25/01/2018 Newsnight


25/01/2018

News stories with Emily Maitlis. Including the Presidents' Club hostess speaks, inside the Saudi corruption crackdown, plus photographer Andreas Gursky.


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Transcript


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Tonight, a woman so distraught

about her experience

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at The President Club ball her mum

called in the police.

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We hear the story of Anna,

speaking out for the first time

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of the fondling, the massages,

the possible prostitution

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and the other jobs.

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A lot of the girls were handed the

men's business cards. I know there

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were a lot of nanny jobs are being

offered, they were getting work from

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these rich men.

To go and be a

nanny?

To go and nanny as well as

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other things.

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Also tonight, Newsnight has details

of how Saudi Arabia's

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anti-corruption drive

is being conducted and talked

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to the Canada-based

businessman at its centre.

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He didn't look comfortable. He

was... He was unshaven. He didn't

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look in his best condition.

Isner

mentor spreading beyond the

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political arena? -- is Momentum.

People coming together in

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solidarity, we get ourselves a good

deal.

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We talk to Momentum's

chairman Jon Lansman,

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successfully elected to Labour's

National Executvie Committe,

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what does want Momentum to do now?

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Good evening, she returned

from The President Club ball

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extremely upset and confused.

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Anna's mum told me today,

"not even daring to explain to me

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what she'd witnessed because she'd

signed a non disclosure agreement".

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Her mother, distraught,

called the police.

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The stories that are emerging

about The Presidents Club dinners

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at the Dorchester Hotel

are getting harder to hear, not

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easier with time.

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Anna herself, one of the 150 women

who'd attended the event,

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both last week and in a previous

year, told me today of her dawning

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realisation that the women there had

been hired to do nothing but

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euphemistically - "have fun".

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She described women giving the male

guests massages as they sat and ate,

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she described being fondled by a man

who reached for her backside and

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berated her for not being fitter.

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She described the after-party,

where a group of women changed

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into the same uniform

of sheer white robes,

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women, she understood

then, to be prostitutes.

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And she described the men

who offered the girls

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who caught their eye nannying jobs

for their own children.

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Anna is not her real name.

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We have disguised her and her mum

to protect her identity as she said

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When we got into the

room we were all...

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We were sitting down and then

we got told to sign an NDA

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and hand our phones in, which were

just put into plastic bags.

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And then we were given dinner

and we got given a glass of wine

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with dinner and then we were taken

for a rehearsal, which involved...

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We basically had to stand.

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We had to line up and then stand

at the top of the stage.

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And we went in twos.

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And we would pose at the top

of the stage and then walk.

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As if they said it was a cat walk

around the room and then stand

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by your assigned table.

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So you were paraded around the room.

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Up until this point,

it just feels like a sort of unusual

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modelling assignment.

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You're told what to wear.

It was somewhere between that and...

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You know, we thought

we would be waitressing.

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It wouldn't be food.

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We were told it wasn't,

you know, offering food,

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but it would be drinks.

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You went through the night,

you served drinks.

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Yup.

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And then were you

talking to the man?

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Or what did you...

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The thing was, there were actually

drinks already on the table,

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but there was also a bar.

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A lot of the girls felt awkward,

because we didn't know how to...

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Because, you know, the standing

up, the sitting down.

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Because, you know, we're standing

up, their sitting down.

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They're at a dinner.

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We didn't really know

what we were supposed to do

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because they already have alcohol

on the table from what we saw.

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So we sort of realised,

we're not here to serve drinks.

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And they come up to us

if they so we weren't speaking

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to the man and sort of say,

you need to engage in conversation.

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Which just felt so forced.

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Because...

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And just a bit strange, because that

wasn't what we were told.

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We were all standing up

and it was very, you know...

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It's quite claustrophobic

and you don't really know

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how to speak to them,

while they're eating.

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And did they engage

you in conversation, or...?

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Yeah, they did.

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And the thing was that I realised,

is there was just a massive mix

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of people attending the dinner,

because some of the men...

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It was quite obvious

that they were very

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confused what our role was.

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And also why we were there.

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And they were quite shocked

by it and sort of...

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I remember some of them actually

having a really nice conversation

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with me and there's the other side

of the men, where they're

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quite, just, flirtatious

and also grabby.

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Like,

some of them, you know,

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you'd stand and they would try

and hold your hand and speak to you.

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Or hold you by the waist.

I had one man...

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I was standing there

and he grabbed my bum and he said,

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"You don't work out a lot, do you?"

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And that's when, actually,

another of the men stood up for me

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and said, "Don't let him

speak to you like that".

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There were girls there that had done

it, clearly, before,

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and they were very...

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It looked like they

were enjoying it.

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There were some girls

in the middle of the room,

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on the longer table,

it was sort of...

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They were so touchy,

massaging the men while they were

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having their dinner.

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Some of the girls were sitting

on men's lap and the men were sort

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of feeding them their food.

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There were definitely some of

the girls who enjoyed the evening.

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A lot of them were handed

the men's business cards.

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I know there were lots

of nanny jobs being

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offered, so they were getting work

from these rich man.

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To go and nanny.

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Yeah, to go and nanny

as well as other things.

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And then there were,

you know, the girls who were

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very young.

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They were 19.

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Some of the men on their

table didn't want

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them on the table because they said

they were too young and they

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wouldn't entertain them properly.

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What's going through your head

at this point, then?

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It almost felt like we were escorts.

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That was not our role and we weren't

told that would be our role.

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And yes, some tables weren't eating.

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They didn't have enough girls

on their table, so they complained

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about not having enough girls.

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Tell us what else you saw

at the after party.

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Things changed, because all us

girls were in black.

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You know, black dresses

and black belts.

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And then at one point,

a song came on and these girls...

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I can't remember exactly

how many there were.

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I think about five women came

in, in sort of gowns

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that were quite sheer

and sequins everywhere.

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And they basically were also paraded

into the middle of the room.

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And it seemed...

Like they were prostitutes.

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That's what some of the girls

who had done it before said.

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And did you see any of the men

actually pairing off with the girls?

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Yeah, at the after party.

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Quite a few others did.

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We didn't see them going back

to their hotel rooms, but a lot

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of the girls said they were taking

them back to their hotel room.

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of the girls said they were taking

them back to their hotel rooms.

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You were still up

when Anna got home.

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She woke me up.

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And what do you remember

of that night?

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She was incredibly upset

because she was confused.

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She didn't know how to act.

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She was incredibly concerned

that there would be legal

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consequences if she even spoke

to her own mother about it.

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And what did you do the next day?

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I called the police.

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I was very angry and I felt that

something should be done

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about it, so I called the police

and the police came over and then

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I also felt quite protective

about my

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daughter, who wasn't keen for this

to go any further and...

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The police then came

back a little bit later

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and said that, unfortunately,

there was nothing they

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could do, because if

a bunch of middle aged men

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want to employ women

in whatever capacity at a dinner,

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it's not against the law.

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It makes me furious.

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Anna thought then she'd

never go back, but she

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came under pressure to do so and

reluctantly returned this year.

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What did you find, this time?

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Was it different?

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Had the atmosphere changed?

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It was different in the fact that,

at the after party, there

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weren't these women

who came in in white.

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That never happened

at the event last week.

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But it was along the same lines.

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And you found it easier, did you?

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Yeah, I did find it easier

and I was actually able, sort

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of, to look after some of the girls

who were quite shocked by what was

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going on.

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What did you think when you saw it

had been exposed, it was

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all over the papers and the news?

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I was very happy!

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And kind of amazed,

because I didn't think that would

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actually happen.

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But I think it's a great

thing it's happened.

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One of the women from The Presidents

Club.

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And just to add that,

the Metropolitan Police have

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confirmed they received a third

party allegation of sexual assault

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against a female at an event held

at a hotel on Park Lane on 21st

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January 2017.

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They also confirmed she did not

want to proceed with the allegation

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and consequently the investigation

was discontinued.

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Our business editor

Helen Thomas is here.

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What else have we learned today?

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This evening, we heard that Lord

Mandelson, the Labour peer, was

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asked to step back from the front

bench. He attended part of that

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evening. He agreed to do so and it

could put pressure on others who

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attended the event. We're getting a

fuller picture of exactly who was at

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this dinner. They were not very

wealthy and well-known people, like

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the likes of Sir Philip Green, owner

of top shop. A broad range of

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people, tables of some younger

professionals. Men in finance or

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real estate but not the boss class.

Vice Chancellor of Bolton University

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confirmed he was there and he said

he didn't witness any of that

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behaviour but said he felt

uncomfortable and left early. Senior

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bankers. The old lawyer.

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Another guest we spoke to, another

person who left early and didn't see

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anything told us he remember there

being a verbal warning, you've got

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some lovely ladies to look after

you, they are someone's sisters and

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daughters, so, please respect them.

Gosh, so everyone left early apart

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from those who obviously staged for

the after party. Where does this go

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next?

There have been calls for the

police to investigate. Vince Cable

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and Joe Swinson, leader and deputy

leader of the Liberal Democrats

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wrote to the Metropolitan Police.

When we spoke to the mat, they said

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there hadn't been any complaints or

reports by many individuals as yet.

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But as part of this we will see a

focus on nondisclosure agreements.

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The hostesses were asked to sign

5-page agreements and the Prime

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Minister's office today has said

that is something they will take a

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look at, how those are being used.

Thanks.

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Newsnight has discovered details

about how Saudi Arabia's

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anti-corruption drive

is being conducted.

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It began last November,

with the rounding up and detention

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of dozens of citizens,

including members

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of the royal family.

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A Canadian-based businessman

who was flown to the Kingdom to help

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the authorities construct a case

against the most celebrated

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detainee, Prince

Al-Waleed bin Talal.

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And now that businessman has been

talking to our diplomatic

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editor, Mark Urban.

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Viewers should be aware

that there is flash

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photography in the film.

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Early in November, something

happened that many Saudis would have

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thought unimaginable.

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From their homes across the country,

dozens of the Kingdom's richest men,

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including members of the Royal

family, were swept up

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and detained in the gilded cage

of Riyadh's Ritz-Carlton Hotel.

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It's been called an anti-corruption

drive and those facing interrogation

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include Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal,

whose estimated $18 billion fortune

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makes him Saudi Arabia's

richest businessman.

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Waleed bin Talal is important,

because he is the richest

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of the detainees, by far.

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So, he is very important

in financial terms.

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But he is also important

because he is one of the best-known

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princes in the west.

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And he has many Western connections

and he has many Western businesses.

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Waleed is known for his

gold-plated private airliner,

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his friendship with celebrities

as well as his business,

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Kingdom Holdings, that has

stakes in EuroDisney

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and Western tech companies.

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But his wealth and family

connections also made him a rival

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to Mohammed bin Salman,

Crown Prince and architect

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of the anti-corruption drive.

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We drive in under police escort,

just past midnight.

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No-one enters here, now,

without official permission.

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The BBC got a swift look

inside the Ritz-Carlton,

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but opposition sources have claimed

inmates were being tortured

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and required to sign

over their fortunes,

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in order to be released.

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On Monday, the Arab Digest

website reported that

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Canadian-based businessman,

Alan Bender, seen here to the right

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of Waleed bin Talal, had been flown

to the Kingdom as it built

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a case against the Prince.

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Mr Bender was taken

to a site near the hotel.

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Alan Bender had a unique insight

into the situation in the Ritz,

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because for the past two and a half

months, there's been very little

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information escaping -

that the Saudis have controlled

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the inflammation flow.

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Newsnight managed to locate

Mr Bender in Toronto.

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He was able to confirm his trip

to Riyadh in December and he spoke

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via video conference

while there with the detained

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Prince Waleed.

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He was brought in

the teleconference.

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He was brought in through

the teleconference.

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He was sat down.

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We were looking at each

other, face-to-face.

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I think he was surprised to see me.

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Umm...

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He looked different from what I'm

used to seeing him look.

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Did he look as if he was,

in some way, being ill treated?

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Or was he just shocked to see you?

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How would you describe

his appearance?

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I would say he didn't

look comfortable.

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He wasn't...

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He was unshaven.

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He didn't look in his

best condition at all.

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He looked tired.

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A lot of twitching,

while I was reading

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the script out to him.

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The Saudi authorities had prepared

a script of allegations

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for Mr Bender to read

out to Waleed bin Talal

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via a video conference link.

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In the script, it contained a lot

of information related to regarded

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conversations that Prince Al-Waleed

had, with or without his knowledge.

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It touches political,

financial and moral issues.

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I would say my presence

was to be used as, probably,

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evidence of details that they needed

to confront him, because I was

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probably the only person

who was involved in personal

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and direct negotiations with him,

related to a very personal matter

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that was supposed to be kept secret.

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Those very personal matters related

to Waleed's separation

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from a former long-term partner.

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Mr Bender has represented her

in settlement negotiations

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and she alleges that the Prince

engaged in abusive

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and immoral conduct.

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The Saudi authorities, it seems,

want to use these personal pressure

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points to force Waleed to sign

over his foreign wealth.

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Alan Bender has had a sequence

of meetings with Waleed bin

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Talal over the years,

face-to-face, very tough

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negotiations, concerning this very

acrimonious divorce.

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So, these two know

each other very well.

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And the Saudis flew in Alan Bender

and other old business adversaries

0:16:290:16:37

of Waleed, to try to

put pressure on him,

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to try to crack him and make him do

what Mohammed bin Salman wants,

0:16:390:16:45

which is hand over all his foreign

assets and make video-taped

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confessions, admitting

to all his guilt and

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swearing allegiance.

0:16:520:16:57

The Saudi authorities have announced

the Ritz-Carlton will soon revert

0:16:570:16:59

to its normal role as a hotel.

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But there's evidence

that some key detainees,

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including Prince Waleed had been

transferred to detention

0:17:060:17:09

elsewhere, even in December.

0:17:090:17:13

The room he was in definitely

was not a hotel room.

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I would say it looked more

like a detention room or something

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related to a jail cell.

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Even the sound of the doors,

sliding back and forth.

0:17:250:17:28

It didn't look or sound

like he was at the Ritz-Carlton.

0:17:280:17:31

You've known him, obviously,

for many years, what sort

0:17:310:17:34

of change do you think had come over

the man that you saw

0:17:340:17:37

through that video teleconference?

0:17:370:17:38

Dramatic changes.

0:17:380:17:41

He looked completely

different from the man I saw.

0:17:410:17:46

Whether in North America or in

Saudi Arabia or in Switzerland,

0:17:460:17:49

he wasn't the same person, at all.

0:17:490:17:53

He looked very sad.

0:17:530:17:56

And very...

Stressed.

0:17:560:18:03

Alan Bender's account is a singular

one and the Saudi authorities

0:18:030:18:06

have not yet responded

to our request for comment.

0:18:060:18:12

But it gives a good idea

of the lengths the Kingdom's rulers

0:18:120:18:15

are willing to go to humble a prince

who was their most

0:18:150:18:18

successful businessman.

0:18:180:18:24

Well, Mark Urban joins me now.

0:18:240:18:28

How Clear do you think we are now on

what's actually going on in Saudi

0:18:280:18:32

Arabia?

One of the things that is so

remarkable about Alan Bender's

0:18:320:18:38

account is we go very little from

any sort of reliable sources. The

0:18:380:18:41

whole thing has been cloaked in

secrecy and mystery. I mean, from

0:18:410:18:46

what we understand, because of the

powers the Saudi monarchy can wield,

0:18:460:18:50

some of these detainees have agreed

to surrender huge amounts of wealth.

0:18:500:18:55

So everything that's on the Saudi

side of the balance sheet, if you

0:18:550:19:00

like, is open to expropriation

ordeals. Some Saudi officials have

0:19:000:19:02

been talking about raking in up to

$100 billion from this

0:19:020:19:08

anti-corruption drive, so the sums

involved are huge. One Prince

0:19:080:19:13

reportedly released after agreeing

to pay $1 billion. Then you get to

0:19:130:19:16

the wealth outside the country, like

Prince Waleed's big stake in

0:19:160:19:22

EuroDisney, for example, much more

complex, much more likely to be

0:19:220:19:25

litigated. It is perhaps for that

reason that they're going to be

0:19:250:19:29

bowled like Alan Bender is to find,

if you like, dossiers of evidence

0:19:290:19:32

that could be used either to

persuade Prince Waleed not to impose

0:19:320:19:38

this in foreign courts ought to be

used in foreign courts.

And your

0:19:380:19:41

sense of what happens now is?

The

Saudis say this thing is winding

0:19:410:19:46

down, that there are a few dozen

people still in custody, that 90

0:19:460:19:51

have been released, that many deals

have been done. They say if you

0:19:510:19:55

agree to pay compensation for your

corrupt acts and to be sincere in

0:19:550:20:00

your repentance, you can be

released, and indeed it's known that

0:20:000:20:04

that's happened in the case of many

families. But the are still dozens

0:20:040:20:08

of people detained. About 60, it's

pleased, in highest security prison

0:20:080:20:15

including Prince Waleed outside

Riyadh. Their future is unclear.

0:20:150:20:20

The arrival of three Momentum

candidates last week

0:20:200:20:22

on Labour's ruling executive,

the NEC, was dubbed a Lan-slide.

0:20:220:20:25

A playful take on the name

of the charismatic figure

0:20:250:20:27

at its centre, Jon Lansman.

0:20:270:20:28

If Tony Blair's New Labour thought

it had shut down the socialist left

0:20:280:20:31

of his party for good,

the rise of Momentum,

0:20:310:20:33

which now stands at the party's very

core, is a reminder of how

0:20:330:20:37

much can change.

0:20:370:20:38

The group were formed

following Jeremy Corbyn's successful

0:20:380:20:41

campaign for the Labour leadership

in 2015 and now boasts 150 local

0:20:410:20:44

groups and over 200,000

members and supporters.

0:20:440:20:47

In a moment, I'll be

speaking to Jon Lansman,

0:20:470:20:50

but first David Grossman has been

to Lancaster to see what Momentum

0:20:500:20:53

look like in action.

0:20:530:20:56

Here's a project

making a difference.

0:21:000:21:04

Deborah Finn is collecting unwanted

food from this warehouse in Preston.

0:21:040:21:09

It's the start of a process

that she hopes will not just help

0:21:090:21:12

some people who need some help,

but will also change society.

0:21:120:21:17

The question is, is this politics,

is it activism, is it charity

0:21:170:21:21

or is it something else?

0:21:210:21:23

It's not party politics,

in that sense.

0:21:230:21:26

It is political, because

community is political.

0:21:260:21:31

When I started doing this,

I kept being told off, that,

0:21:310:21:34

you know, politics has no

place in community.

0:21:340:21:36

I was just bewildered by that.

0:21:360:21:39

I mean, what is community if it's

not full of political decisions?

0:21:390:21:42

And, so, for me, this...

0:21:420:21:45

I only got into this,

this whole process,

0:21:450:21:48

in September 2015, guess why?!

0:21:480:21:51

And got involved then with

the Labour Party and with Momentum.

0:21:510:21:56

So, why Momentum?

0:21:560:21:57

Why not just the Labour Party?

0:21:570:21:59

For me, I don't see

a distinction, to be honest.

0:21:590:22:03

So, why have the two memberships?

0:22:030:22:05

Why be a member of Momentum

and not just Labour?

0:22:050:22:08

I suppose just to signal

the strength of belief amongst

0:22:080:22:11

the membership that,

actually, we do want a different

0:22:110:22:13

kind of Labour Party.

0:22:130:22:16

That we want one that really does

believe in the new politics

0:22:160:22:18

of hope, of solidarity.

0:22:180:22:26

The food from the warehouse

is laid out at the friend's

0:22:270:22:29

meeting hall in Lancaster, piles

of perfectly good in-date produce.

0:22:290:22:33

It's a waste of a system Deborah

says needs to change.

0:22:330:22:36

This isn't charity.

0:22:360:22:37

This isn't a food bank.

0:22:370:22:38

No, no, not even remotely.

0:22:380:22:39

This acts like a cooperative.

0:22:390:22:42

This is about people coming

together in solidarity.

0:22:420:22:44

When we get together,

we get ourselves a good deal.

0:22:440:22:47

At half past six, the Lancaster

Community Food Club opens its doors.

0:22:470:22:53

The members pay the club

dues, £3 a week.

0:22:530:22:55

They vote on the club rules

and they socialise over tea.

0:22:550:23:03

This is not, though,

a political meeting.

0:23:030:23:06

There is no mention at all

of Jeremy Corbyn or Momentum.

0:23:060:23:10

This is not about getting

people to vote for change,

0:23:100:23:12

but being a change.

0:23:120:23:15

Do you talk to them about Momentum?

0:23:150:23:16

No, no, no, no.

0:23:160:23:18

You don't?

0:23:180:23:19

No, no, no.

0:23:190:23:21

There's absolutely no

politics in the club.

0:23:210:23:23

But Momentum's part of you and this

is why you're doing it.

0:23:230:23:26

Yes.

0:23:260:23:27

It's about my belief

as a human being about how

0:23:270:23:29

I think society should be.

0:23:290:23:36

And I think, if we are socialists,

we need to live our values.

0:23:360:23:39

I think we can't go

around speechifying.

0:23:390:23:41

I think we have to demonstrate it,

that is how we will achieve change,

0:23:410:23:44

by living our values.

0:23:440:23:45

We do need to change society,

from the ground up.

0:23:450:23:49

Do you think, in a sense,

that the problem with

0:23:490:23:51

the Labour Party was that it lost

sight of that connection

0:23:510:23:54

with the communities

that they were serving?

0:23:540:23:56

It was more, sort of, top-down?

0:23:560:23:58

Yes.

0:23:580:23:59

It was a sense that,

"As long as you give people stuff,

0:23:590:24:02

you know, they'll be grateful

and they'll vote for us".

0:24:020:24:04

Yeah.

0:24:040:24:05

Yes.

Undoubtably.

0:24:050:24:07

Yes.

And it stopped working, didn't it?

0:24:070:24:09

At the end of the evening,

the club members take turns

0:24:090:24:12

to collect a share of the food.

0:24:120:24:14

Around £35-£40 worth it.

0:24:140:24:17

Not surprisingly, there's

a waiting list to join.

0:24:170:24:21

How much is it really a model

for a new type of politics?

0:24:210:24:24

How much is it simply a reflection

of the fact that, as Deborah says,

0:24:240:24:28

people love a good deal.

0:24:280:24:34

Jon Lansman, Momentum

Chairman, joins me now.

0:24:340:24:39

Nice of you do come in. Give us

sense. We'd seen some of the

0:24:390:24:43

projects like the food, the sort of

community projects going on. How

0:24:430:24:47

much do you think that should be the

state's responsibility still and how

0:24:470:24:51

much should it be the work of

Momentum and the work of local

0:24:510:24:55

activists now to take on some of the

bigger problems, A&E provisions of

0:24:550:25:03

those sort of thing is?

I think it

should be a state of microbe

0:25:030:25:07

responsible at to do those things

that the state has off-loaded. The

0:25:070:25:10

collapse in recent days of trillion

has demonstrated the folly of

0:25:100:25:18

privatising public services.

0:25:180:25:24

privatising public services. -- the

collapse of Carillion. Private

0:25:240:25:27

sector contractors are at risk.

Still having to pick up the bill at

0:25:270:25:30

the end of the day. It would be so

much better for us to do it. I also

0:25:300:25:34

think it's important that we do live

the values that we preach and the

0:25:340:25:41

work that Deborah's doing up in

Lancashire is fantastic.

And

0:25:410:25:46

Momentum stays local. It's

individual groups and it's a kind of

0:25:460:25:51

centralised campaign.

It's both. We

got local groups that do things on

0:25:510:25:56

the ground, that work at elections,

that, you know, campaign in their

0:25:560:26:01

communities and in their workplaces.

And at a national level, you know,

0:26:010:26:06

we try and provide the back-up and

support. We developed digital tools.

0:26:060:26:11

We mobilise people to do the things

we need.

So let's look ahead, then.

0:26:110:26:19

Momentum backed councillors could be

the dominant voice on Haringey

0:26:190:26:22

Council. Come May, if you have that

push behind you, how radical but the

0:26:220:26:28

change be? How much would you like

to see? You mentioned the failure of

0:26:280:26:33

Carillion. Would you like to see an

end to the public-private

0:26:330:26:38

partnerships under way? The

development of the biggest state

0:26:380:26:40

between land lease and the council?

I don't accept there's going to be a

0:26:400:26:48

Momentum Council.

You've got to have

a strong voice.

We will, but it will

0:26:480:26:55

be a Labour council. It is now and

will remain so. I think that the

0:26:550:27:02

deal, I can understand why

councillors in the past but you may

0:27:020:27:07

have to do those deals as perhaps

the only option, but I think now we

0:27:070:27:11

could be only months away from a

Corbyn government. I think we got a

0:27:110:27:15

much greater opportunity.

How strong

will you be? If you have this boys,

0:27:150:27:20

will you say, I don't want to see

any more public-private by the ships

0:27:200:27:23

on the council? Let's take a Labour

run council, Manchester, I don't

0:27:230:27:29

want to see those deals any more?

Will you feel able to tell those

0:27:290:27:32

Labour councillors what to do?

I

think the great thing we've achieved

0:27:320:27:39

as Jeremy 's election as leader, is

we can enforce what they believe,

0:27:390:27:47

the state can do good things. The

state has been slapped off by

0:27:470:27:52

unfortunately too many politicians

across the spectrum over the last 30

0:27:520:27:56

years.

You are the radical man. You

either chairman of momentum. Let me

0:27:560:28:01

take you back to Haringey Council.

Would you like to see public worker

0:28:010:28:07

salaries over £60,000 cut?

That

isn't a proposal I'm familiar with.

0:28:070:28:14

Am I the radical man? I think I'm

the mainstream man. Momentum is the

0:28:140:28:21

new mainstream.

Is that something

you'd like to see?

I think there is

0:28:210:28:25

in many parts of the private sector

is far too great gap between the top

0:28:250:28:31

paid and the lowest paid, but that

isn't the top priority for me in

0:28:310:28:35

Haringey. I think we need, actually,

good managers to be able to take

0:28:350:28:41

public service...

Council tax, Chris

Williams's idea. A rise in council

0:28:410:28:48

tax for larger houses, cut it for

smaller ones. Where is your big idea

0:28:480:28:54

now? This is your moment. You've

come of age and you can start

0:28:540:28:58

saying, this is our radical plan.

This is what we want to see.

We are

0:28:580:29:03

developing radical plans and I think

a lot of local authorities are

0:29:030:29:06

thinking of new ways of delivering

public services in the public sector

0:29:060:29:11

and that is what I want to see. I

don't think that's radical. I think

0:29:110:29:15

it is now mainstream.

But no

commitment to cut salaries, no

0:29:150:29:19

commitment to raise council tax on

big houses, none of the ideas that

0:29:190:29:23

have been floated over the past few

months?

I want to see us build

0:29:230:29:27

houses. We've hardly build any

houses in Britain for generations.

0:29:270:29:31

Everyone wants to see that. What

makes...

You say that, the Tories

0:29:310:29:36

might say it but they haven't done

it. Unfortunately, neither did the

0:29:360:29:42

last Labour government. I want to

see it in the next.

You've said

0:29:420:29:46

clearly that Momentum will not

campaign for the deselection of

0:29:460:29:48

anyone anywhere, I think was your

phrase. Do you think there are

0:29:480:29:53

elements pulling you away from a

Corbyn victory?

I am pleased with

0:29:530:30:00

the new spirit of unity that we saw

on the NEC this week, is that I

0:30:000:30:05

think we now see in the PLP, that

recognises that Jeremy is here to

0:30:050:30:11

stay. I think we are seeking a

transformative government.

In a

0:30:110:30:16

spirit of unity, when you have for

example a local Momentum group

0:30:160:30:22

continuing to support and campaign

for a man who's been suspended for

0:30:220:30:27

the Dubler from the Labour Party for

his anti-Semitic views, what role do

0:30:270:30:32

you need to play as chairman of

Momentum? Where do you stand on

0:30:320:30:35

that?

I have experienced

anti-Semitism. My children are only

0:30:350:30:43

half Jewish, they have experienced

it.

You know what I'm talking about.

0:30:430:30:49

Local Momentum group, Walthamstow

supporting David Watson who was

0:30:490:30:56

suspended from the Labour Party

Scott and trying to get to the

0:30:560:30:58

bottom of this. Do you tell that

local Momentum group to get in line

0:30:580:31:02

because Labour has suspended this

man for anti-Semitic remarks?

0:31:020:31:06

Someone who has suspended Seu been

suspended hasn't yet been removed.

0:31:060:31:11

There are processes. One of the

things I want to see is speeding up

0:31:110:31:17

those processes. However, there

should be proper processes. I want

0:31:170:31:21

to see them improved and sped up but

we are very clear in Momentum that

0:31:210:31:27

if people are not members of the

Labour Party, they cannot be members

0:31:270:31:30

of Momentum. We are a Labour Party

organisation.

What would your

0:31:300:31:36

message be to Momentum? Don't like

someone who's been suspended for

0:31:360:31:39

anti-Semitic remarks, or do what you

want?

If people have made

0:31:390:31:43

anti-Semitic remarks, we have to

deal with that. But we have to do it

0:31:430:31:46

all so through a process because we

believe in applying the principles

0:31:460:31:51

of natural justice.

State visit is

now back on, working visit for

0:31:510:31:57

President dropped. Jeremy Corbyn

will be meeting him when he comes, I

0:31:570:32:01

assume?

I don't know whether he'll

be meeting Trump, but I don't think

0:32:010:32:06

he will welcome the visit and I

certainly don't. I think most people

0:32:060:32:09

in Britain won't.

Will you be out

there protesting it?

I think I will

0:32:090:32:13

be protesting Trump's visit. He has

shown himself to be a racist, to be

0:32:130:32:23

completely against what most people

in Britain believe in. I think his

0:32:230:32:28

politics have no place in British

society or in the United States.

0:32:280:32:34

Thank you very much.

0:32:340:32:36

Now, from events inside

Labour to events inside

0:32:360:32:38

the Conservative Party.

0:32:380:32:39

And, who knew, there's a bit

of a ruccus tonight on Brexit.

0:32:390:32:42

Nick Watt is here.

0:32:420:32:43

Take us through it.

We now have a

full-scale row in the Conservative

0:32:430:32:48

Party right up to the senior levels

in the Cabinet after a speech by the

0:32:480:32:52

Chancellor, Philip Hammond, to the

CBI in Davos. Talking about the

0:32:520:32:59

nature of a future trading agreement

between the UK

0:32:590:33:01

nature of a future trading agreement

between the UK and the EU he said

0:33:010:33:02

this:

0:33:020:33:10

. The Chancellor did clarify his

0:33:180:33:20

. The Chancellor did clarify his

remarks, but it really looked the

0:33:200:33:22

blue touch paper. His clarification

was not good enough for Downing

0:33:220:33:25

Street and this evening, Downing

Street issued a statement in which

0:33:250:33:29

they said, "The UK is going to be

the customs union and the single

0:33:290:33:34

market and these could not be

described as very modest changes".

0:33:340:33:39

That is throwing the Chancellor's

words back at him. The reason for

0:33:390:33:42

that absolute fury in the Cabinet,

I'm hearing from people not 1

0:33:420:33:47

million miles away from Cabinet

ministers, things like the

0:33:470:33:51

Chancellor's speech is making a

complete mockery of the Prime

0:33:510:33:55

Minister's Florence speech. He is

playing a very dangerous game and

0:33:550:33:58

the Chancellor wants to stay in the

EU in all but name.

Where is the

0:33:580:34:05

strength? What will happen?

Interesting speech this evening from

0:34:050:34:08

Jacob Rees Mogg, he is the leader,

the Chairman of the Eurosceptic

0:34:080:34:12

European reform group. Talking about

that mindset of the Chancellor, he

0:34:120:34:16

said we have to be careful about

being timid, about cowering and

0:34:160:34:20

about being terrified of our future.

The next step tomorrow is David

0:34:200:34:25

Davis, the Brexit secretary giving a

speech, giving more details of the

0:34:250:34:28

incoming patient period or

transition period. I'm told this

0:34:280:34:32

speech will be billed as a speech

from a principled pragmatists. It's

0:34:320:34:37

about keeping faith with your

respect -- Eurosceptics. And this is

0:34:370:34:43

not a speech of a "Weak supplicant".

And I think they are quite keen that

0:34:430:34:48

we compare that to the Chancellor's

speech.

Thank you.

0:34:480:34:52

We might all recoil from the slew

of smartphone images

0:34:520:34:55

that saturate the world.

0:34:550:34:56

But the response of one master

photographer has been to devote

0:34:560:34:58

years to a single picture at a time.

0:34:580:35:01

Of course, it doesn't hurt that

Andreas Gursky's large prints

0:35:010:35:03

of subjects such as tulip fields,

and one of Amazon's warehouses,

0:35:030:35:06

have been likened to abstract art.

0:35:060:35:14

As a new exhibition of his images

opens at a revamped Hayward Gallery

0:35:140:35:17

in London, the photographer gave

a rare interview to Stephen Smith.

0:35:170:35:20

This is a rave in

Germany, in Dortmund.

0:35:200:35:24

So, in a way, I'm very close

to this kind of music.

0:35:240:35:27

You like this music, don't you?

0:35:270:35:29

I like it very much.

0:35:290:35:34

I've read it's all

you listen to, now.

0:35:340:35:36

Is that right?

0:35:360:35:37

Yes.

So in a way I'm also...

0:35:370:35:39

I feel like a member.

0:35:390:35:41

You're a raver?

I'm a raver, yeah.

0:35:410:35:49

Andreas Gursky has brought his

outsize, meticulously composed

0:35:490:35:51

pictures to the refurbished

Hayward Gallery

0:35:510:35:53

on London's Southbank.

0:35:530:35:58

The pick of four decades of work,

some are eerily lonely.

0:35:580:36:01

In others, people teem -

human ant hills.

0:36:010:36:04

This is Gursky's view of one

of Amazon's despatching centres.

0:36:040:36:10

He's been called a chronicler

of late capitalism.

0:36:100:36:13

The remarks are right, because my

subject matters come from news

0:36:200:36:26

and this is the themes

with which we are concerned,

0:36:260:36:29

but this is only one aspect

of my work, so I'm a picture maker

0:36:290:36:32

and my main interest

is doing images.

0:36:320:36:36

A striking and uncluttered

stretch of the Rhine.

0:36:360:36:40

This image fetched

an astonishing £2.7 million

0:36:400:36:42

at auction, seven years ago.

0:36:420:36:46

A then record for a photograph.

0:36:460:36:47

It isn't quite what it seems.

0:36:470:36:51

You've removed factories,

or a factory.

0:36:510:36:56

What was your thinking, there?

0:36:560:37:03

It was just a consequent decision

to get the perfect image.

0:37:030:37:07

So, the location by itself I know

quite well as it's not far

0:37:070:37:15

from my studio and I do

there my daily jogging.

0:37:150:37:23

And so the idea came up by jogging

and looking on the river and then

0:37:230:37:28

on later on to realise the image,

it took me nearly two years.

0:37:280:37:31

Back at his studio,

manipulation of digital images

0:37:310:37:33

is now an established part

of Gursky's practice.

0:37:330:37:39

A bird's-eye view of a race track

in Bahrain becomes almost abstract.

0:37:390:37:45

Painstaking compositions like this

are Gursky's riposte to the Niagara

0:37:490:37:51

of images now flooding the world.

0:37:510:37:58

I think, in a way, my task is to set

something against this many,

0:37:580:38:03

many thousands, millions of images,

so, I'm producing very big,

0:38:030:38:06

heavy images and that means, yeah,

a decision in advance.

0:38:060:38:14

The photographer's high vantage

point has been called Godlike.

0:38:150:38:18

Is it benign?

0:38:180:38:22

You're more interested in the mass

of people than in an individual.

0:38:220:38:25

Why is that, Andreas?

0:38:250:38:32

In German, or in French,

we say "la condition humaine" -

0:38:320:38:35

this is what I'm more interested in.

0:38:350:38:43

That's all from us, but before

we go, for some they were eyesores,

0:38:470:38:51

for others they were status symbols,

but Sky today announced

0:38:510:38:53

that they will be ditching the dish.

0:38:530:38:57

Starting in Europe,

but before long in the UK,

0:38:570:38:59

Sky will be switching its TV

transmission from satellite

0:38:590:39:01

to broadband, and those

once-outlandish, now-familiar

0:39:010:39:03

appendages will start

to disappear from the terraces

0:39:030:39:05

and tower-blocks of Britain.

0:39:050:39:08

Here's a look back at the exciting

moment when Tomorrow's World

0:39:080:39:11

broadcast the first pictures

from Sky's Astra satellite.

0:39:110:39:13

Goodnight.

0:39:130:39:20

There are two satellite broadcaster

starting up this year, using

0:39:200:39:23

different types of television signal

and with satellites in different

0:39:230:39:26

parts of the sky.

0:39:260:39:35

And we've got a dish which is up on

the roof, ready to receive the very

0:39:460:39:51

first pictures from Astra.

Fingers

crossed, we should get those first

0:39:510:39:55

pictures coming in. There we are.

Those are pictures of the control

0:39:550:40:00

The Presidents' Club hostess speaks, inside the Saudi corruption crackdown, an interview with Momentum's chief, plus photographer Andreas Gursky.


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