Browse content similar to 24/08/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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For years the Government believed many international students | :00:07. | :00:07. | |
Today we find out almost none of them do. | :00:08. | :00:13. | |
So what credibility should we give the migration statistics? | :00:14. | :00:18. | |
This new data undermines a lot of what we thought | :00:19. | :00:20. | |
we knew about how many people come to live here. | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
The hottest topic in British politics | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
turns out to be the area in which we've been worst informed. | :00:32. | :00:34. | |
We'll ask a leading Brexiteer and a prominent Remainer, | :00:35. | :00:36. | |
if Government policy has long been based on dodgy data. | :00:37. | :00:38. | |
We've been to the border between Norway and Sweden. | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
Ministers here think it's a model for a future frictionless border | :00:44. | :00:45. | |
between Northern Ireland and the Republic. | :00:46. | :00:47. | |
What you think about the customs here? I think it is completely clap, | :00:48. | :01:01. | |
it takes a long time, it is not easy. -- pony. | :01:02. | :01:14. | |
Hundreds of thousands of teenagers opened their GCSE | :01:15. | :01:16. | |
Do you know what a Grade 4 in maths actually means? | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
And what's the difference between a "good pass" | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
We'll debate the merits of the new marking system. | :01:24. | :01:26. | |
And, shameless cash grab, or the greatest | :01:27. | :01:28. | |
UFC Champion Conor McGregor, and undefeated boxer | :01:29. | :01:30. | |
On the surface today's immigration figures look | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
Net migration has fallen to the lowest level for three years | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
after a surge in the number of EU nationals leaving the UK | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
Net migration, the difference between those entering | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
fell 81,000 to 246,000 in the year to March 2017. | :01:45. | :01:47. | |
from hitting her target to reduce net migration | :01:48. | :01:54. | |
But the figures also reveal that the problem of non EU migrants | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
overstaying their visas is simply not as big an issue | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
Far, far fewer international students end up overstaying | :02:02. | :02:08. | |
their visas than the Home Office has always claimed. | :02:09. | :02:13. | |
Here's our Policy Editor, Chris Cook. | :02:14. | :02:26. | |
VOICEOVER: As Home Secretary, Theresa May picked a fight with | :02:27. | :02:34. | |
universities, in her determination to get net migration down to under | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
100,000 a year, students from outside the EU were a prime target. | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
We welcome students coming to study, but the fact is, too many of them | :02:43. | :02:48. | |
are not returning home as soon as their visa runs out. If they have a | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
graduate job, that is fine, if not, they must return home. So I don't | :02:54. | :03:00. | |
care what university lobbyists say, the rules must be enforced. | :03:01. | :03:07. | |
Students, yes, overstays, no. Overstay as were a critical issue to | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
her, how many of them were there? In migration, the most important data | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
source is the International passenger survey, how we monitor net | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
migration targets. It stations people at ports and airports with | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
clipboard, asking travellers about their duration of stay in Britain | :03:25. | :03:27. | |
and why they came. It is the source of estimates in migration into the | :03:28. | :03:33. | |
country and emigration out of date. When Theresa May gave her speech, | :03:34. | :03:36. | |
the latest figures showed an hundred and 31,009 EU students arriving, but | :03:37. | :03:43. | |
only 38,000 leaving. A gap of 93,000 people. Lots of whom might be | :03:44. | :03:50. | |
overstayers. There was a waiting reason to doubt these numbers, they | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
did not match the sources of data we have, for example, the immigration | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
accords universities have two hold about former students. -- records. | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
These former students also were not showing up in the national Insurance | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
database. -- have to. And they did not show up in surveys like the | :04:08. | :04:10. | |
labour Force survey, where were they? Now we have quite a good | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
answer, new border checks data suggests the international passenger | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
survey is simply not very good. The reliability of the international | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
passenger survey depends upon whether people and set accurately to | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
questions on why are you coming here and do you intend to stay for longer | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
than one-year? For many people, especially students, the answers may | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
not be correct, or indeed, may not be known to the person at the time | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
they are asked the question. The new data shows up how bad IPS has been, | :04:40. | :04:49. | |
we know that 181,000 student Visas expired, and 176,000 were known to | :04:50. | :04:51. | |
have left. The number of overstayers, at most, 4600, 2.6%. A | :04:52. | :04:59. | |
review of student migration has now been commissioned from the | :05:00. | :05:01. | |
Independent migration advisory committee. Clearly, the IPS has been | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
considered as the best possible tool that we have got for determining | :05:08. | :05:13. | |
this. I have argued for a long time, indeed before the migration advisory | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
committee was established, that we needed something that was | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
independent of government, that was verifiable in terms of the | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
evidential base. There was more to the students squeeze than | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
overstaying, she wanted fewer students staying on legitimately, | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
too, but overstayers got outsized importance and so this data matters | :05:36. | :05:43. | |
politically. Today's announcements tell us that government has really | :05:44. | :05:45. | |
listened to the university sector, we very strongly welcome the way in | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
which they are now trying to provide an evidence -based account of the | :05:51. | :05:52. | |
role of international students, and we think what that will allow us to | :05:53. | :05:59. | |
do is create a policy in cooperation with government, especially | :06:00. | :06:02. | |
important after Brexit. Some people have suggested the right response to | :06:03. | :06:05. | |
the student migration data problem is to remove students from the | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
migration target, that does not really make sense. This student data | :06:10. | :06:15. | |
problem, illustrates that one of two things is write about the remaining | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
international passenger survey: if it is making catastrophic errors | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
about the total number of immigration into Britain or there | :06:24. | :06:26. | |
are other huge offsetting errors in other parts of the survey. The | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
passenger survey makes for a pretty lousy migration measure, it should | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
be replaced, the key question today, why the Home Office and Theresa May | :06:37. | :06:39. | |
put so much weight on it for so long. | :06:40. | :06:45. | |
So, if entire chunks of government policy have been crafted around | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
migration figures which are simply inaccurate, as they appear to be, | :06:51. | :06:52. | |
what are the wider ramifications for immigration targets and Brexit? | :06:53. | :06:55. | |
And why has the Home Office, as overseen by Theresa May for 6 | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
years, used data that may have painted a misleading picture? | :06:59. | :07:00. | |
Joining me now is the Labour MP and spokesperson for Open Britain | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
that is campaigning against a so called hard-Brexit, | :07:04. | :07:05. | |
and the Tory MP and prominent Leaver, | :07:06. | :07:13. | |
Good evening, both of you, Peter, you are in a good mood... I will try | :07:14. | :07:25. | |
not to... I will use facts, if I may, we will come to the bigger | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
picture in a moment, as the film showed, the problem of non-EU | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
migrants overstaying in the UK seems to have been widely overstated. What | :07:34. | :07:40. | |
I want to understand is, how are we in a position where the Home Office | :07:41. | :07:41. | |
has been using bogus data? I don't think you can say that, | :07:42. | :07:50. | |
there is an enquiry to... They have called an enquiry, the fact that | :07:51. | :07:53. | |
they have done that would point to a problem. It is good to look at it | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
but today's... There must be a problem. We shall see if there is a | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
problem, don't upset me, now(!)... The real point today about the | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
figures is we have seen a huge drop in net migration by 80,000, lowest | :08:06. | :08:11. | |
for three years. Still a lot... I'm going to come to that point, I made | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
that clear, could you address my question, we are aware of the fact | :08:17. | :08:19. | |
there will be an enquiry, you have said that, is it not concerning | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
two-year and to the rest of the UK, that there has been misleading data | :08:25. | :08:26. | |
that has been coming through the Home Office, a big part of Theresa | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
May's standing up and talking to people about these figures has been, | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
that there is an issue, especially with students, they were used | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
regularly, overstaying Visas, we now know it is tiny, the figure is tiny. | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
I don't know where you are saying everyone is talking about students, | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
my constituents were not talking about students... Your leader was. | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
The issue in the country, however much the BBC wants to move away from | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
this, it is a good news story... You don't seem to be able to answer my | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
question, are you not concerned... I have never been concerned about | :09:05. | :09:07. | |
students coming to this country, I cannot be concerned about things | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
that I have never been concerned about. Your leader has been, let me | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
put a different question to you, Home Secretary for six years, good | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
reputation in that job, and... You does. That is not my own opinion, | :09:20. | :09:26. | |
I'm... I'm not here to have views, you are here to answer questions, | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
and I'm trying to ask these questions... These figures, | :09:31. | :09:33. | |
imposition of review, do they not show that Theresa May, looking -- | :09:34. | :09:45. | |
she has been looked at in a damaging light, "strong and stable" Home | :09:46. | :09:47. | |
Secretary. I don't know where you got the idea that there was a big | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
issue about student numbers, it was not there in the country, I have | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
been relaxed about it, it is right they are included in the figures | :09:56. | :09:58. | |
because that is how... A figure that has now been shown to be | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
misleading... Which figure has been misleading? Which particular figure? | :10:03. | :10:10. | |
Tell me which particular figure. I will tell you... Because, your | :10:11. | :10:13. | |
party, your government, and some of the press that support you have been | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
saying for many years that about 100,000 people were unwelcome, | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
overstaying, should not be here, and a problem. That has been exposed as | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
an utter falsity, as has much of the campaign that you and others were | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
part of to leave the European Union, you should be ashamed and very | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
worried that Theresa May was so closely associated to something that | :10:34. | :10:36. | |
has been proven to be utter rubbish. -- falsehood. That is the point, | :10:37. | :10:43. | |
what you say? I never campaigned in a disgraceful way about student | :10:44. | :10:45. | |
numbers because I have been very relaxed about the student situation, | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
what the problem has been is free movement from the European Union, | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
that has been the issue and today we have seen in courage in signs about | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
a number Rafael in the number of people. You don't want to address | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
that fact but I will bring kneel onto it, Peter Bone is in a | :11:02. | :11:04. | |
celebratory mood, the majority of the country voted to leave the | :11:05. | :11:07. | |
European Union, these figures would say that this is the right direction | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
of travel, surely you see today as a bit of a Democratic victory for | :11:12. | :11:17. | |
those people? I'm not sure what the celebration is for, what Brexit is | :11:18. | :11:18. | |
showing us... Macro Brexodus. Yes, Brexodus, it is | :11:19. | :11:30. | |
damaging, making a contribution to the country, they are leaving... | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
Making a contribution... I want our economy to be the best in the world, | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
more people to contribute to... And I want them to be confident that | :11:41. | :11:43. | |
they can come here. Where British people can be trained and fill | :11:44. | :11:49. | |
roles, absolutely support that. But the simple truth is, in the | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
construction sector, in the leisure sector, in the food and farming | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
sector, there are massive vacancies. Did you or did you not to eat today, | :11:57. | :12:03. | |
kneel, that anti-"Brexit" campaigners are the real patriots... | :12:04. | :12:15. | |
-- tweet. It is not patriotic for them to take jobs away from people | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
there is a finite amount of jobs. You assume that they are taking jobs | :12:20. | :12:22. | |
away from people, I disagree, look at the food and drink Federation | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
report, it shows that one third of their members are worried about | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
having to close as a result of not having British workers to fill... | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
Why don't they pay better, maybe they will get British workers, | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
market forces. The reason I made this Twitter post about being a | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
patriot, I am proud that people want to come to this country to live, | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
study, work, contribute, I'm proud of the contribution they have made | :12:47. | :12:50. | |
to the constituency. I'm very worried about the people leaving and | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
the message they are sending. Because that is the other side of | :12:55. | :12:57. | |
this, to think these are people leaving jobs that will be filled by | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
British people is a mistake, some of them take jobs that will not be | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
replaced. You cannot prove that, that is your take on it. Making | :13:06. | :13:17. | |
Brexodus happen, you are an unpatriotic man. He's entitled to | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
his opinion, I have been called a lot of things by the extreme left, | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
just another one today... Extreme left, if he is the extreme left, | :13:27. | :13:34. | |
what are you? I'm the centre ground. Great democratic debate, the EU | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
referendum, it was wonderful, and the result at the end was to say | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
that would come out of the UN we want to see immigration reduced. | :13:42. | :13:44. | |
That is what is beginning to happen. We asked LA long way off. You got to | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
the figures in the end, even if you ended up not answering my question. | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
Gentlemen, thank you very much for joining us. | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
One of the most acute challenges of Brexit | :14:00. | :14:01. | |
specifically regarding our large land border with the EU in Ireland. | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
There's already been much hand wringing from politicians about how | :14:07. | :14:08. | |
to solve that particular problem and there's plenty more to come | :14:09. | :14:11. | |
Well, one solution that has been floated by the Brexit | :14:12. | :14:14. | |
Secretary David Davis is to mimic the border | :14:15. | :14:16. | |
situation between the EU's Sweden, and Norway, | :14:17. | :14:18. | |
But is it really the holy gail of a frictionless 'soft' border? | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
And a warning, there is some strong language | :14:23. | :14:25. | |
Stretching across 1,000 miles, the border between Sweden and Norway is | :14:26. | :14:43. | |
the largest frontier of the EU and this bridge is by far the busiest | :14:44. | :14:52. | |
crossing. It's said to be the most technologically advanced border in | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
the world and is a model for the frictionless customs border between | :14:58. | :15:00. | |
northern and southern Ireland that politicians so desperately want. An | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
example of how that might be done, the committee will look at the | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
Norway Sweden border where you have, they're both in the sing Market but | :15:09. | :15:14. | |
they straddle the customs union. It's a very open border. How | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
frictionless is it. What do you think about the customs? It takes a | :15:19. | :15:24. | |
long time. It's not necessary. What does it mean for the areas around | :15:25. | :15:32. | |
the border? We have a lot of the people employed, taking care of | :15:33. | :15:34. | |
administrations made up by this border of course. It's an industry | :15:35. | :15:37. | |
of bureaucracy then? Yes, exactly. In 1995, Sweden joined the EU but | :15:38. | :15:52. | |
Norway didn't. Although Norway is in she thinkle and the single market, | :15:53. | :15:59. | |
it's not in the customs union. And that means different laws and taxes | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
on different imports and exports with inevitable problems. There's no | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
import tax on garlic in Norway but there is import tax on garlic in the | :16:10. | :16:14. | |
EU. So if I was in Norway and I decided I wanted to buy some garlic | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
and then I walked over that bridge without declaring it and tried to | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
sell it in Sweden, I would be breaking the law. The garlic example | :16:23. | :16:30. | |
sounds ridiculous, but garlic smuggling actually happens. In 2013, | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
international arrest warrants were placed on two British men for | :16:35. | :16:38. | |
smuggling ?8 million of Chinese garlic into the EU via Norway. And | :16:39. | :16:45. | |
so, customs checks have to take place between Norway and Sweden. | :16:46. | :16:55. | |
These ladies are head of customs on the Norwegian side of the border. | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
This is a Polish lorry? Yes. That is right. You are interested in what is | :17:00. | :17:05. | |
inside it? Yes. He has declared some goods. We have the paper for it and | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
now we have to look if there is something else. To check what is | :17:10. | :17:16. | |
actually in there? Yes. It's doors and windows on the trailers, so I | :17:17. | :17:19. | |
can't see anything other than what he has declared. Quite a lot of work | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
to find out what is in all of these lorries? Yes. This camera helps us a | :17:26. | :17:32. | |
lot. Not all the lorries are scanned, but of those that do, not | :17:33. | :17:38. | |
everyone behaves themselves. Yes. This is all the things... Alcohol | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
and cigarettes are considerably cheaper in Sweden and taxes are | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
lower on things like textiles. So if you haven't declared them, they get | :17:49. | :17:54. | |
confiscated. Norway and Sweden collaborate closely and the customs | :17:55. | :17:57. | |
process is almost completely automated. You can even download an | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
app so that you can declare your goods on your phone. But truckers | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
still have to stop for between five and ten minutes, and much longer if | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
there are queues. Some truckers are fine with that. What do you think | :18:12. | :18:14. | |
about the trucker process? It's not a problem for me, I'm from Sweden so | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
it's fine. Others are less enthusiastic. The people here say it | :18:20. | :18:25. | |
takes about ten minutes? That's not correct. If you come here on a | :18:26. | :18:32. | |
Sunday evening, first I have to wait two hours. So the queue takes a long | :18:33. | :18:34. | |
time? Yes. They say they've tried to prioritise | :18:35. | :18:54. | |
things here, according to the Mayor. We have this year managed to get rid | :18:55. | :19:00. | |
of two or three more of them. When we first joined the European Union, | :19:01. | :19:09. | |
the ambulance in Sweden had to go via the custom control in Norway. | :19:10. | :19:16. | |
And they were supposed to pay for the different drugs and equipment | :19:17. | :19:18. | |
they had in the ambulance and they'll have the money back when | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
they returned. But carrying a sick person, it wasn't possible to go via | :19:24. | :19:30. | |
the custom control. That wasn't an easy thing to solve because it was | :19:31. | :19:33. | |
obvious to everyone that you can't have it like that. But there's one | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
key detail that makes this border so attractive to British politicians - | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
that a bridge just down the river from this crossing helpfully | :19:44. | :19:46. | |
illustrates. You may notice something different on this bridge | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
between Sweden which is just over there and Norway behind me. And that | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
is that there aren't any trucks or lorries on it. And that's for a | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
reason. There are ten customs checks between Norway and Sweden and | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
traders have to use these routes. Other crossings don't have customs | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
checks and are monitored by cameras. Last week, Newsnight's David | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
Grossman illustrated the soft border Ireland currently has. Wanna see how | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
soft this border is right now? That is van is in the republic, now it's | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
in the UK. The only hint it's gone from one country to another, the | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
speed limit signs go from metric to imperial. If the UK were to emulate | :20:29. | :20:35. | |
the Swedish Norwegian model for a normal punter not in the import | :20:36. | :20:38. | |
export business, they really won't notice much of a difference. For | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
truckers, it's a different story. There is hope for a true | :20:43. | :20:48. | |
frictionless border though. Sweden and Norway intend to pilot next year | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
using number plate recognition in order to automatically approve some | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
vehicles. Can it be done technically, can something scan the | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
lorries? Yes, they can scan the lorries and the registration plates. | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
And that technology exists? The technology is there already. It's | :21:07. | :21:11. | |
not implemented, it's not installed. To implement this technology, Martin | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
says, means changing legislation which Norway, Sweden and the EU | :21:16. | :21:25. | |
needs to approve. Not an easy task. David Davis is right to say that the | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
Swedish Norwegian border is something to look at. But is it | :21:30. | :21:31. | |
frictionless? Well, not quite. This year 16-year-olds could be | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
forgiven for feeling like they need an extra GCSE | :21:37. | :21:43. | |
to understand their exam results. This morning students in England | :21:44. | :21:46. | |
received a mixture of numbers Numbers from one to nine | :21:47. | :21:49. | |
for English and Maths and the traditional A, | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
B, C letters for everything else. Grade 4 itself is | :21:54. | :21:56. | |
a deemed as a 'pass'. Grade 5 is said to be | :21:57. | :22:01. | |
a 'strong pass' splitting And for the brightest students - | :22:02. | :22:04. | |
the old 'A star' and 'A' grades Grade 9 is the very top mark - | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
and only achieved by a very The new system will be rolled | :22:10. | :22:16. | |
out across all subjects The government claims this | :22:17. | :22:19. | |
it is designed to make GCSEs harder, will drive up standards - | :22:20. | :22:25. | |
but will the reforms And which students could risk | :22:26. | :22:28. | |
getting lost in a new setup, already facing criticism | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
for favouring the most able pupils? Joining me now are the outgoing head | :22:33. | :22:36. | |
of Bedford Free School, Mark Lehain who is leaving to persue | :22:37. | :22:39. | |
a career in education policy. Laura McInerney, Editor | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
of Schoolsweek who used to be And Francis Gilbert - | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
a teacher for 20 years and was one of the founders of the Local Schools | :22:48. | :22:55. | |
Network. Is it worth the bother to have this | :22:56. | :23:02. | |
complete change of the system? I think in the end it will be | :23:03. | :23:05. | |
actually. I've been up since early because it was results day at my | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
school and it's been a really, really positive buzzy day and | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
there's been lots of lovely news to share with our students. From our | :23:15. | :23:17. | |
students and talking to colleagues in other schools, students have got | :23:18. | :23:20. | |
their head around the fact that they have a mixture of grades this year | :23:21. | :23:23. | |
and it will be the same again next sun ever. -- summer. We are good at | :23:24. | :23:30. | |
getting ourade around the system. But what is the benefit to the | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
change? I'm also a maths teacher as well as a head teacher so I've | :23:36. | :23:41. | |
taught the big fat massive GCSE and I've loved it. The students have | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
done the foundation paper, grappling topics they might not have seen | :23:47. | :23:48. | |
before. More challenging? Absolutely. And students have been | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
getting stuck in, the top end. Let's talk about those in the middle. | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
Papers will be filled with the eights, nines, but what about people | :23:59. | :24:01. | |
around the four and five mark, Laura, does the new system hurt them | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
more? This is where we have got a slightly strange situation because | :24:07. | :24:09. | |
the Government have said the four is a standard pass and the five is a | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
strong pass and it's not clear what that means. There is a concern that | :24:14. | :24:16. | |
around one in five children who last year would have got a C which was | :24:17. | :24:20. | |
just considered a pass and would get you into university and could get | :24:21. | :24:23. | |
you into a job for example. Or an apprenticeship? Yes, which require a | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
C. Now if those people ask for a five, there's one in five this year | :24:29. | :24:31. | |
who got a four that might miss out. So we have a slightly odd situation | :24:32. | :24:37. | |
in the middle and the Government haven't done a lot to clear that up. | :24:38. | :24:41. | |
Employers have already said they're confused by this. They're left in | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
limbo? Employers have always been confused. When you look at the | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
surveys, they weren't clear on GCSEs either. But they're OK now going | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
into college but we don't know what university is going to do. | :24:56. | :25:01. | |
16-year-olds today might feel OK but in two years' time they might face a | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
barrier. That is what is confusing. Do you see any merit in being | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
ambitious and making the exams tougher and splitting the grade at | :25:11. | :25:13. | |
the top and sometimes lower down because actually we need to | :25:14. | :25:15. | |
understand where people are coming in? I would Dispute they're not | :25:16. | :25:25. | |
tougher at all. I would say this massive concentration in on teaching | :25:26. | :25:29. | |
in a test in a few hours on the other hand measures someone's | :25:30. | :25:32. | |
ability over their whole school career is really troubling. I would | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
get rid of the GCSEs completely and have us rethink the whole system | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
because all students now go on to stay until 18 and we need to give | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
them a rounded creative education which these GCSEs are not doing. I | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
specialise in English and I certainly know that I've seen too | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
many classes where it's just teaching to the test and the | :25:56. | :25:58. | |
teachers aren't to blame for this, it's because central Government have | :25:59. | :26:01. | |
got an obsession with the league tables. But that's not just come | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
about with this system? No, it was there before. This Government have | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
put rocket boosters on that. Mark, do you recognise any of that, | :26:11. | :26:13. | |
teaching to test, it's not a full education now, it's all about the | :26:14. | :26:16. | |
exam? No, of course I would dispute that. That's not why we go into the | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
profession. But it might be the system... It's exam factories up and | :26:22. | :26:27. | |
town the countries, the teachers aren't to blame, it's the | :26:28. | :26:29. | |
politicians. Let him come back on that. Exam factories? We have always | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
had the challenge about making sure you get the results at the end. That | :26:35. | :26:37. | |
is nothing to do with the new grade systems. For me, the joy has been | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
walking into the classes in my school. We are a new school so we | :26:43. | :26:45. | |
have had to switch from getting our head around the old system to the | :26:46. | :26:48. | |
new system in a short time. The joys has been going into the lessons and | :26:49. | :26:54. | |
seeing my colleagues step up. What about creative subjects, drama, | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
music, being cut back for the ex-tense of... No, no. The obsession | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
with these kind of other... With respect, that's a leadership | :27:04. | :27:05. | |
decision within a school. We have increased the art. That | :27:06. | :27:21. | |
won't better GCSEs. It has everything to do with the way the | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
Government's obsessively focussed on a few narrow subjects. I won't get | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
you to agree on this, but Laura, you would like to see a return to | :27:31. | :27:36. | |
O-levels wouldn't you and another system entirely? We have had a lot | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
of change already so anything where we say rip everything up won't go | :27:42. | :27:44. | |
down well. It would save millions of pounds. Let her finish. The original | :27:45. | :27:50. | |
plan Michael Gove wanted was to reform things at the top end, we | :27:51. | :27:53. | |
needed to get that differentiation for children who were very, very | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
bright. What got missed was his plan to do something at the bottom end | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
which is that children get very, very low grades. Some will have got | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
a three, two or one and it's being considered a fail. Michael Gove's | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
original plan was almost to split GCSEs in half and to enable some | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
students to do more deeper but less content, if you like, so they could | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
learn maybe two topics in history instead of four, do those over the | :28:19. | :28:24. | |
two years and get one half of the GCSEs, then get the other half | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
between the age of 16-18. These reforms are only helped the | :28:30. | :28:32. | |
brightest and we have left the rest without any reform at all. Let me | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
bring you back in, Mark. I know you have set up this school, you are | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
leaving it to do other things but staying within education. It's very | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
well you saying it's been a lovely day with celebrations, but parents | :28:46. | :28:48. | |
and students will be watching who it wasn't a lovely day for. What are | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
you doing to support those who now have no idea whether their four or | :28:54. | :28:58. | |
five means they can get to the new stage because nobody really knows | :28:59. | :29:01. | |
what it means? You can never know what the future holds but in the | :29:02. | :29:05. | |
end, we have been really good at addressing changes we have had in | :29:06. | :29:08. | |
the past. What have you said to those pupils today? Just as we have | :29:09. | :29:11. | |
seen universities this year, just what they have been asking students | :29:12. | :29:15. | |
in order they can fill their courses, it's inevitable you will | :29:16. | :29:18. | |
find universities are not the answer. These pupils are the Guinea | :29:19. | :29:22. | |
pigs and there's been a lot of change. Regardless of your view, we | :29:23. | :29:27. | |
have had three Education Ministers in a matter of years and there's | :29:28. | :29:30. | |
been huge changes. What have you said to pupil who is 're in limbo? | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
The most important thing they can do now is to make sure that what they | :29:35. | :29:40. | |
do next they do really, really well, be it an apprenticeship, A-levels or | :29:41. | :29:47. | |
something else. Everyone has to stay in training until they're 18. If | :29:48. | :29:53. | |
they haven't achieved the grade they need, they have a year or two to | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
sort it out. I have to say, we have got to give our profession, students | :29:59. | :30:00. | |
and families the credit because they've stepped up to the challenge | :30:01. | :30:05. | |
when other things have happen and we are really good on that. Thank you | :30:06. | :30:06. | |
very much. teacher! Spirited debate. Six hundred thousand of us visit | :30:07. | :30:16. | |
Morocco on holiday every year. But there is a dark side | :30:17. | :30:19. | |
to the country that most of us just associate with sun | :30:20. | :30:22. | |
and seaside and soukhs. Last week a group of teenagers | :30:23. | :30:24. | |
collectively raped a 24-year-old in a bus in broad | :30:25. | :30:26. | |
daylight in Casablanca. No one stopped them | :30:27. | :30:29. | |
and the woman did not report it. The attack was filmed and put | :30:30. | :30:32. | |
on social media sparking outrage. And yesterday protests took place | :30:33. | :30:34. | |
across the country in solidarity Amnesty International's Fadwa | :30:35. | :30:37. | |
Elbooamrawee joins us from Rabat. Good evening. How big a problem... | :30:38. | :31:01. | |
This... And how big a problem is sexual violence against women in | :31:02. | :31:10. | |
Morocco? Indeed, this is not a first-time issue, as you mentioned, | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
this is part of a widespread phenomenon that has been happening | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
in this country for years now. As a human rights organisation, along | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
with the other national and international organisations, we have | :31:24. | :31:26. | |
been calling for years for the government is to be more proactive | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
and find real solutions to put an end to its violence against women. | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
And girls, especially in the public space. So far, we are still quite | :31:36. | :31:39. | |
disappointed with the way things have been going on, with, you know, | :31:40. | :31:46. | |
the governmentgovernment's work on this issue, as we have seen over the | :31:47. | :31:48. | |
latest reaction from the government on this video and rape incidents on | :31:49. | :31:58. | |
the bus, we are still disappointed. They have been mentioned vaguely, in | :31:59. | :32:00. | |
clear terms that the government will be working on a strategy, and a | :32:01. | :32:04. | |
mechanism to put an end to all of this. But then again, the | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
government, through unclear statements, does not clarify | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
exactly, you know, how it is supposed to work on this. They are | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
not clarifying the nature of the strategy. And so... We are still... | :32:19. | :32:26. | |
Can I just... I want to bring to the audience's attention, I did not know | :32:27. | :32:31. | |
this, only in 2014, a matter of three years ago, has it become | :32:32. | :32:38. | |
against the law to rape an underage girl, and get out of prosecution by | :32:39. | :32:41. | |
marrying her! Have attitudes changed since the law was amended? Not much, | :32:42. | :32:48. | |
to be honest, this is again another issue that we have to deal with and | :32:49. | :32:54. | |
we are still trying to work on this, we are talking about a very | :32:55. | :32:58. | |
conservative society that puts, you know, higher priority on the honour | :32:59. | :33:05. | |
of the family. That puts priority on the honour of the girl of the family | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
and society in general. We are not considering a woman as an equal | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
citizen, and, again, when we talk about mentalities, regarding sexual | :33:16. | :33:23. | |
harassment, rape, there is a taboo that goes into it, this is a | :33:24. | :33:26. | |
patriarchal society, and the fact that since 2014, as an organisation | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
we have been working through a global campaign on putting an end to | :33:32. | :33:37. | |
violence. The one thing that is still very clear is that we are | :33:38. | :33:42. | |
still a long way ahead in terms of changing mentalities, and creating | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
actual real awareness about the issues. Thank you very much for | :33:48. | :33:54. | |
talking to us and giving us that perspective from Amnesty | :33:55. | :33:55. | |
International, talking about Morocco and it is an interesting insight and | :33:56. | :33:58. | |
a sad one. South Africa's main opposition party | :33:59. | :34:05. | |
is claiming that a major UK public relations firm has been found | :34:06. | :34:07. | |
in breach of an industry code of conduct following a controversial | :34:08. | :34:10. | |
social media campaign. As we reported a few weeks ago, | :34:11. | :34:12. | |
Bell Pottinger has been accused of inflaming racial tensions | :34:13. | :34:15. | |
in the country with the aim of boosting the image | :34:16. | :34:17. | |
of the President, Jacob Zuma. Manvine Rana has been | :34:18. | :34:19. | |
following the story. Good evening. Give us the background | :34:20. | :34:28. | |
to all of this and what have we specifically learnt today? So, a | :34:29. | :34:35. | |
disciplinary hearing heard on this on Friday, according to the | :34:36. | :34:40. | |
published timetable, if it had been accelerated we would have known | :34:41. | :34:41. | |
today, that has not happened, work in South Africa, | :34:42. | :34:58. | |
hired by the Gupta family, who have made millions in the last couple of | :34:59. | :35:03. | |
decades. This action was ruled by the opposition, it has become a huge | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
politically totemic action, it is a proxy war against president Jacob | :35:09. | :35:11. | |
Zuma himself, he is very close to this family, gather they are accused | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
in South Africa of corruption and political influence on such an epic | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
scale that it is called state capture, buying up a state to get | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
government contract. Bell Pottinger Were brought in to bring attention | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
away from this, by launching a racially divisive campaign, | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
basically encouraging South Africans to blame their economic woes not on | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
the president, and his policies, but on Wightman Okoli capital, the white | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
businesses who have always operated in the country. What impact, from | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
what we have learnt today, will it have on Bell Pottinger? -- but on | :35:47. | :35:56. | |
white minority capital. They will announce sanctions they will take on | :35:57. | :36:01. | |
September four, a couple of actions, they could expel them from the body | :36:02. | :36:05. | |
from itself, they could suspend them, they could still work in the | :36:06. | :36:09. | |
industry but since the scandal has broken, they have lost a number of | :36:10. | :36:13. | |
clients. I interviewed this year, he admitted as much then, they are | :36:14. | :36:17. | |
losing even more now, once found guilty by the industry body, it | :36:18. | :36:21. | |
becomes hard for... Why do you think they may have been found guilty by | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
the industry body? It has become so politically toxic, to be honest, | :36:26. | :36:29. | |
since the interview I did with the CEO, I have been contacted by a | :36:30. | :36:32. | |
number of people in the industry who saw this as looking so bad for the | :36:33. | :36:37. | |
PR industry at large, they want to detox altogether, and they feel that | :36:38. | :36:42. | |
if nothing is in to be done, the PR industry starts to look very bad. | :36:43. | :36:45. | |
Now, there has been remiss in the last two days that the CEO has | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
resigned, he denies it, we will wait and see, being a PR firm, if you | :36:51. | :36:54. | |
would resign, you would probably wait... Thank you very much. | :36:55. | :37:03. | |
Newsnight doesn't usually cover much sport. | :37:04. | :37:10. | |
Frankly, we know our strengths, but the most hyped | :37:11. | :37:13. | |
and possibly most absurd, sporting event of the year | :37:14. | :37:15. | |
takes place this weekend so we're giving it a go. | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
The undefeated 40-year-old Floyd Mayweather has come out of | :37:20. | :37:27. | |
retirement to take on the ultimate fighting Champion, Ireland's Conor | :37:28. | :37:28. | |
McGregor. -- The undefeated 40-year-old world | :37:29. | :37:45. | |
champion Floyd Mayweather has come out of retirement to meet not a | :37:46. | :37:48. | |
fellow boxer, but an Ultimate Fighting Champion. Ireland's | :37:49. | :37:49. | |
29-year-old Conor McGregor. For the uninitiated, UFC was once described | :37:50. | :37:51. | |
as no-holds barred human cock-fighting, but mixed martial | :37:52. | :37:53. | |
artist Conor McGregor looks to be the tournament's first fighter to | :37:54. | :37:55. | |
gain the recognition and respectability of mainstream boxing. | :37:56. | :37:57. | |
Saturday night's fight will be McGregor's boxing debut, but that | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
has not held back the hype and the trash talk. | :38:03. | :38:14. | |
Mayweather is also gambling a lot in the ring, | :38:15. | :38:16. | |
he will surpass fellow American Rocky Marciano's perfect | :38:17. | :38:18. | |
record of 49 fights without defeat if he beats McGregor. | :38:19. | :38:20. | |
But they both also have a lot to gain. | :38:21. | :38:22. | |
McGregor's in line for a $100 million payday | :38:23. | :38:24. | |
and Mayweather as much as $200 million. | :38:25. | :38:27. | |
And they aren't the only ones raking in the cash, the broadcasters | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
are set to profit as well, the fight's expected | :38:34. | :38:35. | |
to break the record of 4.6 million pay-per-view buys set | :38:36. | :38:41. | |
by Mayweather when he defeated Manny Pacquiao two years ago. | :38:42. | :38:43. | |
So is this just a shameless cash grab, or will it be the greatest | :38:44. | :38:46. | |
Joining me now from Las Vegas is Dan Hardy, a former ultimate | :38:47. | :38:57. | |
fighter and now a Sky commentator for Saturday night's | :38:58. | :39:00. | |
show, alongside the Editor of Boxing News magazine, | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
Are you expecting great things? I am, we are already experiencing | :39:06. | :39:16. | |
great things, breaking records left, right and centre, the fanfare, the | :39:17. | :39:20. | |
hysteria, something we have never seen, certainly in mixed martial | :39:21. | :39:23. | |
arts and not in boxing either, it is a special occasion. | :39:24. | :39:25. | |
It will bring the best out of these fighters. Conor McGregor's first | :39:26. | :39:32. | |
ever boxing match is this, against Floyd Mayweather, undefeated, he is | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
not a professional boxer...? Has been thrown in at the deep end but | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
this is where Conor McGregor's thrives, he has come through mixed | :39:42. | :39:44. | |
martial arts and rewritten the rules around self-promotion, around | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
performances inside the arena as well. The is a special athlete and | :39:50. | :39:53. | |
they do not come along very often, when you have a person like Conor | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
McGregor, he transcends the sport, he can step outside the octagon and | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
step into the boxing ring. We have to give him a chance. Nothing to do | :40:02. | :40:04. | |
with smelling the money, of course(!) LAUGHTER | :40:05. | :40:08. | |
Do you think the boxing world has underestimated Conor McGregor? You | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
have heard he's pretty special. I don't think we have, actually, he | :40:13. | :40:18. | |
certainly has something about him, magnetic personality, fantastic | :40:19. | :40:21. | |
fight in his own discipline, we know he has had a bit of boxing | :40:22. | :40:24. | |
experience as a youngster, he has been training exceptionally hard, | :40:25. | :40:27. | |
there has been good reports from his training camp. To make the jump to | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
fight somebody who has been boxing since three years old is arguably | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
one of the greatest fighters of all time and one of the best defensive | :40:36. | :40:38. | |
fighters of all time, that is a humongous, almost ludicrous leap. A | :40:39. | :40:43. | |
huge amount of hype about this, surely good for the boxing world? | :40:44. | :40:48. | |
There is certainly a lot of hype about it but my concern is... Where | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
does this spectacle appeal stop? Just because lots of people want to | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
see something, does not make it OK, where do we go next? What if Conor | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
McGregor wins, for example, and decides he wants to fight Anthony | :41:03. | :41:04. | |
Joshua, and because everybody wants to see that fight, have we got to | :41:05. | :41:12. | |
make it, even though it is insane... Coming back, boxing is hardly... You | :41:13. | :41:15. | |
could hardly say it is noble, Floyd Mayweather's nickname is money, it | :41:16. | :41:20. | |
is hardly as if people get into it for the noble art, isn't it. -- | :41:21. | :41:25. | |
"Money". Know, and I did not suggest that is the case at all, no one | :41:26. | :41:30. | |
could deny that the vast majority of Floyd Mayweather's career has been | :41:31. | :41:33. | |
fuelled by his need and desire for riches. So they are pretty evenly | :41:34. | :41:40. | |
matched, then, maybe. Evenly matched, bank balance, they could | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
have a good fight! In terms of boxing, absolutely not evenly | :41:45. | :41:48. | |
matched. Your money is on Floyd? Yes, my money is on Floyd, my money | :41:49. | :41:58. | |
is on "Money". I'm commentating for Sky Sports, I have to stay | :41:59. | :42:01. | |
impartial... I'm here to its blame basically, there is a chance for | :42:02. | :42:06. | |
Conor, cannot count him out, Floyd Mayweather is great but he's 40, out | :42:07. | :42:10. | |
of the sport for two years, 49 training camps will take it out of | :42:11. | :42:14. | |
you. And problems, not necessarily the hardest puncher. His technique, | :42:15. | :42:19. | |
defensive boxing, is excellent. The reason people are tuning in is | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
because of Conor McGregor, no boxer in the world would have brought | :42:24. | :42:25. | |
Floyd "Money" Mayweather out of retirement. No other UFC fighter | :42:26. | :42:31. | |
could generate as much money as this. It will be on five live. | :42:32. | :42:37. | |
That is all that we have time for. Naga Muchetty will be here tomorrow | :42:38. | :42:43. | |
night. I'll see you soon. Goodnight. Weather feels like it is stuck in a | :42:44. | :42:57. | |
rut, very similar whether | :42:58. | :42:58. |