Browse content similar to 08/12/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Getting to this point has required
give and take on both sides. | 0:00:14 | 0:00:17 | |
The deal we've struck will guarantee
the rights of more than 3 million EU | 0:00:17 | 0:00:20 | |
citizens living in the UK
and of a million UK | 0:00:20 | 0:00:22 | |
citizens living in the EU. | 0:00:22 | 0:00:28 | |
After some tough conversations,
we've now agreed a settlement that | 0:00:28 | 0:00:31 | |
is fair to the British taxpayer. | 0:00:31 | 0:00:33 | |
It means that in future we'll
be able to invest more | 0:00:33 | 0:00:36 | |
in our priorities at home. | 0:00:36 | 0:00:42 | |
In Northern Ireland,
we will guarantee there will be no | 0:00:42 | 0:00:44 | |
hard border and we will uphold
the Belfast Agreement. | 0:00:44 | 0:00:48 | |
And in doing so, we will continue
to observe the constitutional | 0:00:48 | 0:00:51 | |
and economic integrity
of the United Kingdom. | 0:00:51 | 0:01:00 | |
Theresa pulls it off! | 0:01:01 | 0:01:04 | |
In the early hours of this morning,
the Prime Minister made a dash | 0:01:04 | 0:01:07 | |
to Brussels and sealed a deal
on phase one. | 0:01:07 | 0:01:10 | |
But was there a lot
more give than take? | 0:01:10 | 0:01:12 | |
And has she just parked
the Northern Ireland problem | 0:01:12 | 0:01:14 | |
in the long-stay car park? | 0:01:14 | 0:01:16 | |
We ask one keen Brexiteer. | 0:01:16 | 0:01:20 | |
We've opened up the negotiations
to talk about that future | 0:01:20 | 0:01:22 | |
partnership deal, and the win-win
of that deal on trade and security | 0:01:22 | 0:01:26 | |
cooperation and all those other
things is within sight. | 0:01:26 | 0:01:28 | |
So I think it vindicates
the Prime Minister's approach. | 0:01:28 | 0:01:30 | |
And another... | 0:01:30 | 0:01:32 | |
I listened to Michael Gove and Boris
Johnson today, and thought, | 0:01:32 | 0:01:35 | |
were we on the same side?! | 0:01:35 | 0:01:37 | |
I simply couldn't believe it. | 0:01:37 | 0:01:40 | |
I will say this to you -
I think within the next 48 hours, | 0:01:40 | 0:01:43 | |
you will hear a lot more
Conservative voices who perhaps kept | 0:01:43 | 0:01:46 | |
quiet this morning saying,
actually, they're not happy | 0:01:46 | 0:01:48 | |
with what's happened today. | 0:01:48 | 0:01:49 | |
But does the hard work start here? | 0:01:49 | 0:01:53 | |
The battle lines have been drawn
for phase two, then. | 0:01:53 | 0:01:55 | |
The EU's demand for a level playing
field, and the trend | 0:01:55 | 0:02:00 | |
towards a softer Brexit anyway,
will leave many Brexiteers asking, | 0:02:00 | 0:02:05 | |
what was the point of this? | 0:02:05 | 0:02:10 | |
We'll be discussing with our panel
whether this is all just, | 0:02:10 | 0:02:13 | |
as David Davis says,
"constructive ambiguity", | 0:02:13 | 0:02:16 | |
and does it bode ill or well
for thrashing out a trade deal? | 0:02:16 | 0:02:26 | |
Good evening. | 0:02:30 | 0:02:32 | |
If the Government wanted to inject
some drama and excitement | 0:02:32 | 0:02:34 | |
into the Brexit story,
which some might argue | 0:02:34 | 0:02:36 | |
was badly needed, then
they certainly managed it - | 0:02:36 | 0:02:38 | |
with Theresa May making a pre-dawn
flight from RAF Northolt | 0:02:38 | 0:02:41 | |
across the Channel this morning
with the latest version | 0:02:41 | 0:02:43 | |
of the UK's position. | 0:02:43 | 0:02:46 | |
It would only have been
bettered if she'd actually | 0:02:46 | 0:02:50 | |
piloted the plane herself. | 0:02:50 | 0:02:53 | |
But as to the actual substance? | 0:02:53 | 0:02:54 | |
A deal on EU citizens' rights,
a divorce settlement | 0:02:54 | 0:02:59 | |
of 35-40 billion euros,
a date for the end | 0:02:59 | 0:03:01 | |
of the jurisdiction
of the European Court of Justice, | 0:03:01 | 0:03:03 | |
and a bit of finagling
over Northern Ireland - | 0:03:03 | 0:03:05 | |
but the actual promise
there would not be a hard | 0:03:05 | 0:03:08 | |
border between Northern
Ireland and the Republic. | 0:03:08 | 0:03:09 | |
Enough to get phase one
of the negotiations over the line, | 0:03:09 | 0:03:12 | |
and, assuming it gets the nod
from the European Council next week, | 0:03:12 | 0:03:15 | |
to start talks about a trade
agreement, rested and refreshed. | 0:03:15 | 0:03:17 | |
Here's our Political
Editor, Nick Watt. | 0:03:17 | 0:03:22 | |
MUSIC. | 0:03:22 | 0:03:31 | |
When everyone else is having fun,
breaking up can be so hard, | 0:03:31 | 0:03:36 | |
as Theresa May discovered at an EU
summit last year. | 0:03:36 | 0:03:41 | |
Or maybe we do have
friends after all? | 0:03:41 | 0:03:46 | |
At the end of a week of heartache,
Theresa May finally pulled off | 0:03:46 | 0:03:49 | |
a deal with the EU on stage one
of the Brexit negotiations. | 0:03:49 | 0:03:53 | |
Sufficient progress has now been
made on the three terms | 0:03:53 | 0:03:56 | |
of the divorce. | 0:03:56 | 0:04:00 | |
I very much welcome the prospect
of moving ahead to the | 0:04:00 | 0:04:04 | |
next phase, to talk about trade
and security, and to discuss the | 0:04:04 | 0:04:07 | |
positive and ambitious
future relationship. | 0:04:07 | 0:04:10 | |
But after Monday's humiliation,
how did it happen? | 0:04:10 | 0:04:15 | |
Shortly after 11pm in Downing Street
last night, Theresa May finally | 0:04:15 | 0:04:25 | |
achieved a breakthrough when she
sort of won over the DUP in a | 0:04:26 | 0:04:29 | |
telephone call with Arlene Foster. | 0:04:29 | 0:04:30 | |
At around midnight, she left
Downing Street, skipping the office | 0:04:30 | 0:04:34 | |
Christmas party, to catch two hours
sleep at her constituency | 0:04:34 | 0:04:36 | |
home in Maidenhead. | 0:04:36 | 0:04:38 | |
Then, at 3:45am, she was picked up
for an RAF flight to | 0:04:38 | 0:04:40 | |
Brussels. | 0:04:40 | 0:04:41 | |
The deal covered the three
main separation areas. | 0:04:41 | 0:04:45 | |
Theresa May has resisted pressure
to keep Northern Ireland in the EU's | 0:04:45 | 0:04:48 | |
Single Market and Customs Union. | 0:04:48 | 0:04:50 | |
But the EU has secured
an alignment of roles in | 0:04:50 | 0:04:56 | |
areas related to cross-border
cooperation in the event of no deal. | 0:04:56 | 0:05:02 | |
The UK cut an initial EU demand
for a Brexit payment of up to £65 | 0:05:02 | 0:05:06 | |
billion by around a half. | 0:05:06 | 0:05:08 | |
But the UK will still pay
between 36 and £39 million. | 0:05:08 | 0:05:14 | |
European Court of Justice
will have a limited role, overseeing | 0:05:14 | 0:05:20 | |
the rights of EU citizens the UK
for eight years rather than 15. | 0:05:20 | 0:05:24 | |
But EU citizens lawfully
resident in the UK | 0:05:24 | 0:05:33 | |
on Brexit day will have
the rights guaranteed. | 0:05:34 | 0:05:37 | |
We've heard a lot about the Tory
civil war and Europe. | 0:05:37 | 0:05:39 | |
Well, today, the tribe
appeared to embrace | 0:05:39 | 0:05:41 | |
the spirit of Christmas goodwill. | 0:05:41 | 0:05:42 | |
This agreement is a significant
political achievement | 0:05:42 | 0:05:44 | |
for the Prime Minister. | 0:05:44 | 0:05:45 | |
Theresa May has absolutely
put her mark on this. | 0:05:45 | 0:05:48 | |
She has stood up and she has not
been found to be wanting. | 0:05:48 | 0:05:55 | |
Others weren't quite
buying into the accord. | 0:05:55 | 0:05:57 | |
I listened to Michael
Gove and Boris Johnson | 0:05:57 | 0:05:59 | |
today and thought,
are we on the same side?! | 0:05:59 | 0:06:01 | |
I simply couldn't believe it. | 0:06:01 | 0:06:11 | |
I will say this to you,
I think within the next 48 hours we | 0:06:15 | 0:06:19 | |
will hear a lot more
Conservative voices | 0:06:19 | 0:06:20 | |
who perhaps kept quiet
this | 0:06:20 | 0:06:21 | |
morning saying, actually,
they're not happy with | 0:06:21 | 0:06:23 | |
what's happened today. | 0:06:23 | 0:06:24 | |
At the heart of this deal lies
a Cabinet truce on Brexit. | 0:06:24 | 0:06:27 | |
The Leave side are so concerned to
preserve the actual goal of leaving | 0:06:27 | 0:06:30 | |
that they are willing to give
ground on the details. | 0:06:30 | 0:06:33 | |
The Remain side have accepted
the UK is leaving, but | 0:06:33 | 0:06:35 | |
they've been pushing
for a gentle Brexit. | 0:06:35 | 0:06:37 | |
The Prime Minister's challenge
is to preserve that truce | 0:06:37 | 0:06:39 | |
going into the next
round of negotiations. | 0:06:39 | 0:06:41 | |
One minister who supported
Remain hopes the UK will | 0:06:41 | 0:06:43 | |
hug the EU close. | 0:06:43 | 0:06:44 | |
This talk of ongoing
alignment, I think there | 0:06:44 | 0:06:48 | |
will be some key strategic sectors,
looking at the financial services - | 0:06:48 | 0:06:52 | |
it applies to professional services,
biotech, life sciences, a number of | 0:06:52 | 0:06:56 | |
sectors like that were actually
a fragmentation of the European | 0:06:56 | 0:07:01 | |
offering in global terms
would be bad news not just | 0:07:01 | 0:07:04 | |
for us, but the EU 27. | 0:07:04 | 0:07:06 | |
I think in those sort
of areas I suspect that | 0:07:06 | 0:07:10 | |
in the years to come
we will want to mirror | 0:07:10 | 0:07:12 | |
many of the regulations
and directives that | 0:07:12 | 0:07:14 | |
come out of Europe. | 0:07:14 | 0:07:17 | |
But, the overwhelming bits
of the economy, both in goods | 0:07:17 | 0:07:19 | |
and services, I think we may well
want to move ahead positively with | 0:07:19 | 0:07:23 | |
free trade deals as
quickly as possible. | 0:07:23 | 0:07:24 | |
Labour believes this has been a less
than glorious week for | 0:07:24 | 0:07:27 | |
the Government. | 0:07:27 | 0:07:30 | |
Look, Theresa May should have hit
the first deadline in October. | 0:07:30 | 0:07:32 | |
She failed. | 0:07:32 | 0:07:33 | |
She looks as if she's
going to hit this deadline. | 0:07:33 | 0:07:39 | |
That is progress, it
would be churlish of me not | 0:07:39 | 0:07:41 | |
to recognise it as progress. | 0:07:41 | 0:07:42 | |
But what we can't have
going forward is the absolutely | 0:07:42 | 0:07:45 | |
chaotic scenes that
we've seen this week. | 0:07:45 | 0:07:48 | |
But in Whitehall, they
are likening the deal | 0:07:48 | 0:07:50 | |
to Churchill and El Alamein. | 0:07:50 | 0:07:51 | |
The word is, it is the end
of the beginning. | 0:07:51 | 0:08:00 | |
Nick's with me now. | 0:08:00 | 0:08:01 | |
Nick, what's the mood
in Downing Street tonight? | 0:08:01 | 0:08:08 | |
It is absolute delight. I think it
is stunned relief. We have done it | 0:08:08 | 0:08:13 | |
and this Prime Minister has at last
achieved success. When the Prime | 0:08:13 | 0:08:18 | |
Minister left for Brussels, she did
not know how this was going to go | 0:08:18 | 0:08:22 | |
down politically with her back
benches and with the DUP. Arlene | 0:08:22 | 0:08:27 | |
Foster had not wholly signed up to
this. But talking to the Brexiteers | 0:08:27 | 0:08:31 | |
who have been critical of this deal,
they said this evening they are not | 0:08:31 | 0:08:35 | |
planning to rock the boat. But they
do have what is described as, | 0:08:35 | 0:08:41 | |
residual anxieties in two areas.
One, these very limited | 0:08:41 | 0:08:47 | |
circumstances the Supreme Court will
refer to the European Court of | 0:08:47 | 0:08:51 | |
Justice over citizens and this
regulatory alignment is related to | 0:08:51 | 0:08:56 | |
Northern Ireland. Whatever that
proves to be. What happens now? Adam | 0:08:56 | 0:09:01 | |
Fleming in Brussels has got a leak
of the draft conclusions for the | 0:09:01 | 0:09:08 | |
European Council meeting in Brussels
on Thursday and Friday. Good news | 0:09:08 | 0:09:12 | |
and bad news. The good news is the
European Council is suggesting yes | 0:09:12 | 0:09:17 | |
to a transition deal for two years.
The bad news is the entire body of | 0:09:17 | 0:09:23 | |
EU law would apply to the UK in that
period and any new laws and | 0:09:23 | 0:09:27 | |
regulations introduced in that
period would apply to the UK, which | 0:09:27 | 0:09:31 | |
would have no votes. That crosses
one Boris Johnson's red lines, which | 0:09:31 | 0:09:37 | |
might explain why the Chief Whip
sent out a photo of him two-day | 0:09:37 | 0:09:42 | |
meeting the Prime Minister in the
early hours because the Prime | 0:09:42 | 0:09:45 | |
Minister will have a cabinet meeting
and discussion on the future. Thank | 0:09:45 | 0:09:50 | |
you very much indeed. | 0:09:50 | 0:09:53 | |
Well, Government ministers today
were so pleased with the outcome, | 0:09:53 | 0:09:55 | |
and the lack of incoming -
so far - from the right | 0:09:55 | 0:09:58 | |
of the party, it was
as if Christmas had come early. | 0:09:58 | 0:10:00 | |
Certainly the Justice Minister,
Dominic Raab, was in a chipper | 0:10:00 | 0:10:03 | |
mood when I spoke to him
earlier at Westminister. | 0:10:03 | 0:10:05 | |
I asked him whether today's deal
was proof the Government had | 0:10:05 | 0:10:08 | |
caved to EU demands. | 0:10:08 | 0:10:09 | |
We are a third of the way
through a two-year negotiation | 0:10:09 | 0:10:11 | |
period, and today was a really
important step forward - | 0:10:11 | 0:10:14 | |
on EU nationals and their rights
here in the UK, expats. | 0:10:14 | 0:10:16 | |
We've opened the door to trade
talks, very important | 0:10:16 | 0:10:18 | |
for business confidence. | 0:10:18 | 0:10:20 | |
We've narrowed the bones
of contention, but not | 0:10:20 | 0:10:22 | |
settled all the issues
on Northern Ireland and money. | 0:10:22 | 0:10:24 | |
So, yes, there is... | 0:10:24 | 0:10:25 | |
You haven't settled any
of the issues on Northern Ireland | 0:10:25 | 0:10:27 | |
except there will be no hard border. | 0:10:27 | 0:10:29 | |
Well, a very important
issue to settle. | 0:10:29 | 0:10:30 | |
But you're right. | 0:10:30 | 0:10:31 | |
There's going to be
some hard yards left. | 0:10:31 | 0:10:33 | |
It's going to go
down to brass tacks. | 0:10:33 | 0:10:35 | |
But we're only a third of the way
through the negotiations. | 0:10:35 | 0:10:38 | |
And as a result of taking this step,
we've opened up the negotiations | 0:10:38 | 0:10:41 | |
to talk about that future
partnership deal and the win-win | 0:10:41 | 0:10:44 | |
of that deal on trade and security
cooperation and all of those other | 0:10:44 | 0:10:47 | |
things is within sight. | 0:10:47 | 0:10:48 | |
So I think it indicates
the Prime Minister's approach. | 0:10:48 | 0:10:52 | |
Full alignment is essentially part
of the Single Market, | 0:10:52 | 0:10:55 | |
beside the Single Market,
beside the Customs Union on these | 0:10:55 | 0:10:57 | |
issues - agriculture,
education, transport, | 0:10:57 | 0:10:58 | |
environment, waterways,
Social Security, tourism, | 0:10:58 | 0:11:01 | |
inland fisheries, health,
urban and rural development... | 0:11:01 | 0:11:05 | |
You have no power on
these going forward. | 0:11:05 | 0:11:11 | |
You will be takers, not rule-makers. | 0:11:11 | 0:11:14 | |
The EU will keep you in-line
in all these things. | 0:11:14 | 0:11:17 | |
Kirsty, Kirsty, you can't
have it both ways. | 0:11:17 | 0:11:19 | |
You can't say we've done nothing
on Northern Ireland and then say | 0:11:19 | 0:11:21 | |
we've given all the game away. | 0:11:21 | 0:11:24 | |
The reality is, what we've said
today on alignment is the default | 0:11:24 | 0:11:27 | |
position if none of the options
are agreed but we still want | 0:11:27 | 0:11:30 | |
and have a package within sight
is that we would have alignment. | 0:11:30 | 0:11:33 | |
And what alignment means
is on the principles, | 0:11:33 | 0:11:35 | |
the goals, the policy goals... | 0:11:35 | 0:11:36 | |
For example, if it was on a certain
area like, I don't know, | 0:11:36 | 0:11:40 | |
agricultural standards,
but you retain the regulatory means | 0:11:40 | 0:11:42 | |
to delivering them at home. | 0:11:42 | 0:11:45 | |
Let's just take agriculture. | 0:11:45 | 0:11:48 | |
And there will be a European law
on the movement of animals that | 0:11:48 | 0:11:54 | |
you will have to adhere
to if there is full alignment. | 0:11:54 | 0:11:58 | |
Indeed, if there are new laws
designed by the 27 on the movement | 0:11:58 | 0:12:02 | |
of animals, you will have to adhere
to them on full alignment. | 0:12:02 | 0:12:06 | |
No, you're wrong on both counts. | 0:12:06 | 0:12:09 | |
This is the default position
on those areas of North-South | 0:12:09 | 0:12:13 | |
cooperation in the context
of Northern Ireland if nothing | 0:12:13 | 0:12:15 | |
else can be agreed. | 0:12:15 | 0:12:18 | |
But we want to proceed
with the whole package. | 0:12:18 | 0:12:20 | |
The detail, the options
are still to be chosen. | 0:12:20 | 0:12:22 | |
This is all still a matter
for negotiations. | 0:12:22 | 0:12:24 | |
You can call it strategic
ambiguity, you can call it | 0:12:24 | 0:12:27 | |
constructive ambiguity... | 0:12:27 | 0:12:28 | |
You can call it that. | 0:12:28 | 0:12:29 | |
That's very interesting, you're
calling it strategic ambiguity?! | 0:12:29 | 0:12:31 | |
No, what I'm admitting to you,
very openly and honestly, | 0:12:31 | 0:12:34 | |
is that we've agreed principles
but the details still need to be | 0:12:34 | 0:12:37 | |
ironed out on this very bespoke set
of issues around Northern Ireland, | 0:12:37 | 0:12:40 | |
which can't be dealt with properly
and responsibly outside | 0:12:40 | 0:12:43 | |
of the context of the broader
negotiation on customs and trade | 0:12:43 | 0:12:46 | |
and all those other things
which we've said all along. | 0:12:46 | 0:12:49 | |
If you don't get an acceptable deal
on Northern Ireland, full alignment | 0:12:49 | 0:12:53 | |
could continue forever. | 0:12:53 | 0:12:59 | |
Well, Kirsty, ifs and buts
and pots and pans. | 0:12:59 | 0:13:01 | |
What I can tell you now is that
we've got what we wanted, | 0:13:01 | 0:13:05 | |
which was to move forward to talk
about trade talks. | 0:13:05 | 0:13:07 | |
We've settled the issue of EU
nationals and UK nationals, and, | 0:13:07 | 0:13:10 | |
you know, we can open up to those
trade talks which we said should | 0:13:10 | 0:13:13 | |
have happened at the beginning. | 0:13:13 | 0:13:14 | |
Nicola Sturgeon said in a tweet
today that the UK Government | 0:13:14 | 0:13:17 | |
promising that there will be no hard
border in Northern Ireland means | 0:13:17 | 0:13:20 | |
that the Government can never again
say that an independent Scotland | 0:13:20 | 0:13:24 | |
will mean a hard border. | 0:13:24 | 0:13:26 | |
She's right, isn't she? | 0:13:26 | 0:13:28 | |
No, she's not, but I would of course
expect the SNP to view | 0:13:28 | 0:13:31 | |
anything within the prism
of their obsession | 0:13:31 | 0:13:33 | |
with independents. | 0:13:33 | 0:13:40 | |
with independence. | 0:13:40 | 0:13:41 | |
I'm sure that's not the way
the Scottish people think of it. | 0:13:41 | 0:13:44 | |
One last try on full alignment. | 0:13:44 | 0:13:45 | |
Go for it. | 0:13:45 | 0:13:46 | |
You're in the transition period,
you don't have a deal | 0:13:46 | 0:13:49 | |
on Northern Ireland,
and the EU proposes a new law | 0:13:49 | 0:13:51 | |
on agriculture you don't like. | 0:13:51 | 0:13:52 | |
You have to adhere to
the principle of it? | 0:13:52 | 0:13:54 | |
No, we don't. | 0:13:54 | 0:13:55 | |
I'm sorry, that is not
what we've agreed today. | 0:13:55 | 0:13:58 | |
What we've agreed, as a default
position, I'll go over | 0:13:58 | 0:14:00 | |
it again if you like,
is that if nothing else is agreed | 0:14:00 | 0:14:03 | |
and we're confident that we can,
then actually what we would have | 0:14:03 | 0:14:06 | |
is some form of alignment which
means that we agree the policy... | 0:14:06 | 0:14:09 | |
Full alignment is not
some form of alignment! | 0:14:09 | 0:14:11 | |
The alignment is in relation
to the goals you retain | 0:14:11 | 0:14:13 | |
the regulatory means of achieving. | 0:14:13 | 0:14:14 | |
We're now entering phase two. | 0:14:14 | 0:14:18 | |
And in phase two, the draft EU
Council guidelines say that in phase | 0:14:18 | 0:14:21 | |
two what will be decided is that
during the transition | 0:14:21 | 0:14:24 | |
period there will be four
freedoms guaranteed, | 0:14:24 | 0:14:27 | |
and Britain will still be
in the Single Market | 0:14:27 | 0:14:29 | |
and the Customs Union. | 0:14:29 | 0:14:30 | |
Theresa May on the 9th of October
said that in March 2019 | 0:14:30 | 0:14:33 | |
when we enter transition,
the four freedoms will end, | 0:14:33 | 0:14:36 | |
and we will not be in
the Single Market and we will not be | 0:14:36 | 0:14:39 | |
in the Customs Union. | 0:14:39 | 0:14:40 | |
These are diametrically
opposed statements. | 0:14:40 | 0:14:42 | |
That is the EU's negotiation
position for phase two. | 0:14:42 | 0:14:45 | |
Well, that's going
to be a very big row. | 0:14:45 | 0:14:47 | |
It is, but we've always said,
let's get on and talk | 0:14:47 | 0:14:50 | |
about trade and the transition. | 0:14:50 | 0:14:51 | |
We can't talk about the transition
until we're in those trade talks. | 0:14:51 | 0:14:54 | |
And I'm delighted that the EU
is now restless to get | 0:14:54 | 0:14:57 | |
on and talk about that too. | 0:14:57 | 0:14:58 | |
But of course, as you've just
pointed out, there's | 0:14:58 | 0:15:00 | |
going to be some creases that
will need ironing out. | 0:15:00 | 0:15:03 | |
We're only a third of the way
through these negotiations. | 0:15:03 | 0:15:05 | |
But it's a major... | 0:15:05 | 0:15:06 | |
At least recognise... | 0:15:06 | 0:15:07 | |
Come on, Kirsty! | 0:15:07 | 0:15:08 | |
But it's a major, major crease. | 0:15:08 | 0:15:10 | |
Against all the pessimism, we made
a really important step forward. | 0:15:10 | 0:15:12 | |
It's a major crease. | 0:15:12 | 0:15:13 | |
Go on, give us that! | 0:15:13 | 0:15:23 | |
Theresa May did not say on the 9th
of October, "On March 2019, | 0:15:23 | 0:15:26 | |
I kind of hope that I'll be
in a position when I enter | 0:15:26 | 0:15:30 | |
the transition that actually I might
be able to end the four freedoms | 0:15:30 | 0:15:33 | |
and I might be able to get
the Single Market and I might be | 0:15:33 | 0:15:36 | |
able to get the Customs Union". | 0:15:36 | 0:15:37 | |
She said on the 9th of October,
these things will happen. | 0:15:37 | 0:15:40 | |
These are not entirely in her gift. | 0:15:40 | 0:15:42 | |
So, first of all, you started
by saying that EU communication | 0:15:42 | 0:15:44 | |
was what we've agreed
for the transition - | 0:15:44 | 0:15:46 | |
it isn't, it's the position. | 0:15:46 | 0:15:48 | |
it isn't, it's their position. | 0:15:48 | 0:15:49 | |
But you're absolutely right,
it's not entirely within our gift | 0:15:49 | 0:15:51 | |
what we negotiate in phase two. | 0:15:51 | 0:15:53 | |
We're not there yet. | 0:15:53 | 0:15:53 | |
I wouldn't want to get the
tambourine out quite yet, Kirsty. | 0:15:53 | 0:15:56 | |
But we're a third of the way
through the negotiations, | 0:15:56 | 0:15:59 | |
and today was a step forward
and an indication of the approach | 0:15:59 | 0:16:02 | |
that the PM has taken. | 0:16:02 | 0:16:03 | |
"Nothing is agreed until
everything is agreed". | 0:16:03 | 0:16:05 | |
The phrase at the top of the joint
EU-UK document today that | 0:16:05 | 0:16:08 | |
if phase two founders -
if no trade deal can be struck - | 0:16:08 | 0:16:11 | |
then potentially what's been decided
today could be dumped in the bin. | 0:16:11 | 0:16:14 | |
So, the stakes are very high. | 0:16:14 | 0:16:15 | |
As Dominic Raab said, he hasn't got
the tambourine out yet. | 0:16:15 | 0:16:18 | |
Our Diplomatic Editor,
Mark Urban, guides us | 0:16:18 | 0:16:19 | |
through the next round of chess. | 0:16:19 | 0:16:21 | |
There can be no turning back. | 0:16:21 | 0:16:22 | |
Britain is leaving
the European Union. | 0:16:22 | 0:16:24 | |
From the outset, the EU wanted
to direct this movie. | 0:16:24 | 0:16:27 | |
Its script, one of phased
negotiations starting | 0:16:27 | 0:16:31 | |
with the three separation issues -
citizens' rights, budget liabilities | 0:16:31 | 0:16:34 | |
and the Irish border. | 0:16:34 | 0:16:37 | |
There never really was any chance
of the UK picking off member | 0:16:37 | 0:16:40 | |
states on these questions. | 0:16:40 | 0:16:43 | |
Their position was solid. | 0:16:43 | 0:16:46 | |
It has been interesting how
effective the EU has been in keeping | 0:16:46 | 0:16:50 | |
the 27 together on the three major
issues of the first phase. | 0:16:50 | 0:16:57 | |
And they had a clear idea
of what they needed the UK to do | 0:16:57 | 0:17:01 | |
in that first phase. | 0:17:01 | 0:17:04 | |
And actually, step-by-step,
the UK has fallen in line | 0:17:04 | 0:17:07 | |
with that approach. | 0:17:07 | 0:17:12 | |
Among the 27, the narrative played
to us again and again was that | 0:17:12 | 0:17:16 | |
Theresa May was negotiating first
and foremost with her own Cabinet. | 0:17:16 | 0:17:21 | |
But for veterans of
the European Commission, | 0:17:21 | 0:17:25 | |
every big negotiation involves both
sides arguing among themselves. | 0:17:25 | 0:17:28 | |
It's not strange if you look
at the bigger picture | 0:17:28 | 0:17:34 | |
of the trade negotiations. | 0:17:34 | 0:17:36 | |
I mean, the European Union
is losing time, but also our | 0:17:36 | 0:17:39 | |
counterparts are losing time. | 0:17:39 | 0:17:40 | |
For example, the reason that TTIP
stalled was because the American | 0:17:40 | 0:17:43 | |
side could not come
to a common position. | 0:17:43 | 0:17:45 | |
So that's not so extraordinary. | 0:17:45 | 0:17:48 | |
Number Ten had hoped
today's milestone would be | 0:17:48 | 0:17:51 | |
reached back in October,
after Theresa May's | 0:17:51 | 0:17:52 | |
offer in Florence. | 0:17:52 | 0:17:55 | |
But the EU held firm. | 0:17:55 | 0:17:58 | |
Downing Street blamed
October's failure on French | 0:17:58 | 0:18:00 | |
and German intransigence. | 0:18:00 | 0:18:04 | |
But it may have helped
educate the Brexit | 0:18:04 | 0:18:07 | |
hardliners in the Cabinet. | 0:18:07 | 0:18:10 | |
And in the aftermath of that
setback, Theresa May | 0:18:10 | 0:18:18 | |
leveraged her weakness,
leading Europeans have | 0:18:18 | 0:18:22 | |
told me, telling them -
"if you don't give me something | 0:18:22 | 0:18:25 | |
here, you're going to end up talking
to Boris Johnson". | 0:18:25 | 0:18:27 | |
The Prime Minister has always
known that the leverage | 0:18:27 | 0:18:29 | |
would be distinctly limited,
and talks might take the form | 0:18:29 | 0:18:32 | |
of a fighting withdrawal. | 0:18:32 | 0:18:33 | |
How do we know? | 0:18:33 | 0:18:34 | |
Because she said it before
she became Prime Minister. | 0:18:34 | 0:18:38 | |
In a stand-off between Britain
and the EU, 44% of our exports | 0:18:38 | 0:18:42 | |
is more important to us than 8%
of the EU's exports is to them. | 0:18:42 | 0:18:49 | |
The reality is that we do not know
on what terms we would have access | 0:18:49 | 0:18:52 | |
to the Single Market. | 0:18:52 | 0:18:56 | |
We do know that in a negotiation,
we would need to make concessions | 0:18:56 | 0:18:59 | |
in order to access it. | 0:18:59 | 0:19:03 | |
And the UK has indeed been
making many concessions. | 0:19:03 | 0:19:06 | |
Among them, agreeing to the EU's
negotiating that it will pay | 0:19:06 | 0:19:11 | |
substantial budget liabilities,
and accepting it cannot start | 0:19:11 | 0:19:13 | |
negotiating its own trade
agreements any time soon. | 0:19:13 | 0:19:23 | |
But on citizens' rights
and even the budget issue, | 0:19:23 | 0:19:28 | |
the EU has given ground also. | 0:19:28 | 0:19:30 | |
So, what about the phase two
negotiation, setting out the broad | 0:19:30 | 0:19:33 | |
framework for trade,
security and so much else? | 0:19:33 | 0:19:37 | |
The EU suggests that must be
a choice between Single Market | 0:19:37 | 0:19:39 | |
membership like Norway,
or a trade deal like | 0:19:39 | 0:19:46 | |
the one done by Canada. | 0:19:46 | 0:19:47 | |
Theresa May, it's clear,
wants something much closer | 0:19:47 | 0:19:49 | |
than that Canadian deal. | 0:19:49 | 0:19:51 | |
Compared with what exists
between Britain and the EU today, | 0:19:51 | 0:19:56 | |
it would nevertheless represent such
a restriction on our mutual market | 0:19:56 | 0:20:00 | |
access that it would benefit
neither of our economies. | 0:20:00 | 0:20:04 | |
Not only that, it would start
from the false premise | 0:20:04 | 0:20:07 | |
that there is no pre-existing
regulatory relationship between us, | 0:20:07 | 0:20:11 | |
and precedent suggests that it
could take years to negotiate. | 0:20:11 | 0:20:14 | |
We can do so much better than this. | 0:20:14 | 0:20:19 | |
And that expression
of Prime Ministerial aspiration, | 0:20:19 | 0:20:24 | |
coupled with the concept
of regulatory alignment to deal | 0:20:24 | 0:20:26 | |
with the Irish border,
tell us a great deal. | 0:20:26 | 0:20:29 | |
It suggests changing as little
as possible, a softer Brexit. | 0:20:29 | 0:20:35 | |
If it was a forerunner of a decision
that the whole of the UK would stay | 0:20:35 | 0:20:40 | |
in regulatory alignment with the EU,
in other words, in the Single | 0:20:40 | 0:20:49 | |
in the Single Market,
in the Customs Union, | 0:20:49 | 0:20:51 | |
or very close to them, | 0:20:51 | 0:20:52 | |
then that's a very significant
policy statement, and one | 0:20:52 | 0:20:55 | |
that we haven't had before. | 0:20:55 | 0:20:56 | |
And of course, it would make a lot
of other things easier. | 0:20:56 | 0:20:59 | |
As for the EU side, it seems to have
glimpsed the direction of travel | 0:20:59 | 0:21:02 | |
and is already signalling
they are closely aligned. | 0:21:02 | 0:21:09 | |
The UK must abandon the vision
of some Brexiteers for a | 0:21:09 | 0:21:11 | |
Singapore-style deregulated economy. | 0:21:11 | 0:21:12 | |
The battle lines have been drawn
for phase two, then. | 0:21:12 | 0:21:15 | |
The EU's demand for a level playing
field, and the trend | 0:21:15 | 0:21:18 | |
towards a softer Brexit anyway,
will leave many Brexiteers asking, | 0:21:18 | 0:21:25 | |
what was the point of this? | 0:21:25 | 0:21:28 | |
Critically, the UK will have
to carve out some sort of exemptions | 0:21:28 | 0:21:33 | |
to allow them to restrict freedom
of movement and sufficient latitude | 0:21:33 | 0:21:36 | |
to create their own trade deals. | 0:21:36 | 0:21:44 | |
If you look at the mandate
for the second round negotiating | 0:21:44 | 0:21:52 | |
of our trade deal, there is a clause
in it on the level playing fields, | 0:21:52 | 0:21:56 | |
and that's the first
time ever that this | 0:21:56 | 0:21:59 | |
is in a negotiating mandate. | 0:21:59 | 0:22:01 | |
What it means is that they say,
look, you can have the trading deal | 0:22:01 | 0:22:06 | |
with Europe provided that
you are not dumping, | 0:22:06 | 0:22:08 | |
that you live up to
the competition rules, etc, etc. | 0:22:08 | 0:22:12 | |
The level playing field
for the first time has been defined. | 0:22:12 | 0:22:19 | |
That will demonstrate to be a very
hard one for Great Britain. | 0:22:19 | 0:22:22 | |
The clock starts now on a phase
two negotiation that | 0:22:22 | 0:22:25 | |
will test both sides. | 0:22:25 | 0:22:28 | |
It's clear now that the UK
will align closely with the EU, | 0:22:28 | 0:22:31 | |
and that could make it far harder
for the Brexit the vision | 0:22:31 | 0:22:36 | |
of a freewheeling trading
superpower to be fulfilled. | 0:22:36 | 0:22:46 | |
-- for the Brexiteer vision. | 0:22:46 | 0:22:48 | |
Mark Urban there. | 0:22:48 | 0:22:49 | |
And to discuss this further now I'm
joined by Dia Chakravarty, | 0:22:49 | 0:22:52 | |
the Brexit Editor for The Daily
Telegraph. | 0:22:52 | 0:22:53 | |
Jonathan Freedland of The Guardian. | 0:22:53 | 0:22:54 | |
LBC presenter Iain Dale. | 0:22:54 | 0:22:56 | |
And Stephanie Bolzen
the London Correspondent, | 0:22:56 | 0:22:57 | |
for the German newspaper Die Welt. | 0:22:57 | 0:22:59 | |
And, before we actually say hello to
you, let's have a look at the front | 0:22:59 | 0:23:04 | |
pages, starting with the Mail.
Rejoice! We are on our way. The | 0:23:04 | 0:23:10 | |
price of freedom, the Daily
Telegraph goes on to list all of the | 0:23:10 | 0:23:14 | |
cost of the deal so far. And on to
the Guardian. The deal is done, the | 0:23:14 | 0:23:20 | |
EU warns of more delays. Stephanie,
we don't have Die Welt, but what's | 0:23:20 | 0:23:25 | |
it saying tomorrow morning? Headline
is a bit similar to the Guardian, | 0:23:25 | 0:23:29 | |
saying, happy Britain, but Europe
remained sceptical. The comment on | 0:23:29 | 0:23:34 | |
page one also says, well, there is
maybe a bit of light at the end of | 0:23:34 | 0:23:38 | |
the tunnel. The pragmatism that we
are used to buy the Brits, the | 0:23:38 | 0:23:42 | |
smart, magmatic Brits, it has
returned maybe a little bit, but | 0:23:42 | 0:23:46 | |
watch this space. That smart
pragmatism, interestingly, Dia, do | 0:23:46 | 0:23:51 | |
you think Theresa May, she is a much
stronger figure now than she was 24 | 0:23:51 | 0:23:55 | |
hours? Definitely, but you have to
see where she was coming from. On | 0:23:55 | 0:24:00 | |
Monday, things were looking pretty
bad. It felt that she was trying to | 0:24:00 | 0:24:06 | |
unite the country and bring the
Remainer and Brexiteer colleagues | 0:24:06 | 0:24:10 | |
together, and taking both the lot
together. Today than when she | 0:24:10 | 0:24:14 | |
actually managed to make some sort
of a progression in the process, it | 0:24:14 | 0:24:18 | |
looks very good for her. Certainly
it has bought her some time if | 0:24:18 | 0:24:22 | |
nothing else. So far she seems to be
in command of her Cabinet if nothing | 0:24:22 | 0:24:26 | |
else. She was working from a very
low base, she couldn't have been | 0:24:26 | 0:24:30 | |
weaker than two was, but to have got
through a deal and got over this | 0:24:30 | 0:24:34 | |
hurdle makes her stronger. Before
that, her job was hanging by a | 0:24:34 | 0:24:42 | |
thread on the basis of where she was
on Monday. Iain Dale, what do you | 0:24:42 | 0:24:45 | |
make of the idea in Mark's fill that
the Europeans were saying that what | 0:24:45 | 0:24:48 | |
she was saying to Junker and the
others, leveraging her weakness, if | 0:24:48 | 0:24:51 | |
you don't deal with her you will
have two end up dealing with Boris | 0:24:51 | 0:24:54 | |
Johnson? Jean-Claude Junker was
quite anxious that her government | 0:24:54 | 0:24:57 | |
might fall. This time yesterday, a
lot of us would have thought that | 0:24:57 | 0:25:01 | |
was quite near, but it is remarkable
what a difference 24 hours makes. | 0:25:01 | 0:25:06 | |
She is certainly in a very strong
position. It was a diplomatic | 0:25:06 | 0:25:09 | |
triumph of a Prime Minister. As Dia
says, to have got from Monday to | 0:25:09 | 0:25:22 | |
hear, got the DUP and the Irish
government on site, and I also | 0:25:22 | 0:25:25 | |
think, and something that I haven't
heard it said, I think a lot of EU | 0:25:25 | 0:25:28 | |
governments were putting pressure on
the European Commission saying, come | 0:25:28 | 0:25:30 | |
on, do this deal. Wonder from a
German perspective if you think | 0:25:30 | 0:25:32 | |
that's correct, that individual
governments were saying to Junker, | 0:25:32 | 0:25:34 | |
look, is off, do this more
diplomatically, we have to get a | 0:25:34 | 0:25:38 | |
deal. Junker was taking an
incredibly negative attitude prior | 0:25:38 | 0:25:41 | |
to this week. Yes, that might be the
case. But if you think back, | 0:25:41 | 0:25:45 | |
especially talking about the money,
it was the French and Germans that | 0:25:45 | 0:25:48 | |
were far more strict on this than
the commission was, actually. We | 0:25:48 | 0:25:52 | |
will see who was this. What is clear
is that of course as we leave, | 0:25:52 | 0:26:04 | |
especially in Berlin, there is
enough things in Europe happening. | 0:26:04 | 0:26:06 | |
So let's sort this out. I think
that's exactly right, once the money | 0:26:06 | 0:26:09 | |
is sorted out, the position in Paris
and Berlin shifted to, we just want | 0:26:09 | 0:26:12 | |
this now dealt with. They have a
huge agenda in Europe that they want | 0:26:12 | 0:26:15 | |
to get on with, including closer
integration and defence. Having the | 0:26:15 | 0:26:17 | |
Brexit had a crumbling bun, they
just wanted it over. It helps by the | 0:26:17 | 0:26:21 | |
way of the other side, in this case
Britain, as more or less conceded in | 0:26:21 | 0:26:25 | |
all of the key demands. Who do you
think came out of that on this, | 0:26:25 | 0:26:30 | |
Europe or Theresa May? Obviously
Europe did, they've got the money | 0:26:30 | 0:26:40 | |
that they wanted. No, they haven't.
This is where all of the pundits | 0:26:40 | 0:26:42 | |
said, it's going to be 60 billion or
100 billion. It's not, it's | 0:26:42 | 0:26:45 | |
35-39,000,000,000. Boris Johnson was
one of the ones talking... He said | 0:26:45 | 0:26:49 | |
they can go whistle if it is
exorbitant. And David Davis said it | 0:26:49 | 0:26:55 | |
was nonsense and other going to
happen. We can argue that 35 billion | 0:26:55 | 0:26:59 | |
is exorbitant, but it is a long way
from 60. You talk about the French | 0:26:59 | 0:27:03 | |
and Germans wanted to get their
money. But on the principle of | 0:27:03 | 0:27:07 | |
Ireland they had to say strong on no
solid border. Do you think it was | 0:27:07 | 0:27:11 | |
better that she pulled this off at
the last minute, or... What Arlene | 0:27:11 | 0:27:16 | |
Foster was saying today, time ran
out. As in, we're not very happy | 0:27:16 | 0:27:20 | |
about this. She blinked. Who do you
think blinked, Iain, sorry? Arlene | 0:27:20 | 0:27:25 | |
Foster, clearly. It's probably not a
popular idea on this panel, but it | 0:27:25 | 0:27:32 | |
seems to me a bit like the EU
blinked as well. On Monday, when | 0:27:32 | 0:27:36 | |
Theresa May said, this is not going
to happen, the EU could have said, | 0:27:36 | 0:27:39 | |
right, see you next year then. They
didn't, something did happen there, | 0:27:39 | 0:27:43 | |
they did come back to talk with her
again and they worked something out. | 0:27:43 | 0:27:49 | |
This note of full alignment, you
know, originally we are talking | 0:27:49 | 0:27:54 | |
regulatory alignment, now it's
follow my mid-. No, before that it | 0:27:54 | 0:27:58 | |
was regulatory convergence. This
could not be more important because | 0:27:58 | 0:28:03 | |
the soft Brexiteers and the fact
Remainers are seeing in this the | 0:28:03 | 0:28:07 | |
potential to in some ways for what
Brexit and keep Britain in the | 0:28:07 | 0:28:11 | |
Single Market and the Customs Union
in the names of alignment -- what | 0:28:11 | 0:28:15 | |
Brexit. They are assuming that
sacred is the aversion to having a | 0:28:15 | 0:28:19 | |
hard broader. When it really comes
to it, there is the choice between | 0:28:19 | 0:28:23 | |
staying in the Single Market and the
Customs Union, and palatable to | 0:28:23 | 0:28:27 | |
Brexiteers, and giving away and
actually allowing the border in the | 0:28:27 | 0:28:30 | |
end, that is what the Europeans
expects quite how long do you think | 0:28:30 | 0:28:34 | |
people might Jacob Rees-Mogg will
keep quiet about this in phase two? | 0:28:34 | 0:28:38 | |
All of the people and the so-called
hard Brexit site have been very | 0:28:38 | 0:28:42 | |
quiet. I don't think Nigel Farage
was right, I don't inspect them to | 0:28:42 | 0:28:46 | |
cause them trouble. There will be
people on the fringes who might. But | 0:28:46 | 0:28:50 | |
Anna Soubry and Nicky Morgan are
fully supporting the Prime Minister. | 0:28:50 | 0:28:53 | |
Most of the Brexiteers have been
doing that. It is a triumph. Let's | 0:28:53 | 0:28:58 | |
say, Stephanie, we are coming to
phase two, it. In the New Year, and | 0:28:58 | 0:29:04 | |
actually -- it. In the New Year, and
Junker... It's going to get very | 0:29:04 | 0:29:08 | |
tough against. It will be messy,
there will be now a lot of different | 0:29:08 | 0:29:14 | |
fronts, because there will be
national member states' interest | 0:29:14 | 0:29:18 | |
coming in, there's the European
Parliament now gearing up, there's a | 0:29:18 | 0:29:22 | |
lot of different interests. Let's
talk on this very subject. One key | 0:29:22 | 0:29:26 | |
thing was in this phase one, what
became very clear, you know, it was | 0:29:26 | 0:29:31 | |
one for all and all for one. The 20
27 states together didn't flinch and | 0:29:31 | 0:29:36 | |
they were powerful for it. So what
the 27 states. But when it comes to | 0:29:36 | 0:29:47 | |
trade, the car industry and
everything else, how much do you | 0:29:47 | 0:29:49 | |
think the 27 will stay together? I
wouldn't put too much money on | 0:29:49 | 0:29:52 | |
fractions between the Europeans. The
Europeans wanted the same, they | 0:29:52 | 0:29:54 | |
wanted the money, but the second
phase now is of course, you can get | 0:29:54 | 0:29:57 | |
what? At the end of the day, there
is no cherry picking. This will | 0:29:57 | 0:30:00 | |
unify the Europeans, no cherry
picking for the Brits. I think it | 0:30:00 | 0:30:04 | |
will be very difficult to get a
bespoke deal, but we've got to try. | 0:30:04 | 0:30:08 | |
I think Ian Duncan Smith has written
a piece for us into Morra's | 0:30:08 | 0:30:11 | |
Telegraph. That is saying, as a
Brexiteer, he is not jubilant but he | 0:30:11 | 0:30:23 | |
doesn't feel betrayed either. That
captures the mood of most Brexiteers | 0:30:23 | 0:30:25 | |
very well. They are hanging onto
this line that nothing is agreed | 0:30:25 | 0:30:28 | |
until everything is agreed. So
everything can actually... Will Iain | 0:30:28 | 0:30:30 | |
Duncan Smith go for a Norway style
deal, really? What he's saying, | 0:30:30 | 0:30:33 | |
again, sorry to repeat it, but
nothing is agreed... No, they won't, | 0:30:33 | 0:30:38 | |
this is the point. They can't
stomach staying in the Single Market | 0:30:38 | 0:30:43 | |
and Customs Union, even though the
logic is that they must. I don't | 0:30:43 | 0:30:47 | |
think so, I don't think that's
right. Let me explain why, because | 0:30:47 | 0:30:51 | |
if you leave the Single Market and
the Customs Union, the EU has the | 0:30:51 | 0:30:55 | |
pleased the border on its external
frontier, and that means a hard | 0:30:55 | 0:30:58 | |
border in Ireland. Is there an
alternative? All four parties, | 0:30:58 | 0:31:06 | |
Ireland, Britain, the Northern
Ireland Assembly and the EU or want | 0:31:06 | 0:31:09 | |
a frictionless border. If they all
have the same game they will get | 0:31:09 | 0:31:12 | |
there in the end. They will come out
of the Customs Union, because if | 0:31:12 | 0:31:18 | |
they don't, Liam Fox doesn't have a
job. We can't negotiate our own | 0:31:18 | 0:31:23 | |
trade deals. We've got this
agreement today between the EU and | 0:31:23 | 0:31:27 | |
Japan. Does anyone seriously think
that we're not more convergent than | 0:31:27 | 0:31:31 | |
the Japanese economy? I mean,
please! I'm afraid we have to end | 0:31:31 | 0:31:35 | |
it. There will be a lot more
conversation in the next few weeks. | 0:31:35 | 0:31:41 | |
That's all we have time for. | 0:31:41 | 0:31:45 | |
Have lovely weekend from all of us
here at Newsnight, good night. | 0:31:45 | 0:31:50 | |
Have lovely weekend from all of us
here at Newsnight, good night. | 0:31:50 | 0:31:53 | |
Well, there is more snow on the way,
but there is a bit of a long also on | 0:31:53 | 0:31:58 | |
the way for Saturday. | 0:31:58 | 0:31:59 |