14/08/2017 Newsnight


In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines. With Emma Barnett.

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But tonight the Government's Brexit position, finally,


In something that looks a lot like the Customs Union,


but with Britain able to negotiate free trade agreements with the


We ask whether the proposed transitional arrangement is possible


Map and two days after the event. -- and finally two days after the


event. And those who cause violence


in its name are criminals and thugs. Including the KKK, neo-Nazis,


white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant


to everything we hold Trump this evening disavowed the


racists but will this be enough to stem the tide of criticism of how he


handled events in Charlottesville? Also tonight, after one of the most


exciting opening weekends in its 25-year history,


we ask one of the Premier League's architects whether it has changed


British football for the better. And now, disengaged from the shirt,


I saw with wonder and surprise... Not the plaything of a boy,


nor the weapon of a man, The Prime Minister returns this week


from her walking holiday in Europe and her government is keen to show


it's stealing the march on Brexit. Until now the predominant features


of this summer have been Cabinet in-fighting and criticism over


the speed at which they're But tonight a picture is starting


to emerge of what Britain's negotiators will be pushing


for in Brussels. Tomorrow a "future partnership


paper" will lay out the government's aspirations for one particularly


thorny issue - the customs union, how we trade with our


European neighbours. This isn't a formal negotiating


position, that is still to come, but the plans suggest that the UK


wants to put in place a temporary customs union during a transitional


period after we leave the EU This is after the Chancellor


and International Trade Secretaries wrote a joint article


in the Sunday Telegraph making explicit that they want us out


of the customs union the moment We will get full details of the


government's proposals tomorrow. editor Helen Thomas has been looking


at the government's proposals. It is one of the big questions of


Brexit, were Britain step part of the customs union, which allows


goods to flow freely tariff free between the countries. Today the


first glimpse of a real answer from the government. The government wants


an interim period where we keep a close association with the customs


union. Good news for those fearing a hard cliff edge Brexit. And it's


meant to provide certainty to businesses. The government has also


proposed two possible models for what happens in the future after


that. The first is a streamlined customs system that uses technology


and other agreements to remove as many barriers to trade as possible.


The second is a new customs partnership, a spoke arrangement


that enables trade to carry on very much as it does at the moment.


Budget abyss spoke arrangement. That's back up. A customs union is


where a group of countries band together. In the case of the EU it


agrees, no customs duties and borders between states so countries


can be traded between those countries free of charge -- so goods


can be traded free of charge. But if goods coming from other countries


they are charged. Each in the same way, whether it's going into France,


Greece, Italy and any other country in the region. And crucially members


are banned by the EU's Common commercial policy. Which means they


are not able to strike their own trade deals with other countries.


Philip Hammond and Liam Fox this weekend called for a time limited


interim period for transition yet stressed they were agreed that


during this period the UK will be outside the single market and


outside the customs union. Well, on the latest proposals they will


indeed be a period of transition. And it will be time limited. But


what the government seems to be saying is that we would leave the


customs union only to move to separate arrangement as similar to


it as humanly possible. The big difference would be that the UK


wants the right to start negotiating its own trade deals, even if it does


not sign them what could be contentious. We would be leaving the


customs union only to stay as close to it as possible. Firstly there is


a legal problem. As long as you are part of close to the EU customs


union the rules don't let strike your own trade agreements. Secondly


a practical point, other countries like Canada and New Zealand that


might do deals with the UK don't want to negotiate unless they know


what the UK's future relationship with the EU will look like and they


will have to wait some time before they know the answer. So what about


longer-term options. If it is option one which means border checks at


least governments and businesses will have had time to prepare. But


option two, a new type of customs partnership, could mean no


disruptions at the Borders at all. It all comes down to negotiation. Is


the free flow of German cars and Italian press Dzeko important enough


for Michel Barnier wrote to let the UK strike its own trade deals on the


side? And will the UK be prepared to tell enough rules to make that


happen? Helen Thomas there. Full details on this proposal will be


released tomorrow, what we've had is just a preview but there's enough


meat in it to discuss. Joining me now is leading Brexiteer


and Conservative MP John Redwood. Also with me is the Labour MP


Chris Leslie who is a spokesperson for the campaign group Open Britain


which is campaigning Good evening to you. John, if I


could start with you. It is slightly odd, is not that Liam Fox and the


Chancellor got together this weekend, wrote this article in the


Sunday Telegraph and say they want us to be out of the customs union by


March 2019, and then we will have this transitional period where we


are in the customs union for we don't know how long. It is a mess. I


don't think the second part is true. It is good news that


the Chancellor and the trade secretary both agree with the


government 's policy which has been a stated policy for some time but we


are leaving the single market and leaving the customs union. That


isn't just the government's wish. It is the expressed view of Parliament


because we had the important vote on this in the recent Parliament and we


agreed we would leave the single market and the customs union. This


shows the fudging it because you will be in the position where you


want the UK and the customs union, all but in name. It is a fudge. The


document has a couple of options on technical issues about how customs


will work once we have left the customs union. Of course we would


like something smooth and similar to what we have at the moment, it's


easier to replicate things you've already got. But we won't be in the


customs union, will be making our own trade agreements. And we have 19


months before we are likely to leave the European Union. So instead of


concentrating on a transitional arrangement afterwards surely we


should maximise our use of the 19 months. One good thing about this


paper is that it is getting the media and we hope, the EU, to


understand about trade now. You've brought up the EU, it is all very


well to say, we are off but we would like all the same perks until we've


sorted out our next deals. These are not perks. Some people would say


they are. Let me ask you, why on earth would Brussels consent to


this. Because they have much more trade than we do in terms of trade


and volume of trade and particularly value of trade that can attract and


rules. If we go out with no deal which is feasible for Britain and


would be fine, there will be big tariffs on agricultural products. I


don't think everyone agrees it would be fine including Chris. The


government 's line is that no deal is better than a bad deal. Let me


explain. Agricultural products, things that can attract high


tariffs, they can bring in a massive surplus and we don't want that. You


are sure that would be a mess, we are going back to this land of


wanting to have your cake and eat it. Maybe the penny is beginning to


drop somewhere in Whitehall that this idea of leaving the customs


union, we can wait for the single market, we'd like to stay in that as


well, wouldn't be that good for our economy, society, and prosperity


large. The problem is that trying to extricate Britain from what, 57


different trade deals that EU have made over the last 40 years leaves


Britain and in the cold because of Brexit with all of that, to peace


pipe all those jigsaw pieces, how are you going to put those pieces --


two piece back all those pieces, how you going to... Do you see it, Chris


Leslie, as is often in of the position? We thought we were heading


for a so-called hard Brexit and we were leaving the customs union and


going for a deal that is almost exactly the same in all but name do


you know hope this is a softer Brexit. I would hope so and Philip


Hammond seems to be trying to pull the government in that direction. My


worry is that there are so many obstacles that have to be thought


through properly. For instance, how is the UK going to get a fresh free


trade agreement with the EU through all of those national parliaments


across the EU. For instance all of those existing trade deals that we


in the UK enjoy, how do we get those grand fathered, basically, readopted


the UK. We are facing a problem. The Vote Leave guys promised, in the


referendum, John and Vote Leave promised that straight after the


referendum, from day one, we'd be able to negotiate all these trade


deals. But has not happened. Tomorrow's papers are writing this


up as a victory for those who support softer Brexit in the


challenge, a victory for the Chancellor. As an ardent Brexiteer


do you feel in any way you've been sold down the river? I don't agree


with that analysis at all. Government policy is clear that we


leave the single market and the customs union. All this trade


agreements we have with the EU and the rest of the world will translate


to us as well if ourselves in the party wanted, it is nothing to do


with the EU, it's about us. If Iraq that is 57 bilateral deals of all


the countries in the world. When will that happen? It won't be March


2019... Muggy give us date. I see no reason why the trade should not


happen at all. John Redwood, would you prefer Jacob Rhys Mogg to do


this deal instead of Theresa May? I'm happy with Theresa May, she is


the leader, and Mr Rhys Mogg says he isn't running the leader. We are


going to lead in March 20 19. We will leave the single market...


Weirdly, John Redwood is happy and Chris Leslie, you are also happy.


It's a reversal of the whole of the Brexit process and I think we could


still go in that direction. Thank you very much. Brexit back on the


agenda. Elsewhere, President Trump this


evening condemned the neo-Nazis, KKK members and activists from other


hate groups who sparked the violence this weekend


in Charlottesville, Virginia - one of America's largest


recent public gatherings The trouble led to the


death of anti-fascist campaigner Heather Heyer


and left 19 others injured. Today's remarks were,


you might think, a standard presidential statement


under the circumstances, yet it took Mr Trump two


days to reach a position where he was prepared to speak out


against the far-right elements whose support some believe helped him


into the White House. How significant is the extreme


right in America - and has Trump created the conditions


in which the movement might grow? Gabriel Gatehouse has been examining


the aftermath of a shocking weekend. This report contains some strong


language. They came to Charlottesville


prepared for confrontation. The Unite the Right protesters


included neo-Nazis and members They brought shields


and helmets, clubs and guns. By mid-afternoon, one woman


was dead, killed by a speeding car, allegedly driven by a man described


as having an interest White supremacists were condemned


by nearly everybody We condemn in the strongest possible


terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence,


on many sites. -- of hatred, bigotry


and violence, on many sides. A neo-Nazi website interpreted this


statement as a tacit What might have been a tragic


but isolated incident of political violence has become an existential


question about where The far right that we're talking


about here believes that white people in the United States


are being "dispossessed". So when they heard Trump talk


about building a wall, when they heard him talk


about Mexicans being criminals and rapists, when he retweeted


somebody whose account, their Twitter handle


was called "White Genocide", these were all things that thrilled


them, that energised them, that made them believe that


Donald Trump was one of them This has been declared


unlawful assembly. The authorities in Charlottesville


were taken aback by how fast The governor of Virginia said


the right-wing protesters The counterdemonstrators


seemed less well armed, but no less angry and,


say witnesses on the right, Look out there yourself for footage


of these rallies and these marches That doesn't excuse any behaviour,


on either side, that's But I'm saying that if we want


to have a full and frank conversation about this,


we have to realise that these The protest in Charlottesville


was sensibly called in defence of a statue


to a Confederate general. Their torchlit procession


was reminiscent of the Klan America has changed since then,


but not, perhaps, as much as eight years of an Obama


presidency might suggest. Black quarterbacks on the team


of white supremacy hasn't helped us. On the eve of Donald Trump's


inauguration I met Silky Slim, a community activist in Baton Rouge,


Louisiana. The KKK, he told me then,


had never really gone away. Even so, today he's taken


aback by the vehemence When we talked to you back then,


when you came here, one of the things we really didn't


understand, the language where people were asking us,


when they came from England, France and other places,


do you think this is going to be a race war, we were like no,


we're fighting against injustice. But now, we definitely see a race


war on the horizon here in America. They aren't even hiding


behind their hoods any more. With Trump in office,


they think this is something that they can bring to the forefront


and America has to accept it. It's a very crazy time right


here in America now. Under pressure, Donald Trump today


condemned white supremacy more And those who cause violence


in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK,


neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that


are repugnant to everything But in Charlottesville


and elsewhere, there are those who fear his presidency has


unleashed forces many thought consigned to history,


and opened wounds that the passage Joining me now from New York


are the conservative commentator Ann Coulter and Ellis Cose,


a fellow of the American Civil Liberties Union and author


of multiple books exploring Thank you for joining us. Donald


Trump called a press conference today in which he explicitly


condemned members of the KKK, neo-Nazis, he knew that he had done


something wrong in not explicitly condemning the groups before, didn't


he? No, I don't think so. I think that there were different factions


that were so heavily... The Republican party in Washington hates


Trump and were pushing him to do it, I don't think he should have. To


give your view a more accurate description of what happened, the


New York Times report, one of the most liberal reporters here, said


that the violence was coming from both sides. In fact it was New York


militia members doing a better job than the police, who were told to


stand down by Democrats. This country has been ruled by left-wing


violence for more than a year now. If I can just interrupt, it is a


false equivalence to say left-wing violence was the same as fascist


white supremacists coming together, walking in jack boots, holding guns,


saying that you will not defeat us, dues will not replace us, shouting


all sorts of hateful slogans, they started the rally and created the


rally and it is the largest group of white supremacist with their faces


shown. It isn't the same as antifascist protesters coming


together. Absolutely wrong, the "Antifascist", the labels you put on


them, those protesters burned down Berkeley twice to prevent me and


others from speaking, they shut down a Rose Parade in Portland that has


gone on for years because the local Republicans were going to March. No


Conservative can speak at a college campus because the "anti-fascists"


smashed windows and beat people up. The one actual legal difference as


opposed to a label that you're going to put on them is that these alleged


Nazis, some work, someone not, there were a few Nazis, I'm not one of


them, they had a permit to speak and they were not allowed to speak. The


anti-fascists disrupted a legal gathering. Donald Trump has clearly


condemned the KKK today, perhaps late, you would say, but has he done


enough? Has he done enough? He's done all I think. I think it's right


to say they had a permit and one reason for that is because the ACLU


stood up for them to get a permit. We have to separate the question of


freedom of speech from what the speech entailed and what they


encouraged and what they created. The problem is that we had a group


of white racists who wanted a race riot, basically. There's no way


around that. And the fact that the president took two days to speak to


it is ridiculous. It's a movement like Witness or anyone who season


something, instead of making an immediate statement, speaking two


days after being beaten up and finally saying OK, I'll do it...


Even when he spoke out he mixed up his message by saying he was


thinking of pardoning a sheriff in Arizona who was convicted of racial


profiling and slamming the black CEO who resigned, dating to his lack of


fortitude in speaking about this before. Clearly Donald Trump has a


problem when it comes to associating himself from virulent racism in


America, and no president should have that problem that they are such


a big part of his face that he must accommodate them -- a big part of


his base. A former KKK leader who was at the March said that "We are


going to fulfil the promises of Donald Trump. " Why are they doing


it in Donald Trump's name and is that the reason he refused to risk


this elite condemned them in the immediate aftermath of the Wyatt? --


he refused to explicitly condemned them in the aftermath of the riot.


If we're talking about how long it takes for a condemnation, the Black


Lives Matter activists are responsible for killing ten cops


last year. Five in Louisiana. How many black people lost their lives


in America last year...? Why wasn't president Obama asked to denounce


that. That is a smear, Black Lives Matter did not kill ten cops, that


is an incorrect slur, it is a lie. Neither did the clan. The man who


drove a car did not... You don't even know if this was... It is a


flat out live. It isn't. -- a flat out lie. These are people who are


part of Donald Trump's base so he has a lot of trouble associating


himself. Hillary had Black Lives Matter speakers at her convention.


Donald Trump is not going to have David Duke at his convention. In a


freedom of speech and expression you are both speaking at the same time.


Thank you for joining us. Saudi Arabia - a key ally


of the UK and America - has been ruled as an absolute


monarchy since its foundation. Any opposition in the country


is often brutally oppressed - even it seems when the dissent comes


from within the reigning Al Saud royal family,


which has more than 10,000 members. BBC Arabic has been investigating


allegations that the Saudi monarchy has operated a system of illegal


abduction and capture of dissident Princes who have


criticised the government, including evidence of Princes


kidnapped in Europe and forced back to Saudi Arabia,


where they've not been He's one of the grandsons


of King Abdulaziz ibn Saud, He is also a fierce critic


of the ruling elite in the kingdom. In January 2016 he was preparing


to travel to Cairo on a private jet offered to him by the Saudi


consulate in Paris. Two of his staff told us


what happened on that flight. Their identities are


hidden to protect them. It wasn't until just before


we landed that we realised As soon as the Prince realised


where we were he got up without his walker and was trying


to get towards the door. We looked out the window and we just


saw a bunch of people get out with their rifles slung


over their chests and The soldiers and cabin crew dragged


Sultan from the plane. He was screaming at his team


to call the US embassy. A Saudi prince and his team


of European and American nationals were kidnapped and taken to Saudi


Arabia. The foreigners were allowed


to leave three days later. Sultan has not been


heard from since. Other dissident princes have also


gone missing since 2015. Our investigation gathered evidence


of the kidnapping and illegal rendition of family members who'd


criticised the Saudi rulers. I'm meeting Prince Khalid


Bin Farhan al-Saud. His branch of the family fell


out of favour long ago, and more recently he began


to question the Saudi Eventually he fled to Germany


and claimed asylum. According to Prince Khalid,


the fate of the dissident princes is decided at the very top


of the Saudi government. This is Prince Turki


bin Bandar al-Saud. He was once a major in the Saudi


police force, with access to highly The bitter inheritance


dispute with the family On his release he fled to Paris


where he lived in this apartment. In June 2012 he began posting videos


on YouTube in which he calls I've spent months tracking down


people in Paris who knew Turki. Most are reluctant to speak,


saying they fear retribution This man is a blogger and activist


who was a friend of Turki's. I searched the international


media for news of Turki. I found this article


in a Moroccan newspaper. It says Turki was about to leave


Morocco for France when he was Then, following a request


from the Saudi authorities, he was deported, with the approval


of a Moroccan court. If the article is accurate,


it looks as if the Moroccan authorities may have colluded


with the Saudis in We put these allegations


to the government of Morocco. I'd heard about yet another Saudi


prince who had disappeared. Saud bin Saif al-Nasr


was a relatively minor royal. A playboy with a liking for Europe's


casinos and expensive hotels. But in 2014 he began tweeting


attacks on the Saudi monarchy. To those who say I'm criticising


people from my family, I say it's obligatory


to state the truth. In September 2015 an anonymous Suadi


price wrote asking for a coup. The letters went online


and were read by millions. This was an astonishing


display of opposition. Prince Saud was the only royal


to endorse the letters. This was tantamount to treason


and may have sealed his fate. A few days later, his Twitter


account fell silent. This tweet on September


10th 2015 was his last. I call for the nation to turn


the content of the letters Although there is no definitive


proof, Prince Khalid and two other sources believe he may have fallen


into an elaborate trap. For one of the Princess, Sultan,


2016 was not the first time in 2003 and placed under


house arrest in Saudi. After his health deteriorated,


he was allowed to leave Saudi in 2014 to seek medical treatment


in the United States. He later placed a criminal complaint


against his cousin and a Saudi official, accusing them


of the 2003 abduction. His lawyer informed the Swiss


authorities about the most recent kidnapping, hoping something might


be done about the first. In my understanding of Swiss


laws, you have 15 years 15 years from that June date in 2003


and it is a lengthy process, going So effectively by suspending


the prosecution, it's really defeating the ability in a timely


manner to pursue the prosecution. According to Swiss law the legal


action against Sultan's alleged We tried to contact the three


Princes, without success. When we asked the government


of Saudi Arabia to respond to the allegations in this film,


it declined to comment. Meanwhile, Prince Khalid,


still exiled in Germany, fears he also may face


the same fate as Sultan. Some have called it the best opening


weekend in the 25 years 31 goals have already been


scored since the season When the league launched


in 1992 it was described as the big bang moment that


would transform the game. Since then TV fees, player salaries


and ticket prices have soared. Many believe the standard


of the football has skyrocketed 25 years on, has the Premier League


done what it set out to do, We'll discuss all that in just


a moment, but first here are some MUSIC: Alive and Kicking


by Simple Minds Fashion and hairstyles aren't


the only things to have moved on in the 25 years since English


football's First Division broke away Only 13 foreign players appeared


in the Premier League's opening Uefa's latest report


on European football said the Premier League


now had the highest proportion


of foreign players of the 75 It also topped the league


for foreign coaches, at 75%. Match day attendances are up,


but TV has been where the real Sky paid ?191 million to air live


matches for five years, At the last auction,


Sky and BT paid a combined ?5.1 billion for just three seasons


of match rights. That money has then


flowed to the clubs. Despite that, tickets have got


pricier, with fans taking the hit. One estimate puts the 1992 average


ticket price at about ?7.50. Adjusted for inflation,


that would be ?14.25 last year. Last season's average


ticket price, according So, are spectators getting more bang


for their extra buck? Well, on average there were just


0.15 more goals per game last year All that money, it seems,


doesn't necessarily make Well, one of the people


who negotiated the deal that created the Premier League was its first


Chief Executive, Rick Parry. Also with us is Henry Winter, the


Chief Football Writer at The Times. Rick Parry, good evening, let me


come to your first. As one of the architects of the Premier League has


it worked out? Unquestionably. It is arguably the most popular


professional sporting contest on the planet, watched in more than 200


countries. Popular in many respects, it has certainly done what it set


out to do. I think there are challenges. Nothing is perfect and I


think in particular at the moment it is disappointing that our teams are


not doing well in Europe in the five years up to 2009, we were on the top


of the pile, the number one ranked nation, now we are number three.


There is a chasm between the Premier League and the football league.


Wider than ever before, that is an issue. And perennially national team


still is not doing what we all hope it would do and steps can be taken


there. Will come onto some of those points in a moment. Henry Winter,


you speak to a lot of fans and right on behalf of them, many feel price


tag. I think one year ago you saw Liverpool fans holding up that


banner which said enough is enough, echoing the views of fans all over


the country, not simply in the Premier League, some of the prices


being asked of fans, it was unconscionable for many in the


difficult economic climate. Certainly the more intelligent clubs


like Stoke City are addressing the price issue. It's not simply that


the cost for home fans, it's a fans as well forget the atmosphere going


on many occasions, finally I think now clubs have finally realised that


ticket prices have been too much, the football supporters Federation


who have led this campaign together with their counterparts at


Liverpool, they want and ?20 fall away tickets, this 20 is bloody


campaign. As Rick said the huge amounts of money flowing into the


games and clubs through sponsorship and revenue, they have to start


bringing down their prices even more. Sharing the wealth, should


more money go from the Premier League to invest in the grassroots


of football, it's only 100 million that has been pledged, when you


think of the figures involved. ?100 million in terms of the Premier


League is a significant sum, in terms of grassroots, of course more


can always be done... That's two players from Manchester City, in


compared to the cost of the TV rights. Or less than half a player


in the case of PSG. The Premier League for its greatness has not let


the cash flow around in the right way and has denied its fans access.


Unquestionably there are some issues that needs to be addressed, it's


been a success on many, many levels but I think there are some


challenges ahead, and neglecting fans, that is huge mistake because


at the end of the day it is atmosphere that is of paramount


importance. Fans absolutely part of the event, and without traditional


fans, the spectacle is not what it should be. Many fans of an older


profile, due to their age, Henry, only 13 foreign players in the


Premier League started, your entire career has been about covering the


Premier League. The now - know the majority of foreign players, how


much of an issue has this been for England's national team. My career


has almost been learning new languages with the welter of foreign


players coming in! It's a huge issue for the team, your statistic of 67%


of foreign players impinges on the opportunities, the pathway of these


good kids but we've got being developed at the academies, they are


not able to force their way into first team squad is because coaches,


many of whom are foreign and don't necessarily have any affiliation to


the England team, because of the pressure on them to win trophies,


they are not going to risk it with young kids. There are exceptions,


Mauricio Pochettino at Spurs does give kids a chance as we saw at the


weekend. There are some managers who are enlightened on this. But too


Fisher. It's huge for the national team because we saw this summer the


England age group teams are doing well, the under 19 groups, the under


20s, what has happened to the senior teams, they are struggling to get of


the group stage of tournaments because too few of these players are


getting opportunities. A big challenge. In 25 years maybe we will


be talking about 50 years of the Premier League. Rick Parry, Henry


Winter, thank you. That's all we've got


time for tonight. But before we go, it emerged over


the weekend that the 18th century erotic classic,


Fanny Hill, had been removed from a university reading


list for being too racy. We didn't want any students who'd


hoped to read it to feel So here's the editor of The Amorist,


Rowan Pelling, with a passage. And now, disengaged from the shirt,


I saw with wonder and surprise... Not the plaything of a boy,


nor the weapon of a man, but a maypole of so enormous


a standard that, had proportions been observed,


it must have belonged Its prodigious size made me shrink


again, yet it could not, without pleasure, behold,


and even venture to feel such a length and breadth of animated


ivory, perfectly well The proud stiffness


of which distended its skin, whose smooth polish and velvet


softness might vie with that of the most delicate of our sex,


and whose exquisite whiteness


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