Browse content similar to 21/08/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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The last solar eclipse to be seen on this continent in this century and | :00:10. | :00:18. | |
not until August the 21st, 2017, will an eclipse be visible from | :00:19. | :00:19. | |
North America,. That day was today - | :00:20. | :00:22. | |
the Great American Eclipse. Millions turned their faces | :00:23. | :00:24. | |
to the sky - from Donald Trump Millions turned their faces to the | :00:25. | :00:34. | |
sky. Why is this awe inspiring, | :00:35. | :00:36. | |
but rational mathematical event And does it have any | :00:37. | :00:38. | |
scientific value? We speak to Nasa's director | :00:39. | :00:41. | |
of planetary science. In just over three hours, | :00:42. | :00:43. | |
Donald Trump is due to make a major speech on military | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
policy on Afghanistan. And I am in Afghanistan as President | :00:47. | :00:52. | |
Trump reveals his new strategy for the war in Afghanistan. | :00:53. | :00:53. | |
We speak to the US's former Ambassador to Afghanistan. | :00:54. | :00:55. | |
After Grenfell - tonight we are finally getting some clarity | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
on how big a safety problem has been uncovered | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
The government now knows of more than 200 high-rises fitted | :01:02. | :01:07. | |
with cladding that does not meet our fire rules. | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
A pulverised city, Isis fighters still hiding out in pockets. | :01:13. | :01:19. | |
Can traumatised residents, and returning refugees | :01:20. | :01:21. | |
This is what liberation looks like. Iraq's second-largest city, just | :01:22. | :01:37. | |
ruins. The bulk of the city is completely destroyed and devastated. | :01:38. | :01:38. | |
There is nothing left. Millions across the United States | :01:39. | :01:43. | |
witnessed the Great American From the Oregon coast | :01:44. | :01:50. | |
to Charleston in South Carolina, people gathered in sport stadiums | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
and on beaches and city roofs as the country | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
was plunged into darkness, coast to coast, for the first | :01:59. | :02:00. | |
time in 100 years. It was said to be the most | :02:01. | :02:07. | |
documented such event in history. Centuries ago, an eclipse | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
was everything from a divine warning The ancient Chinese thought the sun | :02:11. | :02:13. | |
had been eaten by a dragon. No matter the rational explanation, | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
it is still for many an extraordinary moment, | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
when we realise we are just So what's the draw, | :02:21. | :02:22. | |
and can we actually learn We'll hear from Nasa in a moment, | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
but first here's Stephen Smith. I have seen grown men cry at solar | :02:28. | :02:50. | |
eclipses. Across a great swathe of America, and in a break from the | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
norm, people have been taking a holiday and rushing to get out of | :02:55. | :03:01. | |
the sun. A shadow cast by a once-in-a-lifetime solar eclipse. | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
For once, the president did not seem to mind being put in the shade. For | :03:06. | :03:13. | |
90 minutes the eclipse tracked east over 14 states, from one American | :03:14. | :03:17. | |
seaboard to the other, before heading out over the Atlantic. If | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
the eclipse is a highlight in the calendar, consider the men and women | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
who devote themselves to studying solar activity. For then it is a | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
real day in the sun, or rather shadow. I am working on how the sun | :03:33. | :03:38. | |
shines and we keep making progress and understanding how the sun | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
shines, but there are gaps and it is exciting to be outside and have the | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
universe dark and and have this fabulous stuff go on in the sky. The | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
view outside is fabulous. We have tried for a long time to explain | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
this to people and my conclusion is you have to see it to believe it. It | :03:58. | :04:06. | |
is unbelievable. On a red day like this, our earthbound concerns seem | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
suspended and it is possible to sense the war and terror our | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
ancestors must have felt at a celestial event like this -- awe. | :04:16. | :04:25. | |
Not until August the 21st 2017 will another eclipse be visible, 38 years | :04:26. | :04:31. | |
from now. Maybe shadow of the moon fall on a world of peace. ABC News | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
will bring you a report on the next eclipse. Even better, this is Evan | :04:37. | :04:43. | |
Davis on the spot in his eclipse chasing talks. A few observations. | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
The sound changes. Dogs start barking. We heard a cow in the | :04:50. | :04:52. | |
distance and the insect noise changes. Huge temperature drop. We | :04:53. | :04:59. | |
have been in the burning heat, 94 degrees in American money, and | :05:00. | :05:05. | |
suddenly it begins to cool down and become cool. Perhaps the most | :05:06. | :05:13. | |
exciting, just at the edge of the eclipse, as you look at the sun, you | :05:14. | :05:20. | |
catch a bead, which is the sun catching behind the hills and | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
valleys of the craters on the moon. You are seeing the sun deemed behind | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
the rough surface of the moon, as the shadow passes. It is really | :05:31. | :05:37. | |
extraordinary. They are calling this the American eclipse. At a | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
particular American moment. I suppose we do now have a president | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
who really enjoys being the centre of attention. And finds it hard to | :05:48. | :05:57. | |
be eclipsed, if you will. I found something maybe a little funny, that | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
we have moment here where we really are, as Americans, celestial li | :06:03. | :06:10. | |
required to look at something else, to look at something larger and | :06:11. | :06:16. | |
think of ourselves as members of the planet. Others say today is a | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
reminder of what man now understands about the heavens. I have heard | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
people say they are reminded of the awe of things but I think the | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
opposite, that it shows humans have been able to understand the workings | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
and predict this and understand how the stars shine with these details | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
we are trying to improve. This brings the universe to us and | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
humanises our son shows we can understand it. | :06:44. | :06:45. | |
I'm joined from Idaho Falls by Nasa planetary science director | :06:46. | :06:48. | |
And from Wyoming by David Baron, the author | :06:49. | :06:51. | |
Good evening. I can see David Baron in bright sunshine but Jim Greene, | :06:52. | :07:07. | |
you look happy. What was it like the experience? It is the first one I | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
have ever seen but I have to tell you there was not a cloud in the sky | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
and it got dark and it was just beautiful. What did you learn? You | :07:20. | :07:27. | |
have the awe and wonder, but what immediately are you learning from a | :07:28. | :07:33. | |
scientific perspective? Nasa has an array of instruments we tested, some | :07:34. | :07:39. | |
from planes, others from balloons we launched. We launched 57 balloons | :07:40. | :07:46. | |
along the path. They went up to more than 100,000 feet. We performed a | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
variety of experiments. What will that tell us and help us, that we do | :07:52. | :08:02. | |
not know now? I had as a planetary scientist and experiment. A | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
principal investigator David Smith had bacteria we put on two coupons. | :08:09. | :08:16. | |
One on the ground and one on the balloon and we did it to 30 | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
balloons. We went to 100,000 feet. The reason we put the bacteria on | :08:22. | :08:28. | |
it, and it is a hardy, harmless bug, but pervasive in this world, is that | :08:29. | :08:34. | |
we wanted to see if it could survive the conditions. They were special | :08:35. | :08:40. | |
conditions. At 100,000 feet you are above ozone and you get ultraviolet | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
light. You also are at a temperature and pressure with the same | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
conditions as on the surface of Mars. The concept is, camber bugs | :08:51. | :09:00. | |
survive on the surface of Mars? David Baron, you have seen many | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
eclipses and have a rational response in a sense, but for you it | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
is still magical when you watch eclipses. Absolutely. I am a science | :09:10. | :09:16. | |
writer and my background is in science, but chasing eclipses is | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
about emotion. It is the most awe-inspiring spectacle anyone can | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
have on this planet and I'd tell you everyone in their life owes it to | :09:26. | :09:32. | |
themselves to see a total eclipse. After you have seen one you often | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
want to see more. Why? We have a rational response to it but in years | :09:38. | :09:44. | |
past it was seen to be a harbinger of doom, harbingers of happiness. We | :09:45. | :10:00. | |
interview the -- we imbue it with meaning. In ancient times you see | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
this beautiful shining ring of light and people were confused and even | :10:06. | :10:12. | |
today. We know that all is going on is the moon passing between us and | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
the sun but it messes with your head. It looks like no sky you have | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
seen and it just connects you with universe like nothing else because | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
you realise you are looking towards the centre of the solar system and | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
you see with the naked eye what a beautiful object the sun is. It is | :10:31. | :10:38. | |
not just a simple disc in the sky, it has like air. Beautiful tendrils | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
coming off you can only see in a total eclipse. Thank you. | :10:43. | :10:45. | |
It's being reported in the New York Times that | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
in a major foreign policy speech tonight, President Trump | :10:50. | :10:51. | |
will announce a new military push in Afghanistan. | :10:52. | :10:53. | |
One that will put more American military boots on the ground - | :10:54. | :10:56. | |
perhaps as many as 5,000 pairs - in order to ramp up the war | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
against against the mainly Taliban insurgents who have been | :11:01. | :11:02. | |
Trump has been accused by US lawmakers of dragging his heels | :11:03. | :11:09. | |
over an intensification, and a kite was flown that | :11:10. | :11:12. | |
suggested he might want mercenaries to do the job. | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
But tonight, at Fort Myer in Virginia, he is expected | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
to indicate the US military will be the ones | :11:19. | :11:20. | |
We'll hear from a former American ambassador to Afghanistan | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
First, I asked Secunder Kermani in Kabul what the security | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
The levels of violence have been steadily increasing. | :11:29. | :11:34. | |
And some of the statistics are really quite shocking. | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
Last year for example there were nearly 3500 civilian | :11:39. | :11:40. | |
And parts of the country that were previously | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
considered quite safe, like Kabul, for example, | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
Kabul has seen a number of high-profile, quite | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
In fact, not too long ago there was a rocket attack | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
And across the country the Afghan government only controls around | :12:01. | :12:07. | |
Insurgent groups, that's mainly the Taliban, control just over 10%. | :12:08. | :12:15. | |
And they contest nearly a third of the country. | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
One of the criticisms in the past has been that President Obama did | :12:19. | :12:26. | |
commit to sending large numbers of troops back in 2010, 2011, | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
there was around 100,000 American soldiers here in Afghanistan. | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
But he was also quite explicit in saying that he wanted America | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
to withdraw from Afghanistan and set a date for that. | :12:40. | :12:41. | |
And the argument goes that that encouraged | :12:42. | :12:44. | |
the Taliban to effectively wait the Americans out. | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
On the other hand it seems there is no real simple solution | :12:49. | :12:51. | |
The crux of the problem seems to be that whilst many in Afghanistan | :12:52. | :12:57. | |
and internationally believe that peace can only be achieved | :12:58. | :12:59. | |
through some kind of negotiated settlement with the Taliban - | :13:00. | :13:02. | |
because it is not going to be possible to defeat | :13:03. | :13:04. | |
at the moment the Taliban do not really seem to have much | :13:05. | :13:12. | |
of an incentive for coming to the table for talks | :13:13. | :13:14. | |
because they feel they have got the momentum behind them. | :13:15. | :13:17. | |
So what most analysts say needs to happen is there needs to be | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
a greater level of military pressure exerted on the Taliban to encourage | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
them to come and start meaningful negotiations. | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
So how will Afghans take the news this evening of a kind of beefed | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
Well we have to wait and see what exactly President Trump says | :13:35. | :13:40. | |
but certainly the figures in the Afghan government that I have | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
been talking to want to see more American troops here in Afghanistan. | :13:45. | :13:47. | |
Although at the same time they are quite clear | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
that they want to see them in that training and advisory role that most | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
American soldiers are primarily in in Afghanistan at the moment. | :13:57. | :14:00. | |
They want to see Afghan troops take the lead on the battlefield. | :14:01. | :14:06. | |
What they want to see more of is they want greater access | :14:07. | :14:09. | |
to American military technology and aerial capabilities. | :14:10. | :14:12. | |
One thing that many in the Afghan government I think would be quite | :14:13. | :14:15. | |
concerned about would be a greater role for private security firms | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
which is meant to be one of the options that | :14:21. | :14:22. | |
I think that would also cause a great deal of concern amongst many | :14:23. | :14:30. | |
Zalmay Khalilzad is a former Ambassador to Afghanistan and US | :14:31. | :14:37. | |
ambassador to the UN under George W Bush. | :14:38. | :14:39. | |
Good evening Ambassador. Reports coming out of the US of increased | :14:40. | :14:54. | |
troop deployment. Is that what you understand will happen? That is my | :14:55. | :15:00. | |
understanding as well but we will have to wait and see until we hear | :15:01. | :15:07. | |
from the President. He has inherited a difficult situation. He has been | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
very deliberate taking his time, looking at the US objective going | :15:14. | :15:17. | |
forward. Looking at alternative strategies. And we will see what the | :15:18. | :15:26. | |
result is. I hope the strategy he announces will be comprehensive as | :15:27. | :15:32. | |
the review has been. The word is it could be roughly about 5000 troops. | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
Do you think that in this situation when the Taliban seems to be back on | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
the front foot that 5000 US troops will be sufficient for the task? The | :15:43. | :15:51. | |
question is what is the task. If the task is as military leaders say, to | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
stop the momentum of the Taliban and also indicate unlike the previous | :15:58. | :16:02. | |
administration in the US which set a timetable for reducing the forces | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
that it had increased and was indicating it was anxious to get all | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
troops out, which encouraged to tell about not to come to the negotiating | :16:13. | :16:19. | |
table. That this increase plus giving more flexibility to the | :16:20. | :16:25. | |
commanders to use the force as they see fit, plus pressure on Pakistan | :16:26. | :16:32. | |
which is a diplomatic issue of great importance affecting Afghanistan, | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
might change the Taliban calculus, the power -- the Pakistani calculus | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
and therefore encourage negotiations. That is what the | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
objective is and they believe that the troop numbers associated with | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
the other things that I said could produce the results of a negotiated | :16:51. | :16:56. | |
settlement. But we will have to wait and see. Interesting that you talk | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
about pressure in Pakistan which is a US ally but it has been there for | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
a long time but the war goes back 16 years. And tonight not even the | :17:06. | :17:11. | |
whole of ten to say. Why has there been such a long term failure of | :17:12. | :17:17. | |
policy and indeed over the issue of Pakistan, why have they failed to | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
get to grips with Pakistan and its continuing harbour of the Taliban? | :17:23. | :17:29. | |
Afghanistan on the one hand is not what it was 16 years ago and I think | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
it is a mistake to say it has been a failure. Because now Afghanistan has | :17:35. | :17:41. | |
a large security force, it has state institutions that they did not have | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
16 years ago. We needed 100,000 troops only six or seven years ago | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
to prevent the Taliban from winning if you like or prevailing. Now the | :17:52. | :17:57. | |
military are saying we need only 4000, 5000. So that has been a | :17:58. | :18:00. | |
positive change but on the other hand you are right that the strategy | :18:01. | :18:06. | |
to encourage Pakistan to play a constructive role has failed. And we | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
need to and we will have to see what President Trump says about this | :18:12. | :18:16. | |
tonight, how to shed Pakistan from its comfort zone that it can be an | :18:17. | :18:22. | |
ally on the one hand and also act as an anniversary and support the | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
Taliban network. At the start of the interview you said President Trump | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
had been very deliberate and looked at reviews and taken is fine. Others | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
accuse him of dragging its heels. And there was also talk that part of | :18:38. | :18:43. | |
the announcement tonight, which may have come from the Steve Bannon win, | :18:44. | :18:49. | |
that it was not military force but mercenaries. What you think of that? | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
I think there is a role for contractors to assist the military. | :18:55. | :19:02. | |
At the present time we have more contractors in Afghanistan Ben | :19:03. | :19:04. | |
troops. But I do not think that you can subcontract the war to the | :19:05. | :19:11. | |
contractors. Their role is a limited role to be in support of the | :19:12. | :19:14. | |
military. And I believe that is where it will come out tonight. | :19:15. | :19:16. | |
Thank you very much. Today the results of the final | :19:17. | :19:19. | |
significant fire safety test triggered by the Grenfell | :19:20. | :19:22. | |
disaster were released. They seek to help us | :19:23. | :19:24. | |
work out which other buildings are safe or not, | :19:25. | :19:27. | |
by working out what sort of cladding The results make for | :19:28. | :19:29. | |
troubling reading. I'm joined by our Policy | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
Editor Chris Cook. I'll have we got here, just remind | :19:34. | :19:48. | |
us. Just after the Grenfell Tower fired the government began an audit | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
of tall buildings across England to work out of the buildings that had | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
aluminium cladding on the outside, what type of installation did they | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
have and what sort of aluminium facing they had on the exterior. The | :20:01. | :20:04. | |
reason why they wanted to know that was that it is possible to have some | :20:05. | :20:12. | |
kind of slightly combustible installation and some kind of | :20:13. | :20:15. | |
slightly combustible exterior cladding if you have them in the | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
right combinations. If they are properly designed and only used in | :20:21. | :20:23. | |
certain combinations. But they did not know what the safe combinations | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
where. So having done that audit, they have done six fire tests so | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
far, there will be seven, and these are to work out which combinations | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
of materials can be used. So what is the significance of this report? | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
This is the last of the ones that were in doubt, the conclusions are | :20:44. | :20:46. | |
that when you take all the test results together we now know the | :20:47. | :20:53. | |
right children 28 tall buildings across England that have designs of | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
cladding, combinations of integration and aluminium cladding | :20:58. | :21:00. | |
on the outside that is not fire safe. 200 buildings unsafe, how do | :21:01. | :21:10. | |
we get to a situation where we handle that. In principle under the | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
building regulations you should not be able to put up the stuff without | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
going through a rigorous fire test of the sword the government has been | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
doing. But the institutions that we rely on to police that requirement, | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
they basically let us down. One example, the longest standing | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
Private institution that has a lot to do building inspection in the UK, | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
the National house-building Council, Derry esteemed, not a jazzy company, | :21:39. | :21:44. | |
they released guidance last year saying they would sign off | :21:45. | :21:50. | |
combustible cladding and insulation without anyone needing to do any | :21:51. | :21:53. | |
test or any further requirement to show it was safe just because | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
culturally that is what was accepted. Institutions like that who | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
had a responsibility to the public to make sure buildings were safe | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
they basically dropped the ball. They took their eye off fire safety. | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
And now we discover many buildings to not read the rules that we set | :22:12. | :22:12. | |
up. The coalition forces who retook | :22:13. | :22:15. | |
Mosul from Isis have moved on west, where the battle is now for Tal | :22:16. | :22:18. | |
Afar. In their wake, they have | :22:19. | :22:20. | |
left a city, much of it Mosul suffered three years of Isis | :22:21. | :22:22. | |
occupation and then a nine-month 700,000 of the residents, | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
many of them traumatised, But is there anything to come home | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
to and is it really safe from Isis? This special report by Yalda Hakim | :22:32. | :22:42. | |
contains images some viewers The road to Mosul is | :22:43. | :22:44. | |
long and convoluted. To reach even the outskirts | :22:45. | :22:57. | |
of the city you have to navigate The Baghdad government | :22:58. | :23:00. | |
has declared victory. There are still pockets | :23:01. | :23:16. | |
of IS fighters in the old city. And this is what | :23:17. | :23:28. | |
liberation looks like. Iraq's second largest | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
city, just ruins. The bulk of the city is just | :23:34. | :23:42. | |
completely destroyed and devastated. I cannot even begin to imagine | :23:43. | :23:45. | |
what it would have been like for the people trapped | :23:46. | :23:55. | |
in this city. They were not allowed out, | :23:56. | :23:57. | |
Isis wasn't letting them. And there was constant | :23:58. | :23:59. | |
bombardment here. Trapped beneath these ruins | :24:00. | :24:00. | |
there are untold numbers of bodies. This woman is now homeless along | :24:01. | :24:30. | |
with a million other This is the ambulance that has | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
come to transfer me. This doctor is getting to work, | :24:35. | :25:35. | |
the only way he can. I am a volunteer doctor, | :25:36. | :25:46. | |
not a graduate doctor. And now I'm going to the hospital | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
in the west of Mosul. Mosul's only functioning | :25:51. | :25:53. | |
hospital is overwhelmed. There is no one checking the people | :25:54. | :26:17. | |
who are coming and going. And so the security forces | :26:18. | :26:20. | |
are concerned that some of these people could be Isis fighters | :26:21. | :26:23. | |
or Isis supporters. And I'm examining the site of the | :26:24. | :26:34. | |
shrapnel and the depth of the nail. At the height of the fighting | :26:35. | :27:07. | |
the doctor was treating up And not just from injuries | :27:08. | :27:10. | |
but illnesses caused due According to the Army, | :27:11. | :27:17. | |
retreating Isis fighters have rigged 90% of the buildings | :27:18. | :27:50. | |
with improvised explosive devices. Do you have the resources, I mean, | :27:51. | :28:07. | |
do you have enough men to...? But the Iraqi military is now | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
accused of targeting and killing people they suspect | :28:12. | :28:25. | |
of belonging to Isis. The government say they are | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
investigating these allegations. When Islamic State swept | :28:31. | :28:43. | |
into Mosul three years ago the world watched in horror | :28:44. | :28:46. | |
as they unleashed At first many saw them as liberators | :28:47. | :28:47. | |
from an oppressive Shia Mosul University, once home | :28:48. | :29:00. | |
to over a million books. Rare maps, ancient manuscripts | :29:01. | :29:13. | |
and a ninth century Koran This is the college | :29:14. | :29:16. | |
of computer and mathematics. This seat of learning represented | :29:17. | :29:27. | |
everything Isis stood against. Intellectuals like Ali Al Hadidi, | :29:28. | :29:34. | |
a renowned professor of law, I have come to visit | :29:35. | :29:38. | |
the doctor from Mosul Over lunch he explains | :29:39. | :30:14. | |
that it was his profession that ultimately saved him and his family | :30:15. | :30:28. | |
from the wrath of Did that make you nervous, though, | :30:29. | :30:30. | |
that your son would go out Is there fear then that there | :30:31. | :30:57. | |
could be another uprising? The people of Mosul now have to | :30:58. | :31:52. | |
rebuild a broken and divided city. But real reconciliation | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
will be a battle. And all the while, Isis fighters | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
are hiding amongst the population. When is it appropriate to remove | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
statues from our streets and squares and parks, | :32:06. | :32:25. | |
erected to men whose past glories When the city of Charlottesville | :32:26. | :32:27. | |
voted to remove a statue of General Robert E Lee, | :32:28. | :32:34. | |
who commanded the confederate army of North Virginia, | :32:35. | :32:37. | |
the ensuing furore saw KKK, white supremacists and | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
neo-Nazis on the streets, violent clashes with | :32:42. | :32:43. | |
counter-demonstrators, the death of one | :32:44. | :32:47. | |
young woman, and approbrium heaped on Trump for his failure to condemn | :32:48. | :32:55. | |
the actions of far-right groups. In Russia, it's the 80th anniversary | :32:56. | :32:58. | |
of the Great Terror, the purges in which Josef Stalin | :32:59. | :33:00. | |
killed and enslaved millions, and yet new statues to him | :33:01. | :33:03. | |
are springing up in the country, led by Vladimir Putin's | :33:04. | :33:06. | |
admiration of the dictator In a moment, we will be discussing | :33:07. | :33:08. | |
what to do with fallen idols and how But first, here's a Vewsnight | :33:09. | :33:16. | |
on the subject from Dr Rahul Rao, And Rahul Rao joins me now, | :33:17. | :33:22. | |
as does the historian Tim Stanley. Good evening. Let's have a | :33:23. | :35:39. | |
conversation about how you decide all this. He would suggested in his | :35:40. | :35:49. | |
piece that it is possible to consider bringing down the statues | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
of Washington and Thomas Jefferson. I admire him for his honesty and | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
logic because a lot of people would say they want to stop at one set of | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
statues but once you approach the subject from the principle of let us | :36:05. | :36:09. | |
eradicate those things from the past that were morally wrong and not | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
acceptable today, you cannot stop at Confederate statues, you put | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
everything on the table and the problem with that is you create an | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
artificial sense of the past. We try to cleanse it of all things that | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
make no sense morally today and therefore you rewrite the past and | :36:27. | :36:30. | |
create a past that simply was not real. You are rewriting the past? | :36:31. | :36:36. | |
Not at all, I think a lot of these movements objecting to statues are | :36:37. | :36:40. | |
not about rewriting the past. The rash of Confederate monument that | :36:41. | :36:46. | |
scars the American landscape were exercises in revisionist history and | :36:47. | :36:54. | |
built to nurture a view of the Civil War as a noble struggle fought | :36:55. | :36:57. | |
against Northern aggression and removing them help source right a | :36:58. | :36:59. | |
better history of the Civil War. Looking back at the Second World | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
War, and indeed looking at the Spanish Civil War, are you against | :37:05. | :37:10. | |
the removal as has been done, statues of Franco, Mussolini? It is | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
about contemporary culture and context and it must be a legal | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
process, not driven by a particular interest group. Ukraine is removing | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
statues of Lenin, which makes sense to me. By contrast, consider | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
Parliament Square because we are focused on Big Ben today. Who is in | :37:31. | :37:36. | |
the square? You have Winston Churchill, architects of Empire, men | :37:37. | :37:41. | |
with bigoted and unpleasant views. In Parliament Square you have Nelson | :37:42. | :37:47. | |
Mandela. Statues tell the full story. History does not start in | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
leaps and bounds, it is evolution and if you keep all the statues, you | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
then have a full history of Empire for people to read. You cannot | :37:57. | :38:02. | |
remove everything, obliterated his street. It is not about | :38:03. | :38:06. | |
obliterating, the ascetics of celebration are different from the | :38:07. | :38:09. | |
aesthetics of critique. It would be one thing to put the statues in a | :38:10. | :38:15. | |
museum. It is quite another thing to put them on a pedestal literally in | :38:16. | :38:22. | |
a public place. Where do you stop? I could say you would not want a lot | :38:23. | :38:26. | |
of statues of 19th century politicians because they stood | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
against suffrage for women. I do not think any historical figure should | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
be beyond examination and re-evaluation. Does that mean | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
removal? It could mean replacing those statues in a museum. If you | :38:40. | :38:46. | |
put them in private places you do not have a dialogue. Why put them in | :38:47. | :38:51. | |
a museum? These people are so fundamentally immoral, why not get | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
rid of the statue altogether? The objective is not to raise and skill, | :38:57. | :39:03. | |
it is to expose and the renaming of Robert E Leigh Park as an | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
emancipation park tells the history better, that does not glorify | :39:09. | :39:12. | |
slavery that recalls the struggles of those who were enslaved. That is | :39:13. | :39:20. | |
a particular contemporary context but my fear is a lot of the effort | :39:21. | :39:24. | |
to take down statues is not about correcting history but telling a | :39:25. | :39:34. | |
particular Buddhist school... -- a political political... What about | :39:35. | :39:42. | |
Oliver Cromwell. One section of the community to them he was a tyrant | :39:43. | :39:47. | |
and is remembered as a tyrant and to another section of the community in | :39:48. | :39:51. | |
he is not. When you have a divide, how do you decide? When putting up | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
the statue of Cromwell it almost brought the government down it was | :39:56. | :40:01. | |
so controversial. I am catholic and have Irish and my family and | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
Cromwell is a war criminal who shut down Parliament that 100 years on | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
from the statue being erected I understand it is part of British | :40:10. | :40:14. | |
identity and sometimes we lie to ourselves and tell national | :40:15. | :40:18. | |
fantasies and it is part of our identity that Cromwell stood up the | :40:19. | :40:25. | |
Parliamentary sovereignty. Russia, Vladimir Putin seems hell-bent on | :40:26. | :40:30. | |
rehabilitating Josef Stalin. The idea now that people in Russia will | :40:31. | :40:35. | |
look and see the man who murdered their ancestors put on a pedestal. I | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
think we are talking about different examples as if they are equivalent | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
and we need to distinguish between situations where those in power bill | :40:45. | :40:51. | |
statues to ratify their stranglehold and those wanting to put up statues | :40:52. | :40:56. | |
to get a toehold in a public sphere from which they are excluded. Thank | :40:57. | :40:59. | |
you. On a day when we looked | :41:00. | :41:02. | |
to the heavens, we sadly lost a giant of the science | :41:03. | :41:05. | |
fiction literary world. The great Brian Aldiss | :41:06. | :41:07. | |
passed away aged 92 today. One of the pioneers of the genre | :41:08. | :41:09. | |
who used sci-fi to hold up -- | :41:10. | :41:17. | |
he counted everyone from Stanley Kubrick | :41:18. | :41:18. | |
to Agatha Christie, CS Lewis to Tolkein as friends | :41:19. | :41:20. | |
and colleagues. So in his honour, we dug | :41:21. | :41:22. | |
into the BBC interview archive to let him say goodbye | :41:23. | :41:24. | |
in his own words. Really, a novel takes | :41:25. | :41:27. | |
you about a year to write, so you have not got to be bored | :41:28. | :41:29. | |
by it, so you don't plan it. But Doris Lessing told me long ago, | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
no, sorry, it wasn't Doris, Iris said, you must never tell | :41:34. | :41:40. | |
anyone how much you enjoy writing. You must always make out that | :41:41. | :41:48. | |
it's really hard work. Well, it is hard work, | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
but it's also the second most Well, I don't agree with those | :41:53. | :41:54. | |
people who think that science fiction is some kind of prediction | :41:55. | :42:06. | |
of the future. I think it is a metaphor | :42:07. | :42:08. | |
and it is a metaphor There is certainly something in me | :42:09. | :42:13. | |
that urgently needs expression, and it doesn't quite tell me | :42:14. | :42:20. | |
what it is. Hello, Tuesday morning will dawn | :42:21. | :42:41. | |
mild but murky. A lot of | :42:42. | :42:43. |