Emily Maitlis with discussion of what comes next for Zimbabwe, Mark Zuckerberg's plans for the US presidency, Brexit manoeuvres and the deaf singer getting death threats.
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We wish to make it abundantly clear
that this is not a military
takeover of government.
Tonight, the dictator
who said he wanted to live
to 100 and rule for life
is stuck in his house.
Is Mugabe's regime at an end?
And what happens to Zimbabwe now?
We'll ask two Zimbabweans with very
and later the Africa
Minister, Rory Stewart.
Also tonight - is Mark Zuckerberg's
tour of middle America a clue
to Presidential ambition?
And if so, is the world
ready for it?
Mark Zuckerberg would have a very
good chance of winning the election.
If it was Mark Zuckerberg on Donald
Trump in 2020?
I'd say it would be
# And I'll take my place again.
# If I would try...
A deaf singer admits
she received death threats
for entering the hearing world.
We look at divisions in the deaf
community over speaking and singing.
Why does it seem like treachery?
The Armed forces have seized
power and Zimbabwe's
President is under house arrest.
But whatever you do,
don't call it a coup.
Tonight, we're looking
at what appears to be the end
of Robert Mugabe's
37 year long reign.
No one can be sure if he's
been silenced for good.
The streets appear calm,
the transition appears bloodless.
The ruling party - Zanu PF -
is still in charge.
But Zimbabwe is beginning
its hunt for a new leader,
and the mistake Mugabe
made was in getting rid
of his Deputy last week -
a man popular and respected
by Zimbabwe Veterans.
Emmerson Mnangagwe is hoping to take
charge of the country.
He faces opposition from Mugabe's
wife, Grace, who wanted
to carry on the dynasty herself.
And there are calls for real
democratic change from MDC
He was duped out of his election
victory nearly a decade ago -
can the MDC now claim a right
to rule this once
Here's Mike Thompson.
Over the last 37 years no one has
dared forth this 93-year-old former
freedom fighter turned president
from office. But times seem to have
One doesn't want to be in a position
where all of a sudden it you are
seen as quite worthless.
try to carry on as normal, top
figures are already jostling to
replace Mugabe, the world will be
looking at them. The face that
appeared on Zimbabwe state TV last
night wasn't that of the president,
who has led the country for as long
as many of his people can remember,
instead looking sternly out of the
screen was one of Zimbabwe's most
senior army officers.
We are only targeting criminals
around him who are committing crimes
that are causing social and economic
suffering in the country, in order
to bring them to justice.
Firmly in the cross hairs are
supporters of the President's wife,
Grace Mugabe. Mrs Mugabe, who was
first wooed by the President while
she was working in his typing Paul
has her husband's backing to take
over the presidency when the time
Go ahead, do it, I don't
The current head of Zimbabwe's
women's league is believed to have
earned her sociology Ph.D. In two
months from the University of
Zimbabwe. Evidently a quick learner.
Mrs Mugabe, who was recently accused
of assaulting a South African model
with a plug, played a leading role
in getting the previous vice
president dismissed in 2014.
Recently she set her sights on
getting rid of the latest vice
president. The general, head of
Zimbabwe's Armed Forces in a war
veteran himself, has made clear his
total opposition to the presidency
being given to anyone who wasn't a
freedom fighter. However, the man
who would, his deposed vice
president, Emmerson Mnangagwa, who
is now believed to be back in the
country following the takeover by
the army. Born in 1946, Emmerson
Mnangagwa is a war veteran just like
the general. He is believed to have
been part of an elite group of
guerrilla fighters called the
crocodile gang and has been
nicknamed Crocodile ever since.
Under his watch in the 1980s, an
estimated 20,000 people viewed as
opposed to Zanu PF word massacred --
were massacred. In June 2007, the
Zimbabwe government claimed to have
foiled a coup by soldiers. The
crocodile claimed he knew nothing of
the alleged plot, which he described
as stupid. The general seems to
believe that the same word would
describe anyone who claims his move
last night was a coup. His
intentions now and not clear but if
he does harbour ambitions for the
presidency, his CV makes interesting
reading. On the plus side, he has a
doctorate of philosophy degree in
ethics. On the other, he's been
accused of being abusive by his
former wife's, profited greatly from
the Gharbi's controversial land
reform programme and is on a list of
top officials banned from entering
the USA all EU states. So even if
President Mugabe's rule is now over,
they're saying its things cannot
necessarily be said for the
That was Mike Thomson reporting.
Fungayi Mabhunu is an anti Mugabe
campaigner and member
of the Zimbabwe Vigil protest group,
he joins me now.
Nick Mangwana is from
Zanu PF in London.
Very nice of you both to come. Nick
Mangwana, if I can start with you.
We'll Mugabe be back in power, is
this just a pause before he goes
back into power?
President Mugabe is
still in power, he's the man in
charge of Zimbabwe officially right
now supply even though he is locked
in his own home? Even though he is
at home, protected by the army.
does he need to be protected by the
With Paul for presidential
Are you telling me today
nothing has happened, it's not just
functional to have the state
broadcaster taken over by the army,
to have tanks on the street and the
president locked in his own home?
Emily, a lot has happened. But what
has not happened is a coup.
say that stop you on just
establishing that right from the
Because right now, if you
were to ask anyone who is in charge
of Zimbabwe, nobody would say, for
example, the general.
Who do you
think is in charge of Zimbabwe when
you look at it?
From our point, we
think the army is in charge of
Zimbabwe, because they have been on
You are expecting
Mugabe to make a comeback from this?
As far as we are concerned, we don't
know. There is a lot of uncertainty
in Zimbabwe as we speak. What we
know is Mugabe is no longer in
charge, from what we heard last
Is it a good thing the army
is now in charge, what you think the
next step is?
I think we should
stress that this is an internal Zanu
PF affair, infighting. Maybe the
vice president if he wasn't sacked,
we wouldn't be in this position.
What we want is a transitional
government that is all-inclusive.
Zanu PF fight to stop Grace Mugabe
from coming to power, isn't it?
is a fight to establish democracy,
to stop blood-letting, it's a fight
to stop manipulation...
The army is
coming into the street, putting the
president and what looks like house
arrest to establish democracy, is
that what you're saying?
as it sounds, that is in effect.
would will announce elections? How
was that about democracy?
been happening in Zimbabwe for the
last two weeks, since the vice
president was removed from his
position, every person aligned to
the vice president was being
removed, purged. We are going to
Congress, a process in December.
must be very excited now, this talk
of democracy, because the man you
don't want in charge is out and
there is all this talk from the
party of real double casino?
don't believe anything that comes
from Zanu PF. They have deceived and
hoodwinked us in the past. What
makes you think we believe them now?
This, at least it from the outside,
is in-house fighting in Zanu PF. The
people of Zimbabwe, they will only
believe if Zimbabwe have free and
fair elections, internationally
And those aren't coming
until next year, 2018?
elections are due. There is an
electoral process happening in Zanu
PF which is supposed to happen next
month. This is when the first Lady
was expected to assume...
things for our viewers. In the
elections in August next year, your
party could end up in opposition?
You would accept that if you were in
happen in 2008 when Tsvingirai
appeared to win that debate, he
didn't end up in power.
He won by
numbers but we don't do first past
the post in Zimbabwe. We go 50 plus
one. He didn't meet the threshold.
You are going into this believing
there will be free and fair
elections within a year, less than a
year, which could bring the MDC, the
opposition party or anyone else who
wanted to enter this ballot, into
As far as we are concerned
right now Zimbabwe needs a
transitional authority that will
make sure it will revitalise the
country and we want a transitional
government that is all-inclusive and
we don't want a situation where Zanu
PF do what they did last time, where
the opposition with in their just as
the numbers, and they weren't taken
care. We want a situation where the
opposition is there and Zanu PF. The
corruption and sure that there is no
What happens if Robert
Mugabe refuses to go or refuses to
stop being the ruler?
the president should go.
Not stay in
He is in his house, he's
always staying in his house, there
is nothing wrong with the president
being in his house and the houses
You must see how this looks
to the outside world. It's not a
normal day when you have the army on
the streets and a man who we
understand it under house arrest,
even if he wants to be in his house,
and his wife who may or may not have
fled the country to find amnesty
elsewhere, this is not a normal day
There is nothing normal
about what is happening in Zimbabwe
at the moment, that is established.
Cannot I respond about the
transitional authority? What he's
asking for is exactly what people
would complain... That is is this
edition of the Constitution. In the
constitution there was no reference
at all to a transitional authority.
There is a process, if you want to
get rid of President midterm you can
impeach him. He can resign. If
President Mugabe chooses tomorrow...
The army, if they took a bit of his
pal, he can go. That's fine, the
president goes on we go into
elections. At the moment Zanu PF has
to give Zimbabwe the next president.
Thank you both very much indeed for
Robert Mugabe's stated
aim is to live to 100,
and rule for life.
This overweening ambition
would sound far fetched
in the mouths of most.
Zimbabwe's leader, though,
has pretty much done it.
After 37 consecutive years in power,
despite his brutal regime
and his country's decent
into poverty, he still clings on.
His ruthlessness at the age of 93,
has been unwavering.
He took Zimbabwe after Independence
when it was prosperous,
and brought it to the brink
of economic collapse -
more than once.
For the first time in decades,
there is some real uncertainty
about his future...
So will this really spell the end
of the Mugabe regime?
And how will history judge him?
Here's John Sweeney.
There was a time when Robert Mugabe
seem to be a hero, a freedom fighter
for black majority power in white
ruled Rhodesia. That was when Mugabe
was in jail and this man, Ian Smith,
was in power.
I don't believe in
black majority rule ever in
Not in 1000 years. Mugabe,
born in 1924, became a Marxist as a
young man and joined the freedom
struggle. In 1963 he was convicted
for sedition and spent 12 years in
jail. While there, his son died.
And he never forgave
the prison authorities for not
letting him attend his funeral.
On his release, he became the hard
man of the nationalist struggle, his
rhetoric terrifying the country's
It's hard to get up here, dear.
You have to wait for convoys.
I'm waiting for my independence!
Civil war followed,
in which thousands died.
Some of the dead were fellow freedom
fighters, believed to have been
killed on the orders
of an increasingly
paranoid Robert Mugabe.
But to many on the left,
he was an icon.
To me, as an anti-apartheid
activist, Robert Mugabe
was a liberation hero.
I was ecstatic when he was elected
by a landslide in 1980.
Against the old racist
regime of Ian Smith.
That view later changed
At the Lancaster House
talks in London in 1979,
Mrs Thatcher pushed Smith
to step down.
Rhodesia became Zimbabwe,
elections followed and the white
into a black one.
To begin with, he sounded
as nice as pie.
This evening, Mr Mugabe made
a television address
in which he underlined his wish
to create one multiracial society.
It must be realised, however,
that a state of peace and security
can only be achieved
by our determination, all of us,
to be bound by the explicit
requirements of peace contained
in the Lancaster House Agreement.
Which expressed the general desire
of the people of Zimbabwe.
But this is a mass grave
in Matabeleland where in the early
1980s the infamous 5th Brigade,
trained by North Korean instructors,
murdered as many as 20,000 people.
Mugabe's first wife died
and he married his secretary,
Grace Marufu, in 1996.
She became a power
beside the throne.
As the decades rolled by,
life in Zimbabwe got bleaker
for black and white alike.
The currency crashed and the $100
trillion note was minted.
Food ran scarce and opposition
leader Morgan Tsvangirai threatened
Mugabe's grip on power.
In 2007, Tsvangirai got beaten up
but then the old dictator
proved his cunning by taking
the opposition leader
into his tent and sidelining him.
But the great hero of
the freedom struggle -
whatever happened to him?
He was seen as the new Zimbabwean
leader, part of the freedom
struggle, suffered in prison
terribly, suffered very grievous
family loss as well.
Were you foolish to think that?
In retrospect, if you look
at what happened to Mugabe,
he went seriously bad.
Not just with his genocide
in Matabeleland, that genocide
was the start of actually Mugabe
becoming a growing monster.
To that, one could add that Zimbabwe
is a wonderful country
brought low by corruption,
hate and paranoia.
Robert Mugabe is not dead but few
will mourn his passing from power.
Joining me now, Rory Stewart,
Minister of State for Africa.
From the British government's
perspective, is this a good thing?
We don't normally think of military
intervention as good but does
Britain think so?
A lot will depend
on what happens next year, the key
is to make sure we get to a
genuinely free and fair election and
as you have heard, Zimbabwe has
incredible potential. One of the
most educated populations in Africa,
good infrastructure, fertile soil
and great natural resources so the
key test is not what is happening
now in the next few hours or days
but whether we can get to a
situation where there is a good
legitimate government coming out in
line with the constitution next
What do you do at this stage
in terms of government relations? Is
anything reinstated? Do you look at
The answer is we have to
be patient and careful to find out
what is happening. As you reported
well, we know from President Zuma of
South Africa that President Mugabe
appears to be under house arrest and
there is a lot of waiting to see
what President Mugabe does and as
you heard, people expect him to step
down and a transition government to
come in but the key question is
whether we can get the building
blocks in place. I mean the
international community, the African
Union, the Southern African regional
body and the UN, to make sure that
we have in place are free and fair
Forgive me, but even
before you get the building blocks
in place, you have to decide whether
you think this is a President that
is right to set? There will be
neighbouring African countries who
see us turning a blind eye or not
quite sure whether to endorse or
condemn this, we do not want to say
every time the military comes in,
that is fine and we will wait to see
what the building blocks are?
are absolutely right. The key thing,
and the African Union has been very
clear, is to watch carefully what is
going on and Africa has had a bad
history of this stuff and making
sure that everything that happens is
constitutional and clear is vital.
He will have heard that the military
has been poor. Are to emphasise that
civilian leadership remains in place
and some sort of unity government is
being brought together. But again,
this is also, potentially, with all
of the confusion, a moment of
opportunity for some as this
progression goes through, Zimbabwe
has been in a difficult position and
if the international community can
agree, we might be able to move to a
good future. If we don't get this
right, we could see Zimbabwe stuck
in a difficult situation for years.
Would you say you would like to see
the MDC in power? Knowing what you
do about the way Zanu-PF runs and
regs election results?
clear that it must be up to the
people. Nothing would be more
dangerous than for a British
minister to say that I want a
particular party to win. The key is
to Banks Road the election works and
that means international observers
and an independent Electoral
Commission and proper registration
of voters so that people can choose.
You heard my guests saying that
Mugabe is still in power, this is
dressed up as changed and they think
nothing has happened.
That is the
key, Mugabe staying in power is very
disturbing, he has had a terrible
record and has done an enormous
amount of wreck -- damage to the
country, thousands have died, there
was hyperinflation so there has to
be a transition away from Robert
Mugabe but any transition has to be
through a process that creates a
credible, legitimate government.
There is so much economic reform
that is needed, millions of
Zimbabweans who would want to return
and contribute to the future of the
country so the key is using this
opportunity to say, this may be the
beginning of a change but it is very
much only the beginning. The key is,
well those elections be held as they
should be between February and
August, and will they be clean?
mentioned the delicacy of a British
minister in this position, you know
the Middle East well and you are
careful with your choice of words, I
wonder what you said to Boris
Johnson about his appalling choice
of words that may have cost a
British mother in Iran five more
years of freedom?
I saw the Foreign
Secretary this morning and he had a
very serious and warm meeting with
the family and he is very determined
to pull out every stop to solve that
situation but I am the Africa
Minister and not Middle East but my
sense is that meeting went very well
and the family feels grateful that
the Foreign Secretary is engaging so
More than two billion people
worldwide use Facebook,
but not all of us are feeling
so good about it these days.
Not only is it under fire
for its unwitting involvement
in the spread of fake news,
but early investors have in the past
week condemned the impact it's
having on our mental health.
Could this explain why its founder,
Mark Zuckerberg, has engaged
on a year long meet-the-people tour,
trying to hear concerns
and conversations around America?
Some are reading his
moves as the beginning
of a Presidential bid.
I interviewed Mark Zuckerberg
at Facebook six years ago and now
I've gone back to the States
to follow in his footsteps.
I've left the capital
for the Midwest.
In Newton Falls, Ohio,
I'm following in the footsteps
of a certain billionaire.
My wife will love it...
I arrive for breakfast with Daniel,
an Obama supporter who voted
for Trump eight years on.
I'm the second complete stranger
who's turned up for a meal
at his home recently -
the first was Zuckerberg.
Mark coming in and sitting
where you're sitting and saying,
you're probably all wondering why
And I'm like, yeah, I did wonder
that, Mark, you know?
And yeah, that's when he told me
he's on this cross-country tour
and getting out and talking,
wanting to connect with people
and talk with them, getting
to know people better.
The drop-in at Daniel's was part
of Zuckerberg's self-styled
year of travel project,
to the 30 US states he's never seen.
These meet the people truck stops
have been interpreted by some
as a putative presidential bid.
His team told Daniel
that would be wrong.
Just relax, he says,
you can talk to anybody you want.
Just make sure you emphasise
the fact that Mark is not running
for president in 2020.
Ben Soskis has been studying
Zuckerberg's philanthropic activity.
Does he see it as political?
I do not necessarily think it means
he's running for president.
I think these days, the blurring
of the balance between the political
and the philanthropic means
that the demands on a philanthropist
to actually understand his public,
so to speak, are similar
to a national politician.
Everything he does now
is essentially political.
His philanthropic ambitions
and his commercial corporate
ambitions are now political.
One doesn't have to run
for public office to be
a deeply political figure.
When we launched the Chan
Two years ago Mark and his wife
launched CZI, a limited liability
company that offers enormous
flexibility and demands very
Ben thinks the private power
of these wealthy philanthropists
is of huge concern.
I feel that in many cases
Mark Zuckerberg is probably
doing very good work,
but one individual is able
to have an oversized
impact on public policy,
and well beyond what
a normal citizen can have.
There is something profoundly
troubling about that,
something that runs counter to some
When I met Zuckerberg all those
years ago, his mission was one
of technological utopia.
He embodied a youthful optimism
that the world wanted to share
recipes and running routes,
baby photos and pet videos.
Everyone is going to have a much
better experience when they're doing
different things with their friends.
From a dorm room in Harvard,
he created the outstanding economic
success story of this century -
a social media giant
with two billion active users,
or what may be a third of the world
within another year.
He could never have imagined that
sharing would evolve
into something quite so dark.
There's breaking news on Facebook's
involvement with Russian influence
in the 2016 presidential...
CBS News has learned new information
about the extent of Russian linked
activities on Facebook.
Facebook admitting they were paid
more than $100,000 by Russian
companies during the election.
I made some decisions
on the next steps that we're
going to be taking...
Mark Zuckerberg returned
from paternity leave and was forced
to make a public statement.
I care deeply about
the democratic process
and protecting its integrity.
Facebook's mission is all
about giving people a voice
and bringing people closer together.
Those are democratic values
and we're proud of them.
I don't want anyone to use our tools
to undermine democracy.
But just this month,
lawmakers in a Senate committee
hearing were telling the tech giants
they're out of touch.
I don't think you get it.
You bear this responsibility,
you've created these platforms,
and now they are being misused
and you have to be the ones
to do something about it.
But some have noticed a shift.
Where once Zuckerberg
talked of connectivity,
now he talks about community.
Is this a move to make the company
sound less techy, more human?
He and the other
are the new robber barons.
And just like the robber barons
of old, who were challenged
by people who said, this is bad
for democracy, to have so few people
with so much money in power,
well what did the robber barons do?
They started to build
libraries and museums to say,
we're doing good for society.
They really want to see themselves
as sort of Promethean figures
who are remaking society.
All this language of disruption,
of breaking things,
of remaking the world.
I think that he has
a very grand ambition.
So now I'm wondering
if this mission has taken
on a more pressing dimension,
a way to get the public
back on Facebook's side.
Mark Zuckerberg has 98 million
friends on Facebook.
In person, he can clearly impress.
I was very nervous,
but he put us all at ease.
He's just like, I almost
felt like I was talking
to my little brother, you know?
I didn't feel...
At first I was nervous
as heck, you know?
Like my goodness,
because he's a billionaire.
But I'm still curious to know
if a swing voter like Daniel
will come with me on a hypothetical.
Mark Zuckerberg would have a very
good chance of winning the election.
So if it was between Donald Trump
and Mark Zuckerberg
in 2020, which way you go?
I was asked that question before,
and I'm going to say
it would be close.
Last night we showed you a stark
headline on the front page of the
Telegraph. That has been making some
Our political editor
Nick Watt is here.
What are you hearing, Nick?
Quite a backlash against it. Leading
Brexiteers said this is absolutely
wrong. Some of those 15 named their
feel emboldened. I spoke to on this
evening that said the idea that
prompted this is dead in the water,
and that is the government's
decision to amend this bill to put
the date of Brexit, 29th of March
2019 on the face of the bill. My
impression is the government is
listening. One option is they pull
that amendment. I think what you are
looking at is some sort of
compromise. This was debated
yesterday. It won't be voted on,
this amendment, and further down the
line. The compromise could be you
have a date there but you have the
words in accordance with Article 50,
which means you could get an
extension. But it has really created
a bit of a sour atmosphere. It is
even getting into government ranks.
I spoke to one member of the
government who said the Prime
Minister's letter accompanying this
Friday had poisoned the well because
in that letter the Prime Minister
had said, I will not tolerate trying
to block or slow down Brexit.
you very much.
Mandy Harvey, a deaf singer
with an incredible voice,
made headlines around the world
after her success on
America's Got Talent.
She used vibrations from the floor
to pick up the beat,
although she could hear nothing.
And what's your name?
And who is this?
I lost all my hearing
when I was 18 years old.
And how old are you now?
So it's ten years.
I have a connective tissue disorder,
so basically I got sick
and my nerves deteriorated.
I've been singing since I was four.
I left music after I lost my hearing
and then I figured out how to get
back into singing with muscle
memory, using visual tuners
and trusting my pitch.
So, your shoes are off because
you're feeling the vibration?
Is that how you're
following the music?
Yeah, I'm feeling the tempo,
the beat, through the floor.
Mandy, what are you going to sing?
I'm going to sing a song
that I wrote called Try.
After I lost my hearing, I gave up.
But I want to do more
with my life than just give up.
Good for you.
OK, look, this is your
moment and good luck.
# I don't feel the way I used to.
# The sky is grey much
more than it is blue.
# But I know one day
I'll get through...
That was the incredible Mandy.
But when she first took to the stage
she describes how she received death
threats from within the deaf
community for promoting
a hearing activity.
She was accused by some
of promoting 'oralism' -
the word used to explain
the practice of educating deaf
people to use speech and lip reading
rather than sign language.
So tonight, we try and explore
the feelings that lie beneath this.
Why do some deaf people consider
speech and singing treachery?
And why is sign language
perceived to be a more pure
means of communication
and of identity for them?
Joining me now are Honesty
Willoughby and Zoe McWhinney.
through an interpreter.
They're flatmates but they have
Many thanks for coming in to join
us. What did you make of this row,
In terms of the death threats,
really, in the American deaf
community, it is showing that
they're quite frustrated, an element
of people there who are quite
frustrated. There is an
organisation. They are based in
America and they are very, very
strongly termed, their name is AGB
and their promotion of oralism is
very strong. They lie about their
research and really deaf people are
fed up. Hearing people think oralism
is the way forward and it's positive
but deaf people are fed up with it.
For me, linking to that,
I'm quite disappointed with what
happened. I'm disappointed with the
news and how it represented the deaf
community and sending death threats
that, that's not deaf community.
It's a negative representation of us
as a whole.
Eder want to talk about
the death threats. Leaving that to
one side, do you understand where
this sense of discomfort comes from,
betrayal and even, that deaf people
are this word, oralist, using
singing or speaking instead of a
pure red language of sign? Zoe?
I think in America, in America's Got
Talent, that programme, with that
individual with her beautiful voice
which was spectacular, and deaf
people who don't know sign language,
they don't know exactly... They
didn't know that this individual was
not born deaf, she lost her hearing,
she became deaf. So people
immediately recognised her and say,
you are deaf. It's that same
scenario of repeating itself again.
Singing for us is not accessible.
OK, so signing is a pure form for
you in the deaf community of
communicating because it is a world
you are always part of all the time,
is that the point?
In terms of there
being a border between hearing and
signing, there's always that element
of gesture and visualisation. With
sign language, deaf people, that's
how we access communication. English
speech, sap banished speech, French
speech, that's their form of
communication of course, and also...
There's been misinformation about
oralism which is being spread all
over the world. What about sign
language? We need a little bit more
focus on that and more awareness on
that and the importance of sign
Can I ask a question...
Honesty, you were born into a
speaking and hearing family. Your
mother chose not to teach you
through oral language but to sign
instead, how did she make that
Well, when I was born...
Of course when I was growing up I
didn't know anything about the deaf
community. And going through the
medical experience, I was told that
I should learn through oralism but
sign language is my right, that is
my language. My family, my mother
was advised I should be taught to
speak. But my mother looked into it,
she did her own research and
refused. And found out that there is
a deaf community, and they learn
sign language and that is accessible
for me and I have my own language
and its full access for myself.
the outside, for people not familiar
with the deaf community, I'm sure
there will be many saying, it's
great to have signing, why wouldn't
you add in speaking if you can,
singing if you can, lip-reading if
you can as well? Why wouldn't you
have the richest experience you
You agree, do you, Zoe?
I think in terms of speech and sign,
its dual language, quite difficult.
There are some people that can do
that quite well. But to do that at
the same time, it's impossible,
because you lose focus on one
language. In terms of the grammar,
the context, the syntax, everything
that is linked that creates the
language is totally different. It's
a like putting your head and rubbing
your stomach, doing two things at
the same time.
Does it feel like a
political choice for you within the
deaf community to say signing is my
identity, it is my deaf identity and
I don't want the confusion of
Yes and no. I think
with sign language, it is becoming
quite a political issue. It's not an
issue of saying I can't speak, it's
saying I don't speak. Because they
hearing community, it's quite
powerful. And, of course, with
technology, implants and things like
that, and with that sort of research
in place, people can understand the
theory is that deaf people might be
able to speak but we need to also
show awareness that speech can
happen. For example, my family is
deaf, they all sign and sign
language exists in the wider
community as well. I mean, with
hearing people, they've got eyes and
hands, they can learn.
Zoe, thank you both very much indeed
and thank you for interpreting for
That's it for tonight.
We leave you with the first
ever actual video of
a scientific superstar.
Crisper is the tool that lets
scientists slice through DNA
to disable genes or insert new ones.
It's currently the hottest topic
in biology, but you couldn't
actually ever see the process
because it all happens
at a molecular level.
Enter Professor Osamu Nureki
of the university of Tokyo,
and his high-speed atomic-force
MUSIC: It Ain't What You Do (It's
the Way That You Do It).