Episode 3 Nolan Live

If that is all happening on the big show tonight. Huge changes at

Stormont. What difference would think you? I'll be talking to

Northern Ireland manager Michael O'Neill. And we all hear one man 's

story of living with Tourette's. And it is all happening in front of a

live studio audience. We liked this audience tonight.

Thank you for joining us on BBC One. Before we start, there are some

breaking news. The daily Mirror is reporting a data breach within

prison officer details. The chairman of the Prison Officers' Association

has told Nolan Live this involves every single member of prison of the

staff and in addition, civil servants and contractors. This is

what he told us, I can confirm that...

We have been working on this for the past hour. A senior government

source said they believe the information was only sent to one

person. The Department of Justice has confirmed an investigation is

underway. In a statement, they said...

This is front-page news in the Mirror tomorrow. It is their

exclusive. There it is on the front page. I am sure that they will have

a lot to say about that tomorrow. First they for the Justice Minister

and she has got that happening. It is very worrying for those prison

officers and their families, they are big servants and they do a very

hard job. Hopefully the investigation will find out that the

league has not gone too far. We have to deal with the poison ideology

that means prison 's are still being targeted. That is the bigger

challenge. I emphasise again that it has undergone to one person but the

breach could have gone to many others. I have worked closely with

prison officers. They are doing a sterling job for everyone across our

community. They will want to hear from the Minister for Justice as

soon as the, the full extent of the breach and assurances that

everything is being done to isolated. It is power-sharing but

not as we know it. With just the DUP and Sinn Fein in power, along with

the independent Unionist Claire Sugden as Justice Minster, the other

parties all turned down ministries and the new dawn of government and

opposition politics. What does it actually mean, Mark Devonport? We

will see over the next few weeks and months. It is a different shape to

the government. It is dominated now by the big two harpies. Some would

say that it always was, but they still had to try and corral these

parties in the same direction when they were splitting off in different

directions. We might have a lively and noisy assembly floor because we

have these parties obviously in opposition, the Ulster union is, the

SDLP, the Alliance, and the Greens, the government should be a little

bit more coordinated and on message, maybe with fewer leaks, but there

will still be that pension between the DUP 's policies and Sinn Fein

's, which many important points they are far apart. If we think about

what has happened here, in the justice ministry job, it has had a

lot of news coverage. Sinn Fein have gone into government with a party

that has said you're not getting the justice ministry job, you're not

good enough for it, Sinn Fein don't consider that to be a red line. Some

people said that they were pragmatic and went into government anyway. But

to say to the nationalist community, your party because of the side

you're on will not get that justice ministry job, my goodness, it is a

big thing to do. I think it is a problem. 20 years on, that no

nationalist need apply and with the best will in the world, I wish

Claire Sugden well, and she capable woman with integrity, but why

somebody with the mandate of 3000 votes was Ford the boat and a party

with 85,000 votes wasn't... But do you think that is really what is

being said, no nationalist need apply? It was the right of the SDLP

to get that by D'Hondt, but if they are able to tolerate each other in

the roles of health and Education Minister they should be able to

tolerate each other in other roles. You have to wonder what agenda do

they think is going to be followed, the DUP. Why do they not feel that a

nationalist is fit for that role? Halo, DUP, sorry you could not come

in tonight, hello, everyone in Sinn Fein, sorry you couldn't come into

answer any of these questions, but we have many people who watch this

show and I promise them that I will continue to ask the question is

whether you turn up or not. People are looking at their elected

representatives and if you think that I am not asking this question

is because you're not here, Sinn Fein, think again. That is a

straight message from me. Some of the things that have not advanced in

the last nine years, the programme for government has no ambition.

There are lots of things like north- south working, like the double lock,

that is why the DUP and Sinn Fein don't want SDLP and parties like

that to be in the justice ministry. There is no way that Sinn Fein would

all right the DUP saying to them, no nationalist need apply, is there?

That is what has happened. It is worse than that. We had the stark

reality today of a DUP- Sinn Fein dominated executive that has said no

at this early stage to reform of the petition of concern that has been

used to block progress on key social issues such as marriage equality,

for example, no progress on integrated education, noted a map of

investment on skills that we need for job creation and no to a core

principle framework on dealing with the past. Those are the issues that

we will be going to opposition about. As a format Sinn Fein

candidate, what do you make of what they have accepted in terms of the

DUP 's message to them about justice? If you take it to face

value, you could say that the DUP outmanoeuvre Sinn Fein today on the

justice ministry. A former Sinn Fein candidate saying that, outmanoeuvre?

Taking it at face value, one of the things about Sinn Fein and the DUP,

they come to secret agreement sometimes over things. That is why

it is going to be important to see the detail of the programme for

government. The context is important. We are coming out of a

cycle of elections were the nationalist community has declined

to vote in increasing numbers. We are at the lowest point in terms of

nationalist turnout before the IRA ceasefire. There seems to be a

delivery deficit within nationalism. So what did you be seeing that I am

not going to allow Sinn Fein the justice ministry, we know the last

mandate that should have been set... Arlene Foster is the First Minister,

is she not supposed to take everything at face value no matter

what their religion is, no matter what their background is, no matter

what the politics is, and if a nationalist is the best person for

the justice ministry, should Arlene Foster not, in this fresh start, be

able to cope with that? Let me look under the table and see if the DUP

will answer that! That is being idealistic. We have this because we

are divided society. The role of the Deputy First Minister, Mark

McGuinness. It is going to be important, the content of the

programme for government. Sinn Fein have their own areas. We can see

that they have to be seen to deliver on this mandate. That's from the

choice of the apartments they took. The DUP can answer from under the

table or wherever they are tonight. Just to explain how this came about.

You'll remember there was a nightmare story as far as the union

were concerned, Jerry Kelly was going to be the next Justice

Minister, and when they negotiated the devolution of policing out the

notion of having a cross - community election and have David Forde in the

job was to avoid having somebody who was a former IRA player sitting in

that justice roll. One thing I would say, as Claire Hanna has pointed

out, they ended up having to go to extremes, picking out an independent

Unionist MLA to carry out the job, but we have seen a generational

change in our politicians. We are seeing an echelon of Sinn Fein

politicians that don't have the baggage that some of them had in the

past. We could look at the next December elections having some

normalisation of how you give out justice. The DUP might be calmed by

the thought of putting somebody into that job who has a lot of power

military baggage. -- paramilitary. The ministers were just seem to come

from a qualified legal background. It is a highly qualified technical

area. It seems that the only qualification you need here is that

you are neither orange nor green and that you fit into a grey area. If

you're that she will be lost between her advisers and she will be nothing

more than a puppet, Claire Sugden. That is a worry. It is the DUP

wanting government on their terms only. We saw the language in the

last negotiations, they don't get generosity of spirit, partnership,

collaborative working. And that is my worry, because other parties put

forward redlines and list of demands, and there was not one. My

worry is that they would try to push were around. Who's the minister in

charge of Irish language now? That has become part of these big

department, the communities. Paul Givan comes from the evangelical

wing of the DUP. It'll be interesting to see how he handles of

the cultural matters. Pretty sensitive. He is also in charge of

policies for gender and sexual orientation. Yes, and he was the DUP

politician who dropped the conscience clause bill. That was

their attempt to address cases like the Ashes case. Let's see Sinn Fein,

Irish language, pretty important you, Europe on the hill, and who is

the minister in charge of Irish language? It is a DUP-per. And who's

the minister in charge of sexual orientation? It is the DUP. The man

with the glasses. I wonder if this could put an end to the orange and

green aspect to government in Stormont and we could have a proper

government like the one that David Cameron and Nick Clegg put together.

There is a point. If Sinn Fein and the DUP could sit together, I don't

know. I don't think they are. Westminster is quite unique. Most

governments go for this hemicycle. I don't think it should go in shades

of green and orange but there is a piece of legislation that is now in

law, the bill from John McAllister, putting the opposition structures

down, but the first job of the Assembly are supposed to be to move

the standing orders. There is nothing about the seating

arrangements, but we are in an evolution here.

Not for the first time, it was full stop. Back earlier today. They said

categorically, they will not sit in a bloc together, like Westminster.

They will be sitting on either side. Why not?! They might be sitting in a

bloc together right now. We don't know where they are, of course. Part

of the reason we have left is because we are frustrated with the

squabbles. They see fit to travel the world together, and then when it

comes to elections, you're coming after me now. I got carried away

Jill coming after you, in what way? What possible type of impact are you

going to health sitting on the sidelines? We're going to be able to

show that there is an alternative. We are going to be able to

scrutinise. It is a mishmash of anything and everything. We are in

week one and we are going to set out our ideas. With the Ulster Unionist

Party? With the Alliance, with the unionists... Do you agree on gay

marriage, on abortion...? Of course we have differences. We are Social

Democrats, and yes, the Ulster Unionists were very recently in an

alliance with the Conservatives. Of course we're going to differ on a

number of things. But that doesn't mean we can't work the acres of

common ground which are between us. We will have separate ideas, in the

same way as the DUP and Sinn Fein do. But we will show that the

government does not have to poke each other in the eye every couple

of days. You can find common ground. You were not able to do it when you

were in the executive, and you're now trying to convince people you

can find common ground in the opposition? Yes, we will work with

the Alliance and Greens and others. When you have an executive in place

which has rejected progress on so many issues, an opposition is needed

by this community to hold the executive to account. One of the

biggest rows in this country! Yes, but we did not tear each other's

hair out. We put forward a very constructive arguments and

amendments. By the way, the amendments we took have now been

included in the report. Just a passing comment! We've fully

supported the work to make sure that there were robust mitigations in

place for welfare reform. There are areas of common ground on that and

other issues. We have been talking about Sinn Fein and DUP division all

night. But I think the new setup has an opportunity for real

accountability for Northern Ireland, and finally, some real scrutiny.

Let's say you were in the opposition - what would you like to see change?

Talking about democracy. To restore real democracy, we need a removal of

the petition of concern. It's not going to happen, though, is it? It

has to. The opposition will bring the scrutiny needed. If the DUP are

put under pressure, they will have no choice. But the DUP and Sinn Fein

got the big mandate, and they've said, no, they are the kings of the

castle. They put themselves up in front of the public and the public

vote for them in massive numbers. We have to gain more votes by our

alternative vision. You should have done that before the election. We

are where we are now, we have got five years ahead of us. What about

the petition of concern, what impact does it have on you? Well, it takes

away the validity of my vote Cherry Hills of I voted for, if they are

trying to implement the policies and they have a majority in Stormont,

then the policies I voted for cannot go through. That's not democracy.

Claire Sugden spoke to you about this, didn't she? She did. Probably

the key demand wasn't reforming the petition, like the gentleman was

talking about. They say, if you really limit those two specific

issues related to community identity, then we will buy into

this. Claire Sugden did not set down a wish list. That was is that she

felt that would not work. She supports for instance same-sex

marriage. She wants to see some changes in relation to abortion. You

have been talking to her, so let's see what she was saying to you. I

think there's a reality there with the abortion issue in that people

are travelling to mainland UK to have terminations. I think we need

to have a discussion about that. I will be trying to have those

conversations with my executive colleagues to get some kind of

constructive change I think in Northern Ireland. So that's

abortion. What did she say about same-sex marriage? I would imagine

those types of issues would be kept out of the executive, so votes like

that will come down to individual MLAs' interest rather than a message

coming from the executive. Yes, I would be disappointed. On equal

marriage, I have voted consistently in favour of that. But behind closed

doors, I will be speaking with the executive and trying to get them to

change their mind on those things. It is about building relationships

and moving in a way which is amenable to everyone. A subtle

approach, she might take? Yes, she said she would be disappointed and I

said, what happens if this gets vetoed again? Won't you be accused

of being part and parcel of keeping the vetoes in place? Said, instead

of just slapping down a wish list, let's work slowly and surely, build

relationships, we can make progress. Some may say, that's naive, let's

see how the big parties treat her when she is in there, without a big

party behind her. But if we get a same-sex marriage vote, where a

majority to has voted in favour but it gets vetoed, then things will be

returning to tenderness. She has been getting flak because she did

slag off the executive not to long ago. She is relatively inexperienced

as well. Does it not need someone with a lot more air miles beneath

them to take it on? I think part of the problem in Northern Ireland is

that we have too many people with too many air miles, actually. Having

the youngest executive ever is a good thing. I have been on the other

end of Claire Sugden at the committees, and she is intelligent

and she stands her ground. I think she has played a blinder to get her

hands on the justice ministry. Stands her ground on criticising the

executive not long ago, and now she's part of it? And that is

healthy, in the sense that she will say what she thinks. The other

parties have been part of the executive for all of this time, with

all the difference is that they have had. I think she will have a good

team around her. She has got a big apartment. There's a lot of people,

she will have a lot of support. Don't underestimate her, I wouldn't.

She has played a blinder to this extent - she is in power and you two

are looking through the window. I also wish Claire Sugden well, but

from listening to her interview though, I am no clearer on what her

position on these issues will be. She is in favour of same-sex

marriage, and pro-abortion. As far as I remember, she did not vote in

favour of limited abortion reform at the last motion in the Assembly. I

wish well but I am no clearer on what her agenda will be. To be fair

to her, to clarify, she is pro-some change, some reform. I think she is

well within her rights to try and critique. We did exactly that when

we were not on the same page as the executive, we said it. Listening to

the debate so far, it is very, very pessimistic. I am just wondering, if

there is no joined up, overall plan between Sinn Fein and the DUP as to

how to go forward with Stormont mark II and the Assembly, is there a case

for direct full? Direct rule?! Savour all the money which is spent

on MLAs' expenses... I am just offering that as an alternative to

another four or five years of a failed Stormont. It does not have to

fail, it can be better. But it is failing. Give our guests around of

applause. Now, the history boys of the Northern Ireland football team

are preparing for their first ever European Championships. It is the

first major tournament we have been at since the 1986 World Cup in

Mexico. Before I get all of this flak for saying we, I have never

been to Windsor park, I have never watched a Northern Ireland game. I

am admitting it. One man who has played a huge part in guiding the

team to the Euros is manager Michael O'Neill. I have been to the training

camp to meet him. I've never been to a Northern

Ireland match in my life. How disgraceful is that? I can't believe

that! How have I even agreed to this interview?! I am trapped now,

because if I start going now, it will be, his glory hunting. You

might be drawing in, though, seriously, a new legion of fans,

season ticket holders at Premier League clubs and everything,

thinking to themselves, why am I not supporting guys on our own doorstep,

clowns like me, never even thought about going to Windsor park? I think

there's very few stadiums in the UK where you go in and there is a

fantastic atmosphere. Anfield, there is still a great atmosphere. Old

Trafford, there isn't, I have to admit. There was, before van Gaal!

Before David Moyes! When you go to Windsor park, there is a great

atmosphere, and that's something we should be proud of. The national

team is supported by both sides of the community. I love it that a boy

like me who, I guessed, a lot of what I do for living is talking

about what is wrong Northern Ireland, and there is a sense of

achievement here already. We looking forward to it. Then you have the

likes of Rory McIlory coming down here yesterday's. How important was

that to you? It was brilliant, he spoke so powerfully to the players.

What did he say to them? You must recognise what you have achieved,

how much it means to the people of Northern Ireland. He was there the

night we played Greece and he was doubly excited about it. He plans to

come to the Germany game as well. When you have someone of his stature

in sport, you can see the sense of excitement on the faces of the

players as well. It was a fantastic couple of hours. What is it about

this wee country of ours that in terms of sport and sports men, we

seem to be creating ambition and winners at the very top? Rory spoke

about it yesterday's. He said people in general from Northern Ireland are

fairly well grounded people. No prima donnas? There is no prima

donnas in this squad, trust me. I guessed it is just the background of

these lads. Have a look at yourself as a young man and tell me what's in

your head. Just press the. COMMENTATOR: Michael O'Neill! They

have really deserve that. What is in your head? That was a great night.

It was probably the best game that I played, one of the best, for

Northern Ireland. I scored a second one towards the end. This is it

here, I think. Michael O'Neill! Tremendous goal! Obviously, some of

these players are where you were then. What would you say to them,

with benefit of hindsight, now? This is something to be cherished, this

is an opportunity, maybe somebody we don't expect, can write their own

legacy, their own history as a Northern Ireland player. So that is

the message amateurish this opportunity and let's make the most

of it. What is better, player or manager? Player is always better

because you are only concerned about yourself. You can be selfish. As a

manager, you can't. But I think success as a manager is more

enjoyable than success as a player. Whatever happens in my career, I

think it will be very difficult for me to have these types of feelings

again, because it's such a personal job. I am getting the chance to take

my country to a major finals, which is something which will be difficult

to replicate. There is an interesting psychological aspect I

think to you. I read an an where you feel that you underperformed as a

player and I guess this is your second chance now?

It never leaves you as a player. I am not alone. Particularly in my

international career, because I got success early on in my career, has

an 18-year-old, my aspirations were to continue at that level throughout

my career and it was difficult to maintain that level at times. It is

not something that makes me unhappy in life. Does it drive you as a

manager? It does to an extent. The biggest thing for me as a manager is

to do the job the best you can and that is the way that you have to

manage now given away the is. Is it stressful? It is, very. Do you feel

that stress? Of course you do, yes. I comfort eat, you might have

noticed. I am not doing as much at this minute in time. When you're a

manager every decision comes back to the manager. Even little things,

what times you would leave, what times you would do this, it is

important that you get things laid down and you have good reparation.

My stress is always around preparation. I like the team to be

as well prepared as possible. You come across as a really nice guy.

And I think, are you capable of the hairdryer treatment? Do you shout

and scream at them? If you say no, I will find a player that says you do.

There have been times when things have had to be said. What is your

style? Challenging. Of course I shall at them. You have to be frank

and honest with them. Even if I don't see things in training that I

like, we fought long and hard to get Arsenal 's training ground and I did

not like what I was seeing in terms of the standard of training and I

said, a lot of work came in to get this, we might as well trained on a

bad pitch with holes in the net that is the response. You have to

challenge them. The 2015 coach of the year is, we are not Brazil, we

are Northern Ireland, Michael O'Neill! How much did it mean to you

winning coach of the year? It was fantastic. The atmosphere in the

Odyssey that year, how Belfast put on that event, I could not ask for

anything more. People think, because I got up and spoke for 25 minutes...

They thought I was prepared. I would like to thank my players, AP McCoy

and is would like to thank his horses. You're no coach all without

your players. I think they were proud of me when I came out of

football, my parents, that I had prepared for that, as well, and when

I decided to go back into management, I made that decision. I

made it with a lot of thought. Talking about family. Interesting

tactics. The wives are allowed in. There's a of access permitted. -- a

level of. It is not like you ban them, like they are going to be

stopped at passport control going into France. What I feel for our

players is they are used to having families around them. They are going

to be away for 33 days. Some managers ban wives completely. There

is an element of that. The Italians are strict about it. Fabio Capello

was strict when he was manager of England what it did not work. You

cannot put a different culture onto our culture that is culturally

different. So will the WAGs be standing outside? We will have

access for the lads to see their families. Which Premier League club

is after you, then? None of them. I need a more exotic name. I will have

to change my name. It is a difficult market to break into. Do you wanted?

I enjoy this job. This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for

me. I don't want to look back in 10-15 years, whenever it is, and

say, I did not do that as well as I should have done it, I was thinking

about something else. My focuses purely on managing my country at

this particular time. McCrory did not get there, McGuinness went down.

Ecstasy! What is your dream, Michael? To go as far as we can now,

you know? You could not have written the script for this. I imagine

getting this team to the lock-out stage, and once you get to that then

you do start to dream. My focus has been on, let's try and do a 1982.

Still Billy Halton. Arconada, Armstrong! I remember seeing those

players. And let's dream if we can create that type of legacy. Can we

win this? It is funny. I am personally not looking that far

ahead. You must have had something at the back of your head, how far

can we go? This team will have to play better and grow through the

tournament. But I believe it is capable of doing that. Northern

Ireland is good at fighting with itself and finding problems and

sometimes I help to do that, but I hope that I can hope to unite behind

you all because we wish you the very best. I hope you have an incredible

experience. Thank you very much. Fantastic. Thank you. Obviously,

given that you have never been to Windsor Park, we have brought you

this. The kit man, I am not sure who did the sizing, we hope to see you

at Windsor Park, and you must wear this. That is a challenge we have

set you. I tell you what we'll do. We will try it on, and just see the

lack of fit. I will not take my shirt off. I won't do this to you.

Let's see what I will actually look like at Windsor Park. Did you buy

the smallest one you could?! I tell you what I am like, like something

out of Little Britain. You would look all right in the Kop, dressed

like that! APPLAUSE

He seemed like a really good guy. I will get my own back with that

tight-fitting top. The home game friendly against Belarus is live on

BBC Northern Ireland. Good luck to the boys over in France. Just make

you aware, there could be some strong language coming up. Talking

about what it is like living with Tourette's. My next guest has the

condition, he is Lewis from East Belfast. He has been making online

videos to raise awareness of his condition and removing the stigma

that can be attached to it. Do you like your job? No, I have

never liked that! Getting told to F off everyday! F off, banker!

It does actually mean a lot to me. What advice would give you if you

had Tourette's? My advice to you would be don't let it get you down.

Be yourself 100%. Don't let it change you, don't let it make you

feel worse off than anybody else. Being different is not a bad thing.

Being different is a great thing. Here is Lewis, ladies and gentlemen!

Not bad. For goodness sake. You should get a real job! UC... Here is

the score. You're a lovely fellow. And actually, actually, right, you

are lovely fellow, and beyond these tics I want to find out what it is

like living with this. Family! What is it like living with that

everyday. It changes the way you think about stuff. For the start for

me it was terrifying. Some amazing people around me, though. What

happened is you went into hospital with a sore shoulder? I was at

school and I started to get a little twitch, just like that. And it

turned into Mike, a little spasm sort of thing. Mike and he took me

right up to the hospital. Went to the hospital and got the best drugs

I have ever had in my life, I swear to God. I was seeing things, and

that was great. I woke up the next day and still had that twitch, and

it went from arm to arm, and from late to leg. When did the verbal

tics start? The next day. It is absolutely terrifying. I am glad

that I have got the people around me that I have. Did you ever have any

stages were you thought to yourself, I can't handle this? It is never

going to completely sink in that my life has changed. I still think I

can do things that I probably should not be doing. What is it like for

example walking through an airport? Isis! Is that what happens when you

walk through an airport? That could be... I am smuggling drugs! Do you

want some? No, I don't. See you after the show. What happens, then?

When you're walking through an airport. What reaction do you get?

Do people understand? At the start I was terrified to leave their house.

For the first four months, I made every excuse possible not to leave.

Then I just came to the point where I thought, I cannot do it like this

any more, no point sitting around their house gazing about. My life

changed as soon as I left possible. I thought, a couple of people from

East Belfast... Let me tell you what this young man has for the videos he

has put on you Tube. He has over 100 million views. Isn't that

incredible? Isn't that incredible? APPLAUSE

What that must be doing in its own right for an understanding of your

disability. I get people talking to me every day saying that it is

helping them find out what Tourette's is, and to know more

about the disorder. People with Tourette's, I have only had it for

one year, but this is me, yes? I have had this one here for three

months. People have had it their whole lives. Do you have a job or

are you at school still? I am doing work experience. It is absolutely

amazing shop. That is credit to the shop, to bring you in. I have a job

before. I used to teach kids kick boxing. Then when the tics

starter... Is that what you're into? I used to compete at kick Oxon. And

you had to stop? I cannot fight any more because I would never pass a

medical. David took me on, and he has given

me a really big opportunity. You can't drive? No! That would be fun,

can you imagine that?! Can you imagine the road rage?! . What is

your advice to people at home that might have a disability like this?

Do not let it change you. Whenever it changes you, you... Stand up to

it, be yourself. Always keep the people around you that were there

before. Keep the people around you from day one. And I guarantee, I

promise you now, put my life on the line, it won't faze you at all. What

I want to say to all at home is that obviously, part and parcel of this

disability... Obviously, part and parcel of this disability is that

Lewis cannot control what he can say. So I would apologise if some of

the bad language has offended anyone at home. But I will say this joker I

would defend every second of this charismatic young man being in this

studio. And there's another thought in my head. There are some

politicians that don't walk in here because... Gerry Adams! And he's not

one of them! Because they do not want a question asked of them that

they don't like. And this man has had the bravery to coming here

tonight. And for that I'm really grateful, sir, thank you. Well done,

brilliant. Right, the 4-part drama import the secret on ITV ended last

week. It was a huge ratings winner but it also came in for criticism.

Starring James Nesbitt, it was based on the story of convicted killers

who murdered their spouses and kept the death secret for 18 years and

let's see a clip from it. I've murdered my wife. What Hazel

and I were doing has caused so much pain to Lesley and Trevor, I thought

a divorce would cause the children too much suffering. In my mind, it

was much worse for Lesley and Trevor to live than to die. So I made a

plan to kill them, and to make it look like suicide. Joining me now,

two commentators, including one of them who starred as an extra in it

and now regrets it? I think I do. I am a hard man, I can do a lot of

things but I do believe there was gratuitous sex, gratuitous violence

in that, and we have imposed a legacy on three separate lots of

children. When they grow up, that will still be with them. I think

that was wrong, I think it was a mistake, and it did not need to be

done. It could have been done with more subtlety, could have been made

even more exciting perhaps than that explicit stuff. It was unnecessary.

Many on ITV would say, as with other broadcasters, there are so many

dramas which are based on real life. Yes, but that is raw, constant, and

over the hill. It was a number of years ago, but everybody knew about

it. It is in Northern Ireland culture, it is still there, we know

about it. One of the arguments is that it is too soon? 25 years is not

too soon. The court case was only a couple of years ago. And the court

case still drags on because Hazel is still wanting to get a retrial. You

were an extra so you knew what the story was going to be. You have a

problem with the sex scenes and scenes of a graphic, violent nature,

because that is the real story? Are you going to edit it? That was the

story and I thought it was done really superbly. Your husband was an

extra in it as well. And so was I, but I hit the cutting room floor.

The bottom line is, it was a great portrayal of an engrossing story.

What about the offence caused to some of the victims' families. That

was caused whenever these atrocities were carried out, not that ITV chose

to make it into a dramatisation of a book by Derek Henderson, who spent

six years meticulously researching the story and lived through the

trials. This was all in the public domain. Callum what one of the

victims' families have said. When it comes up on the screen...

I mean, it is very sad. No, it is worse than sad. How many real-life

crimes have been portrayed on the small screen and the big screen

throughout the world, over time? You could talk about many of them. These

things happen. It is unfortunate, there is an appetite for this type

of drama. And I'm sure that... If you ask some of the victims, I bet

they have watched similar programmes and traumatise Asians of heinous

crimes. I was an extra in it. All I did was three days work and I got

three seconds. I had no idea what the total picture was. It was just

one little world in a galaxy of shots, that is all it was. I had no

idea what the plot was or anything. I just did my job. You did know. I

knew what the baseline was, but when I saw it in the four episodes, I was

appalled and shocked and heartbroken for the things that we did to the

children. I want to go to the audience. The lady here, you were a

patient of Colin Howell, is that right? Yes, for about four or five

years. What did you make of him? I thought he was quite nice man. He

was quite withdrawn. He was not an approachable man as such. He would

not have cracked a joke or anything, you look quite withdrawn into

himself. You thought he was a nice guy at the time. Obviously, you do

not think that now but there was something you could not put your

finger on, so what was that about him? I don't know, just his persona.

Some saw him as being arrogant, but I found him more sad. Withdrawn?

Yes, very withdrawn. And then when you heard the news that the man that

you had sat in his dentist's chair, what impact did that have new?

Shock, I suppose the whole community was shocked. He was a well liked man

within the town of Ballymoney. The guy in the glasses, go ahead. I am a

big fan of James Nesbitt, I enjoyed watching The Secret on television. I

don't think the drama was insensitive, because it actually

portrayed the events. It has been raised in the Commons. It was

actually the guy in the glasses just behind you, go ahead. I enjoyed the

show, it was very well done. I understand everything that was

portrayed. But don't understand why now, Colin Howell has put himself on

hunger strike. That is a completely different issue. The guy here... I

have not seen the show, but I know that TV shows are made for

entertainment. I don't think that people who want to watch the show

can watch it for entertainment but I do not see why the family... That is

a very hard message for the victim of a family here, that people will

be watching it for entertainment? There are a lot of true stories

based on facts. But it is a show at the end of the day, just like this

show. What I'm saying is that... It was a Labour MP who raised this in

the House of Commons. It is actually a Labour MP who recently got a

response from the Prime Minister, David Cameron. They are now having

to relay this pain because ITV are dramatising their whole ordeal,

completely against her wishes, using not only the real names of her

family but also her own. I will discuss this case with the Culture

Secretary and bring it to his attention and see if there's

anything else, other than the conversation she has had with ITV

and Ofcom, that can be done. Should the Prime Minister be getting

involved in this? It was already screened and available to watch, and

it will probably get nominated and awarded, probably a BAFTA. James

Nesbitt, it was a huge performance, no doubt. Even as he walked past the

jury, you could sense that he was in the character. It took it out of him

as well. I think it did, but but does not justify what we did, that

display to the children. I think the platform and profile it is giving to

something which has caused a lot of outrage and hurt a lot of families,

I think it makes it questionable viewing for people at home. It could

encourage people... So you believe in censorship, any real-life story

which involves murder all crime, can't be shown? It could encourage

people of suspect minds to engage in that because they think there is

some attraction to that because of its high profile coverage on

television. You could say that about soap operas. But this one is true.

But he is saying, if you watch something on the small screen, you

might copy it. That's not true. If you're watching a soap, you know it

is something which is made up. This guy was obviously mentally unstable

for he committed the crimes. Surely when you went to be an extra, you

did not think you were going to be in a Disney film, you must have read

the script or at least part of it and knowing the background. Saying

that now is Abate after the horse has bolted. No, it is not. The

script is only on a need-to-know basis. Somebody being an extra would

not have a clue about the whole story. But you knew the story? I

knew the general story but I did not know about the struggle when they

gassed each other. We have got a statement here.

OK, that is all we have got time for in this debate, I'm afraid. We will

continue talking about it on Twitter. Before we go, we have a

musical treat. They have hotfooted it off stage from the grand Opera

house. Ladies and gentlemen, here they are, it's Footloose!

Darling, your boyfriend has two left feet, and you had no idea? Nun!

Didn't he sweep you off your feet? Not yet! It is not like that with me

and will art. No, really. Willard has a lot of hidden talents. I mean,

just look at him! # My baby, he don't talk

sweet # He ain't got much

to say # But he loves me,

loves me, loves me # I know

that he loves me anyway # But I don't really mind

he don't dress fine # Cos every time

he pulls me near I just wanna cheer # Oh,

let's give the boy a hand # Let's hear

it for my baby # Oh, maybe he's no Romeo

you gotta understand # But he's my

lovin' one-man show # Oh, whoa,

let's hear it for the boy # He's watchin' every dime

may not be rich # But he loves me, loves me,

loves me # We always have a real good

time # But that's all right by me,

yeah # Let's hear it for my baby

he does so well, makes me wanna yell # But he's my lovin' one-man

show # Oh, whoa, let's hear it

for the boy # Cos every time

he pulls me near I just wanna cheer # You know you gotta

understand # Oh, maybe he's no Romeo But he's

my lovin' one-man show # Oh, whoa

let's hear it for the boy # Let's

hear it for the boy