14/11/2017 Newsnight

Could you have known

that these tweets were spread

by one mischief-making

Russian Twitter account?

No.

And that's the problem.

Garbage online, much

of it from Russia,

and deliberately designed to cause

trouble, is evidently polluting

public discourse not just

in the US, but here as well.

Can we stop it or are

we just forever stuck

with the Kremlin trolls?

Has perfected the art of driving

wedges into political systems and

their adversaries, and they've

perfected this in the 60s and 70s.

Also tonight.

We've already passed about I think

ten tanks and it seems like more and

more are heading towards Harare.

Military vehicles heading

for the Zimbabwe capital.

For a moment, it looked

like the army might be booting

President Mugabe out today.

What is going on there?

Here in

Harare the military have threatened

a wreck intervention in the affairs

of the ruling party, adding a twist

to the raging power struggles over

who will succeed the 93-year-old

president.

We'll hear live from Zimbabwe

about the struggle to succeed

the world's oldest head of state.

Hello, nice to meet you.

And visiting the UK

from the Philippines,

the niece of a victim of Grenfell,

meets her aunt's neighbours

to try to make sense of the tragedy.

Hello.

For months now, we've gazed

at the US as it deals with apparent

Russian interference

in its political affairs.

Well, as we tend to do

what the Americans do,

but with a lag, it was only a matter

of time before concern about Russian

meddling would come here.

And come here, it really now has.

The Sun and Times are both reporting

tomorrow that the head of

the National Cyber Security Centre

says British energy companies have

already been hacked,

a clear threat to clean running

of our infrastructure.

That is one kind of problem.

Last night, the Prime Minister used

a rather interesting phrase

in condemning the Russians:

the country, she said, is attempting

to "sow discord in the West

and undermine our institutions."

In short, Russia has no agenda

but is just trying to cause trouble.

It's a rebel country

without a cause.

Now, you might say, why worry

about Russian fake news and election

lies, we generate plenty

of all that ourselves.

But we're divided enough

at the moment, without Russia

stirring things up.

So how worried should we be?

Here's our diplomatic

editor Mark Urban.

I own nothing in Russia.

From

America to France or even Catalonia

the accusations have been emphatic

that Russia has used information

warfare to disrupt western

democracies, so division and reap

political rewards.

By their own criteria

inside the machine, as it were,

which is doing this,

it's being seen as a major

success and, of course,

it's important for these particular

agencies within the military,

within the security apparatus to be

successful, to get more funding.

There's a good deal of competition

among the agencies in this business

so I think from a Russian point of

view, from the professionals doing

it, it's been a success.

But how does Britain fit into this?

This week it emerged

that messages like

this one on Twitter had come

from a bot or an automated account.

It was linked to Russia

and intended to

divide Britons and stoke

prejudice against Muslims.

Russia has perfected the art of...

Driving wedges into existing cracks

of political systems

of their adversaries.

And they've perfected

this art already

in the 1960s and 70s,

in the Cold War we used to call

these operations active measures.

Today, of course,

social media are a prime

amplification tool

of active measures.

Theresa May's tough talk on Russia

yesterday echoed that of

her intelligence bosses

earlier this year.

When the chief of MI6, speaking at

the service's Vauxhall Cross HQ made

this accusation.

The connectivity

that is at the heart of

globalisation can be exploited by

states with hostile intent to

further their aims deny belief. They

do this through means as varied as

cyber attacks, propaganda or

subversion of democratic process.

The Prime Minister's charge against

Russia is completely in line with

the assessments of her nonpolitical

intelligence chiefs. But, like a lot

of intelligence, it's short and hard

fact or specifics and what nobody in

Whitehall is alleging is that the UK

has come under a similar information

wars deluged to that which hit

America in the summer of 2016.

What

we've seen in the US is hacking,

leaking, and then amplification of

this content and social media,

including fake news. What we've seen

in Germany, France and the UK is not

so much hacking and leaking, almost

none of that, in fact, almost no

leaking, certainly, instead

amplification operations and social

media which tried to amplify wedges

and divisions.

Russia's response

came from the Foreign Ministry whose

spokeswoman added the prime Mr's

attack was an attempt to distract

from the problems of Brexited. In

unleashing social media, exploiting

hacked documents and financing

fringe parties, Russia may

destabilise the international system

in unpredictable ways.

They react as

they reacted to Prime Minister's

speech yesterday with denial and

ridicule. On the other hand they are

not very good at predicting western

responses to these actions. In fact,

very few actors are able to do that.

In Washington, Senate hearings have

brought to life hacking as well is

evidence of millions of bot accounts

amplifying Kremlin talking points

while masquerading as patriotic

Americans. While similar charges are

being made in the UK, the same

detailed case has yet to emerge.

We asked the Russian foreign

ministry to join us on the programme

today but nobody was available.

In a statement, the ministry said

Theresa May's comments

were "irresponsible and groundless."

It added...

"British society is

currently not going

through its finest hour due

to the ongoing process of exiting

the EU and internal splits.

It is understandable that

an external enemy is direly needed

to distract public attention

for which role Russia

has been chosen."

To discuss this, I'm joined

by the political analyst Matt Turner

from Evolve Politics

and Professor Anne Applebaum

from the LSE, she's written

extensively about Russia for years.

How serious a problem is the kind of

fake news, false tweeting?

Essentially, social media has been

created for this purpose. What you

can do using the analytic tools that

Facebook is you is addressed

different kinds of messages to

different parts of society. Russia

was probably the first major country

to understand how those could be

used to manipulate politics but I

think there will be many others. It

is a mistake to think this is just

about Russia.

Give me an example

about which you have concern of a

way in which the Russians have

successfully meddled in western

politics?

So, we now have had a

number of examples that have been

revealed during US congressional

hearings, for example of Facebook

website set up in places like Idaho,

where actual events were organised

and Facebook inviting people to come

and condemn immigration which turned

out to have been fake Russian

websites and they were being

operated from Russia.

Do you know

how money people turned up to these

things?

In some of them, they did

turn up and stop one of the

difficulties, where I sense you are

going, it is difficult to measure

how well this works but then we run

into the problem of how you measure

any political advertising or any

advertising. Facebook has a funny

dilemma because they want to say

that none of this matters but if it

doesn't matter...

What is the point

of advertising on Facebook. Yeah. I

know you are a bit more sceptical

about how powerful this has all been

and how worried are you by the sorts

of things Professor Anne Applebaum

has been describing?

Are not as

worried as Theresa May. All those

social media over the past five

years has become more and more

relevant and prominent and more

people getting their news from

social media, that is what we've

benefited from, I want to stress

broadcast media and the traditional

print press have more of an

influence, it is where most people

get their news as opposed to social

media. I do believe that is changing

and people, including myself, and

Russia are taking advantage of that

but I think the British government

and traditional media are taking

advantage of that as well.

Do you

accept the Russians are doing this

stuff, they are throwing out all

this rubbish and trying to confuse

and divide? Do accept that?

For

sure. I've seen lists of Twitter

bots linked to Russia which is

undeniable but I dispute the

tangible impact that is having on

elections and public opinion. If you

look at studies done on social media

it specifies that it increases the

intensity of political engagement as

opposed to changing public opinion.

My initial starting point would be

that the people who believe the

anti-immigration message coming from

one to regard the people who already

believe that message. You're not

going to convert people with this

kind of stuff.

There are a couple of

things. Nowadays of course social

media often becomes broadcast media

or leads to mainstream media story

so it is difficult to separate them.

It isn't as if it is the people on

social media affected. President

Trump tweets, most people learn

about them because they are on

television. That is the way in which

they get across. It is important to

understand the Russian method, which

isn't blindingly original, is to

identify these very passionate and

obsessed groups...

Yes.

Which exist

and which can be found through

social media analytics. And then to

increase their energy, increase

their passion, persuade them to

vote, persuade their friends to

vote. On the other hand, persuade

others not to vote. They were using

these fake black lives matters

Facebook pages in the United States

to persuade potential Hillary voters

not to vote. I don't think anybody

is claiming that they have changed

our way of thinking. This is a way

of finding out what social divisions

already exist, working with them and

exacerbating them.

There is an

argument that people have used that

these have interfered in elections,

Brexit and Trump, and people will

say that as an excuse by people who

lost those elections.

That is

something I would agree with. It is

an excuse, a hyperbolic one at that.

To be honest with you, much more of

a reason why the Clinton campaign

lost and they remain campaign lost

is because the campaigns would die

in the first place. It is dangerous

territory here when we go into using

the term Russia as a catchall phrase

to kind of justify the fact we

should show trust in our current

inept leaders and candidates when,

in reality, they are covering their

own tracks.

In terms of what we

should do about this, isn't the best

thing to do about this is tried and

educate everybody not to believe

everything they see online,

particularly a Twitter account where

the person doesn't have an ordinary

name or picture of themselves?

We

are just at the beginning of

understanding how this works. Think

about the invention of the printing

press in 15th century and how much

that changed politics and religion

and relationships between nations

over a number of years. We are at

the beginning of a process like that

now where this is going to change

everything, really, about the way

our institutions work. At the

beginning, one of the solutions is

going to be media literacy, teaching

people to understand it, down the

line beginning to understand how

these divisive campaigns work and

finding antidotes.

Do you agree on

that?

I think the trouble which we

have here is essentially people are

already combating it themselves. It

hasn't impacted the election in the

first place. The snobbish

insinuation people are almost too

stupid to realise and are going to

take notice of a Russia Twitter bot

and change their minds I think,

again, that kind of inference is one

of the main reasons why people have

lost trust in establishment

politicians in the first place, the

insinuation people don't know what

they want.

Thank you.

Now, nation, take note,

we are about to give

you a fleeting look at our famous

Brexit countdown clock.

Because today MPs embarked

on the next stage of the Brexit

legislative process,

with line by line debate

of the EU Withdrawal Bill.

Two amendments attempt to enshrine

in law the date of Brexit.

One, from Labour's Frank Field,

set the date as 30th March 2019.

That one's gone now.

But a government one

enshrines the official date

of 29th March and the time

as, well, 11pm.

And as you can see, that is almost

exactly 500 days away.

If only we'd just put this

item 15 minutes later.

But it's not just the clock

giving us numbers today.

The parliamentary arithmetic

is on everybody's minds, too.

Are there enough Tory rebels

to defeat the government on crucial

aspects of the bill?

Meanwhile, elsewhere in Westminster

leading car makers were quoting some

pretty interesting numbers too

on how Brexit might

affect their trade.

Our political editor Nick Watt

is with me for the politics,

Helen Lewis, our business editor,

is also here.

Nick, take us through what happened

today on the bill and the numbers of

MPs who could prevail.

It was the

first vote at committee stage today

on the bill. A couple of

uncontroversial votes and the

government supports 318 MPs, not a

bad base but there is a

controversial decision to amend the

bill to put on the face of it the

exact date of withdrawal. Tory

rebels furious with that, they say

there was another amendment saying

the government would be able to

change the date through the stroke

of a pen known as the statutory

instrument. A number of Tory MPs say

they cannot support that amendment

and hear the front page the Daily

Telegraph, the Brexit mutineers,

reporting the rest 15 of these Tory

MPs who have informed senior party

figures that they cannot vote for

that. One of those the former

Chancellor Ken Clarke and he was

really annoyed when he was talking

about this this afternoon.

I am the rebel.

I espouse the policies

the Conservative Party has followed

in the 50 years, of my

membership of it until we had

a referendum 18 months

ago and I regret I have

not yet seen the light.

And I ask the government

to reconsider silly amendments

thrown out because they got a good

article in the Daily Telegraph,

which actually might do harm.

We have just had Remembrance Day.

I just simply want people to reflect

on the fact that for one moment

they might just recall the fact

that those millions of people

who died in both world

wars died for a reason.

It was to do with sustaining the

freedom and democracy of this House.

Derry have the Tory party warhorses.

But in the last hour were about to

get more votes on the continuing

role of the European Court of

Justice and Oliver Letwin has said

in that area the bill is a mess and

unless the government amends that it

would be massacred in the House of

Lords.

Moving on to the business side, we

had car companies appearing before

MPs today, what did they have to

say?

The headline grabber was Aston

Martin and they spoke about no deal

Brexit being semi-catastrophic in

their words. So cars built in the UK

are certified here by the UK

regulator and that certification is

valid overseas and recognised. They

said in an acrimonious no deal

Brexit they might have to shut down

production and find another means to

be certified. So that was the

doomsday stuff. Some numbers as

well. The numbers which illustrate

the challenge of planning, Honda, a

top five car-maker, 14% of

components come from the EU. That is

2 million components every day

arriving on 350 tracks. And that is

just manufacturing, the only keep

one of our worst of stock at its

factory in Swindon. So they're

thinking about how much stock they

need, where they store it, how to

cope with delays. And talking about

a 15 minute delay meaning eight and

£50,000 in extra costs. They think

it would take them 18 months to be

ready to leave the customs union and

deal with the extra customs volume.

So an insight into some of the

complexity around that.

Before we

move on to long-term trade deals we

have to get past go. And that means

getting out of these divorced talks.

Tell us what is going on there and

what we expect tomorrow?

Well

Theresa May will be lampooning

European Parliament next week

because they must approve the deal.

She is meeting one member of the

largest centre-right party. And it

has been said there would be no deal

by December because the UK has got

to pay three times the amount

proposed. But interestingly today

William Hague in his Daily Telegraph

column said the government should

put a larger sum on the table

because he said it would unlock the

talks on the future, on the

transition. We taken seriously not

just because he's a former Foreign

Secretary but he said early election

when Theresa May was saying no early

election.

Now there is confusion

tonight in Zimbabwe as to whether

there is a cool underway.

-- a coup.

It might be the end of the world's

oldest head of state,

93-year-old Robert Mugabe,

who's been in power

for over 37 years.

Military vehicles were reported

to be on the streets

of the capital, Harare.

In the end, it seems it was not

a coup, but something

is clearly up in that country.

It's all about who will

succeed President Mugabe.

His wife, Grace, is a front runner,

but to maximise her chances,

Mr Mugabe has knocked one or two

rivals out the way.

The commander of the defence forces

was angered by the sacking

of a vice-president,

and there is now a war

of words between the army

and the ruling party.

Where will it end?

The BBC's Shingai Nyoka

reports from Harare.

Military vehicles moving around

Harare today sparking a flurry of

social media activity and

speculation. So far it seems the

speculation was wrong. And this is

the reason for the tension. This

extraordinary press conference

yesterday was the first indication

that the military could be prepared

to break loyalty with its commander

in chief President Robert Mugabe.

We

must remind those behind the current

treacherous shenanigans that when it

comes to protecting us the military

will step in.

They're unhappy with

the sacking of long-term party

member Innocent. They believe the

former party is purging itself

former competence. In favour of the

generation.

It is pertinent that the

defence forces remain in respect to

the games of the struggle and when

these are threatened were obliged to

take corrective measures.

Zimbabwe

's independence came 37 years ago

and Robert Mugabe has been at the

helm. He is the world's oldest

sitting head of state and many

believe his power has been derived

from the military and war veterans.

They said they would not salute a

leader who did not fight in the war

against colonialism. Elections with

the opposition have been disputed

and often violent and in return for

their loyalty they have been

rewarded with lucrative mining deals

such as this in the diamond fields,

once jointly operated with the

Chinese military. But their position

is threatened now. And because of

her, Grace Mugabe is 52 and had

never fought in the war. She is on

Paula Jacklin about it. At this

rally a few weekends ago she

volunteered herself for an executive

post. Dashed she is unapologetic

about it. Sharp tongued, she has

often scolded military and war

veterans for holding the party to

ransom. Grace Mugabe has the backing

of the youth who said they will

defend the party against threats

from the military.

Defending the

revolution and leader of the

President is a principle we are

prepared to die for.

The curtain

appears to be falling on Zimbabwe 's

liberation war pass. War veterans

were arrested last year for --

arrested last year for calling

President Mugabe a traitor.

We

agreed that this national army which

developed from the guerrilla army,

it should have protected the

interests of the people, political,

economic and other way.

Others

believe the stand-off with the

generals assist test of Mugabe's

power.

This is looking like a sign

of weakness. Mugabe is considering

his position. There was this

conversation between party and

state. If you recall Mugabe two

years ago specifically thanked the

military for rescuing him and his

party from defeat in the elections.

So here has been quite comfortable

with the interference of the

military when it has been on his

behalf. Now the military looks like

interfering in politics against him

he being a bit more uncomfortable

that.

As the politicians squabble

the economy is taking a tumble and

as ordinary people are hardest hit,

food prices are rising and

unemployment is at 90%. The

stand-off continues between the

military and President Mugabe. The

president has not commented on the

general statements but he has the

power to fire them. The country

waits for his next move.

Shingai Nyoka there.

Interestingly, of course,

the vast bulk of Zimbabweans have

never known any leader other

than Mr Mugabe, nor, indeed, has

the young nation of Zimbabwe.

So, where does this go?

Joining me now live

from Harare is freelance

journalist Rashweat Mukundu.

He was the director

of the Media Institute

of Southern Africa Zimbabwe.

And here in the studio

with me is Alex Magaisa.

He was a chief advisor to former

Zimbabwean Prime Minister

Morgan Tsvangirai.

Mr Tsvangirai, you will remember,

was the opposition leader before

agreeing to join Mr Mugabe's

government for a time.

Just tell us who is in charge

tonight, is it Mugabe ordered the

Army?

That is the question that we

are all asking right now. And today

there's very little information on

what going on. The latest we have is

that from Facebook, Twitter post

that the military has taken over the

state broadcaster and surrounded the

residents of the president. But that

is not substantiated. So right now

there is a lot of information

floating around but without any

official statement. Were hoping to

hear from the military, if they have

taken over the strip broadcaster but

so far no statement has come. --

state broadcaster. So until that

time there will be this tension and

lack of information.

What is on

television at the moment, what is

the state broadcaster saying?

It is

carrying on as if nothing has

happened. I think for the benefit of

listeners, there was a statement

from the ruling party. They're

condemning the military for

interfering in politics. And

insinuating that what the military

have done is treasonous. Right now I

was just watching the state

broadcaster and they're playing

music, there's no statement. They

did not have the national news, the

last bullet in the normally carry in

the night.

It appears what is going

on is an almighty power struggle.

For the job of Robert Mugabe.

Definitely. The situation is very

fluid as has been pointed out. No

one knows what exactly is going on

and it is not clear who was in

charge. This is a combination of an

intense succession battle that has

been taking place for two or three

years now. With the former vice

president who was sacked three years

ago and now another vice president

sacked last week and this is the

reaction from the military. Which is

critical of President Mugabe.

And

this is heightening tensions. Can I

ask in your preferred to be the next

president? One of these who fought

in the independence battle or Grace

Mugabe?

Well both factions, one for

the vice president and the other for

the President's wife, they're both

Zanu PF through and through. So it

is a very difficult choice for

Zimbabwe. But at the moment my

observation is that the people are

opposed to the idea of Grace Mugabe.

Anything but the Maghaberry family.

Do you think you'd ever step down

voluntarily? Do you think he'd see

his time is up? He is going to be

taken out there by the army if he

needs to step down, isn't he?

I've

never believe that President Mugabe

would retire voluntarily. My thought

has been that he would like to be

president for life. And what is

happening now we can now see a

pushback from some of his former

allies who are obviously very

frustrated by his rule.

It is

amazing, very briefly, that he

hasn't sorted out a succession.

Absolutely, this is something we've

all been saying, he's had ample

opportunity to find a successor to

sort this out and retire, go out

into the sunset and enjoy his life

but he hasn't. And he has brought

all of this upon himself.

Thank you

both for updating us about the

picture. Seems like a big night in

Zimbabwe.

Let's take a Viewsnight pause now.

Two minutes without news,

but lots of opinion.

And today it's John O'Farrell,

author, comedy writer,

former Spitting Image writer,

indeed, and one time

Labour Party candidate.

His chosen subject?

Satire.

It was five months ago today,

that Grenfell Tower caught fire,

became a national tragedy

and a symbol of some kind

of appalling British failing.

Now of course, in the aftermath,

there is an official inquiry,

a police criminal investigation,

and there are the coroner's inquests

into each of the deaths too.

Do these succeed in providing any

consolation to the friends

and relatives of the deceased,

particularly bearing

in mind that many of those

who died came from abroad,

and that's where many

of their loved ones are?

From our coverage of the fire,

you might remember that one Filipino

woman, Ligaya Moore died on the 21st

floor of Grenfell.

Well, Ligaya had

a memorial service today.

Her remains, having now been

released by the coroner, will be

repatriated to the Philippines.

Our reporter Katie Razzall has spent

time with Ligaya's niece

on her visit to Britain,

as she tried to make sense

of what happened to her aunt.

Well, maybe Aunt Ligaya was

sleeping, maybe she didn't wake up.

Maybe she just stayed in her room.

So I think it would be much better

if she just died in her sleep.

And never experienced the pain.

May's aunt, Ligaya Moore, died

on the 21st floor of Grenfell Tower.

She was a very happy lady.

I couldn't imagine a very

happy person and a lady

who laughs very loud,

was silenced by fire.

She has come to London

from the Philippines

searching for answers.

Her aunt's remains were only

identified almost four

months after the fire.

They found a tooth that

they got from the flat.

And then they positively identified

that it is really Aunt Ligaya.

They told us that

the temperature of...

the heat was double

the heat of a crematorium,

so you could imagine that

really nothing could be

positively identified.

So it really took them

a while to identify Aunt Ligaya.

These are Aunt Ligaya...

these are the things

that we got from storage.

Actually I had at least six boxes

which I collected there.

And she has these letters,

these are some of the letters

which we sent her, actually.

May has chosen these to take back

to the Philippines as keepsakes.

Her aunt had married an Englishman

and was one of the first residents

of Grenfell Tower back in the 1970s.

These are the books

I think which she bought.

Yes, that's her

handwriting, actually.

Her aunt put some of her

possessions into storage

some time before the fire.

These are recipes,

look how old it is.

I think she loved to cook

but when uncle Jim died, you know,

she never wanted to cook any more.

Yeah.

And that was ten years ago?

Yes, that was ten years ago.

Ligaya Moore was the 68th

person to be identified

in the Grenfell Tower investigation.

How soon did you let go of hope

that she might have survived?

Actually, we never did.

We never did.

We hold on.

Actually we hold on until...

Until finally the news came out

that she was positively identified.

We hold on because we still hope

that she might just be, she might

have had amnesia or something.

And she's here and

she's still alive.

So we never lose hope, actually,

until they positively identified

that she really perished

in the fire.

May's aunt and five other people

from Grenfell's close-knit 21st

floor died on the night of the fire.

Nine neighbours survived,

including Marcio Gomes,

who escaped the burning building

with his family and another.

They had been told to stay

put and await rescue.

But it never came.

May wanted to meet her aunt's

surviving neighbours.

Hi.

Hi, I'm Marcio.

Hi, I'm May.

Nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you.

How are you, May?

She was a lovely person.

As you know, anyway.

On that night five months ago Marcio

tried to knock on May's aunt's door.

But the smoke was too thick.

It is unfortunate that

she died like this.

It should never have

happened in the first place.

Yeah, it shouldn't have,

it shouldn't have.

Yeah, it's very painful.

I know, I know.

Especially that we were

miles apart from her.

Of course, because you

are in the Philippines.

Yeah.

I really don't know

what happened to her.

What she's doing, actually.

I presume she's sleeping

when it happened.

Yeah, I don't think she suffered.

It would have been on this side,

you see where the scaffolding is up.

Yeah.

She would have been exactly

where those poles are.

Yeah.

On that side of the building.

OK, OK.

I'm very happy that

your family is safe.

Thank you.

Unfortunately we just

couldn't take everybody out.

Yes, we understand.

At least I think she

is watching over us.

Yes.

Definitely, definitely.

She is watching over us, yes.

But it is kind of painful.

Too many emotions.

Yes.

We have been through that

quite a few times now.

It never gets easier.

Yes, it doesn't.

Yeah, I agree.

You just learn how

to control it better.

Yeah.

They are united in grief.

Marcio and his wife Andrea escaped

Grenfell with their two daughters,

but their son to be,

Logan, was stillborn in hospital

as a result of the fire.

It looks like so insensitive

when you ask, how are you and how

are you doing, after what happened.

It looks like so insensitive

because I do understand.

Well, we are still

staying in a hotel.

And they've been, you

know, very kind to us.

And generous.

They look after us.

It's quite a long time

staying in a hotel.

It's a hotel, you know.

It's not really a house

that you can...

No, you can't really move

on while you're staying in a hotel.

140 Grenfell households

are still living in emergency

accommodation, mainly hotels.

But I mean, it's not just us.

There are a lot of residents

still living in hotels.

You know.

I think it's about half

are still staying in different

hotels in different locations.

I do remember a few Christmases ago

I think it was where she came over

to us and knocked on the door

with mince pies.

Mince pies, yes.

Just to give to the girls.

You know.

And obviously for us as well.

But mainly for the girls.

Yeah.

And I remember she used

to come and bring us that.

Oh, thank you very much.

She used to love Christmas.

Yeah, she really used to enjoy it.

Yeah, yeah.

I just remember once

in the lift, I don't know,

maybe she liked her sweets as well,

she took sweets out of her bag

and gave them to the girls.

"And this for you two as well!"

You know.

You look like her.

Yeah.

I don't think that you do,

just that, it's exactly like her!

When she's finding something funny!

Every time we talk about her,

you learn something about her.

I think it's one way of accepting,

I think it's part of healing.

Now I understand why she loves

this country very much.

And she met the love

of her life here.

I really would say that she lived

a full life, she really

lived her dream, yeah.

That's it for tonight.

It's been announced just from the

last few minutes that Australia has

voted yes in a national vote on

same-sex marriage. I went for it by

61% to 39%. Emily is here tomorrow.

We leave you with the last seconds

of the much talked about Marks

and Spencer Christmas ad,

which the Advertising Standards

Authority has now confirmed

as cleared for broadcast -

despite Santa being heard

to say something extremely

offensive to Paddington Bear.

Apparently it's all in our heads.

I almost forgot. Merry