11/08/2017 Newsnight


Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS


11/08/2017

The latest on escalating tensions between the US and North Korea. Acid attack victims speak out. The wall of green land preventing desertification in sub-Saharan Africa.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 11/08/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Or if he does anything with respect to Guam, or any place else

:00:00.:00:12.

that's an American territory, or an American ally,

:00:13.:00:17.

he will truly regret it, and he will regret it fast.

:00:18.:00:22.

The North Korean nuclear crisis keeps roiling away,

:00:23.:00:24.

Is all of this making the actual use of nuclear weapons -

:00:25.:00:31.

for so long unthinkable - a real possibility?

:00:32.:00:36.

We speak to the man who advised Obama

:00:37.:00:38.

Acid attacks in the UK have more than doubled in three years.

:00:39.:00:47.

We've seen it on the streets, thieves on mopeds

:00:48.:00:49.

throwing acid at people, now it's happening in people's homes.

:00:50.:00:59.

He pulled the bottle out, squeezed acid on my face,

:01:00.:01:08.

This man was attacked with acid two and a half years ago.

:01:09.:01:24.

And, the green innovation staving off desertification

:01:25.:01:26.

I campaign for human rights in my homeland.

:01:27.:01:31.

In a generation there has been a catastrophic change

:01:32.:01:34.

Korea and its surrounding region are in a state of high

:01:35.:01:47.

President Trump this morning tweeted that US military options

:01:48.:01:54.

North Korea maintains that it intends soon to fire four missiles

:01:55.:02:03.

in the direction of Guam, with its American base.

:02:04.:02:07.

But we're also hearing moderating voices.

:02:08.:02:08.

James Mattis, the US defence secretary, has stressed that the US

:02:09.:02:11.

is dealing with the North Korean threat by diplomatic means.

:02:12.:02:13.

And it emerged today that talks are actively taking place

:02:14.:02:17.

between President Trump's Korea envoy and a senior North Korean

:02:18.:02:24.

official at the United Nations in New York.

:02:25.:02:30.

But there are bigger issues here that won't go away.

:02:31.:02:43.

At the end of a week of high bluster, I've been looking

:02:44.:02:46.

into the question of whether the use of nuclear weapons is genuinely

:02:47.:02:49.

There's a real chance of military action between nuclear armed

:02:50.:03:09.

It also comes at a time when many experts feel nuclear war

:03:10.:03:15.

During the Cold War, it would have been the soviet union

:03:16.:03:23.

and the United States, both with thousands of nuclear

:03:24.:03:25.

warheads and God forbid if they'd gone to war,

:03:26.:03:28.

the whole planet could have been destroyed.

:03:29.:03:44.

Now, if you had, and we must desperately try to prevent one,

:03:45.:03:47.

if you had the use of nuclear weapons, either North Korea, India,

:03:48.:03:50.

Pakistan or the Middle East, disastrous for these regions,

:03:51.:03:52.

but compared to the Cold War, the risks at the time

:03:53.:03:54.

of the Cuban missile crisis, it wouldn't threaten the very

:03:55.:03:57.

What Korea reminds us of is proliferation and the more

:03:58.:04:00.

widespread these weapons are, the greater the scope

:04:01.:04:02.

Pakistan and Israel are each believed to have more nuclear

:04:03.:04:08.

India has them too and Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria and Libya

:04:09.:04:15.

are all believed to have had nuclear weapons programmes,

:04:16.:04:17.

The next threat is what experts call lowering the nuclear threshold.

:04:18.:04:37.

That means to some, their use is becoming more thinkable,

:04:38.:04:39.

in circumstances short of global nuclear war.

:04:40.:04:44.

Recent Russian exercises reportedly involved a small scale

:04:45.:04:47.

use of nuclear weapons against European countries.

:04:48.:04:51.

In the US, meanwhile, Donald Trump hinted on campaign,

:04:52.:04:59.

that they might be used against the Islamic State group.

:05:00.:05:06.

Were a conventional conflict to happen again, where North Korea

:05:07.:05:08.

could probably inflict a lot of damage, it certainly

:05:09.:05:11.

wouldn't be able to prevail in a straightforward,

:05:12.:05:13.

Which is where nuclear weapons come in for North Korea in part,

:05:14.:05:24.

because those weapons give North Korea what we would call

:05:25.:05:27.

Even if wiser heads prevail, what is the scope for

:05:28.:05:32.

Several senior Cold War statesman campaign on this issue,

:05:33.:05:42.

highlighting concerns about computer glitches or cyber attacks

:05:43.:05:43.

And if all that isn't worrying enough, there's the question

:05:44.:06:02.

of whether some countries might have cut conventional forces to such

:06:03.:06:05.

a degree, that they have few other options.

:06:06.:06:08.

Some countries that pursue nuclear weapons, pursue them

:06:09.:06:12.

because they are conventionally inferior to their adversaries.

:06:13.:06:22.

So nuclear weapons in a conflict scenario might come into play much

:06:23.:06:25.

earlier because their incentives to keep the conflict conventional,

:06:26.:06:27.

A stable nuclear balance, like the Cold War or the India,

:06:28.:06:32.

Pakistan situation is underpinned by large conventional forces.

:06:33.:06:34.

That's the anti-imperialist case for proliferation,

:06:35.:06:40.

if you like, that buttressed by other forces and

:06:41.:06:44.

rational leadership, it can stabilise regions.

:06:45.:06:45.

In the case of India and Pakistan, what has happened,

:06:46.:06:49.

and it is disturbing and uncomfortable to acknowledge

:06:50.:06:51.

They had a real wars three or four times before they both

:06:52.:06:58.

And since then that has acted as a discipline, as a constraint.

:06:59.:07:03.

That's perhaps the biggest military unknown in this present crisis.

:07:04.:07:08.

The US could mount strikes no doubt, but Kim Jong-un has a wide variety

:07:09.:07:12.

of retaliatory options, from massive conventional

:07:13.:07:14.

attacks to chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.

:07:15.:07:17.

No wonder key allies from South Korea to Australia are worried.

:07:18.:07:23.

He was the White House Coordinator for Arms Control under

:07:24.:07:30.

President Obama and he's now at Harvard's Kennedy

:07:31.:07:36.

We will look at some of those big issues on the on thinkable in a

:07:37.:07:50.

moment, but let's start off with North Korea, the issue of the

:07:51.:07:53.

moment. You have been dealing with this on and off for decades. Where

:07:54.:08:00.

do you rank this situation right now, how serious? I continue to

:08:01.:08:04.

think the risk of actual war is low because nobody would benefit from

:08:05.:08:08.

it. For North Korea, it would be fatal and for the US and its allies,

:08:09.:08:13.

it would be costly. But we are seeing posturing and I hope it is a

:08:14.:08:20.

prelude to eventually resuming negotiations. A lot will depend on

:08:21.:08:29.

Kim Jong-un's calculations. He is demonstrating long-range missile

:08:30.:08:33.

capability, but the cost has been more serious economic sanctions,

:08:34.:08:37.

which the Chinese have been as serious to support. At some point

:08:38.:08:41.

when Kim Jong-un decides he can come back to the bargaining table with a

:08:42.:08:44.

strong position and look to see what he can get in return in return for

:08:45.:08:54.

accepting a freeze on his nuclear return. We are not there yet, Kim

:08:55.:08:59.

Jong-un of thing he cannot be intimidated by the Security Council.

:09:00.:09:04.

So I think we will see another round of missile tests but I think they

:09:05.:09:14.

will be short range tests. It would be extremely provocative? It would,

:09:15.:09:18.

but at the same time with the Trump administration, they are trying to

:09:19.:09:23.

manoeuvre towards a resumption of diplomacy. Rex Tillerson has said if

:09:24.:09:28.

Kim Jong-un would just pours his testing programme, the US is

:09:29.:09:32.

prepared to open talks. We know there are low-level talks going on

:09:33.:09:35.

between the State Department and North Koreans and New York. You were

:09:36.:09:43.

part of the conversation in the Obama White House. Iran was a big

:09:44.:09:47.

priority, there were many other things going on, to what extent do

:09:48.:09:51.

you think it is fair to say the North Korean was pushed onto the

:09:52.:09:58.

back burner under Obama? The Obama administration took several runs at

:09:59.:10:01.

an effort to negotiate with North Korea and they all ended unhappily.

:10:02.:10:06.

The first run ended after the sinking of a South Korean vessel and

:10:07.:10:15.

the second ended after a league date agreement in February 2012, where

:10:16.:10:20.

the US provided humanitarian assistance and the North Koreans

:10:21.:10:26.

agreed to suspend testing and freeze their nuclear programme but then Kim

:10:27.:10:30.

Jong-un violated the agreement three weeks after it was done. So the

:10:31.:10:34.

conclusion was there was no valley in talking to North Korea until more

:10:35.:10:43.

luggage was built up. The testing continued and unchecked? You have

:10:44.:10:46.

seen two processes happening at the same time. 1-0 has accelerated his

:10:47.:10:52.

testing programme and the sanctions have begun to build up. You

:10:53.:10:58.

mentioned the likelihood of reverting to the diplomatic to

:10:59.:11:02.

approach, you quoted Rex Tillerson, but how do we read the statements

:11:03.:11:06.

from President Trump? The others all seemed to be behaving like the

:11:07.:11:11.

Washington figures, like yourself that we are used to, but this is

:11:12.:11:16.

different, is it dangerous in itself? In substance, Trump is not

:11:17.:11:22.

saying anything different that President is always say in that

:11:23.:11:26.

America will defend itself and its allies. But Trump is doing it which

:11:27.:11:33.

has a locker room quality to it. My concern is, I would hate to see the

:11:34.:11:37.

president of the United States putting himself in a place where

:11:38.:11:45.

he's being equated with Kim Jong-un. It is important Trump does not go

:11:46.:11:48.

too far in terms of making our allies nervous. There is some value

:11:49.:11:54.

in making the Chinese nervous, to get diplomacy started, but if you go

:11:55.:12:00.

to bar with that rhetoric... You have spent a lifetime working on

:12:01.:12:03.

proliferation, so is it just delaying the inevitable that other

:12:04.:12:08.

countries will get the bomb and then one of them will use it? South

:12:09.:12:17.

Africa has given up nuclear weapons programmes, South Korea, Taiwan.

:12:18.:12:21.

Other efforts fail, Pakistan, India, North Korea. You never know, when

:12:22.:12:26.

you start, whether it will succeed or fail. You have to play out your

:12:27.:12:31.

hand and then at the end of the day, you will know. Thank very much.

:12:32.:12:37.

Acid attacks are on the rise across the UK.

:12:38.:12:39.

There were more than 400 in the six months up

:12:40.:12:42.

and the numbers have more than doubled in England since 2014,

:12:43.:12:46.

Most reported attacks have taken place in public places,

:12:47.:12:53.

but Newsnight has spoken exclusively to one family who were victims

:12:54.:12:55.

Elaine Dunkley reports, and her film contains images some

:12:56.:13:00.

Where does it hurt, mate, are you all right?

:13:01.:13:05.

We're here to try and get water into your eyes.

:13:06.:13:08.

Mate, keep your eyes open, keep your eyes open.

:13:09.:13:10.

The use of chemicals as a weapon is growing in the UK.

:13:11.:13:14.

Victims left physically and mentally scarred by

:13:15.:13:16.

I was thinking, I'm not going to see anything after that.

:13:17.:13:22.

A common household product widely available and used in the

:13:23.:13:24.

Back in April, 20 people were left injured and two

:13:25.:13:31.

blinded following an acid attack in this nightclub.

:13:32.:13:34.

Thieves on scooters throwing acid and people to steal

:13:35.:13:39.

And now it's happening in people's homes.

:13:40.:13:46.

Zahadine Barba was attacked in his living room three weeks ago.

:13:47.:13:50.

Showed the phone to him and he said yes, I'm

:13:51.:14:08.

And grabbed a bottle out from his bag and he just pressed on that

:14:09.:14:13.

Twice on my face, and acid comes on my face and I'm

:14:14.:14:17.

totally blind, and I know that he attacked me with acid.

:14:18.:14:22.

Fortunately Zahadine was able to wash off the acid.

:14:23.:14:27.

He has no visible scars and has regained his sight but

:14:28.:14:30.

his family has been left traumatised.

:14:31.:14:35.

I went to the kitchen and then I saw my dad over there,

:14:36.:14:38.

And you know, like putting the water on his face, and

:14:39.:14:45.

then I ran off to the garden because I really didn't want to see that

:14:46.:14:49.

I never had anything like this before happened

:14:50.:15:00.

And how are you now, how are things now for you?

:15:01.:15:05.

Recent attacks have brought into focus the urgency in helping

:15:06.:15:15.

someone who has been a victim of this sort of crime.

:15:16.:15:19.

And although it is still very rare, the Royal

:15:20.:15:21.

College of Emergency Medicine is calling for more training of

:15:22.:15:24.

This is Newham University Hospital and it's in East London.

:15:25.:15:41.

This area has the highest number of acid attakcs in the UK.

:15:42.:15:44.

In the past five years there have been 400 cases and that

:15:45.:15:46.

We are seeing a case about every day or

:15:47.:15:50.

two, especially in this area, it seems to be a lot more frequent.

:15:51.:15:53.

And some members of the public, what should they do if they see someone

:15:54.:15:56.

with eyes burning, skin burning, what do you do.

:15:57.:15:58.

It's important to stay safe as a bystander, make sure you

:15:59.:16:01.

Other than that if you can help the person

:16:02.:16:04.

by rinsing the acid off them and tap water is good for that but you need

:16:05.:16:08.

I would recommend using 30, 40 or 50 litres of water to

:16:09.:16:12.

get rid of the acid from someone's face.

:16:13.:16:14.

This is extremely important, you can make a difference to whether

:16:15.:16:17.

someone can walk away from an acid attack with just a superficial burn

:16:18.:16:20.

or be blinded for the rest of their lives.

:16:21.:16:24.

The problem is reflected across the UK.

:16:25.:16:37.

Attacks carried out in the six months up to

:16:38.:16:44.

Since 2011 there have been nearly 2000 attacks in the

:16:45.:16:49.

There are petitions online to restrict the sale of industrial

:16:50.:16:52.

It is cheap, easy to obtain and disguise.

:16:53.:16:55.

It is a challenge for those trying to take it out of the

:16:56.:16:59.

I think it's far too easy for people to get hold of

:17:00.:17:02.

it, whether in a domestic setting or retail setting.

:17:03.:17:05.

But one thing that is important to say is that it is

:17:06.:17:07.

One of the things we are doing now is, we are

:17:08.:17:11.

looking to do pre-emptive testing to identify where people carry that

:17:12.:17:14.

acid, we are also working closely to send

:17:15.:17:16.

strong messaging around the

:17:17.:17:17.

If you choose to carry acid you can be

:17:18.:17:20.

liable for a four-year imprisonment sentence for carrying it is an

:17:21.:17:23.

If you use and the courts can sentence you to life

:17:24.:17:26.

So the penalties are very severe and it's important that

:17:27.:17:30.

anybody that goes out with acid, whether carrying it or whether they

:17:31.:17:33.

use it, that they understand that because we will be coming after you.

:17:34.:17:36.

Victims want tough words to become a reality.

:17:37.:17:38.

For those who have been left scarred, their injuries

:17:39.:17:40.

I'm now joined from Truro by Andreas Christopheros.

:17:41.:17:56.

He suffered serious burns when a beaker of sulphuric acid

:17:57.:17:59.

It happened on his own doorstep two and a half years ago.

:18:00.:18:03.

His attacker, who mistook Andreas for his intended victim,

:18:04.:18:07.

was jailed for life, but that sentence has

:18:08.:18:08.

Andreas, we are grateful to you for coming in to talk about this. It

:18:09.:18:24.

cannot be easy. When you see how much coverage has been attracted by

:18:25.:18:30.

this issue of late, do you think the rest of us have been too slow to

:18:31.:18:35.

wake up to the seriousness of this? I think it has become very shocking,

:18:36.:18:43.

shocking matter for the country. It is hard to see what the solution

:18:44.:18:49.

should have been but I believe that the real solution at this time is

:18:50.:18:56.

tougher sentencing. And with my attacker having his sentence made

:18:57.:19:08.

lighter, it seems completely wrong. You have been through so much, and

:19:09.:19:17.

trying to get your life back on track, do you feel that anyone who

:19:18.:19:25.

says that this is not as serious as I've broken attack is wrong? I would

:19:26.:19:29.

have preferred to have been shot or stabbed. On the first might might

:19:30.:19:34.

doctor sat down my wife and my mother back and said, we do not

:19:35.:19:38.

think he will make it through the night. The difference was that if I

:19:39.:19:42.

was shot or stabbed the wounds would heal, the scarring caused by

:19:43.:19:47.

sulphuric acid which was what I was attacked with, I will never heal. I

:19:48.:19:51.

will have these scars for the rest of my life. I'll will forever have a

:19:52.:19:56.

loss of sight. There is no miracle cure for me. I'm sure you have heard

:19:57.:20:04.

in recent months, all sorts of ideas have been put around like stopping

:20:05.:20:09.

people under 18 buying corrosive liquids, saying you have to do it

:20:10.:20:13.

with a credit card, changing sentencing guidelines, which of

:20:14.:20:20.

these ideas make the most sense to you? You can buy sulphuric acid in

:20:21.:20:36.

such an easy manner. Someone wanting to get their hands on it, they will.

:20:37.:20:41.

And ultimately I think the real deterrent for anyone thinking about

:20:42.:20:46.

committing an acid attack or an attack of any corrosive substance

:20:47.:20:52.

should be the sentencing. You recently met with your MP, who is

:20:53.:20:55.

also a Home Office minister. Do you get the feeling that the government

:20:56.:21:01.

is giving this type of crime the attention it merits? It is nice to

:21:02.:21:10.

hear this week the suggestion that any person who does commit an acid

:21:11.:21:14.

attack will receive a life sentence. I think the indicators are there. I

:21:15.:21:20.

feel everyone is on the same page now. It's only in the last week or

:21:21.:21:24.

so that I can say I've felt like that. But anyone who commits an acid

:21:25.:21:29.

attack should face life. It is a life sentence for me. They should

:21:30.:21:35.

face life, minimum term of 25 years. I will have my injuries until the

:21:36.:21:39.

grave so why should they walk the streets? Thank you for putting bad

:21:40.:21:43.

beauty us. Thank you, Andreas. Well, we've been dealing with some

:21:44.:21:48.

tough issues tonight, but bear with us, this last story

:21:49.:21:50.

has a more hopeful note. Climate change poses huge challenges

:21:51.:21:53.

and, it's projected, will cause hundreds of millions

:21:54.:21:55.

to become refugees. Desertification in sub-Saharan

:21:56.:21:58.

Africa plays a big part in that. And that in turn feeds into Europe's

:21:59.:22:14.

unfolding migrant crisis. Inna Modja is a Malian singer

:22:15.:22:16.

and activist who has been to Senegal for Newsnight to witness

:22:17.:22:19.

a pan-African initiative, It aims to improve livelihoods

:22:20.:22:21.

in the Sahel region, reverse desertification,

:22:22.:22:28.

and break the cycle of exodus. Stretching across the width

:22:29.:22:30.

of Africa, the southern reaches of the Sahara desert are known

:22:31.:22:39.

as the Sahel. It's a zone between sand

:22:40.:22:43.

and productive land, which has been severely degraded

:22:44.:22:47.

in recent years by climate change But here in northern Senegal,

:22:48.:22:50.

the Sahel is starting to come back to life again,

:22:51.:22:57.

thanks to a little-known pan-African initiative called

:22:58.:23:02.

the Great Green Wall. Launched in 2007, it hopes

:23:03.:23:06.

to provide a new way of thinking I'm Inna Modja, a musician

:23:07.:23:10.

and activist from Mali. I perform my music around the world

:23:11.:23:18.

and campaign for human rights The Great Green Wall was initially

:23:19.:23:22.

conceived as an ambitious plan to plant a natural 8,000 kilometres

:23:23.:24:05.

wall of trees and plants stretching from Senegal to Djibouti,

:24:06.:24:11.

but that hasn't happened and the grand idea of a continuous

:24:12.:24:13.

wall of trees has gradually faded. Critics argued that a wall promoted

:24:14.:24:18.

the idea of a barrier against the desert, when in fact

:24:19.:24:22.

it's a much greater region So, the wall has evolved

:24:23.:24:28.

into a vision to green the areas surrounding the Sahara with a mosaic

:24:29.:24:34.

of trees and small developments, This has been a shared

:24:35.:24:37.

political vision of African Notably Thomas Sankara,

:24:38.:25:16.

Burkina Faso's revolutionary Now 20 countries across the region

:25:17.:25:19.

have come together to $8 billion have been

:25:20.:25:30.

given or pledged so far, mostly coming from international

:25:31.:25:35.

partners, such as the World Bank with some funding from beneficiary

:25:36.:25:38.

countries and the African union. People here live on the very front

:25:39.:25:43.

line of climate change, But in their day-to-day lives,

:25:44.:25:46.

they feel the effects of climate change, they feel

:25:47.:26:01.

the effects of desertification. This project really aims to redress

:26:02.:26:03.

this by creating food security And it's not just about food,

:26:04.:26:05.

every day we see the wider impact The Mediterranean migrant crisis,

:26:06.:26:10.

the Boko Haram massacres in the Chad region and terrorist

:26:11.:26:15.

attacks in Mali and Burkina Faso. At their root, all of this can be

:26:16.:26:19.

traced to a cycle of poverty and lack of opportunity

:26:20.:26:22.

that is fuelled by a decline In a generation, there's been

:26:23.:26:24.

a catastrophic change The Great Green Wall aims to provide

:26:25.:26:44.

new opportunities for communities, not just to survive,

:26:45.:27:25.

but to thrive here once more. Places like this in Senegal are

:27:26.:27:54.

known as the villages with no men. There's a gaping hole

:27:55.:28:01.

in the local demographic. The young men have left

:28:02.:28:06.

to seek jobs elsewhere, It's driving the young away

:28:07.:28:08.

from their communities to seek I can see that you have

:28:09.:28:15.

henna on your fingers, This lady has not heard

:28:16.:28:26.

from her son for years. He was the major breadwinner

:28:27.:28:30.

for the family before he left. How does that affect

:28:31.:28:34.

you economically? It only takes a walk

:28:35.:29:09.

through the dusty street here to see whose relatives have made it

:29:10.:29:14.

to Europe and whose haven't. The homes of successful migrants

:29:15.:29:22.

are large properties made The others are wood

:29:23.:29:24.

and straw with thatched This is the pull factor that drives

:29:25.:29:36.

many towards the perilous boat In west Africa up to 80% of

:29:37.:29:40.

the population live in rural areas. Youth unemployment is a huge problem

:29:41.:29:58.

across the Sahel and a massive By 2030, the project aims to restore

:29:59.:30:01.

100 million hectares of land, sequester 250 million tonnes

:30:02.:30:32.

of carbon and generate more Although it's not clear exactly how

:30:33.:30:34.

these numbers will be achieved. It's definitely small beginnings,

:30:35.:30:45.

with the hope of building The Great Green Wall is a powerful

:30:46.:30:47.

symbol to focus global attention It remains to be seen how successful

:30:48.:31:00.

it will be in breaking Fascinating, that is all from us

:31:01.:31:20.

tonight, we are back on Monday, have a great weekend.

:31:21.:31:27.

Good evening after disappointing weather this week the weekend is

:31:28.:31:33.

shaping up nicely, not altogether dry

:31:34.:31:34.