Browse content similar to 14/02/2018. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
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The usual form is that the Northern
Irish parties have the occasional | 0:00:06 | 0:00:09 | |
lengthy sulk but then make up
and get on with running | 0:00:09 | 0:00:12 | |
the country again. | 0:00:12 | 0:00:13 | |
This time it's just the sulk. | 0:00:13 | 0:00:20 | |
The position of the UK Government
remains the same, devolved | 0:00:20 | 0:00:24 | |
government is in the best interest
of everyone in Northern Ireland and | 0:00:24 | 0:00:28 | |
is best for the union. | 0:00:28 | 0:00:29 | |
is best for the union. | 0:00:29 | 0:00:31 | |
For the Northern Ireland secretary, | 0:00:31 | 0:00:32 | |
it's a Valentine's day headache. | 0:00:32 | 0:00:34 | |
We'll ask the DUP whether
they are embarrassed | 0:00:34 | 0:00:36 | |
at the inability of their region
to look after itself. | 0:00:36 | 0:00:40 | |
Oxfam loses another star,
Senegalese musician Baaba Maal told | 0:00:40 | 0:00:44 | |
us tonight he's withdrawing
as an ambassador for the charity. | 0:00:44 | 0:00:49 | |
The charity's former Nigeria
country manager tells | 0:00:49 | 0:00:52 | |
us her own experiences
of working there. | 0:00:52 | 0:00:58 | |
And I thought that I would be
protected. I thought I would be | 0:00:58 | 0:01:03 | |
safeguarded from sexual harassment
and from sexual abuse. | 0:01:03 | 0:01:05 | |
and from sexual abuse. | 0:01:05 | 0:01:06 | |
And why don't women dominate
in subjects like science and maths? | 0:01:06 | 0:01:09 | |
Is it because they're
just not interested? | 0:01:09 | 0:01:11 | |
People have long thought that
the more gender equal a country, | 0:01:11 | 0:01:14 | |
the more similar men and women
will become in their interests | 0:01:14 | 0:01:17 | |
and occupational choices. | 0:01:17 | 0:01:20 | |
We find the opposite. | 0:01:20 | 0:01:23 | |
We'll hear both sides
of the argument. | 0:01:23 | 0:01:31 | |
Hello, it's taken 13 months now
for the two main parties | 0:01:33 | 0:01:36 | |
in Northern Ireland to fail
to form a government. | 0:01:36 | 0:01:39 | |
At least until today they were
working on trying to create one. | 0:01:39 | 0:01:41 | |
Remember, the Prime Minister went
to Belfast on Monday | 0:01:41 | 0:01:44 | |
with the Irish Taiseach,
Leo Varadker, in the hope a deal | 0:01:44 | 0:01:46 | |
was about to be born. | 0:01:46 | 0:01:48 | |
But this afternoon,
the talks collapsed. | 0:01:48 | 0:01:51 | |
Sinn Fein and the DUP
blame each other. | 0:01:51 | 0:01:53 | |
The sticking point was an argument
over official recognition | 0:01:53 | 0:01:56 | |
of the Irish language. | 0:01:56 | 0:01:59 | |
Now, let's be clear,
that part of the UK is ungoverned | 0:01:59 | 0:02:07 | |
right now and that it happens to be
the same part that is at the most | 0:02:08 | 0:02:14 | |
fraught border of the whole Brexit
argument, is one massive | 0:02:14 | 0:02:17 | |
headache for the British government. | 0:02:17 | 0:02:18 | |
And making it all the more difficult
is the fact that the UK government | 0:02:18 | 0:02:21 | |
is sustained in parliament
by the DUP. | 0:02:21 | 0:02:23 | |
Two questions: how did we get here,
and what happens now? | 0:02:23 | 0:02:30 | |
A year is a long time in politics
and sell them in the 13 months that | 0:02:30 | 0:02:36 | |
storm has stood empty has the
prospect for devolved government in | 0:02:36 | 0:02:42 | |
Northern Ireland seem bleaker. Today
the DUP pulled the plug on the | 0:02:42 | 0:02:45 | |
latest round of talks, but crucially
for the first time they appeared to | 0:02:45 | 0:02:50 | |
call for the imposition of direct
rule. As a result of our inability | 0:02:50 | 0:02:55 | |
at this stage to reform an
executive, it is incumbent upon her | 0:02:55 | 0:02:59 | |
Majesty's government to step in and
come forward with a budget and start | 0:02:59 | 0:03:03 | |
taking some key decisions around
health, education and infrastructure | 0:03:03 | 0:03:08 | |
and taking decisions in those
matters that really mattered to the | 0:03:08 | 0:03:13 | |
people of Northern Ireland. Perhaps
unsurprisingly Sinn Fein put the | 0:03:13 | 0:03:15 | |
blame on the DUP. The DUP leadership
has failed to come forward and close | 0:03:15 | 0:03:21 | |
on the issues where we found an
accommodation. These issues will not | 0:03:21 | 0:03:25 | |
go away. We are engaged with both
governments and over the course of | 0:03:25 | 0:03:31 | |
tomorrow we will set out more
positive response in relation to | 0:03:31 | 0:03:35 | |
where we go from here. The stumbling
block is ever was the thorny issue | 0:03:35 | 0:03:39 | |
of the Irish language. We have seen
deadlines come and go this year, but | 0:03:39 | 0:03:44 | |
could this really be the end the
line? | 0:03:44 | 0:03:50 | |
line? In January 2017, the late
Martin McGuinness stood down as | 0:03:51 | 0:03:54 | |
Deputy First Minister in protest at
the handling of a controversial | 0:03:54 | 0:03:59 | |
renewable heating scheme. The
Stormont government collapsed and | 0:03:59 | 0:04:02 | |
still has not returned. A second
election in two years failed to | 0:04:02 | 0:04:06 | |
break the deadlock and talks between
Sinn Fein and the DUP failed again | 0:04:06 | 0:04:11 | |
and again. Fast forward to 2018 and
hopes of a deal looked brighter. | 0:04:11 | 0:04:17 | |
Theresa May even visited Belfast
this week to push things over the | 0:04:17 | 0:04:20 | |
line. No such luck. But as civil
servants have warned that pressing | 0:04:20 | 0:04:25 | |
budget decisions need to be made,
the restoration of democratic | 0:04:25 | 0:04:31 | |
accountability is becoming critical.
All sides reaffirmed their | 0:04:31 | 0:04:37 | |
commitment to the principles of
devolution. But direct rule seems | 0:04:37 | 0:04:41 | |
more likely now than at any stage in
the last decade. A return to direct | 0:04:41 | 0:04:47 | |
rule presents a number of
challenges. For one thing, there are | 0:04:47 | 0:04:51 | |
serious concerns about the
constitutional readiness of the | 0:04:51 | 0:04:55 | |
Northern Ireland Office in the
treasury behind me to handle the | 0:04:55 | 0:04:59 | |
logistical challenge of running
Northern Ireland from Whitehall. It | 0:04:59 | 0:05:03 | |
employs around 150 people for
example. Second, in a Parliamentary | 0:05:03 | 0:05:09 | |
timetable that is full to bursting
with Brexit legislation it is not | 0:05:09 | 0:05:13 | |
clear how the necessary space will
be made for running Northern Ireland | 0:05:13 | 0:05:16 | |
from Westminster. Direct rule from
Westminster has happened before, but | 0:05:16 | 0:05:21 | |
not quite like this. Never before
have we had a British Government | 0:05:21 | 0:05:26 | |
that is beholden to the DUP. The
nationalist parties, Sinn Fein and | 0:05:26 | 0:05:32 | |
the SDLP, will be aware of that and
they were really want to find some | 0:05:32 | 0:05:38 | |
ways of mitigating that DUP
influence in joint authority or some | 0:05:38 | 0:05:42 | |
form of joint authority between the
British and Irish governments is | 0:05:42 | 0:05:45 | |
something they will push forward to
mitigate that DUP influence at | 0:05:45 | 0:05:51 | |
Westminster. The institutions of the
Good Friday Agreement provides for | 0:05:51 | 0:05:54 | |
at least one form of joint
authority, that is clear. The | 0:05:54 | 0:05:58 | |
prospect of ever getting an
executive up and running again in | 0:05:58 | 0:06:01 | |
Stormont is much less so. | 0:06:01 | 0:06:03 | |
Stormont is much less so. | 0:06:05 | 0:06:06 | |
We'll speak to the DUP in a moment,
but first I'm joined from Belfast | 0:06:06 | 0:06:10 | |
by Ciaran Mac Gilla Vine -
he's from the campaign group con-roo | 0:06:10 | 0:06:12 | |
na gaeligah which advocates
for the Irish Language. | 0:06:12 | 0:06:15 | |
Good evening. Can you explain to us
what the issue is about an Irish | 0:06:15 | 0:06:21 | |
language at, what would be in it and
what difference it would make? In | 0:06:21 | 0:06:27 | |
2006 in the International Saint
Andrews agreement but the British | 0:06:27 | 0:06:29 | |
and Irish governments committed to
introducing an Irish language act, | 0:06:29 | 0:06:36 | |
essentially affording Irish speaking
citizens hear the same rights that | 0:06:36 | 0:06:39 | |
the speakers of Welsh in Wales get
for instance. Since then the DUP use | 0:06:39 | 0:06:44 | |
their veto and their power to
prevent this and at the same time | 0:06:44 | 0:06:49 | |
took a number of progressive
measures against the Irish language. | 0:06:49 | 0:06:54 | |
Most recently they blocked a scheme
which supported disadvantaged young | 0:06:54 | 0:07:00 | |
people and this brought the issue
and compounded the issue of the | 0:07:00 | 0:07:04 | |
absence of rights for the Irish
here. In practical terms what would | 0:07:04 | 0:07:11 | |
the act have in it that would
legislate or mandate or prohibit? | 0:07:11 | 0:07:17 | |
What would it actually do that you
cannot do now? The basic elements of | 0:07:17 | 0:07:22 | |
the act that we have been calling
for, based on best international | 0:07:22 | 0:07:28 | |
practice, would be things like
official status for the language, | 0:07:28 | 0:07:32 | |
currently the language has no
official status. We want an | 0:07:32 | 0:07:35 | |
independent commissioner to remove
the language from that atmosphere at | 0:07:35 | 0:07:41 | |
Stormont. We want more visibility
for the language through signage on | 0:07:41 | 0:07:47 | |
our roads and on public buildings.
Basic measures that are afforded | 0:07:47 | 0:07:53 | |
across other regions in the UK and
afforded to Irish citizens in the | 0:07:53 | 0:07:58 | |
south, but which the DUP have
steadfastly refused to allow here. | 0:07:58 | 0:08:02 | |
Is there anything you could offer in
return? Arlene Foster said respect | 0:08:02 | 0:08:08 | |
for the union and British identity
has to be in doubt, it cannot be a | 0:08:08 | 0:08:12 | |
one-way street. Is there any trait
to be done there? Clearly they have | 0:08:12 | 0:08:18 | |
tried and failed, but is there
anything you could think that you | 0:08:18 | 0:08:21 | |
could offer that would satisfy her?
I am not offering anything, I am | 0:08:21 | 0:08:28 | |
just advocating for the Irish
language. But it was made in the | 0:08:28 | 0:08:34 | |
Saint Andrews agreement, the very
firm commitment around the Irish | 0:08:34 | 0:08:37 | |
language and that was already made
in 2006. What we need is | 0:08:37 | 0:08:42 | |
implementation of that deal. We need
citizens here to be afforded rights | 0:08:42 | 0:08:46 | |
and the DUP about this very strongly
as the UK and how we are in tune | 0:08:46 | 0:08:51 | |
with the rest of the UK, but when it
comes to different speakers of the | 0:08:51 | 0:08:56 | |
language, there is a marked
difference on how they are treated | 0:08:56 | 0:08:59 | |
and that cannot continue and there
will not be another assembly here | 0:08:59 | 0:09:04 | |
that facilitate the discrimination
against Irish speakers. Largely as a | 0:09:04 | 0:09:08 | |
society here, they look at the case
of Irish speakers as a litmus test | 0:09:08 | 0:09:15 | |
to see how serious the DUP are about
our future. Let's stop to the DUP. | 0:09:15 | 0:09:22 | |
Let's stop to the DUP. | 0:09:22 | 0:09:23 | |
Joining me now from Londonderry
is Gregory Campbell, | 0:09:23 | 0:09:25 | |
DUP MP for East Londonderry
and member of the Northern Ireland | 0:09:25 | 0:09:27 | |
Affairs Select Committee. | 0:09:27 | 0:09:29 | |
Good evening. Good evening. Is he
right when he says it is an agreed | 0:09:29 | 0:09:37 | |
principle that there will be an
Irish language act. It was in the St | 0:09:37 | 0:09:41 | |
Andrews agreement in 2006 and it has
not happened? What happened was the | 0:09:41 | 0:09:47 | |
UK Government as part of a side deal
with Sinn Fein agreed there should | 0:09:47 | 0:09:53 | |
be one but it would be a matter for
the devolved institution to | 0:09:53 | 0:09:58 | |
establish how that might work. What
has happened in the intervening ten | 0:09:58 | 0:10:03 | |
or 12 years, and this is where the
previous speaker I'm afraid apart | 0:10:03 | 0:10:08 | |
from outlining a very prejudiced
view was totally inaccurate, not | 0:10:08 | 0:10:12 | |
only is the Irish language not
disadvantaged, tens of millions of | 0:10:12 | 0:10:18 | |
resources are lavished on the Irish
language. In fact, if you look at | 0:10:18 | 0:10:22 | |
the whole series of minority
languages in Northern Ireland, more | 0:10:22 | 0:10:26 | |
money is put into the promotion of
Irish and all the other language is | 0:10:26 | 0:10:29 | |
put together. There are Irish
language schools open aplenty. I am | 0:10:29 | 0:10:35 | |
sorry, I do not want to get into the
argument about it, was it agreed | 0:10:35 | 0:10:40 | |
there would be an Irish language
act? It seems the British Government | 0:10:40 | 0:10:44 | |
did agree to that and the British
Government is now likely to take | 0:10:44 | 0:10:48 | |
control so you would have no
objection to the British Government | 0:10:48 | 0:10:53 | |
meeting its obligation to give them
an Irish language act? What we need | 0:10:53 | 0:10:58 | |
to do is look at this in terms of an
agreement to get political | 0:10:58 | 0:11:01 | |
consensus. I thought it was done in
the St Andrews agreement, a | 0:11:01 | 0:11:07 | |
provision for an Irish language act?
If you signed it, you have to | 0:11:07 | 0:11:11 | |
deliver it, right? We were asked to
give our consent to get, we were not | 0:11:11 | 0:11:21 | |
asked, that was not great. But the
British Government has an | 0:11:21 | 0:11:26 | |
international obligation to deliver
an Irish language act. If the | 0:11:26 | 0:11:30 | |
British Government takes direct rule
and imposes an Irish language act, | 0:11:30 | 0:11:35 | |
what will you do? Will that be a
problem? Of course it would be a | 0:11:35 | 0:11:39 | |
problem because it would further
advantage the Irish language over | 0:11:39 | 0:11:42 | |
and above where we stand at the
moment. It is advantageous position | 0:11:42 | 0:11:47 | |
would be increased even more. The
problem is not the Irish language, | 0:11:47 | 0:11:52 | |
it is the politicisation of that
language. No one in Wales and | 0:11:52 | 0:11:57 | |
Scotland who uses Gallic uses it as
a political weapon to attack | 0:11:57 | 0:12:01 | |
Scotland and Wales from the UK, but
that is what happens here. Would you | 0:12:01 | 0:12:06 | |
bring the British Government down if
they said, by the way, we are going | 0:12:06 | 0:12:12 | |
to give them an Irish language act?
Would you bring Theresa May's | 0:12:12 | 0:12:19 | |
government down because you are
holding her up at the moment? It is | 0:12:19 | 0:12:22 | |
not an issue to bring governments
down, what we want to do is | 0:12:22 | 0:12:26 | |
re-establish one that we have not
got the moment. We can only do that | 0:12:26 | 0:12:31 | |
if people move forward on the basis
of some form of consensus, so we win | 0:12:31 | 0:12:39 | |
and Sinn Fein wins, unionism wins
and nationalism wins. If the British | 0:12:39 | 0:12:48 | |
Government says we have taken direct
control and everywhere in the UK has | 0:12:48 | 0:12:51 | |
same-sex marriage, you would not
mind? You would not bring the | 0:12:51 | 0:12:56 | |
government down if they said that on
day one they would have same-sex | 0:12:56 | 0:12:59 | |
marriage in Northern Ireland? Well,
you see, if we went down that route | 0:12:59 | 0:13:05 | |
we would put forward a series of
other proposals we would ask from | 0:13:05 | 0:13:09 | |
the government. It is not
advantageous to talk about if our | 0:13:09 | 0:13:13 | |
government in London were to say,
you is what we plan to do, A, B, C, | 0:13:13 | 0:13:21 | |
and offend everybody in the course
of that. You are not running | 0:13:21 | 0:13:25 | |
Northern Ireland, you have stepped
away, no one in Northern Ireland is | 0:13:25 | 0:13:29 | |
running it. You have suggested that
the British Government run Northern | 0:13:29 | 0:13:33 | |
Ireland, so why shouldn't they run
it like the rest of Britain? | 0:13:33 | 0:13:38 | |
Same-sex marriage everywhere, why
should they not do that in Northern | 0:13:38 | 0:13:40 | |
Ireland if you want them to run it?
Do you want them to run it on your | 0:13:40 | 0:13:45 | |
terms? What we want to do, all of
these matters, whether it is Irish | 0:13:45 | 0:13:52 | |
language or same-sex marriage, we
want to work at trying to resolve | 0:13:52 | 0:13:55 | |
them within the context of the
Stormont institutions, the devolved | 0:13:55 | 0:14:00 | |
institutions. We are not leaving
those things out and saying they | 0:14:00 | 0:14:04 | |
will never happen, we are saying we
are not prepared to jeopardise the | 0:14:04 | 0:14:07 | |
government in Northern Ireland on
the altar of some sort of | 0:14:07 | 0:14:13 | |
precondition which is we will only
operate the government if we get all | 0:14:13 | 0:14:16 | |
these things. That is a recipe for a
zero-sum game and we cannot do that. | 0:14:16 | 0:14:21 | |
We have got to get a government up
and running and we will sort those | 0:14:21 | 0:14:26 | |
issues out across the divide and
reach some sort of accommodation | 0:14:26 | 0:14:29 | |
that everyone can live with. Thank
so much. | 0:14:29 | 0:14:37 | |
Oxfam has lost another ambassador
tonight amid the scandal which has | 0:14:37 | 0:14:40 | |
engulfed the charity. | 0:14:40 | 0:14:42 | |
Last night it was Minnie
Driver who stepped away. | 0:14:42 | 0:14:43 | |
Now the well-known Senegalese
musician Baaba Maal has told | 0:14:43 | 0:14:45 | |
Newsnight he's breaking his link
to the organisation. | 0:14:45 | 0:14:47 | |
Mr Maal had been a global ambassador
for Oxfam since 2012 | 0:14:47 | 0:14:52 | |
but in a statement he told this
programme, "What has | 0:14:52 | 0:14:54 | |
happened on a human level
is disgusting and heart breaking. | 0:14:54 | 0:14:57 | |
It is very sad. | 0:14:57 | 0:14:58 | |
Vulnerable people,
especially children, | 0:14:58 | 0:14:59 | |
should always be protected. | 0:14:59 | 0:15:00 | |
As such I am disassociating myself
from Oxfam immediately". | 0:15:00 | 0:15:08 | |
Meanwhile, more continues to emerge
about Oxfam and other NGOs. | 0:15:08 | 0:15:10 | |
It's the familiar phenomenon
of the dam bursting - | 0:15:10 | 0:15:13 | |
one accusation breaks
through at first, leading | 0:15:13 | 0:15:15 | |
to a flood thereafter. | 0:15:15 | 0:15:17 | |
Tonight we bring you separate
testimony from two former aid | 0:15:17 | 0:15:20 | |
workers who together raise
new questions about | 0:15:20 | 0:15:21 | |
the crisis in the sector. | 0:15:21 | 0:15:25 | |
We'll start with Lesley Agams,
who worked as Oxfam's country | 0:15:25 | 0:15:27 | |
director in Nigeria,
and who claims she was sexually | 0:15:27 | 0:15:33 | |
assaulted by a more senior manager
while on an official gathering | 0:15:33 | 0:15:36 | |
in Oxford in 2010. | 0:15:36 | 0:15:40 | |
She informally reported what had
happened and tried to secure | 0:15:40 | 0:15:45 | |
an apology only to find herself
sacked from the charity | 0:15:45 | 0:15:47 | |
a few months later. | 0:15:47 | 0:15:49 | |
I spoke to Lesley Agams from Abuja
earlier this evening, | 0:15:49 | 0:15:51 | |
starting with what had happened
on that night in Oxford in 2010. | 0:15:51 | 0:15:59 | |
Myself and other country directors
from West Africa, we have been | 0:16:04 | 0:16:07 | |
sitting with him, just talking shop.
He kept on referring to a document | 0:16:07 | 0:16:11 | |
that he wanted me to see. I wasn't
sure what it was and he kept on | 0:16:11 | 0:16:15 | |
saying he would want me to go pick
it up when we go up stairs. I went. | 0:16:15 | 0:16:30 | |
At the time I only hesitated for one
reason. I did not want to be seen in | 0:16:30 | 0:16:34 | |
his room or stay too long in his
room because I did not want any kind | 0:16:34 | 0:16:39 | |
of, anything which might impinge on
my on my professional capacity. But | 0:16:39 | 0:16:45 | |
I went anyway to pick up the
document, I thought it would be a | 0:16:45 | 0:16:49 | |
brief visit. We got to his room and
he showed me what I discovered was a | 0:16:49 | 0:16:54 | |
concept map. I said OK, let's
discuss it on Monday, the next day. | 0:16:54 | 0:16:58 | |
As I was leaving the room and about
to go out the door he grabbed me. | 0:16:58 | 0:17:05 | |
And he assaulted me. I managed to
get out of his grip and rise of the | 0:17:05 | 0:17:11 | |
hotel room. I am sorry to make you
recount that. Let's pick up the | 0:17:11 | 0:17:17 | |
story after, you did tell Oxfam, you
told somebody there, you did not | 0:17:17 | 0:17:24 | |
make a formal complaint at that
point, you thought you would try to | 0:17:24 | 0:17:27 | |
deal with it by extracting an
apology and a guarantee it would not | 0:17:27 | 0:17:30 | |
happen again, did not want to make a
formal complaint did you? I need to | 0:17:30 | 0:17:36 | |
give some context, I mean, why did
you not report is the question every | 0:17:36 | 0:17:40 | |
victim and survivor of violence
against women always asked. I was | 0:17:40 | 0:17:43 | |
aware I was working in actual
environment. Even at our regional | 0:17:43 | 0:17:49 | |
headquarters there was a casual sex
going on. At the time this incident | 0:17:49 | 0:17:55 | |
happened -- a casual sexism going
on. At the time of this incident, I | 0:17:55 | 0:18:00 | |
felt even if my abuser was punished
I would not be able to work in West | 0:18:00 | 0:18:06 | |
Africa. As for an apology it was a
suggestion of the human resources | 0:18:06 | 0:18:13 | |
person I spoke to, that I was
reporting this incident to at Oxfam. | 0:18:13 | 0:18:22 | |
Her first question was if I had had
an affair with him. It was not until | 0:18:22 | 0:18:26 | |
later it had occurred to me that for
her to ask that question major did | 0:18:26 | 0:18:30 | |
not believe what I was saying in the
first place. Perhaps the most | 0:18:30 | 0:18:35 | |
extraordinary part of the story is
that you were terminated, sent a | 0:18:35 | 0:18:39 | |
note of dismissal from Oxfam about
three months later. And of course | 0:18:39 | 0:18:45 | |
the man who use a assaulted you was
involved in the decision to | 0:18:45 | 0:18:48 | |
terminate your contract. He was the
one who delivered the letter to me, | 0:18:48 | 0:18:53 | |
he was the one who signed the letter
to me. And while I am sure that | 0:18:53 | 0:18:58 | |
other people might have been
involved in that decision, he was | 0:18:58 | 0:19:02 | |
the one who carried it out. You are
in the end did leave Oxfam, you're | 0:19:02 | 0:19:07 | |
pushed out and you had a terrible
time trying to get them to see it | 0:19:07 | 0:19:12 | |
from your point of view. They made
no effort whatsoever to actually | 0:19:12 | 0:19:16 | |
conduct a proper investigation. I
was not able to go and make this | 0:19:16 | 0:19:21 | |
report to Thames Valley Police until
12 months later. At the time they | 0:19:21 | 0:19:27 | |
told me how unfortunate it was
because they could no longer request | 0:19:27 | 0:19:31 | |
for the CCTV footage from the hotel,
that would have a least shown me | 0:19:31 | 0:19:37 | |
running out of the hotel room, both
going with him to the hotel room and | 0:19:37 | 0:19:41 | |
running out of the hotel room.
Because the CCTV footage is only | 0:19:41 | 0:19:46 | |
kept for six months. That was a time
when I even got even more angry with | 0:19:46 | 0:19:51 | |
Oxfam. I think many people will be
surprised that an organisation which | 0:19:51 | 0:19:57 | |
is so progressive in its political
campaigns and in its general outlook | 0:19:57 | 0:20:03 | |
would be handling this in a way
which leaves you so dissatisfied, | 0:20:03 | 0:20:09 | |
what is going on here do you think?
I was extremely surprised myself. I | 0:20:09 | 0:20:14 | |
started work in the humanitarian
sector five years before that | 0:20:14 | 0:20:20 | |
because I thought it was an
international organisation, it was a | 0:20:20 | 0:20:25 | |
humanitarian organisation and I
thought that I would be protected, I | 0:20:25 | 0:20:31 | |
thought I would be safeguarded from
sexual harassment and sexual abuse. | 0:20:31 | 0:20:38 | |
I did not in my wildest imagination
think I would receive the sort of | 0:20:38 | 0:20:41 | |
treatment that I have. I think it is
self evident. I think Oxfam has put | 0:20:41 | 0:20:46 | |
the reputation before the lives of
both the people who work for them | 0:20:46 | 0:20:53 | |
and the people who they claim to
work for. What is your advice to | 0:20:53 | 0:20:57 | |
people who want to help poor
countries, who maybe have a desire | 0:20:57 | 0:21:02 | |
to donate money to those in GOP
Australia who are helping other | 0:21:02 | 0:21:08 | |
countries, what is your advice? Is
your advice to not give money to | 0:21:08 | 0:21:13 | |
Oxfam? Is Oxfam worse than the
others? I think it's an issue of | 0:21:13 | 0:21:17 | |
power. It's an organisation which
has gotten too powerful and as they | 0:21:17 | 0:21:26 | |
say, power corrupts. They began to
rebel more in their power than the | 0:21:26 | 0:21:29 | |
good things they give people. But if
people want to help, help is good. | 0:21:29 | 0:21:36 | |
That is what makes us human. That is
what keeps us human. I think it's | 0:21:36 | 0:21:40 | |
important we continue to support
each other as human beings. I think | 0:21:40 | 0:21:47 | |
after my treatment a lot of the
stories I have heard from people, | 0:21:47 | 0:21:51 | |
from women who have no intention of
coming forward because they still | 0:21:51 | 0:21:54 | |
have careers and from what we've
heard both from the UK and Chad -- | 0:21:54 | 0:22:02 | |
from Haiti and Chad, the statement
that women are at the centre of our | 0:22:02 | 0:22:06 | |
work, takes on a very sinister
meaning. Thank you so much for | 0:22:06 | 0:22:10 | |
talking to us. | 0:22:10 | 0:22:13 | |
I should say that although we've not
named the man who Lesley says | 0:22:13 | 0:22:16 | |
attacked her, his account
of what happened that | 0:22:16 | 0:22:18 | |
evening is very different. | 0:22:18 | 0:22:19 | |
He denies assault and on his version
of events, Lesley's contract | 0:22:19 | 0:22:22 | |
was terminated because the Nigeria
programme was not going well. | 0:22:22 | 0:22:25 | |
We did ask Oxfam for an interview
today but nobody was available. | 0:22:25 | 0:22:33 | |
In a statement the charity said the
decision to sack Leslie was taken by | 0:22:33 | 0:22:39 | |
people more senior than her manager.
It said an investigation by its own | 0:22:39 | 0:22:45 | |
staff and the police failed to find
sufficient evidence to substantiate | 0:22:45 | 0:22:48 | |
her claims. | 0:22:48 | 0:22:51 | |
Well, let's hear about another aid
charity and another case now. | 0:22:51 | 0:22:56 | |
This NGO was called Merlin,
but this does involve the man | 0:22:56 | 0:22:59 | |
at the centre of the main Oxfam
scandal, the Belgian | 0:22:59 | 0:23:01 | |
Roland Van Hauwermeiren. | 0:23:01 | 0:23:06 | |
He was running Oxfam's programme
in Haiti but was sacked | 0:23:06 | 0:23:08 | |
for using prostitutes. | 0:23:08 | 0:23:09 | |
He has been very quiet
since the whole scandal erupted last | 0:23:09 | 0:23:12 | |
week, no journalist seems
to have found him. | 0:23:12 | 0:23:14 | |
But it emerged yesterday he had been
implicated in similar misconduct | 0:23:14 | 0:23:17 | |
in Liberia years before. | 0:23:17 | 0:23:18 | |
Paul Hardcastle is a veteran aid
worker and was there in Liberia | 0:23:18 | 0:23:21 | |
with Merlin at the same time
as Van Hauwermeiren | 0:23:21 | 0:23:23 | |
and he complained at what he saw. | 0:23:23 | 0:23:26 | |
I asked him what Roland Van
Hauwermeiren was like. | 0:23:26 | 0:23:30 | |
Well, he was Belgian,
he spoke two or three languages. | 0:23:30 | 0:23:37 | |
He was an ex-Belgian
army officer and he was | 0:23:37 | 0:23:41 | |
about 50-52 at the time. | 0:23:41 | 0:23:47 | |
And he was the country
manager for Merlin in | 0:23:47 | 0:23:53 | |
Liberia and he had been
there for about 18 months. | 0:23:53 | 0:23:56 | |
But you were saying that
when you were in Liberia, and | 0:23:56 | 0:24:00 | |
you were not there as long as he
was, when you were there you were | 0:24:00 | 0:24:03 | |
seeing things you did not
think we're good at all. | 0:24:03 | 0:24:06 | |
So what were you seeing that
you thought was really | 0:24:06 | 0:24:08 | |
bad conduct? | 0:24:08 | 0:24:09 | |
I was seeing just open corruption. | 0:24:09 | 0:24:13 | |
I mean, the Merlin office was,
I am sorry to say this, | 0:24:13 | 0:24:16 | |
it was like the marketplace. | 0:24:16 | 0:24:18 | |
Our fuel was being
stolen at a huge rate, | 0:24:18 | 0:24:23 | |
something like 1000 gallons
in | 0:24:23 | 0:24:24 | |
a month, that type of thing,
a massive amount of fuel loss which | 0:24:24 | 0:24:31 | |
meant that we couldn't run our field
vehicles, which meant that we | 0:24:31 | 0:24:36 | |
couldn't implement our programme and
said that was my first head to head | 0:24:36 | 0:24:41 | |
with Roland. | 0:24:41 | 0:24:43 | |
Tell us about the sexual stuff. | 0:24:43 | 0:24:49 | |
Explain what was going
on on a typical night what is | 0:24:49 | 0:24:52 | |
actually happening. | 0:24:52 | 0:24:53 | |
What are those staff
at headquarters doing in | 0:24:53 | 0:24:55 | |
Monrovia? | 0:24:55 | 0:25:00 | |
Yeah, well, it was much less
restricted than being in the | 0:25:00 | 0:25:03 | |
field basically. | 0:25:03 | 0:25:04 | |
There was a UN curfew at 11
o'clock so everybody | 0:25:04 | 0:25:06 | |
should be in their houses at 11
o'clock for security reasons | 0:25:06 | 0:25:09 | |
obviously. | 0:25:09 | 0:25:12 | |
But this was not the case. | 0:25:12 | 0:25:20 | |
With Merlin they were the exception
so they had their drivers | 0:25:21 | 0:25:23 | |
on stand-by to ferry them
around to the nightclubs | 0:25:23 | 0:25:25 | |
and then to bring
the | 0:25:25 | 0:25:27 | |
girls back to his house,
his own team has as it were. | 0:25:27 | 0:25:30 | |
And then ferried
the girls back again. | 0:25:30 | 0:25:32 | |
An interesting question is why these
practices were tolerated. | 0:25:32 | 0:25:38 | |
I know you didn't want
to tolerate them, so who | 0:25:38 | 0:25:40 | |
did you take them to? | 0:25:40 | 0:25:41 | |
Who did you tell? | 0:25:41 | 0:25:43 | |
OK, well, there was a line
of control in terms of personnel | 0:25:43 | 0:25:46 | |
management and it was quite clear
we had a code of conduct and so you | 0:25:46 | 0:25:49 | |
reported, as I was the senior
manager within Merlin, so then you | 0:25:49 | 0:25:52 | |
have to report to your
country manager. | 0:25:52 | 0:26:00 | |
The trouble was, that is where
it was coming from, the | 0:26:01 | 0:26:04 | |
country manager. | 0:26:04 | 0:26:05 | |
You went back to London
at that point to Merlin | 0:26:05 | 0:26:07 | |
headquarters in London? | 0:26:07 | 0:26:08 | |
Yes. | 0:26:08 | 0:26:16 | |
So he sacked me and I rang up Merlin | 0:26:19 | 0:26:22 | |
headquarters in London
and I said to them, | 0:26:22 | 0:26:24 | |
I've been sacked, it is
an | 0:26:24 | 0:26:25 | |
obvious setup job, I will
write you a situation | 0:26:25 | 0:26:27 | |
report, an evaluation. | 0:26:27 | 0:26:29 | |
And I did that and I went back
to London and had several meetings | 0:26:29 | 0:26:32 | |
with all the main staff in Merlin
and | 0:26:32 | 0:26:36 | |
they agreed that they would go out
and assess the situation, which they | 0:26:36 | 0:26:44 | |
did, and then they made
the decisions to fire | 0:26:50 | 0:26:52 | |
them, or, for them
to resign. | 0:26:52 | 0:26:54 | |
And I think the only fired one
person and I think two | 0:26:54 | 0:26:57 | |
people resigned. | 0:26:57 | 0:26:58 | |
But the important thing
is that they must have known | 0:26:58 | 0:27:00 | |
that this was going on. | 0:27:00 | 0:27:02 | |
You would have to be
entirely blind or not to | 0:27:02 | 0:27:04 | |
listen to any of
the people out there. | 0:27:04 | 0:27:10 | |
No one dared to blow
the whistle and that is a huge | 0:27:10 | 0:27:13 | |
problem with aid agencies. | 0:27:13 | 0:27:21 | |
Do you give money to aid agencies,
to NGOs working out | 0:27:22 | 0:27:26 | |
in the field now? | 0:27:26 | 0:27:28 | |
Evan, between you and me,
I would never give a pound and I | 0:27:28 | 0:27:31 | |
have never given a pound. | 0:27:31 | 0:27:33 | |
I have worked for many
years, over 45 years | 0:27:33 | 0:27:35 | |
in the field, a 50 year period,
and I would never give £1 to any aid | 0:27:35 | 0:27:39 | |
organisation. | 0:27:39 | 0:27:40 | |
Just to sort of explain
that, there is such a | 0:27:40 | 0:27:42 | |
disconnect between the head
office and the field. | 0:27:42 | 0:27:47 | |
And there is a disconnect
which is incredibly | 0:27:47 | 0:27:49 | |
serious. | 0:27:49 | 0:27:52 | |
Basically aid workers are not
getting the support that they | 0:27:52 | 0:27:56 | |
deserve and that they need and that
includes guidance, training, it | 0:27:56 | 0:28:02 | |
includes back stopping,
these things have to happen in any | 0:28:02 | 0:28:04 | |
dire situation like that. | 0:28:04 | 0:28:09 | |
You are talking about human beings. | 0:28:09 | 0:28:13 | |
By head office you don't mean
London, you mean the | 0:28:13 | 0:28:15 | |
office in the country? | 0:28:15 | 0:28:17 | |
You mean London? | 0:28:17 | 0:28:18 | |
I mean London. | 0:28:18 | 0:28:26 | |
And that is why I am
talking about it. | 0:28:26 | 0:28:28 | |
That is why I am passionate
about explaining | 0:28:28 | 0:28:30 | |
this situation so that aid
organisations can get their house in | 0:28:30 | 0:28:33 | |
order. | 0:28:33 | 0:28:34 | |
Paul Hardcastle, thank you very much
indeed for talking to us. | 0:28:34 | 0:28:40 | |
Now, Merlin that you heard
mentioned there joined | 0:28:40 | 0:28:44 | |
Save the Children in 2013,
nine years after these events. | 0:28:44 | 0:28:47 | |
Save the Children has told us that
Roland Van Hauwermeiren was never | 0:28:47 | 0:28:50 | |
an employee of theirs. | 0:28:50 | 0:28:51 | |
They said they are unable to assist
any further in this matter. | 0:28:51 | 0:28:54 | |
Newsnight has been unable
to contact Mr Van Hauwermeiren | 0:28:54 | 0:28:56 | |
for his own comment. | 0:28:56 | 0:29:00 | |
Last summer, a Google engineer wrote
a memo suggesting that the company's | 0:29:00 | 0:29:03 | |
drive to get more women
into its coding jobs | 0:29:03 | 0:29:05 | |
was potentially not going to work. | 0:29:05 | 0:29:07 | |
Fewer women may be interested
in those jobs, he said, | 0:29:07 | 0:29:10 | |
citing biological differences
between men and women. | 0:29:10 | 0:29:15 | |
The memo turned out to be
very controversial - | 0:29:15 | 0:29:17 | |
this subject always is -
and the writer, James | 0:29:17 | 0:29:19 | |
Damore, was sacked. | 0:29:19 | 0:29:23 | |
He probably hardened opinion
in favour of helping women overcome | 0:29:23 | 0:29:25 | |
inequalities in the workplace. | 0:29:25 | 0:29:26 | |
But lurking in the background
are one or two interesting | 0:29:26 | 0:29:29 | |
observations that even critics
of the Google memo have to concede. | 0:29:29 | 0:29:32 | |
That women have come to dominate
some previously male | 0:29:32 | 0:29:35 | |
professions, but not others. | 0:29:35 | 0:29:37 | |
How come? | 0:29:37 | 0:29:39 | |
And there is an observed paradox
that more gender equal countries | 0:29:39 | 0:29:42 | |
seem to have fewer women
in science and engineering. | 0:29:42 | 0:29:46 | |
Can that be right? | 0:29:46 | 0:29:47 | |
Our technology editor David Grossman
has been looking at the evidence. | 0:29:47 | 0:29:49 | |
Many university physical science
labs physically resemble this | 0:29:58 | 0:30:01 | |
robotics laboratory at Leeds
University. | 0:30:01 | 0:30:06 | |
Getting more women to study
and pursue careers in stem subjects, | 0:30:06 | 0:30:10 | |
science, technology engineering
and maths has in recent years crept | 0:30:10 | 0:30:16 | |
up the political agenda. | 0:30:16 | 0:30:20 | |
Looking at undergraduate
enrolments in 2016-17, | 0:30:20 | 0:30:23 | |
of students whose principal subject
was physics, just 22.1% were women. | 0:30:23 | 0:30:28 | |
In computer science just 17.2%. | 0:30:28 | 0:30:32 | |
In engineering and
technology, 17.6%. | 0:30:32 | 0:30:36 | |
And in maths just 37.1%. | 0:30:36 | 0:30:40 | |
A study published today
by researchers in Leeds and Missouri | 0:30:40 | 0:30:45 | |
suggests the solutions may
not be straightforward. | 0:30:45 | 0:30:48 | |
People have long thought
that the more gender equal a country | 0:30:48 | 0:30:52 | |
is, the more similar boys and girls
and men and women will | 0:30:52 | 0:30:56 | |
become in their interests
and occupational choices. | 0:30:56 | 0:30:59 | |
If you ask the average person
in the street do you think | 0:30:59 | 0:31:03 | |
that there are more women
going into stem in Finland | 0:31:03 | 0:31:08 | |
and Norway than in Turkey
or Algeria, people will say | 0:31:08 | 0:31:10 | |
obviously Finland or Norway
because we know those are very | 0:31:10 | 0:31:14 | |
gender equal countries. | 0:31:14 | 0:31:16 | |
But we see the opposite,
said that is a very paradoxical | 0:31:16 | 0:31:21 | |
But we see the opposite,
so that is a very paradoxical | 0:31:21 | 0:31:24 | |
finding and that is why we called
this study the gender | 0:31:24 | 0:31:27 | |
equality paradox. | 0:31:27 | 0:31:28 | |
The researchers took the level
of gender equality as measured | 0:31:28 | 0:31:30 | |
by the World Economic Forum's global
gender gap index and plotted it | 0:31:30 | 0:31:33 | |
against the proportion of women
graduates in stem subjects. | 0:31:33 | 0:31:37 | |
No countries were high
on both measures. | 0:31:37 | 0:31:41 | |
Countries like Finland,
Norway and Sweden measured high | 0:31:41 | 0:31:44 | |
for gender equality,
but low for women stem graduates. | 0:31:44 | 0:31:48 | |
In countries like UAE,
Tunisia, Turkey and Algeria | 0:31:48 | 0:31:51 | |
it was the other way around. | 0:31:51 | 0:31:53 | |
This, by the way, is the UK. | 0:31:53 | 0:31:58 | |
What the study does not do is come
up with any firm answers | 0:31:58 | 0:32:01 | |
as to why this should be,
although the researchers | 0:32:01 | 0:32:03 | |
do have a theory. | 0:32:03 | 0:32:05 | |
Life satisfaction is higher
in gender equal countries | 0:32:05 | 0:32:08 | |
and we think that when life
satisfaction is higher | 0:32:08 | 0:32:11 | |
and when people feel more
secure in a society, | 0:32:11 | 0:32:14 | |
they feel they can do
what they really like. | 0:32:14 | 0:32:18 | |
They are less driven
by economic interests. | 0:32:18 | 0:32:25 | |
But there are other explanations
offered, that women in less gender | 0:32:25 | 0:32:27 | |
equal societies have not been
excluded from science | 0:32:27 | 0:32:30 | |
in the past like women
in Europe and North America. | 0:32:30 | 0:32:37 | |
The only female Fields Medal winner
winner, the Fields Medal | 0:32:37 | 0:32:40 | |
is like the Nobel Prize
for mathematics, | 0:32:40 | 0:32:42 | |
was Maryam Mirzakhani,
an Iranian-American women, | 0:32:42 | 0:32:45 | |
and I don't think
that is a coincidence | 0:32:45 | 0:32:47 | |
that she happened to be Iranian. | 0:32:47 | 0:32:50 | |
Iran has very good rates
of women in science. | 0:32:50 | 0:32:53 | |
They don't have the same stereotypes
for some reason as Europe does. | 0:32:53 | 0:32:57 | |
So I think really this
reflects a historical fact, | 0:32:57 | 0:33:01 | |
this long legacy of exclusion
is the reason why in Europe we still | 0:33:01 | 0:33:06 | |
see this lag, women catching up. | 0:33:06 | 0:33:10 | |
We are still working so hard
to change the culture | 0:33:10 | 0:33:14 | |
because for so long the culture
was so against women. | 0:33:14 | 0:33:20 | |
However, the gap in so-called stem
subjects only tells us part | 0:33:20 | 0:33:26 | |
of the story about women studying
science subjects at university. | 0:33:26 | 0:33:30 | |
There are plenty of subjects with
big gender gaps that favour women. | 0:33:30 | 0:33:34 | |
Of undergraduates whose
principal subject is | 0:33:34 | 0:33:37 | |
medicine, 55.2% are women. | 0:33:37 | 0:33:41 | |
In dentistry it is 62%. | 0:33:41 | 0:33:43 | |
In biological sciences it is 63%. | 0:33:43 | 0:33:47 | |
In veterinary science it is 77.3%. | 0:33:47 | 0:33:51 | |
And in nursing it is 90.5%. | 0:33:51 | 0:33:55 | |
Indeed, taken as a whole, women
account for 51.5%, just over half | 0:33:55 | 0:33:59 | |
of science undergraduate enrolments. | 0:33:59 | 0:34:03 | |
Most subjects at university
are dominated by women. | 0:34:03 | 0:34:09 | |
There are very few areas -
we mentioned engineering | 0:34:09 | 0:34:12 | |
and computer science that
are dominated by men - | 0:34:12 | 0:34:15 | |
but the gaps there are much smaller
than for things like nursing, | 0:34:15 | 0:34:19 | |
teaching, social work,
education studies and so on. | 0:34:19 | 0:34:24 | |
I think it would be much better
if we concentrated in getting gender | 0:34:24 | 0:34:27 | |
equality across all subject areas,
rather than just focusing | 0:34:27 | 0:34:31 | |
narrowly on stem. | 0:34:31 | 0:34:36 | |
So why do men and women often end up
on different career paths? | 0:34:36 | 0:34:40 | |
Why are some occupations
so dominated by one gender? | 0:34:40 | 0:34:43 | |
The answers, it appears,
are far from straightforward. | 0:34:43 | 0:34:51 | |
I am joined now by Jess Wade,
a Physician from Imperial College | 0:34:51 | 0:34:54 | |
London, and Belinda Brown,
a research associate | 0:34:54 | 0:34:56 | |
from University College London. | 0:34:56 | 0:35:00 | |
Good evening. Do you basically think
men and women are the same and you | 0:35:00 | 0:35:08 | |
would expect them, short of social
pressure, to be more or less the | 0:35:08 | 0:35:16 | |
same? I do not think they are the
same, I acknowledge there are | 0:35:16 | 0:35:21 | |
differences, but I think men and
women can contribute equally to the | 0:35:21 | 0:35:24 | |
success of science and I think it is
important for physics, engineering, | 0:35:24 | 0:35:30 | |
biology, computer science, that
everyone is involved in research so | 0:35:30 | 0:35:34 | |
we get the most interesting outcomes
and the diverse range of | 0:35:34 | 0:35:37 | |
conversations happening. Would you
think 50-50 recruitment at | 0:35:37 | 0:35:43 | |
university at postgrad is about
right? It is realistic to expect | 0:35:43 | 0:35:47 | |
that. In all cases, especially cases
I have come across, and I work a lot | 0:35:47 | 0:35:54 | |
with the Institute of physics who
have done a lot of good work in this | 0:35:54 | 0:35:59 | |
area, girls enjoy subjects like
physics and if they are encouraged | 0:35:59 | 0:36:02 | |
to do them and if they have the
confidence to do them and they | 0:36:02 | 0:36:05 | |
studied them, they can do really
well in them. We need to make sure | 0:36:05 | 0:36:10 | |
everyone is aware that can study the
subject and they can have an awesome | 0:36:10 | 0:36:14 | |
time at university and feel like
they can contribute. Science would | 0:36:14 | 0:36:17 | |
be better if they contributed. Do
you disagree with anything Jess has | 0:36:17 | 0:36:23 | |
just said? I am all for encouraging
everybody to study science as Jess | 0:36:23 | 0:36:31 | |
says. We have to be a little bit
careful because there has been a | 0:36:31 | 0:36:37 | |
really big emphasis on
discrimination happening and this | 0:36:37 | 0:36:41 | |
can actually have the unintended
consequence of getting women into | 0:36:41 | 0:36:46 | |
science because they think there is
discrimination in there and it puts | 0:36:46 | 0:36:52 | |
them of doing it. Really we want to
sell science as a great subject to | 0:36:52 | 0:36:57 | |
boys and girls equally. Would you
expect if you pushed it equally to | 0:36:57 | 0:37:04 | |
everybody that the outcome would be
50-50? No, I would not. You would | 0:37:04 | 0:37:12 | |
probably end up with fewer girls in
these very select few, say | 0:37:12 | 0:37:16 | |
computing, engineering and physics.
We probably will end up with | 0:37:16 | 0:37:20 | |
slightly fewer girls and this does
come back to differences which you | 0:37:20 | 0:37:25 | |
find universally. Whether you are
looking at gender equal countries or | 0:37:25 | 0:37:31 | |
gender unequal countries, even in
the countries where there are more | 0:37:31 | 0:37:34 | |
female scientists, there were still
fewer, I will not say scientists, I | 0:37:34 | 0:37:42 | |
will say more female programmers,
there will still be fewer female | 0:37:42 | 0:37:45 | |
programmers. This goes back to
differences at all kinds of levels | 0:37:45 | 0:37:50 | |
between men and women and some of
these, for example women will turn | 0:37:50 | 0:37:55 | |
to prioritise. Even when you are
looking at the most mathematically | 0:37:55 | 0:38:03 | |
precocious women they will
prioritise the work - life buyers. | 0:38:03 | 0:38:07 | |
Said they select a certain kind of
profession. Jess, how do you explain | 0:38:07 | 0:38:12 | |
the paradox we saw there that the
gender equal countries, the | 0:38:12 | 0:38:16 | |
Scandinavian countries, have not got
more female scientists? We have to | 0:38:16 | 0:38:23 | |
take culture of society into account
and Scandinavian countries are very | 0:38:23 | 0:38:27 | |
different to UAE countries and
gender equality is one thing that is | 0:38:27 | 0:38:32 | |
very different. But we have toys for
children, how we put clothes on | 0:38:32 | 0:38:38 | |
children, how we navigate children
through the Key stages of their | 0:38:38 | 0:38:42 | |
decision-making about whether they
will become scientists and | 0:38:42 | 0:38:45 | |
associated with a scientist and that
is even the same for grown-ups. Why | 0:38:45 | 0:38:56 | |
would there be fewer scientists? You
have something interesting going on, | 0:38:56 | 0:39:02 | |
especially at the adult career
stage. In countries like the UAE | 0:39:02 | 0:39:07 | |
they do not value careers in science
and engineering as highly as we do | 0:39:07 | 0:39:12 | |
in the UK and in Scandinavia. We
have this idea that to succeed in | 0:39:12 | 0:39:16 | |
science and engineering you have to
be brilliant, a complete genius, you | 0:39:16 | 0:39:21 | |
have to do all these amazing things
and be an isolated, theoretical | 0:39:21 | 0:39:25 | |
physicist. What people and parents
and teachers do not realise is there | 0:39:25 | 0:39:31 | |
a whole bunch of average scientists
and engineers out there having a | 0:39:31 | 0:39:36 | |
great time and doing what they love
as a job. In countries where they | 0:39:36 | 0:39:40 | |
recognise that they have more gender
balance within those subjects and | 0:39:40 | 0:39:45 | |
they pay them less. So we do not
really celebrate doctors here is | 0:39:45 | 0:39:52 | |
much any more, medical doctors, and
there is a gender imbalance. Do you | 0:39:52 | 0:40:00 | |
explain that women choose not to do
coding or do you explain it as women | 0:40:00 | 0:40:06 | |
have less aptitude? It is a mixture
of both. Let me say, there will | 0:40:06 | 0:40:10 | |
always be women who could be
fantastic at coding but I think it | 0:40:10 | 0:40:15 | |
is partly that they are less likely
to choose coding and maybe because | 0:40:15 | 0:40:21 | |
they are less likely to have
aptitude. I really do not want to | 0:40:21 | 0:40:28 | |
cite the statistic that for example
if you look at it, I will do because | 0:40:28 | 0:40:33 | |
it is relevant, if you look at the
intelligence distribution, men and | 0:40:33 | 0:40:38 | |
women have equal... Be careful. We
are equally intelligent but if you | 0:40:38 | 0:40:47 | |
look at the very top 5% of the most
intelligent people they will tend to | 0:40:47 | 0:40:51 | |
be slightly more males. If you look
at lowest intelligence there were | 0:40:51 | 0:40:57 | |
also be more males. I think there
are possible differences in aptitude | 0:40:57 | 0:41:03 | |
but that should not be in the wake
of this. We can always overcome | 0:41:03 | 0:41:08 | |
them. An interesting thing is if you
acknowledge differences, you can | 0:41:08 | 0:41:13 | |
start to overcome them if that's
what you think we should be doing. | 0:41:13 | 0:41:16 | |
That is what I would question. We
need to leave it there. That is all | 0:41:16 | 0:41:22 | |
we have time for tonight. It will be
Kirsty tomorrow. From all of us now, | 0:41:22 | 0:41:26 | |
good night. | 0:41:26 | 0:41:31 |