12/02/2018 Newsnight

The first time I got

stopped and searched

I was around 11 years old,

12 years old.

The police would say it's

because there's been robberies

in the area but they wouldn't tell

us a description that we fitted,

except probably for being black.

Tonight:

The views of young black men

on what it means to be a target

of police stop and search.

So what would you do

if you were running the police

in London, trying to deal

with knife crime?

You might think that

stop and search works,

but is that at the cost

of community relations?

We'll ask the Deputy Mayor

for Policing and Crime in London

whether she thinks stop and search

is the right.

Oxfam - the Charities Commission

opens a statutory inquiry

into allegations of misconduct

in Haiti, but are they investigating

a crime or a cover-up?

We'll discuss charity transparency.

And South Africa stands on the brink

of a historic change of president.

Is this a second chance

for the country to put

itself on the right road?

Hello.

How do we stop knife crime?

And what should be

the role of police stop

and search in preventing it?

It's quite a dilemma, this,

in London right now,

because knife crime in the capital

is at a six-year high.

Last year there were 134 knife

murders in the capital,

and I'm afraid there was another

death yesterday afternoon.

Everybody acknowledges the tragedy

of it, but what do we do?

Now, the Met Commissioner Cressida

Dick has said she thinks that more

stop and search may be useful.

After all, knife crime rose

just as stop and search

was being scaled back.

So that's one view.

But there is a cost to stop

and search in the goodwill

that is lost from the black

community who know they are the ones

who are stopped most often,

particularly young black men.

Before we hear that

perspective, take a look

at some key statistics on this.

The starkest figure is this -

in the last 12 months,

the chance of being stopped

in London was almost five

times higher for black

rather than white men.

Hence the sense that it is

a racially-charged policy.

But of course the police can say

that reflects where the crime is.

So the crucial piece of data

is whether they are stopping more

innocent black men than white men.

And there is a small amount

of evidence for that.

In the last 12 months,

looking at 15-to-19-year-olds,

29% of searches led to some

follow-up on white men;

25% did on black men.

It's not a huge difference but, yes,

the searches on black men

are marginally less fruitful

than those on the white,

which suggests the police don't

have the balance quite right

and are searching

too many black men.

But to stress the dilemma,

let's remember that it is young

black men who need protecting -

they were the victims of 29%

of knife homicides

in London last year.

Well, that's the dry data.

Hear now what young black men

in the capital themselves think.

Film-maker Sarah O'Connell has been

finding out exactly that for us.

My name is PJ Taylor, I'm 28 years

old and I've been stopped and

searched about eight or nine times.

It gets countless after a while,

it's something that happens. Oh,

stop and search today, what

happened, and then you talk about

something else. The first time was

when I was 14, playing on the estate

in Brixton and the police were on

foot, they came up to us and said

they were going to stop and search

us. We had to stand up against the

wall and they threatened us about

running away. There was no level of

respect, we just stood there,

watched each other gets urged and

emptied the pockets, getting

frisked, front and behind, top to

bottom.

Nothing was explained to us, they

just done it. Like I said, we were

14 years old, we were just playing

out. How I felt at the time, scared,

hoping I don't get in trouble with

my mum because I want to play

tomorrow after school.

My

tomorrow after school.

My name is

Shanin Omara, I'm 32 and have been

stopped and searched at least 20

times in my life. They start by

saying that they've had lots of

incidents in this area and I've

heard that over and over in my life.

The first time they stop you they

tried the good cop, bad cop approach

where one of them will try and be

the more friendly version saying,

OK, we're going to be going to do

this, this kind of crime is

happening in the area and you start

questioning yourself. What was I

doing, where am I going? Why do I

need to tell you what I'm doing?

need to tell you what I'm doing?

I

am 25 and I've been stopped and

searched so many times I can't

remember how many. The first time I

was around 11, 12 years old. A lot

of The Times, when I was stopped and

searched as a child, the police

would say it's because there's been

robberies in the area but they

wouldn't tell us a description that

we fitted, except for probably being

black and wearing urban clothes.

There's times when they would just

harass us. Strip search in the back

of the van, touching certain places

that they're not really meant to,

legally, I understand, they aren't

legally allowed to do. They used to

really take advantage of our lack of

knowledge of the law and a lot of us

thought that because their police,

they can do anything they want.

My

name is Lamar Jennings McKenzie,

I've been stopped and searched once,

when I was 13. Me and my friend was

walking down the street. An

undercover officer, who wasn't

wearing any clothing that showed he

was an officer, grabbed me. At the

time I thought it was kidnappers so

I was really scared for my friend. I

now know that... You're meant to

show your permit, to let us know you

or the police and you are going to

do a stop and search.

My name is

Junior, I am 24 and I've been

stopped and searched over 400 times,

even today they still use the same

language, robberies, you match the

description, that's their reason,

basically. When they target you from

young and you done so much when you

were young, they don't want to let

it go. They always try and see your

movements can see where you -- watch

you. You're more likely to be

stopped and searched if you were a

tracksuit because they think

everybody wearing one is a drug

dealer. So they target that, that's

my opinion.

Generally the young

people I work with, identify and

they don't trust the police. Even

when it's mostly the males who are

getting stopped and searched, the

girls will tell me about how they

see their boyfriends or brothers

etc, siblings being stopped.

Do I

have faith in the police? Now I'm

going to say yeah, I do have faith

in the police because not all police

are... Insert aggressive word here,

but they are actually doing their

jobs and they are cool ones and

know-how to deal with it but a lot

of officers are trained on dealing

with human beings. You have to

respect that they are doing their

job but there's a way you do your

job and most of them that are put

out to do the stop and searches, are

doing their jobs correctly. You have

two come correct.

Personally I don't

like the police but there's good

police out there, good ones, bad

ones, corrupted ones. A lot of them

are corrupted, which is why they

have a bad name because they do a

lot of things behind closed doors

that is not in the media. I've been

a victim of police brutality, they

put me in a van and punched me up.

The police are high up and being on

the streets, making that accusation,

you are no one. You tell me how it's

meant to change.

I don't know where

they get it from but in their mind,

as soon as they see a black man or

black boy they think he's a

criminal, he's going to hurt me, but

somebody, so they start defending

themselves against something they

don't need to defend themselves

from. We aren't going to hurt you,

we're just trying to get on with our

lives, trying to get home the same

way you are.

Every time I see the

police I get an uncomfortable

feeling. Never comfortable with the

uniform, the car, just not

comfortable. I just know that they

aren't here to protect and me, they

aren't here to work for me, they

have no interest in me. If the

police officers are wearing body

cameras and they are active, then

they can't turn them on or off, then

I'd feel a bit safer because right

now the police can control their own

cameras though if they really want

to do something then it doesn't have

to be filmed. I'm just hoping my

phone has got a battery and

something that can maybe protect me.

I can go live and they may not be

able to do as much. Just me on the

roads, if they brutalise me and I'm

saying this officer done this, in

the court of law, without camera

evidence, his Word is going to be

taken over mine. It can sometimes

turn out to be horrific, the

outcomes. There was a little boy

called Tyrrell Hatton his picture

went viral on the Internet -- called

Thai rail -- called Terrell. He may

be on medication for the rest of his

life.

What there needs to be, there needs

to be more projects to give the

people, youth, ambition. If you're

not going to play sport or music

then is looking less hopeful you --

hope for you. But there is so much

more than that.

Investing in their

youth, that is the key, rather than

just random stop and search. Stop

and search itself doesn't deal with

the issue of knife crime because

knife crime is a mentality issue.

Nothing is going to work to be

honest.

There must be something?

No,

I'm trying to think. I don't think.

I'm done, I'm done.

The film was made by

Sarah O'Connell for us.

So let's hear from the other side.

Sophie Lindon is London's Deputy

Mayor for Policing and Crime.

Good evening, what's your reaction

to listening to those voices? Do you

hear them?

I've heard them many

times in the time I've worked on the

police and crime and when I hear

young men talking about stop and

search and the lack of trust in the

police it is concerning because the

police are there for them, to keep

them safe. As we've seen from the

statistics you put up today, many

victims of knife crime are young

black men and their families and

communities.

What was striking is

that they had quite nuanced views of

the police, it wasn't simple or all

hostility, they understand there is

good and bad everywhere but low

levels of general trust. Do you

think they are actually wrong not to

trust the police more or are they

right to take the view that they do?

I can understand and I have heard

many times as we did on your film

White sunk young men don't -- why

some young men don't trust the

police but the job of the

Metropolitan Police is to get into

the community so that the young

people who find it difficult to

trust them know that the police out

there on their side.

There are two

reasons you might not trust the

police, it maybe understandable but

they are good, but on the other

side, you don't trust the police and

you shouldn't trust the police, I'm

wondering if you are right that they

shouldn't or you sympathise with

them?

I think they should trust the

police because they are there to

protect them, to get knives off the

streets, to ensure they can protect

them. The reason I talk about

understanding their concerns is that

I've spoken to many young people

like those in the film who talk

about the times they've been stopped

and searched, the way it was done

and how it was ineffective and they

weren't given proper reasons.

You

believe them when they say it is

like that?

Absolutely, we know in

the past there has been blanket stop

and search on the streets which has

caused community tension. What we're

talking about with stop and search

now is expecting an increase where

it knife crime is increasing.

In

particular areas?

particular areas?

Yes, particular

areas.

When police say that you

match the description of a suspect

of a crime in this area, and I think

we heard it several times, do you

believe that the police say that

sometimes to justify going after

someone? Or the only way they

resemble the suspect is the colour

of their skin.

If the police are

undertaking stop and search and they

don't have a good reason, that is

wrong. It is important to have the

right intelligence because as you

seen tonight, not just in London but

across in another Wales, violence

and knife crime is increasing which

is why we have said to communities,

work with us and give us

intelligence so we can target those

young people and adults who are

carrying knives, and for whatever

reason it is, some of them

perpetrating violence and when

things get out of hand, people get

seriously injured or murdered.

So the contention is, and you and

the mayor believe this, stop and

search does help in the fight

against knife crime?

It is only one

of the tools involved in tackling

knife crime. One of the enforcement

powers the police have, and they are

doing lots of other work on the

street and in communities, but that

is just one part, enforcement, and

actually towards the end of your

film the young people really did

start to talk about what needs to be

done to tackle knife crime and that

is absolutely what we're doing from

the mayor's office, and the

Metropolitan Police, putting in

place the measures working with

schools, families and communities,

but the real problem, and you picked

out one figure, £22 million coming

out of London. That is just one

figure. We have money coming out of

schools, head of mental health

services, and only this weekend we

saw other survey where headteachers

were saying they couldn't get the

mental health support young people

need. We know if you really want to

tackle knife crime, yes, stop and

search, effectively and

professionally done, but also you

need to have investment in services

that are really going to support

young people, and that needs the

Government to step up and invest.

I

am interested in one thing, though.

Scotland I think had no knife deaths

of young people last year. London

was a very different picture. What

Scotland doing that London isn't

doing, and by? Sorry, Scotland,

going back some years, but why is it

working in Scotland and why not in

London?

We are looking at Scotland

and have learned the lessons there,

many of the things as part of that

strategy in investing in mental

health services, putting youth

workers into A&E departments, but

one of the key things they have done

in Scotland is invested in services,

in services for young people, mental

health services and work in schools,

and it really is very difficult to

really do that, the wide strategy of

public health they are doing in

Scotland, if we don't have the

investment from the Government who

are cutting the crucial services...

So your point is it is the central

Government cuts, to your budgets,

that are going to be responsible for

the difference between London and

Scotland in the performance on this

really significant measure?

So

central Government cuts to local

authority budgets or the NHS

budgets, obviously 32 local

authorities in London, they are

making it very difficult to

effectively tackle knife crime. The

police can only do so much. As we

all know they are the enforcement

part. We need and we are investing

the mayor's office, in new services,

mental health services, but compared

to the money taken out by central

Government, it just isn't enough.

Sophie Linden, thank you very much

indeed.

Thank you.

The Charity Commission has opened

an inquiry into Oxfam this evening

in the wake of the scandal

of misconduct in Haiti -

a scandal that is not going away.

The charity's chief executive,

Mark Goldring, went to meet

the International Development

Secretary Penny Mordaunt today.

There was an apology to her,

and there was also a resignation.

Not Mr Goldring himself -

he only started at Oxfam in 2013,

sometime after the misconduct

was inadequately dealt with.

But his deputy resigned today.

Penny Lawrence was international

programmes director at the time

and said she was ashamed

of what had been exposed.

What about Oxfam's

foot soldiers, though?

And its customers?

Here are some voices from Reading.

It sounds like bad behaviour

of a few people, but charities

generally do a lot of good work,

I think.

Yeah, it wouldn't put me off.

I'm long-term unemployed due

to ill-health, and I'm grateful

for being able to volunteer

for charities as well.

I mean, I like the idea that I'm

contributing towards something

which hopefully does a lot of good.

Do know what I mean,

they're making out they're whiter

than white, doing nice jobs,

getting a nice wage packet,

and they're just taking the Mickey

out of everyone that puts

all the money in the

bucket, aren't they?

So really they should go

to court, shouldn't they?

Using the Oxfam shop,

or donating, as I've just done,

it wouldn't make me feel any

different to do that,

but if I was going to give

substantial amounts of money

I would probably think more

carefully about what I'm

putting my money into,

and asking a few more questions

about what it is they're doing

and where that money

is being invested.

If people are going there

they should be doing what they're

meant to, not just...

They're not on holiday, are they?

Somebody in a position of,

you know, responsibility,

and a position of power,

who is actually going out

there to help, you know,

deal with a crisis, shouldn't be

using and taking advantage

of those who are obviously

being made homeless,

being made vulnerable, have

potentially lost family members.

You know, it's just

taking advantage.

It's not very nice at all.

Some voices from Reading there.

In fairness to Oxfam, it is not

alone in having failed to deal

with sexual misconduct properly.

In fact, it's not easy to think

of an organisation that has dealt

with a scandal of that

kind very well.

Something seems to get in the way

of full openness and transparency.

Penny Lawrence, the Oxfam deputy

director who resigned today,

says in her biography

on the charity's website,

"I am a passionate advocate

of women's rights."

There is no reason

to disbelieve that,

but clearly something

inhibited her publicly calling out

bad behaviour towards women

in her own organisation.

So let's think about transparency -

why it is so hard to be open,

and how far it should be expected?

I'm joined by crisis

management consultant

Robin Swinbank, and founder

of the Charities Advisory

Trust, Dame Hilary Blume.

A very good evening to you both.

Hilary Blume, why do you think

people find it so hard to be

transparent? They haven't done

anything wrong, the people in

headquarters. Why don't they just

want to quieten -- why do they want

to quieten it all down and not

exposed to people like the regulator

what has been going on?

Are not as

complacent as you about it. I think

they should be ashamed of themselves

-- I am not as complacent. The

problem we are talking about,

transparency, it is not what the

problem is. The problem really is

what was Oxfam doing sending people

from Western Europe into a situation

where the didn't have... Nobody had

any control over them, they were

answerable to nobody, and they were

having an appalling time in the

sense that they weren't helping the

people, and they brought the whole

upper and into disrepute. Now, if

you see your charity as an operation

to raise money, and you think that

what you are doing is about money,

then you would want to keep very

quiet about it. What we should be

talking about is why they were

sending people from outside with no

democratic control over them, why

were they doing that in the first

place?

You really raising a very big

point going much wider than sexual

misconduct at Oxfam, which is the

whole model of aid often as you send

foreigners in to try and help the

locals, that is what aid mostly is,

isn't it? You like that is how it

was in 1950. I don't think we should

proceed on the same basis --

yes,

that is how it was in 1950. When

Ghana became independent there were

not that many graduates in the

country but now we are watching

their doctors and nurses, so there

are people there who are qualified

and the real problem is there is

nobody controlling these outside

organisations.

We go in not really

accountable to government...

Yes,

who are they accountable to?

Robin

Swinbank, I am interested in this

issue of transparency, to get back

to that. What do you think the

obstacle is? So often, you think,

why did you do that? It was

obviously going to come out at some

point.

I think is the time pressure

involved and being able to

articulate your story from your

prospective in a very brief and

clear way. You are under immense

under immense pressure, immense

scrutiny, and you are likely to get

a kicking from your key

stakeholders, the media, the public,

the politicians.

But is it not possible to look good?

You have to sanction this conduct

scandal and one of your projects...

You see, we have on this, uncovered

it and we have dealt with it. Does

that leave everybody feeling very

queasy or do they think, it is an

efficient organisation? We know that

things go wrong in organisations all

the time. We are not embarrassed to

say that things have gone wrong.

I

think the general public or of that

view, that things can be forgiven,

but in the media, with the story

breaking,

breaking, something has gone wrong,

and you are going to be judged for

the thing that has gone wrong. It is

how you move forward from that

position, how you defend it and how

you articulate it in a way that is

convincing in a short space of time,

and that is very challenging from a

management perspective.

Is it the

case that all the other aid

charities, with models very similar

to Oxfam's, they must be looking

through their back catalogue and

saying, OMG, what have we got?

I

don't think they will look through

it.

Whistle-blower might now bring

it forward and you will look much

better to have exposed it yourself

than to let someone asked...

I just

think you will look terrible doing

it, and I think it is intrinsic,

particularly in disaster situations,

that you will get these abuses,

because think about it. People have

nothing. Somebody comes in, and

they've got food and they've got

supplies, and they've got

possibilities for you. And you have

three hungry children at home, and

you're still quite pretty. Won't you

therefore expose yourself and try to

get the best for your children? It

puts you in a terrible position, and

the real problem is that so much of

this parachuting people into the

situations makes it difficult. If

you gave it to the local corrupt

organisations, at least the public

there would know that they were

there...

It is a fascinating

argument.

They would have to have,

they would have some control over

them. One of the most interesting

examples of aid is that in an

African country, and I wish I could

remember which one, they put up

signs on the schools saying this

school gets this amount of money

from the government, and it was a

real revelation to the people, and

they said, OK, that is enough for

more teachers and why haven't we got

the textbooks? If you give people

information they have some power.

Well, transparency was our original

topic and you are making the point

more general than that. Robin

Swinbank, what is your advice to all

the other charities now?

Well, I think it is a collective

problem, because it will damage the

voluntary sector, undoubtedly.

Confidence will be damaged in the

giving aspect of that. People will

be wary of it.

You have given advice

on crisis management, with handling

these things. What is the sort of

goal to advise at this point?

It is

absolutely to have the position that

the crisis is both a threat and an

opportunity and the vision must be

to be in a better place at the end

of it than you were before the

crisis unfolded.

I don't see the

opportunity. Do you mean to sort out

your safeguarding?

Absolutely, to

sort out how you are structured,

what your policies and procedures

are, how robust the art, and how

will you communicate your beliefs

and your values to all you stay

called as -- how robust they are.

Very briefly.

There has been a

further development in that Helen

Evans, who was actually in charge of

monitoring these events, has just

spoken out and said, all her

approaches were ignored by Oxfam. I

think that one is a hard one to

overcome.

This is obviously going to

run on for days. Thank you both very

much.

Thank you.

Now, we will take a

pause.

pause. For Viewsnight. Polly has her

say about workers' writes in the

so-called gig economy.

That was poorly's Viewsnight there.

That was Polly's Viewsnight there.

South Africa really

is on the cusp of regime change

of a significant kind.

Jacob Zuma is on the way out.

According to the broadscaster

SABC, he has been given

48 hours to resign.

For the best part of a week now,

he's been clinging on.

His heir apparent, Cyril Ramaphosa,

has spent days trying

to persuade him to stand aside.

That didn't seem to work, so today,

it was the ANC's National Executive

Committee's turn -

that met for six hours,

but it didn't quite

agree to dislodge him.

But everyone now assumes he will be

deposed, and South Africa will get

a second chance to launch itself

as a well-run African country.

For quite a few years now

there has been popular

discontent at President Zuma.

Here, as long as go as 2013,

he was being booed at

Nelson Mandela's memorial service.

A sense that the man

was better at looking

after himself than his country.

He became president in 2009

after rising to the top

of the ANC two years before.

You could just dismiss him as a bad

president - that can

happen in any country.

I, Jacob...

But there have to be big

questions for the ANC,

which selected Zuma,

despite some massive questions

that predated his rise

to president of the party.

He was charged with

raping an HIV-positive

family friend in 2005.

Although he was acquitted,

he told the court that in order

to avoid catching HIV he had

showered, a claim

that was much derided.

But more significantly,

Mr Zuma had been deputy president

under President Thabo Mbeki

but was sacked on allegations

of money-laundering and racketeer.

It would be best to release

honourable Jacob Zuma

from his responsibilities as deputy

president of the republic

and member of the Cabinet.

Charges that have

refused to go away.

Was there any due diligence

by the ANC at the time?

Did anyone care?

Well, there's no doubt Mr Zuma has

enjoyed strong support among some

members of the public,

particularly in his home

province of KwaZulu-Natal.

He has a populist appeal.

From a poor start, he portrays

himself as a man of the people.

When the going was getting tough

last year he made a populist gesture

of suggesting white land might be

expropriated without compensation.

For him, the future may involve

some legal problems.

For South Africa, the question

is whether the ANC has

learned its lesson and will pick

more carefully in future.

For now, everyone thinks Zuma's

replacement, Cyril Ramaphosa,

is a big improvement,

but can he really turn

the country round?

Verashni Pillay is head

of digital at the Johannesburg

radio station Power FM,

she's the former Editor-in-Chief

of HuffPost South Africa

and the Mail & Guardian.

I asked her whether President Jacob

Zuma could expect a soft deal

similar to the one Robert Mugabe got

in order to get him out of office?

This is the raging debate happening

right now in South Africa,

and I have to say that

South Africans are a lot less

forgiving than Zimbabweans appear

to be around their president leaving

office.

So right now there's all sorts

of speculation in the media around

the kind of deal that is being cut

within the ruling party to get

the president to leave.

From what the reports are saying

and the sources that

are sort of leaking,

it seems he is very reluctant to go

and wants some sort of protection.

However, it would make

the new president very unpopular

to give him any kind of blanket

amnesty, so while there have been

reports of various deals

nothing has been confirmed.

However, if the opposition party

takes it into their own hands to do

some sort of vote of no-confidence

in the president, and are finally

successful with that, you know,

he has no bargaining power,

and will leave with no benefits

for the rest of his life.

He has a terrible press

here and he has a pretty bad

press in South Africa.

I just wonder if you could

explain his popular appeal

because there are plenty of people

who rather love Jacob Zuma, right?

I think especially at

the beginning of his presidency

he was very well loved.

I mean, he managed to do

the unthinkable and get

a sitting president recalled.

So he was very popular

in the beginning.

And he particularly had

a very grass-roots appeal,

particularly in his native province,

KwaZulu-Natal, and it's said that

within the rural areas

he was considered very popular too,

because the previous president,

Thabo Mbeki, was seen as very

detached and very sort

of intellectual and cold,

and Zuma was seen as

a friendly, charming person.

He is said to be very

charming in person.

But he has frittered away that

goodwill and it's very hard to find

real supporters of Zuma,

even in his former strongholds

it's very difficult

to find supporters now.

There were a lot of signs

of the things that have turned out

to be problematic about Zuma.

Some of those signs were there

before the man took office

and I just wonder whether,

you know, everyone loves

Cyril Ramaphosa, but do you think,

looking ahead, that the ANC

will pick candidates responsibly?

If they get a second chance.

I mean, let's be honest,

the ANC's fate at the polls is dire.

Their share of the vote has

been rapidly declining

over every election.

We have very trustworthy elections.

Hopefully they will take this

as a lesson and clean-up their house

in the party so people will give

them the chance when it

comes around again.

How excited are you by

a change in administration?

It seems like quite a significant

change of direction.

For me, purely from a political

point of view, what is happening

right now is a spring.

There is no other way to put it,

everyone is calling it an absolute

spring that's happening in South

Africa.

Not only do we have new leadership

but we have strong words and action

being taken around accountability.

Not all just emanating

from Ramaphosa.

Coming from our parliament,

our civil society, everyone has

really pulled together to say,

you know what, we aren't

going to let it slide,

we're demanding accountability.

All the corrupt deals we've been

reading about for years,

and it's showing we're

making a U-turn.

We were very close to going off

the precipice where corruption

would have become entrenched

and I feel like we're coming

back from that cliff.

Exciting times, thank you so much,

thanks for talking to us.

We hoped to speak to Peter Hain who

is in South Africa at the moment but

I don't think we can so we may have

some time to look at the papers.

Fascinating how something like the

Oxfam crisis escalates, starting on

Friday in the Times. The Guardian

leading on that, Oxfam deputy leader

quitting. Catching up on today's

news. The Guardian saying Oxfam

could lose 29 million in European

funding because of the handling of

the misconduct scandal. In a column,

the Oxfam sex story is effect and so

is the war on foreign aid. The Daily

Telegraph also leading on the

subject, Oxfam workers offered aid

for sex. Whistle-blower claims rape

overseas and abuse in charity shops

were ignored, that was Helen Evans,

who we heard about, she's a spoken

on Channel 4. A full-blown crisis

for Oxfam. That's it from us. We're

going to leave you with the voice of

Katie Couric on NBC. We all

occasionally say stupid things but

her observations about the

Netherlands speed skating team, they

appear not to be based entirely on

fact, much to the amusement of the

Dutch.

Next is the Netherlands.

It's probably not a newsflash

to tell you the Dutch are really,

really good at speed skating.

All but five of the 110 medals

they've won have been

on the speed skating oval.

Now, why are they so good,

you may be asking yourselves?

Because skating is an important mode

of transportation in a city

like Amsterdam which sits

at sea level.

As you all know, it has

lots of canals which can

freeze in the winter.

For as long as those

canals have existed,