01/09/2017 Newsnight


Emily Maitlis presents in-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines.

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The obstructionist Democrats would like us not to do it but we have to


close down our government. We are building that wall.


Trump's already threatened to shut down government


Is he prepared to fall out with his own party -


Tonight we're on the Arizona border looking at the divisions


The battles being fought within the Republican Party, much like the


tensions within the Trump White House, can be seen as a fight the


globalists and the Nationalists. The wall has become a symbol of that.


We have the most expensive childcare in the world.


The Government's increasing the subsidy for working parents -


even for those who are quite well off.


But should it be targeting the very poorest families instead?


We'll hear the case both for and against.


The man who has most doggedly chronicled London is the writer


He says hIs days of footslogging across


the capital are at an end - Steve Smith takes him out


Closed against the rest of England, London was now an island, open for


business, only if your business is business.


Texas needs levies - not walls - said one US


In the wake of Hurricane Harvey, will the President have a change


of heart over his plans for the border wall with Mexico,


the ultimate soundbite of his election campaign?


Trump released photo images today for the structure


he wants to build and has vowed to shut down


government - if need be - to get the funding for it


But Trump's own legislators have other plans.


Senior Republicans are resisting spending on the controversial


wall when the money, they say, should be


The wall was meant to separate America from Mexico.


But the divide so far has been between the President


Division that points to a gulf of differences on other issues


between those who are - broadly - internationalist and those


Gabriel Gatehouse has been to the site of the wall in Arizona


Donald Trump is feuding with his own party.


At odds over trade, health care, law and order, and over the


We are building a wall on the southern border, which is


We have to close down our government.


That would be an awful decision that would backfire badly,


not just on the President but all the Republicans


Donald Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall but


So, now the president needs tens of billions of dollars from Congress


and he's likely to face opposition, not just from Democrats but from


The battle is being fought within the Republican


Party, much like the tensions inside the Trump White House


can be seen as a fight between the globalists


And the wall has become a symbol of that.


It's become the totemic issue at the heart of this battle.


Arizona, like America, is divided on the issue of the wall.


But those who want it built see opposition to it


as part of a wider pattern of obstruction of Donald Trump's


The wall represents a symbol of trespass.


It's a symbol of, don't come across here.


We stand for who we are as Americans.


By not having anything there, it's open transition.


If I behaved like they're doing in Washington, DC,


People have hope with this president.


Donald Trump won Arizona in 2016 but by a far smaller


margin than the Republican candidate in 2012.


America has not made its peace with the fact of his


presidency and that includes much of the Republican establishment.


Arizona's two Republican senators, John McCain and Jeff


Flake, have been some of the most outspoken critics of the president.


Now, as we know, Donald Trump doesn't take criticism well and he's


He's looking for candidates to challenge Jeff Flake,


a senator from his own party, when his seat is up for re-election


During a recent visit to Phoenix, the president met with Robert Graham


to sound him out as a possible challenger.


He's a former chair of the State Republican Party


and ran the President's campaign in Arizona.


Trump, he says, was elected to shake things up and


So, disrupters generally get effective, positive


change if they can ensure through the change.


And so, right now, the politics as usual people, when he


talks about draining The Swamp, he's disrupting the universe.


He's not concerned with the optics in


politics and what he says, he is concerned with the outcome.


It's been a chaotic summer in the White House.


Five senior staffers have resigned or been forced out in as many weeks.


You can think it's chaos in there but I can tell you it's


organised and intentional what they're doing.


What he's doing is he's behaving like a CEO.


When I see people like Reince Preibus go out,


it doesn't make me think he's pushing an ally that was America


first ally, I think that was somebody that really didn't


have his best endgame in mind when he was in


the White House and even before the White House,


given discussions that I had with Prebus beforehand.


In the Nationalists versus globalists


narrative, one of the biggest rift is over trade.


Donald Trump leans towards economic nationalism.


He said he'll probably pull the US out of


the North American Free Trade Agreement.


Classical Republicans, including Arizona senator, Jeff


I don't believe there's any more articulate champion


of free trade and conservative values than Senator Flake.


It's a very odd political strategy to me


but it seems he's doing everything possible to settle scores within his


own party, then expanding the playing field in terms of


The president would most likely find it a lot easier to pass


his agenda, whether it is health care or any other issue if he had


some more votes to spare in the United States Senate.


Donald Trump promised his voters he would make


The implicit reference to a bygone era has


sparked a battle for the soul of this country.


It's a battle that is also being played out in the White


House, among staffers in the Nationalists


The Republican establishment is pinning its hopes on the latter to


try to wrest back some control of the Administration.


I think there is a battle going on in the White House


in terms of control over how the president moves forward.


I would like to see that the good people on


I do believe the country is better served with


them being in key positions and continuing to fight, to try to turn


The drive from the Mexican border towards the state


capital Phoenix takes you through the town of Tombstone.


The gunfights of the old Wild West were a mixture


Hard bitten local ranchers versus Northern newcomers, looking to


We got talking to Mike, owner of the Doc Holliday saloon.


Tombstone today is a theme park shadow of its once


edgy self but still old habits die hard.


A snarky remark from a neighbour sparks off some long simmering feud.


Be a man and stand up to what you want to say.


He was the one who walked by - take care


He keeps running his mouth and I'm tired listening to it.


No, it's about what's going on in the bar.


And we are building a wall on the southern border


It turns out Mike was at the rally in Phoenix last month,


standing directly behind the president.


Mike can tell us something very important about Donald Trump.


Something his detractors often fail to understand.


With his base, his popularity is pretty much


It's like you're talking to your buddy.


It's like you're talking to somebody you know.


It's not like talking to a politician.


He turned around a couple of times and he like puts his hands out


And it just reminded me being at home with my uncles and stuff.


And I agree with pretty much everything he said.


In fact I agree with everything he said.


And so the battle for the Republican Party continues.


In the cities, the metropolitans are chipping away at


Out here in the desert, they like their politics


Joining me now is Priscilla Alvarez - Politics Editor of


Nice of you to join us. Do you think that Donald Trump is having a change


of heart about the wall? To some degree, yes. We are seeing reports


that he is backtracking. White House officials are telling Republicans


fear backtracking on the $1.6 billion they are asking for. He has


threatened the Government shutdown if he does not get funding for the


border wall. He has done that in the past. This is the second time the


White House has seen difficulty in getting this through and would


backtrack from the initial decision. This is presumably because Donald


Trump's defining policies are nativist. He is looking quite


isolated in the White House, isn't he? It goes further than that. The


Republicans have a lot of items on their agenda. We are talking about


raising the debt ceiling and relief for Harvey. They want to get the


border wall funding through those that they do not see it as a


possibility. Paul Ryan, when he was questioned about the threat posed by


Trump, he also did not see it as something that should happen. The


Government shutdown should not happen for border wall. Other agenda


items are taking priority goes up to your point, Donald Trump has always


surrounded herself with people who hold the nationalist agenda for the


a lot of is used have to do with who he surrounds himself with. Whether


we see a change in coming months as to be seen. It is fascinating. One


point is, the people who are so strongly behind the wall are his


supporters like the voices we heard in Arizona and beyond that. With


they forgive him if you let that core policy go? It is interesting. I


think his base is very gung ho about the wall. It is tangible and they


want to see it go up. There are parts of the border that are already


friends. They want to see happen. Some of the immigration restriction


-ists see other things as more important. They want to see


legislation to cut illegal immigration to the United States.


They have other policies. Whether they reconcile some immigration


restriction is to groups who want legislation passed and the base that


once the border war built, that would be the interesting thing that


will happen. -- wall. What is fascinating is the journey between


Donald Trump and the Republican Party. Do you think he is more


aligned with them now or do you think the splits that we are seeing,


whether over immigration policies, the wall or spending are getting


bigger? I think this month, September, will be a big month to


answer that exact question. He has spent the summer months criticising


leadership and Republican senators. He has blamed them for several


things like health care. There have been reports that he has been in a


feud, an ongoing feud. I think that now, as we look at tax reform and


the budget, ill be the tell tale sign. Will he push for this funding?


If he does so, will the Republicans follow him? Steve Bannon followed


shortly after by the Hungarians advise as well last week. They have


promised to make America great again from outside the White House. How


does that work? How do you, in the lobby, explain that? Are they


supporting Donald Trump or undermining the White House?


David Simmonds -- Steve Bannon was editor at Breitbart and he is back


there and it is likely he will push the same thing they are pushing


which is pushing these agenda items and pushing for an Thai immigration


laws and immigration is a big part of this. What that is going to do is


continue. They will get louder. It is going to be Trump who has to face


that and it will be his White House that decides how they react to it.


Thank you very much. Thank you. Childcare in this country


is just about the most A full-time nursery place costs -


on average - more than ?150 So there should be plenty of parents


of three and four year olds in England today celebrating


the news that, from today, they're eligible for an extra 15


hours of free childcare And that's on top of the 15


hours they already get. But are we funding free


childcare the right way? Is it time for a radical rethink


on what free childcare is for? For years, all three and four year


olds have been eligible for up to 15 That's regardless of


whether their parents work, From now on, that will double to 30


hours a week during term time. For the extra entitlement,


both parents have to work and earn at least ?120 a week,


although if either Mum or Dad earns more than ?100,000 a year,


they no longer qualify. Some think the whole system


pumps too much money They say it should be


scrapped completely, with the money redirected


to the poorest in society. This policy is unlikely to benefit


the poorest children because either their parents don't


work or they don't work long Instead, what we could find is that


they're even more disadvantaged by the policy because nursery


providers might have to prioritise those children who are eligible


for the 30-hour entitlement and whose parents do earn more


money, or they don't get enough funding from government


and therefore don't have enough money to invest in high-quality,


well-staffed provision There was a time when not only


was childcare inaccessible to the poor, but a chimney sweep


could take his three year old to work with him,


as in this clip from 1933. Parents don't always know best,


but it used to be taken for granted that they were the best people


to bring up children. Why now, in an age of austerity,


are we spending so much money having Well, schools often argue it's good


for very young children to experience playing in groups,


so perhaps a social benefit. It's also argued that people


who want to go back to work, but couldn't afford


to without the free places, Our research suggests


that if anything at all, it will increase parental


employment, but only slightly, and only


for mothers who have no other One reason why this is the case


is that when offered with free childcare,


parents don't use Instead, they reduce the number


of hours of childcare that they pay for, or the number of hours


of informal childcare provided For many parents, it's


a make-or-break issue. The cost of childcare -


along with mortgages - the biggest outgoing


in their family budget. But is this the right way to be


going, is the money getting to the right people,


is it benefiting the kids? Joining me now from Manchester


is the Labour MP and former Shadow Education Secretary Lucy Powell,


who is calling for just such And with me is David Simmonds,


the Conservative Vice Chairman Lucy Powell, you would tear up


the new system and start again, Well, not just the very poorest. I


think what we have got to have with the early years is some really clear


policy objectives and I think what your film showed as the myriad of


schemes that we have are failing many objectives at the same time.


There are two reasons why the state should invest in early years and


childcare. One is to support working families to go back to work, to


boost maternal employment rates. And the second is for social mobility


reasons, to close and narrowed that developmental and educational gap


that exists already by the age of five. So why would you not wanted to


go as widely you could? Both reasons apply to nearly all families, right?


Yes, they can do, but what we are seeing under this government is the


skewing of that money now very much focused on working families. And


better off working families, not even lower income working families.


A report I published yesterday with the social market foundation, the


analysis found that of the new money the Government is going to be


spending over this Parliament on the early years, 75% of that, ?9


billion, is going on the top half of earners and the most disadvantaged


families will seem less than 3% of that money. You just cannot justify


that. David, it is hard to argue against focusing on the poorest in


society, is it? There would be many disappointed parents if the scheme


being rolled out where to be scrapped, including me. When the


childcare for low income families was first introduced in 2013, the


Government gave a commitment that when it could afford to do it, it


would expand that scheme so many more families including higher


income families, could access it for the reasons outlined in your


introduction, it is amongst the most expensive month dress childcare in


the world. This is the fulfilment of a promise when childcare was


introduced for lower income families that it would also be made available


to others. So you are now, as an ethos, the party of working parents,


of working mothers? Councils are involved at the front line of making


sure that children get the best possible start in life. We know the


money you spend... Go back to the question, that has been a difference


between Labour and the Conservatives, the Conservatives


were never scared to say, we think parents that stay at home might be


raising their children best, and you have said that mums that stay at


home are raising their children best, has that gone from your floss


survey? I cannot speak for the Government on this but from the


perspective of a Conservative council, we see the benefits to our


local economy of making sure good quality childcare is available.


There is lots of research over many years showing the impact that has.


Whether we are looking at it philosophically or politically, it


is right to make sure that is available to ask many people as


possible. David says there will be a lot of middle-class families and


this would disproportionately hit, I think, working women, who would say


they cannot afford to go out any more to work. I think you have got


to try and do both, but I think the Government is now almost entirely


focusing on the better off working families. My eldest child is about


to start school in September so I have had seven, eight years of


spending a huge amount of money on nursery fees and I am well aware of


those costs. So you would do something more? Should you not have


been receiving any of that free childcare? Your own circumstances,


you work hard as an MP and you would not have been able to do half of


that, would you come if you had had children at home you could not


afford to send out? I don't know your circumstances. I got relatively


little help really from the state and yes, it is very difficult for


families to manage those costs, but it did not affect whether I was at


work or not and that is one of the policy objectives we have got to


look at here. It is about whether rewards work fundamentally. Do you


want to say, we are going to help you and help more families to have


two parents going out to work, or is that not important? It is important,


but it should not be the only policy objective and a fear over the coming


years, that is now becoming principal policy objective. When we


look at the developmental gaps at the age of five, they are dark. Over


half of children from disadvantaged families are not at the expected


level when they start school and the single biggest indicator of how well


you do at GCSE is your attainment at the age of five. Children from more


affluent families will have heard 30 million more words by the age of


three compared to those from disadvantaged families. We cannot


afford not to do something about it. David, would you agree that the


earlier children have any kind of schooling, any kind of interactive


nursery, the better off they will be? You could say, as Conservatives,


we will give you the money, you can spend it on nursery care if you want


or on children's shoes and clothes if you prefer. That was the


old-style Tory policy. You now saying every child should get into


education in whatever sense that is as early as possible? We deserve


every child deserves the best start in life and the early years


curriculum... That is a slightly different question, the best start


in life could be whatever the parent thinks is the best start for them,


you are pushing them down the line. The research is clear, it shows good


early education is a fantastic indicator and if you get that right,


children do better at primary school and secondary school and they go on


to university and college. We know the money spent in this way is the


most effective use of that money and that is why the Government is


committed to this and why councils are supporting this. We have issues


with the small print of the policy, it is clear it can be too complex


and many nursery providers have valid concerns. But the Early Free


curriculum and the access that offers and the balance it brings is


undoubtedly the best way to spend the money. We are out of time, thank


you very much. These are fractured times,


when everything from Brexit to the Grenfell Tower tragedy seems


to show up just how divided and complex our country,


and capital city, can be. One man who has been doggedly


chronicling London, and Londoners, at ground level is the writer


Iain Sinclair, whose 2002 book 'London Orbital' had him walk


the whole of the M25. After 40 years or so,


he's announced that his days of slogging across the capital


are at an end, with a final book called 'The Last London'


and an accompanying exhibition at Gallery 46 in


Whitechapel, East London. Before he hangs up his boots,


Sinclair joined Stephen Smith for one final trip to discuss how


the city has changed. Everything that I try and get


is earned by long, grinding walks. After all that foot slogging,


we thought we'd let # Come fly with me Let's


fly, let's fly away #. The foot-sore


chronicler of London, a day, so we thought we'd


give him one last spin One thing he won't miss


are Artisan coffee outlets. I hear these conversations


in Hackney where people are discussing the making of coffee,


as if it was now a chemical formula. And they can't actually sell it


because they're too busy finessing their own genius


in this field. And the moment when really it


came for me is that, having walked around


London all through one long night Bethnal Green, there's a sign


pasted up in a window - 'No coffee kept on the


premises overnight'. This is what builders used to put up


on their vans about their tools, From his vantage point at street -


or rather, bridge - level, Sinclair has perhaps picked


up more of what's really That invisible cockpit of pollution


rising from the loop of the M25, the orbital motorway,


had closed against London was now an island,


open for business, only if your London is a kind of


gigantic cruise liner. It's doing its best to sail away


from the rest of Britain, who is lost in another kind


of world altogether. And much more related to a world


of corporate cruise liners, with a third-world class slaving


away to keep the thing running, One reason Sinclair is hanging


up his boots, he says, is that the old cultural givens


about London no longer obtain. There are cities within


cities within cities, but they don't connect,


unless there's some horror like Grenfell Tower,


a sudden crematorium chimney erupts And we then fall into a thing


of public mourning. It was horribly predictable,


in lots of ways, in that the public There are sites that are almost


like dumping grounds, that are hidden and pushed


and starved of funds London is so severely


fractured and atomised now, in a way that I've never seen


before, that references As you move through London,


you can't help noticing them. The numbers of people


who are sleeping under bushes, Plenty of people do seem


to manage not to notice. I mean, you document


them in your books. You only kind of notice them


if you're moving fairly For Sinclair, his fellow Londoners


often miss what's around them, preoccupied with their bikes


or smartphones, or both. Like the cyclist he


rescued from a canal. "The bike weighs nothing


when I pull it out. It must feel like riding


on an idea, a line drawing. He seems like a decent chap,


in shock to be grounded. He shakes his head


to get the water out. The man is most concerned


about his phone. He pats Lycra padding,


with multiple pockets, The glinting wafer didn't


appreciate the sudden baptism, Time for a souvenir of the writer's


last circumnavigation I was mad enough to feel this


personal connection with the city, as if the molecules were exchanged


as you walked. It feels very odd to have come


to the end of that system, which began in 1975,


and I've been following one way Before we go, it's that time


when we traditionally call upon you to feel nostalgic


for the departure of something you haven't actually thought


about for over a decade, This time, it's the Yellow Pages,


which will cease publication - as a paper copy, at least -


after more than 50 years. As much a metaphor for heft


and anonymity as a phonebook, the Yellow Pages will perhaps be


most fondly remembered for the hard journalistic


sleuthing of one author - I don't suppose you have a copy


of 'Fly Fishing', by JR Hartley? Never mind, there's


still a few more to try. We don't just help with


the nasty things in life, like a blocked drain,


we're there for the nice things too. Good evening. As we step into the


first weekend of September, the weather


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