05/07/2017 Newsnight

Kim Yong-Un taunts Trump by showing again and again the moment

North Korea launched a missile apparently capable of

While the UN Security Council meets in emergency session,

the US president is right now en route to China.

But does he have any clue what to do about it?

I'l be speaking to one of the few Americans ever to negotiate

Has the election played havoc with Theresa May's

Nick Watt has news we may be looking north.

Westminster is abuzz with talk that the UK should follow

the example of Norway for its immediate

But some Brexiteers see this as a ruse by Remainers

who are turning into Referendum Reversers.

The sexual revolution never envisaged this.

Robots are being programmed to have sex.

Is there anything wrong with that, and if so, exactly what?

We'll be sorting out the politics of robosex.

At the emergency meeting of the UN Security Council tonight

to discuss the response to the threat from North Korea

following the first successful launch of an in intercontinental

If claims are confirmed that the missile is capable

of hitting US territory then the pressure will be on the US

President to make a measured response after he has raised

the rhetoric on North Korea since he entered the White House.

When the missile was fired he tweeted, "Perhaps China will put

the heavy moves on North Korea and end this nonsense

The Chinese President, meeting President Putin

yesterday in Moscow, announced that they want to take

the lead in dealing with this escalation, at the same time

condemning the US for increased military activity in the Pacific,

and the deployment in south Korea of the US missile Defence System.

Kim Jong-Un has ridden the rocket of brinkmanship again.

By testing a missile with a range long enough to hit

parts of the US he has thrown down the gauntlet.

Unbowed by American threats and also resolved a

We assume that North Korea has that capability with its medium-range

systems, because they have been testing those

And of course North Korea has had a number of nuclear tests.

But you are right we will never know for sure whether they have

an operational capability unless they have to use it.

The new missile test lead the US to say that piece on the Korean

peninsula is a choice they could change. And that diplomacy is

running out of steam. -- peace. Their actions are closing off the

possibility of a diplomatic solution. The United States is

prepared to use the full range of our capabilities to defend ourselves

and our allies. Where does that leave camp? Early in January the

president tweeted that Kim's bid to develop something capable of hitting

the US wouldn't happen. He listed China's help. In April he suggested

China could get better trade terms if they solve the North Korean

problem. Late last month but with -- late last month he said at least

China tried. This gave way to anger. He accused them of wrapping up trade

with North Korea rather than squeezing it. When Trump made his

deal perhaps he was not fully aware of the history of US efforts to

elicit better cooperation with China. If he was he probably would

have been more careful in his approach to the Chinese premier. But

we are where we are. The Chinese president today pointed that

Vladimir Putin was his country's closest allies. And in the context

of North Korea that points to a hidden alignment towards America's

threats of force. Russia and China have implications for North Korea.

Especially as it presents an option for North Korea. North Korea is a

client state of China. In some way they legitimise North Korea's

existence. America and South Korea today conducted their own missile

firing drills. A warning to Kim Jong-Un. But also a reminder to

China that the US is not about abandoned its regional partners. But

for all the symbolism it shows the military options of the Pentagon.

Trump is finding, like previous presidents, that we don't have any

capability to stop North Korea from advancing its nuclear missile

programme. Military options are obviously not practical because we

are not capable of knocking out North Korea's missile systems. In

any event, even if we tried, that is likely to lead to a conflict of the

Korean peninsula which the US and US allies and Japan are not prepared to

fight. Given the risks of using force, the Chinese option was

probably worth a try. But Kim Jong-Un continues weapons tests

undaunted, while President Trump formulates new policy, China holds

nearly all the key cards. Bill Richardson - is a former

Democratic governor and has negotiated with North Korea

since the 1990s - he was involved in securing the release of US

student Otto Warmbier. Good evening. How would you rate

this particular moment historically? This is the worst state of tension

in the Korean peninsula since the Korean War. With this capability

that North Korea now has with the Kim Jong-Un acting in defiance. Not

just of the US but the international community. Detailing Americans,

Canadians there, basically sticking his nose up to the international

community. And trying to provoke Donald Trump and the G20 into

basically saying, you guys are meeting at the G20, I'm the main

player in the world today. That is what Kim Jong-Un is saying. If it is

one of the most dangerous moment since the Korean War, is it also a

moment of opportunity? Well, I believe the only way we will get out

of this North Korea drama is through diplomacy. But right now the options

of diplomacy, because of the... There is no room for that type of

diplomacy. The pre-emptive military strike I don't think that right now

is realistic. In between we should look at options of squeezing China

to squeeze North Korea more. I don't think we've done enough. I think

more cyber efforts, more sanctions at the UN, get the international

community, the G20 countries, the new alliance. I think we have a

little time. But not much more. Nicky Healy has talked about the

fact America will propose sanctions. But you have to have China on board.

I just wonder. You talk about pushing China harder, but what never

-- what leverage does Donald Trump have on China? Negative. Doing this

them... Is that for Trump to do? Do we continue arms sales to Taiwan?

And their efforts, you know? China wants to be pre-eminent in East

Asia. Buttress our relations with South Korea, with Japan, commerce

wise, militarily. China has to realise that the turmoil in the

peninsula is not in their interest. But they are unwilling to risk

anything by squeezing North Korea. So we have to put more levers on

China. We need to get our European friends to help us because this

affects the international community, the East Asian peninsula. This may

be something, as a Democrat, you would have a certain answer for, but

isn't part of the real problem the instability, you know, the

flip-flopping Donald Trump undertakes? The goading of China for

not doing enough, the idea he could do it himself, the idea they would

never happen into ballistic missile -- intercontinental ballistic

missile. Donald Trump is playing with fire and not essentially

understanding what he is doing. The fire is caused by Kim Jong-Il and

the North Koreans. As a Democrat, I think Donald Trump has been

relatively restrained. I don't like his tweeting. I don't like him

saying that he wants to meet Kim Jong-Un and that it would be an

honour. I want him to have a coherent policy with his military

advisers, our allies, bring it up at the G20. Try something new. But I

think diplomacy is the only option. There is no sound military option. I

think Kim Jong-Il and wants to provoke the international community.

We shouldn't let him get away with that. We should be united in our

efforts to squeeze him and the key is China. And the key is China.

China has not stepped up. I want to come to the role you've played the

past. The G20 will be a public thing. State to state diplomacy

hasn't shown to be working. Are there back channels that need to be

activated quickly and strongly? Yes. Let's look at new back channels.

Private groups. Perhaps the Vatican. Perhaps China can play a mediating

role by saying Kim Jong-Un, you've got to sit down and talk to the

South Koreans and the Americans. Let's get this new president of

South Korea who is ready to engage with North Korea, and in

humanitarian issues, maybe he can be a channel. But let's try something

new because the traditional China US South Korea in the past, six party

talks, that isn't working. Are you optimistic on a scale from one to

ten? I am about three right now and its dwindling. I'm worried, I'm

really worried. But I think eventually the international

community will develop a strategy. And hopefully Kim Jong-Un will come

to his senses. But I wouldn't count on it right away. I think he is

going to stretch it out. Thanks very much.

We'll tuition fees in England stay or go? Labour wanted to scrap them.

And it looks like the government was listening, following their

disastrous election result. Damian Green stated there should be a

national debate on fees. That's because the ISS has released a

report which says students in England are going to graduate with

an average debt of nearly ?51,000 and will be paying it off well into

their 50s. -- that's because the IFS has released a report.

But University Minister Jo Johnson today insisted they would stay.

The message to the country, that it is absolutely paramount we pay off

the country's debt, we become solvent. Yet your message to

students seems to be, if you get a debt of ?51,000 and it lasts for

many years it doesn't matter. Isn't that a inconsistent message? We have

a world-class education system. Three of the universities here in

the world's top ten. They need to be funded. We need to share the costs

of that funding between the individual student that gets to get

higher earnings, higher earnings than those who don't go to

university, and the high tax payers. You called Jeremy Corbyn a liar when

he said the fees discourage poor students from going to universities.

He said he was a liar. Before poor students had maintenance grants. Now

they don't. Poor students have maintenance loans and they also have

their tuition loans. Student loans. Therefore poorer students come off

worse. I didn't use the word liar. I said he was factually wrong. The

number of students... Maintenance loans... Our finance system is

allowing them to go to university in record numbers. But they don't have

maintenance grants any more, they have maintenance loans. If they get

a well-paid job they are worse off. I don't accept that. The government

has made more financial support. But they are paying more. They have the

cash in hand enable -- they have the cash in hand so they can go to

university. Once they are in a job earning above ?21,000. So they are

not saddled with debt. They don't have too pay until they are earning.

But poorer students have to pay back more and they are worse off than a

lot of other students. And worse off if they get a better job, actually

worse off. There is a different way of putting it. But that's the right

way of putting it. The government is making more resources available for

people from poorer backgrounds. They have the chance to go to university

and they are. This government says it is all about continued learning.

You wanted to have mature student and part-time students. But there

has been a drop mature students of 56% since tuition fees came in.

Exactly the opposite of what you wanted over the last five years.

One of the reasons is so many people are going to university for the

first time when they are younger and not seeking to acquire higher

education later in life. People need to retrain as their jobs change? We

have an exceptionally strong labour market so the appeal of part-time is

at diminishing... Part-time study. When there is a buoyant Lega market,

the cost of going into part-time study is higher than when there are

fewer jobs around. So we have diminishing part-time students? We

have a buoyant labour market so there are lots of part-time jobs for

people to go to. I am not denying there have been lots of barriers to

part-time studying and that is why there is a part-time maintenance

loan for the first time and that will help address some of these

financial problems. But mature students and part-time students tend

to be the poorest so they are proportionately again going to have

more debt even if they are in well-paid jobs? This is about

sharing the cost of how we fund a higher education programme. We have

seen an increase in funding since our reforms. We want that to

continue. You have a situation in the United Kingdom where the debts,

?50,000, ?50,800, double the regular US debt student comes out with. You

cannot be happy about that, double with what they pay in America? We

need a sustainable cost funding university and the individual

student will have a much higher lifetime learning trajectory. It is

a fair system. Are you happy with that? Yes. The OECD, which looks at

these finance systems of higher education around the world have said

we are one of the few countries in the world to have cracked it. You

are happy that the debt burden the student is tries than the American

won? What I am happy with is we have a sustainable finance student system

that allows people to go to university. You are 43% more likely

to go to university if you are from a disadvantaged background today

than you were in 1997. That is why Jeremy Corbyn is wrong to say

working-class students are going to university less than before. It is

factually wrong to say that. If everything is rosy in the garden,

why is the Deputy Prime Minister saying he thinks there could be a

debate about tuition fees in England. He is second in charge to

Theresa May, you are the universities minister and you

disagree with him. It is another example of this government looking

in two directions at once. Damien is right, we need to look at the facts

that exposes Labour's tuition fees. If you read his comments carefully,

he was calling for time to expose the shortcomings of Labour's tuition

fees policies which would lead to university is being unsustainable

and the re-imposition of student number controls, which we have

taken. It would stop more people from disadvantaged backgrounds going

to university. There will be absolutely no change to the system

under this Conservative government? We have a good system, enabling more

people from disadvantaged backgrounds to go to university it

is sustainable the funding universities. It is working and we

wouldn't want to change the fundamental features. We always want

to keep it under review to make sure it is fair and effective. Thank you

very much. Before the election

Theresa May was clear - she wanted a mandate

for her version of Brexit. But the mess that she says

she created with the election result means that she has lost authority

to dictate terms. Now some MPs are pushing

for a different vision of Britain's Two allies bound together

by historic ties. Eight decades after our wartime

alliance, could our friends to the North provide a template

for the UK as we negotiate In quieter corners of Westminster,

there are calls for the UK to follow the example of Norway

during a transitional period Some senior figures,

still struggling to come to terms with the referendum,

even whisper that what they are calling Norway for Now, could turn

into a permanent arrangement. Under the Norway option,

the UK would negotiate a semidetached relationship

with the EU as a member of a club Brexit supporters are likely to be

alarmed by some of the club rules, which would mean membership

of the single market, accepting the free movement

of people with some rights No vote, only

consultation on EU rules. Accepting the rulings

of a special court which always complies with judgments

from the European Court of Justice. Substantial contributions

to the EU budget. But Brexit supporters

might be encouraged that under the club rules,

the UK would be out of the Common No longer part of the common

fisheries policy and outs of the customs union,

freeing up the UK to strike up trade The father of the Tory

modernisation project, who made a point of not

showing his hand during Britain in the EEA would be

in the single market with all of the benefits

of certainty that brings for businesses who are really

concerned about the supply chain But outside the customs union

so we could make our I think in many ways,

as a holding pattern, the EEA option has a huge amount

to recommend it. Yes, we would continue to be

making some contributions. That, compared with the loss

of revenue that would come, if we have a real economic slowdown,

that would be kind Yes, you would have to accept some

kind of freedom of movement, although how much, remains

to be seen. It's not a certainty,

it's not an absolute. You don't have a wrote

on those rules... But one veteran pro-European

has his doubts. I think politically,

as a long-term solution, it's not viable because the British

people in the referendum, the general analysis is,

they voted to restrict free movement, so I think

the problem with Norway is, it has free movement of people

with the EU. The prospect of the UK modelling

itself on Norway is being canvassed by supporters of a so-called soft

Brexit, who feel newly emboldened by Theresa May's setback

in the general election. They believe that Philip Hammond's

recent talk of a lengthy transitional period has given them

license to highlight Norway Under their breath, they are also

saying that the so-called Norway for Now option would allow the UK

to hug the EU very close Some Leave supporters have told

Newsnight they could sign up to the Norway option,

as long as it's subject Britain would also need to win

concessions, for example a 50% cut in EU migrants and 50% cut

in contributions to the EU budget. But one minister told Newsnight

the Norway option would amount to a strategic mistake of historic

proportions, by turning the UK a rule taker,

rather than a rule maker. If you are going in saying, look,

I'll accept free movement, I'll accept paying in year in,

year out, for now or otherwise. Why would your interlocutors ever

give you a permanent deal? Why would they ever deliver a final

deal, as long as you are paying, as long as you are effectively

in the EU, because you are accepting free movement as well as accepting

EU laws without even shaping them? As Westminster basks

in another heatwave, the political atmosphere is gently

calming down ahead Below the surface, however,

Brexit keeps bubbling away. What does all this talk about Norway

say about the state of Brexit? It shows there are some senior Tories

that are advocating ideas she has dismissed. The Prime Minister is

clear she is not interested in off-the-shelf solutions like Norway.

She is clear Britain will negotiate its own bespoke gear. The most

senior person flexing their muscles is Philip Hammond. I am hearing

stories before the election, when he tried to raise concerns with Number

Ten about the possible economic consequences of Brexit, he was told

you of being overly pessimistic. The Chancellor is not talking in private

or in public about this Norway for now option. But some of his allies

are saying this could provide what he wants, which is a stable landing

for the UK economy in the transitional period. People are less

afraid of speaking out to the reason now since the election. Moore is

getting through. Tell me what others are saying who are pro-Brexiteers?

Some are saying they could live with this idea on the way, but others are

deeply suspicious. One senior figure told me it is about trying to weaken

Brexit in the hope of overturning the referendum. They are not remain

as, they are reversers. I am hearing talk in some quarters that Brexit

might not happen. I am talking to one Leave supporter who now fears

that the combination of stalling economy and investor fear over

possible Jeremy Corbyn Premiership could create a storm that would

stall Brexit. I spoke to another person who is familiar with the

Brexit process who said they think there is a strong chance it may not

actually happen. But I did speak to one senior Brexiteer who is

absolutely confident Brexit will happen, if only for one very simple

reason, divisions mean the legislation paving the way for

Brexit will get through Parliament. Nick, thanks very much.

It has been a very short leap from The Stepford Wives

to The Handmaids Tale a decade later, to female sex robots

for hire now in brothels in Asia and in Europe -

and which will soon be for sale, with AI, speech and movement,

TV drama has long been rehearsing the arguments

I'd rather make out with my Monroe-bot.

Billy, do you want to get a paper round and earn some extra cash?

No thanks, Dad, I'd rather make out with my Monroe-bot.

Billy, do you want to come over tonight, we can make out together?

Gee, Mavis, your house is across the street,

that's an awfully long way to go for making out.

Did you notice what went wrong in that scene?

Ordinarily, Billy would work hard to make money with his paper route.

Then he'd use the money to buy dinner for Mavis,

thus earning a slim chance to perform the reproductive act.

But in a world where teens can date robots, why should he bother?

Why in deed and is it acceptable to use so-called sexbots to redirect

dark behaviour from Newman is the robots. If six robots can be

programmed to put up resistance to a sexual aggressor who then rates the

robot, will it make it more likely his next victim will be human? These

are questions which discusses the controversial suggestions with the

use of six robots to prevent crimes. Please welcome my guests. What

basically is the issue about a robot who is capable of giving someone

sexual pleasure? People get confused with the idea that somehow a robot

is like a vibrator. A vibrator is something you rub on your body part.

I don't have a problem with objects you rub on your body parts. Could

they not be any shape, the shape of a female person? We are not just

talking about something you rub on your genitals, it has a complete

female form. It is still a machine. But it is piggybacking from ideas in

the pawn industry. Do you take the view is that it is pornographic?

Now, a vibrator is objectifying a male body part, even more

dehumanising because it is not the whole model it is presenting when

you are using it. On the point that the standard view is, if it gives

you pleasure and is not doing any harm to anybody, you take the view

it is OK? I would, but what I don't like is these robots are modelled as

women. It is something we have known about the pawn industry for ever it

is men making women for pleasure. We don't want to come 20 or 30 years

down the line to issues that have not been addressed. I wonder when

you actually read this report, robots with AI and can speak, are

coming soon, what do you think about the idea who can be resistant to six

and then what might happen is that there might be a scream and then the

robot might be hit three or four times and then gives in? That is

mimicking rate. Is that more likely, in your view, encourage human to

human rate or be a way of deflecting?

We have had to look at the fact that we are even asking this question.

But it'll be a reality soon. The point about sex robots, they'll

really a product of the porn industry. What we have created with

pornography is this detachment between sex and intimacy, we have

turned it into a commodity. We are getting young boys at the age of

nine watching pornography. Young girls turning up at clinics... That

may be true. That's the generation that will be using these. What I am

suggesting to you is that there is a difference between, as it were, an

inanimate object, or one that is created now for the actual purpose

of mimicking a rape victim. I talk to a lot of survivors of child

sexual abuse and rape. I think they would be insulted to think you could

compare something about their experience with a doll. However it's

going to be part of the fantasy world that is being created for men.

These dolls are coming. What would you say that they could be

programmed and made to make responses? We have to talk about the

good and bad, we always do with technology. There is something to be

said to get them to work with people who have committed rape to

rehabilitate them. Once somebody has done this many times with an

inanimate object and had no push back, they might actually go out and

rate humans. They have found from academics that have been studying

the art technology with a response to people with paedophilic desires,

they have try to see if these people would offend again or hurt children.

-- studying VR technology. There is no research -- there is not enough

research to see if it would encourage behaviour or stop it. It

is a bit like we sat around a video nasty 's and porn. The idea that

what ever you view will give you the idea to go and repeat it which isn't

true for many people. This is outrageous to suggest such a thing,

that we can experiment with younger children and test a product in

society which would make somebody very wealthy. I've not said anything

about experimenting with children. That paedophiles have to have a

paedophilic experience. There should be an absolute ban. We actually know

that there is a child sex robots. It is on the market. Not in this

country. This report is saying that these should be outlawed. Is that

your view? This is good. They are only just catching up. We said there

should be a ban on these. Because children cannot protect themselves.

I would agree. Not for pleasurable use. But there is evidence to

suggest they could be used for therapeutic use. That needs to be

researched more thoroughly by those that are already researching it in

Canada. They use the images to see if these offenders will reoffend.

Thank you very much. It's now 50 years since

the Summer of Love, but echoes of that groovy season

keep repeating, Talking of which, police have

stepped up patrols in a remote Welsh village which was once the scene

of a high-profile drugs bust on an LSD factory,

later immortalised in a song A former officer involved

in the raid says he believes a cache of high grade acid tabs

and ill-gotten money may be buried in nearby woods, which is why police

activity has increased. Our Culture Editor Stephen Smith

went to the village of Carno Come with us on a trip

to Carno in mid Wales, the kind of idyllic village that

seems to have one of everything. Oh, and a major class

A drugs factory, as was. This was the scene of notorious drug

bust, Operation Julie, Gumbo!#.

for the Drug Squad -- Police smashed an LSD lab this

old Mansion house loving -- Police smashed an LSD lab this

old Mansion house following a surveillance operation involving

a caravan full of plainclothes officers living hugger-mugger

in a muddy field. Millions of pounds worth of assets

was produced in these cellars. It was a large proportion

of the supply reaching Farmer Hugh Thomas

saw it all happen. And this car came into the yard

with a person walking out of it and we knew straightaway

they were police officers. The police took it over

and they dug the well out. It sounds like something out

of the Sweeney, though. The police grabbed the JCB digger

and they pulled a well out. Something like that

sticks in your mind. Pure LSD crystals were found buried

in another part of the garden. For a time afterwards

police recovered drugs from near the mansion,

but did they get it all? One person who doesn't

believe so is former policeman Steve Bentley,

who was once holed up in that cosy From the bar of that one pub

I mentioned in Carno, Newsnight spoke to Steve who now

lives in the Philippines. That stash is still buried

there within the grounds OK, so, then I checked

with a former colleague. And I said, hey, was a thorough

search made of the grounds come His answer was no because

the passage of time. So, could there be other intoxicants

in the Village apart Just talking to people

particularly recently, I don't think anybody has been

discounting the possibility. There was the lab equipment

hidden in the world. The fact they may have hidden LSD

is a distinct possibility. It was time to call

on the former drugs lab. Now home to the thoroughly

respectable Sue Marsh This was the cellar where

the illicit magic happened. Sue's husband keeps his

fishing tackle here. Have you had any psychedelic

experiences in the house, Sue? We have a ghost up

in the attic bedroom. I think it's a Victorian

lady, little, in white, Do you think I could be

picking up something. What's the best interpretation,

the acid or the ghost? We've had the police

round every day. What have they been

doing and saying? They've been guarding

the house and guarding us. We did think, though,

that last week we may have people coming up,

digging into the woods. My son found some jars,

sealed jars, and he has handed them to the police,

but we've had no feedback. Is there a fortune in contraband

in these here hills? And could Newsnight

succeed in unearthing it No, I don't think, there

is nothing here that... Perhaps I'll have a mooch about

and see if I can find it, shall I? It's not like us at all,

but it's almost as if we've We leave you with the winners

of the annual awards The rule is, as you probably worked

out, all the pictures have to be Submitting artists can

use their real names It looks as though Thursday could

start with a bang. Especially in the south-east quarter where there could

be a rumble of thunder accompanying some of these showers. Not

torrential