Browse content similar to 01/12/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
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Tonight, the net
tightens around Trump. | 0:00:03 | 0:00:08 | |
Michael Flynn, his former
National Security Advisor pleads | 0:00:08 | 0:00:11 | |
guilty to lying to the FBI. | 0:00:11 | 0:00:14 | |
Was he ordered to do
so by the President's son-in-law? | 0:00:14 | 0:00:18 | |
And where does this take
the Mueller investigation now? | 0:00:18 | 0:00:22 | |
We're live in Washington
with those who can explain. | 0:00:22 | 0:00:26 | |
Also tonight, ten years ago,
police raided Damian Green's office | 0:00:26 | 0:00:29 | |
and stumbled across porn
on a computer. | 0:00:29 | 0:00:32 | |
Is it in the public
interest that they tell us? | 0:00:32 | 0:00:41 | |
Many Conservative MPs want to know
what another police are playing at. | 0:00:41 | 0:00:45 | |
Any information they found was
obtained using police powers. They | 0:00:45 | 0:00:49 | |
found nothing illegal and yet
evidence is now being put in the | 0:00:49 | 0:00:54 | |
public domain. What were those
former police officers doing? | 0:00:54 | 0:00:59 | |
We'll ask this former
Chief Constable, | 0:00:59 | 0:01:00 | |
and a senior Tory MP. | 0:01:00 | 0:01:02 | |
And, we have new pictures
from besieged Eastern Ghouta - | 0:01:02 | 0:01:04 | |
just outside the Syrian capital,
Damascus, where we find shocking | 0:01:04 | 0:01:06 | |
evidence of widespread starvation -
including children. | 0:01:06 | 0:01:08 | |
Is this the worst humanitarian
catastrophe in what has proved | 0:01:08 | 0:01:10 | |
a vicious civil war? | 0:01:10 | 0:01:15 | |
Good evening. | 0:01:21 | 0:01:23 | |
He lied, and he lied, and he lied,
and tonight he pleaded guilty | 0:01:23 | 0:01:26 | |
to those lies, appearing before
the court in Washington. | 0:01:26 | 0:01:29 | |
Michael Flynn was President Trump's
National Security Advisor who spent | 0:01:29 | 0:01:32 | |
weeks protesting his innocence
in dealings with Russia. | 0:01:32 | 0:01:36 | |
Today, he appears to have agreed
to a deal with federal prosecutors - | 0:01:36 | 0:01:40 | |
which may yet lead them
to the President's door. | 0:01:40 | 0:01:43 | |
This evening, US networks
are reporting that Flynn is prepared | 0:01:43 | 0:01:45 | |
to testify that Donald Trump's
son-in-law directed him | 0:01:45 | 0:01:49 | |
to make contact with the Russians
before he took office. | 0:01:49 | 0:01:52 | |
Flynn's decision to cooperate
with the investigation led | 0:01:52 | 0:02:00 | |
marks a major escalation | 0:02:00 | 0:02:02 | |
in the scandal that has dogged
Trump's presidency since he took | 0:02:02 | 0:02:04 | |
office - although the President's
lawyer insists it implicates | 0:02:04 | 0:02:06 | |
no one but Flynn himself. | 0:02:06 | 0:02:08 | |
Where will it lead? | 0:02:08 | 0:02:09 | |
We head to Washington in a moment,
first, a look at the day's events. | 0:02:09 | 0:02:12 | |
This was the moment many
had been waiting for. | 0:02:12 | 0:02:14 | |
A guilty plea by one at the top
officials in the original | 0:02:14 | 0:02:17 | |
Trump administration. | 0:02:17 | 0:02:20 | |
Michael Flynn accepted
he had lied to the FBI | 0:02:20 | 0:02:23 | |
about his communications
with Russia. | 0:02:23 | 0:02:26 | |
He is no stranger to controversy. | 0:02:26 | 0:02:31 | |
If I, a guy who knows this business,
if I did a tenth of | 0:02:31 | 0:02:34 | |
what she did, I would
be in jail today. | 0:02:34 | 0:02:42 | |
It was in the 2016 presidential
campaign that Michael Flynn | 0:02:42 | 0:02:44 | |
and Donald Trump became close. | 0:02:44 | 0:02:51 | |
Lock her up, that's right. | 0:02:51 | 0:02:54 | |
The Lieutenant General
was a passionate supporter | 0:02:54 | 0:02:56 | |
of Trump and his
controversial policies. | 0:02:56 | 0:02:59 | |
Defending the Mexican Wall to me,
when I caught up with him at the | 0:02:59 | 0:03:03 | |
Republican Convention. | 0:03:03 | 0:03:05 | |
As a military man, when he is
talking about building a wall. | 0:03:05 | 0:03:08 | |
When he is talking about a ban... | 0:03:08 | 0:03:10 | |
Yeah, we're going to build a wall. | 0:03:10 | 0:03:11 | |
What's the matter
with building a wall? | 0:03:11 | 0:03:13 | |
I just visited the Vatican. | 0:03:13 | 0:03:14 | |
The Vatican has one
of the highest walls around it. | 0:03:14 | 0:03:16 | |
Why? | 0:03:16 | 0:03:17 | |
Why does the Vatican
have a wall around it? | 0:03:17 | 0:03:20 | |
His loyalty was repaid. | 0:03:20 | 0:03:21 | |
He was on the short list as Trump's
vice presidential pick, eventually | 0:03:21 | 0:03:24 | |
becoming national-security adviser. | 0:03:24 | 0:03:25 | |
It was an appointment
that President Obama himself | 0:03:25 | 0:03:27 | |
had warned against, telling
Trump the day after the election | 0:03:27 | 0:03:29 | |
not to bring Flynn
into the White House. | 0:03:29 | 0:03:31 | |
The beginning of his downfall came
even before he was in the job. | 0:03:31 | 0:03:34 | |
Allegations surfaced of a meeting
he held with the Russian ambassador | 0:03:34 | 0:03:37 | |
about sanctions. | 0:03:37 | 0:03:39 | |
Conversations Flynn first denied
having, then remembering. | 0:03:39 | 0:03:44 | |
He hung on for the best part
of a month, was fired just 24 | 0:03:44 | 0:03:54 | |
days into the job, when it
became clear he'd misled | 0:03:54 | 0:03:56 | |
the vice president, Mike Pence,
with his lies. | 0:03:56 | 0:03:58 | |
The president was
very concerned that | 0:03:58 | 0:03:59 | |
General Flynn had misled the vice
president and others. | 0:03:59 | 0:04:01 | |
The evolving and eroding level of
trust as a result of the situation | 0:04:01 | 0:04:05 | |
and a series of other
questionable instances is | 0:04:05 | 0:04:06 | |
what led the president to ask
for General Flynn's resignation. | 0:04:06 | 0:04:11 | |
Trump also then asked
the FBI director James Comey | 0:04:11 | 0:04:14 | |
to end his investigation
into ties between Flynn and Russia, | 0:04:14 | 0:04:17 | |
that was according to news
reports at the time. | 0:04:17 | 0:04:20 | |
Trump denied making such
a request but he fired Comey | 0:04:20 | 0:04:23 | |
some months later. | 0:04:23 | 0:04:25 | |
Comey was quick to set
straight his side of the story. | 0:04:25 | 0:04:30 | |
The administration then
chose to defame me, | 0:04:30 | 0:04:33 | |
and more importantly,
the FBI, by saying that the | 0:04:33 | 0:04:35 | |
organisation was in disarray. | 0:04:35 | 0:04:38 | |
That it was poorly led. | 0:04:38 | 0:04:40 | |
That the workforce had lost
confidence in its leader. | 0:04:40 | 0:04:44 | |
Those were lies, plain and simple. | 0:04:44 | 0:04:50 | |
Today's guilty plea
accompanies Flynn's promise to | 0:04:50 | 0:04:54 | |
cooperate in the probe but the real
question in all this is what | 0:04:54 | 0:04:59 | |
chief prosecutor Robert
Mueller really wants. | 0:04:59 | 0:05:01 | |
Flynn appears to have already cut
a deal to shorten a possible | 0:05:01 | 0:05:04 | |
five-year prison sentence. | 0:05:04 | 0:05:05 | |
Muller will want
something big in return. | 0:05:05 | 0:05:09 | |
The prize many think
he has his eyes on? | 0:05:09 | 0:05:11 | |
Trump himself. | 0:05:11 | 0:05:14 | |
Seth Abramson is an attorney
and writer who repeatedly accused | 0:05:14 | 0:05:16 | |
the Trump campaign of collusion
with the Russian Government. | 0:05:16 | 0:05:19 | |
He is in New Hampshire. | 0:05:19 | 0:05:20 | |
And Ron Christie is
a Republican Strategist. | 0:05:20 | 0:05:23 | |
He's in our Washington Bureau. | 0:05:23 | 0:05:29 | |
Gentlemen, great to have you both.
Thank you. Seth, tell us how big you | 0:05:29 | 0:05:34 | |
think this is. For our audience,
what is the most serious charge now? | 0:05:34 | 0:05:39 | |
This is the biggest news in the
Russia process far by a fairly good | 0:05:39 | 0:05:43 | |
distance. It means a prosecutor
doesn't offer this order plea | 0:05:43 | 0:05:46 | |
agreement to the defendant, unless a
defendant can offer incriminating | 0:05:46 | 0:05:54 | |
evidence to someone who is above
them on the chain of command. And | 0:05:54 | 0:05:57 | |
someone who is above the national
security adviser would be the | 0:05:57 | 0:05:59 | |
president and vice president of the
United States. You don't think this | 0:05:59 | 0:06:02 | |
is about wheeling in Jared Kushner,
the President's son-in-law, you | 0:06:02 | 0:06:06 | |
think this goes to trump's doorstep?
There are a number of people in the | 0:06:06 | 0:06:12 | |
hierarchy which includes Donald
Trump junior and Jared Kushner who | 0:06:12 | 0:06:18 | |
may be looked at that you would not
offer this sort of deal which was a | 0:06:18 | 0:06:22 | |
sweetheart deal for Mike Flynn,
unless you are going up the chain of | 0:06:22 | 0:06:26 | |
command rather than laterally. You
are not seriously suggesting this | 0:06:26 | 0:06:30 | |
could indicate both the president
and vice president? Where would that | 0:06:30 | 0:06:36 | |
leave the administration? All of the
allegations right now against Mr | 0:06:36 | 0:06:44 | |
Quint involve his behaviour and
negotiations over sanctions while he | 0:06:44 | 0:06:48 | |
was on the transition team. A
statement says Mike Flynn spoke to | 0:06:48 | 0:06:52 | |
very senior officials on the
transition team while he was engaged | 0:06:52 | 0:06:55 | |
in these negotiations. Jared Kushner
has already been identified as one | 0:06:55 | 0:06:59 | |
of those officials, but people
suspect Mike Pence could be one of | 0:06:59 | 0:07:02 | |
the others as he was running the
transition team. Ron, I will bring | 0:07:02 | 0:07:07 | |
you in and is a brave Republican to
try and defend this tonight. What do | 0:07:07 | 0:07:12 | |
you make of what you are hearing?
Good evening, Emily. I am not as | 0:07:12 | 0:07:17 | |
troubled by Seth is as what unfolded
here today. Let me explain this. As | 0:07:17 | 0:07:22 | |
someone who worked for a
presidential transition back in 2004 | 0:07:22 | 0:07:27 | |
the Bush administration, you are
working in a government building, | 0:07:27 | 0:07:32 | |
write but find us here in
Washington, DC. You are doing | 0:07:32 | 0:07:35 | |
everything you can to transition so
when the president of the United | 0:07:35 | 0:07:39 | |
States leads the parade route and
walks into the White House, the | 0:07:39 | 0:07:41 | |
staff are up and fully running. On a
daily basis, as a domestic policy | 0:07:41 | 0:07:46 | |
adviser, it would be your job to
speak to other officials in the | 0:07:46 | 0:07:49 | |
government. I would surmise that is
a national security adviser, coming | 0:07:49 | 0:07:53 | |
into the administration, it would be
your job to establish relations with | 0:07:53 | 0:07:58 | |
foreign ambassadors in the United
States, who are serving their | 0:07:58 | 0:08:07 | |
nations. So the notion that Mr Flynn
lied, that is his responsibility, | 0:08:07 | 0:08:09 | |
and that is why he was fired 25 days
into the trump administration by the | 0:08:09 | 0:08:12 | |
president himself, for those lies,
for which he was implicated and | 0:08:12 | 0:08:16 | |
indicted today. To suggest this goes
to be president or the vice | 0:08:16 | 0:08:20 | |
president themselves, I think that
is way to spec litter that this | 0:08:20 | 0:08:23 | |
point and there is no evidence in
fact to prove that allegation. -- | 0:08:23 | 0:08:32 | |
point and there is no evidence in
fact to prove that allegation. --. | 0:08:32 | 0:08:33 | |
Is there anything wrong with what
Flynn is now accused of doing? Let's | 0:08:33 | 0:08:38 | |
be clear the allegations right now
are not that Mr Flynn was trying to | 0:08:38 | 0:08:41 | |
establish a range of ship with the
Russians in December 2016, it is | 0:08:41 | 0:08:46 | |
that he was negotiating US policy on
sanctions and Israel, before he and | 0:08:46 | 0:08:50 | |
Mr Trump were actually the legal
government of the United States, and | 0:08:50 | 0:08:53 | |
that is a violation under the Logan
act which is very rarely enforced, | 0:08:53 | 0:08:56 | |
but it has to do with citizens
illegally negotiating with foreign | 0:08:56 | 0:09:11 | |
governments, having no colour
authority to do so. Having said | 0:09:18 | 0:09:20 | |
that, let's understand the
allegations which came out today and | 0:09:20 | 0:09:22 | |
what Mr Flynn pledged to is only the
smallest point of what he told Mr | 0:09:22 | 0:09:25 | |
Muller and he was careful to shield
what he knew about Mr Flynn's | 0:09:25 | 0:09:28 | |
conversations in his charging
documents. Ron, I'm trying to work | 0:09:28 | 0:09:30 | |
out if you are representative of
other Republicans or is there a | 0:09:30 | 0:09:32 | |
growing voice which says this is
becoming too big to ignore? Emily, I | 0:09:32 | 0:09:35 | |
come at this from the perspective of
being a lawyer and having served in | 0:09:35 | 0:09:39 | |
the White House and four years, and
knowing what it is like to bring the | 0:09:39 | 0:09:43 | |
government up to speed so the
president and vice presidents can | 0:09:43 | 0:09:47 | |
assume office. But you would never
have done these things. You would | 0:09:47 | 0:09:51 | |
never have set up meetings with
Russian | 0:09:51 | 0:10:03 | |
ambassadors period, would you? I
would not have, absolutely not. But | 0:10:26 | 0:10:28 | |
the Logan act which was passed in
1799 says it is illegal for private | 0:10:28 | 0:10:31 | |
citizens to interfere with official
government business. I was content | 0:10:31 | 0:10:33 | |
to you as a lawyer, if you're
working in a federal office building | 0:10:33 | 0:10:36 | |
in the United States, and you're
bringing the president and vice | 0:10:36 | 0:10:38 | |
president into office, it is not Ed
Ling as a private citizen of any | 0:10:38 | 0:10:41 | |
conversations he might have.
Presumably, just back to you, Seth, | 0:10:41 | 0:10:43 | |
if he has pleaded guilty to lying to
the FBI and he has cut some sort of | 0:10:43 | 0:10:46 | |
deal, what would that look like? We
are not used to plea bargaining | 0:10:46 | 0:10:49 | |
here, talk us through it. Mr Flynn
pleaded guilty to a one to five year | 0:10:49 | 0:10:53 | |
sentence in prison, but he could see
no time in federal prison | 0:10:53 | 0:10:57 | |
whatsoever. Mr Christie keeps
referring to federal buildings being | 0:10:57 | 0:11:02 | |
used for the transition, it should
be clear from the statement of the | 0:11:02 | 0:11:05 | |
offence that Mr Flynn was having
contact with quote very senior | 0:11:05 | 0:11:09 | |
officials in the transition who were
in Florida, not in a federal | 0:11:09 | 0:11:14 | |
building, and at the time is the
Flynn was having those buildings, Mr | 0:11:14 | 0:11:18 | |
Trump was in Florida. I'm not a
defender of Mr Trump or Mr p. I | 0:11:18 | 0:11:25 | |
speak from experience which suggests
that where the president elect or | 0:11:25 | 0:11:31 | |
the vice president elect might be.
Just because they are not physically | 0:11:31 | 0:11:34 | |
in the office building I am making
reference to does not mean it is | 0:11:34 | 0:11:39 | |
nefarious, that he was at Mara Lago.
I will agree with you on this. | 0:11:39 | 0:11:45 | |
Seth's comments, as a lawyer I look
at this and say the special counsel | 0:11:45 | 0:11:53 | |
is clearly going higher, because the
crimes he was alleged to have | 0:11:53 | 0:11:56 | |
committed would have put him in jail
for 20 plus years. There is clearly | 0:11:56 | 0:12:01 | |
someone else that General Flynn will
be co-operating with with the | 0:12:01 | 0:12:06 | |
special counsel, that could take us
even further inside the gates of the | 0:12:06 | 0:12:09 | |
White House. And as to who that
person is or who the persons might | 0:12:09 | 0:12:13 | |
be, I think that is what the next
parlour game here in Washington is, | 0:12:13 | 0:12:18 | |
who is next? We have run out of time
but thank you for joining us. | 0:12:18 | 0:12:23 | |
The case of pornography found
on a minister's office computer | 0:12:23 | 0:12:31 | |
is one of two things: the story
of a Deputy PM who's | 0:12:31 | 0:12:37 | |
lying. | 0:12:37 | 0:12:38 | |
Or the story of a police officer
who's overreached his powers. | 0:12:38 | 0:12:40 | |
Today, Theresa May's deputy,
Damian Green, strongly denied once | 0:12:40 | 0:12:42 | |
again that he had downloaded
or viewed pornography | 0:12:42 | 0:12:44 | |
on his office computer. | 0:12:44 | 0:12:45 | |
It came as a response to the claims
of a retired police detective, | 0:12:45 | 0:12:49 | |
Neil Lewis, who said thousands
of legal images | 0:12:49 | 0:12:50 | |
were found on it nine years ago,
and that the investigation | 0:12:50 | 0:12:53 | |
at the time should
never have been closed. | 0:12:53 | 0:12:55 | |
He believes it was in the public
interest to reveal this now. | 0:12:55 | 0:12:58 | |
Scotland Yard is investigating him
for allegedly | 0:12:58 | 0:13:00 | |
leaking the confidential material. | 0:13:00 | 0:13:01 | |
So, who do you trust? | 0:13:01 | 0:13:02 | |
And how comfortable are we with
the way this has emerged? | 0:13:02 | 0:13:05 | |
We'll speak to a former police
officer and to Green's colleague | 0:13:05 | 0:13:07 | |
Dominic Grieve. | 0:13:07 | 0:13:08 | |
First, here's David Grossman. | 0:13:08 | 0:13:18 | |
It is worth reminding ourselves why
police came to search computers in | 0:13:22 | 0:13:28 | |
Damian Green's office. The Home
Office claimed a threat to national | 0:13:28 | 0:13:31 | |
security. The Cabinet Office asked
the net to find the mole. Without a | 0:13:31 | 0:13:38 | |
warrant they persuaded the Commons
authorities to let them search | 0:13:38 | 0:13:40 | |
Damian Green's Parliamentary office.
There was outrage among MPs, | 0:13:40 | 0:13:43 | |
especially as police concluded he
had not committed a public offence. | 0:13:43 | 0:13:47 | |
The then Director of Public
Prosecutions who throughout the case | 0:13:47 | 0:13:51 | |
is now a Labour Shadow minister. I
have concluded the information leak | 0:13:51 | 0:13:56 | |
was not secret information or
information affecting national | 0:13:56 | 0:13:59 | |
security. Skip forward nine years
and retired police officers are now | 0:13:59 | 0:14:03 | |
alleging that Mr Green's computer
had pornography on it, although | 0:14:03 | 0:14:08 | |
nothing illegal. Former PC Neil
Lewis examined one of the | 0:14:08 | 0:14:21 | |
computers in 2008, and has spoken
exclusively to BBC News. The | 0:14:22 | 0:14:25 | |
shocking thing was as I was feeling
it, I noticed a lot of pornography | 0:14:25 | 0:14:28 | |
thumbnails, which indicated web
browsing. But a lot, a lot of them. | 0:14:28 | 0:14:35 | |
Mr Green, however, denies having
done anything wrong. I have said I | 0:14:35 | 0:14:40 | |
am not commenting any further while
the investigation is going on. I | 0:14:40 | 0:14:43 | |
have maintained all along, I still
maintain it is the truth that I did | 0:14:43 | 0:14:48 | |
not download or look at pornography
on my computer. But obviously, while | 0:14:48 | 0:14:51 | |
the investigation is going on, I
can't say any more. | 0:14:51 | 0:14:58 | |
The raid on Mr Green's Parliamentary
office was controversial at the time | 0:14:58 | 0:15:03 | |
and it is controversial again. Many
MPs want to know what the police are | 0:15:03 | 0:15:08 | |
playing at. Any information they
found was found using police powers. | 0:15:08 | 0:15:13 | |
There was nothing illegal but
evidence is now being put into the | 0:15:13 | 0:15:17 | |
public domain for that there is
anger that former Constable Lewis | 0:15:17 | 0:15:20 | |
has kept his notebook of the
investigation after retirement and | 0:15:20 | 0:15:24 | |
is showing it to reporters. Nearly a
decade later, based on one surviving | 0:15:24 | 0:15:32 | |
evidential source, a notebook which
Constable Lewis has kept in his | 0:15:32 | 0:15:37 | |
possession after retirement. It
seems more than a little odd. The | 0:15:37 | 0:15:42 | |
allegation against Mr Green has come
not only from former Constable Lewis | 0:15:42 | 0:15:47 | |
but from the more senior Assistant
Commissioner, Bob quick. Is this the | 0:15:47 | 0:15:52 | |
police getting involved in politics?
I don't think so. There are plenty | 0:15:52 | 0:15:57 | |
of politicians around that the
police dislike more than Damian | 0:15:57 | 0:16:00 | |
Green. He would not be top of the
list. I know him a little and he is | 0:16:00 | 0:16:06 | |
an honest man with integrity. I
would not anticipate he is doing | 0:16:06 | 0:16:14 | |
this maliciously or anything else.
It would just appear to be you have | 0:16:14 | 0:16:17 | |
police officers with some
information and they have shared it | 0:16:17 | 0:16:19 | |
in the way they have. Meanwhile, the
politics is getting Commper coated. | 0:16:19 | 0:16:25 | |
Cabinet Office investigations into
the conduct of Damian Green is | 0:16:25 | 0:16:29 | |
expected to report imminently. The
Brexit secretary, David Davis, has | 0:16:29 | 0:16:36 | |
apparently told friends he may
resign if Damian Green is forced | 0:16:36 | 0:16:38 | |
out. | 0:16:38 | 0:16:42 | |
Dominic Grieve is a Conservative MP,
former Attorney General | 0:16:42 | 0:16:44 | |
and was Shadow Home Secretary
at the time | 0:16:44 | 0:16:46 | |
of Damian Green's arrest in 2008. | 0:16:46 | 0:16:47 | |
Tim Brain is former Chief Constable
of Gloucestershire. | 0:16:47 | 0:16:54 | |
Very nice of you both to come in
this evening. Do you accept this was | 0:16:54 | 0:16:59 | |
unacceptable behaviour? It is
chilling that police should have | 0:16:59 | 0:17:04 | |
your computer and once they have it
they can use it against you whenever | 0:17:04 | 0:17:07 | |
they want. They are not using a
computer against you, we are looking | 0:17:07 | 0:17:12 | |
at notes that the others are kept
and has kept for a long time. I | 0:17:12 | 0:17:18 | |
don't know if he was told to destroy
them. Interesting he was told to | 0:17:18 | 0:17:22 | |
destroy them. I find that quite an
interesting observation that was | 0:17:22 | 0:17:27 | |
made. I have got at home lots of
police records that go back 40 years | 0:17:27 | 0:17:31 | |
of that there is nothing odd about
individual officers keeping their | 0:17:31 | 0:17:35 | |
own notes. No one has ever told me
to destroy any of that. We're not | 0:17:35 | 0:17:40 | |
looking at the computer, we are
looking at somebody's collection of | 0:17:40 | 0:17:45 | |
what is considered to be important.
We have to put this into context of | 0:17:45 | 0:17:52 | |
has unravelled. Have to go back to
the Weinstein revelations and the | 0:17:52 | 0:17:55 | |
moral panic that gripped Westminster
in the immediate aftermath of that. | 0:17:55 | 0:18:00 | |
Allegations were made. Cabinet
Office enquiry has opened up and | 0:18:00 | 0:18:03 | |
police officers have come forward
with what bigoted to be relevant | 0:18:03 | 0:18:07 | |
information to that in choir in.
That is what we are talking about. | 0:18:07 | 0:18:13 | |
-- they believe to be relevant
information. Do think it is about | 0:18:13 | 0:18:18 | |
whether a minister has had
pornography on his computer? It is a | 0:18:18 | 0:18:25 | |
workplace computer. Are we happy
that our MPs can have this kind of | 0:18:25 | 0:18:29 | |
material on what is an official
computer? As a member of the public, | 0:18:29 | 0:18:34 | |
I would like to know the answer to
that. Nobody is doubting the fact | 0:18:34 | 0:18:39 | |
there is some kind of electronic
trace of this particular deal on a | 0:18:39 | 0:18:44 | |
computer. We need to have some
answers. Now this information is in | 0:18:44 | 0:18:49 | |
the public domain. Let's ask Dominic
Grieve. Are you happy? This cannot | 0:18:49 | 0:18:55 | |
be right. Other citizens do not have
these powers to investigate crime, | 0:18:55 | 0:19:03 | |
including carrying out acts like
acquiring data that nobody scan. It | 0:19:03 | 0:19:06 | |
is for the purpose of a criminal
investigation. -- else can. They | 0:19:06 | 0:19:11 | |
acquire that information, whether it
is correct or not. Many years later | 0:19:11 | 0:19:16 | |
they decide to put it into the
public domain because we think it | 0:19:16 | 0:19:19 | |
will make an important point. They
are in breach of their own code of | 0:19:19 | 0:19:26 | |
conduct. If they thought it was
relevant to this enquiry, what they | 0:19:26 | 0:19:30 | |
should have done was to go to
Cressida Dick, the Chief | 0:19:30 | 0:19:35 | |
Commissioner, and to say, might this
be relevant to the inquiry being | 0:19:35 | 0:19:38 | |
carried out at the Cabinet Office?
And then it would be handed over. | 0:19:38 | 0:19:45 | |
Lewis offered to go to the inquiry
but they did not take him up on it. | 0:19:45 | 0:19:50 | |
There is this information about the
minister who was back in the | 0:19:50 | 0:19:53 | |
spotlight shouldn't they be doing
the public service by coming forward | 0:19:53 | 0:19:58 | |
and saying yes, we remember this,
even if it was a decade ago? | 0:19:58 | 0:20:03 | |
Certainly not. I was Attorney
General. In my time as Attorney | 0:20:03 | 0:20:08 | |
General I have acquired allsorts of
information which would be grossly | 0:20:08 | 0:20:11 | |
improper for me to put into the
public domain. Even if there was | 0:20:11 | 0:20:16 | |
pornography which was being looked
at by Damian Green? You are saying | 0:20:16 | 0:20:22 | |
no relevance now. The police went to
Westminster in 2008 because there | 0:20:22 | 0:20:26 | |
was an allegation of a breach of the
Official Secrets Act. They carried | 0:20:26 | 0:20:33 | |
out a pack handed investigation
which attracted a lot of criticism. | 0:20:33 | 0:20:36 | |
I don't know what they found in the
course of that enquiry but it is | 0:20:36 | 0:20:40 | |
apparent what they found is not
criminal. Even on their own say-so | 0:20:40 | 0:20:44 | |
it did not lead to any criminal
prosecution, nor any criminal | 0:20:44 | 0:20:51 | |
investigation, a separate one. Eight
years later, they choose to put | 0:20:51 | 0:20:55 | |
material which an ordinary citizen
would be prohibited from acquiring | 0:20:55 | 0:20:59 | |
under data protection rules into the
public domain on their own judgment. | 0:20:59 | 0:21:08 | |
There is a way of dealing with that.
If you think something is relevant, | 0:21:08 | 0:21:11 | |
you do it by proper official means
also you do not go freelancing, as | 0:21:11 | 0:21:14 | |
these officers have done. It has the
smack of the police state about it. | 0:21:14 | 0:21:17 | |
It is worrying. Is it about a
vendetta? I think we have to look at | 0:21:17 | 0:21:25 | |
Mr Lewis today. I have never seen
that officer before in my life until | 0:21:25 | 0:21:29 | |
we have seen the images today for
some he does not strike me as a | 0:21:29 | 0:21:34 | |
vengeful person going through a
series of vengeful acts. Was he | 0:21:34 | 0:21:37 | |
right to do it? We have to look at a
different motivation. Police | 0:21:37 | 0:21:42 | |
officers can feel very strongly
about information they might feel | 0:21:42 | 0:21:46 | |
the public should know about that is
being suppressed. These officers are | 0:21:46 | 0:21:50 | |
taking a risk in doing what they are
doing. The first risk is the | 0:21:50 | 0:21:56 | |
internal enquiry. The second risk is
the court of public scrutiny through | 0:21:56 | 0:22:01 | |
a slander or libel action. They have
taken a big risk. I asked the | 0:22:01 | 0:22:06 | |
question, why have they been able to
take the big risk, other than they | 0:22:06 | 0:22:11 | |
feel it is information which should
get into the public domain? What | 0:22:11 | 0:22:16 | |
should happen now? Should it go to
Cressida Dick? Should the PM | 0:22:16 | 0:22:21 | |
dismissed the investigation as a
result of these actions? Where are | 0:22:21 | 0:22:26 | |
you? There was an allegation against
Damian Green of misconduct, which is | 0:22:26 | 0:22:31 | |
being enquired into by the Cabinet
Office. He denies it was that it is | 0:22:31 | 0:22:36 | |
a serious allegation and quite
rightly it should be investigated. I | 0:22:36 | 0:22:40 | |
am not sure I understand the alleged
link between that enquiry on the | 0:22:40 | 0:22:49 | |
allegations of an illegal kind which
was found on his computer. He denied | 0:22:49 | 0:22:51 | |
the access to it. You believe it.
The issue at the moment is, is it | 0:22:51 | 0:23:00 | |
proper for two retired police
officers in breach of the police | 0:23:00 | 0:23:05 | |
code of conduct to take information
which they acquired, or say they | 0:23:05 | 0:23:10 | |
acquired, during the course of a
criminal investigation it into the | 0:23:10 | 0:23:15 | |
public domain? We know that with
historic cases, people are always | 0:23:15 | 0:23:18 | |
been blamed for not coming forward
with information they had at their | 0:23:18 | 0:23:23 | |
fingertips. We give the police
powers others do not have. They do | 0:23:23 | 0:23:28 | |
not and must not be allowed to abuse
those powers full stop there are | 0:23:28 | 0:23:32 | |
ways of dealing with allegations.
The police thought this was | 0:23:32 | 0:23:35 | |
relevant. There are perfectly clear
channels for dealing with it. Not by | 0:23:35 | 0:23:39 | |
going to the press. What we are
seeing here is exactly what the | 0:23:39 | 0:23:46 | |
politicians would like, to focus on
the police are not themselves. Thank | 0:23:46 | 0:23:50 | |
you both very much indeed. | 0:23:50 | 0:23:54 | |
On Monday, we brought
you extraordinary and distressing | 0:23:54 | 0:23:55 | |
pictures from Eastern Ghouta -
the part of Syria just outside | 0:23:55 | 0:23:58 | |
the capital Damascus -
that has been under siege for years. | 0:23:58 | 0:24:01 | |
This week, the United Nations called
for the urgent evacuation | 0:24:01 | 0:24:03 | |
of hundreds of the sick and injured. | 0:24:03 | 0:24:05 | |
And tonight, this programme has
gathered evidence that | 0:24:05 | 0:24:07 | |
food shortages have led to child
starvation - | 0:24:07 | 0:24:09 | |
and the most widespread malnutrition
of the vicious civil war. | 0:24:09 | 0:24:12 | |
Here's Mike Thomson -
and a warning | 0:24:12 | 0:24:13 | |
that it contains distressing images. | 0:24:13 | 0:24:22 | |
This is what siege means. Young
children are among the first to | 0:24:22 | 0:24:28 | |
suffer. This is an eight-year-old
child. Who in the world would accept | 0:24:28 | 0:24:34 | |
that? Do you think it is normal? He
should be taller and stronger. After | 0:24:34 | 0:24:42 | |
nearly four years of siege, the
third of children surveyed in | 0:24:42 | 0:24:46 | |
eastern Ghouta are stunted, due to
malnutrition. We are nine people in | 0:24:46 | 0:24:51 | |
the house. We have one meal a day
until the next morning. At night he | 0:24:51 | 0:24:55 | |
does not sleep. He would pick up
anything off the floor to eat. With | 0:24:55 | 0:25:01 | |
only tiny amounts of aid now
trickling in, the UN says the plight | 0:25:01 | 0:25:05 | |
of the area per flight children has
reached crisis proportions. The kit | 0:25:05 | 0:25:14 | |
manager issued today is five times
higher than it was ten months ago | 0:25:14 | 0:25:17 | |
when we did, or the last
malnutrition assessment, close to | 0:25:17 | 0:25:22 | |
12% of children are facing today
acute malnutrition in eastern | 0:25:22 | 0:25:28 | |
Ghouta. That is the highest level of
the cute malnutrition we have ever | 0:25:28 | 0:25:33 | |
recorded across Syria. There is
little food for sale in the markets | 0:25:33 | 0:25:37 | |
and the prices are now beyond the
reach of most. Bread costs 85 times | 0:25:37 | 0:25:43 | |
the price it does in neighbouring
Damascus. And, as winter sets in, | 0:25:43 | 0:25:48 | |
the price of a cylinder of gas has
topped $300. It is not enough that | 0:25:48 | 0:25:55 | |
we are hungry and cold. We are
covering ourselves with nylon sheets | 0:25:55 | 0:25:59 | |
to keep as warm and lighting fires
to cook. God help us extra is what | 0:25:59 | 0:26:05 | |
we are like barn animals now. We eat
barley. What can I say? With few if | 0:26:05 | 0:26:11 | |
any nutrients to hand out, doctors
are Rovman Powell is to help. We are | 0:26:11 | 0:26:17 | |
witnessing incidents where children
are fainting at school because | 0:26:17 | 0:26:20 | |
parents are sending their children
to school without having breakfast, | 0:26:20 | 0:26:24 | |
and sometimes without even having
dinner. Within 24 hours a child | 0:26:24 | 0:26:29 | |
sometimes receives no meals. With
food and medical supplies vanishing, | 0:26:29 | 0:26:34 | |
and this week plus my brief
ceasefire now at an end, the UN is | 0:26:34 | 0:26:40 | |
desperately trying to get those with
the most urgent medical needs | 0:26:40 | 0:26:44 | |
evacuated. Local officials insist
the area's malnourished children | 0:26:44 | 0:26:50 | |
must be brought out too. If we wait
another month, 11th percent of | 0:26:50 | 0:26:58 | |
children, most of them will die. --
11%. Most of them are critical. Over | 0:26:58 | 0:27:09 | |
recent weeks, many families have
lived in their basements, the only | 0:27:09 | 0:27:13 | |
places offering shelter from the
bombs and mortars. But there is no | 0:27:13 | 0:27:17 | |
refuge from hunger. We are picking
up anything we can, even food from | 0:27:17 | 0:27:23 | |
the bins. My twin babies are dying.
We need milk come just for the | 0:27:23 | 0:27:30 | |
twins. Everything is expensive. For
the sake of God, open the road. We | 0:27:30 | 0:27:36 | |
are dying, dying of hunger. Having
created this hunger, bringing the | 0:27:36 | 0:27:45 | |
rebel enclave to its knees, only
victory might persuade the Syrian | 0:27:45 | 0:27:49 | |
government to break its own siege. | 0:27:49 | 0:27:52 | |
Mike Thomson. | 0:27:52 | 0:27:53 | |
Lina Khatib is head
of the Middle East programme | 0:27:53 | 0:27:55 | |
at the Chatham House think tank. | 0:27:55 | 0:27:59 | |
Just seeing some of those images
seems incomprehensible. This is | 0:27:59 | 0:28:05 | |
meant to be the de-escalation zone,
an area where things are getting | 0:28:05 | 0:28:10 | |
better. Actually, things never got
better in Ghouta. It has been under | 0:28:10 | 0:28:16 | |
siege for four years now. It is only
nominally part of the de-escalation | 0:28:16 | 0:28:21 | |
zone agreement. We are seeing an
escalation, as we can see. The | 0:28:21 | 0:28:25 | |
ceasefire that was in place for a
short period of time has quickly | 0:28:25 | 0:28:30 | |
ended. Since mid-November we have
seen around 250 air strikes in the | 0:28:30 | 0:28:36 | |
area. The humanitarian corridor has
been shut off by the forces of | 0:28:36 | 0:28:46 | |
Assad. Why is that still in place if
he feels dominant there? He does not | 0:28:46 | 0:28:49 | |
yet feel he has one. The strategy
the regime is using in eastern | 0:28:49 | 0:28:54 | |
Ghouta has been used in other areas
which got a lot of media attention | 0:28:54 | 0:28:58 | |
because there was a famine in that
area. It was used in homes and also | 0:28:58 | 0:29:04 | |
eastern Aleppo. It is a strategy.
Until the regime is satisfied that | 0:29:04 | 0:29:10 | |
the rebel groups holding these areas
have essentially broken down, it | 0:29:10 | 0:29:14 | |
will not lift the siege.
Unfortunately it is not over yet in | 0:29:14 | 0:29:19 | |
eastern Ghouta. If you're looking
and saying there should be used that | 0:29:19 | 0:29:26 | |
the absence of ices should have
given Syrian people hope, shouldn't | 0:29:26 | 0:29:30 | |
it? -- Isis. This is the problem
when only the terrorist angle is | 0:29:30 | 0:29:39 | |
focused upon. The conflict is about
more than terrorism. It is | 0:29:39 | 0:29:44 | |
essentially about a regime that has
been oppressing its people and this | 0:29:44 | 0:29:49 | |
oppression contributed to the rise
of terrorism and other things. So, | 0:29:49 | 0:29:54 | |
Ghouta has nothing to do with Isis.
It has been running parallel to the | 0:29:54 | 0:30:00 | |
Isis problem. In four years of
sieges, Isis only rose since 2013. | 0:30:00 | 0:30:09 | |
Ghouta was under siege since 2013.
When you look back over this period, | 0:30:09 | 0:30:15 | |
what are the strategic points
missed? Should there have been an | 0:30:15 | 0:30:21 | |
intervention on Assad sooner Cuesta
was when Putin came in? What do you | 0:30:21 | 0:30:25 | |
think? At various points, the West
could have done a number of things | 0:30:25 | 0:30:31 | |
it did not do. Very early on there
could have been some form of | 0:30:31 | 0:30:36 | |
diplomatic brokering that did not
happen. Some say the red line drawn | 0:30:36 | 0:30:40 | |
in the sand by President Obama in
2013 when he said the US would | 0:30:40 | 0:30:45 | |
attack whether evidence of use of
chemical weapons in Syria, a lot of | 0:30:45 | 0:30:49 | |
people say that was a mistake will
stop a lot of things could have | 0:30:49 | 0:30:53 | |
happened and did not happen. Thank
you very much indeed for joining us. | 0:30:53 | 0:31:03 | |
From all of us here on Newsnight.
Good night. We | 0:31:03 | 0:31:07 | |
Good night. We will be back on
Monday. | 0:31:07 | 0:31:09 |