01/09/2017 Newsnight


01/09/2017

Emily Maitlis presents in-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines.


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The obstructionist Democrats would like us not to do it but we have to

:00:09.:00:14.

close down our government. We are building that wall.

:00:15.:00:17.

Trump's already threatened to shut down government

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Is he prepared to fall out with his own party -

:00:20.:00:23.

Tonight we're on the Arizona border looking at the divisions

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The battles being fought within the Republican Party, much like the

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tensions within the Trump White House, can be seen as a fight the

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globalists and the Nationalists. The wall has become a symbol of that.

:00:45.:00:47.

We have the most expensive childcare in the world.

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The Government's increasing the subsidy for working parents -

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even for those who are quite well off.

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But should it be targeting the very poorest families instead?

:00:54.:00:56.

We'll hear the case both for and against.

:00:57.:00:59.

The man who has most doggedly chronicled London is the writer

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He says hIs days of footslogging across

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the capital are at an end - Steve Smith takes him out

:01:10.:01:12.

Closed against the rest of England, London was now an island, open for

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business, only if your business is business.

:01:24.:01:30.

Texas needs levies - not walls - said one US

:01:31.:01:38.

In the wake of Hurricane Harvey, will the President have a change

:01:39.:01:45.

of heart over his plans for the border wall with Mexico,

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the ultimate soundbite of his election campaign?

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Trump released photo images today for the structure

:01:53.:01:56.

he wants to build and has vowed to shut down

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government - if need be - to get the funding for it

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But Trump's own legislators have other plans.

:02:02.:02:04.

Senior Republicans are resisting spending on the controversial

:02:05.:02:09.

wall when the money, they say, should be

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The wall was meant to separate America from Mexico.

:02:12.:02:19.

But the divide so far has been between the President

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Division that points to a gulf of differences on other issues

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between those who are - broadly - internationalist and those

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Gabriel Gatehouse has been to the site of the wall in Arizona

:02:32.:02:34.

Donald Trump is feuding with his own party.

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At odds over trade, health care, law and order, and over the

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We are building a wall on the southern border, which is

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We have to close down our government.

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That would be an awful decision that would backfire badly,

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not just on the President but all the Republicans

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Donald Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall but

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So, now the president needs tens of billions of dollars from Congress

:03:43.:03:49.

and he's likely to face opposition, not just from Democrats but from

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The battle is being fought within the Republican

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Party, much like the tensions inside the Trump White House

:04:00.:04:03.

can be seen as a fight between the globalists

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And the wall has become a symbol of that.

:04:06.:04:10.

It's become the totemic issue at the heart of this battle.

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Arizona, like America, is divided on the issue of the wall.

:04:17.:04:21.

But those who want it built see opposition to it

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as part of a wider pattern of obstruction of Donald Trump's

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The wall represents a symbol of trespass.

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It's a symbol of, don't come across here.

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We stand for who we are as Americans.

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By not having anything there, it's open transition.

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If I behaved like they're doing in Washington, DC,

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People have hope with this president.

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Donald Trump won Arizona in 2016 but by a far smaller

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margin than the Republican candidate in 2012.

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America has not made its peace with the fact of his

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presidency and that includes much of the Republican establishment.

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Arizona's two Republican senators, John McCain and Jeff

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Flake, have been some of the most outspoken critics of the president.

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Now, as we know, Donald Trump doesn't take criticism well and he's

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He's looking for candidates to challenge Jeff Flake,

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a senator from his own party, when his seat is up for re-election

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During a recent visit to Phoenix, the president met with Robert Graham

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to sound him out as a possible challenger.

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He's a former chair of the State Republican Party

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and ran the President's campaign in Arizona.

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Trump, he says, was elected to shake things up and

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So, disrupters generally get effective, positive

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change if they can ensure through the change.

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And so, right now, the politics as usual people, when he

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talks about draining The Swamp, he's disrupting the universe.

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He's not concerned with the optics in

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politics and what he says, he is concerned with the outcome.

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It's been a chaotic summer in the White House.

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Five senior staffers have resigned or been forced out in as many weeks.

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You can think it's chaos in there but I can tell you it's

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organised and intentional what they're doing.

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What he's doing is he's behaving like a CEO.

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When I see people like Reince Preibus go out,

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it doesn't make me think he's pushing an ally that was America

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first ally, I think that was somebody that really didn't

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have his best endgame in mind when he was in

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the White House and even before the White House,

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given discussions that I had with Prebus beforehand.

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In the Nationalists versus globalists

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narrative, one of the biggest rift is over trade.

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Donald Trump leans towards economic nationalism.

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He said he'll probably pull the US out of

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the North American Free Trade Agreement.

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Classical Republicans, including Arizona senator, Jeff

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I don't believe there's any more articulate champion

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of free trade and conservative values than Senator Flake.

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It's a very odd political strategy to me

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but it seems he's doing everything possible to settle scores within his

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own party, then expanding the playing field in terms of

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The president would most likely find it a lot easier to pass

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his agenda, whether it is health care or any other issue if he had

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some more votes to spare in the United States Senate.

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Donald Trump promised his voters he would make

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The implicit reference to a bygone era has

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sparked a battle for the soul of this country.

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It's a battle that is also being played out in the White

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House, among staffers in the Nationalists

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The Republican establishment is pinning its hopes on the latter to

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try to wrest back some control of the Administration.

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I think there is a battle going on in the White House

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in terms of control over how the president moves forward.

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I would like to see that the good people on

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I do believe the country is better served with

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them being in key positions and continuing to fight, to try to turn

:08:39.:08:41.

The drive from the Mexican border towards the state

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capital Phoenix takes you through the town of Tombstone.

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The gunfights of the old Wild West were a mixture

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Hard bitten local ranchers versus Northern newcomers, looking to

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We got talking to Mike, owner of the Doc Holliday saloon.

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Tombstone today is a theme park shadow of its once

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edgy self but still old habits die hard.

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A snarky remark from a neighbour sparks off some long simmering feud.

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Be a man and stand up to what you want to say.

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He was the one who walked by - take care

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He keeps running his mouth and I'm tired listening to it.

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No, it's about what's going on in the bar.

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And we are building a wall on the southern border

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It turns out Mike was at the rally in Phoenix last month,

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standing directly behind the president.

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Mike can tell us something very important about Donald Trump.

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Something his detractors often fail to understand.

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With his base, his popularity is pretty much

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It's like you're talking to your buddy.

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It's like you're talking to somebody you know.

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It's not like talking to a politician.

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He turned around a couple of times and he like puts his hands out

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And it just reminded me being at home with my uncles and stuff.

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And I agree with pretty much everything he said.

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In fact I agree with everything he said.

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And so the battle for the Republican Party continues.

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In the cities, the metropolitans are chipping away at

:10:53.:10:57.

Out here in the desert, they like their politics

:10:58.:11:13.

Joining me now is Priscilla Alvarez - Politics Editor of

:11:14.:11:22.

Nice of you to join us. Do you think that Donald Trump is having a change

:11:23.:11:34.

of heart about the wall? To some degree, yes. We are seeing reports

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that he is backtracking. White House officials are telling Republicans

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fear backtracking on the $1.6 billion they are asking for. He has

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threatened the Government shutdown if he does not get funding for the

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border wall. He has done that in the past. This is the second time the

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White House has seen difficulty in getting this through and would

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backtrack from the initial decision. This is presumably because Donald

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Trump's defining policies are nativist. He is looking quite

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isolated in the White House, isn't he? It goes further than that. The

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Republicans have a lot of items on their agenda. We are talking about

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raising the debt ceiling and relief for Harvey. They want to get the

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border wall funding through those that they do not see it as a

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possibility. Paul Ryan, when he was questioned about the threat posed by

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Trump, he also did not see it as something that should happen. The

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Government shutdown should not happen for border wall. Other agenda

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items are taking priority goes up to your point, Donald Trump has always

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surrounded herself with people who hold the nationalist agenda for the

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a lot of is used have to do with who he surrounds himself with. Whether

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we see a change in coming months as to be seen. It is fascinating. One

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point is, the people who are so strongly behind the wall are his

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supporters like the voices we heard in Arizona and beyond that. With

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they forgive him if you let that core policy go? It is interesting. I

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think his base is very gung ho about the wall. It is tangible and they

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want to see it go up. There are parts of the border that are already

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friends. They want to see happen. Some of the immigration restriction

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-ists see other things as more important. They want to see

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legislation to cut illegal immigration to the United States.

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They have other policies. Whether they reconcile some immigration

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restriction is to groups who want legislation passed and the base that

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once the border war built, that would be the interesting thing that

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will happen. -- wall. What is fascinating is the journey between

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Donald Trump and the Republican Party. Do you think he is more

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aligned with them now or do you think the splits that we are seeing,

:14:11.:14:15.

whether over immigration policies, the wall or spending are getting

:14:16.:14:21.

bigger? I think this month, September, will be a big month to

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answer that exact question. He has spent the summer months criticising

:14:28.:14:33.

leadership and Republican senators. He has blamed them for several

:14:34.:14:36.

things like health care. There have been reports that he has been in a

:14:37.:14:43.

feud, an ongoing feud. I think that now, as we look at tax reform and

:14:44.:14:48.

the budget, ill be the tell tale sign. Will he push for this funding?

:14:49.:14:54.

If he does so, will the Republicans follow him? Steve Bannon followed

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shortly after by the Hungarians advise as well last week. They have

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promised to make America great again from outside the White House. How

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does that work? How do you, in the lobby, explain that? Are they

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supporting Donald Trump or undermining the White House?

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David Simmonds -- Steve Bannon was editor at Breitbart and he is back

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there and it is likely he will push the same thing they are pushing

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which is pushing these agenda items and pushing for an Thai immigration

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laws and immigration is a big part of this. What that is going to do is

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continue. They will get louder. It is going to be Trump who has to face

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that and it will be his White House that decides how they react to it.

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Thank you very much. Thank you. Childcare in this country

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is just about the most A full-time nursery place costs -

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on average - more than ?150 So there should be plenty of parents

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of three and four year olds in England today celebrating

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the news that, from today, they're eligible for an extra 15

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hours of free childcare And that's on top of the 15

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hours they already get. But are we funding free

:16:21.:16:24.

childcare the right way? Is it time for a radical rethink

:16:25.:16:26.

on what free childcare is for? For years, all three and four year

:16:27.:16:38.

olds have been eligible for up to 15 That's regardless of

:16:39.:16:41.

whether their parents work, From now on, that will double to 30

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hours a week during term time. For the extra entitlement,

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both parents have to work and earn at least ?120 a week,

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although if either Mum or Dad earns more than ?100,000 a year,

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they no longer qualify. Some think the whole system

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pumps too much money They say it should be

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scrapped completely, with the money redirected

:17:10.:17:13.

to the poorest in society. This policy is unlikely to benefit

:17:14.:17:19.

the poorest children because either their parents don't

:17:20.:17:21.

work or they don't work long Instead, what we could find is that

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they're even more disadvantaged by the policy because nursery

:17:25.:17:30.

providers might have to prioritise those children who are eligible

:17:31.:17:33.

for the 30-hour entitlement and whose parents do earn more

:17:34.:17:35.

money, or they don't get enough funding from government

:17:36.:17:38.

and therefore don't have enough money to invest in high-quality,

:17:39.:17:40.

well-staffed provision There was a time when not only

:17:41.:17:41.

was childcare inaccessible to the poor, but a chimney sweep

:17:42.:18:03.

could take his three year old to work with him,

:18:04.:18:06.

as in this clip from 1933. Parents don't always know best,

:18:07.:18:11.

but it used to be taken for granted that they were the best people

:18:12.:18:15.

to bring up children. Why now, in an age of austerity,

:18:16.:18:18.

are we spending so much money having Well, schools often argue it's good

:18:19.:18:22.

for very young children to experience playing in groups,

:18:23.:18:26.

so perhaps a social benefit. It's also argued that people

:18:27.:18:31.

who want to go back to work, but couldn't afford

:18:32.:18:35.

to without the free places, Our research suggests

:18:36.:18:39.

that if anything at all, it will increase parental

:18:40.:18:51.

employment, but only slightly, and only

:18:52.:18:53.

for mothers who have no other One reason why this is the case

:18:54.:18:55.

is that when offered with free childcare,

:18:56.:18:59.

parents don't use Instead, they reduce the number

:19:00.:19:00.

of hours of childcare that they pay for, or the number of hours

:19:01.:19:04.

of informal childcare provided For many parents, it's

:19:05.:19:07.

a make-or-break issue. The cost of childcare -

:19:08.:19:14.

along with mortgages - the biggest outgoing

:19:15.:19:16.

in their family budget. But is this the right way to be

:19:17.:19:18.

going, is the money getting to the right people,

:19:19.:19:21.

is it benefiting the kids? Joining me now from Manchester

:19:22.:19:26.

is the Labour MP and former Shadow Education Secretary Lucy Powell,

:19:27.:19:29.

who is calling for just such And with me is David Simmonds,

:19:30.:19:31.

the Conservative Vice Chairman Lucy Powell, you would tear up

:19:32.:19:36.

the new system and start again, Well, not just the very poorest. I

:19:37.:19:53.

think what we have got to have with the early years is some really clear

:19:54.:19:56.

policy objectives and I think what your film showed as the myriad of

:19:57.:20:02.

schemes that we have are failing many objectives at the same time.

:20:03.:20:07.

There are two reasons why the state should invest in early years and

:20:08.:20:11.

childcare. One is to support working families to go back to work, to

:20:12.:20:17.

boost maternal employment rates. And the second is for social mobility

:20:18.:20:23.

reasons, to close and narrowed that developmental and educational gap

:20:24.:20:25.

that exists already by the age of five. So why would you not wanted to

:20:26.:20:33.

go as widely you could? Both reasons apply to nearly all families, right?

:20:34.:20:37.

Yes, they can do, but what we are seeing under this government is the

:20:38.:20:44.

skewing of that money now very much focused on working families. And

:20:45.:20:47.

better off working families, not even lower income working families.

:20:48.:20:52.

A report I published yesterday with the social market foundation, the

:20:53.:20:56.

analysis found that of the new money the Government is going to be

:20:57.:21:00.

spending over this Parliament on the early years, 75% of that, ?9

:21:01.:21:06.

billion, is going on the top half of earners and the most disadvantaged

:21:07.:21:09.

families will seem less than 3% of that money. You just cannot justify

:21:10.:21:15.

that. David, it is hard to argue against focusing on the poorest in

:21:16.:21:20.

society, is it? There would be many disappointed parents if the scheme

:21:21.:21:23.

being rolled out where to be scrapped, including me. When the

:21:24.:21:27.

childcare for low income families was first introduced in 2013, the

:21:28.:21:30.

Government gave a commitment that when it could afford to do it, it

:21:31.:21:34.

would expand that scheme so many more families including higher

:21:35.:21:36.

income families, could access it for the reasons outlined in your

:21:37.:21:41.

introduction, it is amongst the most expensive month dress childcare in

:21:42.:21:46.

the world. This is the fulfilment of a promise when childcare was

:21:47.:21:49.

introduced for lower income families that it would also be made available

:21:50.:21:55.

to others. So you are now, as an ethos, the party of working parents,

:21:56.:22:00.

of working mothers? Councils are involved at the front line of making

:22:01.:22:04.

sure that children get the best possible start in life. We know the

:22:05.:22:09.

money you spend... Go back to the question, that has been a difference

:22:10.:22:13.

between Labour and the Conservatives, the Conservatives

:22:14.:22:15.

were never scared to say, we think parents that stay at home might be

:22:16.:22:19.

raising their children best, and you have said that mums that stay at

:22:20.:22:23.

home are raising their children best, has that gone from your floss

:22:24.:22:27.

survey? I cannot speak for the Government on this but from the

:22:28.:22:31.

perspective of a Conservative council, we see the benefits to our

:22:32.:22:35.

local economy of making sure good quality childcare is available.

:22:36.:22:38.

There is lots of research over many years showing the impact that has.

:22:39.:22:43.

Whether we are looking at it philosophically or politically, it

:22:44.:22:45.

is right to make sure that is available to ask many people as

:22:46.:22:50.

possible. David says there will be a lot of middle-class families and

:22:51.:22:54.

this would disproportionately hit, I think, working women, who would say

:22:55.:22:58.

they cannot afford to go out any more to work. I think you have got

:22:59.:23:02.

to try and do both, but I think the Government is now almost entirely

:23:03.:23:06.

focusing on the better off working families. My eldest child is about

:23:07.:23:11.

to start school in September so I have had seven, eight years of

:23:12.:23:15.

spending a huge amount of money on nursery fees and I am well aware of

:23:16.:23:20.

those costs. So you would do something more? Should you not have

:23:21.:23:25.

been receiving any of that free childcare? Your own circumstances,

:23:26.:23:31.

you work hard as an MP and you would not have been able to do half of

:23:32.:23:34.

that, would you come if you had had children at home you could not

:23:35.:23:39.

afford to send out? I don't know your circumstances. I got relatively

:23:40.:23:42.

little help really from the state and yes, it is very difficult for

:23:43.:23:46.

families to manage those costs, but it did not affect whether I was at

:23:47.:23:50.

work or not and that is one of the policy objectives we have got to

:23:51.:23:56.

look at here. It is about whether rewards work fundamentally. Do you

:23:57.:23:59.

want to say, we are going to help you and help more families to have

:24:00.:24:05.

two parents going out to work, or is that not important? It is important,

:24:06.:24:08.

but it should not be the only policy objective and a fear over the coming

:24:09.:24:12.

years, that is now becoming principal policy objective. When we

:24:13.:24:17.

look at the developmental gaps at the age of five, they are dark. Over

:24:18.:24:21.

half of children from disadvantaged families are not at the expected

:24:22.:24:26.

level when they start school and the single biggest indicator of how well

:24:27.:24:31.

you do at GCSE is your attainment at the age of five. Children from more

:24:32.:24:36.

affluent families will have heard 30 million more words by the age of

:24:37.:24:39.

three compared to those from disadvantaged families. We cannot

:24:40.:24:42.

afford not to do something about it. David, would you agree that the

:24:43.:24:49.

earlier children have any kind of schooling, any kind of interactive

:24:50.:24:54.

nursery, the better off they will be? You could say, as Conservatives,

:24:55.:24:58.

we will give you the money, you can spend it on nursery care if you want

:24:59.:25:04.

or on children's shoes and clothes if you prefer. That was the

:25:05.:25:08.

old-style Tory policy. You now saying every child should get into

:25:09.:25:13.

education in whatever sense that is as early as possible? We deserve

:25:14.:25:17.

every child deserves the best start in life and the early years

:25:18.:25:21.

curriculum... That is a slightly different question, the best start

:25:22.:25:23.

in life could be whatever the parent thinks is the best start for them,

:25:24.:25:28.

you are pushing them down the line. The research is clear, it shows good

:25:29.:25:32.

early education is a fantastic indicator and if you get that right,

:25:33.:25:36.

children do better at primary school and secondary school and they go on

:25:37.:25:39.

to university and college. We know the money spent in this way is the

:25:40.:25:43.

most effective use of that money and that is why the Government is

:25:44.:25:46.

committed to this and why councils are supporting this. We have issues

:25:47.:25:50.

with the small print of the policy, it is clear it can be too complex

:25:51.:25:53.

and many nursery providers have valid concerns. But the Early Free

:25:54.:25:58.

curriculum and the access that offers and the balance it brings is

:25:59.:26:03.

undoubtedly the best way to spend the money. We are out of time, thank

:26:04.:26:07.

you very much. These are fractured times,

:26:08.:26:08.

when everything from Brexit to the Grenfell Tower tragedy seems

:26:09.:26:10.

to show up just how divided and complex our country,

:26:11.:26:13.

and capital city, can be. One man who has been doggedly

:26:14.:26:15.

chronicling London, and Londoners, at ground level is the writer

:26:16.:26:18.

Iain Sinclair, whose 2002 book 'London Orbital' had him walk

:26:19.:26:22.

the whole of the M25. After 40 years or so,

:26:23.:26:27.

he's announced that his days of slogging across the capital

:26:28.:26:32.

are at an end, with a final book called 'The Last London'

:26:33.:26:35.

and an accompanying exhibition at Gallery 46 in

:26:36.:26:37.

Whitechapel, East London. Before he hangs up his boots,

:26:38.:26:40.

Sinclair joined Stephen Smith for one final trip to discuss how

:26:41.:26:43.

the city has changed. Everything that I try and get

:26:44.:26:48.

is earned by long, grinding walks. After all that foot slogging,

:26:49.:26:55.

we thought we'd let # Come fly with me Let's

:26:56.:26:57.

fly, let's fly away #. The foot-sore

:26:58.:27:11.

chronicler of London, a day, so we thought we'd

:27:12.:27:13.

give him one last spin One thing he won't miss

:27:14.:27:17.

are Artisan coffee outlets. I hear these conversations

:27:18.:27:22.

in Hackney where people are discussing the making of coffee,

:27:23.:27:26.

as if it was now a chemical formula. And they can't actually sell it

:27:27.:27:30.

because they're too busy finessing their own genius

:27:31.:27:32.

in this field. And the moment when really it

:27:33.:27:35.

came for me is that, having walked around

:27:36.:27:46.

London all through one long night Bethnal Green, there's a sign

:27:47.:27:48.

pasted up in a window - 'No coffee kept on the

:27:49.:27:52.

premises overnight'. This is what builders used to put up

:27:53.:27:53.

on their vans about their tools, From his vantage point at street -

:27:54.:27:58.

or rather, bridge - level, Sinclair has perhaps picked

:27:59.:28:02.

up more of what's really That invisible cockpit of pollution

:28:03.:28:05.

rising from the loop of the M25, the orbital motorway,

:28:06.:28:17.

had closed against London was now an island,

:28:18.:28:20.

open for business, only if your London is a kind of

:28:21.:28:26.

gigantic cruise liner. It's doing its best to sail away

:28:27.:28:37.

from the rest of Britain, who is lost in another kind

:28:38.:28:40.

of world altogether. And much more related to a world

:28:41.:28:44.

of corporate cruise liners, with a third-world class slaving

:28:45.:28:49.

away to keep the thing running, One reason Sinclair is hanging

:28:50.:28:51.

up his boots, he says, is that the old cultural givens

:28:52.:28:57.

about London no longer obtain. There are cities within

:28:58.:29:01.

cities within cities, but they don't connect,

:29:02.:29:04.

unless there's some horror like Grenfell Tower,

:29:05.:29:08.

a sudden crematorium chimney erupts And we then fall into a thing

:29:09.:29:10.

of public mourning. It was horribly predictable,

:29:11.:29:19.

in lots of ways, in that the public There are sites that are almost

:29:20.:29:27.

like dumping grounds, that are hidden and pushed

:29:28.:29:30.

and starved of funds London is so severely

:29:31.:29:33.

fractured and atomised now, in a way that I've never seen

:29:34.:29:36.

before, that references As you move through London,

:29:37.:29:39.

you can't help noticing them. The numbers of people

:29:40.:29:45.

who are sleeping under bushes, Plenty of people do seem

:29:46.:29:47.

to manage not to notice. I mean, you document

:29:48.:29:51.

them in your books. You only kind of notice them

:29:52.:29:58.

if you're moving fairly For Sinclair, his fellow Londoners

:29:59.:30:01.

often miss what's around them, preoccupied with their bikes

:30:02.:30:04.

or smartphones, or both. Like the cyclist he

:30:05.:30:06.

rescued from a canal. "The bike weighs nothing

:30:07.:30:08.

when I pull it out. It must feel like riding

:30:09.:30:13.

on an idea, a line drawing. He seems like a decent chap,

:30:14.:30:18.

in shock to be grounded. He shakes his head

:30:19.:30:21.

to get the water out. The man is most concerned

:30:22.:30:23.

about his phone. He pats Lycra padding,

:30:24.:30:29.

with multiple pockets, The glinting wafer didn't

:30:30.:30:32.

appreciate the sudden baptism, Time for a souvenir of the writer's

:30:33.:30:39.

last circumnavigation I was mad enough to feel this

:30:40.:30:47.

personal connection with the city, as if the molecules were exchanged

:30:48.:31:00.

as you walked. It feels very odd to have come

:31:01.:31:07.

to the end of that system, which began in 1975,

:31:08.:31:10.

and I've been following one way Before we go, it's that time

:31:11.:31:13.

when we traditionally call upon you to feel nostalgic

:31:14.:31:23.

for the departure of something you haven't actually thought

:31:24.:31:25.

about for over a decade, This time, it's the Yellow Pages,

:31:26.:31:32.

which will cease publication - as a paper copy, at least -

:31:33.:31:36.

after more than 50 years. As much a metaphor for heft

:31:37.:31:39.

and anonymity as a phonebook, the Yellow Pages will perhaps be

:31:40.:31:42.

most fondly remembered for the hard journalistic

:31:43.:31:44.

sleuthing of one author - I don't suppose you have a copy

:31:45.:31:46.

of 'Fly Fishing', by JR Hartley? Never mind, there's

:31:47.:31:53.

still a few more to try. We don't just help with

:31:54.:32:17.

the nasty things in life, like a blocked drain,

:32:18.:32:21.

we're there for the nice things too. Good evening. As we step into the

:32:22.:32:49.

first weekend of September, the weather

:32:50.:32:51.

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