03/08/2017 Newsnight


03/08/2017

Stories include comments made by a senior judge on mental health support. Plus women's sport, BoE's Brexit forecast and Rwanda in focus. With Evan Davis.


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Transcript


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Guilty: the top family court judge hands out an excoriating criticism

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of mental health support for the young.

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The particular case concerns a suicidal 17-year-old,

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but it's a worrying sign that many others in a dangerous

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And when they leave hospital, when they're at their greatest need,

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at their highest risk of suicide, they don't get the support

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We'll ask if the judge is right, and if so,

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Despite the prospect of Brexit, or because of it.

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Britain's economy is sluggish according to the Bank of England.

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Is it right to be so pessimistic about the prospects?

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We may have lost tonight, but everyone's talking

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The amazing hockey win in Rio, the women's cricket last week,

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women's rugby just off to the World Cup.

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We feel that this is a watershed moment for women's sport, really.

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Every now and then, a judge wants to use the power of the bench

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to make a point that perhaps goes well beyond the specifics

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Such is the case today, with Sir James Munby,

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the president of Family Division of the High Court who uttered

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scathing words about the treatment options for a suicidal 17

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If this is the best we can do for her, and others in similar

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crisis, what right do we, what right do the system,

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our society and indeed the state itself, have

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The honest answer to this question should make us

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The girl has been in custody for six months, but is due to be released

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Staff at the unit where she is being held think she will be dead

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within days of release if supervised care is not found,

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but no appropriate secure place is available.

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What right does our society have to call itself civilised given the poor

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mental health services we provide for young people, that is the

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question posed by a senior judge, reflecting on the fate of a

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17-year-old woman known only as X who needs a place in the so-called

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low secure psychiatric unit, a place that so far can't be found. Sir

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James Munby's criticism of the government is unusually fierce and

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he had it sent to the relevant secretaries of state, but facing a

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case where a young woman was being let down by our mental health

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services he felt he had no choice but to speak truth to power.

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Sir James Munby said restraints have to be used on 117 occasions and

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there have been 102 significant acts of self harm or

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NHS England hopes tonight that a suitable care package might be found

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at one of three facilities, but there is a general problem with

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mental health care for young people. The young people and parents tell us

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that they have to navigate the gaps in the system themselves and they

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have to wait ridiculously long periods of time before receiving

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that treatment, that might even be six months. There is a particular

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problem for people with eating disorders. Some young people are

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told their weight is too high to receive care right now, and when

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they leave hospital at a time of great need them when they are at

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their highest risk of suicidal but they don't get the support they

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need. A royal college psych I survey confirms this picture. 89% said they

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knew of young people being placed into care which is not local, a

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challenge from local government and families, and 62% reported young

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people being put into inappropriate settings like adult wards or police

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cells and 14% reported patients had attempted suicide while awaiting a

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bed. Respondents also save money has been a problem. The government

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pledged new money to transform children's mental health and that is

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welcome but our research last year showed that money was not reaching

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the front line and in fact half of all commissioners were spending it

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on other priorities. There is a particular problem around young

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adults who have left the young People's system and joined the back

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the adult queue. When you turn 18, literally at midnight you are taken

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off their system and not given any further support and to be put into

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adult services counselling you have two self referred to a different

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system. And there are new queues? Yes, eight months waiting list for

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them Harriet was admitted to and adult ward which struggled with her

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needs. I saw the age gap between me and the other patients can quite

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some distance, 25 years, I would say, and also the gender difference,

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I was in a ward with around 12 men and three other women. It was gender

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inappropriate and there were no appropriate activities. Harriet was

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diagnosed with bipolar disorder and she said there was a lack of nurses.

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There were not enough of them to look after us individually and when

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I was attacked by a schizophrenic man on Christmas Day it was another

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patient who saved me, if you like, before the shift nurse. And there

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weren't many psychiatrists question up I waited 11 days before I was

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seen by a psychiatrist and when they see you, they see you for ten

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minutes. Mental health has had a higher profile in recent years but

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this is still an area where there are serious systematic problems for

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children and adults alike. Interestingly, last week,

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the New York Times carried a long item on mental health provision

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in England, describing it as "the world's most ambitious

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effort to treat common mental illnesses", implying that the rest

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of the world is watching Well, I am joined by the former

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Minister for Children and Families Tim Loughton and mental

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health activist Nikki Mattocks. You had many problems going right

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back to childhood. We have heard one case in that film, how bad was it

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for you? I became ill when I was about 14 and I struggled to get the

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help I needed, and I was going to A repeatedly in a state of crisis,

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I was taking overdoses and self harming and I was struggling with my

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mental health. I was desperately trying to get help and my family was

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on my behalf, as welcomer but there was a massive barrier and I could

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access the help I needed -- the help. Until I took numerous

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overdoses and I was finally listened to for the what happens when you go

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to A? What is the spirits? You go there, the staff are generally

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physical health trained and they don't understand the support and the

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support you get is it necessarily helpful as you get judged a lot, but

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you get seen by someone. I sometimes waited 18 hours, sitting there not

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knowing what was going on, it is not appropriate for a person to go there

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in crisis but that is where often we are sent to go. Did you ever get a

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regular, stable consistent therapy of some kind that you needed? I did

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manage, but from the start when I asked for help until the time when I

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got the help I needed it took a long time, far too long. If more focus

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was put into preventative services rather than crisis services it would

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never have got to the point where it did. Tim is nodding his head. You

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are trading to be a mental health nurse, so you see the service from

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the other side stop better or worse now? I think people are trying their

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best but because the resources are not bear from the government and

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things, it is a massive struggle for everyone. Thanks for that. Tim, do

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you agree with what the judge had to say today? I do, I'm afraid. Sir

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James Munby is a senior and well respected judge, and am afraid what

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he said is nothing new. And it is one aspect of the shortcomings of

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mental health services in this country especially for children and

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young people and vulnerable people, and I agree with everything that was

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just said, and it is right that she has come forward and will speak up

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about it. This is a severe wake-up call we have got do much better for

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children in our country who are suffering these kind of mental

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illnesses. What will happen to X, the woman involved in the case the

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judge was talking about. He wants her in a low secure unit where she

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is not held to stop other -- attacking other people, although she

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is clearly a danger to herself, but there aren't many beds. What is

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going to happen if there isn't one of those beds? It looks as though in

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this case NHS England has come forward and identified the places

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that might be able to offer her a bed when she needs it and hopefully

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offer her the support and care and protection that she needs for as

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long as it takes, but this is a high-profile problem today but I'm

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afraid it is something which happens all too often, there is a shortage

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of beds generally certainly at the severe end. The shortage of beds for

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those people who need help because they are a harm to themselves

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potentially but also in some cases they are a harm to others if they

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are out at large. But also we have got to do much better as was just

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so, not just crisis management, but early detection and prevention and

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that means getting more staff in at an earlier stage, early detection

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and earlier support an effective support and this is not happening in

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too many cases at the moment. Did you see the piece in the New York

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Times last week, it was a long piece about England as this pioneering

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nation in mental health, is that right? Are we doing something? It

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read a bit strangely with what we know about the treatment here. I did

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not see that article, and I was surprised by it when you said it,

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but there are some very good services in this country in all

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parts of the NHS and in mental health, as well, but the problem is

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there is not enough of it. To give the government credit, more money

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has been an ounce, ?1.3 billion and earlier this week Jeremy Hunt said

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we will be recruiting 23,000, a lot of people, and that will be a big

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challenge in mental health in the next five years, with the five-year

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plan. I want to see that come to fruition, but the problem is, there

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are too many young people now who is mental illness is not picked up

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early enough. Half of people who have a mental illness problem, that

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will develop before they reach the age of 14, and if you don't do

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something about it early, then of course it festers and continues and

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becomes a much worse illness later on. We have got to detect early and

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have the people there who can offer all sorts of appropriate therapies

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inappropriate settings and quickly, and it would be a national scandal

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if we expected people who have symptoms of cancer to wait six or 12

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months before they got specialist treatment and why should it be

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anything different for someone suffering a mental illness. Everyone

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agrees with this, but there is a parallel to what we were discussing

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last night regarding prisons, and we had a Tory former minister saying

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last night we have not dealt with prisons properly, and now you are

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saying we have not dealt with children's mental health services

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properly, so what is the country supposed to do? You have been in

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government for the last seven years. What is the countrymen to do? We

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look to you to get this right -- the country meant to do. We don't need

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to make this a particle -- party political issue, because we have not

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got this right for many years and this case is not a one-off case by

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any means. The thing that links the interview last night and this one is

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mental health because that is a big problem in prisons. There is a

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mindset still amongst NHS management that mental health is a secondary

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issue and is not a priority and for all the good words about parity of

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esteem it is not there in practice and that is why the extra money that

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is going into mental health, not enough, but at least it is extra

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money going into mental health, is not getting to the sharp end where

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is needed and it is being diverted into repairing the hospital roof and

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other crisis management in other parts of the health service and that

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has got to stop. We need proper practitioners giving the service at

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the sharp end when it is needed. Thank you very much to both of you.

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It's never a quiet day in Washington, and in the last hour

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news has broken that the special counsel investigating the Trump

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team's ties to Russia, Robert Mueller, has put together

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a grand jury that has the right to compel people to give evidence.

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John Sopel's here to tell us what this all means.

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Is this a significant development in this special Counsel's actions? Yes,

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it is significant, but let me add a couple of caveats, does not mean

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that any prosecution or indictment is imminent, it doesn't mean that

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there will be any, but a prosecution could not happen without a grand

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jury being sworn in. If you like, it is the next logical step in the

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investigation. That said, as you point out, they will be able to take

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sworn statements from witnesses, subpoena people and documents to the

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investigation, and to the simple question, does this mean the

:15:03.:15:07.

investigation is winding down... Or ramping up...? Only one conclusion,

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it is ramping up. Are the proceedings all in public, the grand

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jury proceedings? Now, a lot of this is going to take place behind closed

:15:18.:15:22.

doors, what will happen is, they are going to follow the evidence

:15:23.:15:27.

wherever it takes them, it means they have great investigative

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powers, they can compel people to give evidence. Speaking about one of

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the first meetings they want to look at is the meeting that Donald Trump

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junior had with the then campaign manager, and Jared Kushner, with the

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Russians, to get dirt on Hillary Clinton. I should say there has been

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some reaction from Donald Trump's legal team, the President's legal

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team have said, the White House favours any that would excel rate

:15:54.:15:56.

the conclusion of this work fairly, the White House is committed to

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fully cooperating with Robert Mueller, that is very conciliatory.

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Will those be the sentiments of Donald Trump tonight? I would guess

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not, I would imagine he is spitting tacks about it!

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The Bank of England didn't raise interest rates today.

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And it also published its latest quarterly inflation report,

:16:20.:16:23.

which gave a somewhat Brexit-sceptic view of the economy.

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The bank's not predicting doom and gloom, but it IS predicting

:16:26.:16:27.

The bank governor didn't use the words "despite Brexit,

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because of Brexit the economy is not doing so well.

:16:33.:16:37.

Three reasons: in the short term, it's all about us, the consumer.

:16:38.:16:40.

We've already been hit by an effective pay cut thanks

:16:41.:16:43.

to a lower exchange rate, pushing up prices.

:16:44.:16:48.

Households looked through Brexit related uncertainties

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as the consequences of sterling's fall have shown up in the shops

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they've cut back on spending, slowing the economy.

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In the medium term, it's about business investment.

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Because if consumers spend less, we'd like companies to spend more.

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they've invested much less aggressively than usual

:17:12.:17:19.

in response to an otherwise very favourable environment.

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less investment now means less productive capacity into the future.

:17:24.:17:27.

Moreover, prolonged low investment will restrain growth in the capital

:17:28.:17:29.

Indeed, if the MPC's current forecast comes to pass,

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the level of investment in 2020 is expected to be 20 points

:17:38.:17:53.

below the level which the MPC had projected just

:17:54.:17:55.

That is the banks expert view, but who knows if they are right,

:17:56.:17:59.

or trapped in a Remainer mindset and sticking to an old script?

:18:00.:18:02.

With me now, Gerard Lyons, one of the most prominent Brexit

:18:03.:18:04.

supporting economists, who has worked or works

:18:05.:18:06.

And Ann Pettifor, who is author of the book "The Production

:18:07.:18:10.

of Money" and a member of Labour's economic advisory committee.

:18:11.:18:14.

Do you agree with my interpretation that the bank is taking a Brexit

:18:15.:18:20.

sceptic view? Certainly, clearly one needs to be realistic, because there

:18:21.:18:24.

are challenges, what struck me today was that in his opening statement,

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the governor was cautious, blamed Brexit for everything, then in the

:18:31.:18:33.

one-hour press conference, in terms of the short-term, he came out with

:18:34.:18:38.

four positives, in my view, if he was balanced, he should have

:18:39.:18:41.

mentioned them at the beginning. Inflation is falling, consumers

:18:42.:18:46.

bending will grow in line with income, therefore there will not be

:18:47.:18:50.

a rise in debt, he said the balance of the economy is going to improve,

:18:51.:18:54.

exports and investment picking up. And also he talked about the fact

:18:55.:18:57.

that the world economy will improve. Why Frankie, even though he was

:18:58.:19:03.

cautious, in the one-hour press conference, you had to squeeze out

:19:04.:19:07.

of ten reasons to be optimistic. Clearly there are challenges, no one

:19:08.:19:14.

denies that. -- well, frankly. The bank has been optimistic for a long

:19:15.:19:17.

time, about wage rights, investment, all kinds of things, and proven

:19:18.:19:24.

wrong. It was pessimistic about Brexit, there was a lot more going

:19:25.:19:28.

to go wrong band did go wrong. This time last year, Mark Carney said,

:19:29.:19:34.

plan is better than no plans. Fully a year later, no plans. -- there was

:19:35.:19:41.

a lot more going to go wrong than did go wrong. Lets remember that one

:19:42.:19:46.

year ago, the Bank of England and the Treasury said that by now, we

:19:47.:19:49.

would have half a mini and people unemployed because of the leave

:19:50.:19:51.

vote, what has happened, unemployment is at a 42 yellow.

:19:52.:19:58.

There are challenges, wages are not picking up, the governor seemed to

:19:59.:20:02.

suggest that was because of Brexit. -- unemployment is at a 42 year low.

:20:03.:20:08.

That is what is scary, the global economy, despite what Gerrit says

:20:09.:20:12.

about the positive aspects, the global economy is weakening.

:20:13.:20:17.

Inflation is falling. Everyone has been warning about rises in

:20:18.:20:20.

inflation, and members of the Bank of England, they are willing to put

:20:21.:20:25.

up interest rates, at a time when the consumer is quite vulnerable. --

:20:26.:20:29.

Gerard. We are very dependent upon consumers. And high levels of debt.

:20:30.:20:36.

I don't think it is half as positive. Is it your view that there

:20:37.:20:43.

is a groupthink, a confirmation bias, some kind of cognitive process

:20:44.:20:48.

that is gripping the economic establishment and the Bank of

:20:49.:20:51.

England in particular? Economic has been gripped by groupthink for ages,

:20:52.:20:55.

when I said the Lawson boom was going to become a bust, I was told I

:20:56.:20:58.

was wrong, I was told I was wrong that if we left the way it is a good

:20:59.:21:03.

thing. There is groupthink. Today what is interesting, over and above

:21:04.:21:07.

groupthink, something and has touched upon, it is about longer

:21:08.:21:10.

term deep-rooted structural problems, what was underlying the

:21:11.:21:16.

bank's pessimism was not Brexit, it was a lack of investment and low

:21:17.:21:21.

productivity. Add Brexit to that, lack of planning, a government that

:21:22.:21:25.

is paranoid, and... They certainly should plan more, no doubt. Do you

:21:26.:21:33.

buy this figure, in 2020, 20% dollar investment, then there would be. --

:21:34.:21:39.

20% lull investments. That is very possible, deep lack of confidence,

:21:40.:21:43.

the big thing that is missing is that the private sector is over

:21:44.:21:47.

indebted, worried, lacking in confidence. -- 20% lower

:21:48.:21:53.

investments. The government should be stepping in but instead, it is

:21:54.:21:58.

opposed to investment, that will not even move the needle. -- proposed.

:21:59.:22:03.

More infrastructure, things like that. The government has to step in

:22:04.:22:07.

because the private sector is so weak, despite interest rates. Do you

:22:08.:22:12.

buy this figure, do you accept that by 2020, investment may be 20%

:22:13.:22:21.

lower. Yes. Today, the governor said, the supply is down to one and

:22:22.:22:24.

three quarters percent, but in the press conference, he said they have

:22:25.:22:27.

been cutting it for the last nine yes, what we need is investment,

:22:28.:22:31.

infrastructure spending and more innovation. The three Is. If we have

:22:32.:22:36.

Brexit and we do it properly, we will not only protect workers'

:22:37.:22:40.

rights, we will have more innovation from the small medium-sized business

:22:41.:22:47.

sector. This is far too delusional, honestly, you cannot... There are

:22:48.:22:51.

challenges, I agree. Brexit is going to be utterly destructive and we

:22:52.:22:55.

have no plan for it, short-term, medium-term, long-term plan, for

:22:56.:23:00.

what will happen to this complex network of relationships, trading

:23:01.:23:02.

relationships we have with European partners, we have no plan, no proper

:23:03.:23:08.

transitional plan. And that is terrifying. And that is why we have

:23:09.:23:12.

low-level is of investment, low-level is... Why we will continue

:23:13.:23:16.

to have... You must accept that Brexit has at least put a lot of

:23:17.:23:20.

company's decisions on hold, so maybe there will be a spurt when...

:23:21.:23:24.

At the moment they are saying, we had better wait and see. A year ago

:23:25.:23:28.

I was on this programme and I thought the economy would do well

:23:29.:23:33.

over the last year, it did do, I called it a Nike swoosh, that there

:23:34.:23:39.

might be an impact on uncertainty, there is a reaction between policy

:23:40.:23:43.

and competence, the most difficult to predict is confidence, if the

:23:44.:23:47.

leaders start to talk us into an unnecessary downturn, then those

:23:48.:23:51.

people, those companies, the ability to spend or not spend, what I'm

:23:52.:23:56.

saying is, we need more balance in the debate, Brexit has challenges

:23:57.:24:01.

but great opportunities. If we have a unplanned Brexit and a weakening

:24:02.:24:05.

economy, that is the worst of all worlds, that is terrifying for most

:24:06.:24:09.

people involved, both in the public and private sector. The debate

:24:10.:24:11.

remains unresolved. Paul Kagame has been the President

:24:12.:24:22.

of Rwanda since 2000, but has had a dominant role

:24:23.:24:24.

in running the country right back to the time

:24:25.:24:27.

of the civil war of the 90s, when his rebels brought

:24:28.:24:29.

an end to the genocide. he faces the voters again tomorrow

:24:30.:24:32.

in a national election. Although pundits have

:24:33.:24:36.

got a lot of electoral predictions wrong recently,

:24:37.:24:41.

no-one has much doubt that Kagame will still be

:24:42.:24:42.

in power after the ballot. For one thing, at the last election

:24:43.:24:45.

in 2010, he got 93 % of the vote. And anyway, three potential

:24:46.:24:48.

opponents were disqualified from standing by the electoral

:24:49.:24:50.

commission there. But Kagame is a complex

:24:51.:24:52.

character, and arouses very

:24:53.:24:53.

different reactions. Here he is speaking

:24:54.:24:54.

in 1999 about the genocide Well, you can imagine,

:24:55.:24:57.

somebody, an orphan, no father, the mother,

:24:58.:24:59.

no sisters, no relatives. We need to get together,

:25:00.:25:01.

we need to understand our history, we need to educate our people

:25:02.:25:15.

how to overcome that, but those who were responsible

:25:16.:25:24.

for the genocide For some, he's just another African

:25:25.:25:26.

dictator, albeit a smooth talker. For others, he's a force

:25:27.:25:29.

for stability despite any flaws. a former aide to President Kagame

:25:30.:25:33.

who is now in exile in Canada. What was it that made you leave?

:25:34.:25:56.

Well, my issue, actually, was more about statistical manipulations, he

:25:57.:26:01.

always wanted... He would basically dictate the percentages that

:26:02.:26:10.

economic growth had achieved. I was always uncomfortable, and I started

:26:11.:26:20.

to oppose him, and that would have been 2009. As we were getting closer

:26:21.:26:26.

to the elections, that we just mentioned, the place started to get

:26:27.:26:32.

a lot more violence... I decided that was not for me. I fled and I

:26:33.:26:37.

went to South Africa. There will be an election tomorrow, you obviously

:26:38.:26:41.

will not be voting, you are in ex-aisle. We are certain he wins, is

:26:42.:26:48.

it a free and fair election? No, it cannot be a fair election because

:26:49.:26:53.

the people who could have challenged him have been blocked from

:26:54.:27:00.

competing. Almost all the political parties are behind him. And he

:27:01.:27:06.

himself announced a few days ago that he will win by 100%. So that is

:27:07.:27:14.

exact to what will happen, the opposition, in early elections, some

:27:15.:27:18.

of the opposition leaders were imprisoned. They remain in prison.

:27:19.:27:26.

One of them was killed. And others have fled into ex-aisle. I would be

:27:27.:27:31.

surprised indeed if he does not get 100%. He seems to have a way with a

:27:32.:27:36.

lot of foreign leaders, Bill Clinton called him one of the great leaders

:27:37.:27:41.

of our time. What is it that you think makes him so impressive to

:27:42.:27:50.

many others? Basically, he has developed a brand about himself, he

:27:51.:28:00.

has branded himself as kind of a equivalent to the premiere of

:28:01.:28:03.

Singapore, developing reminder, and he has argued there is a trade-off.

:28:04.:28:12.

What has to be done now is economic development, human rights and

:28:13.:28:15.

democracy can wait. A lot of people have bought into that. Plus, there

:28:16.:28:23.

was a bit of sympathy, given to the way that the UN moralists abandoned

:28:24.:28:27.

reminder during the genocide. So people have turned a blind eye. --

:28:28.:28:37.

abandoned Rwanda. The price isn't too high, when you look at the total

:28:38.:28:44.

suppression of the population. Despite this economic miracle. The

:28:45.:28:52.

UK aid programme, we give aid to Rwanda and you think it is wrong to

:28:53.:28:57.

do that. Yes, the British aid is the worst age, because basically,

:28:58.:29:03.

Britain dumps taxpayer money into Paul Kagame's budget, and he is the

:29:04.:29:09.

only one that decides what happens. What happens to British aid? You

:29:10.:29:14.

will never know, at least other countries... Yes? I need to move

:29:15.:29:17.

onto Andrew Mitchell, but your point has been well made.

:29:18.:29:21.

And joining me now is former International Development

:29:22.:29:22.

Do you buy this criticism of aid, we were suspending aid, you were the

:29:23.:29:30.

Secretary of State who came in and said, turn on the tap, give him the

:29:31.:29:36.

cash. I suspended it and then restored it, and indeed, it has been

:29:37.:29:39.

restored not as general budget support, David is wrong on that

:29:40.:29:44.

point, but as specific support to agriculture and education. We know

:29:45.:29:48.

that in Rwanda, the quality of the way our money is spent is yielding

:29:49.:29:53.

quite remarkable results, for example, in the last three or four

:29:54.:29:56.

is, Rwanda has managed to lift more than 1 million people out of

:29:57.:30:01.

poverty, remarkable success story. -- in the last three or four years.

:30:02.:30:07.

David says that the statistics have been made up, so we know that from

:30:08.:30:12.

our own statistics. It is followed very carefully by that department,

:30:13.:30:16.

and it is in Rwanda. David says that a lot of people take the view,

:30:17.:30:20.

trample over human rights if you can get the economy right, is that your

:30:21.:30:23.

view of how develop and sometimes work? It is not, because I think we

:30:24.:30:27.

are right to press with reminder that they open up the political

:30:28.:30:31.

space more, open of the media space more. -- with Rwanda. But they have

:30:32.:30:37.

made remarkable progress since this terrible genocide took place and the

:30:38.:30:40.

country was destroyed. The truth is, president Paul Kagame rescued his

:30:41.:30:44.

country while the world looked the other way and has built a stable and

:30:45.:30:49.

strong state, and if you are a waitress, working there tonight, you

:30:50.:30:54.

can walk home safely, for people like that, that is the first and

:30:55.:30:57.

most important human rights, that the terrible violence in Rwanda was

:30:58.:31:02.

ended. Will the election be free and fair? Yes.

:31:03.:31:08.

I suspect he will win, although the numbers will go down because the

:31:09.:31:17.

space has opened up, but the previous elections were marred by

:31:18.:31:19.

violence and that hasn't happened this time for the day last two

:31:20.:31:25.

elections were over 90%, was that a true reflection of public support? I

:31:26.:31:30.

think it is, this is a country that was destroyed by Buydens but he has

:31:31.:31:33.

stopped that and he has built an economy that is strong -- destroyed

:31:34.:31:40.

by violence. We have got to be careful in the West, not judging

:31:41.:31:45.

ways to a Westminster lens, and I say this, although previous

:31:46.:31:49.

elections were marred by elements of violence, this election so far has

:31:50.:31:53.

been entirely peaceful and it has been more peaceful than the British

:31:54.:31:56.

election which took place a few months ago. But the Electoral

:31:57.:32:01.

Commission has banned some of the most credible opponents. There was

:32:02.:32:07.

one opponent who did not have the correct number of supporters on her

:32:08.:32:10.

nomination paper and in Britain, if we stand in an election we have to

:32:11.:32:15.

have a certain number of supporters who are on the register in our

:32:16.:32:18.

constituencies, and she was in breach of that. If I had been in

:32:19.:32:22.

breach of that at the last election I would not STUDIO: -- I would

:32:23.:32:30.

have been struck off the register, as well. I am listening to your

:32:31.:32:36.

critic but I hear these criticisms of the Labour Party regarding

:32:37.:32:42.

Venezuelan politics at the moment, but you seem to be taking a rather

:32:43.:32:49.

ambivalent view of Paul Kagame. Are you starry eye? I have been there

:32:50.:32:57.

before, I will be taking a project there, we know the country very

:32:58.:33:00.

well, and we know what is happening there, and I have not said anything

:33:01.:33:06.

about the Labour Party and Venezuela, but I would say that they

:33:07.:33:11.

are completely different, Rwanada and byes. Rwanda is much better run.

:33:12.:33:17.

Thanks for joining us. So in the women's European

:33:18.:33:22.

football championships tonight, England lost

:33:23.:33:24.

to the Netherlands, 3-0. Sadly failing to make their way

:33:25.:33:27.

to the final of the tournament. The viewing figures for the match

:33:28.:33:31.

are not in yet, obviously, but the audience for Sunday's

:33:32.:33:35.

quarter final game on Channel 4 In fact, that England France game

:33:36.:33:38.

was even watched by a million The money for womens' football may

:33:39.:33:42.

be small, the entire revenue for the tournament is probably

:33:43.:33:46.

a tenth of Neymar's transfer fee, but as everybody keeps saying,

:33:47.:33:49.

there is unprecedented interest Our culture editor, Stephen Smith

:33:50.:33:51.

has jumped on the bandwagon. COMMENTATOR: Three

:33:52.:34:02.

in the penalty area. It was a decisive win

:34:03.:34:04.

for the Lionesses. But alas, for fans of

:34:05.:34:13.

England's women, that turned out to be the nickname

:34:14.:34:15.

of the Dutch team as well as ours. But even though England have been

:34:16.:34:18.

dumped out of the semis, the consolation for the losers

:34:19.:34:24.

is that their run in the tournament has put the game

:34:25.:34:27.

in the spotlight at home. ARCHIVE VOICOVER: Girls

:34:28.:34:35.

will be girls, and as football is a man's game,

:34:36.:34:37.

girls have to play it. And take a look at the way these

:34:38.:34:40.

Darlington girls dress for the game. The women's game hasn't always

:34:41.:34:43.

basked in the unalloyed respect of the men who attended to report

:34:44.:34:46.

on it and administered it. You never saw such fast

:34:47.:34:48.

girls in your life. At least the 10,000

:34:49.:34:51.

spectators think so. Altogether there is

:34:52.:34:52.

a lot of pretty play. Despite the sizeable crowd drawn

:34:53.:34:54.

to this fixture, the FA frowned on women's football

:34:55.:34:57.

for a while as unladylike. I think if you talk to these

:34:58.:34:59.

players, of course they want to earn a living, and so they should,

:35:00.:35:02.

playing the game they love, but what makes them special

:35:03.:35:05.

and what is very visible when you work with them,

:35:06.:35:07.

is they haven't lost the feeling Someone who had to battle through

:35:08.:35:10.

life to be the best you could be. And I think we want that

:35:11.:35:15.

sort of Olympian spirit, Shot-stopping practice

:35:16.:35:17.

for the London Bees, putting in some preseason

:35:18.:35:22.

training this evening. They are semiprofessional

:35:23.:35:25.

players, earning several They are linked to the second

:35:26.:35:26.

division men's side Barnet. The women play to crowds

:35:27.:35:36.

of up to 700 supporters. There is clearly not as much money

:35:37.:35:41.

in the game so you probably have more female players who are just

:35:42.:35:45.

in it for the love of the game. I think there's a few of the girls

:35:46.:35:48.

already who are full-time in the top women's league but I think it needs

:35:49.:35:56.

to progress throughout the top couple of women's leagues for it

:35:57.:36:00.

to really push on and progress. Because if we have our full-time

:36:01.:36:04.

jobs and then we're coming to training until 1030 at night,

:36:05.:36:08.

then we have got to be in our jobs the next day

:36:09.:36:11.

it is quite hard mentally. Are there still misconceptions,

:36:12.:36:15.

things that people say to you that Yes, there will always be people

:36:16.:36:17.

who compare men's and women's football but to be honest

:36:18.:36:23.

they are two completely Yes, I wouldn't compare them,

:36:24.:36:25.

there is different skill sets You don't have to choose to support

:36:26.:36:33.

a men's team or a woman's team. I can imagine some football fans

:36:34.:36:44.

spit died on the Wall St, if it's a choice between a good men's game and

:36:45.:36:48.

a good women's game, I would go for the former -- died in the wall.

:36:49.:36:55.

Football is a game of opinions and everyone is entitled to their

:36:56.:36:57.

opinion and I know everyone who comes to watch a women's game gets

:36:58.:37:02.

full value and more. The ticket prices in the men's game have gone

:37:03.:37:06.

up and up and if you want to take your family and friends to a game it

:37:07.:37:10.

is increasingly more difficult, but you can guarantee value for money

:37:11.:37:14.

when you do come to a women's football game, whether it is

:37:15.:37:18.

international or the national teams. And there is the whistle. Back in

:37:19.:37:25.

the Netherlands, the sad truth for England is that the Dutch were very

:37:26.:37:30.

good value for their win. It wasn't Alan Knight, things did not go our

:37:31.:37:34.

way, and they are a good team. -- it wasn't our night. Tough crowd to

:37:35.:37:40.

play in front of and we are disappointed but it wasn't Alan

:37:41.:37:43.

Knight. The rude health of women's football will not be on the other

:37:44.:37:46.

minds of England's players who are as sick as a parrot tonight.

:37:47.:37:52.

We can have a quick look at the papers, the Financial Times is

:37:53.:37:59.

leading on that Bank of England and Brexit, Mark Carney warning Brexit

:38:00.:38:02.

uncertainty is choking business investment. The Times, NHS must cut

:38:03.:38:11.

waste if it wants more cash. There is a picture of someone who stole

:38:12.:38:17.

?1000 of goods from Harrods and was given a conditional discharge by a

:38:18.:38:20.

magistrate who praised her considerable talents and there will

:38:21.:38:25.

be follow up to that. Daily Mail front page, get to the airport three

:38:26.:38:31.

hours early, advice for British holiday-makers returning from

:38:32.:38:35.

Europe, to do with them imposing border controls of some kind.

:38:36.:38:39.

Before we go, today came the sad news of the death

:38:40.:38:42.

He was best known as Siegfried in All Creatures Great and Small, or -

:38:43.:38:52.

to a younger audience - as Cornelius Fudge in

:38:53.:38:54.

But it may well be his acclaimed portrayal of Winston Churchill -

:38:55.:39:02.

a part he played in five different films - that will be

:39:03.:39:05.

Here's a taste from 1981's The Wilderness Years,

:39:06.:39:08.

I don't suppose that this is the end.

:39:09.:39:16.

This is only the beginning of the reckoning.

:39:17.:39:18.

This is only the first sip, the first foretaste of a bitter cup.

:39:19.:39:21.

It will be proffered to us year by year unless...

:39:22.:39:29.

Unless, by a supreme recovery of martial vigour we arise again

:39:30.:39:32.

More downpour dodging to be done over the next few days, sunshine and

:39:33.:39:51.

showers again

:39:52.:39:53.

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines, with Evan Davis. Stories include comments made by a senior judge on mental health support. Plus women's sport, BoE's Brexit forecast, Rwanda in focus, and the mother of a Briton who died fighting with Kurds against IS speaks.