20/11/2017 Newsnight


20/11/2017

With Emily Maitlis. German coalition talks collapse, post-Brexit drugs rules, Zimbabwe, Charles Manson, and Paperchase v the Daily Mail.


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Transcript


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Political crisis in Germany -

the world's most powerful woman

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sees her coalition talks collapse.

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As Angela Merkel hits the buffers,

has Brexit just disappeared

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off Europe's radar?

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And where does that leave us?

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Theresa May has won support

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of her Cabinet colleagues

to increase their financial

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offer to the EU.

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But does that have any weight

if there is a power vacuum

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at the heart of Europe?

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We expect the motion to be moved

tomorrow, the committee set up and

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we expect that by Wednesday we

should be able to vote in

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Parliament.

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Mugabe refused to be cowed by house

arrest or a resignation speech,

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so why on earth does Zanu-PF think

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they can impeach him in two days?

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We'll ask them if the game

plan has gone wrong.

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Pure evil, pure fantascist,

or just a dull man whom America

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tried to make into a celebrity.

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We look at the death of serial

killer Charles Manson.

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Will his cult carry on without him?

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And an effusive apology

from Paperchase after

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advertising in the Daily Mail.

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Why are activists claiming

this as a victory?

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And what should customers do now?

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Good Evening.

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It wasn't so long ago

the superlatives abounded:

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the world's most powerful woman,

the mother of Europe, or simply,

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in her mother tongue.

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Mutti.

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Tonight Germany's chancellor

Angela Merkel is looking unusually

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vulnerable after a collapse

of coalition talks aimed

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at forming her next government.

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The decision by the

Pro Business Party -

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the Free Democrats -

to walk out on the process -

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has left Merkel isolated.

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She has said she'd rather have

new elections than try and lead

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a minority government.

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Its Germany's problem

first and foremost.

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But its also Europe

and by extension, ours.

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Brexit has just sunk rather far down

the list of things Europe's biggest

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player needs to think about now.

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Our diplomatic editor

Mark Urban covered the German

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elections in September.

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Here's his take on the

mess two months on.

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She has survived so many changes

of government elsewhere,

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but now Europe's most powerful

national leader is in trouble.

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From the moment the exit polls

came out in September,

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it was clear that Angela Merkel had

some tricky coalition

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building ahead of her.

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Yesterday she apparently gave up

on Plan A, power-sharing

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with the Greens and the Liberals,

and today voiced a readiness to go

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back to the country.

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TRANSLATION: New elections is one

option but for a stable country,

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a country that has so many

challenges to face, the option

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of a minority government

is something you would want to look

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at very carefully.

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I will not say never today,

but I am very sceptical and I think

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new elections would be

the better solution.

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There is still a possible plan B,

a coalition with the left-wing SPD

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who have ruled it out up to now

but the fear a new vote.

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Chancellor Merkel has said she does

not want to stand down.

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She sees herself with the

responsibility to provide stability.

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Of course some people think

the situation we have right now

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is in fact a testament to her no

longer being able to

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provide the stability.

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She was not able to bring

the exploratory talks

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to a successful end,

so I think what she is trying to do

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by saying that she would rather have

new elections than a minority

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government is to rope

the social Democrats, the SPD,

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that into a rather lustreless,

probably grand, coalition.

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But with Germany holding such sway

in Europe the current crisis

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could have much wider effects.

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France's president could try

to exert a stronger role

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if Germany stumbles.

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It is interesting for France.

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In one sense I think it will mean

that the French are able

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to drive the agenda and,

for example, will be dominant

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on the European side in the Brexit

negotiations for example.

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On the other hand, what it means

for Macron is he is not going to get

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a German response to his proposals

on European integration and reform

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in the eurozone for some time.

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And of course there is Brexit.

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Ministers today attended a Cabinet

committee meeting intended

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to improve the UK's financial offer

head of a December summit.

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But there is deadlock also

on the Irish border and little

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chance that Mrs Merkel will be

pushing the other countries to agree

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even if she wanted to.

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This is not good news for Britain

because if Germany can't focus

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on Brexit which has already not been

at the top of its priority list,

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then that means that the EU will be

less flexible in its position

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in the negotiations.

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Talk to British ministers

and you find many still cling

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to this idea that Angela Merkel

will deliver a benign

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Brexit package.

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But among those from the other 27

countries you hear something

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altogether different,

that it is Germany that is taking

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the tougher stance on the financial

question and it is Germany that now

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seeks to organise the others around

a very robust position

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on the future terms of trade.

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What difference will

a weakened Merkel make?

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Well, it will mean she is less

liable to take political risks

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in anyone's interests other

than her own.

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For the Prime Minister trying

to navigate the shoals of Brexit

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with her European partners

an already complex task has just

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become even more so.

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What concerns me is that if Germany

does not have an established

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coalition, making decisions

on tricky issues in Brexit like have

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we achieved sufficient progress?

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Can we move to the next phase

of the negotiations?

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Should we have a

transitional arrangement?

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It is going to be more difficult

for Germany and in those

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circumstances it seems to me that

moving forward the Brexit

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negotiation is made more complicated

by what has happened in Germany

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in the last 24 hours.

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Angela Merkel has been around

so long she has seen British prime

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ministers come and go,

but increasingly people now will be

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looking to the post-Merkel era.

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Mark Urban.

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We will discuss the ramifications it

will have an Brexit in a moment.

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Ulrike Franke is a research fellow

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from the European Council on Foreign

Relations.

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She joins us now from Berlin.

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Sticking with Germany, how serious

do you think this is why is proving

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so hard this time around?

Well, the

reason why it is so hard is that it

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was never the Plan A. It was never

was a project that anyone involved

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wanted, it was born out of

necessity. It is not surprising that

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it failed.

You're talking about the

colours of the parties that make up

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the flag, this is the short term of

the parties that she wanted to bring

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with her into the Coalition. You

think that formation has failed for

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good, do you?

I think so. These were

the pre-negotiations, not the

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official once and they lasted for

four weeks and the three parties

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involved could not make up their

minds, could not get together and

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this morning, they decided not to

continue this any more.

Do you see a

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way through this for Angela Merkel?

For Angela Merkel, yes, at this

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point, there are three options. One

is to form a Coalition with someone

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else which would be the SPD, the

only party that is left. That seems

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very unlikely because they have

excluded that. The other possibility

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would be a minority government,

under Angela Merkel. Our European

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colleagues and partners in

Scandinavia for instance have a lot

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of experience of theirs but this

would be new for Germany, we have

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never had it before and it would be

particularly tricky at the moment

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with the right-wing party in

Parliament. The last option would be

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another round of elections, snap

elections.

It is very rare that the

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same leader goes to the same

electorate and does better in such a

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short space of time, do you think

she would go back to the polls is it

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a double bluff?

Well, it seems that

her personally, she seems to prefer

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doing another round of elections to

having a minority government. It is

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true that the big concern would be

whether we actually get another

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outcome, which is somewhat unlikely,

they may be some shifts but it is

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unlikely she will win a stronger

majority. If we have another round

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of elections, that would be in

spring, early spring, we might end

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up with the result that is very

similar to what we have today and

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then we can repeat the whole

process. I will ask you to place

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your bets, do you think that Angela

Merkel will remain the German

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Chancellor? Yes. I would put money

on that, absolutely.

We are talking

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about the arrangement in which she

governs. Thank you very much.

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Mark Urban is back and our political

editor, Nick Watt joins us.

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At the moment there is all this

follows and we do not really feel

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like a priority and even though we

are talking about the divorce

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settlement, is anyone listening?

The

UK ministers, they have agreed to at

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the 20 billion euros on the table,

no figure will be mentioned, no

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figure is meant to be mentioned at

all during the process but it looks

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like that 20 billion will double as

Theresa May puts flesh on the bones

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of what she meant in her speech in

Florence which he said the UK

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would honour its commitments as a

past member of the EU. The key thing

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she said today was that the UK and

EU have to jump together. The UK

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will not agree to this new money

unless the EU talks about the

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transition period. And the future

trade relationship. I spoke to a

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leading Brexiteer who said he is

buoyant and relaxed about this, but

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I spoke to former Cabinet minister

who said we should not be offering

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more money and this former Cabinet

minister, look at the front page,

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this former Cabinet minister said to

me that the UK should be trying to

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make something of Germany's

political difficulties. This person

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said to me, Europe and Germany are

in paralysis, there is a great

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opportunity for the UK to set the

agenda.

No greater opportunity than

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a crisis. Do you think this new

amount of money will be enough to

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make Germany reach for whatever they

can?

A lot of people that you talked

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to say that this is about the money.

Recently, I think the

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three-dimensional chess has got

harder with the winding end of the

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Irish border question. It was always

there as one of the three key

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separation issues but it has now

been explicitly stated by some of

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the senior Europeans that this has

got to be sorted before they go on

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to discuss the wider relationship

and really it has got to be sorted

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before the summit is expected on the

14th of December. It went from being

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just the money question where this

might well have been enough to move

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things forward and make substantial

progress to the Irish question as

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well and that is really complicated

now and if I had to bet, I would say

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we will not be there by the 14th of

December.

If I asked you whether the

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negotiations coming up are, where do

we start?

It is interesting, Michel

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Barnier, had some pretty tough

language about the Irish border in a

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speech today and also he showed he

has been thinking very carefully

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about the future trade relationship.

That Cabinet subcommittee today

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talked about that but the whole

Cabinet has not talked about it yet

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and Michel Barnier was essentially

saying we are up for a really

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ambitious free trade agreement with

the UK but there has to be a level

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playing field. If the UK, as the

Chancellor has said decides to go

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down the Singapore route and

deregulate

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that would not be a level playing

field and the relationship would

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have to be quite distant.

The

Speaker in your piece was talking

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about a robust approach from

Germany, by the feeling more or less

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robust now? They have been very much

so in recent weeks. One hears that

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they have even been talking in very

rough terms about a figure that they

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want to see, even though as you

said, all of what we heard publicly

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by Michel Barnier was that they were

not after an actual figure. They

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have been extremely tough, the

question is now, with Angela Merkel

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in this crisis, will they hold out.

Probably the default position

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because of the difficulties of

negotiating within the 27 is not to

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move, rather than to let up.

Thank

you both very much.

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Perhaps no one should be surprised

that a dictator who swore he'd rule

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to the age of 100 wasn't prepared

to go quietly at 93.

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Impeachment proceedings are about to

begin against Robert Mugagbe,

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Perhaps no one should be surprised

that a dictator who swore he'd rule

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Impeachment proceedings are about to

begin against Robert Mugagbe,

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the Zimbabwean President

who led his country to believe he

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was about to step down last night.

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And then conveniently left that part

out of his long, rambling speech

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on the world's stage.

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His party, Zanu-PF,

who've led the process

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to remove their leader of 37 years,

say they'll start impeachment

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proceedings and the whole process

could be over within two days.

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Outside Parliament students hit the

streets and boycotted their exams

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demanding the man who is the only

President they have ever known to

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step down.

We are sick and tired.

We

want him to resign. We want change,

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the Constitution should change.

But

perhaps the strongest criticism came

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from the group that used to be his

big supporters, the War veterans

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group.

Robert Mugabe, go now, your

time is up, please leave statehouse

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and let the country start on a new

page.

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Well, a draft motion

of the impeachment document has been

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leaked and it blames Mr Mugabe

for what it calls an "unprecedented

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economic tailspin".

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Zanu-PF say he is too old rule

and that he has allowed his wife

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Grace to usurp constitutional power.

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All bold claims.

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So what will happen next?

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I spoke earlier to Priscila

Misihairabwi-Mushonga an MP

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from the opposition party,

the Movement for Democratic Change.

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She told me that the impeachment

process can only happen

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with their help.

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If the impeachment process is given

what is in the Constitution,

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yes, it can certainly

happen by Wednesday.

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But it can only happen

with the cooperation

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of the opposition and to use this

opportunity to then put the demands

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and the things we have

been struggling over,

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to then say, for example,

we need to demand that we put

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into place the reforms that

will allow a free and fair election.

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Because we cannot have the situation

in which the military is so linked

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to a political party.

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The reason why the military

intervened had nothing to do

0:15:420:15:45

with the issues that bothered

the people of Zimbabwe.

0:15:450:15:48

It had to do with the fact

that the military took a position

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around the particular factions

and that cannot be

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allowed to happen.

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Nick Mangwana, the Zanu-PF

spokesperson in London joins me now.

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The last time you were here you told

me he would be gone in two days.

He

0:16:090:16:16

writes his own script and what the

people of Zimbabwe are trying to do

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is to make sure that he would not

have that prerogative all the time

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and every time until this is played

out.

You are pretty upbeat, you put

0:16:230:16:30

him under house arrest and he did

not want to stay and that and you

0:16:300:16:33

asked to deliver a resignation

speech and he did not resign and now

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he is going to be impeached.

Yes, he

is going to be impeached. 210 MPs

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were in the Senate and that is a big

number. We need about 234 to push

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the motion through.

You talk as if

he actually abides by constitutional

0:16:530:16:58

rules. Your whole impeachment

process is about the fact he does

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not abide by the Constitution, so

what makes you think he will listen

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to 234 people?

He does abide by the

Constitution.

What has he got to

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lose?

Once the parliament says he is

impeached, what is done is done. At

0:17:140:17:22

the moment people respect the

authority of the office. Once the

0:17:220:17:28

constitution has declared he is no

longer holding the authority of the

0:17:280:17:33

office that is done.

Are you willing

to use violence to remove them?

No,

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absolutely not.

If he carries on

turning up to work Day after day and

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has the office of President around

him...?

He does not work like that.

0:17:440:17:50

If he claims to be president, what

you are avoiding right now is

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persuading another president because

that will be committing treason.

You

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will be prepared to swearing a

general, the vice president who

0:18:020:18:11

stepped down, you will be prepared

to swear him in even if Mugabe does

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not accept resignation?

Yes.

You

could end up with two men in office

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believing they are president?

We

will end up with one claiming to be

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president. If he does make a claim

to be president, then he is the one

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who has committed treason and we

will deal with him.

Do you think you

0:18:310:18:35

underestimated his willingness to

go?

Everyone underestimated

0:18:350:18:42

President Mugabe stepping down.

You

have known him a long time.

He has

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been ruling as for many years.

What

is interesting for the world looking

0:18:490:18:54

in is they do not say Zanu-PF

realise they had a corrupt dictator

0:18:540:19:01

at that time and they are going to

change it around, you are carrying

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on transition as if it were

seamless. You have stuck by his

0:19:050:19:12

abuses as Vice President?

Know it

needs a lot of reform and that will

0:19:120:19:16

happen. At the centre of this whole

thing is corruption. If you listen

0:19:160:19:20

to the statement that was made by

the general it was corruption and

0:19:200:19:27

corruption.

Why should the people in

Zimbabwe believe that the party that

0:19:270:19:31

has supported Mugabe for 37 years is

the party that is willing to root

0:19:310:19:35

out corruption?

They should have

shown their teeth much earlier than

0:19:350:19:41

this, but we are here now and we are

showing teeth. We deserve more

0:19:410:19:46

credit for it.

Thank you very much.

0:19:460:19:49

The cult leader and serial killer

Charles Manson fascinated

0:19:490:19:51

and appalled America.

0:19:510:19:54

Like so many of its criminals he

gained a kind of rock star status.

0:19:540:19:57

Perhaps he was crazy.

0:19:570:19:58

Perhaps he was evil.

0:19:580:20:05

Perhaps he was just

a pathetic and dull.

0:20:050:20:07

The man who believed he was Jesus

and once claimed he died 2,000

0:20:070:20:10

years ago was finally

pronounced dead today.

0:20:100:20:12

Stephen Smith looks back

on his life and crimes.

0:20:120:20:14

If it wasn't so dark and squalid,

the story of Charles Manson might

0:20:140:20:17

have something of the

Wizard of Oz about it.

0:20:170:20:20

The pathetic figure who pulled

the strings and exerted such

0:20:200:20:23

an unfathomable hold

over the susceptible.

0:20:230:20:27

Charles Manson was raised in prison

for more than half of his life

0:20:270:20:30

before he started the Manson Family

cult and he learned how

0:20:300:20:34

to manipulate people.

0:20:340:20:37

He became a master manipulator

and he fashioned himself

0:20:370:20:41

as kind of an outlaw,

counterculture hero,

0:20:410:20:45

and he melded together this group

of people that became like a family

0:20:450:20:49

and he controlled them like puppets.

0:20:490:20:56

He weaponised them.

0:20:560:20:58

He craved attention,

a wannabe rock star.

0:20:580:21:00

He and his followers

once lived at the home

0:21:000:21:05

of Dennis Wilson of the Beach Boys.

0:21:050:21:07

The band even recorded a version

of a song written by Manson.

0:21:070:21:10

He looked like a hippy

and set up home at a ranch

0:21:100:21:13

in Death Valley, California,

with his acolytes who became known

0:21:130:21:16

as the Manson Family.

0:21:160:21:19

Often young women from middle-class

families who had dropped out.

0:21:190:21:26

But the brutal murder

of the actress Sharon Tate,

0:21:260:21:29

Roman Polanski's wife,

and three of her friends in August

0:21:290:21:32

1969 was seen by some as a macabre

coda to the Summer of Love.

0:21:320:21:38

It was followed by more

killings the next night.

0:21:380:21:41

Detectives believe Manson hoped

to trigger a race war,

0:21:410:21:45

a phenomenon he called

Helter Skelter after a Beatles song,

0:21:450:21:49

and that he would somehow emerge

from the chaos as a messiah figure.

0:21:490:21:58

There followed one of the longest

and strangest criminal

0:21:580:22:01

trials in US history,

Manson's followers singing

0:22:010:22:04

outside the court.

0:22:040:22:08

The authorities insisted

Manson was the guiding

0:22:080:22:11

hand behind the murders,

though he was never accused

0:22:110:22:14

of striking a single blow himself.

0:22:140:22:21

I don't accept the whole situation.

0:22:210:22:28

I was in the desert minding my own

business.

0:22:280:22:31

This confusion belongs

to you, your confusion.

0:22:310:22:34

I don't have a deal,

I know what I have done.

0:22:340:22:37

I judge me.

0:22:370:22:38

What have you done, Charlie?

0:22:380:22:39

In an extraordinary interview

from prison, Manson was still toying

0:22:390:22:42

with his interrogators.

0:22:420:22:43

Here is your chance before

the whole world to tell it

0:22:430:22:46

straight once and for all.

0:22:460:22:47

Did you do that?

0:22:470:22:48

Did I kill anyone?

0:22:480:22:51

No, did you go in and tie

them up them that night?

0:22:510:22:54

Very simple question.

0:22:540:22:55

That night.

0:22:550:22:57

August 10th, 1969.

0:22:570:22:59

That night, August the 10th 1969.

0:22:590:23:01

Did you?

0:23:010:23:02

Why dodge it?

0:23:020:23:06

Why not answer yes or no once

and for all and put it behind you?

0:23:060:23:10

Why don't you want to

talk about it, Charles?

0:23:100:23:13

Because I'm an outlaw and I go

so far and that's all you know.

0:23:130:23:19

Manson was sentenced to death row,

though his sentence was later

0:23:190:23:22

commuted to life imprisonment.

0:23:220:23:24

Even behind bars he was not finished

as a cult phenomenon.

0:23:240:23:31

Not for nothing did the one-time

Brian Warner give himself the stage

0:23:310:23:36

name Marilyn Manson and rockers

Guns N' Roses cover a Charles Manson

0:23:360:23:39

song, gestures of rebellion

or poor taste according

0:23:390:23:42

to your point of view.

0:23:420:23:47

He became a popular

figure while in prison.

0:23:470:23:51

He received more fan mail

than any other United States inmate

0:23:510:23:54

in the prison system at one period.

0:23:540:23:59

Before they changed the law

he accumulated over $200,000,

0:23:590:24:02

selling memorabilia and whatnot

because of his infamy.

0:24:020:24:10

And like other notorious killers

Manson was not short of women

0:24:100:24:13

who wanted to visit him.

0:24:130:24:17

I always say it is easier to get

a date with Charles Manson

0:24:170:24:21

or Scott Peterson than it is with

Brad Pitt or George Clooney.

0:24:210:24:24

The only type of people

in our society who are celebrities

0:24:240:24:29

are either bona fide celebrities

or notorious killers and criminals.

0:24:290:24:36

So these women are basically looking

for their 15 minutes of fame.

0:24:360:24:41

Were you happy when you found out

you were not going to go

0:24:410:24:44

to the gas chamber, Charles?

0:24:440:24:46

I knew I wasn't going to go

to the gas chamber because I hadn't

0:24:460:24:49

done anything wrong.

0:24:490:24:51

Are you scared to die?

0:24:510:24:55

Sometimes I feel I'm scared to live.

0:24:550:24:59

Living is what scares me.

0:24:590:25:02

Dying is easy.

0:25:020:25:08

Stephen Smith.

0:25:080:25:08

Stephen Smith.

0:25:080:25:10

"We now know we were wrong,"

the high street stationers

0:25:100:25:12

Paperchase wrote to customers today.

0:25:120:25:14

"We are truly sorry

and won't ever do it again."

0:25:140:25:16

Their crime?

0:25:160:25:18

An advertising campaign

over the weekend that

0:25:180:25:19

ran in the Daily Mail.

0:25:190:25:22

Readers of that paper were offered

two free rolls of wrapping

0:25:220:25:24

paper by Paperchase.

0:25:240:25:26

But the promotion was spotted

by online activist group

0:25:260:25:29

Stop Funding Hate which targets

companies advertising in the Sun,

0:25:290:25:31

Express and Mail, arguing

that they promote divisive

0:25:310:25:33

and hateful views.

0:25:330:25:37

Stop Funding Hate has now commended

Paperchase for its change of heart.

0:25:370:25:41

The apology when it

came from Paperchase

0:25:410:25:43

was fullsome and earnest.

0:25:430:25:47

We've listened to you about this

weekend's promotion.

0:25:470:25:49

We now know we were

wrong to do this.

0:25:490:25:51

We're truly sorry and we

won't ever do it again.

0:25:510:25:53

Thanks for telling us

what you really think

0:25:530:25:55

and we apologise if we have let

you down on this one.

0:25:550:25:59

Lesson learnt.

0:25:590:26:00

What was this then?

0:26:000:26:02

A victory for the little people?

0:26:020:26:05

All those customers unhappy

with the way Paperchase

0:26:050:26:06

was doing business?

0:26:060:26:14

A professional boycott along the

lines of apartheid in the 1980s?

0:26:140:26:17

A professional boycott along

the lines of apartheid in the 1980s?

0:26:170:26:19

Or a robust attempt at online

bullying, not of an individual,

0:26:190:26:22

but of a corporation?

0:26:220:26:23

The group behind this protest

is Stop Funding Hate.

0:26:230:26:26

It works to change the media

by taking on what it

0:26:260:26:28

calls hate campaigns.

0:26:280:26:29

Recently they've accused

the Daily Mail of a torrid few

0:26:290:26:32

weeks of divisive stories

about trans people.

0:26:320:26:33

They congratulated Paperchase today

for pulling out and promoted

0:26:330:26:35

the apology to followers on Twitter,

many of whom have followed suit.

0:26:350:26:41

But the Paperchase statement may

have lost them equal

0:26:410:26:44

numbers of customers,

who've written their own disgust

0:26:440:26:46

that the shop has been cowed

into today's position by agressive

0:26:460:26:49

pressure from a small group

of activists and said

0:26:490:26:57

In the run up to Christmas,

the relationship Paperchase has

0:26:570:27:00

with its customers is likely

to be vital.

0:27:000:27:02

It's unclear yet whether

there will be net gains.

0:27:020:27:04

But if it was publicity

the company was aiming for,

0:27:040:27:07

then like it or loathe it,

they've got themselves talked about.

0:27:070:27:11

Well, Paperchase told this programme

tonight that they frequently trial

0:27:110:27:14

new brand campaigns and have taken

the commercial decision not

0:27:140:27:17

to repeat this promotion

following significant levels

0:27:170:27:19

of feedback from customers

in store and online.

0:27:190:27:22

And the Mail have put out

a statement complaining that

0:27:220:27:26

Paperchase has allowed itself to be

bullied by a small group of hard

0:27:260:27:29

left, Corbynist individuals.

0:27:290:27:32

Joining me now, Sarah Baxter,

deputy editor of the Sunday Times.

0:27:320:27:34

And Richard Wilson

from Stop Funding Hate.

0:27:340:27:39

Lovely to have you both here. I

guess this is political activism at

0:27:390:27:45

its best, a company listening to the

concerns of its customers and

0:27:450:27:50

changing?

Absolutely not, it is a

company being bullied by a small

0:27:500:27:53

army of Twitter and social media

patrols, using activism as a weapon

0:27:530:28:00

against the free press. It is a very

sad day for Independent media.

That

0:28:000:28:05

his activism, that is what it does,

it tries to change the world?

Paper

0:28:050:28:11

chase has blundered into accepting

the word of a few Twitter patrols

0:28:110:28:17

that Mauro less than 2 million

readers of the Daily Mail on

0:28:170:28:22

Saturday I somehow racists, bigots

and hate mongers. I am sure Paper

0:28:220:28:26

chase does not want to get involved

in that kind of political war.

It is

0:28:260:28:31

an online version of bullying, that

you are inviting people to tweet

0:28:310:28:36

hateful things to a corporation

instead of a person?

The core

0:28:360:28:41

concern is that experts have warned

that the hate in some of the biggest

0:28:410:28:49

newspapers is fuelling hate crime on

the streets and this is not just

0:28:490:28:53

stuff people find offensive and

disagreeable, this is having a real

0:28:530:28:58

impact in people's lives. If you

look at what Stop Funding Hate

0:28:580:29:01

supporters were saying and Paper

chase supporters were saying online,

0:29:010:29:06

they were very friendly and polite.

This is an idiotic argument. What

0:29:060:29:13

Richard and his group is doing is

spending all day trawling through

0:29:130:29:18

newspapers that they themselves

would never read or pay for

0:29:180:29:21

otherwise to find things they are

outraged and offended by so that

0:29:210:29:24

they can deploy social media to

harass advertisers into withdrawing

0:29:240:29:31

their support for a free press.

Newspapers have always depended on

0:29:310:29:37

advertising and the honest pound in

your pocket from the readers to

0:29:370:29:42

publish. What he is really trying to

do is close down these newspapers by

0:29:420:29:46

destroying their source of funding.

Do you deny that?

We do not do that.

0:29:460:29:52

Why not if you do not like them as a

mark maybe you are trying to close

0:29:520:29:57

them down.

The end result is four as

the media that does what we want

0:29:570:30:02

them to do, that upholds the public

interest.

You and your activists

0:30:020:30:08

want to decide what the people of

Britain can read or not, that is

0:30:080:30:12

very arrogant. It is very wrong for

democracy.

The key point is that

0:30:120:30:18

people are being harmed. We had a

hate crime report from the

0:30:180:30:22

University of Leicester warning that

the media has been fuelling...

I am

0:30:220:30:29

sorry, the University of Leicester

decides what people have to read?

0:30:290:30:39

You are setting the moral compass

and choosing the ethical standards.

0:30:390:30:44

If you decide Brexit, if you decided

Brexit was bad or immigration levels

0:30:440:30:51

or that feminist concern about self

identifying men are bad, then you

0:30:510:30:55

choose what stories are what papers

to boycott. That is how this works,

0:30:550:31:00

isn't it?

The only reason I am here

is that over the weekend thousands

0:31:000:31:06

of paper chase customers use their

freedom of speech and expression to

0:31:060:31:13

make... And they use their freedom

of choice to decide to advertise

0:31:130:31:21

differently. We are all about

freedom.

You write for The Sunday

0:31:210:31:26

Times, do you think the Daily Mail

will start changing its editorial

0:31:260:31:30

stance? If people like paper chase

and others, because it goes down the

0:31:300:31:35

list, it was Lego and other

companies, if they start pulling

0:31:350:31:41

their advertising, does the Daily

Mail change the way it write

0:31:410:31:45

stories?

No, it won't and nor should

it. What we need in this country is

0:31:450:31:51

a plurality of views and different

newspapers. I hold no particular

0:31:510:31:57

candle, I am not representing the

Daily Mail or any other newspaper, I

0:31:570:32:02

am representing the fact that we

have a free press that represents an

0:32:020:32:06

enormous range of opinion and people

pay their money and choose what they

0:32:060:32:11

want to read. Richer has decided he

should be the arbiter of what people

0:32:110:32:17

should read?

If they were never

going to advertise their again, they

0:32:170:32:21

just got free publicity, the Daily

Mail will not change either.

Paper

0:32:210:32:25

chase made a decision and they have

every right to make that decision,

0:32:250:32:29

for whatever reason they want.

Advertisers are looking at this will

0:32:290:32:33

be wary of getting embroiled in this

sort of thing because paper chase

0:32:330:32:39

have basically blundered, they are

in the middle of a culture war and

0:32:390:32:44

that is not a place where you want

commercial brands to be. Newspapers

0:32:440:32:48

have always valued their editorial

independence from advertisers, it is

0:32:480:32:53

not right that advertisers call the

editorial line of the paper,

0:32:530:32:57

advertisers can choose to be in a

paper they feel comfortable in.

0:32:570:33:00

There is an irony that there is

nowhere more hate filled than

0:33:000:33:05

Twitter itself, which is very quick

to tell people just however they are

0:33:050:33:12

being about whatever they choose to

be, so why would tend to choose that

0:33:120:33:16

as a vehicle to do this?

There is a

climate of hate and parts of our

0:33:160:33:26

media -- Stop Funding Hate. It is

important when we talk about these

0:33:260:33:29

issues, we talk about it in a

respectful way.

Do you think this

0:33:290:33:33

will hurt or help paper chase?

I

think they have made a smart

0:33:330:33:38

decision.

Lego was rewarded for the

decision they made. I do not think

0:33:380:33:42

it was smart, I think it is a very

uncomfortable place for a commercial

0:33:420:33:47

brand to find itself in, where it

has bowed to the wishes of a small

0:33:470:33:52

number of people against what

possibly as a silent majority.

Thank

0:33:520:33:59

you.

0:33:590:34:03

Two major European agencies

were relocated from London this

0:34:030:34:06

evening as part of the process

of extracting Britain from the EU.

0:34:060:34:08

The European Banking Authority

will now be housed in Paris,

0:34:080:34:11

the European Medicines Agency

will be moved to Amsterdam.

0:34:110:34:13

The move will mean Britain no longer

has control or involvement in either

0:34:130:34:16

of these insitutions.

0:34:160:34:17

As our Business editor

Helen Thomas reports,

0:34:170:34:19

the shift will also mean Britain has

to find a whole new system

0:34:190:34:22

of licensing and approving

which medicines can be used

0:34:220:34:24

here in the UK and how quickly

they can become available.

0:34:240:34:34

A convoluted voting system, a bit of

horse trading between countries and

0:34:360:34:42

a slightly uncertain reward. It has

been described as the business

0:34:420:34:46

version of the Eurovision Song

contest, but the European medicines

0:34:460:34:50

agency and the European banking

authority now have a new home. After

0:34:500:34:56

19 submissions, three rounds of

voting and a virtual dead heat, the

0:34:560:35:01

EMS will leave London for Amsterdam,

the bank regulators are headed for

0:35:010:35:10

Paris. E MA was seen as the bigger

prize. This is a therapy unit at Guy

0:35:100:35:15

's Hospital, regulators can mean a

cluster of expertise and scientific

0:35:150:35:19

know-how that could ultimately

attract businesses to the successful

0:35:190:35:22

city. From the UK's point of view we

are talking about maybe 900 jobs at

0:35:220:35:30

the medicines agency and a couple of

hundred at the banking regulator but

0:35:300:35:33

they are highly skilled roles and in

sectors the UK likes to think it is

0:35:330:35:38

pretty good at. Back in April, David

Davis suggested that subject to some

0:35:380:35:44

negotiation, the agencies could stay

in London. Now it seems they are

0:35:440:35:48

definitely off, so what does that

mean for the UK and what might take

0:35:480:35:53

their place? For the pharmaceutical

industry body, the departure of the

0:35:530:36:06

regulator could leave a golf that

causes other problems.

The industry

0:36:060:36:08

as £30 million worth of GDP to the

economy with the highest research

0:36:080:36:11

and development spend on the

economy. There are several concerns

0:36:110:36:13

with the uncertainty that we have

around Brexit. We could see delays

0:36:130:36:16

of up to one year in the approval of

new medicines and we could also see

0:36:160:36:21

some of the processes that require

certainty about regulation moving

0:36:210:36:25

out of the UK unless we get a

medicines cooperation soon.

Winning

0:36:250:36:31

the banking authority was perhaps

more a matter of prestige than

0:36:310:36:35

business, at least in the

short-term. One European financier

0:36:350:36:39

told Newsnight that the EBA just

spent a veneer of credibility for

0:36:390:36:45

Paris aims to bolster itself as a

financial centre. In London, the

0:36:450:36:49

departure of the EBA is seen as

symbolic, but unlikely in itself to

0:36:490:36:55

dent the city's heft and finance.

It

is really a coordinator amongst

0:36:550:37:01

regulators and we have got extremely

strong regulators of global calibre

0:37:010:37:06

already writing rules and

interpreting and applying those

0:37:060:37:09

rules. In fact, what it does is

allow the UK to do things more its

0:37:090:37:16

own weight which is frankly safer

for the markets systemically. So

0:37:160:37:20

that our regulators can make more

dynamic adjustments are more dynamic

0:37:200:37:24

of refinements to the rules of the

UK.

For others, the agencies are

0:37:240:37:32

about more than a few hundred jobs

and a European rule book.

The EBA

0:37:320:37:39

and EMA are tremendous gatherers of

people and it is a great place to

0:37:390:37:43

meet people, clients and share ideas

and I think that that loss of power

0:37:430:37:49

or soft influence will be something

that the UK will feel.

How will

0:37:490:37:57

medicines be checked and approved

after March, 2019? Will the city

0:37:570:38:01

have a deal that is roughly the

status quo or have to operate quite

0:38:010:38:06

differently? As Europe makes

decisions in its own unique way, it

0:38:060:38:11

highlights unanswered questions at

home.

0:38:110:38:17

Helen Thomas there. He had seen the

front page of The Times, there are a

0:38:170:38:22

couple more, the Guardian and the

Telegraph Brexit stories. The

0:38:220:38:27

Guardian has. A claim that a

pro-Brexit group broke rules during

0:38:270:38:32

the referendum campaign. Vote leave

is under investigation. And there is

0:38:320:38:41

quite a nice story on the Telegraph

which is that Eurotunnel has changed

0:38:410:38:45

its name to create a more

Anglo-Saxon identity. Eurotunnel has

0:38:450:38:51

decided to call itself yet linked as

part of a corporate rebranding

0:38:510:38:54

exercise before Brexit, the French

company which runs it wants it to

0:38:540:39:00

adapt an Anglo-Saxon name as it

expanded.

0:39:000:39:05

That's all from us, but before

we go, on the 20th November 1937,

0:39:050:39:08

under grey skies and cheered

on by thousands of well-wishers,

0:39:080:39:10

Princess Elizabeth married

Lieutenant Philip Mountbatten.

0:39:100:39:12

Today, exactly 70 years later,

the Queen and Prince Philip

0:39:120:39:14

are celebrating their platinum

wedding anniversary.

0:39:140:39:16

Back then remember, Britain's

relationship with the rest of Europe

0:39:160:39:18

was about to change dramatically.

0:39:180:39:19

The Conservative Prime Minister

was engaging in crucial talks

0:39:190:39:21

on the continent while facing mutiny

from his own ranks back home.

0:39:210:39:24

And Spain was in crisis as warring

factions fought for control.

0:39:240:39:27

But some things don't change,

including these grey skies.

0:39:270:39:29

Here are some pictures

from that 1937 day.

0:39:290:39:31

Goodnight.

0:39:310:39:35

BELLS RING.

0:39:350:39:45

Into the dull November morning,

two grays draw the Irish stagecoach.

0:39:490:39:51

Inside, her Royal Highness,

Princess Elizabeth and her father.

0:39:510:39:54

And now the solemn service begins.

0:39:540:39:57

# The quiet waters by...#.

0:39:570:40:02

THE WEDDING MARCH.

0:40:020:40:12

From the palace balcony,

Elizabeth and her husband waved

0:40:150:40:17

to the cheering crowds.

0:40:170:40:18

The nation and the Commonwealth

will pray that the young

0:40:180:40:20

couple may enjoy a long,

happy and fruitful life.

0:40:200:40:22

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Emily Maitlis.

German coalition talks collapse, post-Brexit drugs rules, Zimbabwe, Charles Manson, and Paperchase v the Daily Mail.


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