Browse content similar to 31/07/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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I'm here to serve at the discretion of the President. | :00:00. | :00:08. | |
If he wants me to leave tomorrow, then I'm not | :00:09. | :00:10. | |
There's never a dull moment in this White House, but the sacking | :00:11. | :00:16. | |
of the communications director Anthony Scarramucci, | :00:17. | :00:18. | |
after just ten days in post, could be a sign that the grown-ups | :00:19. | :00:22. | |
are imposing themselves. We'll ask the editor in chief | :00:23. | :00:25. | |
of Slate Magazine if Trump's new Chief of Staff is bringing | :00:26. | :00:28. | |
From Russia.. Without much love. | :00:29. | :00:40. | |
To North Korea with a fair bit of hate. | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
Is it right to think the world is at an unusually | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
We'll take stock tonight and ask the big question - | :00:48. | :00:54. | |
Is it wrong to broadcast the private conversations of Princess Diana? | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
Ten years ago, Anita Roddick, the environmentalist and founder | :01:00. | :01:03. | |
of the Body Shop died, one of the most high-profile victims | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
We hear from her daughter Sam for the first time. | :01:08. | :01:13. | |
She was pretty clear that she got it through | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
I could really hear the vulnerability in her voice, because | :01:18. | :01:23. | |
Well, the story tonight is either that the White House is imploding | :01:24. | :01:39. | |
or that it is getting itself into shape. | :01:40. | :01:41. | |
We won't know for a while, but we do know that Anthony Scarramucci, | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
who had made such a mark in his few days as communications | :01:45. | :01:47. | |
US media reporting that the new Chief of | :01:48. | :01:52. | |
Mr Scarramucci spun it with more grace than had been evident in most | :01:53. | :01:58. | |
He felt it was best to give the new Chief of Staff John Kelly | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
a clean slate and the ability to build his own team, | :02:05. | :02:06. | |
At the end of a turbulent week it does seem that President Trump has | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
yielded to the argument that stability is better than chaos. | :02:13. | :02:14. | |
You're here to stay? We'll see, I'm here to serve at the discretion of | :02:15. | :02:23. | |
the president. If he wants me to leave tomorrow then I'm not going to | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
be here to stay. Anthony Scaramucci is an excommunications director. | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
This interview from the White House was recorded earlier today. So the | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
Chief of Staff was literally sworn in about 52 minutes ago, so he is | :02:37. | :02:43. | |
setting in place the procedures by which he will run the White House | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
internally. Where Anthony fits into that you would have to ask general | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
Kelly. Let's give him more than 52 minutes and find out later in the | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
week. We didn't need that long. I love the president. And I'm very, | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
very loyal to the president. When Mr Scaramucci got the job ten days ago, | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
the White House press secretary, Sean Spicer resigned over that | :03:06. | :03:11. | |
appointment. Then last week, Mr Scaramucci publicly the then White | :03:12. | :03:21. | |
House Chief of Chief of Staff. He was replaced last week. That was | :03:22. | :03:28. | |
seen as a win for Mr Scaramucci. But Mr Priebes's replacement, general | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
John Kelly's demappeded Mr Scaramucci's removal in turn. Mr | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
Scaramucci's attack last week may have made that an easier sale. The | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
president certainly felt that Anthony's comments were | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
inappropriate for a person in that position. He didn't want to burden | :03:47. | :03:52. | |
General Kelly also with that line of succession. Mr Scaramucci was | :03:53. | :04:03. | |
actually the second communications director, following Mike Dubcic who | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
resigned in June. And this is the second National Security Adviser, | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
the first, Mike Flynn, resigned after misleading the Vice President | :04:12. | :04:14. | |
on issues around the Russian influence scandal. Irritation with | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
the investigation into that scandal eventually led to President Trump | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
firing the FBI director, James Comey. We also know the president | :04:25. | :04:32. | |
may about be about to fire his Attorney-General Jeff Sessions | :04:33. | :04:35. | |
because he recuesed himself from that investigation. Maybe General | :04:36. | :04:38. | |
Kelly will make the White House work. But they've had a humiliation | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
on health care in Congress, that Russian links investigation is | :04:43. | :04:45. | |
rumbling on and it's still not a normal White House. | :04:46. | :04:53. | |
Our North America Editor, Jon Sopel joins us now from outside | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
So, how many in DC saw that coming as quickly as that? I would love to | :04:58. | :05:09. | |
tell you that we all saw that coming, the truth is I was in the | :05:10. | :05:12. | |
White House briefing room a few hours ago, and we were sitting | :05:13. | :05:15. | |
around shooting the breeze and saying, you know what, it all | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
suddenly feels a very much great deal calmer, compared to last week. | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
Donald Trump going on holiday at the end of the week for a couple of | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
weeks. It's probably going to be a slight lull now and then probably | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
absolutely nothing to do for a couple of weeks. Then came the flash | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
that Anthony Scaramucci was going, note quite as quiet then. Even, we | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
understand, that Mr Scaramucci was escorted off the premises. Ten days | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
ago, he was seen as the answer to Donald Trump's prayers on | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
communication and press relations. Now gone, departed. Briefly, one | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
should say this is incredibly absorbing. Every minute we're | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
talking about the personnel and comings and going, not talking about | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
health care, defence or global problems, Paris climate deals or | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
anything. I think that's why it is important for General Kelly to have | :06:06. | :06:08. | |
notched up this victory today but for future victories. He wants to | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
bring a sense of order, process, a chain of command, a proper reporting | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
structure into the White House so that when you are dealing with | :06:17. | :06:19. | |
issues like, I don't know, North Korea, or even domestic policy | :06:20. | :06:22. | |
questions, you've got a White House that is pulling in One Direction not | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
going off in different directions with everyone briefing against each | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
other, which has been the hall mark of these past six months. Thank you | :06:31. | :06:32. | |
very much. If you were watching on Wednesday, | :06:33. | :06:41. | |
you would have seen what I think was the only overseas broadcast | :06:42. | :06:43. | |
interview with Anthony Scaramucci in that post. It was our very own emity | :06:44. | :06:51. | |
Matlis who captured that scoop. You had a close up glimpse of the chaos. | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
Even before this happened there was a joke doing the rounds that the | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
former apprentice boss one Donald Trump thought he had to eliminate | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
one person each week, he somehow misunderstood the role of president. | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
Now we're on more than one a week. I spoke to him exclusively for the BBC | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
for Newsnight less than a week ago. There was a certain amount of chaos | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
even then. To put it in context, I was standing pretty much where Jon | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
was, that interview should never have happened. Scaramucci was | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
walking past behind me, taking selfies, as is the want of Trump | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
administration, before that infamous dinner. When I realised who it was, | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
I pulled out my ear piece and I tried to lure him onto Newsnight. It | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
was the thing that any journalist in my position would have done. The | :07:39. | :07:41. | |
curious thing was that he didn't seem to need to refer upwards. He | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
didn't ask me what I was going to ask him about. He didn't need to | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
know how long the interview would be or what it was about. He was | :07:48. | :07:50. | |
flattered. He came on - That's kind of what we like about the guy. As a | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
journalist, he is about as good as it gets. When I asked about the | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
British story of the day, the Brexit deal, chlorination chicken to coin a | :08:01. | :08:06. | |
phrase, he fessed up, "I know nothing about your chicken story. I | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
promise if you come back in a week's time, I will know chicken 100%." | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
Unfortunately that won't happen. There was an impromptu and that is | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
being kind, seat of the pants attitude, not just for me, but for | :08:21. | :08:23. | |
him. The way it's played out, it points to a deeper structural issue | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
about the way the White House runs. This is the curious thing. I talk to | :08:28. | :08:30. | |
members of the Trump administration quite often, not just Scaramucci and | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
the grown ups, shall we say, are keen to point out, they tell me, | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
ignore the schtik. That is their way to say, there is a lot of stuff | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
which is part hysteria, it's noise, it's the tweets, it's the press | :08:45. | :08:47. | |
briefings, it's President Trump making a lot of noise around was | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
going on. He says behind all that, there is actually a strategy. There | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
is something going on smoothly beneath the surface, that the media | :08:57. | :08:59. | |
doesn't see because the rest is entertaining. There is a sense | :09:00. | :09:01. | |
tonight that John Kelly has come in and decided to tighten the ship. One | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
member of the administration told me in confidence, they always get | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
excited when they see "recognisable adult behaviour" from the Trump | :09:12. | :09:13. | |
administration. That equates to a good day for them. Perhaps this is | :09:14. | :09:19. | |
General Kelly's way of saying it is not enough to go round telling me | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
like me to ignore the schtik, we have to shut down the circus, kille | :09:25. | :09:30. | |
clowns, make the fanfare -- kill the clowns and make the fanfare go away | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
and make people know there is a strategy to the White House. Thanks. | :09:35. | :09:37. | |
Joining us now from New York is Jacob Weisberg - | :09:38. | :09:39. | |
editor in chief of the online news site "Slate" and the presenter | :09:40. | :09:42. | |
The big question is - is Kelly going to instil some discipline on this | :09:43. | :09:54. | |
tumultuous White House? Well, first let's pause to savour for a minute | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
what we've just been through. In your wonderful interview last week, | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
Scaramucci said he wasn't a back stabber, he was a front stabber. But | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
he didn't go quite so far as to say he would be a front self-stabber | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
with such proefficiency. I mean even in this White House where the shelf | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
life of aides seems to range between milk and yoghurt this was incredibly | :10:20. | :10:25. | |
swift. I think General Kelly has a difficult task before him. I have no | :10:26. | :10:31. | |
doubt that he can function effectively as a gatekeeper for | :10:32. | :10:33. | |
Donald Trump. The question is whether President Trump will allow | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
himself to be gate kept. We know what a strong Chief of Staff looks | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
like in the White House and how they operate. There have been many | :10:42. | :10:48. | |
examples over the past several presidencies. That means the | :10:49. | :10:55. | |
president must not have separate private channels of communication | :10:56. | :10:58. | |
and Trump has shown zero ability to do. Some of his staff has professed | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
it as a philosophy, that chaos is a way of getting things done, smashing | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
systems that are broken and need replacing, this is all part of | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
disruption. Do you think Trump is persuaded, deep down persuaded, that | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
is not the way to get things done, that you need just a bit of | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
traditional governmental competence? No, I don't think he is persuaded. I | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
don't know that chaos is his theory, but it works for him. Creating more | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
chaos at the very least always changes the subject when he's in | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
trouble from one crisis to another. I think you've seen even in the last | :11:36. | :11:42. | |
week, which is by any standard about a chaotic as the White House has | :11:43. | :11:45. | |
gotten. Trump tweeted this morning that there is no White House chaos. | :11:46. | :11:51. | |
What it's done is it's removed the possibility of attention for | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
anything other than Trump. So the Democrats tried to roll out their | :11:56. | :12:03. | |
plan for the mid-terms, senator Schumer and Nancy Pelosi announced | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
their better deal which is their big initiative heading towards the | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
mid-terms. There was no oxygen left for it. I mean it was just a brief | :12:12. | :12:17. | |
flurry because within a few hours, Trump was attacking his own | :12:18. | :12:20. | |
Attorney-General and within a few days, he was bringing in Scaramucci | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
and you know, there's only so much space in the news. No-one was really | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
able to get to anything beyond Trump's chaos. No room for politics | :12:30. | :12:35. | |
as normal. Just in terms of who's up and who's down, which are the | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
different Donald Trumps, if you like, is going to prevail? The big | :12:40. | :12:46. | |
question is Steve Bannon, who has been a bit quiet in the last week. | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
Where is he out of all of this? It's funny Bannon, he got in trouble for | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
appearing on the cover of Time magazine with the headline that | :12:57. | :12:59. | |
suggested he was the real power rather than Trump. There's nothing | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
riskier to do in the Trump White House than claim the lion's share of | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
the attention. I do think Bannon has learned his lesson. I mean, he's | :13:09. | :13:11. | |
been much less visible and prominent. There is an interesting | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
new book about him and Trump out, but he doesn't seem to be making any | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
effort to put himself in front of the cameras the way Anthony | :13:21. | :13:22. | |
Scaramucci obviously was doing all of the time. So I think Bannon has | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
hopes of survival but how he will get along with the new Chief of | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
Staff and the various other officials, it remains to be seen. | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
You wouldn't want to predict longevity for anybody in the White | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
House. You would have to say Kelly is looking pretty indispensable at | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
the moment because Trump, it would be embarrassing to lose Kelly in the | :13:46. | :13:48. | |
next three months and the way they were talking about him at the press | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
briefing this evening as having full authority, new structure and | :13:53. | :13:55. | |
discipline, everybody in the White House is reporting to Kelly, you | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
have to think now, Trump is trusting this guy. I would remain sceptical. | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
I think Trump will do what he wants to do. I think it places limits | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
around Trump's behaviour and probably the most important is it | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
will make it very difficult for Trump to fire the independent | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
counsel Robert Muller. I think Kelly would probably lay down in front of | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
a truck on that one and Trump would be faced with the choice of | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
embarrassingly losing his new Chief of Staff or going through with what | :14:28. | :14:30. | |
he probably does want to do. Thanks very much. | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
As we reflect on the movie of the moment, Dunkirk, and mark the 100th | :14:35. | :14:46. | |
anniversary of Passchendaele, it is possible to be optimist being about | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
the state of the world or pessimistic. Optimist being because | :14:51. | :14:53. | |
we haven't been involved in a war on the scale of the first and Second | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
World War in 70 years. But eeconomists use that term great | :15:00. | :15:02. | |
moderation just before the financial crash. The quiet can foretell the | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
storm. And it is hard not to look at world affairs right now without | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
concern, whether it is the conflicts that have erupted in the Middle | :15:11. | :15:13. | |
East, the deteriorating relationship between Russia and the US or the | :15:14. | :15:20. | |
potential for a North Korean ballistic missile to strike the | :15:21. | :15:21. | |
West. Is it time to worry? Passchendaele from the sky after the | :15:22. | :15:36. | |
battles of the First World War. Just 80 miles from Britain, a scene of | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
total devastation of the kind that most of us have not experienced. | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
Today, the shape of Passchendaele is unmistakably the same yet it is now | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
just a pleasant Belgian village, proof that the world can escape the | :15:50. | :15:55. | |
darkness of the past. And yet new darkness can come, the world today | :15:56. | :16:00. | |
is undeniably in a volatile and brutal phase. We will handle North | :16:01. | :16:04. | |
Korea. We will be able to handle them. | :16:05. | :16:21. | |
It will be handled. We handle everything. Thank you very much. No | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
one has worked out a way to deal with the clear and present danger of | :16:27. | :16:28. | |
North Korea, a country led by a single-minded dictator with nuclear | :16:29. | :16:30. | |
weapons. This weekend he tested another ballistic missile, fired it | :16:31. | :16:33. | |
in the direction of Japan and rails against the US. Is this the most | :16:34. | :16:35. | |
foreseeable way to imagine a million or more people dying right now? | :16:36. | :16:38. | |
Making for an unstable backdrop, the jostling of global powers. Trump | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
blames China for not dealing with North Korea and has new problems | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
with Putin. Each leader has something to prove, the world | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
struggles for an equilibrium. Vice President Mike Pence was in Estonia | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
today. No threat looms larger in the Baltic states than the spectre of | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
aggression from your unpredictable neighbour to the east. The Cold War | :17:01. | :17:08. | |
was of course, in the sense simple. What do I mean by that? That you had | :17:09. | :17:14. | |
two great blocks, the Warsaw Pact on the one hand, Nato on the other, | :17:15. | :17:21. | |
where it that compare to today? It is not so simple, it is much more | :17:22. | :17:26. | |
complicated, there are more actors on this difficult stage and | :17:27. | :17:37. | |
therefore, it is, in my view, more difficult to handle. For those in | :17:38. | :17:40. | |
Syria, they're probably already feels like the end of days, conflict | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
that has already lasted longer than world Wars one and two. The medieval | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
violence of so-called Islamic State adds to the sense of desperation. It | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
cannot kill on a nuclear scale but has taken terror well beyond its own | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
territory. And Syria is just one conflict in the region that is | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
fraught with explosive potential. First you have to know what happens | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
when an atomic bomb explodes. Of course in the nuclear age, there | :18:09. | :18:11. | |
have been periods of Basra we have felt that the end is nigh. Usually | :18:12. | :18:16. | |
human beings are capable of stepping from the brink, but the danger is | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
one thing leads to another as it did before the First World War. One | :18:22. | :18:27. | |
problem triggers the next, reaction leads to overreaction. Care must be | :18:28. | :18:34. | |
to ensure that what is relatively minor does not either by some intend | :18:35. | :18:43. | |
some wire or by accident grow into something more serious and more | :18:44. | :18:52. | |
threatening. A BBC war game exercise last year managed to arrive at a | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
scenario of tactical nuclear weapons being used in Europe. The Americans | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
have decided not to take our advice and have used a tactical nuclear | :19:02. | :19:07. | |
weapons to take out a target in Russia. It would be nice to dismiss | :19:08. | :19:15. | |
such outcomes as television talk are not the real world but the worrying | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
thing is that the years of peace in Europe have been historical | :19:21. | :19:28. | |
exception, rather than the norm. Let's reflect on how serious the | :19:29. | :19:31. | |
threat to the west and the world are. | :19:32. | :19:33. | |
James Jeffrey was deputy National Security Advisor and a US | :19:34. | :19:35. | |
ambassador to Iraq - he's in Washington. | :19:36. | :19:37. | |
Brian Lord was the deputy director of GCHQ, responsible for | :19:38. | :19:39. | |
Intelligence and Cyber Operations - he's in Bristol. | :19:40. | :19:41. | |
And Patricia Lewis is a nuclear physicist and arms control expert | :19:42. | :19:44. | |
who is the Research Director for International Security | :19:45. | :19:46. | |
I would like to start at Patricia maybe you can help me, do you the | :19:47. | :20:00. | |
possibility of what one might call a big war between major powers in the | :20:01. | :20:04. | |
world in the next 20 or 30 years? Yes I do. I see it as a possibility | :20:05. | :20:09. | |
if we do not learn the lessons of history. So, the bad news is that it | :20:10. | :20:16. | |
is very complicated and there are two major hotspots and there are | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
other smaller ones. We do not quite, we never know what will Tibet off, | :20:21. | :20:25. | |
but the good news is that we can learn from history. We do know what | :20:26. | :20:28. | |
has happened before and we have learned a great deals of the end of | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
the Second World War, the UN, all of its structures has helped us prevent | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
conflict and we know almost everything we need to prevent | :20:37. | :20:38. | |
conflict, it is a question of having the political | :20:39. | :20:59. | |
will to do it. To people like me who feel it is inconceivable because we | :21:00. | :21:02. | |
are too sensible now to do these silly things and let one thing led | :21:03. | :21:05. | |
to another and trigger a war, what we would surely sit down and sorted | :21:06. | :21:08. | |
out... That is not what human beings do. If you look through history, | :21:09. | :21:10. | |
people make mistakes, people get angry, they often misinterpret, we | :21:11. | :21:12. | |
have seen many occasions were something has happened and there has | :21:13. | :21:14. | |
been an overreaction. James Jeffrey, do you basically agree with Patricia | :21:15. | :21:16. | |
said there? Only partially. The reason we have not seen a return to | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
the first half of the awful 20th century is that during an after | :21:22. | :21:28. | |
World War II, the United States and the European partners added | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
countries around the world and have created a global collective security | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
system with financial trade, role of law and other aspects but at the | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
centre is collective security. By won the Cold War and was dealing | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
with regional problems such as Saddam Hussein since 1989 but now we | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
see the rise of Russia and China who want to challenge that system and to | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
some degree are cooperating with the regional actors such as North Korea | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
and Iran. The whole complex of threats taken together is quite | :22:01. | :22:12. | |
formidable. You are saying that you would link the different things, the | :22:13. | :22:14. | |
North Korea situation, the jostling between the big powers, these are | :22:15. | :22:17. | |
all linked in your view? Not a conspiracy against the West but that | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
people are organising with a mind to weakening the West? There is no | :22:22. | :22:27. | |
overall battleplan that Beijing and Moscow have agreed on, they have a | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
common ally of interest in undercutting the American security | :22:33. | :22:35. | |
system because it stands in the way of their alternative system which | :22:36. | :22:39. | |
you people in Europe understand from the 19th century, it is great | :22:40. | :22:42. | |
powers, expanding their influence until they run into another great | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
power. That is what led to the First World War and the Second World War. | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
We have tried over the past 70 years defied a different way forward and | :22:53. | :22:55. | |
they are challenging that and even though they do not coordinate on | :22:56. | :23:02. | |
every issue, there a high degree of commonality and the UN votes to | :23:03. | :23:06. | |
block action against North Korea and Iran, and they challenge it. Brian | :23:07. | :23:13. | |
Lord, tell us if you believe a big war is a possibility or whether | :23:14. | :23:18. | |
you're on the more optimistic and? I think a single big war is highly | :23:19. | :23:24. | |
unlikely but what we are seeing, I would agree that what we are seeing | :23:25. | :23:27. | |
is a challenge of traditional western approach to the world. All | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
we also are living through, is a world where the rigidity of Borders | :23:33. | :23:38. | |
is being broken down by technology, trade communication, the | :23:39. | :23:39. | |
availability of information is now no longer as controlled as it was. | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
We have an increasingly bellicose North Korea and Russia plane its | :23:46. | :23:51. | |
usual geopolitical games, whether it is a virtual real space or | :23:52. | :23:54. | |
cyberspace and we have a White House which is perceived from the outside | :23:55. | :23:57. | |
to be unusual and certainly unpredictable. What I would say is | :23:58. | :24:02. | |
the risk of a miscalculation is extremely real and a miscalculation | :24:03. | :24:07. | |
is in effect will have the same effect as a real conflict. Patricia | :24:08. | :24:13. | |
made that point as well. War may itself be very different and as an | :24:14. | :24:18. | |
expert on cyber security, one of the things we need to think about is not | :24:19. | :24:21. | |
thinking what it looks like an 20th-century terms but potentially, | :24:22. | :24:28. | |
is cyber the form it takes on the 21st-century? I don't think it is as | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
binary as that, you have the ability for states to be able to use | :24:33. | :24:38. | |
activity online to be able to exert geopolitical effect all the way | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
through to destructive effect. One of the areas for miscalculation is | :24:44. | :24:46. | |
we are looking at an area of the world where there are still no rules | :24:47. | :24:49. | |
of engagement, the ability to confuse is very high and the ability | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
to hide or deceive and put whose ever is' she want an activity is | :24:55. | :25:07. | |
very high understanding by a public of what a cyber attack means, the | :25:08. | :25:10. | |
lack of understanding of the capability of the reserve -- | :25:11. | :25:12. | |
adversary is very different. It all plays into this confusion which if | :25:13. | :25:14. | |
people want to make a miscalculation or want to give the impression of | :25:15. | :25:16. | |
making a miscalculation, just continues to increase the risk. | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
Patricia, to me it would look like North Korea is in a different | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
category to all the other risks, more than the Middle East, because | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
North Korea, there is an unaccountable dictator, it is not | :25:29. | :25:31. | |
like the former Soviet Union, there is not a system that he is a part | :25:32. | :25:33. | |
of, it is just what he wants to has got nuclear weapons and | :25:34. | :25:59. | |
ballistic missiles. He is not the only one with nuclear weapons and he | :26:00. | :26:02. | |
does not have them yet, he has ballistic missiles but as far as we | :26:03. | :26:05. | |
are all aware, he is not at the point where he can make the missiles | :26:06. | :26:08. | |
with a warhead. There is still time to play for. North Korea is | :26:09. | :26:10. | |
different as a country, it does not have any friends and it has many | :26:11. | :26:13. | |
enemies. It is very unpredictable and we cannot understand what they | :26:14. | :26:15. | |
will do. In the Middle East it is unpredictable, however and we have | :26:16. | :26:18. | |
the West coming up against Russia, front to front, right in the middle | :26:19. | :26:21. | |
of a battle space. As Brian said, it has got cyberspace in there as well, | :26:22. | :26:23. | |
another set of tools. We have turmoil in the Middle East in the | :26:24. | :26:26. | |
Gulf, we have Israel still, do not forget that, it is very potent. All | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
of these could be the Serbia is, or the triggers. James Jeffrey, I am | :26:31. | :26:35. | |
interested in your take on North Korea, do you see it as slightly | :26:36. | :26:38. | |
different to some of the other risks, because the potential for | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
massive harm is there, if they get the final formula for nuclear | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
weapons. It is the most immediate crisis and it is very very dangerous | :26:50. | :26:52. | |
because it does have nuclear weapons and it can at least strike with | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
nuclear and commercial weapons the civilian population of South Korea. | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
Yes, it is special. On the other hand, it is not something in and of | :27:03. | :27:08. | |
itself, like Saddam Hussein in Iraq or Serbia 1015 years ago, this is a | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
country that is enabled by China. I disagree it does not have friends, | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
its long-range missiles are now mobile, which is very threatening | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
because they are on Chinese trucks. Those trucks are not something they | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
have 30 years ago, they are recent additions, the Chinese are enabling | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
in many different ways, the North Koreans basically to use them as a | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
chess piece against the United States and the western Pacific and | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
that is a real danger to us and to the entire region including | :27:40. | :27:42. | |
ultimately the Chinese. We need to leave it there. Thank you very much | :27:43. | :27:45. | |
indeed. Plenty to worry about. Anita Roddick found international | :27:46. | :27:55. | |
fame as the founder of the Body Shop She before anyone spotted the | :27:56. | :27:58. | |
potential of the ethical economy - business promoting itself as having | :27:59. | :28:02. | |
a mission bigger than making money, She built the company | :28:03. | :28:05. | |
in an unconventional way, and her character played a huge | :28:06. | :28:07. | |
part in its success. But she died a decade ago far | :28:08. | :28:09. | |
too young, having been She had contracted it decades | :28:10. | :28:12. | |
earlier from a contaminated blood transfusion received | :28:13. | :28:15. | |
while giving birth. Well, a couple of weeks ago, | :28:16. | :28:16. | |
the government announced that there will be an inquiry | :28:17. | :28:18. | |
into the scandal of contaminated transfusions, an issue | :28:19. | :28:21. | |
about which the daughter of Anita Roddick | :28:22. | :28:23. | |
understandably feels strongly. Sam Roddick has been | :28:24. | :28:25. | |
speaking to our special You know what, she was one in a | :28:26. | :28:43. | |
million. She challenged the unchallengeable. She challenged the | :28:44. | :28:46. | |
stock market, she challenged business, she challenged her peers | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
and the way business was done and she did it in a way that was braver | :28:51. | :28:57. | |
than whatever is in existence today. Welcome to the video... For 30 years | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
Anita Roddick did not realise she had unknowingly contracted hepatitis | :29:03. | :29:05. | |
C from contaminated blood. Her daughter remembers the moment her | :29:06. | :29:09. | |
mother broke the news and explained the cause was the blood transfusion | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
she received after complications giving birth to Sam. Got through the | :29:14. | :29:20. | |
transfusion when I was born. And you know I could really hear the | :29:21. | :29:25. | |
vulnerability in her voice. Because my mum really feared death. So she | :29:26. | :29:31. | |
had a phrase which was, isn't it amazing, Sam, every year you pass | :29:32. | :29:34. | |
the date of your death and you don't know it. Thousands of people | :29:35. | :29:41. | |
contracted hepatitis C, some got HIV and we know about that now. To step | :29:42. | :29:45. | |
back from it and think, she went into hospital to have a baby and she | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
came out with this disease and did not know about a that time. For her | :29:50. | :29:56. | |
to be able to contract that during something that was such a kind of, | :29:57. | :30:03. | |
and normal procedure, is really sad. The strange thing is, even I felt | :30:04. | :30:10. | |
responsible, like I, somehow, that sense, it is ironic, because you | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
think as a baby, I can protect my mum, she was going on, she was | :30:17. | :30:19. | |
pregnant with me. There is that first level of irrevocable, | :30:20. | :30:28. | |
unconscious guilt, it is just ridiculous, but it still exist. And | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
if she had found out earlier, what would that have meant? She could | :30:34. | :30:40. | |
have had a treatment, really early, possibly at the time, but she could | :30:41. | :30:43. | |
not have it because of her high blood trash -- blood pressure, she | :30:44. | :30:49. | |
could not get a liver transplant, she was literally deteriorating. She | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
was exhausted. She could have got a lot of medical assistance. Good she | :30:54. | :30:58. | |
have survived much longer? I think she could have. Who do you blame? | :30:59. | :31:06. | |
Personally. I love the NHS, I actually think it is the backbone of | :31:07. | :31:11. | |
British society, I would fight for the NHS the whole time. The people | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
who were making money out of this large pharmaceutical corporations, | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
that is who I kind of they are the ones, who really violated good | :31:22. | :31:23. | |
governance. Did your family think about suing? | :31:24. | :31:36. | |
No, we aren't people who sue. The best thing we can serve is by | :31:37. | :31:40. | |
highlighting this issue and appealing for people to come forward | :31:41. | :31:43. | |
if they've needed or had the procedure of a blood transfusion | :31:44. | :31:48. | |
during the dates that have been highlighted and to get tested. I | :31:49. | :31:53. | |
personally think that anybody who has been affected who doesn't come | :31:54. | :31:57. | |
from my financial background should sue. There has been a huge law suit | :31:58. | :32:07. | |
in America of Bayer and a number of corporations held responsible. I | :32:08. | :32:10. | |
mean, in the billions got paid out. The Prime Minister announced an | :32:11. | :32:13. | |
inquiry recently into this, what was your reaction to that? There needs | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
to be a true independent inquiry. I think it is now about stepping | :32:19. | :32:23. | |
forward and really trying to put the pieces together about why and how | :32:24. | :32:30. | |
this occurred and those responsible should be held accountable. I | :32:31. | :32:33. | |
definitely believe when you actually look at the significant amount of | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
contaminated blood, it seems impossible for there not to be an | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
enormous number of people that this touches. It must have been | :32:42. | :32:44. | |
incredibly painful to watch your mother deteriorate. Yeah, it was | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
incredibly painful. It was incredibly painful to see somebody | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
so powerful, so effective, so energetic, somebody who has a lust | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
for life really have to face her limitations at a time where it was | :33:01. | :33:06. | |
cut short. Like, you know, our family had a huge loss. But the | :33:07. | :33:10. | |
world had a huge loss too. She was the first company to open up a | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
creche in her factory, so people could breast-feed and continue on | :33:15. | :33:17. | |
caring for their children during lunch time. I think that was, shows | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
how she loved her workforce and wanted to create a humane | :33:23. | :33:28. | |
environment. The fact that she changed EU law and got the Anirban | :33:29. | :33:35. | |
of animal testing -- got the ban of animal testing in the EU showed how | :33:36. | :33:39. | |
complished she was when she put her mind to do. All her campaigns were | :33:40. | :33:43. | |
phenomenal, the recycling, the sourcing. She was the first person | :33:44. | :33:49. | |
to take Fairtrade out of the charity sector and put it into the | :33:50. | :33:51. | |
commercial environment. You don't seem to be either bitter or angry, | :33:52. | :33:56. | |
but maybe that's just... I'm not angry. I'm sad. There's bitterness | :33:57. | :34:02. | |
which will eat at your own soul. A part of my utilising my anger is by | :34:03. | :34:08. | |
being available to highlight this issue and trying to encourage and | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
support people to make those accountable be accountable. That's a | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
really healthy way to channel your, my anger any way. Presumably you | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
miss her every day, do you? Oh, yeah, I miss her every day. | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
The directors of the collapsed Kids Company - including | :34:29. | :34:31. | |
Camilla Batmangelidge and Alan Yentob - have been told | :34:32. | :34:34. | |
that they face proceedings to bar them from serving | :34:35. | :34:36. | |
Any such disqualification does have to be tested in the courts. | :34:37. | :34:42. | |
Chris Cook broke the story of problems at Kids Company, | :34:43. | :34:45. | |
What did we learn exactly today. We know that the eight final directors | :34:46. | :34:55. | |
at kids company, plus Camilla Batmangelidge, who wasn't director | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
at the time, will be all considered culpable for the collapse of the | :35:00. | :35:02. | |
charity and way it was run. They face between two-and-a-half and six | :35:03. | :35:07. | |
years, if the process goes through, disqualified from being able to hold | :35:08. | :35:10. | |
offices of responsibility in relation to companies. It's quite a | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
serious process. If they get someone to act on their behalf, that person | :35:16. | :35:22. | |
can get disqualified. It reflects the serious problems at the charity. | :35:23. | :35:25. | |
If you look down the list of things you can be disqualified for, there | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
are a few things you can tick off. Terrible record keeping. They | :35:30. | :35:36. | |
claimed to have 15,000 clients. We still only have records of around | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
2,000. They used to run what they referred to as the bully strategy, | :35:42. | :35:47. | |
telling people if you don't put us money we'll collapse and what will | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
happen to the children. The gap between the trading while insolvent, | :35:53. | :35:55. | |
which gets you disqualified is pretty thin. Is it normal for | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
Charity Trustees or directors to be told they can't run companies? Is it | :36:01. | :36:04. | |
fair take someone running a charity and apply this sanction? If we want | :36:05. | :36:07. | |
charities to have real responsibility it probably is fair. | :36:08. | :36:10. | |
You can't have a situation where people are allowed to do this as a | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
hobby job and it has no consequences. The charities do | :36:15. | :36:17. | |
really matter. You think large charities like kids company, which | :36:18. | :36:21. | |
got ?47 million of public money, this is not a trivial thing. The | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
role it played in people's lives isn't trivial. The trustees have to | :36:26. | :36:28. | |
take it seriously. Thank you very much. | :36:29. | :36:30. | |
Is it right that details of the sexual relations of Charles | :36:31. | :36:33. | |
Channel 4 is controversially poised to play recordings | :36:34. | :36:36. | |
of Diana talking in detail about the breakdown of her marriage | :36:37. | :36:40. | |
Diana was preparing for her interview on Panorama, | :36:41. | :36:46. | |
but the tapes go further than the programme itself. | :36:47. | :36:48. | |
But is Diana entitled to some kind of privacy in death, | :36:49. | :36:51. | |
of a kind that she was rarely accorded in life? | :36:52. | :36:54. | |
With me now are the historian and biographer, Tracy Borman, | :36:55. | :36:57. | |
and the Guardian columnist Dawn Foster. | :36:58. | :37:01. | |
I think you think Channel 4 are right to basically show these tapes | :37:02. | :37:07. | |
and give us the full story. Why do you think so? I think first of all, | :37:08. | :37:11. | |
there's a really huge public interest in Diana. We saw that in | :37:12. | :37:17. | |
19le 7. -- 1987. We see it now. People are fascinated by her, by | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
what happened to her in life and also, exactly how different she was | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
to the Royals. I think for me and many other people she felt stage | :37:27. | :37:33. | |
managed in life. She felt really cloistered and bound by the Royal | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
Family. This gives us a chance to learn more about her and what she | :37:38. | :37:42. | |
maybe would like to have said, if she hadn't been in such a - Are | :37:43. | :37:46. | |
people trying to stop Channel 4 doing it, are they the ones trying | :37:47. | :37:51. | |
to control the media? Or trying to control Diana, or does it matter | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
what Diana thought would happen to these tapes when she recorded them | :37:56. | :37:58. | |
or what she wanted at the time? I think it's very difficult to say | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
what she may have wanted to be put out there. In death obviously we | :38:04. | :38:08. | |
have a huge interest in her. Equally, there's so much we don't | :38:09. | :38:11. | |
know about her that maybe people want to know. I think the fact she | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
was speaking to somebody else about it, preparing for Panorama and | :38:16. | :38:18. | |
clearly wanted to get some of this out there, is maybe a hint that she | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
wanted more of her personal life out there. Let's be honest, NBC have | :38:23. | :38:27. | |
shown a lot of this in the States. You can track it down if you want | :38:28. | :38:32. | |
to. It's not quite as unknown as it might be. Do you see any historical | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
significance or anything that we'll learn from watching this Channel 4 | :38:38. | :38:41. | |
programme? As Dawn said, there isn't much new in terms of revelations. | :38:42. | :38:47. | |
But I think the point is that they weren't necessarily intended for | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
broadcast. I do think that it's inappropriate. Certainly when you | :38:52. | :38:55. | |
look at them as historical documents, the National Archives | :38:56. | :38:59. | |
wouldn't release anything unless sensitivity checks had been carried | :39:00. | :39:03. | |
out, including the effect on living persons. Of course, there are still | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
some significant others of Diana who this will affect deeply I think. | :39:09. | :39:12. | |
You're thinking of the children or Charles? I'm thinking of the | :39:13. | :39:18. | |
children more. I understand that there was talk of making a | :39:19. | :39:21. | |
documentary of this ten years ago, it was Sheffield. The BBC -- | :39:22. | :39:27. | |
shelved. The BBC was going to look at this and then backed out when | :39:28. | :39:30. | |
they saw the minefield it was. Does it matter to you the brother, the | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
kids, basically everybody who does speak for Diana, who might say they | :39:35. | :39:39. | |
do because they're nuclear family, not royalty, if they say we don't | :39:40. | :39:42. | |
want this stuff aired in public, does that not matter in I think | :39:43. | :39:48. | |
public interest is key here. The family themselves can protect | :39:49. | :39:51. | |
themselves from it. Equally, when I was at university, I read James | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
Joyce's salacious letters to his wife. He probably didn't want them | :39:56. | :39:58. | |
to be in the public domain. But they are. They form part of what we think | :39:59. | :40:03. | |
of Joyce as a character and a public figure. Often, what we don't expect | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
to be in the public domain will be afterwards because there is so much | :40:08. | :40:10. | |
public interest in people. Is there a time theme here? The national | :40:11. | :40:17. | |
archive say there's a 30-year rule. But only when sensitivity checks are | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
carried out. We have more and more restrictive, I mean when you look at | :40:22. | :40:24. | |
the history of private life, the Tudors for example, they laid it all | :40:25. | :40:30. | |
bare and gladly so. They wanted to boast about their marital relations. | :40:31. | :40:33. | |
Like Scaramucci, say what we think. Very topical. They would have wanted | :40:34. | :40:38. | |
their subjects to take an interest in their love lives in all forms. I | :40:39. | :40:44. | |
wonder whether we, you keep saying public interest, it's the | :40:45. | :40:47. | |
distinction between interest of the public and the public interest isn't | :40:48. | :40:53. | |
it and whether there is a public interest in this. For many Diana | :40:54. | :41:03. | |
symbolised a sea change in British history. Moving to a more open, you | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
know tied in with the Advent of Blair. People are very interested in | :41:08. | :41:10. | |
how she stood at the crux of history. We're going to leave it | :41:11. | :41:14. | |
there, thank you very much for coming in. | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
That's all for tonight. Let's finish by returning to Passchendaele. We | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
saw a little earlier, we end with a closer up and sometimes gruesome | :41:23. | :41:26. | |
look at what that battlefield really looked like in the summer and Autumn | :41:27. | :41:31. | |
of 1917. The pictures are accompanied by the firemen of the | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
town of Ypres sounding the Last Post. Good night. | :41:36. | :42:27. | |
Hello. Get ready for more heavy showers across the UK tomorrow. Some | :42:28. | :42:33. | |
places that stayed dry today will not tomorrow. The showers will | :42:34. | :42:36. | |
become more widespread as | :42:37. | :42:38. |