With Evan Davis. Young black men talk about stop and search, the Charity Commission launches an inquiry into Oxfam in Haiti, and South Africa prepares for a new president.
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The first time I got
stopped and searched
I was around 11 years old,
12 years old.
The police would say it's
because there's been robberies
in the area but they wouldn't tell
us a description that we fitted,
except probably for being black.
The views of young black men
on what it means to be a target
of police stop and search.
So what would you do
if you were running the police
in London, trying to deal
with knife crime?
You might think that
stop and search works,
but is that at the cost
of community relations?
We'll ask the Deputy Mayor
for Policing and Crime in London
whether she thinks stop and search
is the right.
Oxfam - the Charities Commission
opens a statutory inquiry
into allegations of misconduct
in Haiti, but are they investigating
a crime or a cover-up?
We'll discuss charity transparency.
And South Africa stands on the brink
of a historic change of president.
Is this a second chance
for the country to put
itself on the right road?
How do we stop knife crime?
And what should be
the role of police stop
and search in preventing it?
It's quite a dilemma, this,
in London right now,
because knife crime in the capital
is at a six-year high.
Last year there were 134 knife
murders in the capital,
and I'm afraid there was another
death yesterday afternoon.
Everybody acknowledges the tragedy
of it, but what do we do?
Now, the Met Commissioner Cressida
Dick has said she thinks that more
stop and search may be useful.
After all, knife crime rose
just as stop and search
was being scaled back.
So that's one view.
But there is a cost to stop
and search in the goodwill
that is lost from the black
community who know they are the ones
who are stopped most often,
particularly young black men.
Before we hear that
perspective, take a look
at some key statistics on this.
The starkest figure is this -
in the last 12 months,
the chance of being stopped
in London was almost five
times higher for black
rather than white men.
Hence the sense that it is
a racially-charged policy.
But of course the police can say
that reflects where the crime is.
So the crucial piece of data
is whether they are stopping more
innocent black men than white men.
And there is a small amount
of evidence for that.
In the last 12 months,
looking at 15-to-19-year-olds,
29% of searches led to some
follow-up on white men;
25% did on black men.
It's not a huge difference but, yes,
the searches on black men
are marginally less fruitful
than those on the white,
which suggests the police don't
have the balance quite right
and are searching
too many black men.
But to stress the dilemma,
let's remember that it is young
black men who need protecting -
they were the victims of 29%
of knife homicides
in London last year.
Well, that's the dry data.
Hear now what young black men
in the capital themselves think.
Film-maker Sarah O'Connell has been
finding out exactly that for us.
My name is PJ Taylor, I'm 28 years
old and I've been stopped and
searched about eight or nine times.
It gets countless after a while,
it's something that happens. Oh,
stop and search today, what
happened, and then you talk about
something else. The first time was
when I was 14, playing on the estate
in Brixton and the police were on
foot, they came up to us and said
they were going to stop and search
us. We had to stand up against the
wall and they threatened us about
running away. There was no level of
respect, we just stood there,
watched each other gets urged and
emptied the pockets, getting
frisked, front and behind, top to
Nothing was explained to us, they
just done it. Like I said, we were
14 years old, we were just playing
out. How I felt at the time, scared,
hoping I don't get in trouble with
my mum because I want to play
tomorrow after school.
tomorrow after school.
My name is
Shanin Omara, I'm 32 and have been
stopped and searched at least 20
times in my life. They start by
saying that they've had lots of
incidents in this area and I've
heard that over and over in my life.
The first time they stop you they
tried the good cop, bad cop approach
where one of them will try and be
the more friendly version saying,
OK, we're going to be going to do
this, this kind of crime is
happening in the area and you start
questioning yourself. What was I
doing, where am I going? Why do I
need to tell you what I'm doing?
need to tell you what I'm doing?
am 25 and I've been stopped and
searched so many times I can't
remember how many. The first time I
was around 11, 12 years old. A lot
of The Times, when I was stopped and
searched as a child, the police
would say it's because there's been
robberies in the area but they
wouldn't tell us a description that
we fitted, except for probably being
black and wearing urban clothes.
There's times when they would just
harass us. Strip search in the back
of the van, touching certain places
that they're not really meant to,
legally, I understand, they aren't
legally allowed to do. They used to
really take advantage of our lack of
knowledge of the law and a lot of us
thought that because their police,
they can do anything they want.
name is Lamar Jennings McKenzie,
I've been stopped and searched once,
when I was 13. Me and my friend was
walking down the street. An
undercover officer, who wasn't
wearing any clothing that showed he
was an officer, grabbed me. At the
time I thought it was kidnappers so
I was really scared for my friend. I
now know that... You're meant to
show your permit, to let us know you
or the police and you are going to
do a stop and search.
My name is
Junior, I am 24 and I've been
stopped and searched over 400 times,
even today they still use the same
language, robberies, you match the
description, that's their reason,
basically. When they target you from
young and you done so much when you
were young, they don't want to let
it go. They always try and see your
movements can see where you -- watch
you. You're more likely to be
stopped and searched if you were a
tracksuit because they think
everybody wearing one is a drug
dealer. So they target that, that's
Generally the young
people I work with, identify and
they don't trust the police. Even
when it's mostly the males who are
getting stopped and searched, the
girls will tell me about how they
see their boyfriends or brothers
etc, siblings being stopped.
have faith in the police? Now I'm
going to say yeah, I do have faith
in the police because not all police
are... Insert aggressive word here,
but they are actually doing their
jobs and they are cool ones and
know-how to deal with it but a lot
of officers are trained on dealing
with human beings. You have to
respect that they are doing their
job but there's a way you do your
job and most of them that are put
out to do the stop and searches, are
doing their jobs correctly. You have
two come correct.
Personally I don't
like the police but there's good
police out there, good ones, bad
ones, corrupted ones. A lot of them
are corrupted, which is why they
have a bad name because they do a
lot of things behind closed doors
that is not in the media. I've been
a victim of police brutality, they
put me in a van and punched me up.
The police are high up and being on
the streets, making that accusation,
you are no one. You tell me how it's
meant to change.
I don't know where
they get it from but in their mind,
as soon as they see a black man or
black boy they think he's a
criminal, he's going to hurt me, but
somebody, so they start defending
themselves against something they
don't need to defend themselves
from. We aren't going to hurt you,
we're just trying to get on with our
lives, trying to get home the same
way you are.
Every time I see the
police I get an uncomfortable
feeling. Never comfortable with the
uniform, the car, just not
comfortable. I just know that they
aren't here to protect and me, they
aren't here to work for me, they
have no interest in me. If the
police officers are wearing body
cameras and they are active, then
they can't turn them on or off, then
I'd feel a bit safer because right
now the police can control their own
cameras though if they really want
to do something then it doesn't have
to be filmed. I'm just hoping my
phone has got a battery and
something that can maybe protect me.
I can go live and they may not be
able to do as much. Just me on the
roads, if they brutalise me and I'm
saying this officer done this, in
the court of law, without camera
evidence, his Word is going to be
taken over mine. It can sometimes
turn out to be horrific, the
outcomes. There was a little boy
called Tyrrell Hatton his picture
went viral on the Internet -- called
Thai rail -- called Terrell. He may
be on medication for the rest of his
What there needs to be, there needs
to be more projects to give the
people, youth, ambition. If you're
not going to play sport or music
then is looking less hopeful you --
hope for you. But there is so much
more than that.
Investing in their
youth, that is the key, rather than
just random stop and search. Stop
and search itself doesn't deal with
the issue of knife crime because
knife crime is a mentality issue.
Nothing is going to work to be
There must be something?
I'm trying to think. I don't think.
I'm done, I'm done.
The film was made by
Sarah O'Connell for us.
So let's hear from the other side.
Sophie Lindon is London's Deputy
Mayor for Policing and Crime.
Good evening, what's your reaction
to listening to those voices? Do you
I've heard them many
times in the time I've worked on the
police and crime and when I hear
young men talking about stop and
search and the lack of trust in the
police it is concerning because the
police are there for them, to keep
them safe. As we've seen from the
statistics you put up today, many
victims of knife crime are young
black men and their families and
What was striking is
that they had quite nuanced views of
the police, it wasn't simple or all
hostility, they understand there is
good and bad everywhere but low
levels of general trust. Do you
think they are actually wrong not to
trust the police more or are they
right to take the view that they do?
I can understand and I have heard
many times as we did on your film
White sunk young men don't -- why
some young men don't trust the
police but the job of the
Metropolitan Police is to get into
the community so that the young
people who find it difficult to
trust them know that the police out
there on their side.
There are two
reasons you might not trust the
police, it maybe understandable but
they are good, but on the other
side, you don't trust the police and
you shouldn't trust the police, I'm
wondering if you are right that they
shouldn't or you sympathise with
I think they should trust the
police because they are there to
protect them, to get knives off the
streets, to ensure they can protect
them. The reason I talk about
understanding their concerns is that
I've spoken to many young people
like those in the film who talk
about the times they've been stopped
and searched, the way it was done
and how it was ineffective and they
weren't given proper reasons.
believe them when they say it is
Absolutely, we know in
the past there has been blanket stop
and search on the streets which has
caused community tension. What we're
talking about with stop and search
now is expecting an increase where
it knife crime is increasing.
When police say that you
match the description of a suspect
of a crime in this area, and I think
we heard it several times, do you
believe that the police say that
sometimes to justify going after
someone? Or the only way they
resemble the suspect is the colour
of their skin.
If the police are
undertaking stop and search and they
don't have a good reason, that is
wrong. It is important to have the
right intelligence because as you
seen tonight, not just in London but
across in another Wales, violence
and knife crime is increasing which
is why we have said to communities,
work with us and give us
intelligence so we can target those
young people and adults who are
carrying knives, and for whatever
reason it is, some of them
perpetrating violence and when
things get out of hand, people get
seriously injured or murdered.
So the contention is, and you and
the mayor believe this, stop and
search does help in the fight
against knife crime?
It is only one
of the tools involved in tackling
knife crime. One of the enforcement
powers the police have, and they are
doing lots of other work on the
street and in communities, but that
is just one part, enforcement, and
actually towards the end of your
film the young people really did
start to talk about what needs to be
done to tackle knife crime and that
is absolutely what we're doing from
the mayor's office, and the
Metropolitan Police, putting in
place the measures working with
schools, families and communities,
but the real problem, and you picked
out one figure, £22 million coming
out of London. That is just one
figure. We have money coming out of
schools, head of mental health
services, and only this weekend we
saw other survey where headteachers
were saying they couldn't get the
mental health support young people
need. We know if you really want to
tackle knife crime, yes, stop and
search, effectively and
professionally done, but also you
need to have investment in services
that are really going to support
young people, and that needs the
Government to step up and invest.
am interested in one thing, though.
Scotland I think had no knife deaths
of young people last year. London
was a very different picture. What
Scotland doing that London isn't
doing, and by? Sorry, Scotland,
going back some years, but why is it
working in Scotland and why not in
We are looking at Scotland
and have learned the lessons there,
many of the things as part of that
strategy in investing in mental
health services, putting youth
workers into A&E departments, but
one of the key things they have done
in Scotland is invested in services,
in services for young people, mental
health services and work in schools,
and it really is very difficult to
really do that, the wide strategy of
public health they are doing in
Scotland, if we don't have the
investment from the Government who
are cutting the crucial services...
So your point is it is the central
Government cuts, to your budgets,
that are going to be responsible for
the difference between London and
Scotland in the performance on this
really significant measure?
central Government cuts to local
authority budgets or the NHS
budgets, obviously 32 local
authorities in London, they are
making it very difficult to
effectively tackle knife crime. The
police can only do so much. As we
all know they are the enforcement
part. We need and we are investing
the mayor's office, in new services,
mental health services, but compared
to the money taken out by central
Government, it just isn't enough.
Sophie Linden, thank you very much
The Charity Commission has opened
an inquiry into Oxfam this evening
in the wake of the scandal
of misconduct in Haiti -
a scandal that is not going away.
The charity's chief executive,
Mark Goldring, went to meet
the International Development
Secretary Penny Mordaunt today.
There was an apology to her,
and there was also a resignation.
Not Mr Goldring himself -
he only started at Oxfam in 2013,
sometime after the misconduct
was inadequately dealt with.
But his deputy resigned today.
Penny Lawrence was international
programmes director at the time
and said she was ashamed
of what had been exposed.
What about Oxfam's
foot soldiers, though?
And its customers?
Here are some voices from Reading.
It sounds like bad behaviour
of a few people, but charities
generally do a lot of good work,
Yeah, it wouldn't put me off.
I'm long-term unemployed due
to ill-health, and I'm grateful
for being able to volunteer
for charities as well.
I mean, I like the idea that I'm
contributing towards something
which hopefully does a lot of good.
Do know what I mean,
they're making out they're whiter
than white, doing nice jobs,
getting a nice wage packet,
and they're just taking the Mickey
out of everyone that puts
all the money in the
bucket, aren't they?
So really they should go
to court, shouldn't they?
Using the Oxfam shop,
or donating, as I've just done,
it wouldn't make me feel any
different to do that,
but if I was going to give
substantial amounts of money
I would probably think more
carefully about what I'm
putting my money into,
and asking a few more questions
about what it is they're doing
and where that money
is being invested.
If people are going there
they should be doing what they're
meant to, not just...
They're not on holiday, are they?
Somebody in a position of,
you know, responsibility,
and a position of power,
who is actually going out
there to help, you know,
deal with a crisis, shouldn't be
using and taking advantage
of those who are obviously
being made homeless,
being made vulnerable, have
potentially lost family members.
You know, it's just
It's not very nice at all.
Some voices from Reading there.
In fairness to Oxfam, it is not
alone in having failed to deal
with sexual misconduct properly.
In fact, it's not easy to think
of an organisation that has dealt
with a scandal of that
kind very well.
Something seems to get in the way
of full openness and transparency.
Penny Lawrence, the Oxfam deputy
director who resigned today,
says in her biography
on the charity's website,
"I am a passionate advocate
of women's rights."
There is no reason
to disbelieve that,
but clearly something
inhibited her publicly calling out
bad behaviour towards women
in her own organisation.
So let's think about transparency -
why it is so hard to be open,
and how far it should be expected?
I'm joined by crisis
Robin Swinbank, and founder
of the Charities Advisory
Trust, Dame Hilary Blume.
A very good evening to you both.
Hilary Blume, why do you think
people find it so hard to be
transparent? They haven't done
anything wrong, the people in
headquarters. Why don't they just
want to quieten -- why do they want
to quieten it all down and not
exposed to people like the regulator
what has been going on?
Are not as
complacent as you about it. I think
they should be ashamed of themselves
-- I am not as complacent. The
problem we are talking about,
transparency, it is not what the
problem is. The problem really is
what was Oxfam doing sending people
from Western Europe into a situation
where the didn't have... Nobody had
any control over them, they were
answerable to nobody, and they were
having an appalling time in the
sense that they weren't helping the
people, and they brought the whole
upper and into disrepute. Now, if
you see your charity as an operation
to raise money, and you think that
what you are doing is about money,
then you would want to keep very
quiet about it. What we should be
talking about is why they were
sending people from outside with no
democratic control over them, why
were they doing that in the first
You really raising a very big
point going much wider than sexual
misconduct at Oxfam, which is the
whole model of aid often as you send
foreigners in to try and help the
locals, that is what aid mostly is,
isn't it? You like that is how it
was in 1950. I don't think we should
proceed on the same basis --
that is how it was in 1950. When
Ghana became independent there were
not that many graduates in the
country but now we are watching
their doctors and nurses, so there
are people there who are qualified
and the real problem is there is
nobody controlling these outside
We go in not really
accountable to government...
who are they accountable to?
Swinbank, I am interested in this
issue of transparency, to get back
to that. What do you think the
obstacle is? So often, you think,
why did you do that? It was
obviously going to come out at some
I think is the time pressure
involved and being able to
articulate your story from your
prospective in a very brief and
clear way. You are under immense
under immense pressure, immense
scrutiny, and you are likely to get
a kicking from your key
stakeholders, the media, the public,
But is it not possible to look good?
You have to sanction this conduct
scandal and one of your projects...
You see, we have on this, uncovered
it and we have dealt with it. Does
that leave everybody feeling very
queasy or do they think, it is an
efficient organisation? We know that
things go wrong in organisations all
the time. We are not embarrassed to
say that things have gone wrong.
think the general public or of that
view, that things can be forgiven,
but in the media, with the story
breaking, something has gone wrong,
and you are going to be judged for
the thing that has gone wrong. It is
how you move forward from that
position, how you defend it and how
you articulate it in a way that is
convincing in a short space of time,
and that is very challenging from a
Is it the
case that all the other aid
charities, with models very similar
to Oxfam's, they must be looking
through their back catalogue and
saying, OMG, what have we got?
don't think they will look through
Whistle-blower might now bring
it forward and you will look much
better to have exposed it yourself
than to let someone asked...
think you will look terrible doing
it, and I think it is intrinsic,
particularly in disaster situations,
that you will get these abuses,
because think about it. People have
nothing. Somebody comes in, and
they've got food and they've got
supplies, and they've got
possibilities for you. And you have
three hungry children at home, and
you're still quite pretty. Won't you
therefore expose yourself and try to
get the best for your children? It
puts you in a terrible position, and
the real problem is that so much of
this parachuting people into the
situations makes it difficult. If
you gave it to the local corrupt
organisations, at least the public
there would know that they were
It is a fascinating
They would have to have,
they would have some control over
them. One of the most interesting
examples of aid is that in an
African country, and I wish I could
remember which one, they put up
signs on the schools saying this
school gets this amount of money
from the government, and it was a
real revelation to the people, and
they said, OK, that is enough for
more teachers and why haven't we got
the textbooks? If you give people
information they have some power.
Well, transparency was our original
topic and you are making the point
more general than that. Robin
Swinbank, what is your advice to all
the other charities now?
Well, I think it is a collective
problem, because it will damage the
voluntary sector, undoubtedly.
Confidence will be damaged in the
giving aspect of that. People will
be wary of it.
You have given advice
on crisis management, with handling
these things. What is the sort of
goal to advise at this point?
absolutely to have the position that
the crisis is both a threat and an
opportunity and the vision must be
to be in a better place at the end
of it than you were before the
I don't see the
opportunity. Do you mean to sort out
sort out how you are structured,
what your policies and procedures
are, how robust the art, and how
will you communicate your beliefs
and your values to all you stay
called as -- how robust they are.
There has been a
further development in that Helen
Evans, who was actually in charge of
monitoring these events, has just
spoken out and said, all her
approaches were ignored by Oxfam. I
think that one is a hard one to
This is obviously going to
run on for days. Thank you both very
Now, we will take a
pause. For Viewsnight. Polly has her
say about workers' writes in the
so-called gig economy.
That was poorly's Viewsnight there.
That was Polly's Viewsnight there.
South Africa really
is on the cusp of regime change
of a significant kind.
Jacob Zuma is on the way out.
According to the broadscaster
SABC, he has been given
48 hours to resign.
For the best part of a week now,
he's been clinging on.
His heir apparent, Cyril Ramaphosa,
has spent days trying
to persuade him to stand aside.
That didn't seem to work, so today,
it was the ANC's National Executive
Committee's turn -
that met for six hours,
but it didn't quite
agree to dislodge him.
But everyone now assumes he will be
deposed, and South Africa will get
a second chance to launch itself
as a well-run African country.
For quite a few years now
there has been popular
discontent at President Zuma.
Here, as long as go as 2013,
he was being booed at
Nelson Mandela's memorial service.
A sense that the man
was better at looking
after himself than his country.
He became president in 2009
after rising to the top
of the ANC two years before.
You could just dismiss him as a bad
president - that can
happen in any country.
But there have to be big
questions for the ANC,
which selected Zuma,
despite some massive questions
that predated his rise
to president of the party.
He was charged with
raping an HIV-positive
family friend in 2005.
Although he was acquitted,
he told the court that in order
to avoid catching HIV he had
showered, a claim
that was much derided.
But more significantly,
Mr Zuma had been deputy president
under President Thabo Mbeki
but was sacked on allegations
of money-laundering and racketeer.
It would be best to release
honourable Jacob Zuma
from his responsibilities as deputy
president of the republic
and member of the Cabinet.
Charges that have
refused to go away.
Was there any due diligence
by the ANC at the time?
Did anyone care?
Well, there's no doubt Mr Zuma has
enjoyed strong support among some
members of the public,
particularly in his home
province of KwaZulu-Natal.
He has a populist appeal.
From a poor start, he portrays
himself as a man of the people.
When the going was getting tough
last year he made a populist gesture
of suggesting white land might be
expropriated without compensation.
For him, the future may involve
some legal problems.
For South Africa, the question
is whether the ANC has
learned its lesson and will pick
more carefully in future.
For now, everyone thinks Zuma's
replacement, Cyril Ramaphosa,
is a big improvement,
but can he really turn
the country round?
Verashni Pillay is head
of digital at the Johannesburg
radio station Power FM,
she's the former Editor-in-Chief
of HuffPost South Africa
and the Mail & Guardian.
I asked her whether President Jacob
Zuma could expect a soft deal
similar to the one Robert Mugabe got
in order to get him out of office?
This is the raging debate happening
right now in South Africa,
and I have to say that
South Africans are a lot less
forgiving than Zimbabweans appear
to be around their president leaving
So right now there's all sorts
of speculation in the media around
the kind of deal that is being cut
within the ruling party to get
the president to leave.
From what the reports are saying
and the sources that
are sort of leaking,
it seems he is very reluctant to go
and wants some sort of protection.
However, it would make
the new president very unpopular
to give him any kind of blanket
amnesty, so while there have been
reports of various deals
nothing has been confirmed.
However, if the opposition party
takes it into their own hands to do
some sort of vote of no-confidence
in the president, and are finally
successful with that, you know,
he has no bargaining power,
and will leave with no benefits
for the rest of his life.
He has a terrible press
here and he has a pretty bad
press in South Africa.
I just wonder if you could
explain his popular appeal
because there are plenty of people
who rather love Jacob Zuma, right?
I think especially at
the beginning of his presidency
he was very well loved.
I mean, he managed to do
the unthinkable and get
a sitting president recalled.
So he was very popular
in the beginning.
And he particularly had
a very grass-roots appeal,
particularly in his native province,
KwaZulu-Natal, and it's said that
within the rural areas
he was considered very popular too,
because the previous president,
Thabo Mbeki, was seen as very
detached and very sort
of intellectual and cold,
and Zuma was seen as
a friendly, charming person.
He is said to be very
charming in person.
But he has frittered away that
goodwill and it's very hard to find
real supporters of Zuma,
even in his former strongholds
it's very difficult
to find supporters now.
There were a lot of signs
of the things that have turned out
to be problematic about Zuma.
Some of those signs were there
before the man took office
and I just wonder whether,
you know, everyone loves
Cyril Ramaphosa, but do you think,
looking ahead, that the ANC
will pick candidates responsibly?
If they get a second chance.
I mean, let's be honest,
the ANC's fate at the polls is dire.
Their share of the vote has
been rapidly declining
over every election.
We have very trustworthy elections.
Hopefully they will take this
as a lesson and clean-up their house
in the party so people will give
them the chance when it
comes around again.
How excited are you by
a change in administration?
It seems like quite a significant
change of direction.
For me, purely from a political
point of view, what is happening
right now is a spring.
There is no other way to put it,
everyone is calling it an absolute
spring that's happening in South
Not only do we have new leadership
but we have strong words and action
being taken around accountability.
Not all just emanating
Coming from our parliament,
our civil society, everyone has
really pulled together to say,
you know what, we aren't
going to let it slide,
we're demanding accountability.
All the corrupt deals we've been
reading about for years,
and it's showing we're
making a U-turn.
We were very close to going off
the precipice where corruption
would have become entrenched
and I feel like we're coming
back from that cliff.
Exciting times, thank you so much,
thanks for talking to us.
We hoped to speak to Peter Hain who
is in South Africa at the moment but
I don't think we can so we may have
some time to look at the papers.
Fascinating how something like the
Oxfam crisis escalates, starting on
Friday in the Times. The Guardian
leading on that, Oxfam deputy leader
quitting. Catching up on today's
news. The Guardian saying Oxfam
could lose 29 million in European
funding because of the handling of
the misconduct scandal. In a column,
the Oxfam sex story is effect and so
is the war on foreign aid. The Daily
Telegraph also leading on the
subject, Oxfam workers offered aid
for sex. Whistle-blower claims rape
overseas and abuse in charity shops
were ignored, that was Helen Evans,
who we heard about, she's a spoken
on Channel 4. A full-blown crisis
for Oxfam. That's it from us. We're
going to leave you with the voice of
Katie Couric on NBC. We all
occasionally say stupid things but
her observations about the
Netherlands speed skating team, they
appear not to be based entirely on
fact, much to the amusement of the
Next is the Netherlands.
It's probably not a newsflash
to tell you the Dutch are really,
really good at speed skating.
All but five of the 110 medals
they've won have been
on the speed skating oval.
Now, why are they so good,
you may be asking yourselves?
Because skating is an important mode
of transportation in a city
like Amsterdam which sits
at sea level.
As you all know, it has
lots of canals which can
freeze in the winter.
For as long as those
canals have existed,
With Evan Davis.
Young black men talk about stop and search, the Charity Commission launches an inquiry into Oxfam in Haiti, and South Africa prepares for a new president.