05/07/2017 Newsnight


05/07/2017

With Kirsty Wark. Korea's nuclear threat, universities minister Jo Johnson discusses tuition fees, and a new Brexit plan. Plus LSD, and are sexbots bad?


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Transcript


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Kim Yong-Un taunts Trump by showing again and again the moment

:00:15.:00:17.

North Korea launched a missile apparently capable of

:00:18.:00:19.

While the UN Security Council meets in emergency session,

:00:20.:00:28.

the US president is right now en route to China.

:00:29.:00:34.

But does he have any clue what to do about it?

:00:35.:00:37.

I'l be speaking to one of the few Americans ever to negotiate

:00:38.:00:39.

Has the election played havoc with Theresa May's

:00:40.:00:45.

Nick Watt has news we may be looking north.

:00:46.:00:50.

Westminster is abuzz with talk that the UK should follow

:00:51.:00:52.

the example of Norway for its immediate

:00:53.:00:54.

But some Brexiteers see this as a ruse by Remainers

:00:55.:00:58.

who are turning into Referendum Reversers.

:00:59.:01:07.

The sexual revolution never envisaged this.

:01:08.:01:12.

Robots are being programmed to have sex.

:01:13.:01:26.

Is there anything wrong with that, and if so, exactly what?

:01:27.:01:31.

We'll be sorting out the politics of robosex.

:01:32.:01:40.

At the emergency meeting of the UN Security Council tonight

:01:41.:01:46.

to discuss the response to the threat from North Korea

:01:47.:01:53.

following the first successful launch of an in intercontinental

:01:54.:01:55.

If claims are confirmed that the missile is capable

:01:56.:01:58.

of hitting US territory then the pressure will be on the US

:01:59.:02:01.

President to make a measured response after he has raised

:02:02.:02:03.

the rhetoric on North Korea since he entered the White House.

:02:04.:02:06.

When the missile was fired he tweeted, "Perhaps China will put

:02:07.:02:09.

the heavy moves on North Korea and end this nonsense

:02:10.:02:11.

The Chinese President, meeting President Putin

:02:12.:02:23.

yesterday in Moscow, announced that they want to take

:02:24.:02:25.

the lead in dealing with this escalation, at the same time

:02:26.:02:28.

condemning the US for increased military activity in the Pacific,

:02:29.:02:30.

and the deployment in south Korea of the US missile Defence System.

:02:31.:02:33.

Kim Jong-Un has ridden the rocket of brinkmanship again.

:02:34.:02:35.

By testing a missile with a range long enough to hit

:02:36.:02:38.

parts of the US he has thrown down the gauntlet.

:02:39.:02:40.

Unbowed by American threats and also resolved a

:02:41.:02:42.

We assume that North Korea has that capability with its medium-range

:02:43.:02:50.

systems, because they have been testing those

:02:51.:02:51.

And of course North Korea has had a number of nuclear tests.

:02:52.:02:57.

But you are right we will never know for sure whether they have

:02:58.:03:00.

an operational capability unless they have to use it.

:03:01.:03:08.

The new missile test lead the US to say that piece on the Korean

:03:09.:03:13.

peninsula is a choice they could change. And that diplomacy is

:03:14.:03:20.

running out of steam. -- peace. Their actions are closing off the

:03:21.:03:24.

possibility of a diplomatic solution. The United States is

:03:25.:03:27.

prepared to use the full range of our capabilities to defend ourselves

:03:28.:03:32.

and our allies. Where does that leave camp? Early in January the

:03:33.:03:40.

president tweeted that Kim's bid to develop something capable of hitting

:03:41.:03:44.

the US wouldn't happen. He listed China's help. In April he suggested

:03:45.:03:49.

China could get better trade terms if they solve the North Korean

:03:50.:03:55.

problem. Late last month but with -- late last month he said at least

:03:56.:04:03.

China tried. This gave way to anger. He accused them of wrapping up trade

:04:04.:04:06.

with North Korea rather than squeezing it. When Trump made his

:04:07.:04:13.

deal perhaps he was not fully aware of the history of US efforts to

:04:14.:04:20.

elicit better cooperation with China. If he was he probably would

:04:21.:04:26.

have been more careful in his approach to the Chinese premier. But

:04:27.:04:31.

we are where we are. The Chinese president today pointed that

:04:32.:04:38.

Vladimir Putin was his country's closest allies. And in the context

:04:39.:04:42.

of North Korea that points to a hidden alignment towards America's

:04:43.:04:51.

threats of force. Russia and China have implications for North Korea.

:04:52.:04:57.

Especially as it presents an option for North Korea. North Korea is a

:04:58.:05:09.

client state of China. In some way they legitimise North Korea's

:05:10.:05:15.

existence. America and South Korea today conducted their own missile

:05:16.:05:20.

firing drills. A warning to Kim Jong-Un. But also a reminder to

:05:21.:05:25.

China that the US is not about abandoned its regional partners. But

:05:26.:05:33.

for all the symbolism it shows the military options of the Pentagon.

:05:34.:05:38.

Trump is finding, like previous presidents, that we don't have any

:05:39.:05:43.

capability to stop North Korea from advancing its nuclear missile

:05:44.:05:47.

programme. Military options are obviously not practical because we

:05:48.:05:50.

are not capable of knocking out North Korea's missile systems. In

:05:51.:05:57.

any event, even if we tried, that is likely to lead to a conflict of the

:05:58.:06:03.

Korean peninsula which the US and US allies and Japan are not prepared to

:06:04.:06:08.

fight. Given the risks of using force, the Chinese option was

:06:09.:06:14.

probably worth a try. But Kim Jong-Un continues weapons tests

:06:15.:06:19.

undaunted, while President Trump formulates new policy, China holds

:06:20.:06:20.

nearly all the key cards. Bill Richardson - is a former

:06:21.:06:22.

Democratic governor and has negotiated with North Korea

:06:23.:06:25.

since the 1990s - he was involved in securing the release of US

:06:26.:06:27.

student Otto Warmbier. Good evening. How would you rate

:06:28.:06:44.

this particular moment historically? This is the worst state of tension

:06:45.:06:48.

in the Korean peninsula since the Korean War. With this capability

:06:49.:06:54.

that North Korea now has with the Kim Jong-Un acting in defiance. Not

:06:55.:07:02.

just of the US but the international community. Detailing Americans,

:07:03.:07:07.

Canadians there, basically sticking his nose up to the international

:07:08.:07:13.

community. And trying to provoke Donald Trump and the G20 into

:07:14.:07:18.

basically saying, you guys are meeting at the G20, I'm the main

:07:19.:07:21.

player in the world today. That is what Kim Jong-Un is saying. If it is

:07:22.:07:27.

one of the most dangerous moment since the Korean War, is it also a

:07:28.:07:34.

moment of opportunity? Well, I believe the only way we will get out

:07:35.:07:38.

of this North Korea drama is through diplomacy. But right now the options

:07:39.:07:47.

of diplomacy, because of the... There is no room for that type of

:07:48.:07:51.

diplomacy. The pre-emptive military strike I don't think that right now

:07:52.:07:56.

is realistic. In between we should look at options of squeezing China

:07:57.:08:00.

to squeeze North Korea more. I don't think we've done enough. I think

:08:01.:08:05.

more cyber efforts, more sanctions at the UN, get the international

:08:06.:08:08.

community, the G20 countries, the new alliance. I think we have a

:08:09.:08:14.

little time. But not much more. Nicky Healy has talked about the

:08:15.:08:18.

fact America will propose sanctions. But you have to have China on board.

:08:19.:08:23.

I just wonder. You talk about pushing China harder, but what never

:08:24.:08:30.

-- what leverage does Donald Trump have on China? Negative. Doing this

:08:31.:08:41.

them... Is that for Trump to do? Do we continue arms sales to Taiwan?

:08:42.:08:47.

And their efforts, you know? China wants to be pre-eminent in East

:08:48.:08:52.

Asia. Buttress our relations with South Korea, with Japan, commerce

:08:53.:08:58.

wise, militarily. China has to realise that the turmoil in the

:08:59.:09:02.

peninsula is not in their interest. But they are unwilling to risk

:09:03.:09:06.

anything by squeezing North Korea. So we have to put more levers on

:09:07.:09:11.

China. We need to get our European friends to help us because this

:09:12.:09:15.

affects the international community, the East Asian peninsula. This may

:09:16.:09:21.

be something, as a Democrat, you would have a certain answer for, but

:09:22.:09:26.

isn't part of the real problem the instability, you know, the

:09:27.:09:30.

flip-flopping Donald Trump undertakes? The goading of China for

:09:31.:09:35.

not doing enough, the idea he could do it himself, the idea they would

:09:36.:09:41.

never happen into ballistic missile -- intercontinental ballistic

:09:42.:09:44.

missile. Donald Trump is playing with fire and not essentially

:09:45.:09:49.

understanding what he is doing. The fire is caused by Kim Jong-Il and

:09:50.:09:54.

the North Koreans. As a Democrat, I think Donald Trump has been

:09:55.:09:58.

relatively restrained. I don't like his tweeting. I don't like him

:09:59.:10:03.

saying that he wants to meet Kim Jong-Un and that it would be an

:10:04.:10:06.

honour. I want him to have a coherent policy with his military

:10:07.:10:10.

advisers, our allies, bring it up at the G20. Try something new. But I

:10:11.:10:16.

think diplomacy is the only option. There is no sound military option. I

:10:17.:10:22.

think Kim Jong-Il and wants to provoke the international community.

:10:23.:10:25.

We shouldn't let him get away with that. We should be united in our

:10:26.:10:30.

efforts to squeeze him and the key is China. And the key is China.

:10:31.:10:35.

China has not stepped up. I want to come to the role you've played the

:10:36.:10:40.

past. The G20 will be a public thing. State to state diplomacy

:10:41.:10:44.

hasn't shown to be working. Are there back channels that need to be

:10:45.:10:49.

activated quickly and strongly? Yes. Let's look at new back channels.

:10:50.:10:56.

Private groups. Perhaps the Vatican. Perhaps China can play a mediating

:10:57.:10:59.

role by saying Kim Jong-Un, you've got to sit down and talk to the

:11:00.:11:05.

South Koreans and the Americans. Let's get this new president of

:11:06.:11:07.

South Korea who is ready to engage with North Korea, and in

:11:08.:11:13.

humanitarian issues, maybe he can be a channel. But let's try something

:11:14.:11:17.

new because the traditional China US South Korea in the past, six party

:11:18.:11:25.

talks, that isn't working. Are you optimistic on a scale from one to

:11:26.:11:33.

ten? I am about three right now and its dwindling. I'm worried, I'm

:11:34.:11:38.

really worried. But I think eventually the international

:11:39.:11:41.

community will develop a strategy. And hopefully Kim Jong-Un will come

:11:42.:11:46.

to his senses. But I wouldn't count on it right away. I think he is

:11:47.:11:50.

going to stretch it out. Thanks very much.

:11:51.:11:53.

We'll tuition fees in England stay or go? Labour wanted to scrap them.

:11:54.:12:01.

And it looks like the government was listening, following their

:12:02.:12:04.

disastrous election result. Damian Green stated there should be a

:12:05.:12:11.

national debate on fees. That's because the ISS has released a

:12:12.:12:15.

report which says students in England are going to graduate with

:12:16.:12:19.

an average debt of nearly ?51,000 and will be paying it off well into

:12:20.:12:27.

their 50s. -- that's because the IFS has released a report.

:12:28.:12:30.

But University Minister Jo Johnson today insisted they would stay.

:12:31.:12:33.

The message to the country, that it is absolutely paramount we pay off

:12:34.:12:40.

the country's debt, we become solvent. Yet your message to

:12:41.:12:44.

students seems to be, if you get a debt of ?51,000 and it lasts for

:12:45.:12:52.

many years it doesn't matter. Isn't that a inconsistent message? We have

:12:53.:12:55.

a world-class education system. Three of the universities here in

:12:56.:13:02.

the world's top ten. They need to be funded. We need to share the costs

:13:03.:13:06.

of that funding between the individual student that gets to get

:13:07.:13:11.

higher earnings, higher earnings than those who don't go to

:13:12.:13:18.

university, and the high tax payers. You called Jeremy Corbyn a liar when

:13:19.:13:22.

he said the fees discourage poor students from going to universities.

:13:23.:13:29.

He said he was a liar. Before poor students had maintenance grants. Now

:13:30.:13:33.

they don't. Poor students have maintenance loans and they also have

:13:34.:13:39.

their tuition loans. Student loans. Therefore poorer students come off

:13:40.:13:44.

worse. I didn't use the word liar. I said he was factually wrong. The

:13:45.:13:49.

number of students... Maintenance loans... Our finance system is

:13:50.:13:54.

allowing them to go to university in record numbers. But they don't have

:13:55.:13:58.

maintenance grants any more, they have maintenance loans. If they get

:13:59.:14:01.

a well-paid job they are worse off. I don't accept that. The government

:14:02.:14:07.

has made more financial support. But they are paying more. They have the

:14:08.:14:13.

cash in hand enable -- they have the cash in hand so they can go to

:14:14.:14:18.

university. Once they are in a job earning above ?21,000. So they are

:14:19.:14:22.

not saddled with debt. They don't have too pay until they are earning.

:14:23.:14:26.

But poorer students have to pay back more and they are worse off than a

:14:27.:14:30.

lot of other students. And worse off if they get a better job, actually

:14:31.:14:35.

worse off. There is a different way of putting it. But that's the right

:14:36.:14:40.

way of putting it. The government is making more resources available for

:14:41.:14:43.

people from poorer backgrounds. They have the chance to go to university

:14:44.:14:47.

and they are. This government says it is all about continued learning.

:14:48.:14:51.

You wanted to have mature student and part-time students. But there

:14:52.:14:57.

has been a drop mature students of 56% since tuition fees came in.

:14:58.:15:02.

Exactly the opposite of what you wanted over the last five years.

:15:03.:15:08.

One of the reasons is so many people are going to university for the

:15:09.:15:15.

first time when they are younger and not seeking to acquire higher

:15:16.:15:20.

education later in life. People need to retrain as their jobs change? We

:15:21.:15:27.

have an exceptionally strong labour market so the appeal of part-time is

:15:28.:15:36.

at diminishing... Part-time study. When there is a buoyant Lega market,

:15:37.:15:41.

the cost of going into part-time study is higher than when there are

:15:42.:15:49.

fewer jobs around. So we have diminishing part-time students? We

:15:50.:15:52.

have a buoyant labour market so there are lots of part-time jobs for

:15:53.:15:56.

people to go to. I am not denying there have been lots of barriers to

:15:57.:16:02.

part-time studying and that is why there is a part-time maintenance

:16:03.:16:05.

loan for the first time and that will help address some of these

:16:06.:16:09.

financial problems. But mature students and part-time students tend

:16:10.:16:13.

to be the poorest so they are proportionately again going to have

:16:14.:16:18.

more debt even if they are in well-paid jobs? This is about

:16:19.:16:26.

sharing the cost of how we fund a higher education programme. We have

:16:27.:16:30.

seen an increase in funding since our reforms. We want that to

:16:31.:16:37.

continue. You have a situation in the United Kingdom where the debts,

:16:38.:16:46.

?50,000, ?50,800, double the regular US debt student comes out with. You

:16:47.:16:50.

cannot be happy about that, double with what they pay in America? We

:16:51.:17:00.

need a sustainable cost funding university and the individual

:17:01.:17:05.

student will have a much higher lifetime learning trajectory. It is

:17:06.:17:10.

a fair system. Are you happy with that? Yes. The OECD, which looks at

:17:11.:17:17.

these finance systems of higher education around the world have said

:17:18.:17:20.

we are one of the few countries in the world to have cracked it. You

:17:21.:17:24.

are happy that the debt burden the student is tries than the American

:17:25.:17:30.

won? What I am happy with is we have a sustainable finance student system

:17:31.:17:36.

that allows people to go to university. You are 43% more likely

:17:37.:17:42.

to go to university if you are from a disadvantaged background today

:17:43.:17:46.

than you were in 1997. That is why Jeremy Corbyn is wrong to say

:17:47.:17:51.

working-class students are going to university less than before. It is

:17:52.:17:57.

factually wrong to say that. If everything is rosy in the garden,

:17:58.:18:01.

why is the Deputy Prime Minister saying he thinks there could be a

:18:02.:18:04.

debate about tuition fees in England. He is second in charge to

:18:05.:18:11.

Theresa May, you are the universities minister and you

:18:12.:18:13.

disagree with him. It is another example of this government looking

:18:14.:18:18.

in two directions at once. Damien is right, we need to look at the facts

:18:19.:18:32.

that exposes Labour's tuition fees. If you read his comments carefully,

:18:33.:18:36.

he was calling for time to expose the shortcomings of Labour's tuition

:18:37.:18:42.

fees policies which would lead to university is being unsustainable

:18:43.:18:45.

and the re-imposition of student number controls, which we have

:18:46.:18:51.

taken. It would stop more people from disadvantaged backgrounds going

:18:52.:18:54.

to university. There will be absolutely no change to the system

:18:55.:18:59.

under this Conservative government? We have a good system, enabling more

:19:00.:19:03.

people from disadvantaged backgrounds to go to university it

:19:04.:19:06.

is sustainable the funding universities. It is working and we

:19:07.:19:11.

wouldn't want to change the fundamental features. We always want

:19:12.:19:15.

to keep it under review to make sure it is fair and effective. Thank you

:19:16.:19:17.

very much. Before the election

:19:18.:19:19.

Theresa May was clear - she wanted a mandate

:19:20.:19:21.

for her version of Brexit. But the mess that she says

:19:22.:19:23.

she created with the election result means that she has lost authority

:19:24.:19:26.

to dictate terms. Now some MPs are pushing

:19:27.:19:28.

for a different vision of Britain's Two allies bound together

:19:29.:19:31.

by historic ties. Eight decades after our wartime

:19:32.:19:40.

alliance, could our friends to the North provide a template

:19:41.:19:43.

for the UK as we negotiate In quieter corners of Westminster,

:19:44.:19:46.

there are calls for the UK to follow the example of Norway

:19:47.:19:55.

during a transitional period Some senior figures,

:19:56.:19:57.

still struggling to come to terms with the referendum,

:19:58.:20:06.

even whisper that what they are calling Norway for Now, could turn

:20:07.:20:09.

into a permanent arrangement. Under the Norway option,

:20:10.:20:14.

the UK would negotiate a semidetached relationship

:20:15.:20:20.

with the EU as a member of a club Brexit supporters are likely to be

:20:21.:20:23.

alarmed by some of the club rules, which would mean membership

:20:24.:20:28.

of the single market, accepting the free movement

:20:29.:20:30.

of people with some rights No vote, only

:20:31.:20:33.

consultation on EU rules. Accepting the rulings

:20:34.:20:38.

of a special court which always complies with judgments

:20:39.:20:42.

from the European Court of Justice. Substantial contributions

:20:43.:20:47.

to the EU budget. But Brexit supporters

:20:48.:20:50.

might be encouraged that under the club rules,

:20:51.:20:53.

the UK would be out of the Common No longer part of the common

:20:54.:20:56.

fisheries policy and outs of the customs union,

:20:57.:21:03.

freeing up the UK to strike up trade The father of the Tory

:21:04.:21:06.

modernisation project, who made a point of not

:21:07.:21:12.

showing his hand during Britain in the EEA would be

:21:13.:21:14.

in the single market with all of the benefits

:21:15.:21:20.

of certainty that brings for businesses who are really

:21:21.:21:24.

concerned about the supply chain But outside the customs union

:21:25.:21:28.

so we could make our I think in many ways,

:21:29.:21:33.

as a holding pattern, the EEA option has a huge amount

:21:34.:21:40.

to recommend it. Yes, we would continue to be

:21:41.:21:43.

making some contributions. That, compared with the loss

:21:44.:21:49.

of revenue that would come, if we have a real economic slowdown,

:21:50.:21:53.

that would be kind Yes, you would have to accept some

:21:54.:21:59.

kind of freedom of movement, although how much, remains

:22:00.:22:04.

to be seen. It's not a certainty,

:22:05.:22:06.

it's not an absolute. You don't have a wrote

:22:07.:22:08.

on those rules... But one veteran pro-European

:22:09.:22:10.

has his doubts. I think politically,

:22:11.:22:11.

as a long-term solution, it's not viable because the British

:22:12.:22:13.

people in the referendum, the general analysis is,

:22:14.:22:17.

they voted to restrict free movement, so I think

:22:18.:22:22.

the problem with Norway is, it has free movement of people

:22:23.:22:24.

with the EU. The prospect of the UK modelling

:22:25.:22:27.

itself on Norway is being canvassed by supporters of a so-called soft

:22:28.:22:30.

Brexit, who feel newly emboldened by Theresa May's setback

:22:31.:22:33.

in the general election. They believe that Philip Hammond's

:22:34.:22:37.

recent talk of a lengthy transitional period has given them

:22:38.:22:40.

license to highlight Norway Under their breath, they are also

:22:41.:22:43.

saying that the so-called Norway for Now option would allow the UK

:22:44.:23:00.

to hug the EU very close Some Leave supporters have told

:23:01.:23:03.

Newsnight they could sign up to the Norway option,

:23:04.:23:07.

as long as it's subject Britain would also need to win

:23:08.:23:09.

concessions, for example a 50% cut in EU migrants and 50% cut

:23:10.:23:13.

in contributions to the EU budget. But one minister told Newsnight

:23:14.:23:18.

the Norway option would amount to a strategic mistake of historic

:23:19.:23:22.

proportions, by turning the UK a rule taker,

:23:23.:23:26.

rather than a rule maker. If you are going in saying, look,

:23:27.:23:30.

I'll accept free movement, I'll accept paying in year in,

:23:31.:23:38.

year out, for now or otherwise. Why would your interlocutors ever

:23:39.:23:41.

give you a permanent deal? Why would they ever deliver a final

:23:42.:23:44.

deal, as long as you are paying, as long as you are effectively

:23:45.:23:48.

in the EU, because you are accepting free movement as well as accepting

:23:49.:23:54.

EU laws without even shaping them? As Westminster basks

:23:55.:24:03.

in another heatwave, the political atmosphere is gently

:24:04.:24:06.

calming down ahead Below the surface, however,

:24:07.:24:08.

Brexit keeps bubbling away. What does all this talk about Norway

:24:09.:24:29.

say about the state of Brexit? It shows there are some senior Tories

:24:30.:24:36.

that are advocating ideas she has dismissed. The Prime Minister is

:24:37.:24:41.

clear she is not interested in off-the-shelf solutions like Norway.

:24:42.:24:45.

She is clear Britain will negotiate its own bespoke gear. The most

:24:46.:24:50.

senior person flexing their muscles is Philip Hammond. I am hearing

:24:51.:24:54.

stories before the election, when he tried to raise concerns with Number

:24:55.:24:59.

Ten about the possible economic consequences of Brexit, he was told

:25:00.:25:03.

you of being overly pessimistic. The Chancellor is not talking in private

:25:04.:25:08.

or in public about this Norway for now option. But some of his allies

:25:09.:25:13.

are saying this could provide what he wants, which is a stable landing

:25:14.:25:20.

for the UK economy in the transitional period. People are less

:25:21.:25:28.

afraid of speaking out to the reason now since the election. Moore is

:25:29.:25:34.

getting through. Tell me what others are saying who are pro-Brexiteers?

:25:35.:25:39.

Some are saying they could live with this idea on the way, but others are

:25:40.:25:44.

deeply suspicious. One senior figure told me it is about trying to weaken

:25:45.:25:48.

Brexit in the hope of overturning the referendum. They are not remain

:25:49.:26:00.

as, they are reversers. I am hearing talk in some quarters that Brexit

:26:01.:26:05.

might not happen. I am talking to one Leave supporter who now fears

:26:06.:26:10.

that the combination of stalling economy and investor fear over

:26:11.:26:14.

possible Jeremy Corbyn Premiership could create a storm that would

:26:15.:26:18.

stall Brexit. I spoke to another person who is familiar with the

:26:19.:26:22.

Brexit process who said they think there is a strong chance it may not

:26:23.:26:27.

actually happen. But I did speak to one senior Brexiteer who is

:26:28.:26:31.

absolutely confident Brexit will happen, if only for one very simple

:26:32.:26:41.

reason, divisions mean the legislation paving the way for

:26:42.:26:43.

Brexit will get through Parliament. Nick, thanks very much.

:26:44.:26:45.

It has been a very short leap from The Stepford Wives

:26:46.:26:48.

to The Handmaids Tale a decade later, to female sex robots

:26:49.:26:51.

for hire now in brothels in Asia and in Europe -

:26:52.:26:54.

and which will soon be for sale, with AI, speech and movement,

:26:55.:26:56.

TV drama has long been rehearsing the arguments

:26:57.:27:03.

I'd rather make out with my Monroe-bot.

:27:04.:27:09.

Billy, do you want to get a paper round and earn some extra cash?

:27:10.:27:13.

No thanks, Dad, I'd rather make out with my Monroe-bot.

:27:14.:27:15.

Billy, do you want to come over tonight, we can make out together?

:27:16.:27:18.

Gee, Mavis, your house is across the street,

:27:19.:27:20.

that's an awfully long way to go for making out.

:27:21.:27:25.

Did you notice what went wrong in that scene?

:27:26.:27:27.

Ordinarily, Billy would work hard to make money with his paper route.

:27:28.:27:30.

Then he'd use the money to buy dinner for Mavis,

:27:31.:27:33.

thus earning a slim chance to perform the reproductive act.

:27:34.:27:37.

But in a world where teens can date robots, why should he bother?

:27:38.:27:40.

Why in deed and is it acceptable to use so-called sexbots to redirect

:27:41.:27:59.

dark behaviour from Newman is the robots. If six robots can be

:28:00.:28:05.

programmed to put up resistance to a sexual aggressor who then rates the

:28:06.:28:09.

robot, will it make it more likely his next victim will be human? These

:28:10.:28:16.

are questions which discusses the controversial suggestions with the

:28:17.:28:28.

use of six robots to prevent crimes. Please welcome my guests. What

:28:29.:28:38.

basically is the issue about a robot who is capable of giving someone

:28:39.:28:43.

sexual pleasure? People get confused with the idea that somehow a robot

:28:44.:28:50.

is like a vibrator. A vibrator is something you rub on your body part.

:28:51.:28:54.

I don't have a problem with objects you rub on your body parts. Could

:28:55.:29:00.

they not be any shape, the shape of a female person? We are not just

:29:01.:29:07.

talking about something you rub on your genitals, it has a complete

:29:08.:29:12.

female form. It is still a machine. But it is piggybacking from ideas in

:29:13.:29:20.

the pawn industry. Do you take the view is that it is pornographic?

:29:21.:29:26.

Now, a vibrator is objectifying a male body part, even more

:29:27.:29:30.

dehumanising because it is not the whole model it is presenting when

:29:31.:29:35.

you are using it. On the point that the standard view is, if it gives

:29:36.:29:39.

you pleasure and is not doing any harm to anybody, you take the view

:29:40.:29:45.

it is OK? I would, but what I don't like is these robots are modelled as

:29:46.:29:51.

women. It is something we have known about the pawn industry for ever it

:29:52.:29:59.

is men making women for pleasure. We don't want to come 20 or 30 years

:30:00.:30:07.

down the line to issues that have not been addressed. I wonder when

:30:08.:30:14.

you actually read this report, robots with AI and can speak, are

:30:15.:30:24.

coming soon, what do you think about the idea who can be resistant to six

:30:25.:30:28.

and then what might happen is that there might be a scream and then the

:30:29.:30:33.

robot might be hit three or four times and then gives in? That is

:30:34.:30:39.

mimicking rate. Is that more likely, in your view, encourage human to

:30:40.:30:42.

human rate or be a way of deflecting?

:30:43.:30:50.

We have had to look at the fact that we are even asking this question.

:30:51.:30:57.

But it'll be a reality soon. The point about sex robots, they'll

:30:58.:31:01.

really a product of the porn industry. What we have created with

:31:02.:31:08.

pornography is this detachment between sex and intimacy, we have

:31:09.:31:11.

turned it into a commodity. We are getting young boys at the age of

:31:12.:31:15.

nine watching pornography. Young girls turning up at clinics... That

:31:16.:31:21.

may be true. That's the generation that will be using these. What I am

:31:22.:31:27.

suggesting to you is that there is a difference between, as it were, an

:31:28.:31:32.

inanimate object, or one that is created now for the actual purpose

:31:33.:31:40.

of mimicking a rape victim. I talk to a lot of survivors of child

:31:41.:31:44.

sexual abuse and rape. I think they would be insulted to think you could

:31:45.:31:48.

compare something about their experience with a doll. However it's

:31:49.:31:52.

going to be part of the fantasy world that is being created for men.

:31:53.:31:56.

These dolls are coming. What would you say that they could be

:31:57.:32:03.

programmed and made to make responses? We have to talk about the

:32:04.:32:07.

good and bad, we always do with technology. There is something to be

:32:08.:32:14.

said to get them to work with people who have committed rape to

:32:15.:32:18.

rehabilitate them. Once somebody has done this many times with an

:32:19.:32:23.

inanimate object and had no push back, they might actually go out and

:32:24.:32:28.

rate humans. They have found from academics that have been studying

:32:29.:32:33.

the art technology with a response to people with paedophilic desires,

:32:34.:32:40.

they have try to see if these people would offend again or hurt children.

:32:41.:32:48.

-- studying VR technology. There is no research -- there is not enough

:32:49.:32:54.

research to see if it would encourage behaviour or stop it. It

:32:55.:32:58.

is a bit like we sat around a video nasty 's and porn. The idea that

:32:59.:33:02.

what ever you view will give you the idea to go and repeat it which isn't

:33:03.:33:07.

true for many people. This is outrageous to suggest such a thing,

:33:08.:33:11.

that we can experiment with younger children and test a product in

:33:12.:33:15.

society which would make somebody very wealthy. I've not said anything

:33:16.:33:21.

about experimenting with children. That paedophiles have to have a

:33:22.:33:24.

paedophilic experience. There should be an absolute ban. We actually know

:33:25.:33:32.

that there is a child sex robots. It is on the market. Not in this

:33:33.:33:40.

country. This report is saying that these should be outlawed. Is that

:33:41.:33:45.

your view? This is good. They are only just catching up. We said there

:33:46.:33:53.

should be a ban on these. Because children cannot protect themselves.

:33:54.:34:00.

I would agree. Not for pleasurable use. But there is evidence to

:34:01.:34:05.

suggest they could be used for therapeutic use. That needs to be

:34:06.:34:09.

researched more thoroughly by those that are already researching it in

:34:10.:34:13.

Canada. They use the images to see if these offenders will reoffend.

:34:14.:34:15.

Thank you very much. It's now 50 years since

:34:16.:34:17.

the Summer of Love, but echoes of that groovy season

:34:18.:34:19.

keep repeating, Talking of which, police have

:34:20.:34:21.

stepped up patrols in a remote Welsh village which was once the scene

:34:22.:34:25.

of a high-profile drugs bust on an LSD factory,

:34:26.:34:27.

later immortalised in a song A former officer involved

:34:28.:34:30.

in the raid says he believes a cache of high grade acid tabs

:34:31.:34:38.

and ill-gotten money may be buried in nearby woods, which is why police

:34:39.:34:40.

activity has increased. Our Culture Editor Stephen Smith

:34:41.:34:47.

went to the village of Carno Come with us on a trip

:34:48.:34:50.

to Carno in mid Wales, the kind of idyllic village that

:34:51.:35:09.

seems to have one of everything. Oh, and a major class

:35:10.:35:15.

A drugs factory, as was. This was the scene of notorious drug

:35:16.:35:31.

bust, Operation Julie, Gumbo!#.

:35:32.:35:34.

for the Drug Squad -- Police smashed an LSD lab this

:35:35.:35:43.

old Mansion house loving -- Police smashed an LSD lab this

:35:44.:35:59.

old Mansion house following a surveillance operation involving

:36:00.:36:02.

a caravan full of plainclothes officers living hugger-mugger

:36:03.:36:04.

in a muddy field. Millions of pounds worth of assets

:36:05.:36:12.

was produced in these cellars. It was a large proportion

:36:13.:36:15.

of the supply reaching Farmer Hugh Thomas

:36:16.:36:17.

saw it all happen. And this car came into the yard

:36:18.:36:20.

with a person walking out of it and we knew straightaway

:36:21.:36:26.

they were police officers. The police took it over

:36:27.:36:28.

and they dug the well out. It sounds like something out

:36:29.:36:35.

of the Sweeney, though. The police grabbed the JCB digger

:36:36.:36:38.

and they pulled a well out. Something like that

:36:39.:36:40.

sticks in your mind. Pure LSD crystals were found buried

:36:41.:36:47.

in another part of the garden. For a time afterwards

:36:48.:36:54.

police recovered drugs from near the mansion,

:36:55.:36:57.

but did they get it all? One person who doesn't

:36:58.:37:02.

believe so is former policeman Steve Bentley,

:37:03.:37:05.

who was once holed up in that cosy From the bar of that one pub

:37:06.:37:10.

I mentioned in Carno, Newsnight spoke to Steve who now

:37:11.:37:18.

lives in the Philippines. That stash is still buried

:37:19.:37:20.

there within the grounds OK, so, then I checked

:37:21.:37:22.

with a former colleague. And I said, hey, was a thorough

:37:23.:37:37.

search made of the grounds come His answer was no because

:37:38.:37:44.

the passage of time. So, could there be other intoxicants

:37:45.:37:53.

in the Village apart Just talking to people

:37:54.:37:55.

particularly recently, I don't think anybody has been

:37:56.:37:58.

discounting the possibility. There was the lab equipment

:37:59.:38:00.

hidden in the world. The fact they may have hidden LSD

:38:01.:38:02.

is a distinct possibility. It was time to call

:38:03.:38:08.

on the former drugs lab. Now home to the thoroughly

:38:09.:38:11.

respectable Sue Marsh This was the cellar where

:38:12.:38:13.

the illicit magic happened. Sue's husband keeps his

:38:14.:38:18.

fishing tackle here. Have you had any psychedelic

:38:19.:38:23.

experiences in the house, Sue? We have a ghost up

:38:24.:38:25.

in the attic bedroom. I think it's a Victorian

:38:26.:38:32.

lady, little, in white, Do you think I could be

:38:33.:38:37.

picking up something. What's the best interpretation,

:38:38.:38:47.

the acid or the ghost? We've had the police

:38:48.:38:50.

round every day. What have they been

:38:51.:38:57.

doing and saying? They've been guarding

:38:58.:39:05.

the house and guarding us. We did think, though,

:39:06.:39:07.

that last week we may have people coming up,

:39:08.:39:13.

digging into the woods. My son found some jars,

:39:14.:39:15.

sealed jars, and he has handed them to the police,

:39:16.:39:18.

but we've had no feedback. Is there a fortune in contraband

:39:19.:39:25.

in these here hills? And could Newsnight

:39:26.:39:32.

succeed in unearthing it No, I don't think, there

:39:33.:39:35.

is nothing here that... Perhaps I'll have a mooch about

:39:36.:39:49.

and see if I can find it, shall I? It's not like us at all,

:39:50.:39:55.

but it's almost as if we've We leave you with the winners

:39:56.:40:05.

of the annual awards The rule is, as you probably worked

:40:06.:40:21.

out, all the pictures have to be Submitting artists can

:40:22.:40:25.

use their real names It looks as though Thursday could

:40:26.:41:34.

start with a bang. Especially in the south-east quarter where there could

:41:35.:41:38.

be a rumble of thunder accompanying some of these showers. Not

:41:39.:41:39.

torrential

:41:40.:41:40.

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines. With Kirsty Wark.

Korea's nuclear threat, universities minister Jo Johnson discusses tuition fees, and a new Brexit plan.

Plus LSD, and are sexbots bad?


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