In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark. Where next for Brexit? And why aren't under 25s using condoms?
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We're well on the road
to delivering a Brexit that'll
make Britain prosperous,
strong and secure.
We'll get it done and we'll get it
done in a very successful
and very timely way.
We are on course to deliver
on the sovereign vote of the British
people to leave the European Union,
and that's what we'll be doing.
But to what end?
Tonight, as the EU says talks can
move into the second phase,
we ask what comes next in the great
Now that Tories have
defied Theresa May once,
tonight she seems to have seen off
another rebellion with a concession
on the date we leave the EU.
I'll be talking to the arch
Brexiteer Jacob Rees-Mogg
and rebel Ken Clarke.
And "yesterday is history,
tomorrow's a mystery" is part
of a famous phrase -
tonight we look ahead
to the mystery.
Will Britain, separate from the EU,
embrace a different identity -
more dynamic, international,
a bold new direction?
Or will we go the other way -
and inward looking?
We've assembled guests
who each have a different
vision of the future.
I called it Geronimo, my friend.
Compared with the condoms
of today, it was like
wearing the inner tube of a cycle.
If it's so much easier and better
now, why are almost half of under
25-year-olds not using a condom
with a new partner?
What happened to "no
glove, no love?"
Is it the element of danger?
Is it carelessness?
Is it drink?
We'll be talking to one person
who suffered the consequences
and another who preaches safe sex.
At the end of a brutal parliamentary
week for the Government over Brexit,
Theresa May tonight appears to have
avoided another rebellion
by compromising over
the Government's attempt to enshrine
the date of Britain's
EU departure in law.
And in Brussels today, EU leaders -
with May absent and back home -
took less than half an hour
to formally agree to move
onto the second stage of talks.
But the document "calls on the UK
to provide further clarity
on its position on the framework
for the future relationship," and
there is much uncertainty to come.
So where do we stand
at the end of this week?
What do our European
partners make of us now?
And what is the road ahead
when it comes to this next
phase of negotiations?
Our political editor, Nick Watt,
reports from Brussels.
It's a season of peace,
a season of goodwill.
And, apparently, time
for a generosity of spirit.
But in Brussels, there are limits
to that Christmas munificence.
The atmosphere at this summit
is completely different to the last
gathering here in the autumn.
EU leaders have developed a grudging
respect for Theresa May and they've
decided to offer her
a small helping hand.
So the Prime Minister has been
given a breathing space
to allow her to formulate an agreed
Cabinet position on the UK's future
trading relationship with the EU.
But on the fundamentals,
the EU is not going soft.
The UK's decision to leave
the single market means
that the EU is saying,
your future relationship will be
that little more distant.
The hope is that the breather
will allow the UK to shape the UK's
guidelines for the future trade
negotiations and the Prime Minister
does want to press on with those
talks once the UK has fully
established its position.
A process that will move forward
decisively at the Cabinet next week.
In the New Year, David Davis
and Michel Barnier will start
to negotiate the transition period.
They will also touch informally
on the future trade relationship.
If the transition talks
EU leaders will agree to launch more
formal discussions on a future trade
relationship in March.
That'll leave seven months before
the informal EU deadline for
the overall withdrawal agreement.
So it will be quite a journey.
And Europe's two most powerful
leaders put on a show of unity today
to deliver what they regard
as some home truths.
I did not participate
in the referendum and I certainly
would not have voted for Britain
leaving the union.
And so what we have to realise,
what we have to implement,
is what the Brits tell us
is their wish.
To the extent that this
is reconcilable with our wishes
and enables us in the future to have
good relations with
our partner, Britain.
Britain will decide,
they have told us they do not
want to stay in the single market,
simply because complete freedom
of movement is something
they cannot sign on to.
And we said you cannot stay
in the single market
with just some freedoms,
you have to accept all
of the full freedoms.
We need to respect not only
the sovereignty of the British
people but also their own rules.
What I can tell you from our
perspective is that the decisions
will be taken in order to comply
with two goals.
Solidarity with Ireland and then
compliance with the single market.
So we've just had a rare event
at European Council.
A joint press conference
between the President of France
and the German Chancellor.
On Brexit, they make clear
that the next stage will be far more
challenging and they will apply
the rules of the EU.
But the principal message
was about the challenges
for the remaining members
of the European Union
on defence cooperation
and on the future of the euro.
So the message is pretty clear.
No privileges for the UK
and the EU is moving on.
And those Brussels habits die hard
as the summit spinning kicks off.
But sadness hangs in the air.
I think that the overall
atmospherics is not a negative one.
Having said that, one should always
keep in mind that this is a divorce.
And all divorces are not
a happy occasion.
So people are, in a way,
satisfied that the divorce
proceedings can now proceed
in an orderly way.
But still, there are many people
who, although they understand
and respect the decision
of the United Kingdom to leave,
they feel sad about it.
Europe's capital enters
Christmas in sombre mood.
Brexit is underway but the really
hard bargaining lies ahead.
Nick's in Brussels for us.
What are you hearing
about what happens next?
Obviously, the next immediate phase
is a transition, negotiations on the
implementation phase, and there are
interesting points in Brussels about
the main concerns of the Leave
campaigner is, EU sources said that
during the transition phase the UK
would be absolutely at liberty to
negotiate free-trade deals with
countries around the world although
they would not be able to implement
them until the UK has fully left the
EU. But if the UK in those
negotiations with those free-trade
deals adopt any God alone approach,
but it would diverged in a dramatic
wave from EU regulations, then that
would create problems, problems for
those countries negotiating with the
EU would say, what about relations
with us? And but also make it
difficult, the EU says, for the UK
to roll over its involvement in the
current EU trade deals it is
involved in and might continue to
want to have a relationship with.
Thanks very much indeed.
Well, next week, Cabinet discussions
about what Brexit "end state"
the Government should be aiming
for are due to kick off.
We're joined by the Conservative MPs
Jacob Rees-Mogg and Ken Clarke.
Jacob, good evening. Last night,
Theresa May won applause in the EU.
Will you be applauding her tonight?
I am always applauding her, she is
an excellent Prime Minister giving
clear leadership of Brexit.
happy that you are going to be in
the EU with all of its structures
and constraints and its laws, until
As I understand it, that is a
position set out by the European
Union and it is not the law, this is
the beginning of the negotiations,
the EU said its intention is during
the transition period we will be
bound by the single market and the
European Court but the British
government has not accepted that and
it would be very unwise to.
sounded like Theresa May had
accepted that, all suggesting this
is still up for grabs?
I have got
here the statement issued by the
European Union and this was issued
by the 27 member states, it was not
agreed by the British government.
would be ridiculous. You are
suggesting... Coming away from
Brussels last night, it was clear
that Theresa May, not you, Theresa
May thinks that in the transition
period we are going to have to take
and not make EU laws and accept the
four freedoms and live by the
European Court was back that would
mean staying within the European
Union for two years which is not the
Prime Minister's disposition but the
Prime Minister has said she is in
favour of another mentation, which
means we leave in March 2019 and the
consequences are ever limited and
the transition, which the EU is
offering, that means we are still
effectively in the EU for the
following two years, we cannot
accept the senior law of the UK is
coming from the European Union.
we're outside and no longer have any
judge on the European court.
does that mean? We cannot possibly
accept? Argue about to rebel on
this? Are you going to jump up and
down on this? That is not the
position of the Government.
I am not
jumping up and down, I'm sitting
down calmly and discussing this with
you. But we cannot be a colony of
the EU for two years from 2019 until
2021, accepting laws made without
any say-so of the British people,
Parliament or people. That is not
leaving the European Union, that is
being a vassal state and I would be
surprised if that was government
The rebels have got Theresa
May on the run. They have got to
back away the final date. You think
she is being driven by people like
Mr Clarke is a very
influential figure within the
Conservative Party and he is
entitled to rebel, as I was entitled
to rebel when David Cameron was a
Prime Minister. I think some of the
criticism made of the strong
pro-Europeans has been very unfair
but busy driving government policy?
No. It is clear that we will leave,
negotiations are moving towards that
and we will be out of the single
market and the Customs Union. Which
is tremendously important. But he is
entitled and right to make his
long-held and profoundly held views
Thank you. Ken Clarke,
turning to you, I will ask you for
your interpretation of what happens
in the transition period but the
Daily Mail called you a self
That is the
right description? There is a lot of
silly stuff in the right-wing
newspapers and I would have thought
later that it was obvious that we
have not in any way undermined the
government's negotiating position or
strengthened Jeremy Corbyn and we
certainly have not discussed any
amendment to stop bus leaving the
EU. Nonsense. The arguments are all
about what happens in Parliament.
The fact is, it was always a mistake
to think that Parliament was not
going to have the final say over the
details of the hugely important deal
which will determine our
relationships with Europe and the
rest of the world, politically and
economically, for the next
You say it is clear that
we will leave and that is not the
position you wanted to be in, you
voted against Article 50, you are
the arch rebel in that case. How can
the party get through the next few
months if what you and Jacob
Rees-Mogg are saying are
about the transition period must be
resolved, the speech in Florence was
a first-time Theresa May made it
clear she accepts we cannot just go
off the cliff edge in March 2019,
you will not conceivably finished
negotiating the longer term
relationship by then, for two years,
probably more, you will need a
period in which we carry on with the
same relationship we have right now.
We will no longer be members, we
will be attending councils as
of that, but we will have free-trade
and we will have free trade on the
present terms. It would be a
disaster because we have not
finished the negotiations in March
2019, if we started raising tariff
barriers and regulatory barriers and
Customs barriers. I doubt we would
get planning permission for lorry
parks in that time! Over two years
you continue economically, exactly
as we are right now, but politically
you have left the union. That seems
quite easy to negotiate.
So you don't think we will be
accepting the four freedoms, you do
not think we will have two be bound
by new laws in that period.
the opposite, we will stay on the
same terms as now, will be in the
single market, in the customs union,
we will be a bite by the rules of
the single market, which may change,
and we will be subject to the ECJ.
So internal party squabbling, no
fixed position, will that lead to
more stuff like Anna Soubry's
threats to hang Dominic Grieve,
death threats, have you received any
I have got one, yes,
but I have had them before. That is
all the silly nonsense which a lot
of silly right-wing newspaper
reporting helped build up. Defeat on
an amendment, which governments
often suffer, the defeat was on the
subject of Parliamentary
accountability, and all the stuff
that spun from it was complete
nonsense, the amendment that was
carried had nothing to do with
whether we leave the European Union,
it had nothing to do with whether
Jeremy Corbyn may or may not be
Prime Minister. It was about the
Government being properly and
sensibly accountable to Parliament.
Thank you both very much indeed.
Remember safe sex?
Almost half of all under 25s
do not use a condom
when they are having
sex with a new partner.
That shocking figure
is from a new survey
by Public Health England and YouGov.
It's probably why last year
there were more than 141,000
chlamydia and gonorrhoea diagnoses
in people between
the ages of 16 and 24.
Both STIs, if not treated,
can lead to infertility.
Such is the problem
that the Government
is about to launch its first sexual
health campaign in eight years.
It's all a lot to take in when most
of us thought things had moved on.
Look what we had to put up with.
I called it Geronimo, my friend.
Compared with the condoms
of today, it was like
wearing the inner tube of a cycle.
It wasn't disposable,
like the modern condoms.
It was designed to be
used again and again!
Noah is a college
student, and Ella Harvey
is the welfare representative
at Queen Mary's Students' Union.
Good evening to both of you. First
of all, tell me what happened to
I transmitted chlamydia by
having and protected sex with a new
partner, someone who I had known
before, so obviously I trusted them,
but foolishly, I have learned my
lesson now. But I got side effects
quite quickly, and what I did, which
I would recommend to a lot of young
people, if you see anything out of
the ordinary, any side effects, get
checked out soon, because if it is
something, better to nip it in the
So you knew this partner,
somebody you had been friendly with,
you did not know that she had
And she didn't know.
So you had sex with her,
thinking that whatever protection
she had meant she wouldn't get
pregnant, but you never thought
about protection for the sake of
Why didn't you use
Like a lot of young teens
in the moment, it is a heat of the
moment thing, it is not a top
priority, and you do look past some
important things which may have
serious ramifications in the future.
Did you know what chlamydia was?
had heard of it a little bit at
school, but it hadn't been hugely,
hugely educated to me. But that is
just personally me, throughout the
UK, you know, sexual health
education is quite on point at the
The story, is it fairly
I think it is very typical
of most people between the ages of
16 and 24, and even older as well. I
think that is a really common
experience to have, and yeah, I
I think it is extraordinary,
because we went through this whole
time of talking about safe sex, it
was related to pregnancy more than
anything else, 141,000 cases of
chlamydia and gonorrhoea in under
A lot of that has to do with
what you said, about wanting to
detect against pregnancy, and with
things like the implant and the
coil, they are brilliant and really
helpful, but obviously they don't
protect against STIs, which is
something that a lot of people do
Women do not display
symptoms of chlamydia, and it is
interesting, because if it was a
case that affected men's fertility,
I think the attitude may be
I agree, I think the
attitude would be quite different,
and I think a lot of the problems,
as I have seen my role as well be
representative, it is something that
myself and my colleagues are trying
to tackle. If this sort of gender
attitudes to sexual health is
something that can be perceived as a
negative attitude, but I don't think
it necessarily is.
Is a that if you
think that the partner you have this
protecting herself from pregnancy,
you are prepared to take a risk?
Definitely not, actually, I have
really learned my lesson, but I
would say to anyone, even if you
know the person, never have
conversation too difficult to have?
And also, isn't the case that it is
just drink and spontaneity?
think definitely, and another thing,
are not prioritising ringing a
condom when they go out, so
personally it is better to have it
and not needed than needed and not
I am surprised that so many
young women will take the risk of
I mean... Yeah, but
I think that I am surprised as well
that I think, when you are educated
about sexual health at school and
that college, I don't think that the
emphasis is particularly gendered, I
don't think there is a massive
emphasis either way.
And is the new
campaign going to work?
I think it
would have to be more sex positive,
it would have to include the idea
that women are allowed to have sex
and enjoy sex, and with that comes
responsibility from the male and
Thank you both
very much indeed.
As we move towards the end
of the year and have cleared
the first Brexit hurdle,
can we look ahead to our future
outside of the EU, beyond 2021?
What will it mean for the image
that we project to the world?
Is this a chance to
We did with the
Industrial Revolution, Empire,
and after the Second World War.
So what next?
I'm joined by the writer
Rebecca Walton is regional director
for Europe at the British Council,
and from Stanford University,
the historian Niall Ferguson.
Good evening, all of you, I would
like to bring in first of all with
you, Niall, what is your version and
your vision, I should say, for the
future of Britain after 2021? Say
the next five years.
Well, I would
love to believe what the Brexiteers
promise, that by voting to leave the
European Union, we become global
Britain and perhaps part of a vital
new rejuvenated Anglosphere, but my
impression is that the opposite is
happening, that the divorce process,
which may well still be going on
five years from now is so absorbing
British political culture that we
have become significantly more
parochial since the referendum, more
inward looking. I visit Britain
regularly from the United States,
and I am struck every time I come by
just how far Brexit is consuming us
and causing us to turn inwards,
rather than outwards. In that sense,
their plan is going rather wrong.
you say it is the political class
that does not have the wherewithal
to rise above this and lead us to a
new beginning, maybe it is other
people, cultural figures,
industrialists, scientists, maybe
people have got to say, we all voted
for this in a referendum, we cannot
leave it to politicians to define
our place in the world.
of the problem, Kirsty, is that I
think there was an assumption back
in 2016 that something was happening
simultaneously in the United States
that would create a new Atlantic
relationship. That something, of
course, was the populist wave that
produced Donald Trump, and there was
a brief moment when he talked about
Brexit and people were excited about
Trump, but in late 27 it is clear
that British people are about as
negative on Donald Trump as people
on the European continent. It is
just one of those signs of how
European we are that we hate Donald
Trump almost as much as the Germans,
the Dutch under this weeds do! So
the problem with the Brexit vision
of a global Britain is that if
global Britain does not include the
United States and does not include a
broader Anglosphere, then what
exactly is it?
I will ask the
British Council, you are charged
with forging new international
relations, creating new bonds, maybe
it will not be towards America, but
you see this as an opportunity to
I think re-find as well as
reinvent, because we have been a
global nation, and Eddie are
suddenly emerging after the
referendum seems bizarre. -- the
idea. We were a global nation for
400 years, 500 years, if nothing
else. So I think re-finding that
connection with other parts of the
world, yes, very important, if we
are going to make this reinvention,
as you call it, that is where we
We may have to reinvent
the relationship with the rest of
the European Union.
Indeed we do,
but there is a lot of tolerance for
that. Picking up on what Niall said,
this consuming conversation about
the divorce is not consuming most
Europeans, it is the bureaucrats,
but the people of Europe have moved
on already - they have their own
problems, their own identity issues,
migration issues, industrialists
use, developing their own economies.
They are all doing that, and they
see us was a friend, so the divorce
is not such a huge gap.
Manzoor, we are in a situation now
where the country is divided, by
nations, locally, city by city,
urban and rural - what is the
mechanism by which we come together
and become very proactive in forging
and making the country look
You have got
90 seconds for this?! It seems like
there is a disconnect between the
first part of the programme, the
technicalities, the discussions et
cetera, and the reason why people
voted for Brexit. For me, it was an
emotional moment, a protest vote
that has been turned into a viable
policy, so the question about
division, for me, you have got
people who are yearning for a simple
past, a vision of Britain which has
Where they feel more comfortable,
perhaps because they feel they have
not economically benefited, perhaps
because they do not feel politicians
have spoken for them, and then the
Remainers be a more comfortable with
that. This vision of Britain, how do
you do something which does not just
return to old ideas about Britain
alone which do not really include
the Empire in the same way, do not
include the new arrivals? It is
about trying to create a new version
And who does that?
of things will not really change, it
seems to me, people are still
wanting to go to universities across
Europe, people from Europe will want
to come here, the arts things will
carry on, so for me it is symbolic,
do we want England or Britain to
feel small or feel like we are
connected? Personally, the wider the
label, the more comfortable I peel.
Niall Ferguson, where does our
economic strength like, high-end
engineering, medical science, the
creative industries? How do we make
a new mark on the world?
United Kingdom is sold itself, you
may remember, as cool Britannia back
in the 1990s, and I think part of
the charm of Brexit for the rest of
the world is that we are going to
market ourselves as square
Britannia, people realise how
appealing Jacob Rees-Mogg is as a
character around the world Dr
please, he is charming but...
wonderfully stereotypical vigour.
Charming as that is, we have to say
that the whole point about this is
to FOI we up to have international
trade, new relationships, how do we
do that? -- to free us up.
is complex, having a square image
will not keep us in the mainstream
of a fast-moving world, we need to
join in with the tone that
recognises strengths without
boasting, and I think that we take
very quickly in Britain from a
position of great strength in many
areas, but we then tend to use it in
some way that is not quite as
alluring as you want to bring people
Just speaking up about the
charming Jacob Rees-Mogg, one of the
problems is, I don't think there are
people, particularly in politics,
speaking in an optimistic vision of
what it means to be British.
we leave that to the politicians?
Maybe those are things that happen
organically through culture,
festivals, films, books, maybe the
things that people consume and
experience, rather than top-down
Do you think, as the
British Council, that we can make
much more of our relationships in
the Commonwealth, and that perhaps
Canada is doing better than us?
Commonwealth is there, Kirsty, but
we have not been paying enough
attention to it to look like a
member that is absolutely part of
the family. There is a conundrum in
that, the Australians and Canadians
have taken leadership of the
Commonwealth, and we would need to
ask very nicely if we can come back
in, in a way, despite the leadership
with the Queen.
What is our best
chance, Niall Ferguson, in the next
decade, for greatness, to put the
great back in Britain?
Well, I don't
think the rest of the world expects
greatness from post-Brexit Britain.
I think light relief, comedy, those
are the things that we have excelled
at, rather like popular music. The
paradox of Britain is that we have
got steadily worse at doing things
like trade agreements, complex
negotiations, ultimately Brexit
happened because a complex
negotiation with the European Union
about Britain's special status went
horribly wrong for David Cameron,
and I think the negotiations of the
divorce are also going pretty wrong,
because David Davis is not a match
for Michel Barnier. Luckily, we are
still very good at entertainment and
pretty good at most forms of
culture, and that is why people will
continue to come to London,
expecting to be entertained and
amused by our politicians.
will be coming to lots of other
cities throughout the United
That's all for this evening,
but we leave you with
the finalists of the 2017
Comedy Wildlife Photography Awards.
Pretty self-explanatory, really.
MUSIC: "Close To You"
by Jacob Collier
# Why do birds suddenly appear?
# Every time you are near
# Just like me