few days before his death led

Police have also collected evidence suggesting student politicians,

jealous of Mashal's influence, wanted him out of the university.

It is hard to know what of that is true.

What we do know is that most of those who took part

in the violence did believe Mashal was a blasphemer.

I think at one time the notion was, that if somebody wanted

to get somebody killed, they will go hire what are known

He will either be killed or forced to leave the country.

The day of the lynching, it seems, began like any other.

Mashal apparently had no idea what was about to happen.

A group of students demanded to see the lecturers,

accusing Mashal and two of his friends of having

As the mob continued to grow, Mashal was frantically

"They are falsely saying I insulted the Prophet".

His friend replies, "Mashal, where are you?"

Then the mob made their way to Mashal's hostel.

There, they found him hiding in his room on the second floor.

I came here the day after the murders.

Now, over a month, and nothing has changed.

These are the bloodstains where it seems the authorities think

that Mashal was lined up against the wall and shot.

At least two eyewitnesses that I have spoken to say that

after he was shot he was still alive and they tried to carry his body

To try to get him some help because after the shots rang out,

the mob dispersed and they were able to try and rescue him.

But when they got to the bottom of these stairs, the mob had

reassembled and they managed to grab his body back.

From this point, Mashal's last moments are captured

His fellow students beat him as he lay dying.

The videos were instantly shared across Pakistan.

Mashal was eventually dragged outside.

Even long after he was dead, they continued beating his body.

Police were present but were either unable or unwilling to stop them.

Dozens of Mashal's fellow students who appeared in the videos

Some were members of religious student organisations.

I wanted to understand what was behind their brutality.

Wajahat is not accused of having beaten Mashal but of helping incite

the attacks by accusing him of blasphemy in front

We have got hold of a letter written by Wajahat to a number of religious

scholars he is effectively encouraging to support

And in it, he goes into a lot more detail about the alleged blasphemy

He talks about one conversation in particular that he had

with Mashal about Adam and Eve in which Mashal is saying,

why is incest forbidden in Islam if Adam and Eve's children

would have had incestuous relationships with each other

Mashal's killers have their sympathisers.

This was a rally just weeks after the murder,

It was addressed by a number of former MPs, including this man,

a leading local figure in an Islamist party.

Whatever he might, or is alleged to have said, nothing can justify

killing someone, and especially not in that way.

After the death, the family are hosting a memorial.

40 days after Mashal's death, the family are hosting

A rally this large in support of someone accused of blasphemy

Most Pakistanis, religious or not, are sympathetic to Mashal's case,

But none of the political parties are seriously talking

about reforming the blasphemy law because of the resistance

Unlike extremist groups such as the Taliban, the law does have deep

support in many quarters. the law does have deep support

in many quarters. Mashal's family are torn

between hoping that his death could lead to a more open,

tolerant society and worrying alleged failings by the police

and the university could be covered You can see a longer version

of Secunder Kermani's film on Our World on the BBC

News Channel at 9.30pm on Sunday night and,

of course, on the iPlayer. We're joined by Haras Rafiq,

who is the chief executive of the counter-extremism

organisation Quilliam International. What is your reaction to that film

and what happened? I have seen some of this before and this is the tip

of the iceberg, since 1987 thousands of people have been accused of

blasphemy and charged and at least 65 of them have not made it to

court. In the case of accusing someone of blasphemy, has that been

a cover in many ways to attack them? Obviously lynching is not allowed

but has that been a copper because he expressed left-wing views or is

it a straight blasphemy accusation? Will not, if you look at the

blasphemy laws, at some stage you do not need witnesses. At the top end,

the long sentences somebody to death, then you need witnesses and

what we have seen is instances where people have used it to settle scores

but more than that, there has been a deep sanitisation of the normally

very tolerant versions of Islam and people are believing that the law

gives them the opportunity to behave that way. How does that correspond

to attitudes here and what the imams are saying here? This is the most

recent one and there was a case before this were a politician was

actually killed for daring to challenge reform of the blasphemy

law, killed by his bodyguard, who was from the moderate tradition.

Moderate yet Conservative, moderate in every other way when it comes to

Islamist and terrorism but on this issue, very focused on the blasphemy

law and when his killer was sentenced, he was praised, the

killer was praised here in some of the largest mosques in the country.

Are you suggesting that there would be a situation where what happened

to Mashal would be condoned here? It was, the killing of somebody because

they dare to challenge blasphemy laws was condoned and by imams...

Interestingly, some imams will be very vociferous about this but do

you think that people still fear speaking out, even to say that

blasphemy law should be changed? We have been talking about repealing

the blasphemy law in Pakistan because it is not fit for purpose,

it is not Islamic, it was brought there by the British Empire. Why is

it so important for people here to relate to the blasphemy law? If you

look at the last census, nearly 69% of Muslims in this country, from the

Indian Pakistani and Bangladeshi region and the overwhelming majority

come from Pakistan, they control the imams, who have been supporting the

blasphemy law there and the killers still control a lot of mosques in

this country and the largest mosque outside London was actually

supporting the killer of Salman Taseer publicly. What should be

done? You are in organisation trying to stop radicalisation of you

suggest there is no appetite amongst imams to speak out? The problem is

not the appetite, it can be dangerous. If you look at before

Finsbury Park, the last three high-profile killings in this

country were done by other Muslims because you were considered

non-Muslim enough, Glasgow, Rochdale and London. It can be dangerous as

well but above that, there is a tradition, but I come from, where

the majority of Muslims in this country who want everything else are

moderate but on this issue still support the blasphemy law. We have

no idea what the attitude is in the mosque you are talking about but

thank you very much for joining us. It has taken pressure

from Downing Street and nearly two weeks of condemnation but finally

today the leader of Kensington and Chelsea Council has resigned

over the Grenfell Tower tragedy. In a statement, Nicholas Paget-Brown

said he accepted his share of responsibility for the perceived

failings of the authority. The latest of those was his refusal

to let the local residents and the press into a council

meeting last night.... Then, when a court order

overruled his decision, He has faced a barrage of criticism

since the night of the fire, criticism which came from all sides,

not least about the council's chaotic response and his refusal

to admit they could not cope. I have to accept my share of

responsibility for these perceived In particular, my decision to accept

legal advice that I should not compromise the public enquiry

by having an open discussion in public yesterday has itself

become a political story. I therefore decided to step down

as leader of the council. Almost immediately after

Paget-Brown stepped down, the deputy leader of the council

also resigned and, earlier today, Robert Black, the chief executive

of the Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Association, announced

he was stepping aside from his role Pilgrim Tucker is a community

organiser who is working Quite a lot of activity today but

what difference will this make to residents? Hopefully, now that Mr

Paget-Brown has gone and the Deputy Leader has gone, we can replace them

with people who are competent and care about the residents. It is the

case that Sadiq Khan is denied saying that the council should be

set aside and new commissioners should be put in by the government,

would the residents support that? I think trust in the Cabinet has gone,

trust in the console and they were not confident in them years ago.

They were complaining and trying to raise these this year's and the

aftermath has been disastrous, as we can see, and new people need to be

put in place. In terms of on the ground, a council workers augmented

by central government civil servants, how either residents

doing? Westminster is still struggling, there is a lack of

communication, they are unclear about what is happening in the

future to them regarding housing. They are still confused. Are they

all highest? They are in temporary accommodation. -- highest. Hotels?

Yes, but I know there are families in unsuitable accommodation,

children sharing rooms with adults, in one room, and so on. You have

worked with the residents would you talk about the fact that people

actually have not been exercising their rights, is a feeling that in

the past, although you have been pushing for the residents because

they have serious concerns, that there is a feeling that the

authorities seem to know best? Those residents really tried very hard to

exercise their rights and that console, two of those councillors

have stepped down, those councillors did not respond and would not

listen. That is a big problem with democracy and accountability. And

they listened more to the private sector. Do you think there is a

democratic deficit, not least because you do not have the same

system of local papers and so forth to dig stuff out? There is a

democratic deficit, we also have this increasingly powerful private

sector involved in local government. And councillors in this case wanted

to listen to them but I think even in other areas of London, where

councillors are trying to respond to residents, the private sector has

too much power and we need to increase scrutiny and oversight and

I think we need to diminish the role of the private sector in local

government and increase regulation and start to appreciate the

important things that the state and regulation can give us. That is the

vehicle for us to have democracy. You talk about things that can

change and it is often hard to see what good could come out of this

dreadful tragedy but do you think there could be further re-engage

meant in local politics and a different way of doing council

activity? Hopefully people will recognise the importance of our

local governing institutions and the importance of them really being

responsive to the people who have elected those people, councillors,

government, locally and nationally, have a duty of care, they command a

lot of resources on our behalf and it is very important that they are

responsive and this is a terribly horrible example, the build-up to

this went on for years with people trying to get these people to

listen. These people need to step down and the whole council needs to

step down. What is important that the government must start listening

to residents and the public enquiry. Before that, this new deadline for

next week for people to get houses, what are the chances of not being

met and what would happen if it is not met? I think the only thing they

have assured us is more temporary accommodation so I think there are a

lot of promises which are not being met and fluffy statements which are

temporary buffers to keep people happy for now. And the really

important thing is, like the residents have said so very clearly

to politicians, be honest with us, treat us with the intelligence and

respect that we deserve and most important is the public enquiry. Do

not give us false promises, we are intelligent people and we will hold

you accountable. Thank you very much indeed.

The plight of animals bred and either paraded as entertainment

or slaughtered for the delectation of humans has long been fertile

territory for Hollywood, from Charlotte's Web to Babe

But the latest feature film to confront our insatiable

carnivorous habits has been made not for the big screen but by Netflix

for our tablets and iPads, and packs a much more visceral punch.

I will be joined by the director in a moment but first, a club.

Okja is the new film by Korean director Bong Joon-ho and stars

an adorable giant pig-like creature called Okja and her even more

beguiling friend, Mija, who grow up together

But the big, bad American food corporation who created her

I'm joined by the film's co-writer, Jon Ronson.

Good evening. The film starts off very much as a lyrical fairy tale,

incredibly soft, and then you get into a really visceral world where

actually, a lot of dreadful things happen to this wonderful creature or

potentially? Who is a film for? I think it is finding its audience,

people are watching this and loving it, the director, Bong Joon-ho, is

so great that he can do these crazy tonal shifts, sometimes it is like a

children's movie, beguiling, like fable, and then becomes dark and

upsetting and is appealing to all those people although it should not

be watched by young children because it does get incredibly and dark

later on. It does pack a punch. Is it a straightforward campaigning

film or is it more nuanced about human feelings? It is not a

campaigning film, what it is, most of all, I hope, is a beautiful film.

It is enchanting and disturbing and dark and entertaining so I think we

valued aesthetics over ideology. However, it is really dark and it

ends up in a slaughterhouse for magical animals and as a

consequence, a lot of people will become vegetarians! You say this is

not a campaigning film but if you look at a number of other films,

Hollywood movies, the inexorable drive is towards vegetarianism. Is

that what you think is the message of the film? It is not the message

of the film, it is the inevitable consequence. I guess one of the

messages is about cognitive dissonance. We treat ourselves into

believing that the meat that we eat has nothing to do with the pets that

we love but we know that pigs are just as adorable and smart as dogs,

so to eat the meat you need to see inside the slaughterhouse. What is

so amazing about this film is the director has made the scenes inside

the slaughterhouse which most other directors would make grotesque, he

has made it haunting and beautiful. But it is absolutely visceral, we

must not shy away from that. Much more so than any other of these

Hollywood movies. Netflix has made this! What do you make of this? No

one else would have. This is a $50 million movie, half of this is in

Korea and it ends up in incredibly dark places and no studio would have

allowed Bong Joon-ho to do this but Netflix did so and I think it is

giving us freedom and money in a way that Hollywood has rarely done since

the great days of early Martin Scorcese and Woody Allen, Bonnie and

Clyde. This is a golden time. And anyway, this film celebrates direct

action? Yes. We have an animal liberation front in this film but

they are not entirely heroic, they are stupid at times and slapstick.

One character is so determined not to leave our carbon footprint on the

earth but he has given up eating entirely. There are very funny

moments. Yes, so they are not entirely heroic. The bad people in

this film are not entirely bad and the goodies are not entirely good.

Like humans, there are grey areas. Thank you very much.

But before we go, you won't have been able to visit

a great maypole in London unless you were around in 1672.

It was then that the capital's pole was blown away be a storm.

Now a competition is underway to replace it

If anyone is thinking of taking on the challenge -

NEWSREEL: In this festive season, Coronation celebrations are the rage

Here we are at Elstow Green, Bedfordshire, where Phyllis Izzard

drives to her throne to be crowned May Queen while the people

of the village turn out in force to attend this old English pastime

The May Queen of 1935 is crowned by her predecessor from 1934.