09/09/2011 Plaid Cymru Conference

Afternoon afternoon. It's political conference - and first up, Plaid

Cymru here in Llandudno. After disappointing election in in May,

this this ALL: About renewal so so where next for Plaid Cymru? Stay

with us for the hours hours for all the speeches ALL: The debate.

In the next half an hour or so - Ieuan Wyn Jones will deliver his

last speech to conference as as leader before he stands down in the

spring. We'll bring you that live, all the reaction, and all the

debate about who should succeed him and which direction he or she

should take the party. Watching every move, our political editor.

Good afternoon. And to you. Let's put it in context. It's a difficult

year for Plaid Cymru. Yes, exceedingly difficult. They have

had a taste of government. Ieuan Wyn Jones took them into government,

and then had this bruising defeat in May's election and lost their

grip on power - not just that, but dropped to third place in Welsh

Assembly politics. The meeting in Llandudno, they're not down and out

by any means or flat, either, I think they're up for a fight, but

the bad news is they've got a fight on their hands. They need to find a

new leader and find fundamentally where they're going now as a party.

We'll introduce the rest of the team in the hall bringing us the

events is Kill Elin Gwilym. Ieuan Wyn Jones is expected on stage at

2.30. It's his heart speech as party leader. We'll hear from him

later on in the programme. Thank you very much. Outside the hall

talking to all the delegates, Mark Hannaby. How is it looking? I hope

to speak to delegates from across the length and breadth of Wales to

answer the question you put earlier: what next for Plaid Cymru?

This is a real crossroads moment for them because not only are they

about to say goodbye to Ieuan Wyn Jones, but they've got that odd

situation where they've achieved a number of their main aims, and

helping bring about the full powers, law-making powers for the National

Assembly, statement as they suffered electorally. What is the

answer to that conundrum? How does a new leader put it forward? I'll

be trying to get as much information as I can. Back to Ieuan

Wyn Jones this afternoon. He's got to get the tone right, hasn't he?

It's a very personal speech we're expecting. What is the mood going

to be like because he's famous on deciding on the mood beforehand how

he does it, so he either learns it all and doesn't have a copy of

anything in front of him, or other times he's bound to the desk and

had reads the speech. He said, clearly, it's going to be very

different. It must be, because he wants to set out some sort of path

that he thinks is right for this party in the future, but he can't

bind or tie the bind or tie the hands standing standing here next

year giving the speech. We know what he, don't, don't we that the

duty for Plaid Cymru is to get back into - to take things slowly, to on

the proper on the proper found they they decide where they go next, but

that they not not treat to the treat to the hard go go back to

that come zone zone of their Welsh- speaking heart, they have to, they

have to try as as a range of voters as possible because the number one

aim has to be to get back into government. What about the aim of

independence? We talk about it in every conference, but they are

discussing this tomorrow, and some moves about let's trumpet it a bit

more? Yes, they've gone full circle on this a few times, it seems to me.

Many times in the past, they'll have done that again. There were

those conferences where they were not to mention the word

"independence", and you and I and other reporters will be listening

for the "i" word. Then there was the conference a fou years ago

where Where elyin Jones said it. Adam Price said the party should

own that word. It sounds like Louis and the X Factor saying you need to

owe that stage, but rather than people throwing it at us, let's use

it and explain what you mean by it. We're not going to get there

without people's support. If you don't want it, it will not happen.

They seem to be coming back to the view that Plaid will say what

independence means to them. Let's face it, what is happening in

Scotland, people will be seeing and reading about that, aware what

independence actually means now. Does it mean having your own

fighter jets? What does independence mean for those Welsh

voters? Dafydd Elis Thomas leadership candidate, possibly,

saying it's a mirage to talk about independence. Let's talk about real

politics and that's got one or two hot under the collar here while the

party is trying to reclaim the word but all sorts of fundamental issues

that Plaid need to decide. mentioned the leadership contest.

Who is in it now? Who are the official candidates so far? Elin

Jones, Dafydd Thomas saying he's intending to go for it as well. The

first name I heard Leanne Wood towards the left of the party, a

very different appeal perhaps to Elin Jones. Simon Thomas is

mentioned - I think it's pair to say that perhaps there was an

obvious name in Adam Price but given he can't stand, is not

standing, then he's not an obvious candidate. It's a pretty open field.

But people are not grabbing for the one name, they're saying, "Let's

listen to what they have to say." And there is no rush, is there?

it will be next March before we know who the next leader is. It can

work in a party's favour or it can get messy. Plaid's job is with

these fundamental decisions is to keep them as clean as possible and

not make them messy, I suppose. Ieuan Wyn Jones in 20 minutes will

stand up there, an emotional time for him. Really - because there's a

game going on, bingo about the speech? What does that mean an

interesting debate from this morning was about the future of

broadcasting in Wales. There was a motion down calling on conference

calling for those to fight for the future of S4C and indeed

broadcasting in all its glory in Wales at the moment, or lack of.

That bit is easy. Then there is this added little bit asking

conference to support those who will decide not to pay their

licence fee, in other words, break the law. You had Lord Dafydd Ellis

Thom mace say don't do this, we're a constitutional political party.

Let's not move the clock back to those days when we were, if you

like, campaigning a movement, a pressure group. We're not that. But

you had a fleet of other speakers saying no, hang on, we need to

deserve that title "national political party". Leanne Leanne

Wood saying it's not just about institutions, it is about

campaigning. In the end, I saw two hands going up in support of Lord

Ellis's argument, nearly unanimous not quite calling on people to not

pay their license but supporting those who won't. What is Plaid

going to be about? How will it communicate its message? Eurfyl ap

Gwilym is the one who will be telling them what he has found over

the last few months. An example where things can get a bit heated

and a bit messy but where there will need to be a clean decision in

the end. We will bring you more by the way on that debate.

First, let's go back to Mark Hannaby. I can see delegates going

into the hall ready for their speech. They're being stopped by

Mark. Yes, people getting excited by that speech. I'm joined by three

members of Plaid. I want to ask you each of you in

turn, what are you looking for from this speech? I think more than

anything some reflection, but also looking forward. Obviously, it will

be his last speech as our leader and I think the fact that he has

been the leader so long to reflect on that time and think where we go

now forward as a party in a positive way. Do you think there's

a danger you can spend a bit too much time thinking about where you

go next? It's already a few months since the election. Are you looking

for Ieuan Wyn Jones in putting down the baton to give a clear

indication of where the party goes next? We're in a period of

reflection, but it is a very strong sense in the party that we want to

move on, move from perhaps being, aiming to be the second party to

being the major party to leading our nation because having secured

the referendum on law-making powers, it's all to play for. I think we

have had enough of Labour since the election wasting that opportunity

of our first law-making parliament and we want to move on, be able to

use it, and I think perhaps if I've got any frustrations at all about

the last election, maybe we didn't make enough of the norms strides

that we made in government. I want maybe to reflect on that a little

bit, the huge growth in affordable housing, the first Welsh language

act to really extend into the private sector. I want to hear

reflect position tiflg on what he's done, not just for the party but

for the nation. We had a briefing with Ieuan Wyn Jones a couple of

days ago. He seemed to be suggesting he would be putting a

positive view on things, do you want him to look towards the future

though very much? Yes, I would be look to to Ieuan, a small part of

reflection on his very good career as a First Minister, and the people

much Wales owe a debt of gratitude to him, but I would be looking to

him to inspire the members of Plaid Cymru to rally around the new

leader whoever it is - not all have declared yet - but I would be

looking to Ieuan to rally us to get behind our new leader and get our

message across to the people of Wales. It's a positive message that

we have. This conference is buzzing. It's really vibrant. Look around at

all the young people. I feel a positive old man here and it is

great, it's really great to see. be fair there is certainly a good

atmosphere here, perhaps better than you expect when you had a

pretty rotten assembly election, you lost four seats. What went

wrong? We've also ha fantastic year in terms of gaining for Wales that

referendum, so we are positive. took the credit for it? Some things

are more important. We've moved the country forward, so we're happy.

You know, it's not just about winning elections. Those are very

nice and very important, and in the next assembly election, we want to

be gaining seats. Of course we do, so we can progress the nation

further. But this time, yes, we can learn lessons, but also focus on

what we've achieved for Wales, and I'm happy to be honest to think

about we've adhevd. It must be a frustration that you didn't seem to

get electoral credit for what those advances may have been, most

notably for law-making in the assembly. If there was a trade-off

to be made, this was the one to do it. For us, we're a political party

obviously but we're also a national movement. What Plaid is for is for

a stronger, fairer, Wales. And we will achieve that through the

referendum, and we're delighted we did that. In terms of moving

forward, it's been an an norms leap - enormous leap and we're proud of

that. I hear what everybody is saying about your pleas to wake

foils word. Do you know what went wrong in the last election? I think

it's obvious we didn't tell people what we achieved, and that message

has to be more succinct next time, and we've already got this review

taking place led by one of Wales' greatest thinkers. We've got a lot

of thinkers in Wales. They'll put it right. We as a conference and as

members will debate it, and we'll make sure that next time we'll get

our message across. We heard that a member of the Scottish Parliament

today how the SNP achieved. They were in the doldrums, they were

riding high, and we can do just that. There's nothing like a Welsh

team that is down. We will rally, and the country will rally behind

us, as we will on Sunday morning. Let's hope for that result on

Sunday morning to go the right way. Thank you all for joining me.

Thank you, Mark. By the way, Ieuan Wyn Jones will be joining us

straight after his speech, so if you've got a question for him,

Tweet us if you're following us on Twitter, at Wales politics. Let us

know what you would like to ask the departing leader. He'll be joining

us at about 3.30. As we await his speech in the main hall, let's look

back at some. Events taking place this morning. That broadcasting

debate which Betsan mentioned earlier.

The Western Mail reported that The politics Show, and other programmes,

could face the axe, as well as all political conference coverage, and

live coverage of Wales international football matches. In

a country which is is exceptionally dependent on the BBC for its media

coverage, this is deeply disturbinging, and I think I had

better make the point quickly as the cameras are rolling, we may not

have the privilege on that basis! What is the BBC for? Clause IV

clause - one of the clauses is one of the purposes is representing the

UK, its nations, regions and communities. Under the agreement

between the BBC and the UK government signed at the time of

renewal of the BBC charter in July 2006, the BBC undertook a number of

commitments in respect of this charter principle. For example,

developing and renewing the purpose remit for representing the UK, its

nations, regions and communities. The Trust must, amongst other

things, seek to ensure that the BBC promotes awareness of different

cultures and alternative viewpoints, through content that reflects the

lives of different people in different communities within the UK.

Under the public purpose remit representing the UK, its nations

and communities, the BBC undertakes to represent the different nations,

and to cater for the different nations, and to represent the

regions and communities to the rest of the UK.

The reality, as we know, is very different. As illustrated, for

example, by the panels and questions on Question Time and any

answers. In the Any Questions from Gowerton in May 2010 there was no

Welsh panellists in respect of of Wales. This is metropolitan BBC

moving around the country like some Royal progress from the Middle Ages.

Welcome though the jobs are in Cardiff Bay, I see no fulfilment of

the BBC's public purposes remit in Doctor Who or Torchwood. Their

visible connection to Wales is limited. A thriving media industry

is to be welcomed and encouraged but this would not matter if there

were other series which did fulfil the commitment to represent Wales

to the rest of the UK but these are noticeable by their absence. The

BBC complaints provider is - procedure is a sham, protected by

they are as a huge exemption by the Freedom of Information Act in the

name of journalistic freedom as I know personally. They entirely fail

to live up to their promises and now want to cut BBC Wales with the

scant regard this will cause in the cultural, political, and economic

life of Wales. Does this scenario remind you of anything? The BBC has

still not understood the meaning of devolution. Their attitude is

wholly unacceptable. The BBC have failed to fulfil their remit of

reflecting what is going on in different parts of the UK. It seems

they're more concerned about the latest reality programmes from

America than what is happening in the UK outside London. There

therefore must be devolution for the BBC. Devolution in politics has

at last given the people of Wales a voice in a political severe if it

is time that the principle is allied in the media severe. Does

anybody believe Jeremy Hunt knows anything about the cultural life of

Wales despite his protestations. The BBC itself should have a

federal structure. The treatment of S4C despite its statutory status,

must make it clear to one and all that decisions about broadcasting

in Wales can be made in Wales. We cannot afford to rely on the

priorities of London to safeguard our interests. With power comes

responsibility. Wales must be prepared to pay for the public

broadcasters it wants, including S4C. As a party whose ambition is

independence, we must plan for a sustainable public sector

broadcasting future in both our languages.

The current licence fee is nothing more than at that flat tax. Unlike

general taxation, licence fee income in Wales is the same per

head as it is in England. This licence fee is imposed on

every household for the principle of watching programmes that the BBC

decides to produce, with no real accountability to anyone, it seems

to me. Licence fee income for the BBC in

2010/11 was over 3.5 billion, so Wales' share of this would be

abouts �175 million. In addition, the BBC had income from other

activities of nearly 1.5 billion. Some of that should at least relate

to programmes such as Doctor Who and Torchwood. This should form

this financial framework - this financial framework should form the

background for looking at the financial impact of Wales relying

on its own licence fees paid directly from the licence payers to

BBC Wales rather than going via London. In a devolved UK, BBC Cymru

Wales should also be devolved. It should receive the licence fee paid

in Wales directly, and an appropriate relationship both in

respect of funding and programme developed with S4C. BBC Cymru Wales

should buy in the content that it does not produce itself from the

BBC centrally and other suppliers as it sees fit.

In this way, BBC Cymru Wales could properly plan for its own budget

rather than rely on what is left over when hoards of extraordinarily

highly paid executives have lifted their snouts from the central

trough and where dozens of reporters seem to be dispatched to

tea-parties in the US when perhaps just one or two might do. These are

difficult times, and require difficult decisions. This issue is

by - this issue is the question of by whom those decisions are made,

and for whom those decisions are made. Our democracy and society

needsor a public sector broadcaster reflective of its cultural, social,

economic and political aspirations. I therefore urge you to support

When I submitted the motion, I didn't expect any rejection. I'm

disappointed to see amendment one and I want to speak against

amendment 1. I remember, as many of you, I'm sure, the long and

difficult campaign in the 1970s and the 1980s to secure a channel for

Wales. The establishment of S4C was one of the seminal events of the of

the campaign to save the Welsh language. The Tory government had

to give in and keep their promise. Here we are, once again, backing

for S4C against another London government - Tories and Lib Dems

this time - ten years after establishing the assembly, they

published their plans for S4C without even letting the government

of Wales know that in itself, as Madoc said, proves the naed to

transfer responsibilities for broadcasting to the assembly, so

that our politicians, our elected Welsh politicians, are responsible

for S4C. But in the meantime, we must act on every level to defend

it, and I, as several others, have refused to pay my licence fee in

protest. The attack on S4C is an attack on the Welsh language, and

it deserves the strongest possible response. So I would ask conference

to show support for the campaign. We, as a party, co-operate on all

levels - Westminster, assembly, local and national, and on the

European level too. I have taken this up with the commissioner with

responsibilities for languages. Britain has signed the minority

languages charter which places a duty on the government to ensure

broadcasting in those languages. So this campaign is much more

important than the campaign for Wales only. It is important beyond

Wales and should be seen in that European context.

The protest of refusing to pay the licence fee is one part of the

campaign for S4C but it is an important part. It shows how strong

strong and how angry people feel, and it gives us a different

platform. Of course, every individual chooses

the best way he or she can act. Not everyone does the same. If every

campaign acts the same, of course, but we as a party who have

supported and who have led similar campaigns in the past, we should

give every support now to everyone who campaigns for the future of S4C,

so please don't vote for the amendment, and please support those

of us who have chosen to take part in this protest. We cannot lose

this opportunity. It is too important. Thank you. APPLAUSE

Dafydd Elis Thomas to introduce the motion. Thank you, members and

speaking on behalf of the group. I think what we have here is a motion

that goes part of the way to opening new discussion on

broadcasting - that discussion - in the sessions and committees of the

national stefrmly, but we must also move forward quickly to a more

influence on broadcasting on the agricultural policy. I think it's

very important to realise, if we haven't already, as we use our

media, as we have today, we should be discussing broadcasting, we

should be discussing all platforms of communication. What we need is a

clear communication policy for Wales through all media and through

all platforms, and this policy statement is an important step

towards that. But I do speak against what the

president said, because I don't think amendment 1 belongs now - the

paragraph, I'm sorry change in amendment belongs to the policy

development of a constitutional party in its conference. It's not

up to us to call on our members or any other - or any other to join

any direct action campaign. That is a matter for everyone, as you said,

how we wish to act. What is important is not to confuse the

squgs of which we're part on a political level by adding

conditions to that discussion that we support - to that discussion

that we support particular organisations. I have been a member

- I was a chair of the Welsh language board, but my main

function here today is to ask you to concentrate Plaid Cymru's

discussion on our work, ensuring there is a co-ordinated and

reasonable communication policy for Wales. Can I say one other thing,

we need to have democratic and effective control of public bodies

in Wales which act for us. The accountability of the S4C authority,

and the management of everyone in the communications field to the

people of Wales, is something that we need to consider as a matter of

urgency. I wish well to the new names who have moved to positions

of influence within the S4C board, but we're not talking about one

authority for one channel today, we're talking about the Welsh

language and the Welsh nature on all communication platforms,

including this excellent one here on my right.

I have had a load of slips from people who wish to speak. I do

apologise beforehand. Anybody who arrived late, I will miss out on

the opportunity because we have two other motions we have to have in

before half-past ten. The briefer your contributions, the, month of

you will be able to speak. I'm supporting the motion with

facts and figures which show just how bad English language television

is in Wales. Madoc has dealt with the report in Western Wales and the

costs to the BBC. Really, how many English language programmes dot ITV

and BBC produce for us? The answer is very, very little. We don't have

a national TV service in English. The reality is Welsh speakers who

have S4C have a far better service. It only broadcasts 125 hours a week.

The three English Channel broadcast 460 hours a week, and that puts it

in perspective. The three channels broadcast Welsh news, politics,

current affairs, sport and entertainment. But for the week

beginning 14 May, when parliament and the certainlyly were in session,

and were reported upon, BBC1, 4.5% of its production was Welsh, BBC2

was 2%, ITV was under 3%. For the Eisteddfod week, BBC Wales

broadcast three half-hour programmes, BBC2 bails, three half-

hour programmes, ITV1 Wales, one half-hour programme, so, three and

a half hours of non-news programmes on six days out of a total of 21

days. That's the situation. The cuts that have been suggested could

see the end of AM/PM in Cardiff Bay, we'll still get the daily politics

on BBC2. Remember the for the general election, the leaders'

debates. That was on network television.

But we weren't involved in it. The voting public demand and need

information about what our politicians are doing and saying

and campaigning on, and they need it from investigative journalists

working to the National Union journal I have to say' code of

conduct, not from press releases and stuff pushed through letter-

boxes. If we go back to predevolution days, when we weren't

- when Welsh news didn't cover the assembly, we would get little, if

any, TV coverage at all. The only way we're going to get a proper TV

service for English and Welsh speakers that identifies and

conforms to our national identity and culture is to have the

broadcasting come under the control of the assembly, and have a system

and a service that works for us, the people of Wales. Thank you.

I think that the motion sets out the threats to broadcasting in

Wales and touches on the importance of S4C to the Welsh economy. It's

curious, isn't it, that the government can find billions much

pounds much money to support the bankers, because that is important

to the south-east of England. But it is different in Wales, for a

part of our economy that is strategically important to us, that

that funding isn't there for Wales. It's curious, isn't it? Maybe not

that curious. We only need to look at examples like Can question Time,

-- Question Time, to see that the way they treat Welsh politics is

entirely different to the way in which they treat Scottish politics,

for example, and the way in which they underestimate the importance

of Welsh politics. For Wales, read England, is Question Time's motto.

I've decided not to pay my license. Well, for those of you who know our

family, Branwen has decided, and I've agreed with her, that we're

not paying our license. I've done it for a specific reason. I've done

it for my four-year-old daughter. I think it's important that she has a

broadcasting channel that is dedicated to her language and the

language of her home. I'm not paying my license on that basis.

But I would like to turn now to the amendment. The curious position of

the assembly group. This party has a long history of

supporting campaigns. If taken at face value, the amendment by the

assembly group would have meant over the years, because we're a

constitutional party now, we don't support those kinds of campaigns,

do we, any more? It would have meant that we wouldn't have

supported the friction dynamics workers here. We shouldn't have

them on the the stage, we shouldn't support those kind of campaigns. We

shouldn't support the poll tax campaigners - we shouldn't have

supported the poll tax campaigners, throughout the 1970s and the 1980s,

we shouldn't have supported the anti-apartheid campaign. That is

part of who we are. We do support campaigns. We do

support other campaigning organisations, and I expect this

party to support me and others who have decided not to pay our license.

APPLAUSE I wanted to say a word because I

was surprised - surprised and I was say it again that the assembly

group of Anglesey this this major vision of asking us not to support

this. I happen to be in the middle of the campaign. I was given the

job in the campaign to obtain S4C, the campaign, not to pay the

license. I have all their names and I've said my book - that's a plug!

Concerning these names, over 2,500, and not only that, but they also

paid, the working - we collected all these in addition as the money

that they didn't pay to the BBC, they paid to us, into a fund. No-

one else put a penny back, and that went to Plaid. It had considerable

effect in the major campaign. There were so many facets to that

campaign. As far as I can see, perhaps this is a first crisis that

S4C has faced, really, since then. I mean, things have been rocky, but

now it's a crisis. All we're saying in this explosion is asking for

support. You don't have to do anything, just that you say, "We

support." That's all we're asking for. Heavens above, some people say

we shouldn't express our support. It sounds very odd to me, and I'm

very sad to me that. All I'm asking you is please reject this useless

amendment. Thank you. APPLAUSE

2 I want to speak against this amendment too, because I take the

view that if you feel strongly about something, you've got to do

something about it. Conference, we are a political party. Our members

get involved in campaigns, often more than one campaign at a time,

and we are members of a number of different campaigning organisations.

Of course, there are plenty of ways to campaign. And the witholding of

the TV licence fee may not be for everyone, but I would argue that

just like the non-payment of the poll tax, it is a valid campaigning

tactic. Now, if conference votes to delete this last paragraph in this

motion, as per the amendment, it will be interpreted by some as a

signal that Plaid Cymru does not support the campaign to save S4C.

Politics is much more about institutions and elections. It is

about campaigning, it's about rolling up your sleeves and getting

involved at a grassroots level. For me, democracy is about maximising

people's participation in politics. Politics and democracy should not

be allowed to be the sole preserve of politicians. Now, this party has

a very proud history of campaigning and linking up with campaigning

groups who share our values and our principles not only in Wales but

right throughout the world. I would ask you please reject this

amendment, let this party support those of us who are not paying our

TV licenses as part of this campaign, and let's give this

campaign all the strength that we possibly can.

APPLAUSE Keith Parry, I'm a Councillor in

Cardiff city. What I was going to draw people's attention to is radio

Wales which on the whole produces some excellent political and

documentary programmes, but, unfortunately, cannot be heard in

large parts of Wales. It's available on AM, that's medium

waive radio, which is going out of fashion, and in fact the government

is threatening to close down all the medium waive radio stations

within the next couple of years. It's available to about 60% of the

population on FM, and largely in North Wales not available at all.

It's also available on the new DAB radio which is supposed to be

taking over from medium waive radio. It's available on DAB along the M4

corridor, and nor where else in in Wales, and it's very unlikely to

become available in most of Wales for many years to come.

These decisions are being taken by London. They've spread DAB radio

across Wales which broadcasts eight UK national stations, which is all

well and good, but you cannot get BBC Cymru or BBC Wales radio on DAB

for most of the country. The effect of that is less and less people are

hearing news about what is going on in our country. We have a crisis in

television, as HD television comes in, there is no local programming,

we have this crisis in the press where the sales of the local papers

are in decline, particularly in the Western Mail, and we have this

crisis in radio where the current good radio service is disappearing.

We need control of broadcasting in this country devolved to the

government of this country before we disappear altogether.

APPLAUSE Can you be brief, there are a

couple more to speak. I have the pleasure of working in broadcasting

for almost 12 years before S4C, I had the privilege then of working

for S4C for another ten years. I'm sure it is difficult for people to

realise and remember today the amazing, tremendous difference

there was between those two periods, the paltry few broadcast in the

pre1982 years, and the enormous wave of good programmes since then.

We are today facing a situation we can revert to that pre1982 scarcity

of Welsh programmes before S4C, so please support the motion, and

appeal perhaps to ensure that the clause when we're talking about the

public bodies measure, and taking S4C out of that measure. The bill,

which would allow the government ministers do what on earth they

want with S4C. Now, I hadn't heard the Welsh Conservative Party, and

they've become very prominent in their their Welshness, recently,

haven't they? I haven't heard them say they're going to defend S4C.

Jeremy Hunt says that he's got a great deal of money to give to

local television. We don't want it to go to local television, we want

it to go to national television. For heaven's sake, convince the

candidates and the Conservative Welsh, so-called, members in this

constituency. Tell them what we want to see: national television in

Wales, and I make that appeal lastly. I'm a grandfather, a recent

grandfather, and very proud of that. Again, perhaps, the appeal is what

S4C is offering at this moment to the children of Wales is excellent.

The output is good. If we lose that, we shall have lost an extremely

valuable contribution to their future, and their Welshness. Thank

you. APPLAUSE

Good morning, conference. May I thank you for this motion relating

to broadcasting in Wales. I have a specific interest about the fate of

S4C for a number of reasons. The statement on the back of an

envelope, not the back of a stamp on by the UK minister, was a

extremely - about the funding method of the SC4. That's what's

kraoted this crisis. Let's be careful of one thing that we had

the discussion about the S4C relates to structure. That's not

the most important argument. I think the important argument

relates to content, quality, and the ability of the channel to

attract and retain viewers, and attract wairbl-speaking and non-

wairbl speaking. Another part of the vitally important argument is

the economic importance of S4C, where there are independent

companies that employ large numbers of people that maintain their

villages, communities, where Welsh is the main language, and that is

most important. We all agreed on that, I'm sure,

and we all agree with the motion as it stands were it not for one part.

This encouragement to support direct action campaign, in case you

think I'm scared of campaigns like that, I will probably be facing a

legal challenge by one company concerning the Bangor car park at

the moment, and a beautiful train company that refuses to provide

anything in Welsh, and who knows what will happen there? We as Plaid

members are not scared of direct campaigning. We're not afraid to

show the responsibilities, even if that means in court, but we need to

be clear as to our role, and I think the (inaudible), it's not our

role to encourage individuals. That is a matter for individuals. Let us

be wary of the word "support". I don't think we need to say support

without action. I don't think that would be wise or honest. I think

the amendment is very appropriate, and enables everyone to make his or

her own decision and support. was this morning. By the way, the

motion was carried. Now, we must cross into the hall because it's

the highlight of the day, and the departing speech of the leader,

Ieuan Wyn Jones, his last speech to Thank you. Thank you very much For

that welcome. As everybody knows by now, this will be my last address

to Plaid Cymru as their leader. Normally, of course, the speech

would normally summarise the others - summarise the year, and look

forward to the year we face. This time, I'm sure you'll forgive me

for not adhering to those rules strictly. I'll follow a different

pattern this time, by looking perhaps at a Juan vase that is a

little bit wider. The first thing I want to do is to thank from the

bottom of my heart all the support that I've received during this

period as leader of Plaid Cymru. I would like to pay particular

tribute to the members of the party, the members of the party across

Wales for their support. It's been something that has sustained me

during all this time. I would also like to pay a certainly special, if

you you tribute, if you'll forgive me, in Anglesey for their support

during this time. They've seen their member being a national

leader, and a minister, and spending quite a lot of time away

from what is happening, and so my thanks to the members of there is

something I would like to make quite public today.

I would also like to thank the staff of the party and the offices

of the - officers of the party for their support throughout this

entire period. And, of course, this is not just an end to the period

for me as leader of the party, it's start of a new period for a new

chief executive, Rhianna Richards, and I wish her all the best within

her new post. I would also like to thank

particularly the elected members of the party on every level,. Being in

a leadership role means you need the support of those who work

closest to you, and I would like to thank all those people on every

level. Naturally, there were a number of members who gave me

support during this most recent period in the One Wales Government

who we've now lost from the assembly, and I would like to thank

Helen, Dai, Nerys and Chris during their support during that period.

Please, would you give them a warm thanks for us for their support.

APPLAUSE Andrew - those four, as you heard

fromenerries this - from Nerys this afternoon, a huge contribution to

make to the party. Although, of course we are disappointed, and it

was a massive disappointment, I would like to thank Gareth Jones,

and Janet Rider who have retired from the assembly, and wish them

well. We now welcome new members in Simon

and Lindsey, who I can tell you in Plaid Cymru, that's where the best

talent lies. Thank you, the three of you, for reinforcing the work of

the party in the assembly. It's been a privilege.

It's been a privilege to lead this party at such an exciting period in

Welsh history, and I would like to talk a little bit about that

history, but, the period of 11 years in a leadership role is quite

enough, and it's now time to hand over the reins, and I do so in the

certainty that this party has a central place in the politics of

Wales. Now, naturally, people question the

role and the place of Plaid Cymru after each election, and this next

period will be no different, I would have thought. But, for those

of us who have seen the ebb and flow of the political world, I

think the best advice I could give is not to make rash decisions -

that's the best advice I can give. We've already asked (inaudible) for

reviewing and renewing the work of the party and ask (inaudible) to

lead his team and continue that work at the end of the year and

beginning that year, to consider his recommendations carefully, and

we have the time to do that. Local elections are happening next

year, but then afterwards, there will be a period without elections

on the national stage. We haven't had an opportunity like

that for several years. We have had elections, and now we have an

opportunity, a real chance, to sit back and consider seriously what

the next steps to be taken in the history of the party and more

importantly than that, what are the next steps in the story of Wales.

Now, I want to remind people who don't know that I have been a

member of Plaid Cymru since 1965, and for those of you who can do the

maths in your head, that's 40 six years.

I have a record here, because this is the membership card, the first

membership card, I ever had as a member of the party in 1965.

: "Mr Ieuan Wyn Jones, signed by Mr Evans."

It's dated 6 October 1965. So, ivg been a member of this party

for quite a long time. But I can tell you now I didn't join the

party at that particularly good good time in its history. In 1964,

the party did very disappointingly in the general election. In truth,

it had lost ground. For those of you who are old enough to remember

or have read your history books, in March of 1966, Plaid Cymru did

appallingly badly in the elections in March of 1966. Within less than

four months, we won at car marathon. So, you see, that's what politics

is. You think that you're in a period of ebb and then suddenly

flow comes along. If you talk to these pundits, they think that

politics is something perfect, but, actually, things don't happen like

that. The fact that we won in 1966 transformed of course what was

happening in the politics of Wales in the period that followed in 1964.

We got 69,000 votes, 69,500, to be accurate, there was no sightful

getting an MP, no parliament in Wales, no representation at all as

you know in the European parliament, and only a handful of councillors.

In 2011, when people say we have had a doing election, we've got

more than 182,900 votes, nearly three times as much as 1964, three

out (inaudible) in the parliament of Wales, and one member in the

parliament, and more than 200;, academic intellectuals in their

ivory towers saying after the 2011 election, "What is the point of

Plaid Cymru now?" Is there any purpose to the existence of Plaid

Cymru?" Well that same question is being asked back in 1964, and if

Gwinfar Evans and all those parties then had listened to those

intellectuals, they'd have have given up. If Plaid Cymru had given

up in 1964, the history of this nation would have been very

different to what it is now. And though we've walked a very, very

long way since 1964, though we are far more confident nation in 2011,

there is now more of a need of Plaid Cymru on this nation than

ever before. APPLAUSE

We would not have had a referendum in 2011 were it not for Plaid Cymru.

Not only would we not have had a referendum, we wouldn't have won

the referendum in 2011 were it not for Plaid Cymru. I can say this

with certainty that the next step on the national journey will not be

taken unless Plaid Cymru leads it. APPLAUSE

I'm proud, as I'm sure you are, of the contribution to the party in

government over the last four years. I would like to pay tribute this

afternoon to my fellow ministers, to Ely, Fred, Jocelyn, for what

they achieved as ministers, and for the group for supporting me. I'm so

proud of them, and so proud of the work they did. APPLAUSE

If I have one concern, amongst others, possiblyly, it's worth

noteing what we achieved in government, and looking back, we

would have been better off making more of that, of those achievements

during the election, crow about what we had achieved. We must list

some of those things. Do you remember them? Keeping hospitals

open; organising that there is a comprehensive health service

available in all parts of Wales; building more than 8,000 affordable

homes. There are 8,000 families now in

those homes with a roof above their heads because a Plaid Cymru

minister ensured that money would be available.

Those of you who do the travelling from north to south, you'll see

some of the things we've done to improve the links between north and

South, transforming the way we support businesses and companies,

creating more apprentices, keeping tuition fees down and the new Welsh

language act, establishing a federal college, creating a

strategy to plan an implementation for Welsh education. A new plan for

newcomers to the agricultural industry, implementing a plan to

get rid of TB in cattle, and, of course, winning the referendum to

get a proper legislative parliament for Wales. That is a record that

any party would be proud of. APPLAUSE

I'm sorry, I would like to say this. It's the responsibility of every

National Party to ensure that they're ready to govern their

country. Wales is our country, and it's our responsibility to ensure

that the governments of Wales delivers the aspirations of the

nation. I never felt that our role was delegating that responsibility

to another party and then complain when things went wrong.

If we had done that in 2007, consider seriously what would have

happened. Rhodri Morgan being led by Peter Hain, our friend? And no

parliament for Wales. Is that what the fate of Wales is to be? An

unbroken (inaudible) of government, weak.

APPLAUSE A weak government without a back

bone under the thumb of people like Peter Hain and ed etd balls, or a

government with steel in its character, with enough backbone to

stand up to London and say actually it's the priority of people of

Wales that come first for us, not the plyorities - priorities of the

people of the Labour Party. Labour in London did everything

they could to stop the referendum from happening. They used every

possible tactic. Some of you will remember them.

Wales will never vote in favour of a parliament in 2011. We will

endanger the future of Wales by insisting on having a referendum in

2011 and even on the 11th hour, when we are setting the motion down

in the assembly, they tried to stop it at the last minute. The plain

truth is they didn't care about the future of Wales. They cared more

about the future of the Labour Party and its MPs in the

Westminster parliament. Though the step was taken to us was very

important, and I don't want to belittle that at all, that's not

the end of the journey for the party, or for Wales. Wales needs

Plaid Cymru more than ever. Plaid Cymru has given the aspirations for

the people of Wales a voice in the 86 years since its formation, and

from now on, Plaid Cymru needs to raise its voice once more as

another chapter in the national journey opens up in front of us.

How can you justify a situation where a governing body is not

accountable for the money it's spending here? Wales? How can you

justify an arrangement with a - where the smallest community

council has the right to raise money but the government of a

country hasn't the right to raise a How can you justify a situation

where the Senate, the parliament of the country, is utterly blind on

the Treasury in London for its budget. -- utterly reliant. We

cannot even bother of a penny to build hospitals and schools. --

borrowed a penny. The grip of the Treasury are like shackles on the

hands of Wales, treating us like unruly children. It is stifling

entrepreneurship. It is time for us to get rid of those shackles and to

insist on the right of Wales. APPLAUSE The right of Wales to take

more responsibility for its own fate. We have a chance to do so. It

is going to rear its head quicker than you think. Before long, we

will be discussing all of those issues. And think of what an

advantage that will be in the current economic climate. Let us

say that Wales needs Plaid Cymru. But why? Some people may say, you

have got the Senate now, but the next step, it is just as important.

-- Senedd. The right to raise money, to be accountable, and that final

proof, in any democracy, is that it will be accountable and take

responsibility for what it does. The question that I will be asking

myself as I deliver my final speech as leader, from the conference

floor, is, where is the party going? Where does it go from here?

In this decentralised world, there is only one place that can go. And

that is to aim to be the biggest party in Wales. The party that

leads Wales. The party that governs Wales. And in our modern politics,

with a proper parliament, with the obvious potential for more powers,

with the people of Wales chomping at the bit for a full government

with a clear vision, the great mission for us is to offer the

leadership, to strengthen that feeling of identity, to make people

proud to be Welsh, to take pride in what Wales has to offer the world.

Does that mean that we will lose our reason to be as a party, lose

our vision, lose Our Seoul? -- lose Our Seoul. The one thing we have to

acknowledge in this political world, there is no such thing as a sure

thing. After all, Plaid Cymru is not a religious sect, it is not a

set of beliefs, it is a dynamic movement. It has a set of values

that can adapt to meet the challenges of the age. We are rain

National Party looking for the best for Wales. What is best for Wales

in 2011 is very different to what was best for Wales in 1925, and

certainly different to what it was in 1997. The party has the same

values. It is a party that believes in fairness and equality, it is to

the left of centre on the political spectrum. It is a party that wants

to see community's thriving economically, culturally and

socially. But now, Plaid Cymru is a party with experience of government.

Though there have been restrictions and many hindrances, and though in

spite of the election result in 2011, I'm confident that we can say

that Wales have marched forward. There is a need for Plaid Cymru to

take its responsibility and when the responsibility comes in the

future, to lead the government of Wales. When the opportunity arises,

we need to take that opportunity. We own the future, friends, and we

must now grasp it. A's -- APPLAUSE. As this is my last conference

speech as leader of the party, I want to cast my eye over the past

few years. Don't worry, this is not going to be history lesson.

Although I hope there will be one are two lessons that the party will

remember as we face the next period in our journey as a party and as a

proud nation. Let us begin by remembering one thing above

everything. This party was formed because Wales needed a party but

was prepared to put the interests of Wales above all else. In our

long history, the party has faced enormous challenges. We have

witnessed differing fortunes depending on an electoral cycle.

Yet even in the scenes of our greatest triumphs, as well as our

worst moments, we have not forgotten that central mission,

which is to put the interests of Wales first. I'm sure we can all

remember occasions were we have put the interests of Wales even before

the interests of our own party. That is what defines us in the

politics of modern Wales, because know what the party has ever been

prepared to do that. No other party will put the interests of Wales

before their own interests. For them, political calculations or

political advantage weighs heavily. It does not with us. And yet the

paradox is this. Wales needs a strong and resolute Plaid Cymru to

make sure that Wales moves to the next stage of our national journey.

In the past, London has listened. When Plaid Cymru was strong and

seen as an electoral threat, if you read the Cabinet papers of the

Sixties and Seventies, you will see that. And yes, the British state

made concessions to Wales when Plaid Cymru was winning or

increasing its share of the vote. That was true until 1997. Then, of

course, the political dynamic change to. -- changed. There is the

feeling that Whitehall can ignore Wales because it has its own

Assembly. That phenomenon applies, whichever party is in power. It was

true for Scotland as well. Now that Wales has its Assembly and Scotland

has its parliament, we can forget about them, to the north and the

West. But it was only true for Scotland until the SNP became the

largest party. There is a lesson for us there in Wales. It is no

longer good enough for Plaid Cymru to be making small advances here

and there, winning the board seat now and again. -- the odd seat. For

Wales to succeed now, Plaid Cymru has to be in the Government of

Wales. To put it another way, Wales cannot succeed if Plaid Cymru is

content to be in permanent opposition. Does Whitehall treat

Wales and Scotland the same in 2011? Of course it doesn't. Why?

Because Scotland is a majority SNP Government. Wales has a minority

Labour government. What has been happening since May? Who has been

making the running for extra powers? Who insisted on an early

meeting with the Chancellor of the Exchequer to get more fiscal

autonomy for the nation? Who has been demanding greater self-

determination for their nation? Was at Alex Salmond? Or was it Carwyn

Jones? That is not a rhetorical question, there is an answer to it.

It is Alex Salmond, of course it is. Labour in government went into the

election after the 2011 Election, seemingly afraid of their own

shadow. Constantly looking over their one shoulder, wondering if

they are upsetting their bosses at the other end of the M4. What is

the deal for Scotland? The Calman Commission has delivered borrowing

powers of �3 billion. It has more powers to set income tax rates. It

has more powers to levy Scottish taxes. Pollen all, the Scottish

Parliament is responsible for one- third of the money it spends. --

all in all. Alex Salmond did not stop there. He has called for even

more powers. More powers to borrow money, control over corporation tax

and money from the fossil fuel levy. Wales has no powers to raise a

silver -- a single penny of the money we spend. So we have already

fallen miles behind Scotland in securing formal powers over our own

finances. That is what the SNP Government under Alex Salmond have

secured and called for. What does Labour ask for Wales? Well, they

won the immediate introduction of the Barnett formula, some borrowing

powers and powers over small taxes which someone on flatteringly

called Mickey Mouse taxes. That will raise only 2% of the money

that will Spence. The reason for that, let us be clear, Ed Balls

will not allow Carwyn Jones to call for reform of the Barnett formula.

There we have it. Scotland is powering ahead, and nation on the

march, in Top Gear. The SNP Government, and Wales lagging

behind with low ambition, in reverse gear, going nowhere under a

Labour government. A's -- APPLAUSE. We said in the general election

that Wales would standstill on the Labour. We were wrong. -- stand

still under Labour. Wales is going back under Labour. We are losing

ground. We are run reverse gear at a time when people are facing

unprecedented cuts in public spending. It is time to stand up

for Wales. At a time when people are losing their benefits, when

people with disabilities are being denied their benefits, it is a time

to stand up for Wales. At a time when people are losing their

housing benefit and more and more people are becoming homeless, it is

time to stand up for Wales. Do you remember who use that slogan in the

election? It was Labour's slogan. It is not a case of Labour standing

up for Wales, they are standing aside. It is Plaid Cymru's role to

be the Government of Wales. We would never stand aside because we

would stand up for the people of Wales. I'm not actually saying that

we should rush into government immediately. A party, from time to

time, as now, will need some time, some occasions to reflect, to renew,

to reinvigorate itself. I'm sure we will need time to reflect on the

2011 election. Not rushing to hasty conclusions, and allow the

commission to look at things and bring forward recommendations. But

when the time is right, we should never turn down the call to lead

our nation. It is our duty and we should always step up to the plate.

Being in government demands discipline. As I said, it can be

intensely frustrating. At times, it involves making difficult decisions.

You have to make tough choices, but it is our responsibility to lead

Wales. We have seen what happens when Labour is left to do it on

their own. Wales has already started on the long journey to be a

more self-confident, more self- reliant and more mature nation. The

train has left the station. There is no going back now. Labour will

try to take us down some sidings, but they will hit the buffers.

Plaid Cymru has to lead to get Wales back on track. It will not

always be an easy journey. At times, it will be a bumpy ride. Sometimes

we will have to stop for refuelling, but getting back into the driver's

seat, we must. One Wales was the beginning, not the end for Plaid

Cymru. And I have no hesitation in saying today that it is the best

government Wales had since 1999. We A mistake we made in 2011 was not

telling people what we did in government. We should have told

people what we achieved. Wales is a better place because of that

government and Plaid is responsible for that. We must be able to sell

ourselves better, not be afraid to claim credit for the things that we

did. However, striving to be a party of government, becoming the

biggest party in Wales, means we have to accept certain challenges.

We cannot run after every hair off follow every house. We have to

persuade people that we are ready to run Wales. That does not mean we

give up campaigning or speak out on issues but it does mean that we

have to be checked to people who have never voted for Plaid in the

past ought not voted for us more than once or twice. We must make

Plaid Cymru oh a comfortable home for the majority of the people of

Wales, what ever the language they speak, whatever their background.

We did good things in One Wales but there is still more to do.

Education needs to be sorted out. Levels of literacy and numeracy are

a scandal. The health service needs firm direction, tackling the causes

of ill health as well as healing the sick. Making sure cancer and

stroke treatments are given vital early train and -- treatment and

making a end of life care as good as it can be. Making sure gone

people are given the skills they need to meat that challenges --

young people are given the skills they need to meet challenges. It is

about that rather indefinable thing called confidence. I believe that

the people of Wales now have the confidence to go to the next stage

on that journey. History teaches us that the nation's march on freedom

has to be based on the support of its own people but also on the

willingness of its leaders to take calculated risks. In the past, it

is true that Wales has been held back as a result of that

indefinable thing called lack of self-confidence or lack of self-

belief. I have lost count of the number of people who have told me

that Wales would never vote yes in 20th March 11. They kept telling

meet Wales is still not ready for it. They would never vote yes, they

kept telling me. They lacked the essential self-belief that is

necessary to win. I can understand why people were nervous. It took

more than a little courage to take that step. But I knew that the

people of Wales were ready to take that step. Any he journeys to deal

to take decisions like that and Wales, I believe, is ready to take

further steps. The timing has to be right but nothing will be came to -

- gained by being timid. Plaid needs to be bold, to set out

clearly our vision for Wales, to make sure Wales has the resources

to bring better prosperity to our people. My time as a leader is

coming to an end. Candidates to become the next leader are

beginning to declare themselves. Any more today, I wonder?! It has

been a great honour to be president and party leader for the past 11

years. The party has only had eight Peter's in its history, and to be

one of them is a rare privilege. -- 8 leaders. A new leader opens a new

chapter in the party's history, a new face giving voice to power

hopes and aspirations for a better Wales. Wales needs Plaid Cymru more

than out there and we need to give our next leader all the support

needed to make Plaid the natural party to govern Wales. As I take my

leave of the leadership stage, in the spring of next year, I pledge

my support to the next leader and to the party I have been a member

of for 46 years. TRANSLATION: The think you very much for your

support. Thank you for the privilege of leading you and as I

leave the stage before long, were confident is that the party has

taken Wales further on his journey to freedom. We have a long way yet

to go. As the old saying goes, it has been a great beginning, the

DUE joke: there we are, or the best is yet to come, the message to his

party. Receiving have very warm reception from delegates in this

hall. He is not always one that has been comfortable, or seems to enjoy

the spotlight, but obviously this moment, he is enjoying. His wife

greeting him as he leaves the stage. The past 11 years he has spent at

the helm of his party and it has been quite a roller-coaster. He was

keen to list the achievements of the party, how far they have come

since he joined the party in 1964. Also keen to list the achievements

in government with flavour as well Let us look in detail at the speech

with our political correspondent, John Stevenson. There is something

about leaders departing a stage, they tick deep. Absolutely. I do

not think the word passion is normally associated with a speech

by a Ieuan Wyn Jones but there were rare flashes of passion which

suggested to me that there was a man feeling liberated. It is a key

month since he was liberated from the pressures of office in

government but this afternoon we saw a man liberated from the change

of leadership. Also liberated from the expectations of his own party

members and maybe of his own political expectations as well. It

was a rare glimpse that we do not seem very often of Ieuan Wyn Jones.

It is very much his swansong and in the mould of the speeches of

departing leaders. You address the delegates in the whole but you are

reaching out as well to go wider watching public and the people who

read the newspapers tomorrow. You she saw a glimpse they're not just

of reaching MP on the whole -- not just we chink out beyond the hall,

but reaching out to his own past. And admitting that he has made

mistakes as well. Not least, not trumpeting the successes, as he saw

it, of One Wales. That was a crucial part of the speech, it same

we made a big speech by being in that government with Labour --

saying. Almost going as far as to say it was arid cheap and that made

that government a success but admitting dated not make enough of

it in the election -- our achievement that made the

government a success. The comparison, I can, eg do not push

it too far, is a very apt. A lot of people in the party, and would not

say they like Tony Blair, but they respected his achievement, and I

think there is a lot of respect for Ieuan Wyn Jones, at not least

because of his skills as a political strategist. I think there

will be a sense of loss for that. I am reading the diaries of Chris

Mullin's at the moment and there is a telling sentence in their. A

fascinating read, by the way! I am not advertising! After the 1997

election, the first meeting of the Parliamentary Labour Party, Chris

Mullin said it is very strange adapting to our new circumstances

and the thing that is very true of Labour after 1997 and very true of

Plaid Cymru after it this year. Unless I missed it, not a single

mention of the word independence. He avoided it. Exactly. The whole

purpose of us being here is looking at the political nuances in the

speech and it was very telling. A lot of reference to Alex Salmond

and to Scotland steaming ahead. One of the reasons for that is that

Alex Salmond made no secret that the whole reason for the SNP is the

business of independence. Not a whisper in this speech about

Independent. I think that was very telling. We can asking why because

he will be joining us very shortly. Meanwhile, lots of delegates

flooding out of the whole. Letter speak to some of them.

I am joined by three delicate. Can I ask you your immediate response?

I think it was a very exciting speech and a speech that was needed

for us as a party because he managed to confirm the context for

us as a party and what our role is, and that is not only a role to move

Wales forward but to do that in government and two main to be the

majority government of Wales. took aim to be. There was an

element of looking at to see how far Plaid Cymru had come, did that

meet with your approval? Absolutely. It was exciting, looking forward,

and we cannot wait under the leadership of Eurfyl ap Gwilym to

look to the future of the party. Was there enough there about how

you move forward, perhaps more about what is wrong with Labour

than exactly how do other come your electoral difficulties? I think

what was important was that Ieuan Wyn Jones, even as he is stepping

down, was out lining to the members what needs to be done. He is taking

stock of what has happened and telling us this is what you have to

do. Do not be scared, do not apologise but look forward. Not

enough has been made of the fact that Ieuan Wyn Jones has delivered

for us, behind-the-scenes, in the immense amount of work that he put

into the One Wales agreement. He has been the architect of this

country's future and I have to admit she that I was in tears by

the end of the speech today. He has been a brilliant leader for us.

there not a point there that you could say that the last few years

seem to have been a good period for Plaid Cymru but that has not been

reflected in the electoral success. How do you solve that conundrum?

think that is the challenge and Ieuan Wyn Jones was right to remind

us that we need to tell people about our achievements. Because

Plaid has made a difference in government. That is a learning

process to understand that our contribution to Wales has got to be

in Government and the people of Wales note that it is Plaid Cymru

only that can stand up for wells, particularly when we have this dish

has coalition in Westminster -- for Wales. What do you think went wrong

in that election? We have delivered the referendum for Wales and got a

yes vote. Plight, with the party of Wales. We're not looking to feather

our own at best, we are looking forward to a better Wales and that

is what is important. We as members, as a party, look what is best for

Wales, not for ourselves. I would rather have that yes vote than

bring any MPs. And yet Ieuan Wyn Jones was clear that you do not get

that the us but unless you get back into Government. How do you do

that? If you look at football analogies, there is the danger of a

quick counter attack were you need yourself exposed at the back. He

was pointing at that you need a slow build up. You can have a

cyclical ebb and flow in politics by what you need to do is to insure

certain things. The referendum secured something tangible for

Wales and Ieuan Wyn Jones held to love for that. We look back at

these election results any say they are disappointing but the actual

results were very similar to what they were four years ago. The

difference is that the mass happen to go our way this time. In four

years' time, I have no doubt we So, the delegates liked it. What

about the man and self? Ieuan Wyn Jones, a warm welcome. You have

done 20 speeches, when we consider the spring conferences. This one

must have felt very different. was entirely different. I was

trying to think back, but the result was a degree of pressure.

You feel that as a leader because there is an expectation did you

articulate the view of the party, not just to the members in the hall,

but outside. The result was a degree of pressure. This time, I

was more relaxed because it was my last speech and there were many

things there, some messages I wanted to leave. How do you feel

right now? You have delivered it. feel entirely relaxed. It was an

important speech but in a different way. In your leader will need to

articulate some vision as well. I was content with saying, this is

where I think we have reached an this is where a think we should go,

and offering suggestions. And the one-hour free man. As the leader,

you must think, I'd better not say that, better not say this, and when

you were a minister, you cannot say certain things. The pressures on

previous speeches. Enormous. Different pressures. There is a

pressure when things are not going so well and the party and people

are questioning your ability to carry on. Is he the right man to

lead the party, etc? And in those kind of speeches, you have to rise

to the occasion. People like yourself saying it is the most

important speech of his life, and that increases the pressure. I

remember my first speech as a minister, entirely different again.

You knew you were speaking not just as the party leader, but the Deputy

First Minister. There was a certain expectation about things you could

have said. So you enjoyed that one more than previous ones two today,

yes. -- previous ones? Today, yes. Normally I get help in writing

speeches and people offer suggestions, but I wanted to make

this a personal speech, a speech about why I felt Plaid Cymru was

important to Wales. I wrote it on my own. The best is yet to come,

you say. At that point, do you almost feel a tear running down

your cheek? Not really. We're all human beings. It was an emotional

moment. I knew the time was coming to an end, particularly near the

end of the speech, I suppose. I felt I needed to leave the feeling

to the party, that, you know, the party needs to look forward to the

future under a new leader, with the new voice, to voice the aspirations

of the party. Let us look at the substance of the speech. Is it all

about keeping come and carrying on? Keep going, we have ploughed the

furrow, stay in it, or does the party need a new direction? I do

not think it needs a new direction. Devolution meant that the party had

to Act differently. Up until 1997, there was no way the party would

ever be the majority party in any form of legislature in which it was

fighting elections. It could only be a voice of opposition. Now and

again, it could influence but basically it was a voice of

opposition. But you have been a party of government. And the vote

went down. It did not like you in government. -- they did not like

you. I wish politics was that simple. There were a few reasons I

gave today why we did not do as well as we could have done. We did

not claim credit for what we had done. That is down to you. That is

down to me and the people we're talking about, because we had many

meetings talking about our strategy. There was a feeling that people do

not vote on past records, they vote on what you're going to do next.

The danger was that although people knew that we were doing good things,

they did not identify that with us. You suffer with the Little Brother

syndrome. Yes, to a certain extent. Given our time again, we would do

things differently. Your clearly keen for the party to go back into

coalition. At any price, with anybody? Not at any price. We need

to drive a hard bargain. Realistically, the electoral system

in Wales and Scotland, by and large, will not deliver a majority

government. It has only delivered one in either country since

devolution. You have to collude with the parties. So we deal with

the current Labour Party, is that on the cards? As things currently

stand, I do not think that Carwyn Jones will want a coalition. If he

did? The party needs time to reflect. That will be over by the

spring of next year. Then, we will see how things go. It will be

difficult for a minority administration to last five years.

It may be that at some time during the next five years, there will be

an opportunity for a rethink. We should not turn it down. We should

not say on principle but we will never go into coalition. Andorra

two motions try to turn that down on principle here. My view is that

that would be the wrong way to goal. -- and there are two motions of.

will hear from the SNP shortly. You mention them, doing great things in

Scotland. Why are you not giving that? The situation in Scotland is

different. The analogy a destroying was that in order to get things

done for Scotland, they needed an SNP government. You can draw a

distinction between the SNP in Edinburgh, Labour in Cardiff, and

the development of the two countries is different. But there

is a reason for that. We advance questions on Twitter. -- we have

had questions. This one, quite simple, or what are you most proud

of and disappointed of? I am most proud of being in government and

delivering a yes vote in a referendum. As well as delivering

in government. On that point, you took your eye off the ball for the

elections. I also said in a speech that there are occasions where the

party is prepared to put the interests of Wales before the

interests of the party. It could be that we did that in the referendum.

And your disappointment? biggest disappointment is the

result of the election. We felt that we deserved better. But I take

my share of responsibility for it. I would like to leave people with

the idea, do not think that you will have to take radical changes

because of one election. Look at the bigger picture. You will find

that the party is in a stronger place in 2011 and it was when I

joined. On the whole debate, which is taking place loudly on

independence here. Potentially, it will be in the constitution

tomorrow. You did not mention it at all. Were you careful not to?

not think so. You do not like the word, do you? No. The reality is

that the constitutional journey of Wales is different to Scotland. I

remember the last time we had a debate on independence was in 2003

and after what people saw as a difficult election result. There is

the feeling that you need to hang on to certain things. Or be clear

about it. The SNP do that for stomp we have been clear about our

objectives. It is just that Wales is in a different place and needs

to understand that the constitutional path is one of

progress at each step. We have taken a big step in March and has

another one on fiscal autonomy that we need to take. -- there is

another one on fiscal autonomy. you leave the stage, and you're not

going till spring, what next for view? You are not going to leave

politics. I am not. I will still be the Assembly member for my

constituency and I will be working in the Assembly. There is one thing

that is absolutely certain, I do not want to do nothing. I feel that

I have more to offer, perhaps in different ways, and I will be

thinking about that now and over the next six months. A think tank,

maybe? I think we have to fill the vacuum and Wales. If there is one

major disappointment outside the party, it is that we have not

really had a proper debate about policy direction. We are

distinguishing ourselves from what is happening in London but there is

no real policy research behind it. I really think that that is

something that we need to redress. Your family is here, waiting for a

hug. What is the plan for the family tonight? Well, there is a

party dinner tonight, but tomorrow night, we will have the opportunity

to relax informally. Thank you very much. We will have a look at what

the SNP member was saying earlier, Hamsey Yusef. This is what he had

to say. -- Humza Yousaf. Thank you very much for this great honour to

be representing the SNP here at your annual conference. I bring

with me the best wishes of the First Minister of Scotland, Alex

Salmond. The First Minister of the Scottish Parliament's first ever

majority government. APPLAUSE it is a real pleasure to be with you here

in Wales, to join you for your annual conference.

I think you wholeheartedly for the kind invitation. It is such an

honour for me to be in the position as an MS P and P elected

representative. It was just 70 years ago that my great grandfather

and his son were working in their family run tailoring business in

India. They were master tailors who would so during the morning and

afternoon and choose to shut up shop in the evening. Instead of

going back home for their dinner, they would take to the streets in

non-violent protests and fight for the independence of India and

Pakistan from British rule. They gained their reward of full

independence in 1947. Little could be imagined that nearly seven

decades later, their great grandson would be continuing on this proud

family condition of fighting for independence in a country called

Scotland, a country that in truth they had probably never heard of. I

tell you that story not to bore you into submission, but to get across

to you a sense of the central message, the reason that our

visions for our respective countries is the right one is

because we believe that an independent Scotland and Wales can

be prosperous. We know that Wales is awash with opportunities and

with potential. Her greatest asset is her people and always has been.

That is why independent self determination, more autonomy is so

important. The prize is so great. Not as an end within itself, but

the tools it gives us in order to shape a better future for our

country men, women and children. As nationalists, we value our

relationship with Plaid Cymru. We share in each other's successes but

we show solidarity through the tough times. In the parliamentary

elections in two dozen did three, the SNP lost a number of seats in

the Scottish Parliament. We had gone backwards. The death knell was

ringing for the nationalist cause. Column inch after column inch had

just written off as a political force. John Swinney, are then

leader, announced he was stepping down, and we were apparently on the

brink of a civil war, the final nail in the coffin for independence.

Or so we were told. I'm sure you recognise the headlines well. Take

heart from our journey from then on. The loss of seats did not mean a

loss of determination of conviction. Far from it. Instead, it gave us a

renewed sense of purpose. The effect was galvanising. We needed

to refocus and renew our vision and I know that is a central theme of

this conference. The effect of that was to reinvigorate our party

members and supporters. You will have a difficult task, but you are

starting a process now. Award -- the rewards can be handsome, but

only if you choose to be bold and radical. That is exactly what the

SNP has done. Our structures were old, cantankerous. The period of

introspection and reflection was welcome. The internal change was

very much needed. The result was that in the next election, four

years on, we had the first nationalist government in the

history of the country. Few would have predicted an SNP government

within the first 10 years of the re-establishment of the parliament.

Fewer would have predicted, including many of our own party,

the majority government that we now have. Despite the electoral system,

designed to prevent single party majorities, and Lord Robertson

preparing -- declaring that abolition would kill nationalism,

despite the combined efforts of the Unionist parties and despite a

hostile press, the SNP won in spectacular fashion. Plight Cymru

did not achieve the success we had hoped for in may have been -- in

May. -- Plaid Cymru. We must take the rough with the smooth. It must

be viewed not as a challenge, but as an opportunity. With strength of

conviction and a renewed sense of purpose, he will fight future

elections and you will become a force, the dominant vision for the

people of Wales once again. Of course, this is the challenge ahead.

Defining what that vision is for the people of Wales. During the

recent Holyrood elections, or message was quite simple. We

repeated our mantra over and over and over again. Until I never

wanted to hear the words record, team and vision ever again. However,

I think he will no doubt build a formidable record in opposition,

old and the Welsh government to account, not pausing for the sake

of all posing, but as you have always done, in the interests of

the Welsh people, you are in the process of building a team. I have

no doubt that fresh blood will galvanise the party. However, the

most important component, in my We often think people know what it

is we refer to. In truth, we have not articulated the vision fully

enough. How many people here know what it is that we mean by

independence or more autonomy. Gone are the days when Scottish and

Welsh independence movements can be dismissed. Nothing could be further

from the truth, apart from one or two party members, I am sure! And I

like my shortbread and by daffodils! Our movements are about

empowering people. And a brand of civic nationalism is the most

inclusive Liberal movement in the world, I firmly believe that. Just

one example is, perhaps, myself standing here today in the field of

community cohesion. I always say to people, when I have been doing

speeches on community cohesion, all you have to do is look at

Scotland's cuisine. Our two favourite dishes are chicken tikka

and spaghetti bothered pays! Since I have just been fasting for

Ramadan, I hope she will allow me to expand on what metaphor. You

will spot on the menu in Scotland this gourmet menu of chips and

curry sauce. They terrific advertisement for cultural

diversity! This must be the essence of our vision to the people, not

takeaways, but a positive, clear vision of what we mean by

independents and what we mean by greater powers. We seek

independence to create jobs, to protect education, to give

opportunity to the most vulnerable in our society. Perhaps Alex Salmon

put it best when he said about the independence question that it is

not an arcane question removed from the people, it is the people, it is

how will we protect our society and grow our economy. No nation should

send it young men and women into an illegal war that we collectively

disagree with, nor should we play host to weapons of mass destruction

as we do in power hosting of Trident. There is nothing negative,

conference, nothing narrow-minded. I have noticed recently that it is

the unionist parties that now resort to flag-waving tactics.

Protect our fish and chips is the cry, Protect Our custard creams.

However, the old adage of stronger together and weaker apart is given

us reasons to maintain the Union. But these are poor reasons. The

union constraints a respective nations. We do not have control

over the economic mechanisms that a last to have dynamic and

competitive economies. The legacy of successive Westminster

governments is deep-rooted poverty and disenfranchised communities. It

is time for all of that to change. There was a real buzz in the air

when the SNP won in 2007. Across Scotland, people were excited by

the freshness of a new government and a new agenda. Since then, it's

got and has grown as a nation and has gained greater confidence than

it has had in a long time. It is that, because that cause more

Scott's than ever before to vote for the SNP in May. -- more

Scottish people. Not every person is ready to vote for independence

but they're certainly ready to listen and take part in the debate.

Scotland has never had the opportunity to have a proper debate

about independence but now we're ready for it and we, in the SNP,

I'm really ready for it. It is an object to that few nations get from

one that I feel personally privileged to have an opportunity

to participate in. I look forward to an independence, and that leaves

-- leads the world not because of the size of its military, put the

cars we are at the forefront of human rights and social justice --

but because. By recognise the extent of the challenge that lies

before us. Scotland has a bright future and so does Wales and we

will realise that bright future by taking control of our own destinies.

Our independence movements are not about separation but about

fulfilling Our potential. It is easy to be downtrodden by the

relentless and par for voices of the unionists, but it is not for

them to determine the future of any nation in the union. It is for the

people of Scotland, for the people of Wales and for the people of

England to decide for themselves. The SNP has spread its -- expend

its fair share of time in the electoral doldrums. That can be

turned around more quickly than you might think. But your heart be bold

and radical and seize the opportunity put in front of you. --

it you have to be bowled. You have to change the internal structures

where the party has perhaps been... Retain your vision, rebuild your

movement. It will not be long until you off firmly on your way to a

more prosperous, dynamic and ultimately independent Wales. Thank

Humza Yousaf, from the SNP, addressing the Congress earlier.

Several members of tipping him as a future leader. Let us go back to do

leader's speech. Ieuan Wyn Jones was with us earlier and I am joined

by the leader of the party and the director of policy. He was a man

liberated, wasn't he? Yes, he was and I think the speech was a very

difficult one to make, and he pulled it off because he was able

to give us a snapshot of where we are in the party and we all felt

uplifted. We are in a decent position as a party. We are at a

situation where it seems to me that is similar to where the

Conservatives were in London three or four years ago. I thought it was

a very good speech. I have always been of great fan of Ieuan Wyn

Jones but he has done hard work for Plaid Cymru and for Wales and we

should respect him for that. said that the party should not

refuse the opportunity to lead Wales. Many in this conference

would doubt that, because they do not want go back into coalition

with Labour and certainly do not want go into coalition with the

Conservatives. Isn't power crucial to any party? We are all in

politics because we think we have the best politics to move our

nation forward. We should be using opportunities that present

themselves to implement those policies as we have done in the One

Wales government and Ieuan Wyn Jones quite Reece -- rightly listed

the achievements. We have a lot to be grateful for, we have a lot that

we achieved. But how much of that has been communicated to the people