Episode 2 Nolan Live

The Brexit clock is ticking, so what will the impact be

on Northern Ireland, the border, our economy,

We're also talking about cyclists, they often get a hard time

Find out why the Fire Service is visiting this studio tonight.

And it's all in front of a live studio audience.

The Prime Minister Theresa May has said the process is definitely

going to start by the latest in March next year.

The Stormont executive is split over this as well.

Let's have a look at the mixed messages that have come

We will invoke article 50 no later than the end of March next year. The

issue around how we will make the border work in a way that will work

from both sides in terms of trade, services. She's very engaged in that

issue, I'm glad to say. This is all about the internal mass of the

Conservative Party. I said it won't be plain sailing, there will be

bumps in the road. We should always remember that the fundamentals of

the UK economy are strong. We will work to ensure that Northern

Ireland's unique interests are protected and advanced. No one wants

to see the return to the borders of the past. What I want to do tonight

is give the political parties that are coming, the executive, the

opposition, those around the table tonight, a chance to tell them what

they're thinking is. What their plans actually are, for what may or

may not happen. We start with the border, for example.

The message we are hearing from the First Minister Arlene Foster

is she doesn't wish to see a return to the borders

Govan Robinson. Spell out your plan of how we control the border when

we're out of Europe. The first and most important thing is all of the

remain as have changed their tune. Gnabry an island, Republic of

Ireland or Her Majesty's government want to see a hard border. Talk

about your party's policy. I want to probe the issues. What are you going

to do? What is your party's policy on controlling the border? We are

engaging with the government. We have told them, we have outlined our

desire that we do not want to see a return to hard borders. That is what

you don't want to see. What are you going to do? We recognise that we

have a common travel area. With the Irish Republic. We recognise that

that existed long before the European Union. We recognise that

the Irish Republic lies outside the sharing arrangements. The Irish

Republic while it would remain part of European union, it is not part of

the border aspirations. Will need any checks on Europe when we leave

Europe? There are two issues. One about the movement of people, and

the other about the movement of goods. We already collaborate with

the Republic of Ireland on border controls. In fact, the United

Kingdom government invests heavily both financially and with personal

on how the Republic of Ireland control their borders. Where outside

the Common travel area, not part of Schengen and cooperate meekly. That

is what is important about the statement. What is going to look

like? Very much like it will today. If it is going to look like it does

today, the difference is one side of the border's going to be in Europe,

and the other isn't. And both the Republic of Ireland and the United

Kingdom will be outside of the Schengen area. We will not be part

of those borderless regions of European Union, and we will have

mutually protected borders. That's what we have at the moment, that is

what we will have after Brexit. When Arlene Foster was talking about new

border technology just this week, what was she talking about? That

about the movement of goods, about freight. What is her idea around

that, how should we control it? It is cameras, new technology. We took

extensive evidence from those who are engaged, controlled. What is the

cameras check? The vehicle is moving across. They check with those

companies, what is in the vehicles. And the electronics... Her new

camera system is going to be able to detect how many people are in these

buses? I just answered you and said this is about goods. I thought you

started off... You couldn't have 20 people in a goods vehicle? Well, you

started this off by saying he wanted a serious discussion. It is a

serious discussion. If you recognise that through mutual cooperation, our

borders, a Kingdom's and the Republic of Ireland's borders

outside of Schengen with mutual borders protect the country and

countries when people enter. Once you have entered, you have entered

on a mutually agreed system between the United Kingdom and Republic of

Ireland. There already are operating a system outside of with us. They've

been doing it since 1923. Padded day usually say they don't know how this

will work, but we don't. We will make it work. You can say you don't

want a return to the borders, but nobody can demonstrate how it will

work. Schengen is about the borders on the periphery of the European

Union are secured. The point is, how can you give expression and validity

and then not have a hard border? Everybody, I actually believe that

the London government and Dublin governments don't want the hard

border, but they still can't explain. As of Sunday we see that we

had going for a hard Brexit, you can see that the Irish Foreign Minister

is now very worried. At least Donaldson is now talking about a

special status. But you can't explain how to work. The whole point

of having the border presumably is to stop people traffickers etc. And

you haven't explained how to do that. The difficulty is that the

Prime Minister at the week and said they would take back control of

emigration. That means there won't be the same freedom of movement in

terms of UK as there is with European Union. That has to be

controls and means I would rather that wasn't the case. Once the Prime

Minister makes it clear will have a different freedom of movement resume

from the rest of European Union, that has to be policed. Gavin is in

denial of that point. There will be a different immigration policy in

the Republic of Ireland and a different immigration policy...

Dealing current people to leave Europe whose green I'm delighted

that we are leaving the European Union. One is a passport border, and

the other is a Customs border, affecting how goods move. We have

never had a passport border. And we don't need to have a passport

border, because since 1923, long before the EU, the whole British

Isles was covered by the Common travel area. Which means whatever

point you arrive at in the British Isles as your point of entry, you

present your passport and you don't present it again. Now, how does that

fit in with stopping free movement of Labour? Very simply. It's nothing

to do with passports, it's to do with work permits. -- free movement

of labour. We're not stopping tourists coming in. We are stopping

people when we control our own immigration in respect of work by a

work permit system. That is not the message sent out in the referendum.

It was control our borders, stop people getting into the country!

That is what the message was. That is done by work permits. What you're

saying is they can get into the country. They can't work. And they

can't draw benefits. And account rent a house. And they can't do any

of the things that would cause us... How are illegal immigrants doing it

all now? We have a total absence of control. No mechanisms of control. I

think it's very important we deal with... You are relying on, you're

happy with illegal immigrants coming into the country. The borders are so

poor as we have no controls, but once they are in you are relying on

us being able to stay stop them working, landlords to Tenormin.

Becomes illegal to work without a work permit -- to turn them in. And

you're denied benefits because you shouldn't be here, and you are

denied a house, there will be no incentive to come. And therefore, we

will only have coming in, those who are going to contribute. Because you

have no controls now! Those who have something economic to contribute...

Or where doing is turning legal in immigration into illegal

immigration. -- all we are doing. Hold on now. Not shouting tonight,

please. The point here is that the Leave campaign said they wanted

control back of borders. I was not bothered by immigration, but I think

they contribute a lot to society. What they are now saying is that

simply immigration is going to continue, except that what was

previously Eagle will now become illegal. It will be control. You

will only be accepted if you're filling a vacancy that there isn't a

local person to fill and therefore there is purpose and point in having

you there. In Dublin, travel north into UK. I want you to have a look

at what was happening this week. Not for the first time, but have a look

at what was happening this week on the border. Look at that. What's the

context? It is checkpoints, checking people's identity going across the

border. What's the context? Who's doing it? There's a prison van that,

what is the context of the control? What is the purpose of the police

being the? Of their some illegal workers. They were checking

everyone's identity. Are you sure, have you got any kind of word from

the Garda that there won't be those checks? Nobody in politics Ivanov of

the border or south of the border wants to see a return to hard border

is -- in politics north of the border. They were asking for

identification this week. They're asking for identification. We get

checkpoints for a myriad of criminal justice reasons. What you are saying

of what you will ensure happens, will it not actually be for the

European Union to decide how the southern government need to control

the border? Would they not have do comply with EU policy? There already

sit outside it, they are not part of Schengen. Freedom of movement is one

of the core points of the European Union. The European Union set up

their principles. They are not bound by the rules. Go

ahead. Hi. How are you is going to maintain the cost to go from the

north to the South? How are people going to be safe going into the

opposite to do their shopping? I think the currency exchange will

attract them. I see no impediment to it and nor do I want to see any

impediment to it. I think the cross-border relationship is hugely

important. Do you think it will change? Back in the day, people used

get their shopping check that the checkpoints. That is about security.

Not regular borders. There will have to be checks on the movement of

goods. If the EU imposes tariffs. Of course there will be carrots. --

Carys. First of all, the UK will be outside of the single market. I

think it is a disaster. You think it will be good. There will have to be

a difference in terms of trading policy that will have to be policed.

Let's bear in mind that people work on both sides of the border and

businesses are organised on a cross-border basis. Our food sector

is closely linked to the Republic. There would only be a Customs border

if either party, either the EU or the UK imposed Carys. Now, why would

that happen? In circumstances where the EU sells a ?70 billion worth

more every year than we sell them. Are they going to cut off their nose

to spite their face to direct tariffs against our goods, knowing

that they depend more on selling to us than we sell to them? How long

will it take us to do the deal? We have two years to do the deal. It is

very much in the interest of the EU to do the deal because of the simple

economic reality. They sell more to us than we sell to them. It is as

simple and elementary as that in those who try to say that means

Customs, double meaning customers if the EU decides a moment of madness

that they are going to make it harder for us to sell to our primary

market that we sell so much to. There are 30,000 people who cross

the border every day for work and we have not explained how they will be

able to get to work on time. The fact is, I strongly suspected border

will be around this Ireland. So all that is what we are getting here.

The whole point is that if there is goods, the fact is we are outside of

the EU and there will be price differentials. There will be tariffs

and there will be people either legally or illegally... Of course

there will be tariffs. I will explain if you will let me. The

whole point is we are in the single market, we are in the club and we

accept the rights and responsibilities. If we say we do

not want any of the bad stuff, we want to pick and choose, Europe has

made very clear. Why would they give everyone in the union a preferential

rate? But despite us giving them two fingers... Eyelid is like to say to

Jim and Gavin that I was appointed in your party Bosman decision not to

take part in the all Ireland Forum. Unfortunately, Northern Ireland will

not be top of the UK Government's and is during the negotiations so

don't you think it would be a good idea to have another ally in the

Irish Government pushing on the EU side for our special circumstances?

The second point is a fair one. If you have the Republic of Ireland,

who have a shared interest in the border and they are going to be

making decisions that affect us then of course that makes sense. But do

we here in Northern Ireland executive... In the north - South

ministerial Council. We see nothing further to gain. We are fully

engaged in these discussions. We are fully engaged with the Republic of

Ireland Government and with the UK Government. OK. I want to keep

moving the sun. Emigration is obviously a big issue for many in

the referendum. It is a big, big issue. What is net immigration into

Northern Ireland? Is it high? Is it now? What I know is from some of the

issues we have had in east Belfast around racist attacks is that the

fear about immigration isn't as high as the reality. It is 2000. So do

you think it should be lower than that are higher than that? Fair

enough, you do not know. It is 2000. Does that sound reasonable? The

quantum isn't on the issue. The need is the issue. So if we get... One of

the big messages was immigration in the referendum. The point is, do we

need 2000 more in our economy to work? If we needed 500 and got 2000,

are we creating a burden for society? What is the assessment of

the DUP of how much we do need? We have not got a figure. It is about

need. It is that the demands for public service. Do we need more or

less? Do we sufficiently provide those who work and build our economy

from our own indigenous population? You're looking very confident about

this but what is the plan of the SDLP. You need to be a Government in

waiting if you are in opposition in terms of encouraging local people to

take up those jobs which immigrants are doing. What is the plan? We

currently have the worst economic activity figures in the whole of the

UK. Absolutely. The fact is that we have just about net immigration

because young people are leaving because they do not feel that the

jobs and opportunities that they want all year and we need to address

that. Attitudes like other people are not well, not going to help.

Yes, we agree. We do not think the training is in place. We have asked

for more investment and we do not think we have the right conditions

for high-quality 21st century jobs to come here. And we're been

campaigning on exactly that but if we just, to pick back up on

immigration, everything that we feared has come to pass here. Amber

Rod -- Amber Rudd has said that company should be named and shamed

if they use foreign workers. Liam Fox has said that they do not know

what to do about foreign workers. You are mentioning Amber Rudd and

Liam Fox to these people. Sinn Fein and DUP are doing quite well and

these -- you are having to go to Amber Rudd. One day end and this

executive have written a letter and they did not get a reply. They wrote

it six weeks ago. If you asked me to fix your streetlight and I came back

six weeks ago and said that I wrote a letter and they did not reply, I

would be letting you down. There is no plan. We have met the British

Government continually. I can assure you that in the discussions that we

have had since, whether it was the Prime Minister yesterday in

Birmingham, whether it was the Secretary of State for leaving the

EU, whether it was Liam Fox, we are fully engaged. But your partners in

Government, Martin McGuinness, say that we are on a collision course

for collateral damage. Martin McGuinness has also said that he has

to recognise the decision to leave the EU and he will implement its.

There is a problem here. The executive is pulling into different

directions. One that foolishly wants to remain in does not accept the

outcome. One that says we are going and let school. And that's why I am

so delighted that this negotiation doesn't rest with the executive. As

the Prime Minister made very clear, we joined the EU as one nation and

we leave as one nation and the British Government, the sovereign

Government will do the negotiation. Into the audience. Yes, go ahead.

When we were in the EU, we did not have control over our laws. Now we

have the chance to have control of our laws and build the economy. On

immigration, I think it is a good idea. Certain cultures don't mix

well? Is long, yes. -- is long, yes. I think when you look at those

middle eastern countries. -- Islam. They make them worthy burqa and

stuff. Have you seen much of that in Northern Ireland? We are doing a

good job of treating people in Northern Ireland extremely well. Why

should be any shame in a Government saying our priority is to provide

jobs for our own people? Why should there be any shame in saying that?

And those who live in the UK... And when we cannot... No one is

suggesting that we grow immigrants out. We are drawing the line... Liam

Fox says they are upon this to be traded. The moment we leave, those

who have citizenship have citizenship, but thereafter, we as

the UK decide if we need a certain quality of work and can't provide

it, we bring it in. What is wrong with that. We know the net

immigration figures. How many do you think we need? Whatever they can see

that we cannot fill. Pseudo- toy figure? So you do not know a figure?

Why cant you assess this? We know the figure across the UK is 300,000.

You're not here to represent the UK. I am absolutely proud to be part of

the UK. So should you be. Because it looks after you very well. The key

thing about this is contoured. Why should a nation not control its own

immigration? I want to move on because we are talking about the --

the economy and I think we can agree that one of the big building blocks

that we have said is going to put a rocket under this economy is the

potential for us to have corporation tax at such an attractive rate that

other companies will want to set up shop here. And what the agreement

has been is that we will do is corporation tax to 12.5%. So lets

hypothesise here. We have a big European business and they say that

they like that. And they go to speak to some of Hamilton, -- Simon

Hamilton, our economy minister. Here is the important question. A big

European business says to him, what is the trading relationship going to

be with the EU? What is he currently able to say? Well, if they come now,

the trading relationship is as it is. They are interested in the

future. He voted for us to leave, so if corporation tax... Even if the

forecast is different, they will make a colossal killing just on the

currency situation. And we will be free of the EU bureaucracy. He has

to say, I don't know what the trading bullish on chip will be. --

what the trading situation will be. If we do not have a free trade with

the EU, then we fall back to the world trade organisations figures.

Where there is a 40% tariff? There is not 40%. You do not automatically

go to 40% tariffs. I am talking about for farming in Derry. Do you

know our manufacturing exports? Where is our biggest market? You

tell me. Great Britain. The Irish public is 1.4. What we do have the

best of the world, where all of these trade issues apparent, paid

more to the rest of the world outside of the U, this little

province of Northern Ireland traits more than double and what we do with

Irish but the? What is the EU's extra tariff? Let's look at how

important farming is to us here. Have a look at some of these

statistics here on farming. In 2015, we have these figures.

It is British taxpayer's money Centre Brussels, siphoned off and

sent back, that tribute. -- sent to Brussels, siphoned off and sent

back, we are a net contributor. What about the promise that it would be

sent to the NHS? What about farmers Omnibus posters? I didn't write the

posters, but I'm telling you duality. Let's talk about the iron

mask, who told us we would be bussed. -- let us talk about the

IMF. To return to the matter. EU farming in incomes, guaranteed until

2020. Within the EU, it is not guaranteed one day after that.

Because it's into a new financial cycle. The UK Government has

guaranteed to match it right up to that point. Thereafter, we will be

able to share in the ?10 billion windfall that comes from leaving the

EU and to look after our own farmers and their needs. Far better to do it

ourselves to suck than to siphon it off. I'm learning about this as we

speak. There are fun payments made by the EU to farmers. -- there are

single payments. Can you guarantee that farmers will get at least that

same level of money? I can guarantee because the British government has

committed to it, that until 2020 it is guaranteed. What happens after

2020? After 2020 and inside the EU there is no guarantee, because we

are working... After that, there will be ?10 billion to be shared. It

won't be shared, it's all going to the NHS. It will be going to need

including those of farmers. The agriculture minister in the UK has

made that clear. Here is another issue. If we look at how important

agriculture is to the UK, someone sitting in England to the government

over there, where obviously their votes are a lot more them than here.

It represents 1% of their economy, so agriculture is not as important

to them as it is here. Would you like it to be a devolved matter?

Agriculture? In terms of funding for farmers. Would you like that to be

devolved. The British government could say we're putting it into the

block grant, you can decide how you will distribute it. Would you like

that? That is predicated on the British government not doing what is

in the best interests of our farmers. What you're asking me to

expect is that we will fail. Would you like a parser that you can

guarantee it, rather than relying on Amber Rudd and Theresa May. Would

you like Arlene Foster and your party to have that devolved power?

First of all, I said you are predicating it on failure. Secondly,

we have devolved powers for agriculture in this country. The

Barnett Formula suits Northern Ireland incredibly well. It wouldn't

in agriculture. Let him finish. So there's going to be a new spent on

agriculture whenever this money comes back from the European Union.

That gives us 3%, not 1%. 3% of any new spend to Northern Ireland as a

consequence is the Barnett Formula. We have agriculture devolved. We

have the ability and the power, just like I have to say the announcement

that she was bringing forward payments, advance payments, 95% by

the end of the year... You would or wouldn't like the power? I'm just

giving an example of devolution. 3% of the money under the Barnett

Formula. We cannot match what we currently get under the European

Union formula. That is the challenge. I'm asking you this

question because you're in the executive, you have the controlling

power with Sinn Fein. Can you give no matter what way it happens, can

you give an undertaking to farmers tonight who may be considering

investing in plants, machinery, whatever they are worried about

their future. Can you give them an undertaking that they will not be

getting any less of a subsidy that is equivalent to the single foreign

payment than they are currently getting? That is the commitment the

British government have given this far. Are not asking the British

government, I'm asking the DUP. Can you give a commitment? I thought you

said you wanted a serious conversation. That is the promise

the British governed have given. Can you give them a commitment, Sir? Can

you give the farmers tonight a commitment at that their income that

in terms of income once we leave Europe. There has never been a

circumstance where farmers have not been protected. They were before the

European Union was created, and will be after we leave. No one in my

party or the Stormont executive will damage what is a key part of our

economy. OK. Very quickly. What makes Northern Ireland in the best

interest of the Northern Ireland to keep -- of the British government to

keep since we are so expensive? Could expel the end of the UK? The

UK is four nations, the Prime Minister has been stressing it

again. It is the unity of those nations that is the United Kingdom.

Pretty offensive by someone who is supposed to be the guarantor and

mediating here, to call people divisive nationalists, given that it

was divisive English nationalism that got us here. Do you ever? We

believe that Northern Ireland, Scotland... Give them a round of

applause, thank you. We'll be containing the debate after

the show on Twitter and Facebook. And not forgetting my Radio Ulster

show tomorrow morning, It's 9am, it is the Nolan show on

BBC radio Ulster. Let's see who is on line one. I couldn't believe how

dirty they were. You'll have to tell me what you mean by that. That is

absolutely disgraceful, inflammatory language. I thought you were up to

speed! You don't even know what's going on around you. We have to

pinch yourself this morning when you think that Northern Ireland's now

national news because of a kick. If you remember anything from this

programme tonight, it is this segment I want you to remember. Look

at this. You think this couldn't be in your home? It could. It is a

dishwasher that is completely gone on fire. Hello, good to see you.

700 fires in the last three years in Northern Ireland have been caused

by electrical equipment like tumble dryers, chargers and a dishwasher

The message here that you're coming here tonight to tell us is that

these things should not be left on overnight. Why not? That is the

message we are trying to get across tonight. What I really like to is

this hasn't been set up. This is a real dishwasher, a real fire that

occurred in June this year. The family escaped from their home

safely because they had a smoke alarm in place. The smoke alarm was

tested and working, and working, and they had a fire escape plan in

place. I understand if you have a 20-year-old appliance and you're not

leaving it all night. You're saying don't leave brand-new, electrical

goods on overnight. Washing machines, tumble dryers. In June

going to the shop on the run on. This is what people do. That is what

we trying to say, don't do the risk. Imagine what would've happened to

that family of the fire alarm hadn't worked. Last year, 12 people have

lost their lives. We could easily be looking at 14 people. For me, you

don't leave these things on, run to the shop, that's scary because I do.

Here is another example. Extension needs. I have these in my house. You

don't think that the court should be tangled? Again, it is fire safety

awareness week. You can see a fire started in the middle of this

extension cable. It is used for a long period without this being

disconnected. We have lots of simple fire safety advice on our website.

That is all right, but you do know the vast majority of us have these

tangled? We're trying to get the message across. This starts real

fires. You're telling me you do the same thing? I do, this is behind my

curtains all tangled up. Versus a fire risk? The more I talk to you

tonight, the more I think we need to get our Chris at your house to check

it out! Will have a look up here. This is very interesting. A chip pan

fire in your home. People have lost their lives again, sadly, through

this. Over the last you're years, 2500 fires in Northern Ireland. The

biggest cause is cooking and cooking fires. We will leave a chip pan

unattended and left overnight. What we're trying to convey to you at

home is if this happens, get out of the house, don't try to put it out

yourself. Because if you throw water on it, what will happen? You will

see what will happen in a minute. For the last three years, 182 chip

pan fires in Northern Ireland. Two people have lost their lives in the

last few years. People think it doesn't happen any more, but it

does. Chip pan fires are still happening today. What we'll do here

is take the lid off this. Correct? Let us get the lid off it. This

would be... Sometimes they are temperamental. Sometimes takes a bit

of time, but it normally catches fire. Letters to see if it catches

fire. -- let us see. What we want this to do is start catching fire,

and then we will show you. That is what happens when you leave it

unattended. If you try to put the fire at yourself, just watch. You

will probably be wrongly throwing a bucket of water on it. This is a

little glass of water. Watch what happens. Picture that in a small

kitchen. Picture what that would look like the person who has just

done it. You'd be dead. The fire would rapidly spread to house. Our

campaign is smoke alarms, know the causes of fires, have a fire escape

plan in place. Thank you for coming in tonight. Let us have a look at

this one more time, in case you haven't got this in your head. Look,

there it goes. That could be your home. Look at that. He was the

bottom line: don't let that be your home. Don't let it happen. Thank you

for joining us on BBC One tonight. We appreciate you getting involved

in all the debates on Twitter and Facebook. The next item is about

Facebook. It isn't about Facebook, it's about cyclists. We'll debated

in the studio after we find out how Vinnie has been getting some of the

thoughts of people on the streets. We're asking people about cyclists.

A disgrace. How do you find the attitude from motorists soared

cyclists? Aggressive, not good. With a shout out, get yourself off the

road. They cause problems. When you're in the bus lanes. One

cyclist, it defeats the purpose of a bus lane. Wherever I go to red

light, I go into the pedestrian zone and cross at the green light.

Whether pedestrians are meant to be? DC many cyclists in north Belfast

they shouldn't be on the road, they don't pay tax, is the perception.

What you say to people who think that? I have a husband like that,

don't put that on television! Why should Stephen get on his bike?

There is no bike made for him! You like that dig at me, didn't you?

I would love to say something back, but I wouldn't get away with it on

the BBC. Thank you, my dear licence fee payer for that comment about me.

So do motorists and pedestrians unfairly give cyclists a hard time?

Or should cyclists get on their bike and be more considerate

Joining me is the commentator Malachi O'Doherty, a keen cyclist.

I'm surprised you're not in your lycra! I thought you should know the

full experience. What is that? What is that? It's what we were on our

long journeys. This is bum comfort, essentially. That you'll be taken

out and put down humanely. Don't touch his bum comfort! It's a

reinforced gusset. This is what the modern cyclist wears to get full

comfort in the cycle. You were the one who raised the subject of lycra.

You wouldn't be their biggest fan? I live with the cyclist so I do see

the value of cycling. The problem is that the infrastructure doesn't

exist for motorists and cyclists to cohabit safely and all I want is for

everyone to be safe, but the other problem is that because cyclists are

more vulnerable because they are smaller and more exposed, in a lot

of cyclists, not all, some of them cycle with a sense of entitlement.

They weave through the traffic, they cut the red lights, someone nearly

knocked a lady over when she was crossing at the pedestrian crossing

and cyclists are not registered, you can't identify them, they do not

have an MOT and they can zip off. If I cut a red light, I get a notice to

the post and tell me. Just watch a clip that we found a guy who was

cycling in the store a pedestrian about to cross at the zebra

crossing. The pedestrian was not pleased. Have a look at this. This

was last week. There is the pedestrian. He stops him and he is

teaching that cyclist a lesson. Well, the behaviour of the cyclist

was appalling. Cyclists are angels. There is no moral qualification that

comes with having a bicycle. It does not make you a better person. It is

appalling when they are riding down a road to a breast and they are

holding 30 cars behind them. That is the sense of entitlement. That is

the advice of the Highway code for their own safety. No, it's not. I

have this phrase now. Ask Rosie. Inspectors Rosie has told the show

that if a cyclist is riding two abreast on a busy road, that they

should pull over into single file and let the car passed. Well, it

happens to me. Now, I shout out that Rosie says to pull over. Rosie also

said that a motorist should be giving a metre and a half to a

cyclist. A cyclist takes up as much room on the road as a car does

because if a cyclist is knocked over, you flop over and that is the

space you need to survive. So Rosie said this and you know Rosie said

this. A metre and they have space. Rosie did the say that. What is your

view on the cyclists going two abreast with 30 cars behind? You're

trying to go home at night and there they are and they may be losing

calories and it is great. Oh, come on. And there we legs are going. If

I was riding two abreast with a friend or whether Angela on the road

and we were in that situation, I would make a judgment about whether

it was safe will stop if we were on a winding road for instance and what

I being asked to do is to move over to the curb and go single file to

leave enough room for a car to squeeze past at my jeopardy, then I

will not do that. I am entitled to space on delaying. You are right.

You are entitled to be safe. But also the Highway code, the

guidelines suggest that you have to cycle in the way that affords you

most the safety, even though you're not supposed to cycle on the

pavement. If it is safer for you to get onto the pavement, then you are

advised to do that. The problem is there is no parity in the statute in

the law between protection for the motorist and protection for the

cyclist, so even though cyclists, not all of them, if they do

something stupid, it is the motorist who copped it because... That is the

most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Can we put this somewhere

else? They are putting me off my stride. Don't be like one of those

militant cyclists. If you hit a car, God forbid you will come off worse

and the statute will immediately look at the way the driver was

driving. You should see how some drivers do drive. Thanks to Johnny

Bell from the Belfast Telegraph, he has been recording some footage.

Where are you, Johnny? There you up. How long have you been recording

this for? Probably about three years or so. Will we have a look at what

you have captured? Let's have a look at this.

That was close, that van. Was he in a bus lane? And is that a regular

experience? It would be regular, yes. Well, it comes and goes. It

happens quite a lot. That is why got the camera for my protection. And so

what do you think? Do you think that the balance is right? You yourself

say where is the parity, where is the statute? But when the two come

together, there is only ever one winner on the road. That is the

problem. Embarrassingly, I admit on television that I did have -- I did

hit a car on my bike and I paid the money and sorted it out. You are a

fine young man for doing that. Equally, it has been documented in

the had been stories in the press where cyclists have misbehaved and

they have shot off and you cannot apprehend them because there is

nothing to identify them. There is nothing... And the other problem is

there are a lot of cycle paths around but not a lot of cyclists are

using them because cyclists do get impatient in traffic. They have the

upper hand in terms of being able to weave around because. Guy with a

beard. Go ahead. Particularly rural country roads, I find cyclists,

especially groups of them when you are coming up in the car and they go

out, I believe it is a serious hazard for a motorist. If you are

trying to overtake them and you're having doubled back and then you're

holding up the traffic. Essentially what they are doing is trying to

protect themselves. They are taking up the wall wrote so you won't try

to do a manoeuvre past them. What is wrong with that? But you're keeping

the traffic behind you then add it could be dangerous the rest of the

time. We do have a group of cyclist, particularly in a cycling club, it

could be very dangerous for a motorist. I think there is a lot of

impatience and roads rage. Everybody is very stressed. We are living in

difficult times. There is a lot of agitation for the motorist as well.

And that creates a hazard both for the cyclist and pretty motorist.

There is no question of that. But the moment, the cyclists just have

acquired quite a militant voice. Whenever I have written about

cyclists in the way that they behaved, you should see the abuse

that I get. We are trying to keep each other saviour. Rather than

having a considered discussion, because the cyclists cycle with a

sense of entitlement, they feel they have literally the moral high

ground. They, they, they. I don't cycle. I am sure one day you will

discover the joys of it. You are speaking as if there is some

commonality of experience. 'S talking about cyclists as they

having militant attitudes. You cannot divide the world into

motorists and cyclists. Audience at the back there. Go ahead. I think

that personally in my opinion the roads in Northern Ireland are not

safe. I saw the video footage there. Motorists are going to close to

cyclists. They need to be given more space. But is that because the roads

aren't themselves equipped for cyclists to use them safely? It is

Government policy to favour the cyclist. Why? Because they wanted

the congested city. They don't get any revenue from a cyclist. They

want to improve movement. The cyclists move faster. I will beat

your car any day of the week. Yes, because you do not have to obey the

lights changing and you can weave in and out. How does that help the

traffic flow? Why is it Government policy? If I think of these bus

lanes, one of my favourite subjects, bus lanes where you're not allowed

to drive on half the road any more. Stay off half the road. You may not

be lying in your bed all day, you may be getting up to go to work and

paying thousands of pounds in tax and fuel every day to begin to your

car, that do not be using half the road because that is a bus lane. The

bus policy being let's carry 100 people rather than one or two. But

that is not what it is, Malachi. The bus lane is actually a cycle lane!

So I can drive down the bustling, but cyclists can go down there and

go even slower and hold up more traffic and they get the whole bus

lane to themselves. Because they can be stopped. I have never been the

position where I am holding up a bus behind me. I don't know what the

regular at buses is. I know life doesn't centre around my journey to

work. But there is a woman and a little man and she is on the bike.

And by the way, the bus is about 20 years behind the rest of the

traffic. The bike is going at about 12 mph or 20 mph. The bus will be

going probably not a lot faster than that. I see there is an in all me.

-- an anomaly. But the policy is to reduce congestion. They want you on

a nice bike and keeping yourself healthy. But if you use that

bustling, you cannot be called to account. There is no records to the

law in the courts if you are this man or woman on a cycle. Should you

have a registration on your helmet? I think perhaps. In the Swiss

system, they do. In the Swiss system, your number plate is issued

to the person rather than the car and you have to wear it on your

helmet as well. Should you pay road tax? You'll pay road tax. You pay a

tax on the field that you excel from your car. I do not excel any fumes

from a bicycle. I am not saying it is an either or situation. We have

an epidemic and become at it is costing the NHS. There is no

question that cycling is not a healthier option, but you touched

upon helmets. Helmets are not even compulsory. We have to wear seat

belts to make it safe for us and our passengers, but you swerve on a bike

in front of a motorist and you have no helmet on, you got your

headphones on. I saw a guy on his phone on his bike this afternoon. I

wish they would put as much emphasis into urging motorists to be careful

of cyclists. You have a blinkered view. It is only because URA cyclist

that you're saying this. I love cycling, I really do. I know there

are two different sized to this debate. Hopefully we can keep

talking about this. Well, that's it for another week,

but before we go we have some They are about to go on tour

with shows across Ireland, including the Lyric Theatre in

Belfast and Vicar Street next month. But now with their hit song

Mary, it's The 4 Of Us! # Making lots of money

and giving it to Frank # Oh Mary why don't

you have some sense # Please do something

to restore my confidence # He wrote a loving message

and left it by the phone # Everyone has heard the truth

but no one lets it show # Oh Mary why don't

you have some sense # Please do something

to restore my confidence # There are times

I lie there thinking # Oh Mary why don't

you have some sense # Please do something

to restore my confidence # Oh Mary why don't

you have some sense # Please do something

to restore my confidence