Browse content similar to 25/07/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good evening and welcome to Washington, | :00:00. | :00:07. | |
where tonight the raging storm is a political one. | :00:08. | :00:19. | |
This capital city is buzzing tonight | :00:20. | :00:21. | |
with vicious intrigue and raw politics. | :00:22. | :00:24. | |
The President is at daggers drawn with the man he appointed | :00:25. | :00:27. | |
Donald Trump cannot forgive Mr Sessions for recusing himself | :00:28. | :00:35. | |
from an FBI inquiry into any Russian meddling in last year's election - | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
an inquiry which, if you're looking from the White House, | :00:39. | :00:41. | |
Cue a volley of angry tweets from the President | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
against a member of his own Cabinet this week, | :00:46. | :00:47. | |
calling the Attorney General "weak" and "beleaguered". | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
All this on the very day he struggled | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
to get a major piece of legislation on reforming health care | :00:55. | :00:56. | |
And into this maelstrom walks the British International Trade | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
He wants a big international trade agreement with the United States. | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
He needs it desperately if Brexit is to be a success. | :01:07. | :01:08. | |
President Trump rolled out senior Republicans to meet Dr Fox, | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
including the House Speaker, Paul Ryan. | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
But when Trump tweets that a UK trade deal is big and exciting, | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
Before we came on air, I spoke to Liam Fox | :01:20. | :01:27. | |
about Trump, trade and - yes - chicken. | :01:28. | :01:29. | |
First, the big picture of what's at stake. | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
At 4:16am this morning, the President of the United States's | :01:34. | :01:37. | |
Twitter account enthused over Liam Fox's visit. | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
"Our special relationship with the UK is going to be even | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
better, the US trade representative and UK's Liam Fox met today to begin | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
A few hours later, so too did @realDonaldTrump - | :01:49. | :01:57. | |
"Working on major trade deal with the United Kingdom, | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
could be very big and exciting, JOBS!" | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
"The EU is very protectionist with the US, stop!" | :02:05. | :02:06. | |
Today there was good economic news for the Government at home. | :02:07. | :02:09. | |
BMW announced they will build the fully electric version | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
of the Mini at its Cowley plant near Oxford. | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
The mood music may be positive, but Washington has long-standing | :02:16. | :02:22. | |
gripes with EU restrictions that they'd like rid off. | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
First, there's what's been called chlorination chicken. | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
The US wants to sell us birds washed in chlorine - | :02:30. | :02:31. | |
they insist they do not pose a health risk to consumers. | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
Then there's hormone-boosted beef that the US insists | :02:37. | :02:38. | |
The US wants to be able to sell us whisky aged less than three years - | :02:39. | :02:46. | |
they call the current three-year requirement unwarranted. | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
They complain that their corn exports are being hit | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
And Washington has UK Government subsidies of Rolls-Royce | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
Plenty for the Trade Secretary to consider, and time is pressing. | :02:57. | :03:07. | |
I spoke Liam Fox just hours after that President Trump tweet | :03:08. | :03:10. | |
about a "big, exciting" trade deal between the UK and the USA. | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
I began by asking him which sectors or industries in the UK | :03:15. | :03:16. | |
should be excited about a potential trade deal. | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
We've been initiating a process of trade and investment working groups | :03:22. | :03:28. | |
here, and there are four of them, one on continuity arrangements, that | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
party to us by virtue of our membership of the EU, and we have to | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
ensure they are replicated to ensure continuity of market access. We have | :03:39. | :03:44. | |
been looking at areas where we can make short-term breakthroughs in | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
liberalisation while we're still in the EU. In terms of business is all | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
sectors, who are you thinking of? The third area is preparation for | :03:53. | :03:55. | |
free trade agreements, and we have got working groups looking across | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
the normal sectors to see where the opportunities might exist, and then | :04:01. | :04:03. | |
our fourth group is looking at where we can work bilaterally to improve | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
market access for both the US and the UK and across the global | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
markets. So it is not a single focus at this point, it is great to have | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
the enthusiasm of the American side in the process, and it has been very | :04:16. | :04:18. | |
evident in the warmth with which we have been received here, but we are | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
still a long way from being able to set out details of where we think | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
the major breakthroughs would come, that is why we have officials. We | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
know the Treasury has asked you to show how all this free trade will | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
bring more value than any trade that is lost from the EU. | :04:36. | :04:37. | |
Well, I don't accept the premise of the question, | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
because it makes the assumption that we will lose value from our | :04:43. | :04:44. | |
Well, we have to lose either the EU deal or the American deal. | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
No, we don't, we don't have to lose anything at all. | :04:50. | :04:51. | |
We haven't begun our negotiations with the EU yet on | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
a future free trade agreement, and we begin from a very good | :04:57. | :04:58. | |
position of zero tariffs and absolute regulatory equivalence. | :04:59. | :05:00. | |
So that, technically, removes a lot of the barriers to difficulty. | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
We are aiming that we will have a very open | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
and comprehensive trading deal with the European Union, | :05:09. | :05:10. | |
and our aim is to give all our businesses the same rights | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
Now, how possible that will be, we won't know until we begin | :05:14. | :05:19. | |
At the same time, we will want to see how we can get increased | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
access to other markets, including the United States, | :05:25. | :05:26. | |
but perhaps even more crucially how we can work with countries | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
like the United States to open up the global economy | :05:30. | :05:31. | |
in things like services, which will matter | :05:32. | :05:32. | |
But your belief is that no value will be lost? | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
Well, I hope that no value will be lost. | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
And of course it makes no sense to have an assumption | :05:40. | :05:46. | |
that you will be at one end of the spectrum | :05:47. | :05:48. | |
rather than the other, so what we're aiming for is an open, | :05:49. | :05:51. | |
liberal, comprehensive agreement with the European Union, | :05:52. | :05:53. | |
which is in both our interests to have - | :05:54. | :05:56. | |
both for European producers as well as British producers. | :05:57. | :05:58. | |
And at the same time to have a good agreement with the United States | :05:59. | :06:01. | |
and the reason for that is the global economy is sluggish. | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
Global trade is growing at only 1.3% at the present time, | :06:07. | :06:09. | |
we must get that up, because we've got to see a more | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
open trading environment or our exporters will suffer. | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
Trade is abstract, it is complicated, and I know | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
that you accuse us, the media, of obsessing over chicken, | :06:23. | :06:24. | |
but the reason we talk about chicken is it is tangible, | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
people actually understand that as an issue. | :06:28. | :06:29. | |
So is it true that we would change our regulations, our food standards, | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
We've no intentions of reducing standards, as we said | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
on a number of occasions, we think the British standards | :06:37. | :06:39. | |
So you would then rule out chlorine-washed chicken? | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
Well, there is no health issue with that, the European Union has | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
The issue lies around some of the secondary issues of animal welfare, | :06:49. | :07:01. | |
and it is perfectly reasonable for people to raise that, but it will | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
come much further down the road. We will be looking at those issues much | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
further down the road. But this is something people can understand, | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
will you say it is fine, we don't need the regulation that the EU | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
currently has, we will be prepared to accept whatever the chicken is | :07:18. | :07:19. | |
washed in because we believe it is the right way to go, it makes food | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
cheaper and it is the right deal with the US? We will want to make | :07:25. | :07:27. | |
sure that scientific advice ensures proper protection for British | :07:28. | :07:33. | |
consumers, because dropping our standards... Well, it doesn't, the | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
EU has a preventative strategy, so it doesn't believe that | :07:38. | :07:40. | |
chlorine-washed chicken is the right thing to have in the EU. Will I | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
change under Liam Fox's trade deal? I can rule out that we will be | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
dropping our standards on consumer protection or environmental | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
protection or on animal welfare, these are reasonable things for | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
people to look at, but in terms of where we will be on specifics by the | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
time we finish a free-trade agreement which could be two or | :08:02. | :08:04. | |
three years by the time it is concluded, depending on the rest of | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
our relationship with the EU, it is too early say, but as a general | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
principle we are not going to be the low regulation alternative that some | :08:15. | :08:17. | |
people have suggested. Chicken is just one of a list, and we could | :08:18. | :08:24. | |
also be looking at GM crops - will we be accepting GM crops, hormone | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
fed beef? You are asking me the same question in a different way. These | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
are elements that we will look at further down, these are elements in | :08:34. | :08:36. | |
the agricultural section of an agreement. But we could be in a | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
process that will now accept GM crops or hormone fed beef. We will | :08:41. | :08:48. | |
want to look at what science tells us, what is the best protection for | :08:49. | :08:51. | |
our consumers and the environment, and we will look at that across | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
government. We are not going to jump to conclusions right now, because | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
that would be an inappropriate way to carry out a negotiation. The US | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
wants us to stop subsidising Rolls-Royce engines made in Derby, | :09:05. | :09:10. | |
will we do that? It is a negotiation, and we want to see what | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
we can get from the Americans, they will want to get things from us. We | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
will not be giving away things that are detrimental to UK producers, our | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
economy or consumers, why would we do that? The whole idea of Brexit, | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
the line that we were fed was taking back control - now we are in a | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
position where you cannot rule out that we might have chlorine-washed | :09:32. | :09:38. | |
chicken, GM crops, hormone fed beef, why are we in a position where we | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
seem to be going along with whatever a superpower does, whatever | :09:44. | :09:46. | |
principles or standards or lower standards America is suggesting we | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
might have to accept? That is the question people want to know, if we | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
are taking back control. You are suggesting we have to stick with | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
whatever the European Union tells us in terms of legacy. We will make the | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
right decisions for the UK, we will decide for the UK what is best, not | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
what is best for the US, for the European Union, what is best for the | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
UK, and all of those areas... And the US model may be better than EU | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
regulations. The British model will be the best model for Britain. | :10:18. | :10:20. | |
Back now to the political storm here in Washington itself, | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
where the White House is continuing its relentless | :10:25. | :10:25. | |
Twitter pounding of the Attorney General, Jeff Sessions. | :10:26. | :10:28. | |
Last week, the President said he wished he'd never have appointed | :10:29. | :10:30. | |
Mr Sessions if he'd known that he'd recuse himself from | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
And this morning at 6am, the social-media assault continued. | :10:34. | :10:36. | |
All this as Donald Trump struggled to try and get one of his most | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
important pieces of domestic legislation, | :10:40. | :10:40. | |
Mark Urban has been watching the events of the day. | :10:41. | :10:50. | |
The president of United States... Despite a packed legislative agenda | :10:51. | :10:56. | |
and multiple international challenges, the stand-off between | :10:57. | :10:59. | |
the president and those investigating him continues. Today, | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
he fuelled doubts about the future of his own principal law officer. I | :11:05. | :11:09. | |
am disappointed in the Attorney General. He should not have recused | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
himself - almost immediately after he took office. And if he was going | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
to recused themselves, he should have told me prior to taking office, | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
and I would have picked somebody else. So I think that is a bad | :11:23. | :11:28. | |
thing, not for the president, but for the presidency. I think it is | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
unfair to the presidency. And that is the way I feel. The President at | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
least one of his early-morning tweet storms, covering a variety of | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
subjects, and attacking his own Attorney General, saying he has | :11:42. | :11:47. | |
taken a very weak position on Hillary Clinton crimes, where are | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
the leakers? It followed a tweet yesterday where he asked | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
rhetorically, why aren't the committees and investigators and of | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
course our beleaguered Attorney General looking into crooked | :12:00. | :12:02. | |
Hillary's crimes and Russia relations? This is just outright | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
bullying of Jeff Sessions at this point, we have seen it for several | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
days running, and the president almost appearing to want to force | :12:11. | :12:13. | |
him to quit, to resign, rather than be forced into another awkward | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
position of demanding his resignation or sending him his | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
walking papers. That touched a nerve with many Republicans on The hill, | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
where Jeff Sessions served for 20 years as a senator along side men | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
like Lindsey Graham, a persistent Republican trump critic who | :12:30. | :12:35. | |
responded to the latest tweets with his own sewing... | :12:36. | :12:45. | |
So is the Republican caucus fraying? Well, the House Majority Leader was | :12:46. | :12:52. | |
today still backing his president. It is up to the president to decide | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
on his personnel decisions and any fallout from that, if he has | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
concerns about anyone in the administration, I am sure he will | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
talk with them directly. Speaker Ryan, like many on the hill, wants | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
to try and maintain momentum on the platform he was elected on, with the | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
repeal and replacement of President Obama's health-care plan ranking | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
high on that agenda. Today, a senator vote so narrow that John | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
McCain had to come in from his sick bed carried that forward, delivering | :13:25. | :13:32. | |
a fillip for the president. I hope we can continue to depend on each | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
other, to learn how to trust each other again, and by so doing better, | :13:37. | :13:42. | |
save the people who elected us. Stop listening to the bombastic | :13:43. | :13:44. | |
loudmouths on the radio and television and the internet. To hell | :13:45. | :13:55. | |
with them! They don't want anything done for the public good. Our | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
incapacity is their livelihood. Let's trust each other. Let's return | :14:01. | :14:06. | |
to regular order. The motion to proceed on health care has just | :14:07. | :14:09. | |
passed... But the legislative game of pass the parcel continues between | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
two Republican-controlled chamber is hooked on the rhetoric of repealing | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
Obamacare but scared of the consequences of depriving millions | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
of their care. This is not the end of the road, it may be a near-term | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
win for Trump today, but there are significant differences, this is one | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
sixth of the US economy, tens of millions of people poised to lose | :14:33. | :14:35. | |
their health care under any form of this bill, and this is proving | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
deeply unpopular - this bill only had the support of around 20% of the | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
American people, whether or not the Republicans have the calculus right | :14:44. | :14:51. | |
today, a lot of people are questioning. That battle will call | :14:52. | :14:53. | |
soon for summer's congressional recess, but the rush of probe will | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
go one, and tonight the new communications director at the White | :14:58. | :14:59. | |
House said the president will soon come to a decision about the future | :15:00. | :15:02. | |
of his Attorney General, Jeff Sessions. | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
Well, earlier I spoke to one of the few political experts | :15:07. | :15:08. | |
who predicted Donald Trump's victory in last year's election, | :15:09. | :15:10. | |
Professor Allan Lichtman of the American University | :15:11. | :15:13. | |
He got the last nine election is correct and previously stood for the | :15:14. | :15:22. | |
Democrats. Nine months later, he's predicting | :15:23. | :15:23. | |
the end of the Trump presidency and has written a book | :15:24. | :15:26. | |
arguing his position, I began by asking him how he reached | :15:27. | :15:27. | |
both his predictions. My prediction of a Donald Trump | :15:28. | :15:32. | |
victory was based upon a scientific method, studying all American | :15:33. | :15:35. | |
elections going back to 1860. My prediction of a Donald Trump | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
impeachment, of course, could not be based on a mathematical | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
model, because there haven't been enough examples | :15:44. | :15:46. | |
of impeachment in US history. But my prediction of a Donald Trump | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
impeachment, in my book, The Case For Impeachment, | :15:52. | :15:53. | |
was based on a deep study of the history of impeachments, | :15:54. | :15:57. | |
the basis for impeachments, Donald Trump's record | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
as a businessman, and Donald Trump's record during the first two or three | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
months of his administration. That was enough to point me | :16:06. | :16:11. | |
towards what seemed to be an inevitable end to the presidency | :16:12. | :16:13. | |
in the first term. And are you suggesting that | :16:14. | :16:16. | |
impeachment is imminent? Let's not forget that | :16:17. | :16:19. | |
Bill Clinton wasn't impeached until well into the fifth year | :16:20. | :16:27. | |
of his presidency. Richard Nixon didn't resign | :16:28. | :16:34. | |
until more than five and a half So I wouldn't say impeachment | :16:35. | :16:36. | |
is right around the corner, but I do think it's going to come, | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
and when it will come will be when Republicans come to realise | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
that this President is a liability The Lichtman rule of politics | :16:48. | :16:50. | |
is that the first requisite for any incumbent officeholder is personal | :16:51. | :16:59. | |
survival - not loyalty Impeachment, though, | :17:00. | :17:01. | |
is not a thing - it is a vote, Impeachment is a vote by a majority | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
- not a supermajority - of the US House of Representatives, | :17:08. | :17:15. | |
and, of course, Republicans But it would only take about two | :17:16. | :17:17. | |
dozen Republicans to defect from Donald Trump to get a majority | :17:18. | :17:26. | |
vote on impeachment, that's only about 10% | :17:27. | :17:28. | |
of Republicans in the House. So is there a loyalty | :17:29. | :17:33. | |
still from the Republican Party I think his party | :17:34. | :17:36. | |
stands on a knife edge. On the one hand, they desperately | :17:37. | :17:42. | |
want to support their president, and they don't want to see | :17:43. | :17:45. | |
an ugly impeachment process. On the other hand, they realise that | :17:46. | :17:47. | |
a president whose approval rating is in the 36-40% range | :17:48. | :17:50. | |
is a liability to their party and could be a liability | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
to their own personal re-election. I don't think Republicans | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
are at impeachment yet, but it wouldn't take all that much | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
to push them over the line. If Jeff Sessions is removed or goes, | :18:06. | :18:11. | |
do you think that will trigger No, I don't think the firing | :18:12. | :18:20. | |
of Jeff Sessions or the pushing of Jeff Sessions out by itself | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
would be enough for the party, the Republicans to move | :18:26. | :18:28. | |
towards impeachment. What might move them | :18:29. | :18:29. | |
towards impeachment would be that if the firing or resignation | :18:30. | :18:36. | |
of Jeff Sessions was a prelude to the firing of the special | :18:37. | :18:38. | |
counsel, Robert Mueller. That could push Republicans over | :18:39. | :18:41. | |
the line, although I'm not even So we are getting back to, | :18:42. | :18:43. | |
essentially, the Russia scandal Is your sense that impeachment | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
would come from treason? I think we are treading close | :18:48. | :18:54. | |
to possible treason. Russia attacked the United States - | :18:55. | :18:57. | |
it wasn't a military attack, but it was an attack nonetheless, | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
not only through hacking of Democratic e-mails | :19:02. | :19:09. | |
but through the use of Russian state-controleld media and through | :19:10. | :19:11. | |
the use of trolls and bots And if any of Trump's team | :19:12. | :19:14. | |
was involved in colluding with the Russians in that attack, | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
that arguably is treason. If Trump himself knew about it, | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
even if he didn't participate, that's another crime called | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
misprision of treason, the failure to report treason, | :19:27. | :19:31. | |
and if Trump himself was involved, I believe a strong case | :19:32. | :19:34. | |
could be made for treason. And treason is a very serious charge | :19:35. | :19:36. | |
- no sitting high public official of the United States has ever been | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
charged with treason in our history. You write in the book about Trump's | :19:42. | :19:46. | |
vulnerabilities - what do you see I wrote in The Case For Impeachment | :19:47. | :19:49. | |
that a Russian sword of Damocles is hanging over this administration, | :19:50. | :19:56. | |
it's hanging on a very That meeting with Donald Trump | :19:57. | :19:59. | |
Junior, Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort with | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
a multiplicity of Russian actors is, in my mind, pretty powerful | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
circumstantial proof of collusion. The purpose of the meeting | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
was to get from the Russian government dirt on Hillary Clinton, | :20:13. | :20:15. | |
their opponent. That alone, the willingness | :20:16. | :20:22. | |
the eagerness to take that meeting, is certainly strong circumstantial | :20:23. | :20:24. | |
But people listening to this will be possibly saying, | :20:25. | :20:30. | |
"There is a man who is clearly a Democrat, who is creating, | :20:31. | :20:33. | |
if you like, rumour for political spite." | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
Nonsense - I have been predicting elections since 1980, | :20:38. | :20:45. | |
and I have predicted about as many Republican victories | :20:46. | :20:47. | |
If I was just, you know, a flag for the Democratic Party, | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
In fact, I've lost all my Democratic friends because I predicted | :20:53. | :20:58. | |
Donald Trump's victory - I even got a note from him | :20:59. | :21:01. | |
acknowledging that prediction, saying, "Good call, Professor." | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
In addition, there have been plenty of presidents with whom I have | :21:06. | :21:08. | |
disagreed with their policies, but I've never before | :21:09. | :21:10. | |
predicted a president was going to get impeached. | :21:11. | :21:19. | |
I'm joined now by the Republican strategist Chris Neiweem. | :21:20. | :21:25. | |
Just before we came on air we should tell viewers the US house of | :21:26. | :21:33. | |
representatives had overwhelmingly backed new sanctions against Russia, | :21:34. | :21:39. | |
419-3. The question now is well Donald Trump have to go a long with | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
the overwhelming vote for stronger sanctions or will he resist it? It's | :21:44. | :21:49. | |
always difficult to predict what President Trump does, his behaviour | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
and his actions are always, they come directly from him and sometimes | :21:54. | :21:59. | |
he disagrees with his Republican party, he came to power in a very | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
diverse way. It will restrict some of his capabilities especially in | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
dealing with Russia. I think he will think it over but we could see | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
resistance based on his past actions. Looking at what happened | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
today, the health care, not a bell, a bill about a bill which was | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
essentially about appealing Obamacare, it passed by a whisker. | :22:23. | :22:27. | |
That after ruling out poor John McCain who has just undergone brain | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
surgery, this is not a man who looks in control at the moment. I think | :22:33. | :22:38. | |
that would be correct, it's a thin margin and we expected that. The | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
health care legislation affects every state different, the United | :22:44. | :22:46. | |
States sent by design was supposed to be more deliberate. I win is a | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
win so if they can get over the threshold and get it it's all that | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
matters. When I heard from the Independent Senator Angus King this | :22:58. | :23:00. | |
morning he said let me give you a brief synopsis of what we understand | :23:01. | :23:03. | |
the health care bill this afternoon and he paused and that was it. | :23:04. | :23:08. | |
Nobody understood what they were even voting on. That is a tragic | :23:09. | :23:13. | |
position for a new president to be in six months in. It's definitely a | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
very interesting political dynamic. Also remember the United States | :23:20. | :23:23. | |
Senate when you look at procedures and boats, voting to proceed to the | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
vote, we need to see the final vote on the text. I think it's going to | :23:28. | :23:33. | |
be close but ultimately this is why lawmaking is hard. He is calling on | :23:34. | :23:38. | |
the loyalty of the party right now at the same time he is trying to | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
fire his own Attorney General, and man who's he appointed just six | :23:44. | :23:47. | |
months ago, one of his earliest and most loyal followers who gave up the | :23:48. | :23:51. | |
good Senate position to be there. How do we understand what is going | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
on in that dynamic and what other Republicans should make of it? | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
Trying to guess the behaviour of President Trump is very difficult. | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
Don't guess or predict that then, tell me how people should behave in | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
terms of their loyalty within the party? Everyone needs to think with | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
their priorities and what they think should happen and their own | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
integrity but this president does have a business negotiation | :24:19. | :24:21. | |
background, he is high standards and wants to see things a certain way. | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
He was being cautious and if he had nothing to hide let those | :24:28. | :24:30. | |
investigations go on and fall where they fall, I think it was peculiar | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
but that is where we are right now and we'll have to see where it plays | :24:35. | :24:38. | |
out and if he retains the Attorney General. At the moment it seems like | :24:39. | :24:44. | |
he will. There must be people like you, Republicans and critically | :24:45. | :24:47. | |
people in the Senate and the house who are asking themselves in all | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
faith how much longer can we support a president whose actions we might | :24:52. | :24:57. | |
not even understand let alone support. If Jeff Sessions is fired | :24:58. | :25:04. | |
or encouraged to go is that tipping point? It's an interesting case | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
study in American politics and democracy because this president | :25:10. | :25:12. | |
went to the people and that is where he got his mandate and that is who | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
elected him. Before the election he was beating up Republicans and | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
Democrats with both hands and won. It comes down to if the people | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
continue to support him and if you will continue to have a working | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
relationship to get the agenda through. I have never seen this | :25:29. | :25:34. | |
political dynamic, it's very unique and makes for interesting analysis | :25:35. | :25:41. | |
at least we can say that. So when a distinguished professor like Allan | :25:42. | :25:43. | |
Lichtman who has called the last nine presidential wins says that he | :25:44. | :25:52. | |
imagines the impeachment of Donald Trump not imminently, not September, | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
but down the line, you have to listen to that presumably? I think | :25:58. | :26:00. | |
you need to listen to it and look at it but with everyone in the universe | :26:01. | :26:04. | |
looking for something on Russian collusion we'll find out whether it | :26:05. | :26:08. | |
is collusion delusion or substantial and that talk about if there is | :26:09. | :26:16. | |
something there. The government has to get things done legislatively. | :26:17. | :26:20. | |
Chris Neiweem, thank you for coming in. Good to be with you. | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
Let's just pause the discussion about Donald Trump here | :26:25. | :26:26. | |
in the United States for just a moment | :26:27. | :26:28. | |
and take a look at American policy towards the fight | :26:29. | :26:30. | |
Pepfar is the multibillion-dollar US fund which | :26:31. | :26:33. | |
has saved thousands, if not millions, of lives | :26:34. | :26:35. | |
But doctors are warning that they face a difficult choice. | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
American policy now prohibits funding of such schemes | :26:40. | :26:41. | |
if they might have anything to do with abortion. | :26:42. | :26:43. | |
It's become known as the "global gag" rule, as Karen Allen reports. | :26:44. | :26:53. | |
A little over 20 years since the dawn of democracy, | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
South Africa projects the image of a country on the move. | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
But it has the largest number of people in the world | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
living with HIV AIDS - 7 million of them. | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
Yet the disease is no longer a death sentence | :27:11. | :27:13. | |
that it was for previous generations, thanks in part | :27:14. | :27:15. | |
to millions of dollars of US government aid. | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
You and I slept without condoms so all your exes are pretty much | :27:21. | :27:23. | |
One of the great success stories of how that US money | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
What is the point of this clinic if you can't help me? | :27:28. | :27:33. | |
But if the storyline strays into reproductive | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
health or abortion issues, the producers have to look | :27:39. | :27:41. | |
It's all about complying with tight US funding rules and those rules | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
With the stroke of a pen President Trump has enacted what's | :27:47. | :28:00. | |
It means that millions of dollars of US money for HIV is potentially | :28:01. | :28:07. | |
at risk if it's linked in any way to abortion. | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
HIV prevalence in South Africa is high. | :28:13. | :28:14. | |
There is a lot of work that goes towards it. | :28:15. | :28:16. | |
And this is work that we want to continue happening. | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
So I think this is where the main problem is, | :28:22. | :28:23. | |
that we are going to have to choose one, you know? | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
Are we going to choose to keep fighting HIV in the country, | :28:27. | :28:29. | |
or are we going to choose to give women the rights that they have | :28:30. | :28:32. | |
Unlike many other countries in Africa, abortion | :28:33. | :28:38. | |
But with high levels of stigma almost half of all terminations | :28:39. | :28:44. | |
There is anecdotal evidence that the pills used to induce | :28:45. | :28:53. | |
an abortion are stolen from state hospitals by members of staff then | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
With the introduction of the US rules, there's a fear | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
about a contraction of services here, forcing more women to seek | :29:02. | :29:04. | |
Here in Johannesburg you don't have to be a detective to discover | :29:05. | :29:13. | |
where to purchase abortion drugs on the black market. | :29:14. | :29:18. | |
We've taken our hidden cameras, with an actress posing as a client, | :29:19. | :29:22. | |
Watch the character in the dark jacket, he's the dealer. | :29:23. | :29:37. | |
He tries to steer her into a shop to hand over the pills. | :29:38. | :29:48. | |
It then emerges that the man sitting down is in fact his accomplice. | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
They just want to make the sale so he slips the drug | :29:54. | :29:56. | |
from up his sleeve and then in minutes the pair are gone. | :29:57. | :30:06. | |
The actress hands us the packet of five pills, | :30:07. | :30:09. | |
which she was instructed to take all at once. | :30:10. | :30:11. | |
We took the drugs to an accredited abortion clinic. | :30:12. | :30:19. | |
These are the pills that we picked up on the street, 500 Rand, ?30. | :30:20. | :30:22. | |
Yes they are the right drugs but the dosage, no, it's not. | :30:23. | :30:29. | |
We give clients four pills and this being five is an overdose. | :30:30. | :30:38. | |
Campaigners worry that with the shadow cast over funding | :30:39. | :30:41. | |
for all areas of health, including family planning, | :30:42. | :30:45. | |
more unwanted pregnancies and more terminations are inevitable. | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
Botched abortions are one of the biggest causes | :30:50. | :30:51. | |
The new global gag rule is only likely to make that worse. | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
And for HIV AIDS, which still claims millions of lives each | :30:57. | :30:59. | |
year, there could also be unintended consequences. | :31:00. | :31:06. | |
Even though I tested HIV-positive, I don't think it's a barrier for me | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
This woman, an aspiring young businesswoman, | :31:11. | :31:17. | |
owns her survival in part to the billions of US tax dollars | :31:18. | :31:20. | |
The US contributes two thirds of all bilateral funding worldwide. | :31:21. | :31:28. | |
I come draw blood every six months and collect my medication | :31:29. | :31:31. | |
But the money to keep her healthy now has conditions attached. | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
It cannot be traced to abortion services in any shape or form. | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
I don't see how people can sit in Washington and think | :31:44. | :31:46. | |
they can then influence me on that micro level. | :31:47. | :31:48. | |
I am restricted in terms of giving you health information | :31:49. | :31:52. | |
that you have a right to for you to make informed choice. | :31:53. | :31:55. | |
So it interferes with the doctor-patient | :31:56. | :31:56. | |
relationship in a very, very, very negative manner. | :31:57. | :31:59. | |
The problem with singling out abortion is that modern day health | :32:00. | :32:02. | |
care is all integrated, whether it's children's | :32:03. | :32:04. | |
Activists warn they could all be affected by this rule simply | :32:05. | :32:12. | |
With a children's clinic here and reproductive health and HIV | :32:13. | :32:20. | |
services down the corridor, this one-stop shop is the gold | :32:21. | :32:24. | |
standard that international health agencies are trying to promote. | :32:25. | :32:28. | |
But there is a fear that the global gag rule could impose guilt | :32:29. | :32:31. | |
by association for services that have got nothing | :32:32. | :32:34. | |
Thousands of miles from here President Trump's signed into law | :32:35. | :32:41. | |
rules which some view as an assault on South Africa's sovereignty. | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
But turning the country's back on the biggest donor | :32:47. | :32:48. | |
The taxpayers in the United States have a right. | :32:49. | :32:58. | |
And the health care workers in South Africa and the women | :32:59. | :33:00. | |
in South Africa have a right to also attain their highest level of care | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
Many believe the US is overstepping the mark, threatening to damage | :33:05. | :33:13. | |
sweeping gains made to improving the health of millions | :33:14. | :33:16. | |
Self-sufficiency still beyond the horizons of many African states. | :33:17. | :33:30. | |
I'm joined now by two seasoned Trump watchers - | :33:31. | :33:35. | |
Susan Glasser from the news website Politico | :33:36. | :33:37. | |
and James Kirchick from the Brookings Institute. | :33:38. | :33:42. | |
Very nice to have both of you. If I could start with you, we have heard | :33:43. | :33:50. | |
a lot this week about Russia, we have had Jared Kushner two days | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
running in those hearings, we will be hearing from Paul Manafort the | :33:56. | :33:58. | |
former communications director, tomorrow. Allan Lichtman was telling | :33:59. | :34:03. | |
me that Trump could be the first president found guilty of treason. I | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
think that is a really great charge to be throwing around. Treason is a | :34:09. | :34:12. | |
very specific definition in the United States, you have to be aiding | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
and abetting an enemy of the United States with whom we are at war. | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
Russia is an enemy of this country, but we're not at war with them, so I | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
think the rush to that sort of conclusion, the use that language is | :34:25. | :34:27. | |
really ill tempered and inaccurate. I not trying to defend Donald Trump, | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
his position on Russia and what the campaign did. I thought what we saw | :34:33. | :34:37. | |
during the campaign, Trump speaking of his admiration for Vladimir | :34:38. | :34:41. | |
Putin, calling on the Russians to hack Hillary Clinton, it was | :34:42. | :34:44. | |
abominable, unpatriotic, un-American, but it does not rise to | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
the level of treason. Susan Glasser, over to you, do you think his | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
critics are getting carried away on this one? Smoke with no fire? Well, | :34:55. | :35:00. | |
look, first of all, we are at the beginning stage of multiple | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
different investigations, including, most seriously, the FBI and special | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
counsel investigation headed by Bob Muller. Jamie makes an important | :35:09. | :35:11. | |
point, to throw around words like that is probably not constructive | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
for opponents of President Trump. The impeachment word has been used | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
almost since noon on January the 20th, when Donald Trump became | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
president, and the bottom line is, even if that were to be the outcome, | :35:27. | :35:30. | |
we're talking about years of investigations and a very difficult | :35:31. | :35:33. | |
political process on Capitol Hill before anything of that kind would | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
happen. You get the sense from talking to lots of people who are | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
understandably confused, they think, when will impeachment happen? Next | :35:42. | :35:48. | |
month or something? Democrats are confused as to why Republicans are | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
not more outraged by any sense of collusion or dealings with Russia, | :35:54. | :35:57. | |
let's say, watched you make of that? As someone who has been very | :35:58. | :36:01. | |
critical of the Republicans and the stance they have taken over the past | :36:02. | :36:05. | |
year and a hard, really, Russia, I have to say that they are partly | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
right to be a little sceptical of the outrage being expressed by | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
Democrats. If you look at the record of the Obama administration on | :36:15. | :36:17. | |
Russia over the last eight years, starting with the recent policy that | :36:18. | :36:20. | |
began only six months after Russia invaded Georgia, we had a procession | :36:21. | :36:26. | |
of moves that were basically feckless in dealing with Russia. In | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
2012, Barack Obama mocked Mitt Romney, the presidential candidate, | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
forcing Russia was our number one geopolitical threat, and now lots of | :36:36. | :36:38. | |
Republicans are looking at Democrats, who laughed at them four | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
years ago is for being these retrograde cold warriors, lecturing | :36:44. | :36:46. | |
conservatives and Republicans that they are all pawns of Vladimir | :36:47. | :36:49. | |
Putin. A lot of conservatives are very sceptical. Would you agree | :36:50. | :36:57. | |
that, actually, the ill ease started with a Obama, and all the | :36:58. | :37:01. | |
concessions, or all the weakness that Goodin saw in him? I think you | :37:02. | :37:07. | |
have to go back much farther than that, the bottom line is that George | :37:08. | :37:10. | |
W Bush first encountered Vladimir Putin as president back in 2001 and | :37:11. | :37:16. | |
said he was a man he could do business with. There has been a long | :37:17. | :37:22. | |
arc of four presidents, because Bill Clinton also had a brief opening up | :37:23. | :37:28. | |
with Vladimir Putin. It is fair to say that both Democratic and | :37:29. | :37:31. | |
Republican presidents have come in believing that they could work more | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
closely with Russia, that we had national interests that would | :37:36. | :37:37. | |
converge on key issues around the world, and all of them have found | :37:38. | :37:42. | |
themselves disillusioned. Donald Trump is a huge outlier in that he | :37:43. | :37:47. | |
is the only one of them who has come in fawning over Vladimir Putin's | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
anti-democratic tendencies, fawning over Putin as a leader, and | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
basically saying that he admires him and wants to work with him. Inside | :37:57. | :38:01. | |
United States, in a partisan sense, it is both Democrats and Republicans | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
who have an enormous amount of hypocrisy to go around, both have | :38:06. | :38:08. | |
switched their positions based on nothing to do with Russia but having | :38:09. | :38:12. | |
to do with the partisan politics of Russia changing in the United | :38:13. | :38:15. | |
States, so that does make it, I think, very congregated in trying to | :38:16. | :38:21. | |
sort through, but both parties have enough hypocrisy to go around on | :38:22. | :38:25. | |
this issue. We're running out of time, so big picture, Jamie, six | :38:26. | :38:30. | |
months into the Trump presidency, if someone said to you, how is it going | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
now, I talk to members of the administration who say, ignore the | :38:35. | :38:39. | |
tweets, the bombastic side of Trump, he is getting on with the job and it | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
is working - is that how it seems from inside Washington? In | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
Washington, things can seem worse than they do out in the country. | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
That said, Donald Trump has not really accomplished any major pieces | :38:54. | :38:59. | |
of legislation so far. He is attacking his own Attorney General, | :39:00. | :39:02. | |
there are rumours now that his Secretary of State, Rex Tillerson, | :39:03. | :39:05. | |
might be resigning some time before the end of the year. So it is not | :39:06. | :39:10. | |
going very good for him. I am not going to say impeachment is on the | :39:11. | :39:13. | |
horizon, that is being hysterical, but it is not going well for him. | :39:14. | :39:16. | |
Thank you both very much indeed. After Sean Spicer's departure | :39:17. | :39:18. | |
from the White House last week, we leave you with President Trump's | :39:19. | :39:22. | |
new director of communication, the former Goldman Sachs investment | :39:23. | :39:24. | |
manager Anthony Scaramucchi, The President's fake news media | :39:25. | :39:26. | |
enemies are already trying to make None more so than the | :39:27. | :39:35. | |
Daily Show's Trevor Noah, who may just have worked out | :39:36. | :39:38. | |
his secret sauce. If you thought Donald Trump | :39:39. | :39:40. | |
was inimitable, take a look. A spell of wetter and windy weather | :39:41. | :39:42. | |
coming our way tomorrow, but there will be some brighter | :39:43. | :40:06. | |
parts to pick out, and if you're in eastern areas, it's | :40:07. | :40:09. | |
the morning, the best | :40:10. | :40:12. |