01/03/2018 Newsnight


01/03/2018

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 01/03/2018. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

The icy fang and churlish chiding

of the winter's wind...

0:00:040:00:09

Shakespeare made it sound exciting,

but for the millions affected

0:00:090:00:11

it's anything but.

0:00:110:00:15

Add to that fears over

the energy supply -

0:00:150:00:18

are we coping as well as we should?

0:00:180:00:20

There's plenty of gas in the world,

there's plenty of import

0:00:200:00:23

infrastructure, so it's not really

a shortage of gas overall.

0:00:230:00:27

But what we saw today is our ability

to handle short-term spikes

0:00:270:00:30

in demand is not great.

0:00:300:00:36

Also tonight:

0:00:360:00:37

Has Putin launched a new arms race?

0:00:370:00:38

We'll be speaking a former

US Ambassador to Nato.

0:00:480:00:53

The Italians head to

the polls on Sunday,

0:00:530:00:56

after a campaign dominated

by anti-immigrant rhetoric.

0:00:560:01:00

Is this new, or are old tensions

bubbling to the surface?

0:01:000:01:03

And...

0:01:230:01:24

Charting all his failures.

0:01:240:01:25

Suede front man Brett Anderson

on the time before he was famous.

0:01:250:01:30

A lot of the experience

of being in Suede in the early days

0:01:300:01:34

was kind of like failure

after failure, struggle

0:01:340:01:36

after struggle, and it seemed to be

the word that sort of summed

0:01:360:01:39

it all up.

0:01:390:01:42

Good evening.

0:01:490:01:51

The military was called in to help

emergency services today,

0:01:510:01:56

as the country remains frozen

by a blast of extreme weather

0:01:560:01:59

of a scale and severity few can

remember experiencing before.

0:01:590:02:03

Tonight, Storm Emma is preparing

to do her worst, with snow

0:02:030:02:06

threatened to up to 50 centimetres

in parts of the UK.

0:02:060:02:10

A red weather warning for snow

is in force for south

0:02:100:02:13

West England and South Wales

until tomorrow at least.

0:02:130:02:17

The day has brought very sad

fatalities, but also births

0:02:170:02:19

in extraordinary circumstances.

0:02:190:02:22

There was also a warning

from the National Grid

0:02:220:02:24

that there may not be enough gas

to meet demand.

0:02:240:02:27

We'll be investigating the impact

of that on industry and domestic

0:02:270:02:30

users and whether such a shortage

could have been avoided,

0:02:300:02:32

but first, it was a day of drama.

0:02:320:02:35

These are the temperatures

that you may well see

0:02:390:02:42

on your thermometer,

but if you step out in the wind,

0:02:420:02:45

it is really going to feel cold.

0:02:450:02:48

-13 in Birmingham.

0:02:480:02:50

That is not to be sneezed at.

0:02:500:02:52

I've just been speaking

to Chris Evans, he says his hair

0:02:520:02:54

froze in the few minutes it took him

to go outside and then come back in.

0:02:540:02:57

We've got amber weather warnings

into South Wales and the south-west,

0:03:140:03:17

but we have a red, top tier,

that means take action,

0:03:170:03:19

the weather could turn really

quite disruptive as we go

0:03:190:03:22

through the evening.

0:03:220:03:25

A lot of snow piling up,

some spots seeing 15-20 centimetres,

0:03:360:03:40

maybe 40 or 50 over

the higher ground here.

0:03:400:03:44

Some of that snow then fringing

into parts of Northern Ireland.

0:03:440:03:47

As we go through the night,

we keep the snow showers

0:03:470:03:50

across northern and eastern

Scotland.

0:03:500:03:53

Well, police across the country have

been urging people not to travel

0:04:140:04:17

unless they have to,

and hundreds of drivers

0:04:170:04:19

remain stranded tonight.

0:04:190:04:23

Among them is Jo Deahl,

a BBC employee who has been stuck

0:04:230:04:26

on the A62 near Diggle

in Greater Manchester for five hours

0:04:260:04:29

with partner Chris and their brand

new 8-week-old puppy, Maggie.

0:04:290:04:34

Good evening to you. First of all,

why did you venture out?

Well, we're

0:04:340:04:40

asking ourselves the same question

now. We came from Chesterfield and

0:04:400:04:45

we checked the weather, checked the

roads and there were problems on the

0:04:450:04:49

M62. Build road we are now, the A62

looks fine and it was fine until we

0:04:490:04:59

got to Diggle. We got to Abendanon

Road and we stopped. We haven't

0:04:590:05:03

moved since. We've seen about 20

tractors, 20 ploughs, some pulling

0:05:030:05:08

articulated lorries back up the hill

but nothing going westward, towards

0:05:080:05:13

Manchester. The first people we've

seen in about five hours, the

0:05:130:05:19

mountain rescue people, said the

council have closed the road and

0:05:190:05:22

they are advising us to leave. We

said, where shall we go?

Out of the

0:05:220:05:26

car?

He is saying leave the car and

he said we have just been told there

0:05:260:05:33

is nothing happening here tonight.

We literally had that in the last

0:05:330:05:36

couple of minutes.

So what is your

plan? Presumably you have a lot of

0:05:360:05:40

stuff with you, are you prepared to

bivouac somewhere? What are you

0:05:400:05:45

going to do?

We don't know, we have

only just heard. We are quite

0:05:450:05:50

prepared because even though the

roads looked OK, we got some

0:05:500:05:53

blankets, food and water, because

the weather wasn't great. I don't

0:05:530:05:57

know. We have a massive tractor in

front of us right now. I think they

0:05:570:06:01

may maybe putting somebody from

another carp into it. The winds,

0:06:010:06:06

it's like Armageddon, the wind must

be 60 miles an hour. I got out of

0:06:060:06:11

the car and could barely stand up.

We don't know right now. I think we

0:06:110:06:19

are going to bed down here, we're

not getting out of the car.

Watch

0:06:190:06:23

that puppy, as well. Thank you very

much indeed.

0:06:230:06:27

Now, early this morning

the National Grid issued its first

0:06:270:06:29

gas deficit warning for eight years

and has said it will remain

0:06:290:06:32

in place overnight.

0:06:320:06:33

It's not as if our gas boilers

will suddenly go out,

0:06:330:06:35

but rather the shortfall

of about 30 million cubic metres

0:06:350:06:38

could effect industrial users.

0:06:380:06:39

It's the first major test

of Britain's gas market

0:06:390:06:41

since the closure of Rough,

the UK's biggest natural

0:06:410:06:44

gas storage facility.

0:06:440:06:45

So why is there a shortfall?

0:06:450:06:46

Here's our Business

Editor Helen Thomas.

0:06:460:06:49

The 1990s, the North Sea's heyday.

0:06:550:07:00

Having a hefty deposit

of hydrocarbons on our doorstep

0:07:000:07:05

had its advantages, but since then,

UK gas production

0:07:050:07:08

has roughly halved.

0:07:080:07:11

As recently as 2003,

the UK was a net exporter of gas,

0:07:110:07:15

which meant that availability,

even on days like this,

0:07:150:07:18

just wasn't really an issue.

0:07:180:07:20

Now we're more reliant

on supplies from overseas,

0:07:200:07:28

which means that unusually cold

weather or unexpected disruptions

0:07:280:07:30

to supplies risks leaving us short.

0:07:300:07:35

About 43% of the UK's gas now comes

from domestic production.

0:07:350:07:43

44% arrives through pipelines

from Europe, with Norway

0:07:440:07:46

as the single largest source,

and 13% comes on tankers in the form

0:07:460:07:49

of liquefied natural gas.

0:07:490:07:51

Technical problems at Norwegian

fields and at LNG facilities

0:07:510:07:53

contributed to today's squeeze.

0:07:530:07:56

But National Grid's warning didn't

ever mean UK homes would go cold,

0:07:560:08:01

it was a call to the market to plug

a forecast shortfall.

0:08:010:08:04

And it worked.

0:08:040:08:07

What we've seen is a spike

in prices, which is expected.

0:08:070:08:10

That tells people

there is a scarcity.

0:08:100:08:15

The flip side, we've seen more

gas come onto the grid,

0:08:150:08:19

so we've seen increased

flows from Europe.

0:08:190:08:21

We've also seen some reduction

in demand from the system.

0:08:210:08:26

What we've got to, the point we've

got to now is actually National Grid

0:08:260:08:30

have managed to balance the system.

0:08:300:08:31

So that shortness

of gas has gone away.

0:08:310:08:33

So that's the system working?

0:08:330:08:34

That's the system

working as it should do.

0:08:340:08:36

National Grid didn't have to take

further emergency measures,

0:08:370:08:42

like buying in the market or taking

official steps to reduce demand.

0:08:420:08:45

But this crunch comes

after the closure of the UK's

0:08:450:08:50

largest gas storage facility,

Rough, last year.

0:08:500:08:56

Less storage means reduced ability

to respond to unexpected events,

0:08:560:09:00

and that, says this analyst,

is a problem that needs fixing.

0:09:000:09:03

There's plenty of gas in the world,

there's plenty of import

0:09:030:09:09

infrastructure, so it's not really

a shortage of gas overall.

0:09:090:09:14

But what we saw today is our ability

to handle short-term spikes

0:09:140:09:17

in demand is not great.

0:09:170:09:19

I think the government

should incentivise storage

0:09:190:09:21

operators to stay open.

0:09:210:09:22

They could give them

a regulated return.

0:09:220:09:27

And if they need to invest further,

then incentivise that.

0:09:270:09:30

I think it's a very small price

to pay for security of supply.

0:09:300:09:33

Seasonal storage isn't commercial

in part thanks to the UK's

0:09:350:09:39

International energy market.

0:09:390:09:47

Pipeline supplies on tap,

squeezed the gap between summer

0:09:480:09:50

and winter prices, which is how

facilities made their money.

0:09:500:09:54

Spending more on the emergency

storage is for some,

0:09:540:09:56

the wrong solution.

0:09:560:09:57

The best way to make the UK more

secure is to reduce our dependency

0:09:570:10:00

on natural gas, not just imported,

but in general.

0:10:000:10:02

And the way to do that is to

reduce the demand for it.

0:10:020:10:05

Most gas that we have in the UK

is consumed in the residential

0:10:050:10:09

sector but we have some of the worst

housing stock in Europe

0:10:090:10:12

for energy efficiency,

for insulation, windows,

0:10:120:10:13

these sorts of things.

0:10:130:10:17

So if the Government improves

the housing stock in the country

0:10:170:10:20

then we would reduce our dependence

on gas and these kind of events

0:10:200:10:23

would become less likely.

0:10:230:10:24

Heading climate change targets

will mean a move away from fossil

0:10:240:10:27

fuels and the Beast from the East

brought wind as well and snow.

0:10:270:10:32

Wind has provided a big chunk of UK

power in recent days

0:10:320:10:35

but then so has coal.

0:10:350:10:43

A few days of snow,

the inevitable travel chaos,

0:10:430:10:45

but it means longer-term questions

about the state of

0:10:450:10:47

the UK energy market.

0:10:470:10:49

Helen Thomas.

0:10:490:10:51

We asked the Department

of Energy for an interview

0:10:510:10:53

but nobody was available.

0:10:530:10:54

I'm joined though by

Dr Thierry Bros, a senior research

0:10:540:10:56

fellow of the Oxford Institute

for Energy Studies.

0:10:560:10:59

He was formerly in charge

of security of supply for oil

0:10:590:11:02

and gas for the French government.

0:11:020:11:04

Also with me is Dr Laura Cohen.

0:11:040:11:05

She is chief executive

of the British Ceramic Confederation

0:11:050:11:08

and is one of the members of a gas

security lobbying group that wrote

0:11:080:11:11

last year to Secretary

of State Greg Clark to demand

0:11:110:11:13

an inquiry into gas security.

0:11:130:11:18

Good evening to you both. Thierry

Bros, looking at Helen's report, why

0:11:180:11:25

have we left ourselves open to

shortages like this?

As you saw from

0:11:250:11:29

the report you are not open to

shortages, on average it is OK. The

0:11:290:11:35

problem is the balancing of the

supply and demand on the very short

0:11:350:11:38

level. Here you are in an absolutely

new situation. You are an importer

0:11:380:11:42

and you have no or very little

storage following the Rough closure,

0:11:420:11:49

so you find yourself a bit like the

other European countries,

0:11:490:11:52

continental European countries, back

in the last decade. The question is

0:11:520:11:58

do you need to change the regulation

or are you still going with the

0:11:580:12:02

deregulation, which means you will

get some volatility to cover those

0:12:020:12:07

supply and demand imbalances.

We

could have gained this volatility,

0:12:070:12:14

we left ourselves open to this

because we don't have the spare

0:12:140:12:17

capacity?

That is always the case.

Laura, that is the case, you trade

0:12:170:12:23

cheaper gas that this uncertainty?

Any economy needs security and lack

0:12:230:12:33

of price volatility. Our members, up

to a third of their production cost

0:12:330:12:39

can be energy, so this is really

potentially hurting them, this price

0:12:390:12:45

spike that they had seen today hurt

them very badly indeed. They have to

0:12:450:12:50

be able to compete internationally,

but also there is the physical risk

0:12:500:12:55

of disconnection. That hasn't

happened yet, but if you crash

0:12:550:12:59

called a brick kiln 100 metres long

that 1000 Celsius that usually takes

0:12:590:13:06

weeks to call down and you are told

to cut your gas off in four hours,

0:13:060:13:10

that can only cause damage.

Industry

isn't going to be told to cut gas

0:13:100:13:18

off, are they?

Yes stop Europe

remember, there are two levels. One

0:13:180:13:23

is that people like you and me. We

are safe. There is no risk, retail

0:13:230:13:30

consumers are. Yes, big industries,

and this is the type of warning we

0:13:300:13:35

got this morning and tonight, if

there is not enough gas...

There's

0:13:350:13:40

no chance for you to reduce

consumption, you just have to do

0:13:400:13:44

crash killed your kiln?

Yes, you

try, if you are given enough

0:13:440:13:50

warning, but we won't be.

You make

bricks for the houses people need?

0:13:500:13:56

Exactly. We need an urgent inquiry

into gas security, both the physical

0:13:560:14:03

security and the price volatility.

What does the government said

0:14:030:14:07

question might you are ahead of that

federation, what does the government

0:14:070:14:10

say to you?

The government isn't

offering us that. We need government

0:14:100:14:15

to look at a minimum level of gas

storage, and they need to look at

0:14:150:14:22

options to underpin this, using

regulatory means.

Do you think the

0:14:220:14:29

government gets the idea that if

your members have two crash kill

0:14:290:14:35

kilns in different areas of the

industry, then productivity goes

0:14:350:14:39

down on the impact will be quite

severe?

I'm not sure they really get

0:14:390:14:43

it. Some businesses can shut down

when there are enormous price

0:14:430:14:48

spikes, many can't. It is not just

run X, our reliance includes the

0:14:480:14:53

British Chamber of Commerce, the

major energy users Council, other

0:14:530:14:58

manufacturers as well, and trade

unions. They are concerned about

0:14:580:15:02

jobs and businesses and investment.

What you do, reopen a storage

0:15:020:15:06

facility? When you see this has

actually happened now, is it time to

0:15:060:15:09

build supply again or is this drive

to get away from gas going to mean

0:15:090:15:14

there will be much more investment

in wind energy and other forms of

0:15:140:15:17

energy?

Two things, I think your

video was important. In the last ten

0:15:170:15:24

years we have seen a reduction of

gas demand in Europe and the UK, so

0:15:240:15:28

we find. We have seen since 2014 and

increasing gas demand in the UK and

0:15:280:15:33

you are absolutely right, as we saw

in the video, the increase was

0:15:330:15:37

linked to the coal to gas switching.

So you are getting greener, we are

0:15:370:15:41

getting greener, but we are getting

more reliant on gas and we have less

0:15:410:15:45

storage. The thing is Europe is low

in storage, so perhaps there is...

0:15:450:15:51

Maybe Europe is the answer.

Could be

the answer.

Thank you very much

0:15:510:15:54

indeed.

0:15:540:15:58

We reported last night

on the strange case of the Russian

0:15:580:16:01

presidential opposition candidate

who might not be all she seems,

0:16:010:16:03

but today there was nothing

equivocal about Vladamir Putin's

0:16:030:16:06

announcement that he has a new array

of invincible nuclear weapons.

0:16:060:16:13

Making his bid for a fourth

Presidential term, he told Russian

0:16:130:16:15

MPs that he had a Cruise missile

that could reach

0:16:150:16:18

anywhere in the world.

0:16:180:16:19

He added that the West needs to take

account of a new reality

0:16:190:16:22

and understand that this

is not a bluff.

0:16:220:16:26

The US State Department this evening

responded by accusing Moscow

0:16:260:16:29

of violating its obligations

under nuclear treaties.

0:16:290:16:31

So what is Putin up to - and could

this start a new arms race?

0:16:310:16:34

Nicholas Burns was US ambassador

to Nato under President George Bush

0:16:340:16:37

and joins me now from Harvard.

0:16:370:16:40

Good evening, thanks for joining us.

Do you believe Vladimir Putin has

0:16:400:16:47

got what he says he's got?

You know,

it's uncertain. This could be a

0:16:470:16:54

bluff, it's not been ascertained

whether or not this new nuclear

0:16:540:16:58

cruise missile actually exists, but

he may have. I don't think it

0:16:580:17:02

changes much in the world of defence

because the United States, the UK,

0:17:020:17:06

France still have a nuclear

deterrent. Putin is an experienced

0:17:060:17:10

leader, he knows that any use of

nuclear weapons by Russia would be

0:17:100:17:14

met with full force by the West. My

one wants a nuclear conflict, that

0:17:140:17:20

would be madness so I think this is

for domestic consumption. He's

0:17:200:17:24

running for president, that may

explain the speech.

But he's not

0:17:240:17:30

daft, he knows that his chances of

losing the president, pigs might

0:17:300:17:34

fly.

Quite small.

So why is he is

sabre rattling now? Do you think the

0:17:340:17:43

position over the conflict in Syria

changes things, the more aggressive

0:17:430:17:46

attitude?

I think two reasons, he is

appealing to Russian nationalism. He

0:17:460:17:54

did so after his occupation of

commie two years ago. He wants to

0:17:540:17:58

convince the Russian people that

Russia is a great superpower -- his

0:17:580:18:05

occupation of Crimea. He is still

looking for a big turnout of Russian

0:18:050:18:12

voters. In terms of Russian foreign

policy, in the final part of his

0:18:120:18:17

speech, Putin complained that the

West has not been listening to them

0:18:170:18:20

and that they had better listen now.

His words. I think Putin has long

0:18:200:18:25

complained that Russia is treated by

Europe and the United States as a

0:18:250:18:30

backwater, that China is given pride

of place and he wants the West to

0:18:300:18:35

understand that Russia continues to

be a powerful country. But what a

0:18:350:18:40

crude message, what a cynical and

bitter message from a world leader,

0:18:400:18:43

disappointing to hear his beach,

certainly.

Is he baiting Trump?

He

0:18:430:18:50

may well be doing that. I think the

Russians are also disappointed in

0:18:500:18:55

President Trump. I think they felt

when he came to office that there

0:18:550:18:59

would be warmer relations between

Moscow and Washington. Trump had

0:18:590:19:03

that in tension but now we've had

this very long investigation by the

0:19:030:19:08

former FBI director of possible

collusion by the Trump campaign with

0:19:080:19:12

the Russian government and it has

made it politically impossible for

0:19:120:19:17

Trump to warm up relations. As an

American citizens I must say that we

0:19:170:19:23

know that the Russians interfered in

a massive way in the 2016 election,

0:19:230:19:28

the people in Congress don't want

business as usual which has

0:19:280:19:31

constrained President Trump.

Is he

potentially breaking the

0:19:310:19:36

international nuclear laws?

Well, I

think that is the concern here.

0:19:360:19:44

There is a concern in Europe and the

US and Canada that Putin may be

0:19:440:19:49

violating the 1987 intermediate

forces nuclear treaty. The Russians

0:19:490:19:53

have been testing new weapons, as he

said this morning and showed on the

0:19:530:19:58

big screen this morning in Moscow

and they may well be in violation of

0:19:580:20:02

the agreement is that they signed in

decades past. That's a serious

0:20:020:20:05

charge. This is going to require a

concerted and unified response by

0:20:050:20:12

Nato, the European countries and the

US and Canada. I'm sure you'll see

0:20:120:20:17

that. It's very serious. I don't

think it brings us closer to war

0:20:170:20:21

with Russia because the Russians

understand that the West is still

0:20:210:20:24

very powerful. Putin is a brutal

leader but he is rational and I

0:20:240:20:29

don't think he'll test our defences.

Thank you for joining us.

0:20:290:20:33

Theresa May today gave

the European Council President

0:20:330:20:35

Donald Tusk the heads up

that the European Commission's draft

0:20:350:20:39

legal text was "unacceptable

to Britain," just in case

0:20:390:20:40

he was in any doubt.

0:20:400:20:43

She was meeting him at Number Ten,

ahead of her big speech tomorrow

0:20:430:20:47

at Mansion House billed as laying

out the "ambitious economic

0:20:470:20:49

partnership" she wants with the EU.

0:20:490:20:55

Is this FINALLY Theresa May's

opportunity for the vision thing?

0:20:550:20:58

The moment when Brexit means Brexit

is finally explained?

0:20:580:21:00

I'm joined by our political

editor Nick Watt.

0:21:000:21:02

What are you hearing?

Theresa May is

going to set out five tests that

0:21:020:21:06

must be met for the negotiations to

be declared successful. Let's have a

0:21:060:21:11

look. In the first place, the result

of the referenda must be respected,

0:21:110:21:16

the UK taken control of its laws,

borders and money. In the second

0:21:160:21:22

test, any agreement reached with the

EU must endure. We don't want to be

0:21:220:21:26

back at the negotiating table. The

third test, the agreement must

0:21:260:21:31

protect people's jobs and security.

In the fourth test it must

0:21:310:21:36

protect people's jobs and security.

In the fourth test it must show that

0:21:360:21:37

the UK is a modern democracy.

Interestingly the fifth test says

0:21:370:21:41

that the union, the UK must come

together and

0:21:410:21:45

that the union, the UK must come

together and that's interesting

0:21:450:21:46

because a year ago the Prime

Minister was saying that the country

0:21:460:21:50

was uniting behind Brexit and now

she seems to be acknowledging

0:21:500:21:52

divisions.

It doesn't sound very

pokey, it is a bit woolly.

The Prime

0:21:520:22:01

Minister is keeping some things up

her sleeve, I think we will see the

0:22:010:22:05

fruits of Cabinet discussions on how

we will define the UK's economic

0:22:050:22:07

relationship with the EU when we are

out of the European Union. We can

0:22:070:22:14

look now at what Theresa May wants

to do. She wants to break the

0:22:140:22:18

relationship into

0:22:180:22:19

to do. She wants to break the

relationship into three baskets.

0:22:190:22:20

Number one, the UK would be fully

aligned with EU rules in some areas

0:22:200:22:24

for example cars. In the second

basket, you'd have the same goals,

0:22:240:22:31

but different rules, things like

environmental standards. In the

0:22:310:22:35

third basket, different goals and

different rules, we'd be on our own.

0:22:350:22:40

third basket, different goals and

different rules, we'd be on our own.

0:22:400:22:40

Things like the insurance market.

I'm told there was quite a pointed

0:22:400:22:44

discussion in Cabinet this morning

about the first basket. There was

0:22:440:22:49

evidently intent for the UK to make

a binding declaration that it would

0:22:490:22:54

fully aligned in those areas. Some

Brexit Cabinet ministers said that

0:22:540:22:57

they don't like the language, too

strong and they hope the Prime

0:22:570:23:01

Minister won't use that language

tomorrow.

We'll see, but what is the

0:23:010:23:06

Brussels we action?

Michel Barnier

was pretty tough, saying the UK is

0:23:060:23:11

closing doors and going in the

direction of a free-trade agreement.

0:23:110:23:14

But I spoke to somebody who knows

the mind of Theresa May and this

0:23:140:23:19

person said that Brussels is

engaging in classic negotiating

0:23:190:23:22

posturing. This person told me they

believe that Theresa May absolutely

0:23:220:23:27

wants to get a deal and what we'll

be hearing is tough language

0:23:270:23:31

tomorrow but eventually a

compromise, if that is what it

0:23:310:23:35

takes.

Thank you for joining us.

0:23:350:23:40

Coming up, the front man from

Suede's new memoir.

0:23:400:23:49

I get the sense you don't really

like the association with Britpop?

0:23:490:23:52

I didn't like what it became.

0:23:520:23:54

I was writing, I was documenting

Britishness, Englishness,

0:23:540:23:56

whatever you want to call it

and I think those other bands that

0:23:560:23:59

came later were celebrating it.

0:23:590:24:00

I think that's the difference.

0:24:000:24:01

I documented it because it was part

of the world I saw around me.

0:24:010:24:04

I wanted to document real life.

0:24:040:24:06

The Italians go to the polls

on Sunday for the first general

0:24:060:24:09

election in five years.

0:24:090:24:10

Silvio Berlusconi is back.

0:24:100:24:13

And he's got some

new political allies -

0:24:130:24:15

parties on his right,

even the far right.

0:24:150:24:18

Discontent over migration

and persistent economic problems

0:24:180:24:20

are high on the agenda.

0:24:200:24:21

But with as many as 40%

of the electorate undecided there's

0:24:210:24:24

everything to play for.

0:24:240:24:25

Here's our diplomatic

Editor Mark Urban

0:24:250:24:33

Milan's Manzoni Theatre.

0:24:360:24:41

Where better for Italy's old stager

and ultimate political player

0:24:410:24:44

to work an ecstatic crowd?

0:24:440:24:48

Berlusconi may be banned

from holding office, but he's back,

0:24:480:24:52

thrilling supporters and proving

wrong those who confined him

0:24:520:24:54

to political oblivion.

0:24:540:25:01

Up in one of the boxes,

Laura Capella.

0:25:010:25:04

She's driven an hour

to see her idol in action

0:25:040:25:07

and she wasn't disappointed.

0:25:070:25:15

You may think of Berlusconi as right

wing but sharing the playbill

0:25:340:25:38

are people like Attilio Fontana

and his party the Lega Nord

0:25:380:25:41

or Northern League.

0:25:410:25:43

Such is the trend of Italian

politics that Berlusconi now sits

0:25:430:25:51

on the left of a right-wing bloc

with Lega and another

0:25:510:25:54

far right party.

0:25:540:25:54

The new allies almost competing

in attacks on immigrants that have

0:25:540:25:57

dominated the campaign.

0:25:570:26:00

There is talk in this campaign

about sending back hundreds

0:26:070:26:09

of thousands of immigrants.

0:26:090:26:11

Is that really

a practical proposition?

0:26:110:26:18

Lega has a long history

of racist politics.

0:26:340:26:37

One MP even blacking up

in parliament, saying he'd get

0:26:370:26:40

more attention that way.

0:26:400:26:44

It's often attacked Cecile Kyenge,

the country's first black minister.

0:26:440:26:47

A member of the ruling

Democrats who look set

0:26:470:26:52

to suffer in these elections,

she thinks Berlusconi has allied

0:26:520:26:54

himself with hate-mongers.

0:26:540:26:59

I'm a victim of the campaign

from these political parties.

0:26:590:27:05

Lega Nord had a political party,

Lega e Fratelli d'Italia.

0:27:050:27:11

They are investing

in fear of people.

0:27:110:27:15

I think that today our country must

take measures and sanctions

0:27:150:27:23

to all political leaders

and political parties

0:27:240:27:26

who invest in racism.

0:27:260:27:30

Across Milan there are plenty of

reminders of Italy's fascist years.

0:27:300:27:36

The architecture, like the politics,

eschews complexity,

0:27:360:27:44

instead clean,

straight, easily understood lines.

0:27:530:27:54

Then it was about Italian greatness.

0:27:540:27:56

Now it's about pledges by Berlusconi

and his Lega partners to deport

0:27:560:27:59

hundreds of thousands of immigrants.

0:27:590:28:00

Today, as in the 20s,

the right is using the language

0:28:000:28:03

of authoritarian populism.

0:28:030:28:04

Back then, Mussolini's targets

were other countries,

0:28:040:28:05

those that would deny

Italy its new age of greatness.

0:28:050:28:08

Today, the scapegoat is internal.

0:28:080:28:10

Immigrants.

0:28:100:28:13

And indeed the immigration question

has come to dominate

0:28:130:28:15

this election campaign.

0:28:150:28:21

In Sesto San Giovanni, near Milan,

they've recently elected a mayor

0:28:210:28:26

from Berlusconi's Forza party.

0:28:260:28:31

It marked the end of 72 years of

socialist control of the town hall.

0:28:310:28:39

In a few weeks the new mayor has

thrown out 208 illegal

0:28:400:28:43

immigrants, served many

with deportation orders and laid

0:28:430:28:45

plans to stop them coming back.

0:28:450:28:50

Sesto's story has many echoes

of Europe and indeed America.

0:29:170:29:25

Its heavy industries have been hit

by closures and the local economy

0:29:250:29:28

sank into the doldrums.

0:29:280:29:31

Alessandra Aiosa's family

used to have five shops.

0:29:310:29:35

Now it's down to one.

0:29:350:29:36

She approves of the

new mayor's policies.

0:29:360:29:39

Back in Milan, the patron

of the Asmara an Eritrea restaurant,

0:30:100:30:12

has been in Italy for 46 years.

0:30:120:30:15

He is a citizen.

0:30:150:30:17

In theory he has nothing

to fear but he's noticed

0:30:170:30:20

a change in the climate.

0:30:200:30:24

Exchanges like one with a lawyer

seeking a permit on his behalf belie

0:30:240:30:27

an underlying racism.

0:30:270:30:30

And do you feel that the situation's

worsened because so many people came

0:30:440:30:48

on the boats from Libya,

is that what's changed the climate,

0:30:480:30:51

or is there something else

going on, do you think?

0:30:510:30:57

What we have in this Italian

election is another chapter

0:31:180:31:22

in the industrial decline

of the West, and the faltering

0:31:220:31:24

with it of social democracy.

0:31:240:31:28

In its place, the rise of

nationalism and nativist sentiment.

0:31:280:31:31

For the moment, here, it targets

immigrants and immigration,

0:31:310:31:37

but one could just as easily see it

move on to attack the EU

0:31:370:31:41

and its institutions.

0:31:410:31:44

As the ground shifts, Lega,

who brought thousands of supporters

0:31:480:31:53

to Milan's piazza Duomo,

could, if the polls are right, be

0:31:530:31:56

on the verge of entering government.

0:31:560:32:00

Its leader Matteo Salvini has found

immigration touches deeper chords

0:32:000:32:08

than Lega's Eurosceptic messages,

though it also blames the EU

0:32:090:32:12

for creating the migration crisis

and leaving Italy to deal with it.

0:32:120:32:15

The interests of Europe, not Italy.

0:32:150:32:19

Having marketed itself

as a centre-right coalition,

0:32:190:32:25

Italy's far right, enabled

by its pact with Berlusconi,

0:32:250:32:28

may soon return to power.

0:32:280:32:31

How are you different

from the fascists of the 1920s?

0:32:310:32:33

Italy's election will be

decided on Sunday's vote,

0:33:090:33:13

but if these people get their way,

it could soon have a government

0:33:130:33:17

committed to deporting hundreds

of thousands of immigrants.

0:33:170:33:20

The band Suede are synonymous

with the birth of a musical

0:33:240:33:29

and cultural phenomenon,

Britpop, something Suede's lead

0:33:290:33:31

singer Brett Anderson is keen

to distance himself from.

0:33:310:33:34

And while other musicians often

chart the glory years, what Anderson

0:33:340:33:41

calls, coke and gold disc memoirs,

his own memoir Coal Black Morning

0:33:410:33:46

which was published today,

concentrates on his beginnings,

0:33:460:33:51

his rackety, impoverished childhood

with his mismatched parents,

0:33:510:33:53

his beautiful beloved art school

mother and the mercurial taxi driver

0:33:530:33:56

father who wandered the house

dressed as Lawrence of Arabia

0:33:560:33:58

playing the music of Franz Lizst.

0:33:580:34:01

I started off being a guitar

player and wanting to be

0:34:010:34:04

the quiet one at the back,

sort of thing, and I just wasn't

0:34:040:34:08

really good enough to be

the quiet one at the back.

0:34:080:34:11

The only other option left to me

was to be the singer.

0:34:110:34:18

Suede's eponymous first album

went straight to the top

0:34:190:34:26

of the charts in 1992 and won

the Mercury music prize.

0:34:260:34:29

For the band, which had

included Justine Frischmann,

0:34:290:34:33

who was also his partner

until they split and she left

0:34:330:34:36

to form Elastica, had taken

a while to get going,

0:34:360:34:39

and in his memoir,

Brett Anderson concentrates

0:34:390:34:41

on his own early failures.

0:34:410:34:44

Influenced by the Smiths

and compared to Bowie,

0:34:440:34:48

who was a fan of Suede,

the band became more experimental

0:34:480:34:51

than their Britpop pack and 25 years

on from their debut,

0:34:510:34:53

are about to release a new record.

0:34:530:34:58

It was time for a bit of reflection.

0:34:580:35:00

I just fancied writing something,

it was just one of those things.

0:35:000:35:03

I didn't have a deal or anything,

I wrote it for my son

0:35:030:35:09

and that's kind of where did genesis

of the book comes from.

0:35:090:35:12

We were dirt poor, existing

in penury in a cheap council house,

0:35:120:35:15

but my parents filled it

with trappings more akin

0:35:150:35:17

to the lives of upper-class

Hampstead intellectuals.

0:35:170:35:19

Mum's paintings were everywhere.

0:35:190:35:22

She'd decorated the whole place

with strong colours, midnight blues,

0:35:220:35:25

William Morris wallpapers

and her own rich velvet home-made

0:35:250:35:29

curtains in the windows,

and everywhere of course

0:35:290:35:32

was the deafening torrent

of my father's classical music.

0:35:320:35:37

He used to see music as this

sort of like charged

0:35:370:35:40

battle ground of opinion,

and for her music was just something

0:35:400:35:42

nice that you listened to.

0:35:420:35:44

She was much more visual,

she was an artist.

0:35:440:35:46

She spent most of her time painting,

and when she wasn't painting,

0:35:460:35:51

she'd be mending things and fixing

things and making things.

0:35:510:35:54

So it was a very creative

sort of environment.

0:35:540:35:58

The only way we could possess

things was by making them.

0:35:580:36:01

You grew up knowing

that there was no money?

0:36:010:36:04

I'm not sure.

0:36:040:36:06

I think later I became aware

of that, but when you're very young,

0:36:060:36:09

you don't really have that

sense of perspective.

0:36:090:36:11

Apart from a cheap electric oven,

we have no mod cons,

0:36:110:36:14

so my mother washed and dried

all of our clothes by hand,

0:36:140:36:17

something that seems unbelievable

to my pampered 21st-century self.

0:36:170:36:20

There was no central

heating in the house,

0:36:200:36:25

just a small fireplace in the lounge

and a little paraffin

0:36:250:36:27

heater in the kitchen.

0:36:270:36:32

The coal black mornings were brutal

and the ritual of lighting

0:36:320:36:34

and maintaining the fire assumed

a religious status.

0:36:340:36:36

You've chosen not to

put photographs in.

0:36:360:36:38

I feel I have an image of your

parents fairly clearly in my head,

0:36:380:36:41

but why did you decide not

to put photographs in?

0:36:410:36:44

It was a very conscious decision.

0:36:440:36:46

I wanted to make the writing

as descriptive as I can,

0:36:460:36:49

so that hopefully you don't really

need the photographs.

0:36:490:36:53

I just wanted to give the book

a kind of tone, I suppose.

0:36:530:36:58

You deliberately said that

you didn't want to do

0:36:580:37:06

a coke and discs memoir,

you wanted to do a memoir of,

0:37:060:37:09

you call it failure,

why do you call it failure?

0:37:090:37:11

Erm, well, that was the tone that

I thought, that was the sort of word

0:37:110:37:15

that I thought kind of summed up

a lot of my upbringing,

0:37:150:37:19

and my parents' situation

in the world, and also a lot

0:37:190:37:23

of the experience of being in Suede

in the early days was kind

0:37:230:37:27

of like failure after failure,

struggle after struggle.

0:37:270:37:31

It seemed to be the word that sort

of summed it all up.

0:37:310:37:35

That's why I ended up

finishing at the point that

0:37:350:37:38

I finished the book,

because I finished it where we got

0:37:380:37:41

signed and I thought

that was a very symbolic moment.

0:37:410:37:44

Enter Suede, who've been hailed

by the rock press as the best

0:37:440:37:47

new band in Britain.

0:37:470:37:49

Tonight, they make their first

television appearance.

0:37:490:37:56

There is a part in the book

where you're with Justine Frischmann

0:37:560:38:01

and your mother dies.

0:38:010:38:06

It was a huge, incredibly

influential period of my life,

0:38:060:38:12

where I met Justine and that opened

up so many vistas in my life.

0:38:120:38:16

You know, a year or so later,

my mum dies and these incredible

0:38:160:38:21

kind of clashing emotions

happening in me.

0:38:210:38:26

I think without those two events,

I think I probably wouldn't have had

0:38:260:38:32

this sort of sense of carpe diem

that I needed, in order

0:38:320:38:35

to make the band happen.

0:38:350:38:38

You then wrote a song

for your mother.

0:38:380:38:43

# See you, in your next life #.

0:38:430:38:50

The interesting thing about that

song The Next Life is when I wrote

0:38:510:38:54

it, I didn't really realise

what it was about, and it wasn't

0:38:540:38:59

till later that I kind of was able

to assess it and realised

0:38:590:39:02

that it was about that event.

0:39:020:39:04

# Far away...

0:39:040:39:08

# So far away #.

0:39:080:39:14

You talk in the book that actually

Justine Frischmann leaving the band,

0:39:140:39:18

in a sense, was the making of it?

0:39:180:39:21

Before Justine left,

she was kind of not really happy

0:39:210:39:23

with where we were going.

0:39:230:39:26

I think she wanted,

she had a different vision

0:39:260:39:28

for what she'd like Suede to be.

0:39:280:39:30

And I think that kind

of confused things.

0:39:300:39:32

She went on to do, to realise that

vision with Elastica, I think,

0:39:320:39:35

which was fantastic.

0:39:350:39:38

But I think that allowed us to do

what we ended up doing

0:39:380:39:41

with the songs on Dogma

and the more grandiose stuff.

0:39:410:39:48

I get the sense you don't really

like the association

0:39:480:39:50

with Britpop now?

0:39:500:39:52

I don't like what it became.

0:39:520:39:53

I was writing, I was documenting

Britishness, Englishness,

0:39:530:39:56

whatever you want to call it,

and I think those of other bands

0:39:560:40:01

that came later were celebrating it,

and I think that's the difference.

0:40:010:40:03

I documented it because it was part

of the world I saw around me

0:40:030:40:07

and I wanted to document real life.

0:40:070:40:11

It was almost like a slightly

scruffy, Mike Leigh kind of vision

0:40:110:40:16

of the world that I saw around me,

and I think it became a...

0:40:160:40:20

It mutated from a Mike Leigh film

into a Carry On film.

0:40:200:40:23

It was a period of creativity.

0:40:230:40:25

Do you think there's been a period

of creativity since like it?

0:40:250:40:28

I think it was the last big movement

in alternative music.

0:40:280:40:31

And it had value in that sense.

0:40:310:40:34

I think its rejection of American

cultural imperialism

0:40:340:40:36

was a really powerful statement.

0:40:360:40:42

And possibly the best

thing about it.

0:40:420:40:49

And the fact that it

moved alternative music

0:40:490:40:51

into the mainstream,

I think that was fantastic.

0:40:510:40:53

But finding worth out of it,

beyond those things

0:40:530:40:55

is quite difficult for me.

0:40:550:40:56

Brett Anderson, thank you very much.

0:40:560:40:57

Thank you.

0:40:570:41:03

That's all we have time for tonight.

0:41:030:41:06

But we leave you with a few tips

harvested from social media

0:41:060:41:09

on how to keep warm.

0:41:090:41:10

Goodnight.

0:41:100:41:12

MUSIC: Shelter From the Storm

- Bob Dylan

0:41:120:41:14

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS