Episode 3 Nolan Live

Lots to talk about on the big show tonight.

The row over a publicly-funded book called Bobby Sands Freedom Fighter.

We're also tackling the EU referendum.

And we've live music from a real rising star.

And it's all in front of a live Nolan audience.

We are the reason, so that you can all take part. You will see all the

details up on your screen. Our first debate of the night.

That's the title of a controversial new book.

The publisher got a ?5,000 grant from the Arts Council of Northern

But republicans say they should wise up.

Angry about what? I think the content of the book is such that it

should not have received public funding. People are free to publish

whatever they want but it should not have received the endorsement and

funding of the arts Council. And I say that for a number of reasons.

First, the book has been written in a format, a comic novel, it really

glamorises Bobby Sands... He is able he wrote a part of the community you

live in. -- he is a hero. I just have a strong view that if we are

putting role models in front of young people, and this is directed

very much at a young audience, if we are putting role models in front of

young people, Bobby Sands is not a good example. We should not be

encouraging young people to idolise those who were terrorists. It is a

bit rich for Nelson to be saying that, given the fact that he, in his

own publications, was awarded a grant to publishers book about

Belfast. And in my opinion, Bobby Sands is a role model for young

people. He was 27 years of age, he spent one third of his life in jail,

66 days on hunger strike and he got more votes than you will ever get.

Did you try to block a factory? He was charged along with four people,

including Joe McDonald, who also died on hunger strike, with having a

firearm. That is what they were convicted. There were sentenced to

15 years in jail. What would he have wanted to do with a gun? They were

on an IRA operation. So did they want to shoot somebody dead? They

wanted to protect... There are more guns in the society hailed by the

state forces than ever the IRA held. I guess... There are more guns used

by the state forces to kill civilians. And we have never got to

the bottom of collusion. I guess what I am asking is, and this is for

the benefit of the next generation as well, so let's take a young

dissident, who is reading that book and thinking maybe they could get

their hands on the gun, they did a good look at Bobby Sands as a role

model, "One day I can be a role model." When Bobby Sands was

arrested, that was the second time he was arrested. The first, in 1972,

he had a logical status because the British government, William

Whitelaw, conceded. And in the law that he was convicted under, they

recognised the political staters of people who were engaged in armed

activities against the state. But when you go people role models, I've

not got to be careful? Is Edward Carson a role model? He engaged...

He imported arms illegally from Germany, set up the first

paramilitary organisation of the 21st, 20th century. -- the 20th

century but so let's talk about that. What you got to acknowledge,

Nelson, is that Bobby Sands, whether you like it or not, he was a figure.

Have Republicans not got a right to remember him, honour him, call it

whatever they want- a hero, a role model? The book that has been

produced with public funding not only glamorises Bobby Sands and

turns them into a hero figure, I think, for young people, it also

adopts... The publisher would reject that. They might, but if you look at

the content, and I have looked at it, that is pretty clear. And I

should note that earlier on today the publisher said it was not aimed

at young people and in the same interview went on to say it was. So

I do not know what he was thinking about. It is not aimed at you! My

concern is that there are young people who are impressionable, who

could be influenced by that and similar publications. It is not only

the story of Bobby Sands, it is the whole narrative within the book,

which is essentially a pro-Sinn Fein, pro-IRA... 50 years of

discrimination, Bobby Sands was put out of his home in north Belfast by

loyalists. He went to live in Twinbrook. The history of this

state, which is something you deny, despite the fact that we were an

artificial minority in this state, we made up 60% of the people forced

to emigrate. We did not have a votes. Whenever we marched, we were

beaten into the ground. Duke Street, 1968, civil rights... John Gallagher

was shot dead in Armagh city in 1969, before the IRA fired the first

shot, the Unionist government killed nationalists. Let's despair and made

a couple of points... APPLAUSE

-- let's bear in mind a couple of points. Long before the 20th

century, Irish publicans were modern people. If you go back to the Irish

Republican brotherhood, who organised the 1916 rising, that was

a terrorist organisation. And for Danny Morrison to say that people

from the Catholic Nationalist society did not have votes. If it

was... THEY TALK OVER EACH OTHER

It did not matter whether you were a Protestant or a Roman Catholic, the

fact is that everybody on the electoral list, Protestant and

Catholic, whatever, you had a for Westminster elections and there was

also a vote for Stormont. We are talking about cancel... Who come in

Derry, a unionist minority dominated the Council for 50 years? Explain

that. He is talking Redken selections that is not what he said.

Well, I should not be surprised that somebody comes on this programme and

attempts to justify the sort of activity that was carried out by

Bobby Sands. I hope we would be moving beyond that and getting

beyond that. Don't you think, Nelson... Don't you think that part

of moving on, and that is why this programme is so interesting, I

reckon, you not think of moving on is about people like you

understanding that there is a different narrative from another

community, from about the people? And sadder than attack, attack,

attack, it is trying to understand? -- from another group of people. If

you had been in the context, living the life of Bobby Sands, do you

think you could have become a paramilitary? I think that there are

many people who were there at the start of the trouble is, as I was,

in my late teens, who look back and wonder what might or might not have

happened. The fact is, I took a conscious decision that was not the

road for me. You think Bobby Sands was just an ordinary... Criminals

not starve themselves to death. There was a point of principle at

least. Absolutely does a bit something that needs to considered

and export, I have no urgent about that. But I do have an argument that

portrays him as a superhero. This is comic quite stale publication. It is

a graphic novel. -- comic style publication. It is the graphic

novel. Most people looking that it will look at the content and the

edges a style of a comic. There are words in it but it is in the style

of the illustrations are of a comic people stop we can look, the

illustrations while we we're talking. It is aimed, I believe, at

turning Bobby Sands and others like him, and the IRA, into hero figures

for young people. I would prefer that our young people growing up now

today had better role models. Here is a young Pearson and our audience.

Go ahead. What frustrates and angers me is that the arts Council claim

they cannot fund certain things, like cross community performing arts

in Belfast, but yet they can find ?5,000 to invest in a book. I just

don't know how that... But why should they not have? Why would you

not invest in people's education, for their future careers, instead of

a book? Maybe that is part of somebody's education. The arts

Council has funded many things, including, for example, a play by a

former UVF live prisoner, Bobby Niblock, a play called Reason To

Believe, about UDA prisoners who came out of jail and could not cope.

I think that was meritorious. That was a good thing to fund. But you

are not investing in performing arts courses at Belfast. I am not his

books present for the arts Council but they do. The person in the

audience makes a valid point which is added M pressure on budgets,

particularly in the arts sector, and we have seen the evidence of that

very recent days with protests by people from a range of arts

organisations, at a time when the arts budget is under pressure, it is

an appalling use, even though it may just be a modest sum of ?5,000, it

is a wrong use. From what I can gather, it is a comic, and I have to

agree with nothing, it is a comic based at young kids. It is a graphic

that. It is the same comics I read as a kid. Apparently all age groups

read these. It is a comic. It is nothing but indoctrination. We are

paying for it from the public purse. It is public indoctrination of young

kids. It is not acceptable! It has a full page endorsement at the back, a

personal message from Gerry Adams. It reads like a Sinn Fein propaganda

sheet. No, it not. That would be Gerry Adams, your Npower within

Stormont. Let us remind you. THEY TALK OVER EACH OTHER!

You may not have realised that Gerry Adams went to Dublin.

Here's the president of Sinn Fein Do you want me to and to him or you? I

am always the bed by! I will not argue with that point. -- I am

always the big boy. As regards Sinn Fein in Parliament, Sinn Fein

install Stormont, in the Dail, I personally do not understand at all

why people vote for them. I cannot understand that. Because it is a

party... Sorry, if... This is nothing to do with that. You asked

my views on them. Can you not accept that this man... This man at the

heart of this story is a hero in Danny's community. Anybody, if

you... Internationally. And there are also people here and around the

world who recognise that the IRA was a terrorist organisation, there are

people here who have suffered as a result of IRA terrorism. There are

people who are suffering the loss of limbs and all sorts of mental...

Sorry, if you would just let me finish! The IRA murdered people in

the Roman Catholic community as well. In fact, the IRA murdered more

Roman Catholics and British army ever did. No, they did not. Several

hundred were murdered by the IRA. And yet you are here defending them.

It doesn't change the nature of the conflict. It doesn't change the

fact... The fact that you support unionism, which for 50 years

discriminated against my community and which led to the conflict in

1969 and 1970. People had curfews, shot dead demonstrators, civil

rights demonstrators in 1972, tortured prisoners. That was... So

do not give me the stuff come this stuff about terrorism. Your

community, your government that you supported, down the years did this

to one side of virginity. Now, let's leave that behind and let's get on

and build the future, which allows people from the Loyalist -- one side

of the community. Let's allow people from the Nationalist side to tell

her story. You would be happy with the Michael Vaughan freedom fighter

bid. You would be happy with public money, if the big suggested he was a

Protestant defender, you be happy with public money? If it was

culturally worthy, yes. Would it be? I do not know until it is ready. I

am prepared to read anything, and I do read quite a bit. So I would be

prepared for any of those Loyalist paramilitaries to rate their story

and we have to accept it. I cannot let the other point pass. I think it

is side that Danny Morrison is still coming on here, in the Euro 2016,

and trying to justify 30, 40 years of IRA butchery, slaughter, murder

and mayhem. The number of people who work... THEY TALK OVER EACH OTHER.

Who was Denis Donaldson collude in with? Your comrades? Collusion is

part of the history of the higher rate down through the years. -- IRA.

He was only allowed to publish seven pages of a huge document. When Gerry

Adams can't remember being in the IRA, the chances of getting to the

truth are pretty slim. When Martin McGuinness won't answer questions...

Totally irrelevant to the history of unionism, collusion, murder,

discrimination and murder in this state. How do we get past this

Christmas you are working in government with Sinn Fein. You work

in government with them. Former IRA men. Young people vote for them. I

am elected to the Assembly. And they are elected? I don't understand that

and I deplore that and it is a fact and I have to accept is but I say

this, we don't want to see another generation coming up in this country

where young people end up in prison, it behind bars, losing their lives

but that sort of propaganda which is pure republican propaganda,

following an IRA Sinn Fein narrative, that is the sort of

material that would encourage people in that direction. The publishers

which neither. Well, he might. -- the publishers would deny that. The

Arts Council hadn't even read it. Let's look at what the Arts Council

to the Nolan show tonight. A total of ?5,116 was awarded towards the

Bobby Sands but... -- book. Interestingly enough when I spoke to

the Arts Council -- console this morning because I rang them and I

got the figures with the amount of money involved, a modest sum of

money but they didn't even know there was a Gerry Adams section at

the end of it when they signed off. Nelson... What about a bug that

represented the National community? -- nationalist. There is a

distinction between constitutional nationalists and the sort of

republican militant doesn't that you have defended over the years. You

defend the UVF in 1912 about illegally imported arms from

Germany, would you defend that? Very simply this. At that point in

time,... Many people were murdered by the IRA, UVF. In 1912. There is a

big difference between what happened in 1912 and planting bombs on buses

trying to blow up school children on buses firing rockets at a primary

school in my own constituency. That is the sort of thing that the

organisation that you have defended as Don through the years. A rebel

was fired through country house. ... Rifle. I don't defend that sort of

thing. You down through the years have defended that. Gerry Adams has

defended IRA terrorism, do you defend that sort of thing? Do you

think it is right? I believe the IRA campaign was legitimate. It was

legitimate to build bombs on school bus? You are very selective. On the

radio this morning, you turned round and you said to me, this morning,

that the IRA had guns in August 1969 when the Falls Road was burned down.

Did nine-year-old Patrick Rooney have a gun when the RUC shot him

dead? Of course not. Whenever a police officer in London was brought

across to investigate, the RUC close ranks and wouldn't cooperate. A

nine-year-old kid, this was before the Provisional IRA was formed, a

nine-year-old getting shot dead in flats. The RUC did that. What effect

would that have only people who live around there, that there was no

justice? Of course they would be angry. Of course they rise. Can you

understand that? I can see the anger. Can you understand the hurt

when a nine-year-old child gets scaled within a community? I can

understand anger when a child gets killed. ... Killed. By everybody.

Subsequently by everybody. I will explain it and put it in context.

The point is, I believe the response from the IRA was legitimate.

Appalling. Girl in the black hair, go ahead. Nelson Mandela went to

jail for most of his life from the same reason and he became a hero for

it I was there in 69 when the war started outside my door. It burned

us out our house, the B specials, I was eight old. We were refugees and

will put into schools for sleep. You started it. So you expect us to sit

and there and take it, I don't think so. A Protestant person was put out

of a house in Ardoyne. What is your first name? Anna. These discussions

have happened before on programmes like this, but where I think we are

wrapped in 2016 is understanding where do we go from here? Do we

listen to each other stories? Does something, but of the stories? How

we got a better understanding? Can you understand his anger? Money was

spent on Matt Burke this meant a lot of money on Twaddell Avenue -- that

book. Parades, bonfires, not a word said about it from you. APPLAUSE.

Thank God, despite Nelson's attempt to airbrush history, Derry City, one

man, one vote, definitely not. What happened on bloody Sunday, my people

that you would revere and hold in high esteem, the UDR and the RUC, in

my eyes are terrorists. You classified one of my heroes as a

terrorist. Definitely not. APPLAUSE. What you are using here... You are

trying to censor the republican story. He sacrificed his life for so

many days. No one is talking about not publishing it but should public

money go towards it? That is the question. Public money has sponsored

many areas of art. Bobby Niblock's plate was based on two X UVF

prisoners who came out of jail and one was dying of cancer and that was

sponsored by the Arts Council. The fact is there are artforms which

enabled... You're almost incapable of waiting for someone answers a

question. Let's get back to that. There are many artforms, literary

expression, plays, books, they enable people to explore issues,

consider them, but that sort of propaganda in the format but it is

done, the narrative that's been adopted is not in anyway consider,

it is pure republican propaganda. I will have to rush. In the baseball

cap, go ahead. I think the guy that said about Belfast met, it was a

really good point, putting money into cross community, bringing stuff

up like this, we will not go forward, the country will not go

forward. APPLAUSE. If Bobby Sands was a freedom fighter, Danny

Morrison, whose freedom is he fighting for? He was fighting for

the freedom of his country. Nelson was fighting for that. Did he

achieve it? The unionist community had no problem with a united Ireland

as long as they were in control, and when the extension of the franchise

came about in 1885, that is when we found that the Ulster Unionist

Council organised around separate... Was anything achieved? He doesn't

understand the conditions he was living in. He wasn't allowed to

exercise, radio, clothes, the cut of the light, he wasn't allowed to go

to the toilet. He wasn't allowed a letter, a pen, tobacco. And yet

after the hunger strike, British Government can see that everything,

everything that those men died for and when I went into the H blocks in

the 1990s I had 25 demands. They give everything away... One more

point and then we have to make move on. Originally, in 1972, they

conceded political studies, called special categories studies. ...

Starters. They caused the problem in the deal. No excuse. There is no

excuse for 30 years of slaughter and butchery by the IRA and the best you

can do will in no way ever justify what they did. The best will

never... Would you ever concede that there was discrimination and

equality, will you ever concede that? It depended where you live. I

lived in North Belfast that might not have been much different from

yours. People in the Shankill work living under the same conditions. I

wouldn't be going round like you and maybe others, defending the IRA,...

I guess as we wrap this up, the question is as I said at the

beginning of this dudgeon, where do we go from all this? Would we go

from all this anger and disagreement as a society? These two gentlemen at

this guest tonight represent some of the opposing views in Northern

Ireland, so where do we go from here? Give them a round of applause,

ladies and gentlemen. APPLAUSE. Don't forget we keep the debates

going on the Nolan Show on BBC Radio Ulster,

weekdays from 9 to 10.30am. It's 9am, if they Nolan show on BBC

Radio Ulster... I couldn't believe how lazy and how dirty they were.

That is absolutely disgraceful and inflammatory language. You don't

even know what is going on around you. You've got to pinch yourself

this morning when you think that Northern Ireland is down national

news because of a cake. APPLAUSE. Thank you. We aren't the

radio show. Is it time to quit

the European Union or stay put? June 23 is the referendum date,

but the debate is already Isn't dead, Sammy Wilson? You want

us out of this. -- isn't it. I have always taken this view for many

reasons. People like me -- elect me to Westminster and yet so many of

the laws which affect them on a day-to-day basis, tax, VAT,

regulations, rules that they have to obey, but decided that Westminster

but decided in Brussels by people who are not elected, not

accountable, who can't be scrutinised and those laws cannot be

changed. It has an effect, a wider effect on many parts of our society.

Secondly of course, money which you pay as taxpayers goes into European

coppers. To be wasted. ?10 billion a year on things like subsidising

people to breed rabbits. I'd think rabbits need that to be subdivided

to breed. Order to standardise the flushing of toilets. Money thrown

into the bog I suppose you could say and yet every year, while we have

austerity, ?10 billion of taxpayers money is thrown into the European

project and of course on top of that, we don't have control of our

borders, we don't have control of who comes into our country, who

stays in our country. Hell of a suite of this, I'll tell you. Those

are all the reason. Enough to... By not telling as you have no idea, no

idea how we would rewrite trading agreements with Europe, will Loftus

Road from scratch, wouldn't we? It is not a leap into the dark, if it

was... If it was a leap into the dark, there is a nice big fat

cushion that will land on the old with a ?10 billion paid every year

into the European Union. Can you guarantee that to farmers? You have

no idea what farmers would get? We do know that we paid ?10 billion in

more than we get out at the European Union, that is money lost to our

exchequer and as far as the trade agreements are concerned, why

wouldn't Europe want to keep trade agreements with those?

You do not know. They might put a lady on it. Why? We sell less goods

to them than we do to ours. That is what happens. When countries like

Norway and subtle, which are not part of the EU, to come to trading

agreements with the EU, they have to pay into the EU, have to accept the

regulations of the EU and they have no place at the top table. It is an

illusion to believe you can leave and not be subject to any

regulations. The difference is we have an ?87 billion trade deficit

with the EU. Why would they want to put up trade barriers against

Britain? Because they will not give you access. They sell more goods to

us than we do to them. It is to their advantage to have the free

trade. There are billions of pounds worth of goods. 2.6 billion traded

from Northern Ireland into the EU. One in eight jobs related to trade

with the EU in Northern Ireland. Why would we get access to that single

market if we did not abide by the regulations? One second! One second!

Do not start! This has been ticking off, obviously, across the water as

well, because Boris Johnson and David Cameron, they, in the same

party who were calling each other friends, but what has played out in

public over the last few days, it is kicking off.

I will go to Parliament and propose that the British people decide our

future in Europe. The last thing I wanted was to go against David

Cameron or the government. # Should I stay or should I go?.

# My right honourable friend, the Prime Minister, could you explain to

the house and to the country in exactly what we this deal returns

sovereignty? It means that the ratchet of the European Court taking

power away from this country cannot happen in future.

Explain to people, make this real, as to how it will affect their

lives. I will tell you what, I reckon this discussion can be very

quick switch off. If we go or stay? If we go, it is a leap in the dark,

and I know we have been using a similar questions to ask all the

ministers what the plan B years and it is quite clear that there is not

one. You talk about the UK's deficit and it is probably fair to say that

the UK is a net contributor, but that money is not coming here if it

is being saved, it is very clear the Conservative Government have no

interest in spending any more money in Northern Ireland than they have

to. Northern Ireland's nominal portion of that would be about 400

million. We get that back just in structural funds and agricultural

funds alone, not even including the trade boost, the modernising funds,

the peace funds, but it is not just about the cash, and believe me it is

considerably better for us to be in the European Union. It is about

values, it is about joint endeavour, it is about peace building. Europe

was the greatest conflict resolution project in the history of the world.

Ten years after the devastation of the Second World War, the Treaty of

Rome, and there has not been conflict substantially in Europe

since. First of all, if we make a contribution of ?10 billion per year

to the the EU, is that money were to come back to the United Kingdom,

that would be more money to spend on services in Northern Ireland and in

the rest of the United Kingdom. And secondly, it is nonsense about the

EU bringing peace in Europe. The EU did not bring peace, Natal brought

peace in Europe. It was the American presence in Europe that ensured

peace. Europe did not even have an army to bring MEPs. You do not need

an army to bring peace! You do. -- to bring peace. Clearly you do. If

you look at the recent conflicts which have developed in Europe

recently, most of them have been caused as a result of the tensions

caused by straitjackets of European policies and the latest one, of

course, poor Greece is now living... So we break it up and everybody goes

into their shells? There is an immigration problem because the EU

opened its borders. The SDLP is a Nationalist party, do not believe in

national sovereignty? No, we are internationalists. We make many

decisions at the local, and regional, level and are involved in

every Parliament that has a say but international as is the fight that

there are a lot of things, no matter how much decisions you do locally,

climate change, refugee issues, crime, they do not stop at the

border. So as a Nationalist party we say it would be devastating... It

would be devastating for North -South relations.

THEY TALK OVER EACH OTHER it would also be devastating for Unionists.

If the UK leaps... Look at the problems we have the economy at the

moment. You can guarantee the Scots will leave the union and the union

will break up if we leave the EU. You're not shouting for the people

of Northern Ireland, because economic liberal be devastated by

the floss and you're clearly not shouting for the union either.

Vernon's party was guilty of this is. I heard all of these the

Enlightenment is when Vernon's party was trying to drag us into the euro.

Nobody would trade with us, we would have a different currency,

investment would dry up. What happened in the meantime question we

stayed out of the euro and all the predictions that were made... All

the predictions... They never came true. Let Vernon Street. We stayed

out of the euro for very good reasons and what we have done... You

tried to drag us in. We kept us vote of the Euro! The serious point about

it, though, is that we have always said, and the Prime Minister to be

fair, the current deal that he has got, what we do is we get what is in

the benefits for our country from the European Union, we stay in the

union because it is a benefit and we keep out of the beds would not want

to be in. I want to go to truffles. Hello, Roger. It is great to be on

the show. -- Brussels. If you get your way, there will be border

patrols! Border patrols! On the Irish border! That is going to be

the next. Come on, Stephen, there was three movement -- there was free

movement across that border before it was amended and after we have

left. You can guarantee that, can you? I cannot personally guarantee

it, because I am only an MEP, but there was before, there will be

again, the British government would be absolutely committed to that

process, and to free trade across the border, so frankly that is a red

herring. Can I tell you how it is not a red herring? You're one of the

people who boasts about the controls that you will be able to implement

on immigration. So if you're actually not going to console

borders, how are you going to stamp down on immigration? We're only

talking, I present, about the border between Northern Ireland and the

public. We will have border control around the rest the country, and

Ireland, I am sure, because of the outside Schengen, the Republic will

want to make its own appropriate arrangements to control its own

borders. Maybe it is just me being completely insane here, but if

somebody therefore wants to gain entry to the United Kingdom, the

Europe, the flight to Dublin and then they take the train up to

Northern Ireland. Has that not crossed mine?! Well... It has

crossed my mind now you have mentioned that...

CHEERING So on reflection, do you need border

patrols? Stephen, that is nonsense. Does that Irish Republic not control

its borders? Of course it does. Before we joined the European Union,

we had common travel arrangements with the Irish Republic. Before

Schengen and all the other controls, we had a common travel arrangement

with the Irish Republic. Since we have you joined the European Union,

those controls have still been in place. The Irish Republic is not a

conduit at present... But there cannot be... Nobody has argued it is

a conduit at present for illegal immigration into the rest of the

united kingdom. Let's... Let's let Roger speak. One second! Stephen,

your resume that the Irish Republic does not control its borders. I do

not think that is the case and I think appropriate arrangements can

well be made between Northern Ireland, the United Kingdom and the

Republic of Ireland so that we can maintain that free movement across

that border, and of course free trade across that order as well. Go

on, Claire. This leads to the other issue of trade. We have heard all of

this stuff, and of course Vernon immediately brings it back to Norway

and Switzerland, which urges more countries with a sort of quasi-for

the membership relationship with the EU. All around the world, there are

countries which trade with Europe, and the idea that you have to be in

the single market to trade but it is frankly absurd. OK, Roger, there is

a delay, so hold on for a second. You have not outlined how those...

Those trade agreements would take years to come into place, especially

while we are trying to prepare ourselves. Add in terms of the hold

on, Roger! THEY TALK OVER EACH OTHER

There are 30,000 plus people living here who are the backbone of many

industry here, it is back on whether they have contribute and helped to

grow our economy. What about 1 million British people who live in

Spain? What happens to them, there is no answer. Let's deal with trade

issue. There is an answer! Roger, stop! If he does not stop, M Doctor

himself! I have got a couple of points, you talk about the tenderly

impenetrable fave, while proving at Stormont we can go to remain ?4 very

quickly without any results. -- you talk about the ?8 billion. And there

is uncertainty about jobs in Northern Ireland, is it a good thing

to provide more uncertainty to big companies that could provide jobs

here for the people of Northern Ireland? That is a question for

Sammy, and before we put it to you, let's hear, for example, from Nigel

Smith, from the CBI, where are you, Nigel? Do you think it would be in

the interests of business to leave the EU? The CBI in 2013 dead and

enormous piece of work, I have got it with me this evening, across the

UK about 80% of members say which is staying with any reformed European

Union. From a Northern Rail in perspective, the three big issues

are that we have a very big agri- food sector, we explored about 57%

to Europe, about 45% for the UK, and foreign direct investment. We are on

the cusp of winning any lower corporation tax, having been put

into to transform the economy. All the research indicates that the UK,

which is the most successful, 75% of those invested want to be part of

the single market. It is more important than corporation tax. We

could end up throwing up benefits there. There is one of the voices of

business. Is it not strange that you have the DUP economy minister, the

DUP first Minister going against the voices of the business community?

We're not going against the voices of the business Kennedy because

David Cameron wrote a letter and tried to get the business community

to sign up to it and two thirds of the business community would not

sign up to it, although one third signed up, and was published only

the other day. So there is not unanimity. You would reflect that,

you are businessman as well. If you look at what to do a set, JCB,... He

is backing you, stop it! I cannot understand is politics of fear we

are hearing, the black holes and everything. I believe in positive

politics. The positive politics is that if we did it on a local basis,

if we get out of Europe, the 250 million per year that we have to set

aside for the corporation tax, we would not need to do it any more.

That is because of European eels. That is immediately freed up and

that is 250 million over the first five years.

The important thing is that is not scaremongering to point out, I do

not think, what are the risks and uncertainties that would be created

if we were to come out of the EU. The risk for business, as I have

said, this huge Malia Obama of trade that goes on between Northern

Ireland and the EU... I want to hear from a farmer, William Taylor. Go

on. From the farming community's perspective, we would like to make

it clear, and organisation's point of view, that we are on the plus per

side of wanting to stay in the EU. Simply because the history of the

Westminster successor governments does not board well for farmers. If

anybody remembers Margaret Beckett's solely comment, who worries about

farmers, the world is awash with food. Sorry, we are running out of

time. First of, there was agriculture is aboard before we ever

went into the EU. Secondly... No guarantees! And as a farmer you will

know that the EU subsidy scheme is changing and will actually take

money out of agriculture in Western Europe and put it into eastern

Europe. So farmers have a very uncertain future in Europe. Not a

certain future. We are out of time against us get our guests a round of

applause! to listen to one of

the most up and coming artists I was listening to this guy

in rehearsals earlier on today He recently supported

Sam Smith and Ed Sheeran, and we can announce,

exclusively here on Nolan Live, that he will be playing

his first ever headline gig His debut album Bitter Pill has

already gone platinum in Ireland, and is released in

the UK on 11th March. With his breakthrough

hit The Book Of Love, # The book of love

is long and boring. # It's full of charts

and facts and figures. # In fact that's where

music comes from. # The book of love

is long and boring. # It's full of flowers

and heart-shaped boxes. # And things we're

all too young to know. Beautiful, absolutely beautiful,

thank you. Just a word of warning that some

of you may find some of the details Aodhan Woods was just 17

when he was tortured and sexually assaulted by two people he called

friends two years ago. His attackers were jailed this week

and he has bravely waived his right to anonymity to talk

about the ordeal he suffered. Thank you for coming in. Thank you.

These were friends of yours? Yeah, I would call them my best friends. Can

you to take us back to then? What did you think you're going to the

house for? I was going to the house to give them the money for drugs

that they forced me to sell which obviously didn't sell enough drugs,

so when I entered the flat it felt like something bad was going on. But

I didn't think that was going to happen because they were my best

friends. I had known one of them two years and one of them for a year.

When I got them, they threw me down onto the sofa, locked me in the

cupboard, that pillow cases of my head and sexually assaulted me as

well as holding knives to my throat and putting cigarettes out on me.

What were they saying to you? One of them said he was going to kill me

and I will not leave the flat again, he knows people who would dispose of

my body and I deserved everything I got. What confuses me immediately if

these were two of your best friends? Yeah. So that must have really...

Were you high on drugs at the time? When I entered the flat they made me

take drugs, yes, so I was pretty high. So your two best friends are

sexually assaulting you, burning cigarettes into your body, how are

you trying to process that? What is happening in your head? The whole

time I was completely numb. I was overwhelmed. I just couldn't imagine

anything like that happening. I was shocked, I really was, I just didn't

see that coming. How long did they keep you in the cupboard? It must

have been about ten, 15 minutes but it felt like an eternity. And they

had tidied up? Yes and put pillowcases over my head -- tide you

up. Wrapped me up with a belt so I couldn't move. Presume you link --

presumably were pleading with them to stop? I tried my best to get them

away from me and let them lead the flat, but it wasn't happening. What

was happening to you when you said stop? I got hit. They didn't say

anything, just hit me. Were they trying to justify it in their head?

What were they telling you when they were doing at? Scaring me into

selling more drugs for them because they said they didn't sell the drugs

again, it would all happen to me again. -- if I didn't sell the drugs

again. Do you know, you look so vulnerable, you really do, which

makes it even more extraordinary that you're speaking out about this.

This was male on male rape? Yes. Not very many meals is big about this,

why did you choose to do so? Because of what you said, but many males

speak out about it and I want to show that if I speak out about it

there as well, I am not doing it for myself. APPLAUSE.

After this had happened, after they had raped you, they untied you? What

happens when they have untied you? I was too scared to try to get away

from them at this point but one of them left the flat. I don't know

where he actually went, I stayed with the other one and I didn't want

to leave, I said, I can't leave and I was too scared to try and even

attempts so I just stayed with them. Is it true they should go hand?

Yeah, they shook my hand up there and had the cheek to tell me they

were still my friends. ... Shook your hand. What did they say? They

said was everything OK and I thought to myself, there were no mate of

mine. And you went to the police? Next morning. I went down to a

friend of mine's house and she told me to go round to the house so she

took me around and I told my mum about it. My mum rang the police for

me. Is it embarrassing to talk about it? Not at all, no. I'm wondering,

when you go through a court process, I guess part of the reason why some

people don't come forward is they find it might be humiliating,

talking about sexual assault, what was your mindset? I totally

understand why people would find it embarrassing, but I just didn't. I

was so open about it. They said the reasons they were doing it was

because I would be too afraid to tell anyone so I told people just to

show that I am not afraid. You know, there is... There is absolutely,

obviously no justification in this world for what they did to you and

that is not remotely what I am at the next question, but I am sitting

here looking at a vulnerable young man and I'm thinking to myself, why

were you in that very dodgy, murky underworld of drugs in the first

place? How did you let yourself get into that? And that is nothing to do

with you being assaulted in this vicious way. I didn't really choose

to be involved in it, it's just my friends, friends at the time, they

got into the wrong crowd which led me to be in the wrong crowd because

I was always with them and I guess that is white and managed to get

myself into it. Yeah, and then you are trapped? Yeah, couldn't get out,

because it was so... They pressured me, I couldn't go to anyone and I

had to sell the drugs for them. It is a story in itself this, the

pressured, once you income of the pressure they put on you. Once you

are in it is hard to get out. What is the psychological impact of this,

do you get flashbacks? Yeah, well, these days I don't get many

flashbacks, but they were wild at the start, so vivid I would even

sometimes believe I was still back in that fight. I can't go into

confined spaces any more like small cupboards, that is understandable. A

few people said to me that is the normal reaction if they have been

locked in a cupboard like that. And how does the PTSD which you suffer

from actually work? How does it manifest itself? During a nightmare

or can it be during the day that you see the scenes again? Any time. I

could be sitting talking to you right now and it could come out of

nowhere. It is very scary because I never expect it to happen and it

just takes over me and it is hard to explain, it really is, it is not

good. Have they gone away? Yeah, yeah, I still get them from time to

time but they are not as vivid as they were because I try my best to

forget about what happened and I guess that helps me with preventing

any flashbacks. I think it's extraordinary that you have gone

public with this. I really do. You're going to be OK, and you?

You've got quite an optimistic outlook on life now, don't you? Of

course, I don't let anyone drag me down. APPLAUSE. I know that some of

you watching this might have been affected by this.

And if you've been affected in any way by Aodhan's story

and would like details of organisations which offer advice

and support, go online to bbc.co.uk/actionline.

Thank you so much for coming in. Give him a round of applause, ladies

and gentlemen. APPLAUSE. Wow. I think among all the political

debates that we do, one of the reasons for having a show like this

is to give a platform to a young man like that, so thanks so much and

thank you for watching tonight, we'll be back on BBC Radio Ulster,

morning at nine o'clock. I'm about to go on to Twitter and Facebook

right now, good night everybody. I've kept what happened to me

buried away for 50 years.