31/08/2017 Newsnight


31/08/2017

Emily Maitlis presents in-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines.


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7,000 gambling addicts tried to ban themselves from betting.

:00:07.:00:10.

So why did a major firm think they were still fair game?

:00:11.:00:12.

Tonight, we ask why the government is failing to protect

:00:13.:00:18.

Formally they tell us nothing's been agreed on the Brexit

:00:19.:00:27.

negations but Nick Watt's been hearing rumblings.

:00:28.:00:29.

I've learnt intriguing details about what that the UK

:00:30.:00:31.

might be prepared to pay on the Brexit divorce bill.

:00:32.:00:34.

A human catastrophe - that's the UN's verdict on how

:00:35.:00:37.

we treat disabled people - is it fair?

:00:38.:00:45.

The waters are receding in Houston, but the clear up

:00:46.:00:47.

We're with the rescue operation as more families

:00:48.:00:50.

Imagine the force required to move this thing from wherever it has come

:00:51.:01:01.

from. It's good food in it and everything. You know that water is

:01:02.:01:10.

strong but you never really know how strong it is until you've seen what

:01:11.:01:19.

it does. What did you do? You know there's only so much, I'm a man, I

:01:20.:01:23.

can't do no more than that. This is God's hand.

:01:24.:01:29.

And few in the political classes appear to be taking it seriously.

:01:30.:01:39.

More than 2 million people are at risk of addiction, and today

:01:40.:01:42.

it was revealed that 7,000 people, who'd voluntarily put

:01:43.:01:44.

themselves on a nationwide banned list were allowed by one firm -

:01:45.:01:47.

The firm, which says it is committed to being responsible,

:01:48.:01:53.

allowed one of those on the list to gamble over

:01:54.:02:00.

It encouraged another addict to lose his children's home

:02:01.:02:03.

In fact, the company continued to invite him to gamble online even

:02:04.:02:07.

when he was in prison - serving time for fraud

:02:08.:02:09.

Tonight, as the company faces a fine of ?8 million,

:02:10.:02:14.

we talk to him live about how the system got it so wrong.

:02:15.:02:17.

And we ask why the problem has gone ignored,

:02:18.:02:23.

when both Labour and the Conservatives are so eager

:02:24.:02:25.

capitalism and that need for corporate responsibility.

:02:26.:02:34.

# Can't read Mike, can't read my, can't read my poker face. #.

:02:35.:02:44.

Today's fine sounds like a record one.

:02:45.:02:46.

But it's a drop in the ocean for an industry that brings

:02:47.:02:49.

Its growth and its success can be traced back to 2005,

:02:50.:02:53.

and to one policy - Labour deregulated gambling,

:02:54.:02:55.

and that heralded the start of major change.

:02:56.:02:57.

Adverts on television for the first time, the rise of casinos,

:02:58.:02:59.

and a massive boom in fixed betting terminals - online access

:03:00.:03:02.

which made it possible to lose money anytime, anywhere.

:03:03.:03:06.

At the time, the Conservatives in opposition warned

:03:07.:03:09.

that the legislation didn't contain safeguards to protect

:03:10.:03:11.

So why has nothing changed? Last month there were reports that the

:03:12.:03:22.

Chancellor had rowed back on his review into fixed odds betting

:03:23.:03:28.

terminals, critics believed he had been swayed by the huge tax revenues

:03:29.:03:30.

they had brought in. Today 888 admitted that a technical

:03:31.:03:37.

glitch had allowed the 7,000 customers who'd put themselves

:03:38.:03:39.

on the banned list to keep on gambling -

:03:40.:03:41.

a total of ?50 million in total. The commission who fined the company

:03:42.:03:52.

said their failure to recognize the problem was so significant it

:03:53.:03:55.

resulted in criminal activity. Is that enough for the government

:03:56.:03:57.

to sit up and listen? In a moment we'll speak to Labour's

:03:58.:04:00.

deputy leader, Tom Watson. First, joining me from

:04:01.:04:06.

Sheffield is David Bradford, a gambling addict who stole money

:04:07.:04:07.

from his employer to feed his habit. He was one of those who put himself

:04:08.:04:11.

on the voluntary banned list. The betting firm 888

:04:12.:04:14.

continued to pursue him. David, it is very nice of you to

:04:15.:04:28.

join us. Talk us for your experience, how much were you

:04:29.:04:33.

gambling at her lowest point? I gambled everyday, every evening. I

:04:34.:04:38.

worked away a lot so in that sort of after-work period, not only did it

:04:39.:04:43.

cover the boredom, and sucked me into gambling online, I sought to

:04:44.:04:51.

get that one big win that probably all gamblers tried to get, to

:04:52.:04:57.

collate all my financial worries. Did you ever win big? Never.

:04:58.:05:02.

Obviously to win big is relative to come at you think is not very much.

:05:03.:05:07.

But from my point of view I never won big. I never lost big other but

:05:08.:05:13.

I lost and that is what the industry is all about, making us all losers

:05:14.:05:18.

and shareholders gritter. What do you think you spent on gambling

:05:19.:05:22.

through the course of your life. I could not give you a figure and I

:05:23.:05:25.

don't think it matters what the figure is it is what it does to you,

:05:26.:05:30.

your self esteem, your family, and your friends who all have a

:05:31.:05:35.

different view and you once they find out that you have been not only

:05:36.:05:41.

deluding yourself but hiding a secret sort of problem from all

:05:42.:05:45.

these people that you are closest to. You went to prison for fraud,

:05:46.:05:50.

and when you were there, you still kept receiving text messages

:05:51.:05:56.

inviting you to gamble online. Yes. I'd best correct the way you put

:05:57.:06:00.

that. Obviously I didn't have a mobile phone in prison. Accent my

:06:01.:06:04.

own mobile phone that was at home, my son had two attempts to stop

:06:05.:06:11.

these texts coming through, which was a significant task for him to

:06:12.:06:16.

have to do. And did the company respond to his requests to stop?

:06:17.:06:21.

From what I understand, not immediately. It took many attempts

:06:22.:06:28.

before they actually did stop. For me, this is a good example of how

:06:29.:06:33.

the industry sees its duty of care, which is something that they only

:06:34.:06:42.

pay lip service to. This measly fine today will do next to nothing in

:06:43.:06:47.

awakening some kind of customer care that goes a bit deeper than it does

:06:48.:06:53.

now. Indeed, many people like me will be, and will always continue to

:06:54.:06:59.

have the problem, even if it is dormant, you know, I strongly

:07:00.:07:04.

believe in what many doctors have said, which is that this is a mental

:07:05.:07:09.

problem. Which is obviously a mental health problem. And should be

:07:10.:07:14.

treated that way, not as just some people being reckless with money. So

:07:15.:07:19.

what was the impact it really hard on your life, can you put it into

:07:20.:07:25.

words. In a sense, in no particular order but for me, I've never been

:07:26.:07:29.

able, from the time in prison which was over three years ago now, I've

:07:30.:07:33.

never been able to get a job anything like the one I had and I am

:07:34.:07:37.

now working up to 70 hours a week just to stand still doing mundane

:07:38.:07:43.

job. I have no self-esteem. I have low self belief. Every time I make a

:07:44.:07:47.

decision I have to double check and making it in the right way, -- I'm

:07:48.:07:53.

making it in the right way. And to load that further, the emotional

:07:54.:08:00.

burden on my family, who feel cheated by me, well, quite rightly,

:08:01.:08:08.

that is what did happen. I seemed not to care one bit about them and I

:08:09.:08:16.

was making decisions which in a sense have now ruined our lives. If

:08:17.:08:20.

you could ask for one thing to change in the way that the industry

:08:21.:08:27.

operates now, what would that be. I think one is falling short of the

:08:28.:08:31.

many things I would like to ask them for but I believe a strategy of care

:08:32.:08:40.

that steps in and assists, in a sense, throws a parachute to a

:08:41.:08:46.

troubled gambler, there should be more than one NHS surgery dealing

:08:47.:08:52.

with this issue, unfortunately there is only one, I think it is in

:08:53.:08:56.

London. There should be access to a raft of precautionary interventions

:08:57.:09:04.

by the gambling industry, when they see a gambler operating erratically,

:09:05.:09:12.

I also believe that the software available, the industry and the

:09:13.:09:16.

banks could talk together so they can see someone is going beyond

:09:17.:09:20.

their means. But there doesn't seem to be any effort put into looking

:09:21.:09:24.

for these fairly simple solutions, in my mind. We will try to find some

:09:25.:09:29.

right now. David Bradford, thank you very much, we really appreciate

:09:30.:09:39.

sharing that. To Tom Watson, Shadow Culture Secretary, this falls in

:09:40.:09:41.

your brief, when you hear David's story, and hear what he is asking

:09:42.:09:46.

for, successive governments have failed him and many others. He talks

:09:47.:09:53.

about that very coherently as a mental illness, they have been taken

:09:54.:09:59.

advantage of. , first say, I thought David was very brave to tell his

:10:00.:10:03.

story live on TV like that. Yet David is one of many hundreds of

:10:04.:10:07.

thousands of people who currently have a gambling addiction. And

:10:08.:10:10.

gambling addiction has grown by up to one third in recent years. And

:10:11.:10:17.

that is what I think we... It has grown since 2005 and it was the

:10:18.:10:22.

Labour policy of deregulation that created that massive boom. Do you

:10:23.:10:27.

have remorse for that? Certainly we must acknowledge that there are

:10:28.:10:32.

negative consequences of that act, particularly where we attempted to

:10:33.:10:35.

regulate fixed odds betting terminals... You are acknowledging

:10:36.:10:41.

negative consequences, can you not just say this is a terrible mistake,

:10:42.:10:47.

as Tessa Jowell has done? I can and I sat on that bill although it did

:10:48.:10:51.

many good things to regulate the gambling industry. That way it went

:10:52.:10:56.

wrong was on fixed odds betting terminals. Let's also recognise that

:10:57.:10:59.

regulation that it created is no longer fit for purpose. Let me just

:11:00.:11:05.

explain. A piece of legislation was for gambling in the analogue age.

:11:06.:11:11.

And one decade later we have had an expression of new services... That

:11:12.:11:14.

was short-sighted then because there were warnings that the time, it came

:11:15.:11:18.

from the Conservatives in opposition, why did Gordon Brown and

:11:19.:11:21.

Tony Blair press ahead and ignore those warnings? The focus of that

:11:22.:11:28.

legislation, and the public discourse and probably on Newsnight

:11:29.:11:32.

as well was how you regulate large casinos, which paradoxically the

:11:33.:11:36.

most regulated parts of the gambling industry. They were talking about

:11:37.:11:41.

super casinos. What we failed to understand was the impact of these

:11:42.:11:45.

fixed odds betting terminals which are not regulated then. It wasn't

:11:46.:11:51.

just that, it was adverts on TV, sponsorship, you can't take your

:11:52.:11:54.

kids to a game without seeing gambling advertised to the very

:11:55.:11:58.

young. What is all that about. And not running away, we need to

:11:59.:12:02.

acknowledge cross-party that the current regulations we have

:12:03.:12:05.

regulating gambling are not fit for purpose. It

:12:06.:12:23.

is Britain's hidden crisis. There are an estimated 400,000 problem

:12:24.:12:26.

gamblers in Britain, that's 400,000 families destroyed, communities

:12:27.:12:28.

under pressure and I think we must act urgently to address these

:12:29.:12:31.

concerns because I don't want to be on Newsnight in years to come...

:12:32.:12:33.

Tom, we have just had an election, there was one line in the manifesto

:12:34.:12:36.

and you know gambling disproportionately affects the poor.

:12:37.:12:37.

You know that this is predatory capitalism written large. What

:12:38.:12:39.

happened to the Jeremy Corbyn idea of the many, not a few, they left

:12:40.:12:45.

behinds, this was predicted to be a problem and was ignored two months

:12:46.:12:50.

ago. It wasn't ignored, we have raised concerns familiars, be

:12:51.:12:53.

raising it in the chamber for five years. -- for many years. Would you

:12:54.:13:01.

roll back everything that happened in 2005? First you have to look at

:13:02.:13:05.

the stakes, how currently the government can only refute the

:13:06.:13:08.

sticks of machines in retail outlets. I think there was a case

:13:09.:13:13.

for looking at online sticks in the online space. Would adverts go?

:13:14.:13:19.

You've got to look at the gambling industry... You had ten years to

:13:20.:13:23.

look at this. You've been very concerned, you say, is now clear in

:13:24.:13:28.

your mind what must change? There needs to be massive reform, we have

:13:29.:13:33.

an industry that spends millions lobbying generalists uncivil

:13:34.:13:36.

servants on the message that they believe and responsible gambling and

:13:37.:13:40.

what we have seen today is irresponsible gambling. The industry

:13:41.:13:43.

must take responsibility yet the devil is in the detail. I won't make

:13:44.:13:48.

up policy on the hoof as an opposition Shadow minister on your

:13:49.:13:51.

show but I will say we won't run away from this and we will demand

:13:52.:13:55.

that the government take this hidden crisis seriously. We will work with

:13:56.:14:00.

them. We've got a very good minister in Tracy Crouch whose spoken out

:14:01.:14:04.

about regulating fixed odds betting terminals but has been muzzled by

:14:05.:14:07.

the Treasury. They've got a review going on at the moment, in October

:14:08.:14:11.

will support the government if they want to make radical changes. You

:14:12.:14:16.

are putting it on their plate. It's been a long summer, the first time

:14:17.:14:20.

we've heard from you, give us some clarification on some things, Kezia

:14:21.:14:25.

Dugdale has gone, Scottish Labour leader, I know there's a mix of

:14:26.:14:28.

reasons but broadly the party has become a harder place for her and

:14:29.:14:33.

for people like you. She has now shifted the balance on the NEC by

:14:34.:14:37.

leaving. Do you think they are trying to get rid of you?

:14:38.:14:42.

LAUGHTER There's always someone trying to get

:14:43.:14:46.

rid of you in politics! I don't actually see any move trying to

:14:47.:14:51.

remove me. But I see after the election as the party coming

:14:52.:14:54.

together, a recognition that under the leadership of Jeremy we did far

:14:55.:14:58.

better than anyone anticipated, probably more than Jeremy himself.

:14:59.:15:04.

How does that explain what Kezia did. I read a letter, she said it

:15:05.:15:08.

was about quality of life, the right time for her and the Scottish Labour

:15:09.:15:13.

Party to go. You have to respect that decision. I don't think there's

:15:14.:15:18.

a subtext, that is why she didn't do a press conference. Exit strategies

:15:19.:15:21.

are the hardest things in politics. You believe what he was. Last Ford,

:15:22.:15:25.

the Labour position on Brexit seems to have changed or soft and,

:15:26.:15:29.

whatever you want to call it. If tomorrow is a group cross-party MPs

:15:30.:15:35.

were to call for Britain to remain permanently in the customs union,

:15:36.:15:41.

post a transition period, would they have your support? That might be one

:15:42.:15:46.

outcome of the negotiations we would support but as the opposition... If

:15:47.:15:51.

MPs stood up tomorrow and say, we want the Labour Party, or we want

:15:52.:15:55.

Britain to commit to remaining permanently in the customs union,

:15:56.:15:59.

would that be something you would say, absolutely, I will stand

:16:00.:16:03.

behind, you have my support. It seems sensible but the sensible way

:16:04.:16:08.

to do this is to negotiate, if that is negotiated outcome, fine. It

:16:09.:16:12.

might be where we push on this but I think to tie the hands of

:16:13.:16:16.

negotiators now would be... Could you put a hand up and say we are the

:16:17.:16:21.

party of soft Brexit now? Could you say we understand the

:16:22.:16:33.

importance union, we will do this our we? Grid yes. He seen the

:16:34.:16:36.

statement from Keir Starmer. We think the importance of being in the

:16:37.:16:38.

customs union is important because this is the way you protect jobs and

:16:39.:16:41.

the economy and it might be a permanent outcome of the

:16:42.:16:43.

negotiations but we must see how they go. Tom Watson, thank you.

:16:44.:16:45.

Thank you for coming in. There are only so many ways you can

:16:46.:16:48.

say nothing has been agreed. The EU's Brexit negotiator has

:16:49.:16:51.

now tried most of them. In today's press conference

:16:52.:16:53.

Michel Barnier warned no decisive While David Davis called up the need

:16:54.:16:56.

for "flexibility and imagination". We were all left to imagine

:16:57.:17:00.

what that might mean. Testy exchanges and the lack of real

:17:01.:17:02.

momentum in talks so far raises the very real prospect of deadlock

:17:03.:17:05.

in the two rounds of talks That's when the EU 27 leaders meet

:17:06.:17:08.

to decide whether they can say To our political editor

:17:09.:17:14.

in a second, but first, Just listening to today's press

:17:15.:17:22.

conference, you'd be forgiven for thinking the UK and the EU 27's

:17:23.:17:35.

representatives hadn't This week we've had long

:17:36.:17:38.

and detailed discussions across multiple areas and I think

:17:39.:17:46.

it's fair to say we've seen We did not get any decisive progress

:17:47.:17:49.

on any of the principal subjects, even though, I want to say,

:17:50.:17:58.

even though, on the discussion we've had about Ireland,

:17:59.:18:02.

that discussion was fruitful. Well, there were a few

:18:03.:18:05.

things to note. First on the argument

:18:06.:18:12.

about what we owe, the EU 27 claims In July, the UK recognised

:18:13.:18:15.

that it has obligations But this week, the UK explained

:18:16.:18:22.

that those obligations will be limited to their last payment

:18:23.:18:33.

to the EU budget before departure. This matters because the agreed

:18:34.:18:37.

EU budget runs for 21 And it has day to day running costs

:18:38.:18:40.

predicated on our contributing. The Bruegel think tank estimates

:18:41.:18:50.

those costs could be 10-15 billion euros, and that is the hole the EU

:18:51.:18:54.

needs to fill. The commission has set

:18:55.:18:58.

out its position and we have a duty to our taxpayers to interrogate it

:18:59.:19:01.

rigorously. At this round we presented our legal

:19:02.:19:10.

analysis on on-budget issues, off-budget issues and on the EIB,

:19:11.:19:16.

the European Investment Bank. It's fair to say that

:19:17.:19:21.

across the piece we have Second, Michel Barnier also

:19:22.:19:24.

talked about red tape. It wants to adopt its own standards

:19:25.:19:27.

and regulations, but it also wants to have these standards recognised

:19:28.:19:32.

automatically in the EU. So, for example, we won't be allowed

:19:33.:19:36.

to sign a deal with the EU that lets us get rid of EU rules

:19:37.:19:52.

and has our exports treated Also, note how the EU

:19:53.:19:55.

is using its bureaucracy against us. They've set out a negotiating

:19:56.:20:09.

mandate for the EU 27 which has been agreed,

:20:10.:20:11.

and that makes it time consuming and difficult

:20:12.:20:14.

to offer us concessions. This mandate was fixed by us

:20:15.:20:21.

from the outset on day one by the 27 heads of state and government,

:20:22.:20:25.

meeting as they were in the European Council under

:20:26.:20:27.

the presidency of Donald Tusk. Naturally, we also work very closely

:20:28.:20:32.

with the European Parliament. Mr Davis, meanwhile,

:20:33.:20:36.

kept talking about our flexibility. The UK's approach is substantially

:20:37.:20:38.

more flexible and pragmatic It's about pragmatically

:20:39.:20:40.

driving the process. Taken together, the impression

:20:41.:20:47.

you get from today is, we are willing to bend

:20:48.:20:50.

and the EU isn't. The state of play right now is that

:20:51.:20:52.

both sides are taking different And the EU is holding

:20:53.:21:00.

a hard line on regulation. But the whole point of a negotiation

:21:01.:21:04.

is that positions can change. Nick Watt, our political editor,

:21:05.:21:15.

is with me now and has some That has a pretty scratchy day in

:21:16.:21:26.

Brussels. The UK hearing figures of 100 billion euros to pay to leave

:21:27.:21:30.

the EU and David Davis says you must be joking. I was told by quite a

:21:31.:21:36.

senior EU official number of months ago that they would settle for a

:21:37.:21:40.

figure of around 34 billion euros. What I have learnt is that in

:21:41.:21:43.

Whitehall they would be willing to look at a figure of around 30

:21:44.:21:50.

billion euros. One senior source said to me, if we talk seriously

:21:51.:21:56.

about that, then we aren't going to the races. How do you achieve that?

:21:57.:22:02.

-- then we are going to the races. You would use the transition period

:22:03.:22:07.

of two or three years after we leave the EU, use that transition period

:22:08.:22:10.

to settle the accounts. Essentially what would happen is the UK would

:22:11.:22:15.

continue to pay roughly the amount it is paying, around 10 billion per

:22:16.:22:20.

year, 30 billion over three years, allowing you to do the transition

:22:21.:22:23.

and it would settle the accounts. What that would do is solve the

:22:24.:22:27.

problem for the UK and also ensure the EU would not have a black hole

:22:28.:22:32.

in its accounts because the UK is responsible for 13% of the EU

:22:33.:22:36.

budget. Two big caveats on this idea. They were put in the public

:22:37.:22:43.

domain last week by Charles Grant, the director of the Centre for

:22:44.:22:46.

European reform. The first caveat is this is not policy in Whitehall but

:22:47.:22:49.

is being looked at very seriously. The second caveat, the UK will not

:22:50.:22:54.

accept any figure on the back of a cigarette packet, it has to be

:22:55.:22:57.

legally credible and binding. And that would end after the transition

:22:58.:23:03.

period, would it? Yes, and then you are saying, what will you do after

:23:04.:23:10.

transition period Ghosh Theresa May in at Lancaster house speech said

:23:11.:23:13.

there would be an entity fast payments but the UK would continue

:23:14.:23:19.

to contribute to programmes including Horizon 2020, an 80

:23:20.:23:24.

billion euros research fund to take science products to the market. The

:23:25.:23:30.

Galileo project, and EU global satellite navigation system. Iraq

:23:31.:23:33.

was, the student exchange programme. And how about this, the civil

:23:34.:23:39.

nuclear watchdog, and that's a bit of a problem because it's overseen

:23:40.:23:42.

by the ECJ, but they would use the mechanism of an arms length

:23:43.:23:45.

relationship with the ECJ to decree that up. -- to divvy that up.

:23:46.:23:56.

A UN committee has described the situation for disabled people

:23:57.:23:58.

in the UK as a "human catastrophe" and said it has more

:23:59.:24:01.

concerns about this country, due to funding cuts,

:24:02.:24:03.

than any other country in its ten year history.

:24:04.:24:05.

Theresia Degener has warned that the austerity measures

:24:06.:24:07.

are affecting half a million disabled people, each one losing

:24:08.:24:10.

The most acute concern she said was on limitations

:24:11.:24:13.

on independent living, but she also said Britain

:24:14.:24:15.

was failing to fulfil its commitment to allow inclusive education,

:24:16.:24:17.

and a growing number of disabled people were living in poverty.

:24:18.:24:21.

Joining me now, Tracy Lazard CEO, Inclusion London.

:24:22.:24:25.

You gave evidence to this report. Is it a fair assessment of what life is

:24:26.:24:34.

like for people in Britain? It's absolutely a fair assessment. The

:24:35.:24:37.

deaf and disabled people's organisations that contributed are

:24:38.:24:41.

very happy with the concluding observations because it does reflect

:24:42.:24:45.

disabled People's' experience. This is a damning verdict by the UN on

:24:46.:24:51.

the UK Government's failure to protect and uphold disabled People's

:24:52.:24:58.

rights. Is no other word for it. The UN disability committee has produced

:24:59.:25:02.

a 17 page document full of concluding observations and

:25:03.:25:06.

recommendations. The committee could only find two examples of positive

:25:07.:25:10.

government action. The rest of it is page after page of serious concerns.

:25:11.:25:18.

And those concerns are wholeheartedly shared by disabled

:25:19.:25:22.

people. The situation where we have the chair of the committee saying

:25:23.:25:26.

that the welfare reform and social care cuts are a human catastrophe

:25:27.:25:31.

for disabled people is shocking. But although it's shocking, it will not

:25:32.:25:35.

come as a surprise to disabled people, because it is our little

:25:36.:25:41.

experience. And yet the government, who we obviously invited on site,

:25:42.:25:44.

and they declined, says it does not reflect the evidence it gave to the

:25:45.:25:51.

UN and it fails to recognise, in the government's words, progress that

:25:52.:25:54.

has been made to empower disabled people in aspects of their lives. Do

:25:55.:25:59.

you see any of that progress or attempts? Not at all. I was there in

:26:00.:26:04.

Geneva and it was frankly embarrassing watching the government

:26:05.:26:07.

try and maintain a position of denial where they are saying that

:26:08.:26:12.

frankly, everything is fine, when there is a mountain of evidence now,

:26:13.:26:18.

and our own little experience that is saying, actually, something

:26:19.:26:22.

terribly wrong is happening. The government needs to use these

:26:23.:26:26.

concluding observations as a wake-up call and show a bit of humility. Is

:26:27.:26:31.

it about this government in a particular patch of austerity, or is

:26:32.:26:36.

it successive governments? What do you see as being at the root of it?

:26:37.:26:43.

Disabled peoples' situation is a combination of historic exclusion

:26:44.:26:47.

and discrimination. But the situation since austerity kicked in

:26:48.:26:53.

means that all the achievements of the disabled People's rights

:26:54.:26:56.

movement over the last 40 years are being systematically dismantled.

:26:57.:27:01.

That's the conclusion of the UN committee. And you can say that here

:27:02.:27:06.

tonight, and the UN can write it, but this is of course non-binding.

:27:07.:27:10.

The government has dismissed it because it thinks it's doing the

:27:11.:27:14.

things that are creating progress. Where will we be in 12 months, if

:27:15.:27:18.

the government thinks it doesn't have a problem and the UN can't

:27:19.:27:23.

force it to change, what happens? You remember social care back in the

:27:24.:27:29.

November budget. Social care wasn't even mentioned in that budget.

:27:30.:27:32.

Because the government was trying to pretend that everything is OK. And

:27:33.:27:38.

yet in May it's nearly toppled the government. And we believe this is

:27:39.:27:43.

the situation with disabled people. The government have consistently

:27:44.:27:48.

dismissed us. Showing disdain for disabled people and the evidence

:27:49.:27:53.

that points to something badly going wrong, and they can't carry on like

:27:54.:27:57.

that. They cannot carry on denying the problem that we have. Thank you

:27:58.:27:59.

for coming in. A slither of good news for those

:28:00.:28:02.

caught up in the Houston flood... The US Environment Protection Agency

:28:03.:28:05.

says it's found no major toxic materials emanating from a flooded

:28:06.:28:08.

chemical plant in Texas. A power failure had led

:28:09.:28:11.

to explosions and the release The concern over toxins is just one

:28:12.:28:13.

knock-on from the floods which have now killed more than 35

:28:14.:28:22.

in the State. Waters are now rising

:28:23.:28:24.

in neighbouring Louisiana and Mississippi where more residents

:28:25.:28:26.

are in peril. Gabriel Gatehouse has

:28:27.:28:28.

been in downtown Houston The floodwaters vanished as fast as

:28:29.:28:43.

they had come. In the heart of America's fourth-largest city, they

:28:44.:28:48.

are just beginning to contemplates the aftermath of an unprecedented

:28:49.:28:53.

storm. This sand here tells you the water was flowing right over this

:28:54.:28:58.

busy intersection here in downtown Houston. If you look over the edge

:28:59.:29:05.

of this bridge, you can see just how fast the water has fallen, but also

:29:06.:29:13.

how high it still is. I was here. I watched the water come all the way

:29:14.:29:18.

up there. What does it feel like to be back? Devastating. I'm just...

:29:19.:29:25.

You know the water is strong but you never really, really know how strong

:29:26.:29:28.

it is until you see what it does, the damage it can do. I'm seeing ice

:29:29.:29:34.

machines, refrigerators that take three or four people to move, and it

:29:35.:29:39.

looks like somebody stuck out their foot and flipped it like they were a

:29:40.:29:43.

human being. What did you do? We all left. There was nothing I could do.

:29:44.:29:49.

The power was already off in this area. Most of the power was off. I

:29:50.:29:56.

took the advice of my boss. There is only so much... I'm a man, I can't

:29:57.:30:00.

do more than that. This is in God's hands. Imagine the force required to

:30:01.:30:04.

move this thing from where ever it has come from. It's got food in it

:30:05.:30:07.

and everything. It's not often you get a chance to

:30:08.:30:21.

walk down the middle of the motorway. This is one of the main

:30:22.:30:31.

arteries into the city. Now dried riverbed that reveals debris,

:30:32.:30:36.

expected fishing ground and strange creatures of the deep. The alligator

:30:37.:30:42.

has been around for 100 million years or so. Parts of Huston are

:30:43.:30:52.

still under water but downtown, posses of volunteers have began

:30:53.:30:57.

cleaning up. This is like a once in 500 years flood. The water you can

:30:58.:31:03.

see behind us was way past our head, six feet or more than will we are

:31:04.:31:08.

now and we were not prepared for something like this. Being so close

:31:09.:31:13.

to home, you are used to seeing this on the TV, now it's half a mile down

:31:14.:31:18.

the street. Maybe it is the alligator that I wondered about

:31:19.:31:22.

climate change, it politically charged topic especially in Trump's

:31:23.:31:27.

America. I don't think you can attribute one weather event to

:31:28.:31:30.

climate change but I like to think of it in two ways, either it is

:31:31.:31:34.

happening or it is not and either we can do something about it and we

:31:35.:31:38.

can't. And I think if there's a chance it's happening we as the

:31:39.:31:42.

human race should do something to at least mitigate whatever it is we are

:31:43.:31:46.

contributing. That is my take on it. We can make a difference, for us to

:31:47.:32:02.

sit back and ignore it is dangerous. Most people are not really thinking

:32:03.:32:06.

about climate change now. They are worrying about their homes or

:32:07.:32:08.

businesses. Lacey this is a jazz club, Huston's greatest downtown

:32:09.:32:11.

jazz club, we have live music every Saturday nights that blows people

:32:12.:32:13.

away. So, you can see, we're trying to clean up and make it better, it's

:32:14.:32:16.

going to be better when we come back. Come on in, it's dark, but

:32:17.:32:25.

come on in. You can see how high the water got. All the way a particular.

:32:26.:32:32.

They say, get the stuff of the floor, I figured it would not come

:32:33.:32:36.

as high as the stage but it blew me away. It went way over the stage.

:32:37.:32:43.

Oh, man. Is your piano still working? I'm going to let it dry

:32:44.:32:47.

out. What was your reaction when you first came in here. Well, you know,

:32:48.:33:08.

I swe, but I am a grown ass man. So I had to go with the flow. An

:33:09.:33:15.

unfortunate choice of words. Texan grit and stoicism have been the

:33:16.:33:18.

hallmarks of the response to the storm. Tens of thousands of people

:33:19.:33:23.

have been made homeless but more are being evacuated every day, many have

:33:24.:33:27.

ended up in this conference centre having lost everything they owned.

:33:28.:33:33.

But for one young couple hurricane army has evoke memories of the storm

:33:34.:33:39.

12 years ago. I lost my whole immediate family in Katrina. I was

:33:40.:33:44.

the one who knew how to swim. You how old. I was nine, I was just

:33:45.:33:51.

making ten years old, when the water came, there wasn't too much I could

:33:52.:33:56.

do. I had to watch them drunk you know. And going through this it

:33:57.:34:02.

really was more drama to me -- had to watch them drown. So I'm just

:34:03.:34:06.

trying to get somewhere to stay, get my mind back because I still have

:34:07.:34:12.

nightmares and stuff. When the storm came, we were having these

:34:13.:34:17.

flashbacks of Katrina, we weren't thinking about grabbing this

:34:18.:34:21.

grubbing about. All we were thinking is putting our instincts to work and

:34:22.:34:26.

getting somewhere safe. They say that this storm was worse than

:34:27.:34:30.

Katrina. That's not true. Although a lot of people have lost their homes,

:34:31.:34:43.

and a few people passed... How they were treated and how we were treated

:34:44.:34:48.

now, how we got treated them, you understand what I mean, there's a

:34:49.:34:53.

big difference. In this storm they responded the perfect way that each

:34:54.:34:57.

person in the United States of anyone else should act towards their

:34:58.:35:02.

fellow person. Coming together like this, no problems, everybody getting

:35:03.:35:06.

treated like family and loved by everybody, that's why everything is

:35:07.:35:13.

so calm, so collected. 12 years ago it was the handling of the aftermath

:35:14.:35:19.

that turned a terrible natural disaster into one of the darker

:35:20.:35:23.

chapters in recent American history. So far it looks like the lessons of

:35:24.:35:28.

hurricane Katrina have been learned but Harvey has been a devastating

:35:29.:35:32.

storm and it is not over yet. Gabriel Gatehouse there in Houston

:35:33.:35:42.

for us. One of the big hits of the summer

:35:43.:35:44.

has been Nicole Krauss's long Two narratives run in parallel,

:35:45.:35:47.

both located around At the centre of one, a missing

:35:48.:35:50.

father, at the centre of another, Well, the novelist Nicole

:35:51.:35:55.

Krauss joins me now. I guess that every author is asked

:35:56.:36:01.

almost as a cliche how much of themselves is in their book. Another

:36:02.:36:05.

Margaret Attwood hates that question, she says, I read fiction,

:36:06.:36:10.

I am a novelist. But you almost seem to be inviting it. I think I am. I

:36:11.:36:15.

think part of that comes from the experience of everyday being a

:36:16.:36:18.

writer and understanding that when you are writing you are constantly

:36:19.:36:23.

expanding your experience of the world. So if I write a story about

:36:24.:36:30.

an old man, or if I set to the 19th century, I am amplifying and adding

:36:31.:36:35.

to my own narrative of my life. And then you have that experience and

:36:36.:36:40.

you go back to life again. It isn't that narrative doesn't exist, you

:36:41.:36:44.

see it all around you but you see the narrative is that people tell

:36:45.:36:49.

themselves are actually so fixed. We absolutely need coherence as the

:36:50.:36:55.

human mind needs it, so we construct these narratives of who we are and

:36:56.:36:59.

what has happened to us without taking into account that that is a

:37:00.:37:03.

construction. That memory in a way as a fictional tour. And yet we

:37:04.:37:08.

stick by them even when the become too narrow for us all if they are

:37:09.:37:12.

unhealthy. So the question for me was how do you begin with that

:37:13.:37:16.

narrative and open it or break it so that one has the opportunity for

:37:17.:37:20.

transformation? But when you are writing about a novelist called

:37:21.:37:24.

Nicole are you deciding if you will like are all if she will do things

:37:25.:37:28.

that will annoy you, when you are writing about personal

:37:29.:37:33.

transformation, does it change you? You are seizing an opportunity to be

:37:34.:37:37.

free in a way that maybe you can't do in your life. So if I were to,

:37:38.:37:42.

just like if I were to make up a character, I would be free to become

:37:43.:37:47.

him or her. If I say, here is Nicole, she looks a bit like me,

:37:48.:37:51.

doesn't cheat, and she is a writer like me and cheese from New York,

:37:52.:37:56.

like me, -- doesn't she, and cheers from New York, then the reader says,

:37:57.:38:07.

yes, I know you, and I, this Nicole and free to make all things happened

:38:08.:38:10.

to her. And the things in the book become quite surreal. They test the

:38:11.:38:12.

reader and the reader's believe so although the reader will begin by

:38:13.:38:15.

saying, this must be autobiographical, the things that

:38:16.:38:18.

happen to that Nicole are so extraordinary that in the end the

:38:19.:38:21.

reader has to question that and incorporate into her sense of me

:38:22.:38:26.

something much larger. I think I understand that! One of the

:38:27.:38:30.

questions you raise which intrigued me was this question of who art

:38:31.:38:34.

belongs to. Does art remain the possession of the artist, is it

:38:35.:38:39.

subject to the artist's wishes. It is a very living question for now

:38:40.:38:44.

because Terry Pratchett, who I am sure you are familiar with, demanded

:38:45.:38:49.

just yesterday that a hard drive containing I think ten of his

:38:50.:38:54.

incomplete novels be flattened by a steam roller to prevent anyone

:38:55.:38:57.

trying to finish them or publish them sort of, you know, produce them

:38:58.:39:03.

after his death. Do you have a sympathy with that? The art dying

:39:04.:39:10.

with the artist? I don't. That is a sense that since foreign to me. It

:39:11.:39:16.

doesn't so much that I care what happens to my art or to anyone

:39:17.:39:19.

thought after they die, it is just that I think, it's a kind of act of

:39:20.:39:29.

generosity, first to yourself, you open a space where you ask questions

:39:30.:39:33.

and you are able to be changed, when I think of that beautiful line of

:39:34.:39:36.

poetry that is, you must change your life and I think that is the

:39:37.:39:40.

imperative of art. You open that, as a writer, and it is a gift,

:39:41.:39:46.

innocence, to the reader. So never destroy, I do know, if Picasso

:39:47.:39:49.

thought stuffy thought was terrible is the duty to preserve it because

:39:50.:39:55.

of who he is? I don't know, just to think it belongs to the artist any

:39:56.:40:00.

more. When it is no longer in your studio, if you are a painter, or

:40:01.:40:04.

once you publish a book you let go of it. You've given it over to

:40:05.:40:07.

readers and they will make what they want a vet. That was yours and the

:40:08.:40:14.

writing will become hopefully theirs. Nicole Krauss, thank you.

:40:15.:40:18.

As you might have noticed, it's 20 years ago today

:40:19.:40:21.

31st August 1997 was a Sunday, but in the following week,

:40:22.:40:33.

As the nation remembers those events of two decades ago,

:40:34.:40:37.

we thought we'd leave you with how we covered the shocking

:40:38.:40:40.

Good evening, in this special programme we will be

:40:41.:40:44.

paying tribute to Diana, Princess of Wales.

:40:45.:40:46.

Remembering some of the events of an often troubled life,

:40:47.:40:50.

talking about the contribution she made through her public work,

:40:51.:40:53.

and about the extraordinary excitement her very presence

:40:54.:40:58.

aroused, not just here, but right around the world.

:40:59.:41:00.

I'm amazed that she's been brave enough to take me on!

:41:01.:41:03.

When I started my public life 12 years ago, I understood the media

:41:04.:41:19.

I realised then, their attention would inevitably focus on both our

:41:20.:41:30.

But I was not aware of how overwhelming that

:41:31.:41:36.

Let's go first to Kirsty Wark, at the Cafe Diana in Kensington.

:41:37.:41:45.

All the people here are ones who have laid flowers

:41:46.:41:48.

at Kensington Palace and have chosen to stay on because they feel

:41:49.:41:51.

Ten-page supplements being printed, going to press tonight

:41:52.:41:56.

I would urge everyone in the country who believe the press

:41:57.:42:00.

had some involvement, directly or indirectly

:42:01.:42:02.

I will always be glad that I knew the Princess,

:42:03.:42:13.

and will always think of her in very strong and positive terms.

:42:14.:42:19.

Everyone who can will support her two fine sons and help them

:42:20.:42:22.

to have the life and future she would want.

:42:23.:42:32.

She was undoubtedly one of the best ambassadors of Great Britain.

:42:33.:42:35.

The crowds that have flocked to Buckingham Palace

:42:36.:42:37.

In many ways the nation has mourned for the Princess's death

:42:38.:42:45.

in the way that individuals grieve for a family member.

:42:46.:42:47.

And she was very loved by everyone too.

:42:48.:42:54.

We leave you with these pictures of the scenes tonight

:42:55.:43:16.

Good evening. As we step into September one,

:43:17.:43:17.