25/01/2017 Outside Source


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25/01/2017

Ros Atkins with an innovative take on the latest global stories.


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Hello, I'm Ros Atkins, this is Outside Source.

:00:09.:00:11.

Let's look through some of the main stories here in the BBC Newsroom.

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Donald Trump has signed into action orders to build his wall and limit

:00:16.:00:20.

funds to cities that protect illegal immigrants, and says building

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I would say in months, I am planning to start immediately.

:00:26.:00:35.

We'll also be picking apart what Donald Trump's latest

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policies means for abortion, the environment and immigration from

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A lot to get through - if you want to get in touch,

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It is hard to predict which subject areas will generate interest from

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your questions and most of the questions are about Executive

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orders, what the presidents can use them for, if there are any checks,

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can they sign of funding or of Congress needs to get involved. We

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have been looking at the questions on Executive orders, Anthony will

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join us in about 15 minutes and we can work through a lot of these

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issues. We must turn to some other really significant developments. Let

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us do that. Bit by bit. There are reports that Mr Trump might intend

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to lift a ban on CIA black site prisons, secret prisons or non-US

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territory used for interrogations and well President George W Bush was

:02:06.:02:06.

in power. The New York Times says

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there is a draft executive order that would roll back a series

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of restrictions that Barack Obama set on the treatment of detainees -

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other media has this But let's take note of this -

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the White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer says this document isn't

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from the White House. Can you shed any light on this draft

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memo going around about interrogation practices? Yes. What

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agency did this originate from? I don't know, it is not a White House

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document and for those who have reported on this, this is the second

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day that a document that was not from the White House has been

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reported on as factual. I have no idea where that came from. It is not

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a White House document. Donald Trump has been asked about water boarding.

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If he feels it might prompt some useful information. This was his

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reply... Absolutely, I feel it works.

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But he'll "defer to the Defence Secretary and CIA Director"

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But he is quite clear that he believes it is something the United

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States can justify and that it works. We can speak to Barbara Plett

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Usher. That statement on water boarding, is that a significant

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shift? He has saying that -- been saying that throughout the campaign,

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that enhanced interrogation techniques can be effective and he

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said that terror suspects deserve it but the caveat is significant. That

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he would take the advice or defer to the head of the military and the CIA

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and the head of the military has been clear that they will stand

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against enhanced interrogation techniques, this is something that

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do not advise, in keeping with government policy. At the moment we

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are looking at Mr Trump's opinion. If we see that enhanced in any

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Executive what we will have to question what will come from this.

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If he says he would refer to the Cabinet members and intelligence

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officials, it seems unlikely he will move forward on this. I wanted to

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mention reports on black sites, CIA prisons, we have seen organisations

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saying that they oppose this what I wanted to emphasise the caveat, we

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cannot confirm this is happening. What have you been hearing? This is

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something that is in the Pentagon and intelligence areas and I am at

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the State Department so there has not been a lot of talk here. But the

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document circulated talks about are a few of those black sites, it is

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something that President Obama did away with, something that was very

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much criticised at home and especially abroad and at Whitby at

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big step to bring them back but what does review mean? It means Mr Trump

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is thinking about it, he wants to signal he is ready to go in that

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direction and the question is, what do his key officials in the security

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team advise him? And if he is going to take the opinion of the top

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people on that, particularly the head of the military, he will be

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told he needs to temper that kind of approach. The next thing, I want to

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bring up some copy on the screen... Each of the stories would be

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considered significant on their own. This is from Reuters, the draft of

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an Executive order has been seen directing the Pentagon and State

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Department to create plans for safe zones for civilians in Syria.

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Barbara? What are you hearing? I can tell you that the State Department

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is scrambling to keep up with not only these executive orders but the

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reports about executive orders that might get issued so we're not

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getting any official reaction but I can say that this is consistent with

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what Mr Trump said during his campaign. He supported the idea of

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safe zones in Syria for civilians, essentially at the time he presented

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them as a way to keep Syrian civilians in Syria or east of the

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region as a way to stem the refugee crisis and another thing he said he

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-- is he would get the Gulf countries to pay for that. Would

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they do that? He has never detailed how this would work militarily and

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the government has not gone for them so far because to have a real one

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you have to have military muscle behind it, planes in the sky ready

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to shoot down any threat. This is quite a big deal to set up a safe

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sun but that will be studied, apparently. One last story of huge

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significance, if it happens. Reports that immigrants from seven

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countries, including Libya, Yemen, Iran, Syria and Iraq will be

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incredibly restricted in their ability to come into the US. What

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have you heard? That is part of Mr Trump 's promise to restrict

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immigration from countries that are seen as a real security threat

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because they have Islamic State or Al-Qaeda operatives in them and he

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says he is not convinced the betting is good enough to make sure there is

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no threat so this has not been announced from -- but from what we

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hear, the idea is to block immigrants or bases from seven

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countries, all of them North African and Middle Eastern, for at least a

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period of one month or more. In order to look at what the vetting

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practices should be. That would be something that falls to the State

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Department briefed and you can hear people here saying we have stringent

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practices already and we are not sure how far we can go unless that

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it is something he turned to instead of his initial promise, which was to

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block Muslims from coming to the United States. As it can see from

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the countries mentioned, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, they are all

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Muslim countries anyway. But it would be some specific countries

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rather than a blanket ban and the way it has been presented is this

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would be a temporary block to begin with, based on reviewing vetting

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procedures. It has been quite a day. Thank you for helping us for that.

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Barbara Plett Usher live from the State Department. We're spending the

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entire hour looking at developments with the Trump administration. We

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are taking you through these one by one. And also any questions you have

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on the stories we are covering. You can find me on social media and we

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have an e-mail address on screen. Mr Trump has already fundamentally

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shifted US policy on trade, energy, and immigration next

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to federal communication. Two departments have been

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on the receiving end of a de These are memos released

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to the media - they show the President has banned US

:10:10.:10:12.

Environmental Protection Agency employees from "providing updates

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on social media or to reporters". Similar guidance has been

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issued to Department That didn't go down well

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with someone with access Today, the amount of carbon

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dioxide in the atmosphere is higher than at any time

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in the last 650,000 years. The point was to say, please take

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climate change seriously. That and a couple of

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others were deleted. Matt McGrath is the BBC's

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environment correspondent. I wanted to know from him whether it

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would be normal for an environmental agency like this to communicate

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directly with journalists Pretty much so and what has happened

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in the United States under President Trump is very unusual. If you look

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at what he said about what he wants the EPA to be, he wants to be about

:10:54.:10:57.

clean air clean water. Not to be doing so much stuff on climate

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change. At the moment they have put in place a block on the EPA

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furthering grants and doing business and they have asked employees not to

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communicate about that. Whether that will be reviewed and what will

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happen, we don't yet know. Clean air and what is important but regarding

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climate change the suggestion is the White House will take a more central

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role on how America responds? You must understand the EPA has played a

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crucial role under President Obama on climate change, the Supreme Court

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Judge -- judged that carbon dioxide gas was a blatant and President

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Obama used EPA to regulate that. President Trump and his team believe

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the EPA is involved on putting up too much regulation that stop the

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oil and gas industry and the coal industry and he wants to remove

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those. The battle over climate has practical applications and President

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Trump sees this as key to the way he revives industry throughout the US.

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Is one of the applications that EPA will get smaller? That is what

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people fear, if not shut down, at least curtailed in many ways. Scott

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Pruitt, the Oklahoma Attorney General, who was likely to be the

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head of the EPA, has taken lawsuits against EPA. The belief is they will

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curtail this and its role in carbon dioxide production. We have talked

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about Federal Communications and immigration and trade and

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international security. We can talk about what he did on Monday.

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On Monday, President Trump signed an executive order cancelling funds

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for groups that offer abortions or abortion advocacy, even if they

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This means that aid agencies working in foreign countries will lose

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Today we've heard that the Netherlands is launching

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a global fund to try and cover the lost funding.

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The country's foreign ministry said "Where decisions are taken that

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are bad for women in developing countries we should

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"It's not about the politics, it's about those women."

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PAI is a global reproductive health organisation and says "This

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is a policy denying women life-saving services -

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it will cut off funding for groups providing HIV testing kits

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to teenagers, it will cut malaria programmes".

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But Donald Trump and his supporters argue this move is justified.

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The White House Press Secretary took on the issue on Monday.

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This is Sean Spicer. I think the President has made it clear he is

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pro-life. He wants to stand up for all Americans, including the unborn,

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and the reinstatement of this policy is not just something that echoes

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that value but respects Nick Sayer funding and ensures we stand up not

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just for life and the life of the unborn but for all taxpayer funds

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being spent oversized to perform an action that is contrary to the

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actions of this President. -- overseas. This continues to grow.

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Nancy Kacungira in Nairobi updated me on what this means

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for aid organisations in developing countries.

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Countries like Kenya. Simply, they are worried they will have to reduce

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the number of services they offer to some of the oppressed people on the

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continent. The thing about this iteration of the global bank is it

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has spread the net wider and it encompasses not just family planning

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at all global health funding. This means organisations working with

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malaria programmes here and with maternal health programmes, whatever

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it is, they have to ensure there is not a single part of any of those

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programmes that does so much as offer the suggestion of abortion.

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There is quite a lot of concern that this is going to impact them heavily

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in terms of the services they can offer. There might be some Americans

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who want to ask, why is it us that is required to provide the funding

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for this? That is a long-standing commitment that the US has

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continually made and abortion is a very contentious issue. Here in

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Africa, there are 1.6 million cases related to unsafe abortions that are

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tended to across the continent every year and there is not much funding

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coming from anywhere else. Aid organisations have traditionally

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relied on the United States for help with some of this funding,

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especially in countries where the restrictions and the law allowed

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abortion is very complex or very ambiguous. So it is for the longest

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term partnership but the United States has been involved in with the

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continent and many will be sad to see that change. Thank you. Let us

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continue on the coverage of all the developments today involving the

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Trump administration. I want to talk about Gary Cohn -

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he's Mr Trump's pick to lead the US Until that job offer came, he's been

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President of Goldman Sachs. His selection has sent the sent

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Goldman Sachs shareprice soaring It has gone up. This is January and

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it has been going up. He's going to have to divest

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himself from the bank - The Wall Street Journal

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puts a figure on it. It estimated that his exit will top

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$100 million. First of all, what is this job? What will he be doing? You

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will remember under the Obama administration he assembled a

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council so people who were within the business community and also

:17:06.:17:08.

economists who got around and talked a lot about what the direction of

:17:09.:17:12.

the US economy and what should be done about it. This is an extension

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of that same kind of idea. What is interesting is when you look at the

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wider Trump economic team, including other members of that team, there

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are a few Goldman Sachs veterans and that is part of the reason why we

:17:30.:17:35.

see the stock value going up so much and that is probably one of the

:17:36.:17:43.

biggest lifts to the Dow since the election, we have seen them entering

:17:44.:17:50.

the Trump administration. That might lead to a lighter touch regulation

:17:51.:17:54.

for the banking sector and perhaps we could see after the crash in

:17:55.:18:01.

2008? Exactly right. But just for banks in general and Mr Trump has

:18:02.:18:04.

spoken about this and his colleagues, about rolling back some

:18:05.:18:08.

of those backing regulations but specifically regarding Goldman

:18:09.:18:12.

Sachs, when you have more than a few people who are veterans of that bank

:18:13.:18:20.

as part of the demonstration, there could be a lighter touch

:18:21.:18:23.

specifically regarding that bank. Thank you for joining us twice. We

:18:24.:18:28.

have been getting lots of questions for you. Specifically about

:18:29.:18:33.

executive orders. We will get to those in a few moments.

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Women are experiencing widespread discrimination when it comes

:18:41.:18:42.

to dress codes at work, according to a parliamentary report.

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MPs heard from hundreds of women who reported that the dress codes

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She was told to wear high heels on her first day

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Scarlet Harris is the women's equality officer at the TUC.

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Melanie Bramwell runs a recruitment agency.

:19:04.:19:07.

I caught up with them to hear about dress code discrimination

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and how Nicola refused to toe the line.

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When I realised that they were insisting that all women wore high

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heels to portray their desired image, it made me realise that,

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actually, my employer didn't want me to just look smart and professional,

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And I didn't want to be seen as attractive in the workplace.

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So, Scarlet, how widespread is the issue?

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The committee found lots and lots of women talking

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about their experiences of being made to wear,

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not just high heels, but certain types of make up, being asked

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to wear sheer blouses, being asked to wear skirts

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The government said Nicola's dress code was unlawful,

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But MPs said that the law wasn't effective enough, leaving employers

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It is open to interpretation, as we say, the word reasonable

:20:02.:20:08.

is used there and that is open to interpretation.

:20:09.:20:10.

Is it so bad to ask a woman worker to wear a heel when we ask male

:20:11.:20:16.

I think they are two entirely different things.

:20:17.:20:22.

They took lots of evidence from women saying they were going

:20:23.:20:25.

home with bleeding feet, they were taking painkillers

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at night to be able to sleep because they were in so much pain

:20:30.:20:32.

from the shoes they'd been wearing during the day.

:20:33.:20:34.

That's just not comparable to wearing a tie or a suit jacket.

:20:35.:20:38.

Some might say this is all a bit of a storm in a teacup.

:20:39.:20:41.

They might very well do but you have to look at the bigger picture.

:20:42.:20:46.

There are plenty of women who like to wear heels to work,

:20:47.:20:52.

like to wear a face full of make-up to work.

:20:53.:20:54.

This issue, the high heel thing, is symbolic of a hangover from that

:20:55.:21:00.

1950s kind of era where women were only seen as secretaries

:21:01.:21:03.

and receptionists, and now we are running the companies.

:21:04.:21:05.

Let us wear what we want, as long as we are smart.

:21:06.:21:19.

This is Outside Source live from the BBC newsroom.

:21:20.:21:22.

Donald Trump has signed executive orders launching plans to build

:21:23.:21:26.

a wall on the US-Mexico border and limiting funds to cities that

:21:27.:21:29.

We can go back to Washington, Anthony Zurcher is here. We have a

:21:30.:21:52.

lot of questions for you about executive orders. A couple of people

:21:53.:21:58.

want to say, what about the funds? If you order something with

:21:59.:22:02.

executive orders, can you worry that the funding is in place? You cannot

:22:03.:22:07.

create new funding with executive orders but you can move the funding

:22:08.:22:13.

around so Trump might be trying to move some funds for the wall

:22:14.:22:17.

building previously allocated for other reasons into wall construction

:22:18.:22:23.

or something for subsidies and aid to Mexico into wall construction but

:22:24.:22:29.

Congress has the power and the purse and originally brings new funding

:22:30.:22:32.

into existence and Congress has to pass an appropriation. Someone asks,

:22:33.:22:38.

are the examples that fall outside the scope of executive orders? Well,

:22:39.:22:45.

anything that creates new law, take an example, immigration, Congress

:22:46.:22:54.

originally was trying to legalise what permanently normalise the

:22:55.:22:57.

status of children who had come to the country as undocumented and make

:22:58.:23:01.

them permanent residence or give them some immigration status and

:23:02.:23:04.

they did not do that so Barack Obama used an Executive order to say, we

:23:05.:23:09.

will not deport them, given temporary status. That was only a

:23:10.:23:13.

temporary move, he could not make a lot to say these people are not

:23:14.:23:18.

legal. In the same way he try to get Congress to pass laws increasing

:23:19.:23:23.

regulation of firearms. He wasn't able to so he executive orders that

:23:24.:23:33.

used some of his Presidential authority to increase scrutiny on

:23:34.:23:35.

gun sales but he could not outright ban assault rifles or have larger

:23:36.:23:38.

background checks at gun shows and things like that. Some people have

:23:39.:23:42.

picked up on this point... How long do these executive orders last, I

:23:43.:23:48.

have a prominent? Be last until they be repealed. Executive orders that

:23:49.:23:54.

Barack Obama put into place lasted through the expiration of his term

:23:55.:23:59.

into Donald Trump's term but because one President can do one thing,

:24:00.:24:03.

another can it so Donald Trump can enter them when he wants as has done

:24:04.:24:09.

with the abortion counselling and that he stated. We appreciate your

:24:10.:24:18.

help. What about tomorrow? More on immigration, particularly taking a

:24:19.:24:22.

look at people coming from other countries. There was talk about a

:24:23.:24:27.

ban on Muslims, I don't think we will see that but we could see some

:24:28.:24:31.

immigration visa bans on certain countries and also that could be

:24:32.:24:38.

further looking at refugees, perhaps a ban on Serbian refugees and a

:24:39.:24:42.

suspension of the US refugee programme. We will see. You will

:24:43.:24:46.

help us through that. Thank you. We appreciate that. Thank you for all

:24:47.:24:52.

of us who stayed with us. Lead story is President Trump has begun the

:24:53.:24:56.

process of building a wall along the US Mexico border but there have been

:24:57.:25:00.

many other developments besides. All the updates online. I will see you

:25:01.:25:02.

tomorrow. Goodbye. This time yesterday John was

:25:03.:25:16.

explaining how dry it has been in the last couple of months because of

:25:17.:25:17.